sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/27/2022 1:18 PM, Rob wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>>>
>>>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>>>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>>>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>>>
>>> I would tend to buy a multi-way socket strip in your home country, cut the
>>> plug off, and fit whatever plug suits the country you're going to. Then you
>>> have an N-way adapter rather than a travel adapter that never fits properly,
>>> and you can plug in all your stuff in one go.
>>
>> Of course then you need to verify that your equipment works on the
>> 230VAC/50Hz used in the EU. That will likely not be a problem for
>> a phone charger or laptop supply, but do not connect your hairdryer
>> or shaver!
>
> It's very rare to find an electric razor charger that doesn't work from
> 100-240V; there's a switching power supply in the plug that handles the
> different AC voltage just fine.
>
> Handheld hair dryers often have a switch to go between 120 and 240, even
> many inexpensive ones, i.e. <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000094ZDX>.

They're useless. Rarely dry very effectively. Same with travel irons.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/27/2022 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>
>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>
> I use this one: <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799997576248.html>.

That's what I call clunky. It won't fit well in many of more awkward
locations.

I use one that's this size when I travel to the EU:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07G475W42/

Small and convenient.

In article <t6sbbs$bqa$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >>>
> >>> Of course then you need to verify that your equipment works on the
> >>> 230VAC/50Hz used in the EU. That will likely not be a problem for
> >>> a phone charger or laptop supply, but do not connect your hairdryer
> >>> or shaver!
> >>
> >> It's very rare to find an electric razor charger that doesn't work from
> >> 100-240V; there's a switching power supply in the plug that handles the
> >> different AC voltage just fine.
> >
> > the voltage is only part of the problem. the other, which affects
> > motors, is line frequency (50hz v. 60hz) because most devices use less
> > expensive synchronous motors.
>
> Not relevant.

it's very relevant.

> Electrical devices work globally without problems from
> 110-240 Volt and all frequencies.

some do, but not all.

devices with motors, in particular, synchronous motors, whose speed is
a function of line frequency, will have problems, sometimes serious.
the speed will be different and it can overheat, possibly burn out.

> Chargers and devices are bult for this
> for decades. And that not only applies to razors.

chargers, computers, etc. do not have motors and usually have a
universal power supply that will work just about anywhere. the only
issue is the physical plug, which is easily resolved.

some devices have a physical switch for mains voltage, and if it's set
to 120v and connected to 240v, it will likely be damaged. some devices
do not have any switch and can also be damaged.

> Again a completely virtual discussion.

no. it's a very real discussion.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2022 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>>
>>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>>
>> I use this one: <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799997576248.html>.
>
> That's what I call clunky. It won't fit well in many of more awkward
> locations.

Also it is unwise to buy AC-powered equipment on Aliexpress, especially
when it has weird attachments to adapt between plug standards.

The mechanical construction tends to be awful and it can be dangerous
to use, e.g. because the parts come apart when you try to unplug it.
(or else it could have bad primary-secondary insulation or it could
catch fire)

At least when you buy a charger in a European store in the city,
you have more chance to get a reasonably safe device.

Am 28.05.22 um 11:13 schrieb nospam:
> In article <t6sbbs$bqa$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course then you need to verify that your equipment works on the
>>>>> 230VAC/50Hz used in the EU. That will likely not be a problem for
>>>>> a phone charger or laptop supply, but do not connect your hairdryer
>>>>> or shaver!
>>>>
>>>> It's very rare to find an electric razor charger that doesn't work from
>>>> 100-240V; there's a switching power supply in the plug that handles the
>>>> different AC voltage just fine.
>>>
>>> the voltage is only part of the problem. the other, which affects
>>> motors, is line frequency (50hz v. 60hz) because most devices use less
>>> expensive synchronous motors.
>>
>> Not relevant.
>
> it's very relevant.
>
>> Electrical devices work globally without problems from
>> 110-240 Volt and all frequencies.
>
> some do, but not all.

All do.
Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 28.05.22 um 11:13 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <t6sbbs$bqa$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course then you need to verify that your equipment works on the
>>>>>> 230VAC/50Hz used in the EU. That will likely not be a problem for
>>>>>> a phone charger or laptop supply, but do not connect your hairdryer
>>>>>> or shaver!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's very rare to find an electric razor charger that doesn't work from
>>>>> 100-240V; there's a switching power supply in the plug that handles the
>>>>> different AC voltage just fine.
>>>>
>>>> the voltage is only part of the problem. the other, which affects
>>>> motors, is line frequency (50hz v. 60hz) because most devices use less
>>>> expensive synchronous motors.
>>>
>>> Not relevant.
>>
>> it's very relevant.
>>
>>> Electrical devices work globally without problems from
>>> 110-240 Volt and all frequencies.
>>
>> some do, but not all.
>
> All do.
> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.

It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
travel inventory that is not that flexible.

Am 28.05.22 um 00:38 schrieb sms:
> Handheld hair dryers often have a switch to go between 120 and 240, even
> many inexpensive ones, i.e. <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000094ZDX>.

Decades ago that was automated.

With my 7mm cut I do not need a hairdryer. Before I had grabbed it my
hair is dry.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 28.05.22 um 11:36 schrieb Rob:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> All do.
>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>
> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
> travel inventory that is not that flexible.

Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 28.05.22 um 11:36 schrieb Rob:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> All do.
>>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>>
>> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
>> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
>> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
>> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
>> travel inventory that is not that flexible.
>
> Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?

"More than 20 years ago" they actually made devices that kept working.
The trend of things to fail within a couple of years started later.

When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
adaption to power line voltage.

In article <t6spqb$20m$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >> Electrical devices work globally without problems from
> >> 110-240 Volt and all frequencies.
> >
> > some do, but not all.
>
> All do.

nope. not all, especially stuff with motors, as already explained.

> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.

yes it very definitely is, especially china.

> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.

thanks for letting people know.

Rob wrote:

>>>> All do.
>>>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>>>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>>>
>>> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
>>> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
>>> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
>>> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
>>> travel inventory that is not that flexible.
>>
>> Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?
>
> "More than 20 years ago" they actually made devices that kept working.
> The trend of things to fail within a couple of years started later.
>
> When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
> a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
> year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
> works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
> adaption to power line voltage.

Whether or not something works at 120/230VAC or 50/60Hz has nothing to do
with how old it is nor what it does (within reason) but how it's designed.

Am 28.05.22 um 11:47 schrieb Rob:
> When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
> a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
> year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
> works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
> adaption to power line voltage.

Not in Europe or elsewhere outside the US or Canada.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 5/28/2022 2:47 AM, Rob wrote:

<snip>

> "More than 20 years ago" they actually made devices that kept working.
> The trend of things to fail within a couple of years started later.
>
> When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
> a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
> year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
> works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
> adaption to power line voltage.

Even now, high wattage dual voltage items, with heating elements, like
travel irons and hair dryers will usually not be automatic, they'll have
a switch. For devices with switching power supplies, like cell phone
chargers, electric razor chargers, and laptop chargers, they don't care
what the incoming voltage is so it's rare to find one that is not marked
"100-240V."

In high-wattage heating devices, when you switch from 110-120V to
220-240V it just uses a diode that chops off the bottom of the sine wave
so you're operating the heating element at half the voltage, see
<https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/diode39.gif>.

They've just built in the circuitry that you find in simple,
transformerless, converter devices like
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1KWMQT> which has a switch to select
between adapt and convert. Set the switch to convert and it uses a diode
to convert the full wave 240VACrms to half-wave 240VACrms (120VACrms). A
heating element doesn't care about half-wave AC. The motor inside a hair
dryer is a small DC motor that runs off rectified AC tapped off the
heating element so it doesn't care about the half-wave AC either.

There may also be a mechanical interlock on the high/low setting switch
instead. The high-setting (lower-resistance coil) may be locked-out when
switched to 240V allowing only the low-setting (higher-resistance coil)
to be used with the higher voltage, resulting in higher wattage at the
low setting.

Remember that a heating coil will operate at 1/4 the wattage at 120V
versus 240V. A 2500 watt heating element designed for 220-240V has about
a 20 ohm coil. At 240V will draw about 12 amps. Operated at 120V it will
draw about 6 amps and produce about 720 watts since you've halved both
the voltage and the current. Heating devices designed for 220-240V can
be plugged into a 110V-120V outlet without any converter but they will
work poorly. Heating devices designed for 120V but operated at 240V will
often lose the "low" setting.

In message <t6td92$53d$2@dont-email.me>
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> In high-wattage heating devices, when you switch from 110-120V to
> 220-240V it just uses a diode that chops off the bottom of the sine wave
> so you're operating the heating element at half the voltage, see
> <https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/diode39.gif>.

If you run a heating element like that, it's comsuming four times the power
for half the time, i.e. an overall doubling of the power.

David

In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 27 May 2022 15:38:11 -0700, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>On 5/27/2022 1:18 PM, Rob wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>>>
>>>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>>>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>>>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>>>
>>> I would tend to buy a multi-way socket strip in your home country, cut the
>>> plug off, and fit whatever plug suits the country you're going to. Then you
>>> have an N-way adapter rather than a travel adapter that never fits properly,
>>> and you can plug in all your stuff in one go.
>>
>> Of course then you need to verify that your equipment works on the
>> 230VAC/50Hz used in the EU. That will likely not be a problem for
>> a phone charger or laptop supply, but do not connect your hairdryer
>> or shaver!
>
>It's very rare to find an electric razor charger that doesn't work from
>100-240V; there's a switching power supply in the plug that handles the
>different AC voltage just fine.

I'm sure Rob was not talking about a rechargable razor but one that
plugs into the wall directly. It's not like one needs to walk down the
street or even go to another room while he's shaving.
>
>Handheld hair dryers often have a switch to go between 120 and 240, even
>many inexpensive ones, i.e. <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000094ZDX>.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 28 May 2022 11:41:23 +0200, Joerg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

>Am 28.05.22 um 11:36 schrieb Rob:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> All do.
>>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>>
>> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
>> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
>> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
>> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
>> travel inventory that is not that flexible.

Of course. Who buys new appliances every time they take a vacation?

>
>Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?

Yes. Do things more than 20 years old not work in your part of the
world? I can see why you try to distinguish the US and Canada from your
part of the world.

In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 27 May 2022 13:21:35 -0700, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>On 5/27/2022 11:31 AM, Theo wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>>
>>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>>
>> I would tend to buy a multi-way socket strip in your home country, cut the
>> plug off, and fit whatever plug suits the country you're going to. Then you
>> have an N-way adapter rather than a travel adapter that never fits properly,
>> and you can plug in all your stuff in one go.
>
>LOL, you think like me! <https://i.imgur.com/5Gf39Gg.jpg> is what I
>fabricated for the UK and to use on airplanes where the UK socket pins
>tend to not be worn out so the plug stays in.
>
>I wanted a small power strip so I got the three outlet ones. Amazon had
>a good deal on them at about $2 each, but they discontinued them. Ikea
>has them
><https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/koppla-3-outlet-power-strip-grounded-white-00086428/>.
>
>I need to make some up for Europe as well. Once the pandemic is over, if
>it is ever over, it'll be time to make up for the lost years of travel.

Heck, I just take 3 plug adapters but I only use one and an American
extension cord with 3 outlets. They have american sockets so I don't
need more than one.

Of course ttime, I didn't notice before I left that the plug on the
laptop charger is polarized, why, I do not know, since no metal parts
are showing anywhere. And the plug won't fit in my extension cord that
is about 30 years old. Had I planned ahead, I would have ground the
wide prong on the plug narrower or maybe brought a different extesion
cord (but the newer cords I have are thicker and heavier not because of
the copper but becaue of the rubber.

Fortunately where I'm staying he already has a power strip next to the
desk I'm using 2 of my foreign plug adapters.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 28 May 2022 11:16:52 +0200, Rob
<nomail@example.com> wrote:

>Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2022 10:37 AM, Chris wrote:
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, taking along a plug adapter for whatever country you're
>>>>> visiting is standard operating procedure for experienced travelers.
>>>>
>>>> For a smartphone I'd argue it's better to buy a local charger rather than
>>>> use your home charger + adapter. It's much less clunky. The EU uses the
>>>> same (or close enough not to matter) plug so only one is required.
>>>
>>> I use this one: <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255799997576248.html>.
>>
>> That's what I call clunky. It won't fit well in many of more awkward
>> locations.
>
>Also it is unwise to buy AC-powered equipment on Aliexpress, especially
>when it has weird attachments to adapt between plug standards.
>
>The mechanical construction tends to be awful and it can be dangerous
>to use, e.g. because the parts come apart when you try to unplug it.
>(or else it could have bad primary-secondary insulation or it could
>catch fire)
>
>At least when you buy a charger in a European store in the city,
>you have more chance to get a reasonably safe device.

Anyone can buy more expensive accessories. It takes a real man to face
electocution.

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 26 May 2022 10:01:05 -0700, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>I have a feeling that you'd be hard-pressed to convince him to do what
>is more logical, buying a cheap unlocked smart phone for $100-130 and
>then a prepaid SIM card.

The problem with cheap new phones is one that David and Chris refer to,
is that many of them don't have bands 1 or 3 which are used in Europe.

I learned the hard way that if you get a Global model, they will it
seesm so far have 1,2,3, and 4 or perhaps I've forgotten one that had
only 3 of them.

>I.e.
>https://www.bestbuy.com/site/blu-v50-32gb-unlocked-black/6428098.p?skuId=6428098
>supports B1, B3, B4, B5, B7, B12, B17, B28.

I'll admit if I had more patience, I could look up the cellular
providers where he's going and see if they have these B bands. But I
don't and I'm sticking with 1,2,3, and 4. (and I can't find where it
says "supports B1, B3, B4, B5, B7, B12, B17, B28")

I actually had a Blu phone for my first smart-phone trip out of the
country, and it worked fine in the US, and fine on the trip for phone
calls, but for data it was so slow I couldn't use it, because it didn't
have the right 3G band iirc. I wasn't used to using much so it didn't
bother me much, but one thing I noticed was trying to take a picture of
a sign in Greek so google translate would translate it, and it just
timed out.

(Also, I had 2 other apps for Zoom photos and they had no advertising on
the Blu phone but when I got a better phone, with more bands, I saw the
advertising, so that worked better with the inferior phone)

As is typical, the Bestbuy ad above gives lots of details under overview
and features, but not what bands it has. (Well, you found it but I
can't) The V50 is not on gsmarena, even though it has over 300 models
of Blu phones. It says it's Model:V0510WW, but that doesn't help
either.

Blu sells primarily to the US and Latin America, which uses pretty much
the same bands the US does.

As it turned out, the on/off switch of the Blu phone broke when I was 2
miles from the airport on my way home at the end of the trip. So the
phone did not last long. I still had one phone call to make and I was
able to stuff a key or something into the on/off hole that was left
after the tab broke off.
>
>But since you can't guarantee it will all work, or tell him where to buy
>a SIM, etc., I'd forget the whole thing.

I can tell him more than one place to buy a sim.

>On 5/25/2022 4:58 PM, micky wrote:
>> Will old phone work alright for modest user?
>>
>> I have a friend going on a european vacation for about 3 weeks. He was
>> going to do as he's done in the past, rent a semi-smart phone, and I
>> think the cheapest is 6 dollars a day, or 120 dollars.

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 26 May 2022 06:18:39 +0100, David Taylor
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/05/2022 00:58, micky wrote:
>> Will old phone work alright for modest user?
>>
>> I have a friend going on a european vacation for about 3 weeks. He was
>> going to do as he's done in the past, rent a semi-smart phone, and I
>> think the cheapest is 6 dollars a day, or 120 dollars.
>>
>> I'm trying to convince him to buy a second-hand smart phone, so he'll
>> still have it when he gets back, but I'll look pretty stupid and he'll
>> be greatly inconvenienced if I talk him into the wrong thing.
>
>Check that anything you buy will work in Europe.
>Frequency bands may differ.

Yes, I could have gone into a little more detail. The newish
second-hand phones are, I think, often cheap enough originally that they
don't work in Europe. Or some of their submodels are, and the ad doesn't
say which submodel.

The ones that were expensive originally usually have loads of bands for
every submodel (or they specify the submodel and it does) but they are
often using a version two or three steps older than current.

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 26 May 2022 07:17:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris
<ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> Will old phone work alright for modest user?
>>
>> I have a friend going on a european vacation for about 3 weeks. He was
>> going to do as he's done in the past, rent a semi-smart phone, and I
>> think the cheapest is 6 dollars a day, or 120 dollars.
>
>Why? Does he not already have a mobile phone he can use?

He has a Jitterbug flip phone from Lively, probably Flip2
https://www.lively.com/phones/jitterbug-flip2/
He had problems on a previous trip so thought he needed a different
phone. After I posted here, he decided to ask them if it will work in
Europe. But he needs to ask about bands too and if it will work where
he's going. I called him to make sure he didn't buy something with
inadequate bands.

I've talked to him agani and he apparently likes that it's simple, the
buttons are big, and SMS seems to be correct he's reluctant to change
his plans. Also when they are together his wife has a smart phone if
they need one. They do different things some of the time on their
vacations however.

So the rest of my answer doesn't apply to him

>> I'm trying to convince him to buy a second-hand smart phone, so he'll
>> still have it when he gets back, but I'll look pretty stupid and he'll
>> be greatly inconvenienced if I talk him into the wrong thing.
>
>Pretty sure you can get a decent new phone for $120. Check that it'll work
>in the EU.
>
>> For example. what if it's Android 7.0 (Nougat), upgradable to Android
>> 9.0 (Pie), One UI. Will it refuse to do things he needs/wants?
>> He's not going to do anyhting fancy, since now he does nothing but make
>> local phone calls. But lets add google maps, whatsapp and maybe
>> webbrowser. Is android 7 or 9 like windows 95, that it won't run many
>> apps and even standard programs dont' run anymore, so google maps may
>> not work, or whatsapp?
>
>Not sure about specific apps, but yes. Newer apps will not support older
>versions of android, although it's up to individual developers so hard to
>be specific.

You are the only one who addressed my question. :-) Your answer
reminded me that the ads on play.google.com usually say what version of
Android is needed, but.... the most important one, whatsapp, doesn't
say. they seem to have changed the format of the playstore page?
Several apps I use seem to have less info about them iirc.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 28 May 2022 10:00:52 -0400, Nic
<Nic@none.net> wrote:

>Rob wrote:
>
>>>>> All do.
>>>>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>>>>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>>>>
>>>> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
>>>> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
>>>> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
>>>> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
>>>> travel inventory that is not that flexible.
>>>
>>> Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?
>>
>> "More than 20 years ago" they actually made devices that kept working.
>> The trend of things to fail within a couple of years started later.
>>
>> When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
>> a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
>> year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
>> works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
>> adaption to power line voltage.
>
>Whether or not something works at 120/230VAC or 50/60Hz has nothing to do
>with how old it is nor what it does (within reason) but how it's designed.

Yeah, but there is your "within reason" and my "within reason". If I
went back to shaving, I'd use the razor I bought 50 years ago. It still
works. I have table radios I use from the 60's and tvs from the 70s.
I still use my Hallicrafters short wave that my older cousin gave me,
made in the 40's I think, about 80 years old. The extension cord I use
when I travel is about 30 years old (and I checked, the "rubber" is
good.)

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without. Or buy new once
something actually breaks and can't be fixed.

On 5/28/2022 7:00 AM, Nic wrote:

<snip>

> Whether or not something works at 120/230VAC or 50/60Hz has nothing to do
> with how old it is nor what it does (within reason) but how it's designed.

True. And there have been dual voltage travel appliances for a LOT
longer than 20 years.

Now that most hotels have irons and hair dryers available there's not a
lot of need to carry your own small appliances, at least in the U.S..

I often bring along an immersion heater when traveling so I can make tea
or coffee in the room, though many hotels now have a microwave oven and
coffee maker so often it's not often necessary.

The immersion heaters designed for the U.S. are awful, generally 200-300
watts. If you plug one into a 240V outlet they will be 1200 watts and
will work just fine <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZSYKJPR>, just be
extra careful that they are always fully immersed in water, there's
little room for error.

I bought a 2500 watt/220V immersion heater
<https://i.imgur.com/lpHVxEe.jpeg> from
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800967693111.html>. In the U.S., at
120V, it draws about 5.2A and 625W so the coil resistance is about 23
ohms. It boils water pretty quickly, 16 ounces in under five minutes.
I've never tried it at 220V/240V.

According to micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>:
>Yes, I could have gone into a little more detail. The newish
>second-hand phones are, I think, often cheap enough originally that they
>don't work in Europe. Or some of their submodels are, and the ad doesn't
>say which submodel.

Cheap phones are usually locked to one network. While it is possible
to unlock them, in my experience the people selling them often don't
know what that means and at least once I got a phone that turned out
to be locked.

One time on a trip to Europe my phone disappeared between the time I parked
in the airport garage and the time I checked in. So when I got to where
I was going, which was Copenhagen, I went to a mall near the airport, found
an electronics store, and in about 15 minutes had a working phone.

That's what I'd do.

If they want a phone like a Jitterbug, I think they're out of luck. Those phones only
work on a single carrier inside the U.S.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Nic <Nic@none.net> wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
>>>>> All do.
>>>>> Such cheap stuff is not sold outside the USA or Canada.
>>>>> The world is much bigger than the USA and Canada combined.
>>>>
>>>> It depends not so much on where it is sold, more on WHEN it was sold.
>>>> When you buy something new today it often has a 100-240VAC switchmode
>>>> powersupply. But when an elderly couple from the USA goes on a trip
>>>> to Europe, I would not rule out that they still have stuff in their
>>>> travel inventory that is not that flexible.
>>>
>>> Then they bought it more than 20 year ago. And these devices still work?
>>
>> "More than 20 years ago" they actually made devices that kept working.
>> The trend of things to fail within a couple of years started later.
>>
>> When you have "travel inventory" like a portable coffee maker or
>> a travel hair dryer, stuff that you only use a couple of weeks per
>> year and then store away, it is not at all unlikely that it still
>> works after many years. And likely that it does not have automatic
>> adaption to power line voltage.
>
> Whether or not something works at 120/230VAC or 50/60Hz has nothing to do
> with how old it is nor what it does (within reason) but how it's designed.

Sure, but "how it is designed" depends a LOT on "how old it is"!

In the old days, stuff had an iron-core transformer with a primary
winding specified for the mains voltage. To have 110/220 operation
you need to have two primary windings in series/parallel operation
using a switch.
But nowadays, switchmode powersupplies with wide 100-240 operating
range are used instead, without requiring a switch. They did not
exist 30 years ago, and back then when you had a switchmode powersupply
it was either limited to like 100-130 or 220-240, or it had a switch
to select between those two.

Resistive equipment like a heater requires similar switching, even now.