On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:02:10 -0700, Alan wrote:

> On 2022-04-15 11:17 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>
>>>> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
>>>> headset.
>>>
>>> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a
>>> digital headphone jack and included wired headsets in the box that
>>> plugged directly into the phone, *without* any adapters or dongles.
>>
>> You proved my point for me.
>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they
>> removed.
>
> Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.

replaces a universal interface with a proprietary one that can only be
sourced from Apple of an Apple licensed supplier.

--
How do you power off this machine?
-- Linus, when upgrading linux.cs.helsinki.fi, and after using the
machine
for several months

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:35:40 -0400, nospam wrote:

> In article <t3cffi$nda$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with
>> another.
>
> yep, and one that has more functionality and better reliability than
> what it replaced.
>
> sales went *up*, which means nobody cared, other than a tiny, yet very
> vocal minority of apple haters who have nothing better to do than bash.
>
> and why is this crossposted to raspberry pi anyway? it has absolutely
> nothing to do with raspberry pi, but since it is, the raspberry pi zero
> doesn't have an analog headphone jack, nor does it come with a power
> adapter either. think about that, a computer that doesn't come with a
> power adapter.

How is it improved?
Audio is still supplied to the ear by tiny speakers receiving an analog
voltage.
all that has happened is the audio decode & amplification circuits have
been removed from the phone & moved to the headphone cable.
quality is dependent on the quality of those circuits & simply removes it
form Apples concerns

--
Death is only a state of mind.

Only it doesn't leave you much time to think about anything else.

nospam wrote:

>>> > Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
>>> > headset.
>>>
>>> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a digital
>>
>> Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
>> analogue headphones/headsets.
>
> because digital headphones offer more features and better reliability.

Apple removed the basic functionality so that you have to buy it back.

Each time Apple removes industry standard functionality, their (admittedly
stellar) Marketing team comes up with an excuse for only half the story.

The story they told?
It's "courageous" (if you can believe that).

I'm not making that up.
Apple says they removed basic functionality so that you have to buy it back
in a "courageous" decision that their marketing team told them to try out.

And it worked.
Apple makes BILLIONS off that one simple removal of standard functionality.

nospam wrote:

>> Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.
>
> yep, and one that has more functionality and better reliability than
> what it replaced.

While I don't blame Apple for their profit motive in removing basic standard
functionality over time from the iPhone so that they can make billions of
dollars in increased revenue from people having to buy it back...

I do blame the average iOS user for falling for the oldest marketing trick
in the book.

Lost functionality is what it is.
Oh, and it's "courageous" too.

> sales went *up*, which means nobody cared, other than a tiny, yet very
> vocal minority of apple haters who have nothing better to do than bash.

I may own more Apple iOS devices than you do nospam, where the difference is
that I know that almost all Android phones come with this standard hardware.

Why, if it's ubiquitous on Android is it not needed on the iPhone?
> and why is this crossposted to raspberry pi anyway? it has absolutely
> nothing to do with raspberry pi, but since it is, the raspberry pi zero
> doesn't have an analog headphone jack, nor does it come with a power
> adapter either. think about that, a computer that doesn't come with a
> power adapter.

Then change the fup.

alister wrote:

> Removal of the PSU is clearly a cost saving exercise (for apple as they do
> not appear to pass it on to the consumer) & as Apple use proprietary
> charging skts forces users who don't already have one to spend additional
> cash

Apple admittedly has perhaps the finest marketing team on this planet.
Each time Apple removes basic functionality - we get a _different_ excuse.
a. Lack of sdslot - use the iCloud!
b. Loss of 3.5mm jack - it's "courageous"
c. Loss of charging brick - it's "for the kids"
etc.

Yet - all end up causing you to buy the missing functionality back!
*It causes a buying decision that never needed to be made before*

There is a recent thread on the Apple newsgroup showing factual reports that
Apple made tens of _billions_ of dollars (in a variety of ways) by removing
the basic functionality that we speak of here.
*Time to charge YOUR phone from dead to full is what?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/D5mvSwHd4jM>

The estimate for 190 million devices is Apple saved in costs alone 6.5
billion dollars and then Apple made tens of billions more in increased
sales.
*Steve (sms) posted the cite to the report in this message*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/D5mvSwHd4jM/m/5dBK6AFyFgAJ>

Bear in mind the correct charger _nobody_ has who bought any iPhone since
the correct 20 Watt charger _never_ came in any iPhone box in Apple's entire
history of selling billions of iPhones.

Note: Apple never tells you this. Apple "claims" you already have a charger,
but that's like telling you that you already have old used incandescent
bulbs that you can bring over to your new house which is designed for LEDs
which are what you want when you pay for a phone with 20W fast charging.

On 2022-04-15 1:07 p.m., alister wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:05:53 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-15 11:56 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> nospam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they
>>>>> removed.
>>>>
>>>> there's nothing to buy back and apple *added* functionality not
>>>> previously present.
>>>
>>> a. Apple's strategy is to slowly remove basic functionality - one at a
>>> time.
>>> b. Each year Apple gives a _different_ excuse for the loss of
>>> functionality.
>>> c. Yet, it's always so that you must _buy_ the missing functionality
>>> back.
>>>
>>> Besides... 1. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _never_ had
>>> the   in-device _portable_ storage capacity that almost all other
>>> phones have?
>>>
>>> 2. How did Apple "add" functionality when Apple _removed_ the industry
>>> standard 3.5mm jack which never negated bluetooth if people wanted it?
>>
>> It's not an industry standard.
>>
>> GSMArena shows 2519 phones currently available or coming soon.
>>
>> Only 1994 have a 3.5mm audio jack.
>>
> so the vast majority, it is also the standard format for headphones on
> almost all legacy audio devices. if not an actual official standard then
> at lease a defacto one.

Which is changing. There are better solutions now.

The 3.5" floppy disk was a "defacto standard" too.

Should we still have those?

>>
>>> 3. How did Apple "add" functionality by subsequently removing the
>>> headphones
>>>   from the box which they needed to add when they removed the 3.5mm
>>>   jack?
>>
>> Not including an accessory is NOT "remov[ing] basic functionality".
>>
> but it is removing functionality that previous models had - the point that
> was being made but you deliberately chose to distort it to support your
> need to be contrary to the majority opinion

No, it's not. The functionality is:

"Plug headphones/earbuds"

And that functionality is still included.

>>
>>> 4. How did Apple "add" functionality when they then removed the
>>> charging
>>>   brick from the box so now people have to shop for a proper fast
>>>   charger?
>>
>> Same rebuttal.
>>
> A charger is an accessory? only by the most pedantic of definitions as the
> device cannot operate without a means of charging.

When the entire world already owns multiple chargers? Yes.

> Removal of the PSU is clearly a cost saving exercise (for apple as they do
> not appear to pass it on to the consumer) & as Apple use proprietary
> charging skts forces users who don't already have one to spend additional
> cash

Really? And you know for a fact that the price of the phones wouldn't
have been higher if they'd kept the charger as included?

>>
>
>>> 5. How did Apple "add" functionality when they _crippled_ webkit so
>>> that it
>>>   can't possibly have the privacy functionality of the Tor Browser?
>>
>> Choosing not to do something is not removing functionality.
>>
>
>>
>>> The list can go on forever given the reason the iPhone is crippled in
>>> app functionality isn't the lack of hardware so much as the lack of the
>>> ability of developers to meet demand because Apple _refuses_ to allow
>>> them in the App Store.
>>>
>>> Apple cripples iOS by preventing app functionality.
>>> There's a ton of useful app functionality on Android that isn't on iOS.
>
> I see that you are trying to make this news group as unbearable as others
> you frequent with your deliberate attempts to provoke & continue
> controversy to absurdity.

I see you're addressing comments I didn't make.

On 2022-04-15 1:08 p.m., alister wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:02:10 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-15 11:17 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> nospam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
>>>>> headset.
>>>>
>>>> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a
>>>> digital headphone jack and included wired headsets in the box that
>>>> plugged directly into the phone, *without* any adapters or dongles.
>>>
>>> You proved my point for me.
>>> Apple pulls these marketing tricks to make you buy back what they
>>> removed.
>>
>> Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.
>
> replaces a universal interface with a proprietary one that can only be
> sourced from Apple of an Apple licensed supplier.

Bluetooth is proprietary?

And if Lightning is proprietary (it is)...

<https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=lightning+earbuds&i=electronics&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu14KA58YAQKEFPWWEn9ePoeZoYKnwqIC28B2rkkd9BVYXax-wWBqRrsaAtKnEALw_wcB&hvadid=325139092790&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001554&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4738164876812016585&hvtargid=kwd-300328979423&hydadcr=4871_9337108&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_2wfxroaaea_e>

....it doesn't appear to be an impediment.

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:35:39 -0400
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <20220415194844.24fd718cf5bf6c65c3a3b8cf@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
> > > > headset.
> > >
> > > they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a
> > > digital
> >
> > Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
> > analogue headphones/headsets.
>
> because digital headphones offer more features and better reliability.

That is of little interest to the owner of a set of expensive and carefully
chosen headphones which are usable with just about everything except a
recent Apple phone - especially if they find Apple's offering uncomfortable.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-04-15 1:36 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> alister wrote:
>
>> Removal of the PSU is clearly a cost saving exercise (for apple as
>> they do not appear to pass it on to the consumer) & as Apple use
>> proprietary charging skts forces users who don't already have one to
>> spend additional cash
>
> Apple admittedly has perhaps the finest marketing team on this planet.
> Each time Apple removes basic functionality - we get a _different_ excuse.
> a. Lack of sdslot - use the iCloud!

iPhones never had an extra storage slot of any kind...

....so it is factually incorrect to claim that they "removed" that
functionality.

> b. Loss of 3.5mm jack - it's "courageous"
> c. Loss of charging brick - it's "for the kids"
>   etc.
>
> Yet - all end up causing you to buy the missing functionality back!
> *It causes a buying decision that never needed to be made before*
>
> There is a recent thread on the Apple newsgroup showing factual reports
> that
> Apple made tens of _billions_ of dollars (in a variety of ways) by removing
> the basic functionality that we speak of here.
> *Time to charge YOUR phone from dead to full is what?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/D5mvSwHd4jM>
>
> The estimate for 190 million devices is Apple saved in costs alone 6.5
> billion dollars and then Apple made tens of billions more in increased
> sales.
> *Steve (sms) posted the cite to the report in this message*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/D5mvSwHd4jM/m/5dBK6AFyFgAJ>
>
>
> Bear in mind the correct charger _nobody_ has who bought any iPhone since
> the correct 20 Watt charger _never_ came in any iPhone box in Apple's
> entire
> history of selling billions of iPhones.

That's not even English.

>
> Note: Apple never tells you this. Apple "claims" you already have a
> charger,

Almost everyone does.

> but that's like telling you that you already have old used incandescent
> bulbs that you can bring over to your new house which is designed for LEDs
> which are what you want when you pay for a phone with 20W fast charging.

You want LED lighting for your phone?

On 2022-04-15 1:58 p.m., Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:35:39 -0400
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <20220415194844.24fd718cf5bf6c65c3a3b8cf@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Apple removed the basic industry standard functionality of a wired
>>>>> headset.
>>>>
>>>> they didn't remove any functionality. they simply switched to a
>>>> digital
>>>
>>> Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
>>> analogue headphones/headsets.
>>
>> because digital headphones offer more features and better reliability.
>
> That is of little interest to the owner of a set of expensive and carefully
> chosen headphones which are usable with just about everything except a
> recent Apple phone - especially if they find Apple's offering uncomfortable.
>

Except if you get yourself the $10 adapter...

<yawn>

On 4/15/2022 1:10 PM, alister wrote:

<snip>

> How is it improved?
> Audio is still supplied to the ear by tiny speakers receiving an analog
> voltage.
> all that has happened is the audio decode & amplification circuits have
> been removed from the phone & moved to the headphone cable.

Actually the A/D, D/A, and amplifier are still in the phone as well
because they're still needed for the phone's speakers and microphones.
They are simply duplicated in the Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter
(or in the very few Lightning ear pods).

The removal of the headphone jack was done for multiple reasons. First
it reduced manufacturing cost (at least after they stopped including the
Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter). Second, it eliminated a point of
failure since the headphone jack was one of the biggest points of
failure that was covered by the warranty or Apple Care. Third, it
encouraged MFi devices with royalties to Apple (since the 3.5mm
headphone jack had no royalties). Fourth, it made it easier to achieve
IP68. Fifth, and most important, it encouraged the sale of AirPods.

Some people don't realize that the 3.5mm headphone jack was used for a
lot more than just headphones. See #3a on page 14 of the document
<https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>.

A lot of the peripherals that duplicate the lost functionality that used
the headphone jack have become much more expensive and much less
convenient, though some are better off using Android OTG.

“Apple has now removed the only open standard port available, forcing
companies to use their proprietary and royalty based Lightning connector.”

“It [the headphone jack] also sports a surprisingly robust three-channel
communication interface: One channel in (for the microphone) and two
channels out (for the left and right stereo channel). What not a lot of
people realize is that the headphone socket also supplies a tiny amount
of power.”

In article <20220415215856.c3afe8db7686c010160e9f5a@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> > > Yes they did - specifically they removed the ability to use
> > > analogue headphones/headsets.
> >
> > because digital headphones offer more features and better reliability.
>
> That is of little interest to the owner of a set of expensive and carefully
> chosen headphones which are usable with just about everything except a
> recent Apple phone - especially if they find Apple's offering uncomfortable.

such people are a tiny minority and don't normally use those headphones
with a smartphone of any kind because the sound quality from a phone of
any kind does not do justice to it.

but if they do want to use expensive and carefully chosen headphones,
they can choose their own d/a converter to justify their purchase,
whether it's a cheap $5-10 adapter from apple or a very fancy (and
overpriced) one from an audiophile manufacturer.

also note that those very same people would be in the very same
predicament with many android phones, including the google pixel series
and the latest samsung phones.

and since this is cross-posted to raspberry pi, they'd also have the
same issue with a pi zero.

In article <t3cjgh$1s9$3@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
<alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> all that has happened is the audio decode & amplification circuits have
> been removed from the phone & moved to the headphone cable.
> quality is dependent on the quality of those circuits & simply removes it
> form Apples concerns

or google, samsung, oneplus, etc., who also do not have an analog
headphone jack anymore.

that means that headphone makers can use their own d/a converter as
well as add additional functionality that is otherwise not possible,
including spatial audio, health sensors, noise cancellation that uses
the phone's noise cancellation functionality (which means no additional
cost or increase in size), as well as being significantly more
reliable.

users can also buy their own external d/a converter instead of being
limited to what the device maker decided to use.

In article <t3cjcj$1s9$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
<alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> > Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with another.
>
> replaces a universal interface with a proprietary one that can only be
> sourced from Apple of an Apple licensed supplier.

usb-c is also licensed, for the many android devices that do not have
an analog headphone jack anymore.

In article <t3co6o$nnv$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Actually the A/D, D/A, and amplifier are still in the phone as well
> because they're still needed for the phone's speakers and microphones.
> They are simply duplicated in the Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter
> (or in the very few Lightning ear pods).

lightning earpods are extremely common, having been included with
iphones for several years.

> The removal of the headphone jack was done for multiple reasons. First
> it reduced manufacturing cost (at least after they stopped including the
> Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter).

the cost savings is almost zero.

> Second, it eliminated a point of
> failure since the headphone jack was one of the biggest points of
> failure that was covered by the warranty or Apple Care.

that is correct. the analog headphone jack was a common point of
failure. lightning and usb-c headphones are *significantly* more
reliable.

> Third, it
> encouraged MFi devices with royalties to Apple (since the 3.5mm
> headphone jack had no royalties).

that is completely false. it has absolutely no effect on mfi devices.

> Fourth, it made it easier to achieve
> IP68.

true.

> Fifth, and most important, it encouraged the sale of AirPods.

nope. it did not. it had little to no effect on airpods, which weren't
even available when the change was made.

apple *included* headphones and an adapter, which means *nothing* extra
needed to be purchased.

as it turned out, almost nobody used the adapter so apple stopped
including it.

> Some people don't realize that the 3.5mm headphone jack was used for a
> lot more than just headphones.

what you don't realize is that lightning (and usb-c for android) is
capable of *much* more than what is possible with an analog headphone
jack.

> A lot of the peripherals that duplicate the lost functionality that used
> the headphone jack have become much more expensive and much less
> convenient, though some are better off using Android OTG.

that is false.
>
> ³Apple has now removed the only open standard port available, forcing
> companies to use their proprietary and royalty based Lightning connector.²

or usb-c connector on android.

> ³It [the headphone jack] also sports a surprisingly robust three-channel
> communication interface:

so robust that by your own admission above, it's one of the most common
failure modes.

> One channel in (for the microphone) and two
> channels out (for the left and right stereo channel). What not a lot of
> people realize is that the headphone socket also supplies a tiny amount
> of power.²

extremely tiny, barely enough to power an led.

meanwhile, lightning and usb-c can source a significantly higher amount
of power.

you're making a case for its removal.

On 15.04.2022 22:55, nospam wrote:

> apple *included* headphones and an adapter, which means *nothing* extra
> needed to be purchased.

Are you sure Apple includes "headphones and an adapter" in the iPhone 13?

On 2022-04-15 3:17 p.m., wolfgang kern wrote:
> On 15.04.2022 22:55, nospam wrote:
>
>> apple *included* headphones and an adapter, which means *nothing* extra
>> needed to be purchased.
>
> Are you sure Apple includes "headphones and an adapter" in the iPhone 13?

Are you familiar with what "past tense" means?

nospam wrote:

> or google, samsung, oneplus, etc., who also do not have an analog
> headphone jack anymore.

You always blame everyone but Apple for _forcing_ Apple, wholly against
their free will, to remove basic functionality from the iPhone nospam.

Your repeated claim Apple has no marketing of their own is preposterous.

> that means that headphone makers can use their own d/a converter as
> well as add additional functionality that is otherwise not possible,
> including spatial audio, health sensors, noise cancellation that uses
> the phone's noise cancellation functionality (which means no additional
> cost or increase in size), as well as being significantly more
> reliable.

When you buy a new car for yourself, Apple's (stellar) marketing tells you
to trade back and forth, every single night, the old inefficient
incandescent bulbs from your wife's older car to your brand new shiny new
car (which was designed for LEDs).

While you're using the old incandescent bulbs, her car doesn't work
(because Apple wants you to _share_ the old technology between two cars!)

Apple's excuse for that iPhone 12 & iPhone 13 money-making clusterfuck?
*"It's green!"*
*THINK OF THE KIDS!!!!!!!*
> users can also buy their own external d/a converter instead of being
> limited to what the device maker decided to use.

Apple's strategy is to remove basic functionality from the iPhone so that
you have to buy it back.

Each time Apple's (admittedly stellar) marketing comes up with a new excuse.
a. It's courageous
b. It's for the kids
c. It's due to Apple-only iPhone-only iOS-specific battery chemistry
etc.

On 2022-04-15 3:26 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> or google, samsung, oneplus, etc., who also do not have an analog
>> headphone jack anymore.
>
> You always blame everyone but Apple for _forcing_ Apple, wholly against
> their free will, to remove basic functionality from the iPhone nospam.

You always tell this lie.

nospam wrote:

> also note that those very same people would be in the very same
> predicament with many android phones, including the google pixel series
> and the latest samsung phones.

Change that preposterous "many" to a more realistic "select few" and even
so, *why do you always proclaim that Apple marketing is driven by Google?*

Apple likely spends more than any other tech company in marketing nospam,
and yet, you always claim Apple can only _follow_ what other companies do?

Does Apple have absolutely no free will as you always repeatedly claim?
--
*Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than anyone in high tech?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/STrAkx09VYk/m/4Qr_Iuq5AwAJ>

On 2022-04-15 3:53 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> also note that those very same people would be in the very same
>> predicament with many android phones, including the google pixel series
>> and the latest samsung phones.
>
> Change that preposterous "many" to a more realistic "select few" and even
> so, *why do you always proclaim that Apple marketing is driven by Google?*

He doesn't.

He's pointing out that this is a movement of more than just one company.

>
> Apple likely spends more than any other tech company in marketing
> nospam, and yet, you always claim Apple can only _follow_ what other
> companies do?

Got proof of Apple's spending?

Thought not.

On 2022-04-15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> That is of little interest to the owner of a set of expensive and carefully
> chosen headphones which are usable with just about everything except a
> recent Apple phone - especially if they find Apple's offering uncomfortable.

As someone who carefully chose their headphones, it should be obvious
to you (or I hope you'll do some research and figure it out) that
3.5mm TRS connectors and cables are terrible, a real worse-is-better
standard. The lines aren't balanced like XLR connectors, so the wire
is extremely noise sensitive. Many 3.5mm cables aren't shielded well
either. Put a smartphone next to a 3.5mm cable, even those that come
with audiophile headphones, and you'll probably hear harmonics from
your phone modem. The TRS wiring itself depends on the contacts on the
plug-connector which wear away a lot quicker than pretty much any
other connector. As an analog connector you can create capacitance at
the TRS connection itself which leads to odd frequency responses. XLR
and mini-XLR cables are much better cables than the crappy TRS
"standard" and used by audio professionals. They have firm
connections, balanced lines, and insulation between the lines that TRS
connectors do not have.

The advice to put a good DAC before the headphones
serves to keep the signal high-fidelity for as long as possible. It
encourages to short 3.5mm cable runs so that there's fewer
opportunities for noise, interference, or signal attenuation due to
weird capacitance issues. Really the advice to use a DAC is putting
lipstick on the TRS pig. A good solution is to either keep the signal
digital as long as possible and only translate it into analog at the
drivers or to use a purpose-built cable to carry analog signals like
XLRs.

TRS has very few advantages. One of them is that they're dirt cheap to
make. They only require thin gauge wire in their connectors. They're
easy to replace. It's relatively easy to understand what's happening
by placing probes on the contacts and seeing a waveform. They're even
simpler to modulate signals onto than a serial cable. TRS is a
worse-is-better standard. It's the bare-minimum needed to run analog
signals on a wire, any wire, without offering bare wiring or aligator
clips. From a fidelity, BOM cost, or footprint perspective using a
digital connector is far superior. You can even run long cabling to
speakers and not have the severe loss issues that come with a pure
analog connector at the low voltages being output on most audio
lines.

Getting angry at Apple over this is silly (as others have noted that
many Android phones have these features as well.) Apple has always
placed itself at the upper end of the market. If any company is
willing to throw away the trash known as the TRS connector for
quality, then it will be Apple. It is unfortunate that folks who have
headphones and headsets that connect via 3.5mm TRS cannot directly
connect anymore but they can buy a simple adapter and get the same
functionality. In the meantime the folks who are actually interested
in Hi-Fi audio can use better connectors than wires soldered into a
ring.

In article <t3cqt6$1p20$1@gioia.aioe.org>, wolfgang kern
<nowhere@nospicedham.never.at> wrote:

>
> > apple *included* headphones and an adapter, which means *nothing* extra
> > needed to be purchased.
>
> Are you sure Apple includes "headphones and an adapter" in the iPhone 13?

note the tense.

apple included lightning headphones with the iphone 7, 7 plus, 8, 8
plus, x, xs, xs max, xr, 11 and 11 pro. they stopped including them
with the 12 because most people already had a set or never used them in
the first place.

apple included headphone adapters with the iphone 7, 7 plus, 8, 8 plus
and x, they stopped including adapters because people didn't use them.
instead, they either used the headphones included the box or not at
all.

sales continued to increase, which means it wasn't an issue whatsoever,
despite people who have nothing better to do than whine about it.

and as a bit of history, the first smartphone maker to not have an
analog headphone jack was *not* apple.

that title goes to the first *android* phone, way back in 2008, which
used a non-standard proprietary ext-usb port and didn't include an
adapter.

<https://www.engadget.com/2008-09-23-confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack.html>
...Like many recent HTCs (Touch HD notably excepted), the G1 eschews
a standard 3.5mm headphone jack for its proprietary ExtUSB connector,
meaning you'll need custom headphones or an adapter to plug in your
own. What's worse, the adapter won't be available immediately at
launch, just a bundled headset. Why, HTC? Why?

going back even further, feature phones had a 2.5mm jack or a
proprietary dock port, both of which needed an adapter to use standard
3.5mm headphones.

In article <4io6K.213407$OT%7.119805@fx07.iad>, meff
<email@example.com> wrote:

> > That is of little interest to the owner of a set of expensive and carefully
> > chosen headphones which are usable with just about everything except a
> > recent Apple phone - especially if they find Apple's offering uncomfortable.
>
> As someone who carefully chose their headphones, it should be obvious
> to you (or I hope you'll do some research and figure it out) that
> 3.5mm TRS connectors and cables are terrible, a real worse-is-better
> standard. The lines aren't balanced like XLR connectors, so the wire
> is extremely noise sensitive. Many 3.5mm cables aren't shielded well
> either. Put a smartphone next to a 3.5mm cable, even those that come
> with audiophile headphones, and you'll probably hear harmonics from
> your phone modem. The TRS wiring itself depends on the contacts on the
> plug-connector which wear away a lot quicker than pretty much any
> other connector. As an analog connector you can create capacitance at
> the TRS connection itself which leads to odd frequency responses. XLR
> and mini-XLR cables are much better cables than the crappy TRS
> "standard" and used by audio professionals. They have firm
> connections, balanced lines, and insulation between the lines that TRS
> connectors do not have.
>
> The advice to put a good DAC before the headphones
> serves to keep the signal high-fidelity for as long as possible. It
> encourages to short 3.5mm cable runs so that there's fewer
> opportunities for noise, interference, or signal attenuation due to
> weird capacitance issues. Really the advice to use a DAC is putting
> lipstick on the TRS pig. A good solution is to either keep the signal
> digital as long as possible and only translate it into analog at the
> drivers or to use a purpose-built cable to carry analog signals like
> XLRs.
>
> TRS has very few advantages. One of them is that they're dirt cheap to
> make. They only require thin gauge wire in their connectors. They're
> easy to replace. It's relatively easy to understand what's happening
> by placing probes on the contacts and seeing a waveform. They're even
> simpler to modulate signals onto than a serial cable. TRS is a
> worse-is-better standard. It's the bare-minimum needed to run analog
> signals on a wire, any wire, without offering bare wiring or aligator
> clips. From a fidelity, BOM cost, or footprint perspective using a
> digital connector is far superior. You can even run long cabling to
> speakers and not have the severe loss issues that come with a pure
> analog connector at the low voltages being output on most audio
> lines.

well said and all very much correct.

> Getting angry at Apple over this is silly (as others have noted that
> many Android phones have these features as well.) Apple has always
> placed itself at the upper end of the market. If any company is
> willing to throw away the trash known as the TRS connector for
> quality, then it will be Apple.

as it turns out, apple wasn't first smartphone maker to do so. that
title goes to the first android phone, the t-mobile g1 in 2008:

<https://www.engadget.com/2008-09-23-confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack.html>
...Like many recent HTCs (Touch HD notably excepted), the G1 eschews
a standard 3.5mm headphone jack for its proprietary ExtUSB connector,
meaning you'll need custom headphones or an adapter to plug in your
own. What's worse, the adapter won't be available immediately at
launch, just a bundled headset. Why, HTC? Why?

going back even further, feature phones either had a smaller 2.5mm jack
or a proprietary dock port, both of which required an adapter to use
standard headphones.

> It is unfortunate that folks who have
> headphones and headsets that connect via 3.5mm TRS cannot directly
> connect anymore but they can buy a simple adapter and get the same
> functionality.

they also represent a very, very small niche.

> In the meantime the folks who are actually interested
> in Hi-Fi audio can use better connectors than wires soldered into a
> ring.

yep, and they're not likely to be using a smartphone as a source
anyway, making it entirely a non-issue.

meff wrote:

> Getting angry at Apple over this is silly (as others have noted that
> many Android phones have these features as well.)

Apologies (in advance) for being allergic to bullshit... :)
Please stop the bullshitting in defense of Apple's marketing strategies.

If you wish to be credible, then you need to get your facts correct.
Please say "select few" and not "many" since that's the facts.

Most people who don't know what they're talking about think it's a trend.
It's not.

You don't know the first thing about jacks if you say it's "most" phones.
You just don't.

It's a trend only for Apple products where it's obviously part of Apple's
strategy to remove functionality so that you're forced to buy it back.

The first time we covered this in detail, it was fewer than 1/2 of 1%.
No logical person would claim that half of one percent is "many" would they?

Obviously how you collect the statistics matters as that one half of one
percent was of all phones, so of course it matters _how_ you collect data.

But it's never "many" and always "a select few" if you want to be believed.
Let's run a search of the past five years worth of all phones, shall we?

FACT #1:
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2>
Of the phones released in the past five years, 1,710 have the standard jack.

FACT #2:
That's out of 2,202 phones released in the past five years (both types).
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&sAvailabilities=1,2>

Wouldn't you say 78% of current phones (including many iPhones) having the
industry standard jack are the "most" while a fifth that don't are the few?