nospam wrote:

>> Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
>> millions of, uhm, just apps).
>
> yep. all of the documentation is publicly available, along with videos
> and classes from apple, plus numerous third party books, website
> tutorials and online forums.

Unfortunately, both Alan Browne and nospam are clueless about everything
that Apple does as all they seem to know is what Apple "says" it does.

The fact remains that there is _tons_ of functionality that Apple doesn't
seem to allow on iOS that is on _every other common consumer platform_.

The privacy and protection of the Tor Browser is just one of those, which
Apple won't allow because Apple requires Webkit used by all browsers.

There are plenty of other examples of where Apple prevents iOS from having
the basic functionality that every other platform already has but iOS.

The fact that both Alan Browne and nospam are clueless about this fact is
because of three factors that all these iKooks commonly share:
a. Neither of them owns an IQ even approaching normal
(although, truth be told, both are in the high end for iKooks)
b. Neither of them has _any_ education to speak of
(which is why they can't process basic facts everyone else knows)
c. Both of them have self esteem in the toilet (understandably so),
which is why they are desperate to gain it back via Apple marketing
>> Don't know why TB hasn't been ported. Perhaps no interested volunteers
>> with the skills to do it. Mozilla do fund projects, but there has to be
>> a good reason to do it.
>
> it would be a total rewrite, and the demand isn't there to justify the
> effort.

Again, nospam is completely wrong because of the three factors above:
a. His IQ is well below normal
b. He has no education to speak of
c. He defends Apple's deficiencies to the death

The proof that it would not necessarily be a 'total rewrite' is the fact
that the Thunderbird team joined forces with the K9 Team and acquired the
rights to the use of the name and code for porting TB to Android.

It no longer shocking how nospam's brain can't process that simple fact.

>> But certainly not impossible, and certainly not because Apple are
>> preventing it.
>
> exactly the point.

It's clearly not impossible but what's clear is that neither nospam nor
Alan Brown has any idea of the fact that Apple _does_ prevent _tons_ of
apps from working (see prior examples such as system mock location).

In summary, I'm going to believe the Thunderbird Roadmap & FAQ, both of
which mention that they're well aware people want TB on iOS and that
they're going to port Thunderbird to Android first.

Note: This flies in the face of nospam's constant boasts that developers
port to iOS first (although to be balanced, the reason here is probably
technical in nature and the reasons nospam is using are probably financial
in nature).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

*Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Why isn't Thunderbird on iOS? That just seems weird. On Linux and Windows
> it had a usenet functionality. Hmmm�K

The short answer is that the Thunderbird developers know all about iOS and
that they are "evaluating" the port of Thunderbird to iOS but that they're
porting to Android first.

It says so in their FAQ & in their Roadmap, but both are light on details.
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/revealed-thunderbird-on-android-plans-k9/>
<https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/>

There's nothing there about the newsreader though...
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

In article <t9097o$1faq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > How exactly did Apple supposedly dictate the technology with respect to
> > Thunderbird's functionality as an email & Usenet client?
>
> I do not know the answer to that question, nor even if, indeed, Apple did
> "dictate the technology", but we know Apple _does_ sometimes "dictate the
> technology" which prevents app developers from porting to the iOS platform.

no, they do not.

you're not a developer (i am).

In article <t909u2$1lml$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
> > millions of, uhm, just apps).
>
> That's not really a true statement,

yes it is.

well, *you* can't write apps for iphone or android, so perhaps not
'anyone'.

> Alan, because Apple _prevents_ many app
> functionalities from existing for iOS users (not Mac users, but iOS users).

no they don't.

> We can list scores of examples,

no device can do everything. *every* device has limitations.

the reality is that there are far more things that can be done on ios
than on android, some of which are *very* easy.

> but just one is setting the operating
> system to a default mock location app, which is trivial to do on Android.
>
> An example that encompasses all _other_ operating systems, including macOS,
> is that Apple prevents the Tor Browser Team from porting the Tor Browser
> Bundle to iOS (I already gave a cite to the webkit reference on that).
>
> In addition, Apple prevents _only_ iOS from graphing Wi-Fi signal strength
> over time for all available access points, which, again, even macOS can do.

you continue to demonstrate your ignorance.

in fact, apple just made the graphing part easier with swift ui.

> I could go on and on about app functionality that Apple does not allow on
> iOS (e.g., changing the app launcher or the app-drawer app)...

you could, but you'll once again be told that you're wrong, causing you
to rant, as usual.

In article <t90afr$1qh3$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> >> Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
> >> millions of, uhm, just apps).
> >
> > yep. all of the documentation is publicly available, along with videos
> > and classes from apple, plus numerous third party books, website
> > tutorials and online forums.
>
> Unfortunately, both Alan Browne and nospam are clueless about everything
> that Apple does as all they seem to know is what Apple "says" it does.

unfortunately, you're full of shit.

i've written many ios apps and am well aware of what's available to
developers. you are not.

you can't even get android sample code to work.

> The fact remains that there is _tons_ of functionality that Apple doesn't
> seem to allow on iOS that is on _every other common consumer platform_.

that is *not* a fact.

it is nothing more than your ignorant bullshit.

In article <t90al9$1s2d$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> The short answer is that the Thunderbird developers know all about iOS

no they don't. they don't even know all about the platforms they claim
to support. thunderbird is one of the buggiest apps on any platform.
it's not even standards compliant.

nospam wrote:

>> Unfortunately, both Alan Browne and nospam are clueless about everything
>> that Apple does as all they seem to know is what Apple "says" it does.
>
> unfortunately, you're full of shit.

And yet, you don't have any adult response to the very facts I presented.

> i've written many ios apps and am well aware of what's available to
> developers. you are not.

My example of webkit being required is something you're apparently not
aware of then, nospam, because it's just one of the facts I presented.

> you can't even get android sample code to work.

I wonder if you realize that you revert to kindergarten insults every time
you're presented with a fact about Apple that you happen to hate is a fact?

>
>> The fact remains that there is _tons_ of functionality that Apple doesn't
>> seem to allow on iOS that is on _every other common consumer platform_.
>
> that is *not* a fact.

And yet, there is _tons_ of app functionality (such as graphical wi-fi
signal strength debugging), which is on _all_ other platforms _except_ iOS.

> it is nothing more than your ignorant bullshit.

And yet, you can't name even a _single_ fact I said that you can show was
wrong.

I get it that you're hurt that I assess your IQ as low, but you should feel
honored that I also said it's the highest of all the iKooks out there,
along with Alan Browne, whose IQ is similarly low but high for an iKook.

However, your low IQ is the reason you're unable to process basic facts.
So it's important for me to state that's the reason you are what you are.

You defend everything Apple to the death, which is fine, but in that
process you act like a kindergarten child whenever you hate the facts.

As you did just now.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

nospam wrote:

>>> Anyone can write apps for iPhone (proof: thousands of useful apps and
>>> millions of, uhm, just apps).
>>
>> That's not really a true statement,
>
> yes it is.

I used to wonder why you low-IQ iKooks brazenly fabricate imaginary
functionality for iOS that simply does not exist in the App Store.

> well, *you* can't write apps for iphone or android, so perhaps not
> 'anyone'.

Given every _other_ common consumer platform can graph Wi-Fi signal
strength over time, where is an app to do that on the iOS App Store then?

>
>> Alan, because Apple _prevents_ many app
>> functionalities from existing for iOS users (not Mac users, but iOS users).
>
> no they don't.

Given the FOSS Tor Browser development team has explained why they can't to
use the substandard webkit, why is that FOSS Tor Browser privacy
functionality on _every_ other common consumer platform _except_ on iOS
then?

>> We can list scores of examples,
>
> no device can do everything. *every* device has limitations.

We didn't even _start_ to list the huge hardware limitations of iOS devices
nospam, so yes, iOS devices lack the basic hardware most others have.

For example, most Android devices have portable storage while all iOS
devices lack this most basic of the most common hardware functionality.
> the reality is that there are far more things that can be done on ios
> than on android, some of which are *very* easy.

OK. Then let's ask about the super simple easy-peasy stuff first then.
Where are the many app launchers for iOS that you seem to claim exist?

>> In addition, Apple prevents _only_ iOS from graphing Wi-Fi signal strength
>> over time for all available access points, which, again, even macOS can do.
>
> you continue to demonstrate your ignorance.

You could prove me wrong in a second nospam, if you could back up your
brazen claims of imaginary iOS functionality by pointing to an app in the
App Store right now that graphs wifi signal strength for all available
access points.

Go ahead.
I'll install it.

I'm waiting...

HINT: You iKooks have no education so you forget that educated people
_test_ the claims of others which you're hoping I won't do (and,
unfortunately, which most people on this particularly newsgroup don't do).

> in fact, apple just made the graphing part easier with swift ui.

Go ahead then and name the free iOS app on the app store that graphs the
wi-fi signal strength for all nearby access points in real time.

I'm waiting...

>> I could go on and on about app functionality that Apple does not allow on
>> iOS (e.g., changing the app launcher or the app-drawer app)...
>
> you could, but you'll once again be told that you're wrong, causing you
> to rant, as usual.

Hehhehheh... notice you said I'll be "told" that I'm wrong, and that is
correct since every fact you hate about Apple, you brazenly deny exists.

And that's a _lot_ of facts you hate about Apple indeed.

In summary, it's not even difficult to prove that iOS lacks _tons_ of
functionality that every other operating system (including macOS) has.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information.

nospam wrote:

>> The short answer is that the Thunderbird developers know all about iOS
>
> no they don't. they don't even know all about the platforms they claim
> to support. thunderbird is one of the buggiest apps on any platform.
> it's not even standards compliant.

It's interesting that you blame everyone but Apple for the horrendous lack
of app functionality available in the app store for the iOS product line.

nospam wrote:

>> I do not know the answer to that question, nor even if, indeed, Apple did
>> "dictate the technology", but we know Apple _does_ sometimes "dictate the
>> technology" which prevents app developers from porting to the iOS platform.
>
> no, they do not.

The way I know you have a low IQ nospam is that you have no defense to
facts except to brazenly deny all facts that you don't like about Apple.

> you're not a developer (i am).

Then why are you apparently completely unaware that Apple forces browser
developers to use the substandard webkit which not only the Tor Browser
developers claim can't provide the privacy they need, but other leading
browser developers decried as being "uniquely underpowered" for browsers?

Unlike you, nospam, I _do_ have an education and I do have at least a
normal IQ and I'm not one to defend Apple to the death as you do.

I simply back up my claims with reliable cites (unlike you, nospam):
*Google engineer calls out Apple for holding back the web*
*with uniquely underpowered iOS browsers*
<https://9to5google.com/2021/05/03/ios-browsers-underpowered-apple/>
--
The facts remain, despite the fact you hate facts about Apple, nospam.

In article <t90c0h$89r$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> And yet, you don't have any adult response to the very facts I presented.

an adult response would only serve to confuse a child like yourself.

In article <t90ct9$gk2$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> You could prove me wrong in a second

btdt

nospam wrote:

>> You could prove me wrong in a second
>
> btdt

You never provide an _adult_ response to facts about Apple that you hate.

On 2022-06-22 19:25, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> You could prove me wrong in a second
>>
>> btdt
>
> You never provide an _adult_ response to facts about Apple that you hate.

That would first require to actually have stated facts.

nospam wrote:

>> And yet, you don't have any adult response to the very facts I presented.
>
> an adult response would only serve to confuse a child like yourself.

I repeat the adult request for you to simply back up your claims by
pointing to apps in the app store today that do what you claim they do.

That's all.
Or honestly admit you fabricated your claims of iOS app functionality.

Either way, it would be the adult thing for you to do.

Am 22.06.22 um 18:49 schrieb Alan:
> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>> nospam wrote:
>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>
>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>
>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be welcome.
>
> LOL!
>
> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?

No go item with Apple Mail: No separate profiles possible.
Apple Mail runs only on MacOS. I use TB on Linux, Mac and could use it
on Windows if would ever consider to use a Kindergarten OS. Profiles are
fully interoperable between the OSs.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 22.06.22 um 21:27 schrieb nospam:
> In article <jSJsK.155338$X_i.148882@fx18.iad>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>>
>> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
>
> true, yet most mac/ios mail apps fail to do that.

Fanboy who does not know much otside the little Apple world?

>> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
>> was on a PC).
>
> it isn't. thunderbird is perhaps the worst possible email app, with the
> possible exception of unix mail.

You do not know TB.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 22.06.22 um 21:35 schrieb Alan:
> On 2022-06-22 12:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
>> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
>> was on a PC).
>>
>
> What's so wrong with Apple Mail?

Almost everything. I administer that peace of shit for others.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 23.06.22 um 01:34 schrieb Jolly Roger:
> On 2022-06-22, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 14:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail
>>>
>>> Hardly.
>>
>> Honestly...what is all this hate for Apple Mail?
>
> I suspect it's from people who don't actually use it. I use it daily on
> multiple devices. It's certainly not perfect, but it has the basic
> functionality I need, and mostly Just Works™.

Very basic! Roughly at Kindergarten-level.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2022-06-22 15:35, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 12:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 12:49, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>>>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>>>
>>>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail
>>>> client
>>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be
>>>> welcome.
>>>
>>> LOL!
>>>
>>> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>>
>> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
>> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and
>> that was on a PC).
>>
>
> What's so wrong with Apple Mail?

Other "paid" mail clients are far better at search, sorting/classifying,
setting rules, etc. and so on.

Mac Mail is buggy, thought some of the worst bugs like IMAP settings
disappearing have been fixed.

(Apple Mail for iOS is a bit bizarre when setting up a GMail account - a
bit of unexpected hoop jumping via Safari due (I believe) to the
security model).

MS Outlook is much better - if anything it over-reaches - and is best
used with other MS office and backoffice systems. But early goings of
it on the Mac were buggy. I haven't tried Outlook on Mac in 10+ years,
however. IAC, I'd rather stick w/i the "Apple ecosphere" where possible.

In passing, e-mail has become less and less important for communications
whether personal or work than it was 10+ years ago - so putting up with
Apple Mail is fine.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2022-06-23 09:58, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2022-06-22 15:35, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-06-22 12:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-22 12:49, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a
>>>>>> newsgroup
>>>>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail
>>>>> client
>>>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be
>>>>> welcome.
>>>>
>>>> LOL!
>>>>
>>>> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>>>
>>> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
>>> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and
>>> that was on a PC).
>>>
>>
>> What's so wrong with Apple Mail?
>
> Other "paid" mail clients are far better at search, sorting/classifying,
> setting rules, etc. and so on.

Smart mailboxes and rules work great in Apple Mail.

Give a concrete example.

>
> Mac Mail is buggy, thought some of the worst bugs like IMAP settings
> disappearing have been fixed.

"Buggy"? Not that I've noticed.

>
> (Apple Mail for iOS is a bit bizarre when setting up a GMail account - a
> bit of unexpected hoop jumping via Safari due (I believe) to the
> security model).

OK.

>
> MS Outlook is much better - if anything it over-reaches - and is best
> used with other MS office and backoffice systems.  But early goings of
> it on the Mac were buggy.  I haven't tried Outlook on Mac in 10+ years,
> however.  IAC, I'd rather stick w/i the "Apple ecosphere" where possible.
>
> In passing, e-mail has become less and less important for communications
> whether personal or work than it was 10+ years ago - so putting up with
> Apple Mail is fine.

On 2022-06-22 23:40, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 18:49 schrieb Alan:
>> On 2022-06-22 09:44, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 22.06.22 um 18:37 schrieb badgolferman:
>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>>> thought it was worth their time (it's not).
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice if Thunderbird and its ability to work as a newsgroup
>>>> client was on iOS so we had some other option than NewsTap.
>>>
>>> It is bitter but I think it won't happen. All know that as a mail client
>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail and a news client would also be welcome.
>>
>> LOL!
>>
>> In what specific ways is TB a better mail client than Apple Mail?
>
> No go item with Apple Mail: No separate profiles possible.

"No go item"? Did you mean to type "No go itemS with Apple Mail"
followed by a new paragraph?

> Apple Mail runs only on MacOS. I use TB on Linux, Mac and could use it
> on Windows if would ever consider to use a Kindergarten OS. Profiles are
> fully interoperable between the OSs.
>

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the client in the
context of the discussion.

On 2022-06-22 23:43, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.06.22 um 21:35 schrieb Alan:
>> On 2022-06-22 12:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> Doesn't take much to be better than Apple Mail.
>>> (Doesn't mean TB is ... haven't used it for mail since 2005 ... and that
>>> was on a PC).
>>>
>>
>> What's so wrong with Apple Mail?
>
> Almost everything. I administer that peace of shit for others.
>

That's not an answer. That's a dodge.

On 2022-06-22 23:45, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.06.22 um 01:34 schrieb Jolly Roger:
>> On 2022-06-22, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-22 14:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> On 2022-06-22, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> TB is by far better than Apple Mail
>>>>
>>>> Hardly.
>>>
>>> Honestly...what is all this hate for Apple Mail?
>>
>> I suspect it's from people who don't actually use it. I use it daily on
>> multiple devices. It's certainly not perfect, but it has the basic
>> functionality I need, and mostly Just Works™.
>
> Very basic! Roughly at Kindergarten-level.
>
>

Lot's of empty disparagement.

No factual points.

On 2022-06-23 13:01, Alan wrote:

>>> What's so wrong with Apple Mail?
>>
>> Other "paid" mail clients are far better at search,
>> sorting/classifying, setting rules, etc. and so on.
>
> Smart mailboxes and rules work great in Apple Mail.

Not really - compared to other clients.

>
> Give a concrete example.

No time for that crap but there are various clients that do these things
better and with less fuss to set up.

>>
>> Mac Mail is buggy, thought some of the worst bugs like IMAP settings
>> disappearing have been fixed.
>
> "Buggy"? Not that I've noticed.

Try harder. One example is: I'm in an inbox for my ISP. Switch to
another inbox. List of e-mails sits empty for 10 - 20 seconds...

(To be clear: I'm talking about the Mac Apple e-mail client - I don't
use the iOS one so much that I've noticed any bugs there).

>>
>> (Apple Mail for iOS is a bit bizarre when setting up a GMail account -
>> a bit of unexpected hoop jumping via Safari due (I believe) to the
>> security model).
>
> OK.

And actually it's the same hoop jumping on the Mac - but is easier
because of the larger screen and various visible windows open.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee