On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:25:12 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

> This is an OEM of the 3330 mechanism, using 3336 packs. It's the ICL
> EDS100 and EDS200.

(etc.)

My apologies for drifting so far off topic. I thought I was in
alt.folklore.computers !

(however, this system was replaced by a VAXcluster, if that helps...)

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

понедельник, 11 апреля 2022 г. в 17:24:49 UTC+3, Single Stage to Orbit:
> Hi
>
> I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
> I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>
> HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
> Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>
> Many thanks,
> Alex
> --
> Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Take a look to on rutracker ... Do u has not banned on it ? :-)
A number of PAK for bigots still alive .

понедельник, 11 апреля 2022 г. в 21:23:20 UTC+3, Dave Froble:
> On 4/11/2022 10:24 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
> > I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
> >
> > HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
> > Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Alex
> >
> There is no formal option.
>
> Some say there is no legal option.
>
> You can:
>
> Hack the LMF
> Find a perpetual license
> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>
> Probably more ...
>
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Don't forget VMS Liberation Front Commandante! LOL

Dave Froble wrote:
> Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
>> I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>>
>> HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
>> Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Alex
>
> There is no formal option.
> Some say there is no legal option.
> You can:
>
> Hack the LMF
> Find a perpetual license
> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>
> Probably more ...
> --
> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
> 170 Grimplin Road
> Vanderbilt, PA 15486

My most recent hobbyist pak has /TERMINATION_DATE=28-MAY-2015 -
But it still works if you set date within that year.
So as long as you're not too concerned about the date,
I think your old pak should still work.

(P.S. to Dave -- you still in the ultralight business???
Way back in the late 1970's - early 1980's I flew a
Seahawk 170 (taught by Bob Doornick), but never got beyond
ushga novice and a bit of ridge flying off Ellenville.
All that's left is my Seagull-labelled harness as a souvenir.)
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

On 8/24/2022 12:14 AM, John Forkosh wrote:
> Dave Froble wrote:
>> Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
>>> I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>>>
>>> HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
>>> Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Alex
>>
>> There is no formal option.
>> Some say there is no legal option.
>> You can:
>>
>> Hack the LMF
>> Find a perpetual license
>> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>>
>> Probably more ...
>> --
>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>> 170 Grimplin Road
>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486
>
> My most recent hobbyist pak has /TERMINATION_DATE=28-MAY-2015 -
> But it still works if you set date within that year.
> So as long as you're not too concerned about the date,
> I think your old pak should still work.
>
> (P.S. to Dave -- you still in the ultralight business???
> Way back in the late 1970's - early 1980's I flew a
> Seahawk 170 (taught by Bob Doornick), but never got beyond
> ushga novice and a bit of ridge flying off Ellenville.
> All that's left is my Seagull-labelled harness as a souvenir.)
>

I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such. Don't fly as
much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground. I need a new adventure.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 02:39:22 -0700 (PDT), El SysMan
<aaa.vms@gmail.com> wrote:

>???????????, 11 ?????? 2022 ?. ? 21:23:20 UTC+3, Dave Froble:
>> On 4/11/2022 10:24 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
>> > I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>> >
>> > HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
>> > Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> > Alex
>> >
>> There is no formal option.
>>
>> Some say there is no legal option.
>>
>> You can:
>>
>> Hack the LMF
>> Find a perpetual license
>> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>>
>> Probably more ...
>>
>> --
>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>> 170 Grimplin Road
>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486
>
>
>Don't forget VMS Liberation Front Commandante! LOL

Indeed.

comp.os.vms collegiates,

An aperiodic reminder, and community serice announcement, IPL 31:

*** No VAX/VMS, or AXP/VMS, shop ever has to shut down ***

Perpetual Licensing Guaranteed.

Semper VAX/VMS, Semper AXP/VMS, Semper DEC.

Preserving the Glory that was the Digital Equipment Corporation.

Vernon might be the mascot of VMS, but the spirit, totem, animal of
VMS is, undoubtedly, dear Balthazar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au_Hasard_Balthazar

Carry on, good VMSmen, carry on:

https://pastebin.com/SncTKj9m

As always, standard protocol: If you understand and appreciate what
the VLF do, and why, then there is no need to pass commentary.

If you do not understand, or do understand, and do not appreciate what
the VLF do, and why, then, again, there is no need to pass commentary
- rather focus your attention, energies, and intelligence on
encouraging, and guiding, VSI, VMS Software International, to deliver
a thriving, VMS computing ecology, for seven generations, and beyond.

Thank you for your attention.

Best regards,

VLF: The VMS Liberation Front

In VMS We Trust

$!-------------------------- damn straight -----------------------!$
$ opprobrium/level=kittens/mode=conniptions/input=VLF:/output=NL: !$
$!--------------------------- enough said ------------------------!$

Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> John Forkosh wrote:
>> Dave Froble wrote:
>>> Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
>>>> I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>>>>
>>>> HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
>>>> Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> Alex
>>>
>>> There is no formal option.
>>> Some say there is no legal option.
>>> You can:
>>>
>>> Hack the LMF
>>> Find a perpetual license
>>> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>>>
>>> Probably more ...
>>> --
>>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>>> 170 Grimplin Road
>>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486
>>
>> My most recent hobbyist pak has /TERMINATION_DATE=28-MAY-2015 -
>> But it still works if you set date within that year.
>> So as long as you're not too concerned about the date,
>> I think your old pak should still work.
>>
>> (P.S. to Dave -- you still in the ultralight business???
>> Way back in the late 1970's - early 1980's I flew a
>> Seahawk 170 (taught by Bob Doornick), but never got beyond
>> ushga novice and a bit of ridge flying off Ellenville.
>> All that's left is my Seagull-labelled harness as a souvenir.)
>>
> I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such.
> Don't fly as much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground.
> I need a new adventure.

I got into recreational sailing around y2k, and still enjoy it
very much. Bareboat chartering in the Bahamas with some friends,
sailing to the many totally uninhabited islands, exploring...
Some even have abandoned hotels, and you can feel like you're
in some post-apocalyptic movie. The BVIs, however, are just one long
party after another, and I can just do that in NYC whenever I want.
Would have stayed with hang gliding somewhat longer,
but my (now ex) wife finally won the argument that it's
a bit more dangerous than I'd "calculated". Tragically,
a flying buddy, Randy Jensen (son of TV newsman Jim Jensen),
was killed after stalling a tip and side-slipping into
that field south of Ellenville's LZ. I wasn't there at the time,
but his fiance apparently saw the whole thing.
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know from the DMCA,
setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other ways to bypass PAKs.
Even more, suggesting that people change the clock is equally a violation.

I have no idea of the actual enforcement of any violation method.

> Perpetual Licensing Guaranteed.

"License" and "PAK" are spelled differently for a reason.

On 8/24/2022 4:37 AM, John Forkosh wrote:
> Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>> John Forkosh wrote:
>>> Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I have booted up my simh VAX instances for the first time for years and
>>>>> I find that the hobbyist licences I had for these had expired ages ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> HP/Montager doesn't do them any more and VSI only do Alpha or x64.
>>>>> Are there any other ways I can obtain hobbyist licences?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> There is no formal option.
>>>> Some say there is no legal option.
>>>> You can:
>>>>
>>>> Hack the LMF
>>>> Find a perpetual license
>>>> Purchase a license from HP leasing
>>>>
>>>> Probably more ...
>>>> --
>>>> David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
>>>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
>>>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>>>> 170 Grimplin Road
>>>> Vanderbilt, PA 15486
>>>
>>> My most recent hobbyist pak has /TERMINATION_DATE=28-MAY-2015 -
>>> But it still works if you set date within that year.
>>> So as long as you're not too concerned about the date,
>>> I think your old pak should still work.
>>>
>>> (P.S. to Dave -- you still in the ultralight business???
>>> Way back in the late 1970's - early 1980's I flew a
>>> Seahawk 170 (taught by Bob Doornick), but never got beyond
>>> ushga novice and a bit of ridge flying off Ellenville.
>>> All that's left is my Seagull-labelled harness as a souvenir.)
>>>
>> I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such.
>> Don't fly as much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground.
>> I need a new adventure.
>
> I got into recreational sailing around y2k, and still enjoy it
> very much. Bareboat chartering in the Bahamas with some friends,
> sailing to the many totally uninhabited islands, exploring...
> Some even have abandoned hotels, and you can feel like you're
> in some post-apocalyptic movie. The BVIs, however, are just one long
> party after another, and I can just do that in NYC whenever I want.
> Would have stayed with hang gliding somewhat longer,
> but my (now ex) wife finally won the argument that it's
> a bit more dangerous than I'd "calculated". Tragically,
> a flying buddy, Randy Jensen (son of TV newsman Jim Jensen),
> was killed after stalling a tip and side-slipping into
> that field south of Ellenville's LZ. I wasn't there at the time,
> but his fiance apparently saw the whole thing.
>

Never any guarantees. We just do our best. But, crossing the street can also
be rather dangerous, huh?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 2022-08-24, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>
> I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such. Don't fly as
> much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground. I need a new adventure.
>

Stick a backpack on your back and go walking over the same ground
if there are some good hiking trails or if it's open roaming land. :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 8/24/2022 1:11 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2022-08-24, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such. Don't fly as
>> much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground. I need a new adventure.
>>
>
> Stick a backpack on your back and go walking over the same ground
> if there are some good hiking trails or if it's open roaming land. :-)

Hmmm ...

Walk through the woods, get eaten alive by insects, bitten by snakes, lost.

Uh, ... NO!

It's also better in many cases to have multiple people involved. All the old
geezers I've known are dying on me.

:-(

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 8/24/2022 4:52 AM, gah4 wrote:
> IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know from the DMCA,
> setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other ways to bypass PAKs.

It seems pretty obvious that changing the clock does not provide
a legal license to run the software - and no legal license means
illegal.

Arne

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 1:24:37 PM UTC-7, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 4:52 AM, gah4 wrote:
> > IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know from the DMCA,
> > setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other ways to bypass PAKs.

> It seems pretty obvious that changing the clock does not provide
> a legal license to run the software - and no legal license means
> illegal.

Yes, but it is a different question. DMCA doesn't make things more or less
copyright protected. It says things like:

"No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively
controls access to a work protected under this title.

That is, the circumvention, changing the clock, is specifically illegal,
separate from the actual use of software without a license.

It also has:

"No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise
traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—"

that is, supplying devices or information that allows others to circumvent protection.

Note, for example, that it is not illegal to tell someone how to make a bomb.
That is, likely, protected under freedom of speech. Actually using the bomb to
blow something up is illegal, and likely helping someone to do it.

There are some fine details that I don't include, especially related to legal uses
of technology. Video recording for time shifting is legal, and so is selling VCRs,
even though they could be used for illegal copying and selling videos.

I suspect changing the clock to test for clock related problems is legal, and
so is telling people how to do it. (There is still the Y2038 problem coming up.)

If the technology has both legal and illegal uses, then the rules are more
complicated.

On 8/24/2022 4:24 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 4:52 AM, gah4 wrote:
>> IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know from the
>> DMCA,
>> setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other ways to
>> bypass PAKs.
>
> It seems pretty obvious that changing the clock does not provide
> a legal license to run the software - and no legal license means
> illegal.
>
> Arne

Ok, consider, is there any rules about what the clock should be set to? I'd
hope not. So, one might have a license to run VMS when the clock is between two
date/times. What's so wrong about that?

It amazes me that some people are so eager to defend someone else's IP ...

And so narrow minded ...

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

On 8/24/2022 8:33 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 4:24 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 8/24/2022 4:52 AM, gah4 wrote:
>>>   IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know
>>> from the
>>> DMCA,
>>> setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other
>>> ways to
>>> bypass PAKs.
>>
>> It seems pretty obvious that changing the clock does not provide
>> a legal license to run the software - and no legal license means
>> illegal.
>
> Ok, consider, is there any rules about what the clock should be set to?
>
> I'd hope not. So, one might have a license to run VMS when the clock is
> between two date/times. What's so wrong about that?

You can set your system clock to whatever you want.

But when you got a license to that are valid from T1 to T2 then
that is for the real T1 and T2 - not what any system clock says.

> It amazes me that some people are so eager to defend someone else's IP ...

Law abiding citizens ...

Arne

On 8/24/2022 6:25 PM, gah4 wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 1:24:37 PM UTC-7, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 8/24/2022 4:52 AM, gah4 wrote:
>>> IANAL, so be sure to ask your actual lawyer, but as far as I know from the DMCA,
>>> setting the clock to a different time is just as illegal as other ways to bypass PAKs.
>
>> It seems pretty obvious that changing the clock does not provide
>> a legal license to run the software - and no legal license means
>> illegal.
>
> Yes, but it is a different question. DMCA doesn't make things more or less
> copyright protected. It says things like:
>
> "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively
> controls access to a work protected under this title.
>
> That is, the circumvention, changing the clock, is specifically illegal,
> separate from the actual use of software without a license.

I got it now.

Arne

On 2022-08-24, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 1:11 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2022-08-24, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess so. Not much business, but I still have parts and such. Don't fly as
>>> much anymore. Gets boring flying over the same ground. I need a new adventure.
>>>
>>
>> Stick a backpack on your back and go walking over the same ground
>> if there are some good hiking trails or if it's open roaming land. :-)
>
> Hmmm ...
>
> Walk through the woods, get eaten alive by insects, bitten by snakes, lost.
>

Lost: learn navigation skills, and have multiple navigation backups. :-)
For me, I like the paper OS 1:25000 maps here in the UK because they allow
me to build a better mental picture of where I am than the digital devices.
I tend to only use digital devices as a backup.

Snakes: I've never been lucky enough to see one :-(, even though I do walk
in Adder occupied areas sometimes.

Insects: Plenty of mosquito and bug protection options. You should always
carry a tick removal card in your first aid kit as well.

> Uh, ... NO!
>

And yet, you don't mind flying some small private plane... :-)

> It's also better in many cases to have multiple people involved. All the old
> geezers I've known are dying on me.
>

Actually, when I go out walking, it's by myself because I like the solitude
of being all by myself in the middle of nowhere. :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 11:44:32 PM UTC-7, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
>
> Vernon might be the mascot of VMS, but the spirit, totem, animal of
> VMS is, undoubtedly, dear Balthazar:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au_Hasard_Balthazar

Indeed. I notice that the /Credits/ link on that page does not list the animal actor. Seems completely appropriate.

gah4 wrote:

> Note, for example, that it is not illegal to tell someone how to make a bomb.
> That is, likely, protected under freedom of speech.

Depending where you live ... here it would likely be classed as
"possession of information likely to be useful to a terrorist", landing you in
court, fancy your chances of justifying it and being found not-guilty?

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193>

On Thu, 2022-08-25 at 13:12 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
> Snakes: I've never been lucky enough to see one :-(, even though I do
> walk in Adder occupied areas sometimes.

That's because they are very timid creatures and will rapidly crawl
away if humans approach. Getting bitten is extremely rare due to this.

On the other hand I have seen slow worms, athough they are not worms
nor snakes, rather a form of legless lizards. They don't bite and can
be found sleeping under things. Like the time my aunt found a pair
getting it on in her compost bin and freaked out considerably.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

On 2022-08-25, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> gah4 wrote:
>
>> Note, for example, that it is not illegal to tell someone how to make a bomb.
>> That is, likely, protected under freedom of speech.
>
> Depending where you live ... here it would likely be classed as
> "possession of information likely to be useful to a terrorist", landing you in
> court, fancy your chances of justifying it and being found not-guilty?
>
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193>
>

Andy is right. To give you an idea of how different things are in the
UK compared to the US, in this country you don't even have an automatic
right to carry a knife with a blade longer than 3 inches, and the <= 3 inch
ones you do have an automatic right to carry have to be none locking.

If you have something like even a Mora bushcraft knife on you, you had
better have a valid legitimate reason for carrying it on you during the
journey that you are currently making.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2022-08-25, Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.eu> wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-08-25 at 13:12 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> Snakes: I've never been lucky enough to see one :-(, even though I do
>> walk in Adder occupied areas sometimes.
>
> That's because they are very timid creatures and will rapidly crawl
> away if humans approach. Getting bitten is extremely rare due to this.
>

Then there are the bright sparks who do the following: :-(

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/dont-pick-snakes-warn-officials-after-man-bitten-yorkshire-forest-1837117

This one was a few years ago, but I remember it because it attracted
a lot of attention at the time.

> On the other hand I have seen slow worms, athough they are not worms
> nor snakes, rather a form of legless lizards. They don't bite and can
> be found sleeping under things. Like the time my aunt found a pair
> getting it on in her compost bin and freaked out considerably.

:-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:53:45 AM UTC-7, Andy Burns wrote:
> gah4 wrote:
>
> > Note, for example, that it is not illegal to tell someone how to make a bomb.
> > That is, likely, protected under freedom of speech.

> Depending where you live ... here it would likely be classed as
> "possession of information likely to be useful to a terrorist", landing you in
> court, fancy your chances of justifying it and being found not-guilty?
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193>

Yes, the reply was meant for US, as I suspect much of the rest of
the question is. Different countries have different copyright laws,
and in some you might not need a license.

On Thu, 2022-08-25 at 17:43 +0000, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > That's because they are very timid creatures and will rapidly crawl
> > away if humans approach. Getting bitten is extremely rare due to
> > this.
>
> Then there are the bright sparks who do the following: :-(
> https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/dont-pick-snakes-warn-officials-after-man-bitten-yorkshire-forest-1837117
>
> This one was a few years ago, but I remember it because it attracted
> a lot of attention at the time.
>

Words fail me. I should be used to this by now but I never cease to be
astonished by the amount of stupidity humans can exhibit and that just
takes the biscuit. And I read a /lot/ of the Darwin Awards articles! 
:-D

> > On the other hand I have seen slow worms, athough they are not
> > worms nor snakes, rather a form of legless lizards. They don't bite
> > and can be found sleeping under things. Like the time my aunt found
> > a pair getting it on in her compost bin and freaked out
> > considerably.
>
> :-)

Funny, it was.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens