On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:10:18 -0800, sms wrote:

>>> My adult point is, was, and always has been on this thread that:
>>> � *Those most ignorant are the ones telling everyone else what to do*
>>
>> Oh, how perfect!
>> Irony: whooshed.
>
> LOL. Quite the chutzpah.

Steve responded in kindergarten fashion but I'm responding as an adult.

I think it's irony that I easily proved Steve didn't know any facts.
Especially since I have a degree in this stuff (among other degrees).

I gave fact, after fact, after fact, many of which come from the CDC.
Yet, Steve brazenly _denied_ that any CDC fact was ever known to him.

Why?
I don't know why.

I suspect that CDC facts aren't what makes Steve come to his conclusions.
<https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/03-COVID-Jefferson-508.pdf>

And yet, the fact remains, even as Steve denies all facts he simply hates.
*The chance of a US child dying of Covid is 0.0002% (that's from the CDC)*

The question is valid at what risk level should we lose all our rights?
Steve === you lose all your rights at a 0.0002% risk
Me === You can lose all your rights - but the risk has to outweigh it

Responding to Steve's kindergarten post, my adult observation is that:
a. Those most ignorant about Covid are the ones most scared,
(and that's ok)

b. But those most ignorant are the ones trying to destroy all your rights.
(and that is what is not ok)
--
Like it or not, Covid is here forever - so we need to learn about it.

On 2/14/2022 7:21 AM, Not nospam wrote:

<snip>

> It seems you have "a degree" in every topic under discussion...
>
> That also seems... ...unlikely.

Reminds me of "Ask Dr. Science," see
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUAsmtfVFXU&t=63s>.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:22:52 -0800, sms wrote:

>> It seems you have "a degree" in every topic under discussion...
>>
>> That also seems... ...unlikely.
>
> Reminds me of "Ask Dr. Science," see
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUAsmtfVFXU&t=63s>.

Despite Steve's kindergarten response, mine will be that of an adult...

First off, notice _every_ post from Steve is that of a kindergarten child.
Secondly, Steve quotes "Alan Baker" (whom Steve identifies with).

FACT: I have _always_ said, for decades, what my degrees are in.
Those degrees have never changed (why would they).
It's only Alan Baker and Steve who are ignorant of what I've said.
Which, after all, goes with _everything_ they have said to date.

Now back to an intelligent erudite _adult_ discussion of the topic at hand.

The only thing I ask of Steve, who does have an EE degree (as also do I),
where both of us live in the most expensive areas of Silicon Valley
possible, to simply act like an adult for once.

Adults, even on Usenet, are supposed to be smarter than kindergarten kids.
I'm on Usenet to add value, and to receive value.

I'm not on Usenet for mere amusement (which is Alan Baker's only goal).
Tell me something I don't already know, Steve.

A fact perhaps?

The intelligent adult question to ask of Steve, who, as we all know, is a
far-to-the-left Democrat (and that's OK as I'm neither Democrat nor
Republican because I can think for myself, thank you) is this question...

Given that I've proved those most ignorant of Covid...
Are the ones most adamant about what _others_ should do...
Because, out of their ignorance, they're scared of those other people...

*At what risk level do we lose all our hard-won freedoms, Steve*

On 2022-02-13 11:20 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 08:16:31 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> Sadly, we have people in this country, like our favorite nym-shifting
>> troll, that don't understand science or statistics, and feel compelled
>> to try to spread their ignorance.
>
> The wacko Steve is wrong about what I said since I (many times) said:
> a. Because I _understand_ why people are desperate to get the shot, and,
> b. Because I also _understand_ why people are desperate NOT to get the shot

Because of your degree in psychology?

Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?

Or perhaps your degree in virology?

Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.

Did I miss any?

On 02/14/2022 08:58 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-02-13 11:20 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 08:16:31 -0800, sms wrote:
>>
>>> Sadly, we have people in this country, like our favorite nym-shifting
>>> troll, that don't understand science or statistics, and feel compelled
>>> to try to spread their ignorance.
>>
>> The wacko Steve is wrong about what I said since I (many times) said:
>> a. Because I _understand_ why people are desperate to get the shot, and,
>> b. Because I also _understand_ why people are desperate NOT to get the shot
>
> Because of your degree in psychology?
>
> Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?
>
> Or perhaps your degree in virology?
>
> Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.
>
> Did I miss any?

Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death."
-- Hunter S. Thompson

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/14/2022 08:58 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-02-13 11:20 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 08:16:31 -0800, sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sadly, we have people in this country, like our favorite nym-shifting
>>>> troll, that don't understand science or statistics, and feel compelled
>>>> to try to spread their ignorance.
>>>
>>> The wacko Steve is wrong about what I said since I (many times) said:
>>> a. Because I _understand_ why people are desperate to get the shot, and,
>>> b. Because I also _understand_ why people are desperate NOT to get the shot
>>
>> Because of your degree in psychology?
>>
>> Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?
>>
>> Or perhaps your degree in virology?
>>
>> Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.
>>
>> Did I miss any?
>
> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.

Only if you assume everything is a sphere in a vacuum ;)

On 2/14/2022 10:07 AM, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/14/2022 08:58 AM, Alan wrote:

<snip>

>>> Because of your degree in psychology?
>>>
>>> Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?
>>>
>>> Or perhaps your degree in virology?
>>>
>>> Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.
>>>
>>> Did I miss any?
>>
>> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.
>
> Only if you assume everything is a sphere in a vacuum ;)

Isn't it?

Seriously, add chemistry and statistics to physics and I think you could
figure out everything else. Physics covers a lot of engineering disciplines.

On 02/14/2022 10:20 AM, sms wrote:
> On 2/14/2022 10:07 AM, Chris wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 02/14/2022 08:58 AM, Alan wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> Because of your degree in psychology?
>>>>
>>>> Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps your degree in virology?
>>>>
>>>> Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.
>>>>
>>>> Did I miss any?
>>>
>>> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.
>>
>> Only if you assume everything is a sphere in a vacuum ;)
>
> Isn't it?
>
> Seriously, add chemistry and statistics to physics and I think you could
> figure out everything else. Physics covers a lot of engineering disciplines.

The final for some Caltech physics class was a question about
bridge-building -- an engineering problem that the students had never
seen anything like before. Hubby did fine. He also does fine with
statistics, EE, and anything else you're interested in. The description
for his second serious job, which I know for a fact because I was there,
was "Become an expert in whatever we need."

--
Cheers, Bev
"I don't mind you peeing in the shower as long as you're actually
taking a shower." -- Marge Simpson

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 09:30:53 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

>> Did I miss any?
>
> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.

I agree with you that a Physics degree trumps all the sciences.
More so than any other degree anyway, even Mathematics.

Not so much the "soft sciences" though, such as Psychology.
Nor the liberal arts, such as "Marketing" (which is my undergrad minor).

While I sub for schools in the STEM curriculum, the last class I actually
_taught_ to educated professionals, was based on this textbook material.
<https://i.postimg.cc/6qdCpK0Y/books11.jpg>

The reason I put the bible there in addition to the textbook is based on the
perspective I have with respect to the electrical engineering curriculum.

Can you imagine even _one_ of the uneducated iKooks having that perspective?
--
College and graduate school provide a perspective the hoi polloi don't have.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 18:07:05 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.
>
> Only if you assume everything is a sphere in a vacuum ;)

The iKooks, being almost completely uneducated, lack factual perspective.
I realize you were joking, and I understand (and agree with) your joke.

But the one thing they never gave us in undergrad physics was any depth on
non-Newtonian Physics such as the deeper realities of Quantum Mechanics.

Sure, we covered the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in college Physics,
and we certainly covered electron field orbitals in college Chemistry, but
we never delved all that deeply into quantum vacuum energy (which is, much
like the Higg's Field, a strangely non-intuitive non-zero amorphous state).

Most of college Physics was, at least for me, Newtonian, where the
perspective that Chris holds held true.

However, when you get to the fact that we're all moving through space at the
speed of light (it's what the "i" is in Physics, and the "j" in EE, and the
square root of minus 1 is, in Mathematics).

Notice my point.
a. The ignorant iKooks have no education so they lack perspective
b. We, who are highly educated, instantly own a _huge_ perspective

How many of you realize, for example, the i, the j, and the square root of
-1 are how each field treats the same entity, differently?
--
The iKooks, being almost completely uneducated, lack factual perspective.
The iKooks, being almost completely uneducated, lack factual perspective.

On 2022-02-14, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/14/2022 08:58 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-02-13 11:20 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 08:16:31 -0800, sms wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, we have people in this country, like our favorite nym-shifting
>>>>> troll, that don't understand science or statistics, and feel compelled
>>>>> to try to spread their ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> The wacko Steve is wrong about what I said since I (many times) said:
>>>> a. Because I _understand_ why people are desperate to get the shot, and,
>>>> b. Because I also _understand_ why people are desperate NOT to get the shot
>>>
>>> Because of your degree in psychology?
>>>
>>> Or is it your degree in statistics and the science of risk?
>>>
>>> Or perhaps your degree in virology?
>>>
>>> Certainly, it's not your degree in electrical engineering.
>>>
>>> Did I miss any?
>>
>> Physics. If you have that you can figure out everything else.
>
> Only if you assume everything is a sphere in a vacuum ;)

The flat Earth handily disproves that assertion.
\s

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:04:16 -0800, sms wrote:

> Anyone can choose not to be vaccinated as long as they
> are willing to face the consequences.

The consequence being they lose their job if they don't acquiesce to the
ignorance and uncontrollably insane fears held by the uneducated minority.

Steve knows absolutely nothing about Covid.
And yet, he _thinks_ he does.

He's like that bank robber with the disappearing ink.

I can predict years in advance that all Steve's proposed solutions will be
a. Too simple to possibly work (they're at the kindergarten level),
b. Usually because they simply remove yet another right you have
c. And, they're always (never not!) based on both ignorance & fear

It's how these people like Steve actually think.
Just watch.
--
Meanwhile, my belief systems are based on actual things called facts.

On 2/14/2022 1:44 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
> However, when you get to the fact that we're all moving through space at the
> speed of light

Wow, pure gibberish.

(it's what the "i" is in Physics, and the "j" in EE, and the
> square root of minus 1 is, in Mathematics).
>
OK, you now have established you may have a high school education.

> Notice my point.
> a. The ignorant iKooks have no education so they lack perspective
> b. We, who are highly educated, instantly own a _huge_ perspective
>

It"s getting obvious where you sit on the d-k curve.

Every word out of Steve's mouth is to demonize people who think logically.

He can't control fact-based people by fear alone.
He can only control them by taking away their rights.

You don't see this?
I do.
--
I can easily predict Steve's arguments even before the thread is opened.

Every word out of Steve's mouth is to demonize people who think logically.

He can't control fact-based people by fear alone.
He can only control them by taking away their rights.

All Steve's solutions encompass these tenets:
a. Fear & ignorance
b. Taking away rights
c. Demonize anyone who doesn't base their belief system on fear.

If you ask me what Steve's stance on gun control is, for example,
I can predict that he'll say those three things in every response.

Just watch.
Ignorance always comes up with these kindergarten unworkable "solutions"
A. Take away your rights
B. So that these people who are filled with fear
C. Are less fearful of you

They demonize people who aren't driven by fear and fear alone.
They can only control logical people by taking away their rights.
--
Just watch.

On 2/14/2022 10:56 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> Whereas denying the vulnerable good health and risking their lives is
> clearly a breach of their human rights.

The facts on Covid-19 infections and deaths can't be denied.

For the U.S.:
The official infection total: 79,406,567
The official number of deaths: 944,435
The official mortality rate: 1.2%

In the U.S., the actual number of Covid deaths is about 25% higher than
the official count. For the world, The Economist's models show Covid
deaths as 2x-4x the official count. However the number of infections is
also much higher than the officially reported number since many people
either don't get tested or do a self-test whose results is never reported.

For the alt-right, screaming about "freedom" and "human rights" when
neither has actually been at risk during the pandemic, is routine. Those
signs being held at the U.S.-Canada border last week highlighted the
need for our educational systems to teach critical thinking skills so we
don't end up with another generation of people that don't understand
math and science. In Silicon Valley it's often easy to forget that not
all parts of the country have the benefit of science-based education.

It used to be that uneducated people were embarrassed to reveal their
lack of knowledge. Now their mantra is "my ignorance is just as good as
your knowledge." They don't believe in science or statistics. They rely
on "alternative facts," to justify their behavior.

Fortunately, while the alt-right makes a lot of noise, the actual number
of people that fall for their rhetoric is relatively small.
Unfortunately, it doesn't take a great many super-spreader events to
cause an exponential increase in infections and deaths, so their
ignorance often has a disproportionate negative effect.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“The Greatest Shortcoming of the Human Race Is Man’s Inability To
Understand the Exponential Function.” ― Albert A. Bartlett

“Too bad that so many people are making so much noise just to hear
themselves that no one is listening anymore.” — William Matthew Kelllert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/14/2022 12:28 PM, joe wrote:

<snip>

> It"s getting obvious where you sit on the d-k curve.

It seems like every newsgroup has at least one person that sits very low
on the Dunning–Kruger curve. "Andy/Harry/Arlen" gets the honors in this
group.

For those unfamiliar with the Dunning-Kruger effect, it is defined as:
"a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in
a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own
knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or
to the performance of their peers or of people in general."

In message <suef7h$1nr8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Every word out of Steve's mouth is to demonize people who think logically.
>
> He can't control fact-based people by fear alone.
> He can only control them by taking away their rights.
>
> You don't see this?

No, I don't.

Nor do I see much evidence that you think logically.

You just keep spouting things like "Fear" and "Taking away their rights",
as if they're slogans that must be mindlessly repeated.

David

On 2/14/2022 2:47 PM, David Higton wrote:

<snip>

> You just keep spouting things like "Fear" and "Taking away their rights",
> as if they're slogans that must be mindlessly repeated.
>
> David

My advice to Arlen/Harry/Andy is to try to understand that lying about
the realities about the Covid-19 pandemic, vaccinations, masks, etc., is
not serving him well.

When you have the best scientists, epidemiologists, infectious disease
specialists, and statisticians, contradicting every alternative fact
that he comes up with, it doesn't make sense for him to continue to push
a fact-free political agenda. Arlen/Harry/Andy should gracefully admit
his mistakes, move on, and confine his posts to things that he understands.

No one's human rights have been taken away or violated. The only freedom
that's been lost is the freedom to act irresponsibly during a global
health crisis.

If Fox News, OAN, the New York Post, etc. _and_ the Internet, were
around the 1950s we'd still be fighting Polio.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want
their illusions destroyed.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 1/31/2022 8:09 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <staalf$1uik$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Covid has only killed 1/375 of all Americans. In 11 days, it killed more
>>> people than all the murders in ANY year. It has been the largest single
>>> cause of death of police officers in the USA.
>>
>> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people overall.

Covid has already killed .24% of ALL Americans.

800,000/330,000,000 = .002424242424

So maybe 1.2% that of ALL INFECTED Americans.

>
> cfr is about 1-2%, depending on various factors.
>
>>
>> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?
>
> that is very much false.

On 1/31/2022 10:20 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-01-31 7:50 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:42:03 -0800, Bob F wrote:
>>
>>> Covid has only killed 1/375 of all Americans. In 11 days, it killed more
>>> people than all the murders in ANY year. It has been the largest single
>>> cause of death of police officers in the USA.
>>
>> Nobody ever didn't say that Covid is fatal to about 0.2% of people
>> overall.

..24% of ALL Americans so far.

>>> No problem at all.
>>
>> Are you aware that most people are innately immune to Covid or not?
>
> That is one of the most inane statements you have ever made.

Am 14.02.22 um 22:58 schrieb sms:
> On 2/14/2022 10:56 AM, Chris wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Whereas denying the vulnerable good health and risking their lives is
>> clearly a breach of their human rights.
>
> The facts on Covid-19 infections and deaths can't be denied.

You are stupid Troll. What is the connection of your post to Android or
mobile OSes in general?

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 14:22:09 -0800, sms wrote:

> For those unfamiliar with the Dunning-Kruger effect, it is defined as:
> "a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in
> a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own
> knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or
> to the performance of their peers or of people in general."

Jesus Christ Steve, you are a classic moron.
*You can't even state what the DK effect is with any accuracy at all.*

Hasn't any of you utter morons ever _read_ the seminal DK papers?
I have.

You haven't.
That's obvious from what you wrote.

You're a moron, Steve.
You have no concept of what the DK effect is and, in fact, you got it wrong.

EVERYONE is on the DK scale since it measures _all_ skill levels.

It's simply a cognitive agreement or dissonance that relates to people's own
assessment of their skills as compared to an objective measurement of
skills.

Since people have skills at _all_ levels, the DK effect charts _all_ people.
--
Steve is an utter moron because he doesn't even know what the DK effect is.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 14:28:43 -0600, joe wrote:

>> However, when you get to the fact that we're all moving through space at the
>> speed of light
>
> Wow, pure gibberish.

Jesus Christ.
Have you no education at all?

You utter morons have no factual perspective on _anything_ whatsoever.
Even Steve flatly denied Einstein's theory of relativity even exists.

Who the hell is _that_ stupid?
Nobody but this "joe" (whom I suspect is Steve) denies relativity.

I suspect this "joe" is our own Steve, but nonetheless, if it is Steve (or
even if it isn't), this "joe" proves me correct _every_ time he posts.

It's only utter gibberish to ignorant people.
Google it.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=we+move+through+time+at+the+speed+of+light>

Yet again, _every_ post from these ignorant people _proves_ me correct.
a. I make a statement about Physics (in response to The Real Bev)
b. In that Physics statement, I mention that we move thru time at c
c. This moron "joe" claims that is "pure gibberish"

And yet, it's how Einstein's theory of relativity works.

My point is yet again proven that all these people are completely ignorant.
They don't even _realize_ they're ignorant.

In fact, every fact you give them, they claim is "utter gibberish" in fact.
WTF?

Who is _that_ stupid?
Well, um, they are.

*We All Travel Through Spacetime at the Speed of Light*
<https://medium.com/predict/we-all-travel-through-spacetime-at-the-speed-of-light-d60cb389dfc2>

Again, they prove me right.
They have _no education_ at all.
None.
Nada.
Zip.
Niente.

They have no perspective on _anything_ whatsoever.
Even Steve denied Einstein's theory of relativity.

Note that I don't care that people like Steve are completely ignorant.
Most people know nothing about anything they think they know about.

I only care when ignorant people like Steve try to force intelligent people
to do what the ignorant people do, because people like Steve do that.

The more ignorant they are - the more they want to take away your rights so
that these ignorant people like Steve is can control our activities.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 22:47:55 GMT, David Higton wrote:

> Nor do I see much evidence that you think logically.

And yet it's _you_ who hasn't provided even a _single_ cite for your claims.
Not me.
You.

BTW, I get it that you're likely just "Steve" pretending to be David Higton.
(Same as "joe" which allows Steve to then _respond_ to his own posts.)

But it doesn't matter since the fact remains as I have stated it logically:
*Not once in this thread have you (aka David Higton) provided a cite*

Not even once.
Everything you've claimed, so far, is pure bullshit.

And that is proven by the fact I asked you for cites, & you never gave any.
Because it's _you_ who can't back up your outlandish claims.

You demonize anyone who disagrees with your purely imaginary belief systems.
You _hate_ me because you have no adult response to the facts I provided.

In fact, you _hate_ me because I _do_ think logically.
You base your entire belief system on fear and fear alone.

And you _hate_ that you can't _control_ people like me, Steve, on pure fear.