Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>
>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>
>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>
> apple did no such thing.

They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
> nospam wrote:
>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>
> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.

It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be welcome.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>> nospam wrote:
>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>
>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>
> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be welcome.

LOL!

In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?

On 2022-06-22 09:41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>
>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>
>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>
>> apple did no such thing.
>
> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.

Why?

Apple's iOS platform was a huge success because people could trust that
the software they were downloading was SAFE.

Why should Apple have to change their practices because of that success?

In article <t8vgg4$d1j$1@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
> client was on iOS

no it wouldn't.

thunderbird is one of the buggiest apps on any platform and it
developers do not plan on fixing anything because they have no interest
creating a quality product. it's not even fully standards compliant.

> so we had some other option than NewsTap.

alternatives would be nice, but the problem is that usenet is simply
not big enough to justify the time needed to write a decent app.

In article <t8vgt5$h7a$2@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

>
> All know that as a mail client
> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be welcome.

you're delusional.

apple mail is awful, but thunderbird is worse.

In article <t8vgof$h7a$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
> >>>
> >>> because the developers chose not to.
> >>
> >> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
> >
> > apple did no such thing.
>
> They do all the time.

they do not.

> It is highest time the EU declares the walled
> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.

you've obviously never written any ios apps nor do you understand
anything about app development.

nothing prevents an ios version of thunderbird, other than the
developers choosing not to bother (or that they're incompetent).

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 09:41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>>
>>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>>
>>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>>
>>> apple did no such thing.
>>
>> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
>> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.
>
> Why?
>
> Apple's iOS platform was a huge success because people could trust that
> the software they were downloading was SAFE.
>
> Why should Apple have to change their practices because of that success?
>

So people can have options. Do you like to have a choice in what you use?

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 09:41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>>>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>>>
>>>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>>>
>>>> apple did no such thing.
>>>
>>> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
>>> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Apple's iOS platform was a huge success because people could trust that
>> the software they were downloading was SAFE.
>>
>> Why should Apple have to change their practices because of that success?
>>
>
> So people can have options. Do you like to have a choice in what you use?

They do have options.

nospam wrote:
> In article <2MqdnRB-sc45HS__nZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why isn¹t Thunderbird on iOS?
>
> because the developers chose not to.
>
> they refuse to fix longstanding bugs on existing versions, so why would
> they embark on a version for an entirely new platform?
>

Nah, it's simply not needed, and nobody wants it. right?

In article <t8vmfc$67b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because the developers chose not to.
> >>>>
> >>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
> >>>
> >>> apple did no such thing.
> >>
> >> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
> >> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Apple's iOS platform was a huge success because people could trust that
> > the software they were downloading was SAFE.
> >
> > Why should Apple have to change their practices because of that success?
> >
>
> So people can have options. Do you like to have a choice in what you use?

people definitely have options, as do app developers.

what you're asking for is to force developers to write apps they do not
want to write, the very opposite of options.

On 2022-06-22 12:41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>
>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>
>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>
>> apple did no such thing.
>
> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.

Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
millions of, uhm, just apps).

Don't know why TB hasn't been ported. Perhaps no interested volunteers
with the skills to do it. Mozilla do fund projects, but there has to be
a good reason to do it.

But certainly not impossible, and certainly not because Apple are
preventing it.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2022-06-22 12:49, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>> nospam wrote:
>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>
>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>
>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be
>> welcome.
>
> LOL!
>
> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?

Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
(Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
was on a PC).

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <SOJsK.155337$X_i.31457@fx18.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

>
> Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
> millions of, uhm, just apps).

yep. all of the documentation is publicly available, along with videos
and classes from apple, plus numerous third party books, website
tutorials and online forums.

> Don't know why TB hasn't been ported. Perhaps no interested volunteers
> with the skills to do it. Mozilla do fund projects, but there has to be
> a good reason to do it.

it would be a total rewrite, and the demand isn't there to justify the
effort.

> But certainly not impossible, and certainly not because Apple are
> preventing it.

exactly the point.

In article <jSJsK.155338$X_i.148882@fx18.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> > In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>
> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.

true, yet most mac/ios mail apps fail to do that.

> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
> was on a PC).

it isn't. thunderbird is perhaps the worst possible email app, with the
possible exception of unix mail.

On 2022-06-22 11:19, badgolferman wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 09:41, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>>>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>>>
>>>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>>>
>>>> apple did no such thing.
>>>
>>> They do all the time. It is highest time the EU declares the walled
>>> garden around iOS illegal practice. Will happen probably soon.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Apple's iOS platform was a huge success because people could trust that
>> the software they were downloading was SAFE.
>>
>> Why should Apple have to change their practices because of that success?
>>
>
> So people can have options. Do you like to have a choice in what you use?
>

People have a choice:

Apple's whole offering.

Not Apple's offering.

On 2022-06-22 12:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 12:49, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>>
>>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be
>>> welcome.
>>
>> LOL!
>>
>> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>
> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
> was on a PC).
>

What's so wrong with Apple Mail?

On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
> TB is by far better than Apple Mail

Hardly.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 18:28 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <t8vend$9pt$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Why isn1t Thunderbird on iOS?
>>>>
>>>> because the developers chose not to.
>>>
>>> False. Apple left them no options and dictated the technology.
>>
>> apple did no such thing.
>
> They do all the time.

How exactly did Apple supposedly dictate the technology with respect to
Thunderbird's functionality as an email & Usenet client?

How did NewsTap and other iOS / macOS news clients deal with this
dictation? Be specific, please.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2022-06-22 14:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail
>
> Hardly.
>

Honestly...what is all this hate for Apple Mail?

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 14:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail
>>
>> Hardly.
>>
>
> Honestly...what is all this hate for Apple Mail?
>
I get more from using the apps themselves. I stopped using Apple Mail quite
some time ago. Usually the update cycle is better with the standalone apps,
but there may have been a time when Google stopped updating their app when
I went back to Apple Mail for a spell. It’s more a personal preference than
actual hate for me.

nospam wrote:

> apple mail is awful, but thunderbird is worse.

On Windows, what's better than Thunderbird that is a free MUA?
Claws?
Alpine?
Mailbird?
Postbox?
Mailspring?
eM?
Outlook?
TheBat!?
BlueMail?
Spike?
Airmail? (may not be on Windows but is on iOS & macOS)

I can't speak for "Apple Mail" but I use Thunderbird on Windows
and, for my needs Thunderbird on Windows works better than Claws did.

What better Windows MUA do you suggest people use on Windows nospam?

On 2022-06-22, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 14:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail
>>
>> Hardly.
>
> Honestly...what is all this hate for Apple Mail?

I suspect it's from people who don't actually use it. I use it daily on
multiple devices. It's certainly not perfect, but it has the basic
functionality I need, and mostly Just Works™.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote:

> How exactly did Apple supposedly dictate the technology with respect to
> Thunderbird's functionality as an email & Usenet client?

I do not know the answer to that question, nor even if, indeed, Apple did
"dictate the technology", but we know Apple _does_ sometimes "dictate the
technology" which prevents app developers from porting to the iOS platform.

Hence, it's not improbable that Apple "dictated" substandard technology.
However, Joerg needs to prove his assertion, as I do mine.

> How did NewsTap and other iOS / macOS news clients deal with this
> dictation? Be specific, please.

I can't speak for what Joerg is alluding to, but the venerable Tor Browser
Bundle developers said very clearly Apple dictated they use a substandard
technology... which is the very reason why the Tor Browser is on _every_
other common consumer platform other than on iOS.
*Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device?*
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>
"Apple requires browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents Onion Browser from having the same privacy protections
as Tor Browser."
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

Alan Browne wrote:

> Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
> millions of, uhm, just apps).

That's not really a true statement, Alan, because Apple _prevents_ many app
functionalities from existing for iOS users (not Mac users, but iOS users).

We can list scores of examples, but just one is setting the operating
system to a default mock location app, which is trivial to do on Android.

An example that encompasses all _other_ operating systems, including macOS,
is that Apple prevents the Tor Browser Team from porting the Tor Browser
Bundle to iOS (I already gave a cite to the webkit reference on that).

In addition, Apple prevents _only_ iOS from graphing Wi-Fi signal strength
over time for all available access points, which, again, even macOS can do.

I could go on and on about app functionality that Apple does not allow on
iOS (e.g., changing the app launcher or the app-drawer app)... where I'm
just bringing this up because your statement is patently wrong.

*Apple _does_ prevent _lots_ of app functionality from being on iOS.*
> Don't know why TB hasn't been ported. Perhaps no interested volunteers
> with the skills to do it. Mozilla do fund projects, but there has to be
> a good reason to do it.

I looked for that answer in the FAQ, which is light on details:
*Is a mobile Thunderbird app in development for iOS?*
"Thunderbird is currently evaluating the development of an iOS app."
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/>

There's also iOS in the roadmap, but this is even lighter on detail:
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/revealed-thunderbird-on-android-plans-k9/>
"Thunderbird users have long been asking for Thunderbird on their
*Android and iOS devices*. This move allows Thunderbird users to have
a powerful, privacy-respecting email experience today on Android.
Plus, it lets the community help shape the transition of K-9 Mail
into a fully-featured mobile Thunderbird experience."

Maybe they just need a suitable FOSS 3rd-party iOS MUA to join forces with.
Do they exist?

> But certainly not impossible, and certainly not because Apple are
> preventing it.

I found an Android/Thunderbird planning forum, but not yet one for iOS:
<https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/android-planning>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.