On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:32:50 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Like you, I have an electrical engineering degree
>
> if that were even remotely true, you would have a basic understanding
> of batteries, loads and in particular, internal resistance. you do not,
> thus it must be false.

Unlike you, nospam, I don't bullshit.

I can always back up my claims, also quite unlike you bullshitters, nospam.
You _never_ can.

Wanna see my textbooks, nospam?
I'll put them next to my iPads.

Which of my EE text books do you want to see a photo of next to my iPads?

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:42:03 -0800, Bob F wrote:

> Covid has only killed 1/375 of all Americans. In 11 days, it killed more
> people than all the murders in ANY year. It has been the largest single
> cause of death of police officers in the USA.

Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.
> No problem at all.

Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?

> That WA state cop that FOX made a hero of for getting fired because he
> refused to get vaccinated - died of covid last Friday.

Are all your belief systems based entirely on the experience of one person?
> What a hero.

Do you realize your entire belief system is based on zero scientific facts?

On 1/31/2022 7:42 PM, Bob F wrote:

<snip>

> That WA state cop that FOX made a hero of for getting fired because he
> refused to get vaccinated - died of covid last Friday.
>
> What a hero.

It indeed is very sad that people are dying because they believe "news"
as broadcast by Fox and OAN instead of believing doctors and scientists.

The number of Covid deaths has actually been under-reported in the U.S.,
often for political reasons, see
<https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/underreporting-covid-19-deaths/>.

In article <staad6$1ser$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> >> Like you, I have an electrical engineering degree
> >
> > if that were even remotely true, you would have a basic understanding
> > of batteries, loads and in particular, internal resistance. you do not,
> > thus it must be false.
>
> Unlike you, nospam, I bullshit.

ftfy

>
> Wanna see my textbooks, nospam?

let's see your grades. whatever books you supposedly have, you did not
learn anything from them.

how is it someone with a supposed ee degree does not understand
anything about batteries and basic circuits? it's first semester stuff
and even taught in high school physics sufficiently to answer the
question.

In article <staalf$1uik$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > Covid has only killed 1/375 of all Americans. In 11 days, it killed more
> > people than all the murders in ANY year. It has been the largest single
> > cause of death of police officers in the USA.
>
> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.

cfr is about 1-2%, depending on various factors.

>
> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?

that is very much false.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:02:39 -0800, sms wrote:

> It indeed is very sad that people are dying because they believe "news"
> as broadcast by Fox and OAN instead of believing doctors and scientists.
>

This conversation has _nothing_ to do with Fox news (or Trump).
That you are _desperate_ to make it all about them, tells us about you.

Most people are immune to Covid whether you like that fact or not.

> The number of Covid deaths has actually been under-reported in the U.S.,
> often for political reasons, see
> <https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/underreporting-covid-19-deaths/>.

The risk of death is 0.2% whether you like that fact or not, Steve.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 23:09:45 -0500, nospam wrote:

> how is it someone with a supposed ee degree does not understand
> anything about batteries and basic circuits? it's first semester stuff
> and even taught in high school physics sufficiently to answer the
> question.

I notice you won't take me up on my offer because you know I don't bullshit.

That you feel I don't understand internal resistance of batteries is
interesting though, as it's you who claims that "battery chemistry" is why
Apple was so _desperate_ to secretly throttle iPhones.

How exactly did battery chemistry cause Apple to not only secretly throttle
iPhones, nospam, but also to backdate the release notes well after the fact?

On 1/31/2022 8:02 PM, sms wrote:

> The number of Covid deaths has actually been under-reported in the
> U.S.,

The hospitals are overflowing in my area because of Covid. A lady I know
had to have her elective heart surgery postponed because there were no
facilities available. One ambulance had to go extra miles (and time) to
a farther emergency room because the closest one was full. So I suspect
that there are also many non-Covid deaths that are caused by Covid...

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 23:09:46 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.
>
> cfr is about 1-2%, depending on various factors.

Idiot.

It's a _lot_ more than that rate you claim, "depending on various factors"
such as the very old and the very sick and the immunocompromised, nospam.

Overall it's 0.2% (which includes _all_ those "various factors", nospam.
>> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?
>
> that is very much false.

Whenever you make your fact-free denials of well known facts, I have to
wonder whether you are pulling our leg, or if your entire belief system
really is based on exactly _zero_ facts, nospam.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=percentage+people+covid+asymptomatic>
Pick one.

Note the numbers range because it's impossible to tell for sure since the
asymptomatic people may not know to get tested and they may not report
results even when they do get tested (likewise with people who get sick).

You have to look at the magnitude... which is astoundingly huge.

On 2022-02-01 04:59:52 +0000, AJL said:
> On 1/31/2022 8:02 PM, sms wrote:
>>
>> The number of Covid deaths has actually been under-reported in the
>> U.S.,
>
> The hospitals are overflowing in my area because of Covid. A lady I know
> had to have her elective heart surgery postponed because there were no
> facilities available. One ambulance had to go extra miles (and time) to
> a farther emergency room because the closest one was full. So I suspect
> that there are also many non-Covid deaths that are caused by Covid...

Yep, there was a man in the newspaper here in New Zealand yesterday who
has been waiting months for triple bypass heart surgery. He could die
at any minute if his heart decides to give out, but dealys caused by
Covid (lockdowns, etc.) have meant he and thousands of others have had
to wait. The only surgies taking place are those that emergency ones
that *have* to be done *right now*.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:59:52 -0800, AJL wrote:

> The hospitals are overflowing in my area because of Covid. A lady I know
> had to have her elective heart surgery postponed because there were no
> facilities available. One ambulance had to go extra miles (and time) to
> a farther emergency room because the closest one was full. So I suspect
> that there are also many non-Covid deaths that are caused by Covid...

This anecdotal fear mongering doesn't change the facts.

The fact is the fatality rate is about 0.2% overall (which _includes_ the
very sick and the very old and the immunocompromised cases).

The fact is that most people are innately immune to Covid in terms of
symptoms (although they're still able to pass it on for a period of time).

The overall fatality rate for children aged 5 to 11 in the USA is 0.002%.

All the anecdotal evidence in the world doesn't change those facts.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 18:20:07 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> Yep, there was a man in the newspaper here in New Zealand yesterday who
> has been waiting months for triple bypass heart surgery. He could die
> at any minute if his heart decides to give out, but dealys caused by
> Covid (lockdowns, etc.) have meant he and thousands of others have had
> to wait. The only surgies taking place are those that emergency ones
> that *have* to be done *right now*.

Notice how all the people who are driven insane by fear take a single case.
And then they turn that single instance into their entire belief system.

Fear drives them. Not science. Not logic.
Fear.

In article <staeng$111b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > how is it someone with a supposed ee degree does not understand
> > anything about batteries and basic circuits? it's first semester stuff
> > and even taught in high school physics sufficiently to answer the
> > question.
>
> I notice you won't take me up on my offer because you know I don't bullshit.

projection. you continue to avoid answering and instead are playing
your usual games.

In article <staf2b$13nh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> >> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.
> >
> > cfr is about 1-2%, depending on various factors.
>
> Idiot.

ad hominem.

> It's a _lot_ more than that rate you claim, "depending on various factors"
> such as the very old and the very sick and the immunocompromised, nospam.
>
> Overall it's 0.2% (which includes _all_ those "various factors", nospam.

nope. overall it's 1-2%, with different cohorts having different rates.

early on, it was about 2%, but vaccines and more effective treatments
have reduced it, although some people refuse either or both, raising it
for their cohort.

> >> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?
> >
> > that is very much false.
>
> Whenever you make your fact-free denials of well known facts, I have to
> wonder whether you are pulling our leg, or if your entire belief system
> really is based on exactly _zero_ facts, nospam.
> <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=percentage+people+covid+asymptomatic>

asymptomatic is not the same as immune. anyone who claims that has no
understanding at all.

someone who is asymptomatic *is* infected and *can* transmit it to
others.

asymptomatic transmission is a large part of what's driving the spread.
people think they're fine and do not stay home, then end up giving it
to others without even realizing it. this is particularly true for
omicron, which is *very* easily spread.

>
> You have to look at the magnitude... which is astoundingly huge.

the magnitude of your stupidity, yes.

On 2022-01-31 7:50 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:42:03 -0800, Bob F wrote:
>
>> Covid has only killed 1/375 of all Americans. In 11 days, it killed more
>> people than all the murders in ANY year. It has been the largest single
>> cause of death of police officers in the USA.
>
> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.
>
>> No problem at all.
>
> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?

That is one of the most inane statements you have ever made.

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 22:27:00 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> Facts are usually backed up with evidence which you've not done.
>
> Hi Chris,
> I welcome any _adult_ discussion, given this is one of my fields of study.
>
> It is true that I've claimed quite a few facts w/o providing the cites.
> I'm glad you asked for a cite for the facts that you openly dispute, Chris.
>
> Which of the facts that I've claimed are facts do you openly dispute Chris?
>
>>> a. This "shot" does not even strictly meet CDC definitions of a "vaccine".
>>
>> False.
>
> It's interesting that you provide zero cites to your bold claim.
>
> I'm not ever afraid of facts, Chris.
> Are you?

Let me highlight it for you:

> Here's the definition. <https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/terms/glossary.html>
> "A suspension of live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms
> (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or

"fractions thereof administered to induce immunity"
RNA is a fraction of the SARS-CoV-2 virus so fits the definition perfectly.

> and prevent infectious diseases and their sequelae.
> Some vaccines contain highly defined antigens (e.g., the polysaccharide
> of Haemophilus influenzae type b or the surface antigen of hepatitis B);
> others have antigens that are complex or incompletely defined
> (e.g. Bordetella pertussis antigens or live attenuated viruses)."

The CDC list is not exhaustive.

> Do you even have the comprehensive skills to notice what is missing, Chris?
> HINT: You have absolutely no clue _how_ this shot works inside the body!

I'll show you how you're the ignorant one.

>>> b. This "shot" is _clearly_ not needed by most people (more than 60%).
>>
>> No different to any other vaccine.
>
> Chris... the fact you can claim that means you have absolutely zero
> comprehension whatsoever of _how_ this shot works once inside your body.
>
> What "other vaccine", for example, causes your cells to explode

The COVID vaccines don't cause cells to explode.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8418359/

Cells produce the spike protein and then via an MHC-mediated process
*present* the antigens on the surface which then raises an immune response.
No explosion reqiured.

>
>>> c. Certainly for kids (whose immune systems are naive) it's even less!
>>> d. The chance of any one person dying from Covid in the USA is 0.2%
>>
>> Which is why a treatment is required. That's a dangerous disease.
>
> The danger to children is 0.002% fatality, with a 100% infection rate.
> The danger to adults is 0.2% fatality, with a 100% infection rate.
> Most people are completely immune to the disease with respect to symptoms.

You're completely missing the point and falling for the ageist and ableist
propaganda pushed by antivaxxers that it doesn't harm me so it doesn't
matter that a few old and infirm people die. That's subhuman thinking.

COVID has killed over 5 million people FFS.

>>> e. That _includes_ the very sick and the very old already in that number.
>>> f. The chance of a kid (5-11) dying from Covid in the USA is 0.002%.
>>> g. That means any one person has a 99.998 (kids) to 99.8% chance of living.
>>
>> You've avoided separating out the old and sick.
>> Their risk of death can be over 10%.
>> https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator
>
> I never once "avoided" the old and sick as in another post I gave the
> percentages for those over 60, and that it essentially doubled for each
> decade thereafter.
>
> Did you miss that statement?

I was replying to this post only.

>>> h. However, the chance of getting "infected" is nearly 100% (essentially).
>>
>> No it isn't.
>
> Given we know there are human coronaviruses which are endemic throughout the
> world, and we know that it's not unusual for people to get the same virus
> multiple times in a single year, let alone many times in their lifetimes,
> what makes you think _this_ human coronavirus isn't at least as infectious?
>
> What do you think the risk is of getting infected then, Chris?

See the reference I gave you below.

>>> i. And the chance of passing it on during that phase is also nearly 100%.
>>
>> No it isn't. Even measles which is the most infectious disease doesn't
>> infect everyone who comes into contact with am infectious person.
>
> Wow. I'm impressed. You know the R0 (aka "R naught") for measles ranges from
> about 12 to about 18 (it depends _greatly_ on the situation), which is much
> _higher_ than that of the SARS-Cov2 virus (which is about 1.5 to about 3.5)
> and which is greatly adversely affected by the prevalence of "super
> spreaders" in the population.
>
> Kudos to you for knowing something Chris.
>
> The well known problem with such a low R0 is that most people are immune to
> covid symptoms, so we have to account for that in our calculations (which
> aren't in the 1.5 to 3.5 R0 as far as I know - simply because that data is
> unknown until _everyone_ (or most everyone) is tested - and they're not.
>
>> COVID in this study has a 2% infectivity rate.
>> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32651-9/fulltext
>
> December 18, 2020
> Infectivity of asymptomatic versus symptomatic COVID-19
> <https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32651-9/fulltext>
> a. Little is known about asymptomatic infectivity
> b. Singapore tests cases and close contacts (2m for at least 30 min)
> c. Seronegative cases are thought to be more infectious than seropositive
> d. Studied people between August 1 2020 and October 11 2020
> e. They threw out those who didn't have the complete battery of tests
> f. They threw out migrant workers who lived in close proximity to people
> g. That left them with 628 test subjects & 3790 "close contacts"
> h. Each index case averaged 6 people quarrantined
> i. Overall 89 (2% of the 3790 close contacts) developed symptoms
> j. Of those 89 people that developed covid symptoms
> 56% were put in quarrantine due to an asymptomatic index case
> 44% were put in quarrantine due to a seronegative index case
> 46% were put in quarrantine due to a seropositive index case
> k. They calculated 3.85 times more transmission from symptomatic cases
> l. They therefore concluded asymptomatic people were "less infectious"
>
> The article concluded with the normal list of inaccuracies and further
> studies where their goal was to bolster support for contact tracing.

Disappointing that you reject evidence so glibly.

>>> j. The chance of "feeling sick" is about %40 once you are infected.
>>> k. Back to the shot, the chance of dying from the shot itself is negligible.
>>
>> Correct. In the UK following over 100 million vaccinations there have been
>> ~15 deaths directly attributed to the vaccine.
>
> It's good that you recognize that fact which, for some strange reason, many
> of the "Republicans" don't acknowledge, which is that the shot itself isn't
> killing people in any great manner.
>
> To be sure, the shot causes our cells to explode creating one protein, which
> itself has been shown in studies to cause appreciable vascular damage in and
> of itself, but most people seem to weather that vascular damage quite well.

Still wrong.

>>> l. And the shot doesn't give you chips or anything crazy that people say.
>>> m. The shot is either mRNA or RNA spliced onto DNA of a zoonotic adenovirus.
>>
>> As well as the other types.
>
> What "other types" are there that are approved for use in the USA Chris?
> a. mRNA
> b. RNA spliced onto chimpanzee adenovirus DNA
> c. ?

Who cares about the USA!? Get your blinkers off. This is a global pandemic
and requires a global response.

There are many other vaccines:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine

>>> n. That causes your cells to explode after making tons of one spike protein.
>>
>> Nope. That's what the virus does.
>
> Chris,
> What do you _think_ happens

I don't need to think at all. The research has *shown* how the vaccines
work and it's not via cytotoxicity.
See my reference above.

The virus on the other hand does self-replicate causing the targetted
(lung) cells to lyse. This is what causes the viral symptoms of the
disease.

On 1/31/2022 8:59 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/31/2022 8:02 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> The number of Covid deaths has actually been under-reported in the
>> U.S.,
>
> The hospitals are overflowing in my area because of Covid. A lady I know
> had to have her elective heart surgery postponed because there were no
> facilities available. One ambulance had to go extra miles (and time) to
> a farther emergency room because the closest one was full. So I suspect
> that there are also many non-Covid deaths that are caused by Covid...

Very true. Those indirect deaths, caused by facility and staff shortages
that could have been averted had so many people not decided to "own the
libs" by not getting vaccinated, could have been avoided and should be
counted as Covid-related.

How anti-vaxers do statistics: <https://i.imgur.com/2pUYdp2.png>.

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:02:48 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> Sadly, that's become the norm for the anti-vaxers that don't have the
>> scientific knowledge or critical thinking skills to understand the
>> reality of infectious diseases and statistics.
>
> Steve,
>
> I get it that you're an off-the-wall pegged-far-to-the left Democrat.
> But you need to comprehend not everyone lives in abject fear like you do.
>
> Like you, I have an electrical engineering degree

That explains a lot. Come back when you have a degree in something
biological.

Much of biology, especially molecular biology, is probabilistic. Not
deterministic like engineering.

You cannot deal in absolutes in biology which is what makes it hard
explaining to people when the strongest words you can use are likely or
very likely. Or reduce significantly.

We cannot say with certainty what will or won't happen. It's all
likelihoods based on multimodal variables.

Also biological systems have emergent behaviours which means they respond -
sometimes unpredictably - to interventions. This is not simple Newtonian
reactions. For example we know that COVID *will* mutate, but we don't know
when or exactly how nor the impact.

Physics can exquisitely calculate how an object will react to some imparted
force. Only Biology can explain why, when that object is a tiger, it rips
your arm off.

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:32:50 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> Like you, I have an electrical engineering degree
>>
>> if that were even remotely true, you would have a basic understanding
>> of batteries, loads and in particular, internal resistance. you do not,
>> thus it must be false.
>
> Unlike you, nospam, I don't bullshit.
>
> I can always back up my claims, also quite unlike you bullshitters, nospam.
> You _never_ can.
>
> Wanna see my textbooks, nospam?
> I'll put them next to my iPads.
>
> Which of my EE text books do you want to see a photo of next to my iPads?

What does that prove? That you can buy books? I've got rid most of my
biology text books as they're no longer accurate.

I have a copy the bible here. That doesn't make me a Christian.

On 2/1/2022 4:53 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> You cannot deal in absolutes in biology which is what makes it hard
> explaining to people when the strongest words you can use are likely or
> very likely. Or reduce significantly.
>
> We cannot say with certainty what will or won't happen. It's all
> likelihoods based on multimodal variables.
>
> Also biological systems have emergent behaviours which means they respond -
> sometimes unpredictably - to interventions. This is not simple Newtonian
> reactions. For example we know that COVID *will* mutate, but we don't know
> when or exactly how nor the impact.
>
> Physics can exquisitely calculate how an object will react to some imparted
> force. Only Biology can explain why, when that object is a tiger, it rips
> your arm off.

Well-stated.

Part of what the anti-vaxers like to seize on is the evolving medical
advice regarding Covid.

When researchers discovered that their original determination of spread
was not 100% accurate, for example spreading through touching surfaces
is not as common as originally believed, Covid-deniers proclaimed that
the medical experts were clueless.

When the medical community wanted to reserve the limited N95 and KN95
masks for hospital use and told people to wear surgical masks or cloth
masks, then later, when sufficient N95 and KN95 masks became available
and they modified their guidance, the Covid-deniers proclaimed that the
medical experts were clueless.

When breakthrough Omicron infections began in those that had been
vaccinated, the anti-vaxers began proclaiming that "vaccines don't work."

The most ridiculous proclamations from Covid-deniers was to deny that
people who died as a result of Covid would have died soon anyway,
because of other medical conditions. Yet all they would have to do is to
compare the total annual death rate pre-pandemic and post-pandemic, by
age, to learn that that was not the case. What is true, is that over the
next five to ten years we will likely see a reduction in the annual
death rate below pre-pandemic levels because so many people died sooner
that they otherwise would have died.

And of course we have the high-profile liars like Joe Rogan, Aaron
Rodgers, etc., that really are smarter than they make themselves out to
be, but do what they do for political reasons, not realizing that there
are plenty of not-so-smart people out there that will believe them.

I really applaud AT&T for withdrawing financial support to OAN even
though they did it for business reasons.

On 2/1/2022 5:00 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> What does that prove? That you can buy books? I've got rid most of my
> biology text books as they're no longer accurate.
>
> I have a copy the bible here. That doesn't make me a Christian.

I still have some of my EE textbooks. But I don't think I'll take a
photo of them and post it somewhere.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Cole@acnewsitics: "Now that Biden won, watch me not wear his name
on my hat and not put a giant Biden flag on my truck and drive around
with it for 4 years like a f***ing weirdo."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 01:16:36 -0500, nospam wrote:

> nope. overall it's 1-2%, with different cohorts having different rates.

There are a number of "overall" rates, one of which is the "Case Fatality
Rate" which is _not_ the "Crude Mortality Rate" that I am quoting, nospam.

One is fatalities per confirmed infection while the other is per population.

> asymptomatic is not the same as immune. anyone who claims that has no
> understanding at all.

Idiot.

I already explained that (multiple times) nospam, which again proves you
don't own even the most basic of adult comprehensive skills.

> someone who is asymptomatic *is* infected and *can* transmit it to
> others.

Jesus Christ nospam.

What grade are you in?

If the only way you can process facts that you happen to hate is to create
your own imaginary strawman of what you "think" I said, and then you attack
that lifeless strawman of your own fabrication, it again proves you don't
own even the most rudimentary of adult comprehensive skills, nospam.

> asymptomatic transmission is a large part of what's driving the spread.

Idiot.

I said this already, multiple times, and - to this credit - Chris actually
disputed it, but at least Chris came up with a study from Singapore that,
while it had huge limitations, showed startlingly _low_ transmission rates
(although the study was limited in scope).

If the only way you can attack what people said is to ignore what they said
and then fabricate your own lifeless strawman and then attack that, then it
just proves you have no ability for an erudite adult conversation, nospam.

You just don't.

> people think they're fine and do not stay home, then end up giving it
> to others without even realizing it. this is particularly true for
> omicron, which is *very* easily spread.

Idiot.

I explained all of this (many times) in this thread alone, nospam, where
again, all you _can_ do is brazenly fabricate an imaginary strawman, and
then you proceed to attack that lifeless strawman of your own creation.

>> You have to look at the magnitude... which is astoundingly huge.
>
> the magnitude of your stupidity, yes.

When you _hate_ a fact, the only way your brain can process that fact is for
you to fabricate a position that nobody took - just so that you can then
attack that imaginary position that never existed.

Interestingly, it's how you handle Apple facts that you hate.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 01:47:11 -0800, sms wrote:

> Very true. Those indirect deaths, caused by facility and staff shortages
> that could have been averted had so many people not decided to "own the
> libs" by not getting vaccinated, could have been avoided and should be
> counted as Covid-related.
>
> How anti-vaxers do statistics: <https://i.imgur.com/2pUYdp2.png>.

The CDC is who claims the US Covid19 case mortality rate is 0.2% Steve.
(0.002% for US children aged 5-11 from October 2020 to October 2021)

I realize you're a pegged-to-the-wall Democrat Steve, which means you _hate_
facts that go against your kindergarten solutions, but seriously, Steve...

*Are you seriously claiming the CDC are "anti-vaxxers"?*

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:39:47 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> The CDC is who claims the US Covid19 case mortality rate is 0.2% Steve.
> (0.002% for US children aged 5-11 from October 2020 to October 2021)

oops. Crude (not case)!

On 01/02/2022 15:37, sms wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 4:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You cannot deal in absolutes in biology which is what makes it hard
>> explaining to people when the strongest words you can use are likely or
>> very likely. Or reduce significantly.
>>
>> We cannot say with certainty what will or won't happen. It's all
>> likelihoods based on multimodal variables.
>>
>> Also biological systems have emergent behaviours which means they
>> respond -
>> sometimes unpredictably - to interventions. This is not simple Newtonian
>> reactions. For example we know that COVID *will* mutate, but we don't
>> know
>> when or exactly how nor the impact.
>>
>> Physics can exquisitely calculate how an object will react to some
>> imparted
>> force. Only Biology can explain why, when that object is a tiger, it rips
>> your arm off.
>
> Well-stated.
>
> Part of what the anti-vaxers like to seize on is the evolving medical
> advice regarding Covid.
>
> When researchers discovered that their original determination of spread
> was not 100% accurate, for example spreading through touching surfaces
> is not as common as originally believed, Covid-deniers proclaimed that
> the medical experts were clueless.
>
> When the medical community wanted to reserve the limited N95 and KN95
> masks for hospital use and told people to wear surgical masks or cloth
> masks, then later, when sufficient N95 and KN95 masks became available
> and they modified their guidance, the Covid-deniers proclaimed that the
> medical experts were clueless.
>
> When breakthrough Omicron infections began in those that had been
> vaccinated, the anti-vaxers began proclaiming that "vaccines don't work."
>
> The most ridiculous proclamations from Covid-deniers was to deny that
> people who died as a result of Covid would have died soon anyway,
> because of other medical conditions. Yet all they would have to do is to
> compare the total annual death rate pre-pandemic and post-pandemic, by
> age, to learn that that was not the case. What is true, is that over the
> next five to ten years we will likely see a reduction in the annual
> death rate below pre-pandemic levels because so many people died sooner
> that they otherwise would have died.

Yup. All very accurate.
> And of course we have the high-profile liars like Joe Rogan, Aaron
> Rodgers, etc., that really are smarter than they make themselves out to
> be, but do what they do for political reasons, not realizing that there
> are plenty of not-so-smart people out there that will believe them.

There may be some politics, but there's also a lot of money.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/27/anti-vaxxers-making-at-least-25m-a-year-from-publishing-on-substack

> I really applaud AT&T for withdrawing financial support to OAN even
> though they did it for business reasons.