On 5/30/2022 2:05 PM, sms wrote:

> I think that part of the issue in 110V/120V countries is that because
> devices use more current than the same wattage device designed for
> 220V/240V, there was a need for a plug design with as much surface area
> as possible. You get a lot more current carrying capacity with a thin
> flat blade than with a round prong, for the same amount of metal (unless
> the round pins are hollow) Remember that the electricity flows only on
> the surface of a conductor.

What do you think the skin depth is at 60 Hz?

On 5/30/2022 12:29 PM, Rob wrote:

<snip>

> There is some discussion about the design of American plugs being
> more sound, but on the other hand the typical Amercan plug/socket are
> so flimsy that this probably does not hold up in a direct 1:1 comparison
> of American style and European style plugs.

The contacts inside cheap NEMA-1 and NEMA-5 receptacles lose their
springiness and become loose after too few plug insert/remove cycles.

You can buy commercial and industrial grade receptacles that are better
quality but they are 5x the price. Just as you can buy better quality
wall switches for more money.

Rob wrote:
> Ironically, in the USA this whole thing was an afterthought that was
> introduced only AFTER a certain type of device had already left the
> scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where the chassis was directly
> connected to one of the mains leads, so it had to be kept in an
> insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices were kind of dangerous
> when the owner would modify or damage them, e.g. to connect an external
> loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume knob broke off.

Like all tube radios in those days, the transformerless types needed
cooling, and therefore had a hardboard backplate with perforations,
making it quite easy to stick a knitting needle into the radio's inner
sanctum. Sure enough, that was strictly forbidden, but very few parents
could explain to their kids why exactly.

> And when I first encountered American (and Japanese) powerplugs, I found
> them rather dangerous. They can be pulled partly from the receptacle
> and the pins can be touched by tiny fingers or at least by something
> like a knife. European plugs do not have that problem.
> (certainly not the current ones; 60 years ago there were some plugs
> in use where it could happen)

60+ years ago we had lots of other electrical stuff where you could
easily touch live surfaces with a finger.

-p

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 30 May 2022 10:28:17 +0200, Rob
<nomail@example.com> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on 29 May 2022 14:54:46 +0100 (BST), Theo
>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> LOL, you think like me! <https://i.imgur.com/5Gf39Gg.jpg> is what I
>>>> fabricated for the UK and to use on airplanes where the UK socket pins
>>>> tend to not be worn out so the plug stays in.
>>>
>>>What's going on about the assymmetric hot/neutral pins? One seems to have a
>>>larger slot than the other. Does one move to accommodate different spacing
>>>of pins? But I can't think of another country that has flat parallel pins
>>
>> All of Latin America? IOW, the whole western hemisphere.
>>
>>>(Europlug are round, China has them angled, UK are too square)
>>
>> But I don't know why polarlized plugs are used on somethign that has no
>> metal parts showing, like the power supply cord/power brick for my Acer
>> laptop.
>
>It apparently is part of some tradition.

Tradition is very important. There is even a song about it! If I come
to agree with you, I'll stop complaining about it.

> In continental Europe we
>do not have polarized plugs at all, and never had. We just live with
>the fact that you never know which side is hot and which is neutral,

LOL

>and all pluggable devices used here are constructed in such a way that
>they operate safely no matter which way they are plugged in.
>
>Ironically, in the USA this whole thing was an afterthought that was
>introduced only AFTER a certain type of device had already left the
>scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where the chassis was directly

Yes, I hadn't thought of that. Was there nothing still made where the
polarized plug mattered. What about metal-case power tools? In fact
aren't they still made?

>connected to one of the mains leads, so it had to be kept in an
>insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices were kind of dangerous
>when the owner would modify or damage them, e.g. to connect an external
>loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume knob broke off.

Yes, I have several such radios, the oldest of which I remember we had
at least as early as 1952 (because I don't remember too much before I
was 5), maybe even 1945 when my parents got married.

And it has a bakelite case that covered 5 sides (except for the bottom)
and has a molded in handle for the top. It has 4 little legs, but the
bottom of the back got chipped 1" wide by 1/2" high, enough that when
sitting on a little metal table we had with decorative sections missing,
the rear legs went through those missing areas. I don't remember
getting a shock from the table, but the kitchen counter was next to it
and in pre-1954, they didn't know how to make a formica edge to a
formica counter, so it was metal. And whenever I touched that, or maybe
only when the radio was on?, I got a tingle. I never bothered my
mother about it and she never seemed to notice, but now I think we
should have done something. The sink was in the same counter, with
water.

I still have the radio and I'm pretty sure it still works**. A big red
translucent plastic tuning needle, and a light at the top, just to look
nice I guess, or maybe for times when all the lights are off and you
need to find the radio. **Maybe next time it's plugged in, I'll check
the voltage on the chassis.

>However, those were all fitted with symmetrical plugs that you could
>plug in either way. Just like here in Europe.
>
>And when I first encountered American (and Japanese) powerplugs, I found
>them rather dangerous. They can be pulled partly from the receptacle
>and the pins can be touched by tiny fingers or at least by something
>like a knife. European plugs do not have that problem.
>(certainly not the current ones; 60 years ago there were some plugs
>in use where it could happen)

sms wrote:

>> There is some discussion about the design of American plugs being
>> more sound, but on the other hand the typical Amercan plug/socket are
>> so flimsy that this probably does not hold up in a direct 1:1 comparison
>> of American style and European style plugs.
>
> The contacts inside cheap NEMA-1 and NEMA-5 receptacles lose their
> springiness and become loose after too few plug insert/remove cycles.
>
> You can buy commercial and industrial grade receptacles that are better
> quality but they are 5x the price. Just as you can buy better quality
> wall switches for more money.

I keep a box of these inexpensive $3 HF replacement connectors around.

female
<https://www.harborfreight.com/125v-15-amp-female-plug-connector-63125.html>

male
<https://www.harborfreight.com/125v-15-amp-male-plug-connector-63126.html>

Although I just noticed the "Leviton" male is less than a dollar more.

male
<https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515PV-125V-Grounding-Orange/dp/B007QW7BW0/>

And the "Leviton" brand female only a couple dollars more:
female
<https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515CV-Grounding-Outlet-Orange/dp/B007QWAP1O/>

As with most highly regulated replacement parts, you won't find a bad one.

Set of Starelo brand male/female electrical connectors for $4 each:
<https://www.amazon.com/STARELO-Electrical-Replacement-Connector-Industrial/dp/B08C76KJF7/>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

sms wrote:

> Remember that the electricity flows only on
> the surface of a conductor.

Steve is an electrical engineer but he may have forgotten that this skin
effect is small when using copper wire at the frequencies & distances we're
talking about.

We could dig up the formula for the skin depth, but it's not gonna be
something that matters for copper connections in an electrical socket.

Almost all the current flows within about a half inch in copper at these
frequencies, as I recall (from many years ago), which for a round wire
means it would have to be more than an inch thick to make _any_ difference.

Bear in mind I'm also an EE where it's interesting how _different_ the
various fields are, and that most EE's are NOT trained in electrical
distribution although all have basic training in the physics involved.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

On 5/30/2022 1:28 AM, Rob wrote:

> Ironically, in the USA this whole thing [polarized plugs] was an
> afterthought that was introduced only AFTER a certain type of device
> had already left the scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where
> the chassis was directly connected to one of the mains leads, so it
> had to be kept in an insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices
> were kind of dangerous when the owner would modify or damage them,
> e.g. to connect an external loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume
> knob broke off.

There were other dangers also. A product could be manufactured or later
become defective causing a hot case. I recall that a guy was once
electrocuted using an electric hand drill that had a metal case.
Course the fact that he was standing barefoot on damp ground may have
helped. Nowadays all my drills have plastic cases so that particular
problem has likely been solved anyway.

I worked in a TV shop in the 50s and got zapped by more than one hot
chassis. Lived to tell the tale. Also go zapped by many a picture tube
anode. In those cases I was sometimes injured, not by the shock but by
losing skin on my arm on the sharp chassis parts when it involuntarily
jerked backwards out of the cabinet...

On 5/31/2022 4:18 AM, micky wrote:

> whenever I touched that [a metal table], or maybe only when the
> radio was on?, I got a tingle.

I still get a slight tingle when I'm using a heating pad on my back and
at the same time happen to slide my finger across the metal case of this
(or my other) laptop when its charging. And if I was calibrated I'd
guess that tingle was at a 60 Hz rate?

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 5/30/2022 1:28 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>> Ironically, in the USA this whole thing [polarized plugs] was an
>> afterthought that was introduced only AFTER a certain type of device
>> had already left the scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where
>> the chassis was directly connected to one of the mains leads, so it
>> had to be kept in an insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices
>> were kind of dangerous when the owner would modify or damage them,
>> e.g. to connect an external loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume
>> knob broke off.
>
> There were other dangers also. A product could be manufactured or later
> become defective causing a hot case. I recall that a guy was once
> electrocuted using an electric hand drill that had a metal case.
> Course the fact that he was standing barefoot on damp ground may have
> helped. Nowadays all my drills have plastic cases so that particular
> problem has likely been solved anyway.

The safety ground was invented for that. 3-lead plugs with a live,
a neutral and a safety ground (connected to the case).

Also, here we have mandatory ground fault interrupters in switchboards.
When a device has a connection or leak to the case, and someone touches
it and causes a more than 30mA current leak between live and ground,
the GFI disconnects the circuit.

I think in the US they are not common in switchboards, but are sometimes
integrated with outlets in "dangerous" areas like kitchen or bathroom.

On 5/31/2022 9:29 AM, Rob wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> A product could be manufactured or later become defective causing
>> a hot case.

> The safety ground was invented for that. 3-lead plugs with a live,
> a neutral and a safety ground

Yup. My house (now 22 years old in the USA) has them. And the live and
neutral leads are also polarized for the devices that use a 2 lead plug.

> Also, here we have mandatory ground fault interrupters in
> switchboards. When a device has a connection or leak to the case,
> and someone touches it and causes a more than 30mA current leak
> between live and ground, the GFI disconnects the circuit. I think in
> the US they are not common in switchboards, but are sometimes
> integrated with outlets in "dangerous" areas like kitchen or
> bathroom.

My current house came with GFIs in the kitchen, bathrooms, and garage.
The house I moved here from was built in the 50s and of course had none
of that. One of my kids hamsters got loose, bit through a cord, and
electrocuted himself in that old house. Damn unsafe wiring... ;)

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> Also, here we have mandatory ground fault interrupters in
>> switchboards. When a device has a connection or leak to the case,
>> and someone touches it and causes a more than 30mA current leak
>> between live and ground, the GFI disconnects the circuit. I think in
>> the US they are not common in switchboards, but are sometimes
>> integrated with outlets in "dangerous" areas like kitchen or
>> bathroom.
>
> My current house came with GFIs in the kitchen, bathrooms, and garage.

That is what I mean, it appears to be different in the USA.
Here it is mandatory to instlal GFIs in the switchboard, for
all groups. I think it is allowed to share a GFI on 2 or 3 breakers.

So you have GFI on all outlets and lights, and touching a live wire
usually trips them.

OTOH, Arc-fault interrupters are not common here, and I think they
are often installed on new installations in the USA.

On 5/31/2022 11:13 AM, Rob wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> My current house came with GFIs in the kitchen, bathrooms, and
>> garage.

> That is what I mean, it appears to be different in the USA.

Not sure. My house is 22 years old. Newer constructs or other areas may
be different.

> Here it is mandatory to install GFIs in the switchboard, for all
> groups. I think it is allowed to share a GFI on 2 or 3 breakers.

Is your switchboard like our breaker box? My BB is located outside. If
my bathroom GFI tripped and I had to go outside to reset it that would
be a PITA especially depending on my state of dress... 8-O

> So you have GFI on all outlets and lights, and touching a live wire
> usually trips them.

I disabled the GFI in my garage. It was false tripping on some of my tools.

> OTOH, Arc-fault interrupters are not common here, and I think they
> are often installed on new installations in the USA.

No AFCI that I'm aware of on my house. I didn't even know what it was
until I Googled...

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> Here it is mandatory to install GFIs in the switchboard, for all
>> groups. I think it is allowed to share a GFI on 2 or 3 breakers.
>
> Is your switchboard like our breaker box? My BB is located outside. If
> my bathroom GFI tripped and I had to go outside to reset it that would
> be a PITA especially depending on my state of dress... 8-O

Yes, maybe bad choice of word. Here these are normally installed
in an indoor closet near the front door, and the meters and demarcation
points for telephone, cable, fiber etc all all in there.
In very rare cases they can be in a closet in a common space e.g. in
apartment buildings, or in a space with a door to the outside.
We never have such things on the outside of a building as commonly
seen in the USA. We also have no overhead power lines.

>> So you have GFI on all outlets and lights, and touching a live wire
>> usually trips them.
>
> I disabled the GFI in my garage. It was false tripping on some of my tools.

It could be a better idea to fix the tools...

>> OTOH, Arc-fault interrupters are not common here, and I think they
>> are often installed on new installations in the USA.
>
> No AFCI that I'm aware of on my house. I didn't even know what it was
> until I Googled...

They are a good thing, they prevent fires due to "short circuit" as
it is called in the local paper (which in reality is not short circuit
but bad contact). However I think they have a tendency to false tripping,
more than a GFI.

Rob wrote:
> Also, here we have mandatory ground fault interrupters in switchboards.

That "mandatory" is relatively recent. Before 1975 it wasn't,
so I installed one myself.
In the 80's it was mandatory, but the kitchen was excluded.
Current rules date from 2005.

> When a device has a connection or leak to the case, and someone touches
> it and causes a more than 30mA current leak between live and ground,
> the GFI disconnects the circuit.

A short between neutral and ground will trip it too.

-p

On 5/31/2022 12:11 PM, Rob wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> Is your switchboard like our breaker box? My BB is located
>> outside.

> Yes, maybe bad choice of word. Here these are normally installed in
> an indoor closet near the front door,

Inside would be handier. Though I haven't needed to open my breaker box
in several years now.

> and the meters

My meter is located on the breaker box. When I first got here it had to
be read manually by a meter reader person which might be why it was
outside. Now it's been upgraded and can be read remotely.

> and demarcation points for telephone, cable,

All mine are outside and come up out of the ground to their own circuit
boxes that in turn connect to the house cable and phone wire runs.

> fiber etc all all in there.

No fiber in my neighborhood yet. Though it's in the area and coming. I'm
not looking forward to having my yard dug up though since the current
setup works just fine. But can't stop progress I guess. Some folks in my
area are using a wireless 5G ISP and are reporting good results.

> We never have such things on the outside of a building as commonly
> seen in the USA. We also have no overhead power lines.

The good news here is there's no overhead power lines in my area either.
The bad news is that I have a large ground mounted power transformer
(feeding several houses) on my corner lot line...

>> I disabled the GFI in my garage. It was false tripping on some of
>> my tools.

> It could be a better idea to fix the tools...

The tools weren't broken. Perhaps the GFI was faulty and should have
been replaced? It was easier just to bypass it. My tools all have
plastic cases so no problem there (I hope)...

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 08:52:32 -0700, AJL
<noemail@none.com> wrote:

>On 5/31/2022 4:18 AM, micky wrote:
>
>> whenever I touched that [a metal table], or maybe only when the
>> radio was on?, I got a tingle.
>
>I still get a slight tingle when I'm using a heating pad on my back and
>at the same time happen to slide my finger across the metal case of this
>(or my other) laptop when its charging.

Wow!

> And if I was calibrated I'd
>guess that tingle was at a 60 Hz rate?

Please don't get calibrated. You might want to have children some day.

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 08:52:29 -0700, AJL
<noemail@none.com> wrote:

>On 5/30/2022 1:28 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>> Ironically, in the USA this whole thing [polarized plugs] was an
>> afterthought that was introduced only AFTER a certain type of device
>> had already left the scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where
>> the chassis was directly connected to one of the mains leads, so it
>> had to be kept in an insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices
>> were kind of dangerous when the owner would modify or damage them,
>> e.g. to connect an external loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume
>> knob broke off.
>
>There were other dangers also. A product could be manufactured or later
>become defective causing a hot case. I recall that a guy was once
>electrocuted using an electric hand drill that had a metal case.
>Course the fact that he was standing barefoot on damp ground may have
>helped. Nowadays all my drills have plastic cases so that particular
>problem has likely been solved anyway.
>
>I worked in a TV shop in the 50s and got zapped by more than one hot
>chassis. Lived to tell the tale. Also go zapped by many a picture tube
>anode. In those cases I was sometimes injured, not by the shock but by
>losing skin on my arm on the sharp chassis parts when it involuntarily
>jerked backwards out of the cabinet...

I haven't gotten shocked or injured as often as you sound like, but
once, when I was being very careful, I got more than the usual 110.
Must have been 2000. Legs pushed me back across t he room and
dislocated my shoulder for the first time in 10 years. Needed surgery
after that. But the shoulder was bound to need surgery eventually.

micky wrote:
> AJL wrote:

>> I worked in a TV shop in the 50s and got zapped by more than one
>> hot chassis. Lived to tell the tale.

> I haven't gotten shocked or injured as often as you sound like, but
> once, when I was being very careful, I got more than the usual 110.
> Must have been 2000. Legs pushed me back across t he room and
> dislocated my shoulder for the first time in 10 years. Needed
> surgery after that. But the shoulder was bound to need surgery
> eventually.

There used to be a rule in the old days when most electronics had high
voltages. Always work with one hand in your pocket (or behind your
back). The reasoning was that if the current went only through an
extremity it likely wouldn't kill you but if it went through your main
body cavity the current may affect your heart rhythm which could be
deadly...

Am 31.05.22 um 23:05 schrieb micky:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 08:52:32 -0700, AJL
> <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/31/2022 4:18 AM, micky wrote:
>>
>>> whenever I touched that [a metal table], or maybe only when the
>>> radio was on?, I got a tingle.
>>
>> I still get a slight tingle when I'm using a heating pad on my back and
>> at the same time happen to slide my finger across the metal case of this
>> (or my other) laptop when its charging.
>
> Wow!
>
>> And if I was calibrated I'd
>> guess that tingle was at a 60 Hz rate?
>
> Please don't get calibrated. You might want to have children some day.

In a geriatric group like this? Most of us are or could be grand parents.

Micky, dont carry your cell around in the pocket of your pants ...

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 18:31:40 -0700, AJL
<noemail@none.com> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> AJL wrote:
>
>>> I worked in a TV shop in the 50s and got zapped by more than one
>>> hot chassis. Lived to tell the tale.
>
>> I haven't gotten shocked or injured as often as you sound like, but
>> once, when I was being very careful, I got more than the usual 110.
>> Must have been 2000. Legs pushed me back across t he room and
>> dislocated my shoulder for the first time in 10 years. Needed
>> surgery after that. But the shoulder was bound to need surgery
>> eventually.
>
>There used to be a rule in the old days when most electronics had high
>voltages. Always work with one hand in your pocket (or behind your
>back). The reasoning was that if the current went only through an
>extremity it likely wouldn't kill you but if it went through your main
>body cavity the current may affect your heart rhythm which could be
>deadly...
>
I was being very careful and only using one hand that time. I don't know
what happened. Maybe it was two spots on the same hand.

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 18:29:04 +0200, Rob
<nomail@example.com> wrote:

>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 5/30/2022 1:28 AM, Rob wrote:
>>
>>> Ironically, in the USA this whole thing [polarized plugs] was an
>>> afterthought that was introduced only AFTER a certain type of device
>>> had already left the scene: the transformerless 5-tube radio where
>>> the chassis was directly connected to one of the mains leads, so it
>>> had to be kept in an insulated (bakelite) housing. These devices
>>> were kind of dangerous when the owner would modify or damage them,
>>> e.g. to connect an external loudspeaker or antenna, or when a volume
>>> knob broke off.
>>
>> There were other dangers also. A product could be manufactured or later
>> become defective causing a hot case. I recall that a guy was once
>> electrocuted using an electric hand drill that had a metal case.
>> Course the fact that he was standing barefoot on damp ground may have
>> helped. Nowadays all my drills have plastic cases so that particular
>> problem has likely been solved anyway.
>
>The safety ground was invented for that. 3-lead plugs with a live,
>a neutral and a safety ground (connected to the case).
>
>Also, here we have mandatory ground fault interrupters in switchboards.
>When a device has a connection or leak to the case, and someone touches
>it and causes a more than 30mA current leak between live and ground,
>the GFI disconnects the circuit.

I think they are called Hamsterguards.
>
>I think in the US they are not common in switchboards, but are sometimes
>integrated with outlets in "dangerous" areas like kitchen or bathroom.

That's true, except whadaya mean switchboards? Oh, I figured it out
later, Breaker box, often called by me fusebox.

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 13:13:24 -0700, AJL
<noemail@none.com> wrote:

>On 5/31/2022 12:11 PM, Rob wrote:
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
>>> Is your switchboard like our breaker box? My BB is located
>>> outside.
>
>> Yes, maybe bad choice of word.

Not if that is the word you people use.

>> Here these are normally installed in
>> an indoor closet near the front door,
>
>Inside would be handier. Though I haven't needed to open my breaker box
>in several years now.

LOL

My meter is outside, and now was replaced with one that can be read**
remotely. And the breaker box is in the basement.

**They can probably also turn off your current remotely? They used to
have to come to the house, and in Baltimore or Maryland, you had to be
home when they reconnected you. Even though you didn't have to be home
when you bought a home and had the power connected.

I used to be late paying my bills, and I had the power disconnected.
Once I found plastic prong covers on the cement next to the meter, and I
figured out what they were doing, taking out the meter, covering the
prongs with plastic covers, and putting the meter back. So once when he
didn't come to reconnect it, I did it myself. When he showed up less
than an hour later, I told him someone else had come and done it. That
was true if you counted me, but I wanted him to think it was another
employee. Later I figured out that he had a region and he was the only
one disconnecting or connecting delinquent payers, so he knew I was
lying, but he didnt' argue or even sneer, he put the lead seal on the
meter and left. (Another way he knew it wasn't an electric employee. I
had no lead seals.)

After that I paid my bill so I guess he won.

>> and the meters
>
>My meter is located on the breaker box. When I first got here it had to
>be read manually by a meter reader person which might be why it was
>outside. Now it's been upgraded and can be read remotely.
>
>> and demarcation points for telephone, cable,
>
>All mine are outside and come up out of the ground to their own circuit
>boxes that in turn connect to the house cable and phone wire runs.
>
>> fiber etc all all in there.
>
>No fiber in my neighborhood yet. Though it's in the area and coming. I'm
>not looking forward to having my yard dug up though since the current
>setup works just fine. But can't stop progress I guess. Some folks in my
>area are using a wireless 5G ISP and are reporting good results.

They didn't dig up my yard or my neighbors' when they installed fiber.
I don't t hink they even used a wiggler because in part of the path to
the box on the wall I have a bunch of bushes, I have to get on my knees
to go behind them and I certainly can't go through them. And I have 6
feet wide cement slab for a "patio". I don't know how they went under
that but they did.
>
>> We never have such things on the outside of a building as commonly
>> seen in the USA. We also have no overhead power lines.

Where are you.
>
>The good news here is there's no overhead power lines in my area either.
>The bad news is that I have a large ground mounted power transformer
>(feeding several houses) on my corner lot line...

We have no overhead lines within 400 feet of my house, but from the
nearby main street there are, for the phone only I think, and down a
side street to just on the other side of the stream, and then over the
stream. The stream is about 2 feet deep in the middle but can go up to
10 feet when it rains. One year a tree fell down, on the phone wire,
which pulled the pole on my side of the stream over until it snapped,
and the phone line went under the water. This line supplied about 100
houses.

I called the phone company to report it, then again in a month and again
in 3 months. About 2.5 years later I saw they'd sent a truck and a new
pole and they were replacing the pole and getting the phone line out of
the water.

Interestingly, the phone worked fine all that time, including dial-up
internet. If they'd only told me I was on the schedule, I wouldn't have
kept calling.

>>> I disabled the GFI in my garage. It was false tripping on some of
>>> my tools.

When I moved in 38 years ago, the house was 4 years old and the GFI kept
tripping. I figured it was my fault since the house was so new, but I
coudln't find what I was doing wrong and eventually I turned my wrath on
the house. After I replaced it, no more problems.

The house has one GFI that supplies the outlets in all the bathrooms,
next to the kitchen and I suppose the basement sink, and the one outside
the house.
>
>> It could be a better idea to fix the tools...
>
>The tools weren't broken. Perhaps the GFI was faulty and should have

See above.

>been replaced? It was easier just to bypass it. My tools all have
>plastic cases so no problem there (I hope)...

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 11:42:06 -0700, AJL
<noemail@none.com> wrote:

>
>> OTOH, Arc-fault interrupters are not common here, and I think they
>> are often installed on new installations in the USA.
>
>No AFCI that I'm aware of on my house. I didn't even know what it was
>until I Googled...
>
I presume AFCIs also do everything a GFI does?

I dont' have one.

On 6/1/2022 1:57 AM, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 31 May 2022 13:13:24 -0700, AJL
> <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/31/2022 12:11 PM, Rob wrote:

> My meter is outside, and now was replaced with one that can be
> read** remotely. And the breaker box is in the basement.

Very few basements here. Not sure why.

> **They can probably also turn off your current remotely?

Don't think so.

> They used to have to come to the house, and in Baltimore or Maryland,
> you had to be home when they reconnected you.

My guess is in case something was left on inside? Like a stove turned on?

> Even though you didn't have to be home when you bought a home and had
> the power connected.

Then my guess is likely wrong.

> I used to be late paying my bills, and I had the power disconnected.
> Once I found plastic prong covers on the cement next to the meter,
> and I figured out what they were doing, taking out the meter,
> covering the prongs with plastic covers, and putting the meter back.
> So once when he didn't come to reconnect it, I did it myself.

Went house hunting with one of my kids and her husband years ago. One
vacant house for sale had a large extension cord draped over the fence
from a neighbor and hooked to the for sale house's fuse box stealing
power. I advised the kids to not buy the house. They of course did
anyway and the neighbor turned out to be a real nice guy.

> When he showed up less than an hour later, I told him someone else
> had come and done it. That was true if you counted me, but I wanted
> him to think it was another employee. Later I figured out that he
> had a region and he was the only one disconnecting or connecting
> delinquent payers, so he knew I was lying, but he didnt' argue or
> even sneer, he put the lead seal on the meter and left. (Another way
> he knew it wasn't an electric employee. I had no lead seals.)
>
> After that I paid my bill so I guess he won.

Gotta be careful. In one of my earlier lives I was in law enforcement
and folks were charged criminally and booked for power theft...

> They didn't dig up my yard or my neighbors' when they installed
> fiber. I don't t hink they even used a wiggler because in part of the
> path to the box on the wall I have a bunch of bushes, I have to get
> on my knees to go behind them and I certainly can't go through them.
> And I have 6 feet wide cement slab for a "patio". I don't know how
> they went under that but they did.

My worry is that the 5' easement along the street in front of my house
already carries the power, cable, and phone lines. So likely the fiber
will also go there when (if?) it comes. Fiber already goes to a box in
the area where the local cable comes from, just not to the houses.

> Where are you.

Phoenix area. Got here in 46. Pop then 100K, Pop now 5M. My suburb is
currently in the top 50 for growth in the US. Ugh...

> We have no overhead lines within 400 feet of my house, but from the
> nearby main street there are, for the phone only I think, and down a
> side street to just on the other side of the stream, and then over
> the stream. The stream is about 2 feet deep in the middle but can go
> up to 10 feet when it rains.

I have a dry wash a block away. It only runs (trickles?) when there's an
irrigation overflow. In rainy years past it ran when they had to let
water out of the mountain lakes. But we're in severe drought now and
water rationing is just around the corner...

BTW for those who don't like OT just ignore it. IMO it's better than a
dead group. But if you have to complain, just remember that your
complaint is also OT... 8-O

On 6/1/2022 1:35 AM, micky wrote:

> Breaker box, often called by me fusebox.

Yup. House before this one (built in the 50s) had a real fuse box. When
you ran out of fuses you were SOL. Apparently some folks used a penny
wedged in the socket when that happened...