On 14/08/2022 16:19, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>
> So I have to ask those of you on Windows 11 Home about this question.
I use Google Pixel 6a and mount it to with Microsoft Account to access
emails on outlook.com. Without Microsoft account you can't get your
emails on outlook. You can feel full force of vibrations when your penis
is locked on Pixel 6a and connected to Windows 11. It feels very nice
when the vibrations flow through your entire body. You just need to
balance your body on two legs otherwise you could fall down.

https://store.google.com/

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Getting past the MSA is largely an install time thing.
> After that, nobody gives a fuck.

Well, actually *Microsoft* gives a fuck, because after a recent
Windows 11 update, I *again* got an install-like UI (which enticed you
to subscribe to all kinds of services, which I of course declined) which
required an MSA to continue. The (full-screen) UI could not be exited
and I did not want to force a shutdown. In the end I chose a
'Back'function and *there* it presented the option to continue with a
local account.

Bottom line: Again more of the familiar Microsoft tricks to say/imply
that an MSA is mandatory and again hidden tricks to evade that
requirement.

FWIW, new (July 27) laptop with Windows 11 Home. 'winver' says:

Version 21H2 (OS Build 22000.856)

(Let me know if you need more version info (and how to get it) for your
Secret Decoder Ring.)

[...]

On 8/14/2022 1:01 PM, Paul wrote:
> Getting past the MSA is largely an install time thing.
> After that, nobody gives a fuck. Would the Windows Store
> depend on an MSA ? Maybe. But then you don't absolutely
> need the Windows Store to play win32 Tetris.

What happens to your local Windows 11 operating system if you installed
Windows 11 following MSA creation instructions & then some time later you
subsequently asked Microsoft to delete the MSA from the Microsoft servers?

Does the local Windows 11 get unaffected?

On 8/15/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Getting past the MSA is largely an install time thing.
>> After that, nobody gives a fuck.
>
> Well, actually *Microsoft* gives a fuck, because after a recent
> Windows 11 update, I *again* got an install-like UI (which enticed you
> to subscribe to all kinds of services, which I of course declined) which
> required an MSA to continue. The (full-screen) UI could not be exited
> and I did not want to force a shutdown. In the end I chose a
> 'Back'function and *there* it presented the option to continue with a
> local account.
>
> Bottom line: Again more of the familiar Microsoft tricks to say/imply
> that an MSA is mandatory and again hidden tricks to evade that
> requirement.
>
> FWIW, new (July 27) laptop with Windows 11 Home. 'winver' says:
>
> Version 21H2 (OS Build 22000.856)
>
> (Let me know if you need more version info (and how to get it) for your
> Secret Decoder Ring.)

control-alt-delete then TaskManager

Run menu : "cmd" to run a command prompt window

tasklist /svc

Survey the scene and pick the most likely culprit.
It may be easier to read the cmd window than watch the
process list in Task manager.

The "extra services" dialog appears on other machines like
that too, but there is a button "try again in three days time"
or the like, so you can be annoyed by it then.

And you *can* turn the machine power off. The journal
on C: is amazing :-)

*******

Alternately, shift-F10 is mentioned as a way to open a Command Prompt.

https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/13/how-to-bypass-the-microsoft-account-requirement-during-windows-setup/

But I still can't find the name of the item drawing to the screen.
It could be a shell experience of some sort.

*******

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-10/why-am-i-getting-this-quot-let-s-finish-setting-up-your-device/m-p/1751604

"Let's finish setting up your device"

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/224690i6D6A60C0F36E131F/image-size/large?v=v2&px=999

You can do it through Notifications, but if that is missing in your
particular version, there's a reg key.

HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\UserProfileEngagement
ScoobeSystemSettingsEnabled DWORD 0

In Win11, I seem to have one of those keys already, and it's set that way.

Now, even though my Scoobe is set to zero, the notification one is ARMED.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/RZGdffj3/notifications-w11-engagement.gif

OOBE: Out of box experience
SCOOBE: Second chance out of box experience

Paul

On 8/15/2022 11:14 AM, YK wrote:
> On 8/14/2022 1:01 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Getting past the MSA is largely an install time thing.
>> After that, nobody gives a fuck. Would the Windows Store
>> depend on an MSA ? Maybe. But then you don't absolutely
>> need the Windows Store to play win32 Tetris.
>
> What happens to your local Windows 11 operating system if you installed
> Windows 11 following MSA creation instructions & then some time later you
> subsequently asked Microsoft to delete the MSA from the Microsoft servers?
>
> Does the local Windows 11 get unaffected?

You cannot use the services linked to the old MSA,
so you provide a new MSA if you desire to set up
services again.

I'm sure it is delightfully messy.

If an MSA is actually "removed", why should it
be sitting on an authentication server ? It would
be gone at that point.

I think you are possibly referring to de-registering
an MSA against one machine, while continuing to use the
MSA on other machines. This might be handy if selling
a machine onwards and not wishing to leave MSA details
related to the machine. A clean install removes the physical evidence,
but the logical association of the MSA to the machine, might
still exist on a Microsoft server.

Paul

On 8/15/2022 11:14 AM, YK wrote:

> What happens to your local Windows 11 operating system if you installed
> Windows 11 following MSA creation instructions & then some time later you
> subsequently asked Microsoft to delete the MSA from the Microsoft servers?
>
> Does the local Windows 11 get unaffected?

Does the local Windows 11 get unaffected? <=== this statement

The MSA controls some aspects of services the user might be
using. Your ability to access some files on OneDrive may depend
on the MSA.

If you delete the MSA, it means your OneDrive files are now an orphan.

But it does not mean the OS stops working. The kernel keeps
accepting calls, Ring 3 keeps working, and so on. Does the
Calc.App work ? Maybe not, if it somehow checks Windows Store
for updates and happens to use an MSA while interacting. But
your traditional win32 applications (firefox, thunderbird, pan,
photoshop 5, ...) still work. Because they have no fiddly parts
that use an MSA for anything. Maybe if you'd never had an MSA
at all, the Calc.App would have worked, even when checking in
with the Windows Store. (The "never had an MSA" case may be
handled separately from "had an MSA but canceled it".)

But if you again wanted to establish OneDrive file storage,
to a brand-new clean disk area at Microsoft, then you could
get that by providing yet another MSA.

MSA is just as intertwined with modern features on an OS,
as it is "on any SmartPhone". It can affect some Cloud
related Ring3 features -- the Windows Store is a Cloud feature,
an unfortunate Cloud feature. Only testing all these scenarios
by hand, would tell us whether the implementation was correct.

On a SmartPhone, the core OS component (the kernel) could
continue to run, while everything in Ring3 was busted. This
might happen if every Ring3 application was signed or authenticated
using an account. The OS may not be stopped, but the thing
could be a virtual brick in terms of getting anything to run.
It then depends on what fallback features, if any, are coded
into the handling of applications.

Paul

On 8/15/2022 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:

>
> OOBE: Out of box experience
> SCOOBE: Second chance out of box experience

I was doing Patch Tuesday on the W11Pro setup
and the SCOOBE showed up.

I used Control-Alt-Delete and started Task Manager.

I could see userOOBEBroker.EXE running, but killing
that did not make the pesky dialog go away.

But when I would wave the mouse around the window,
and especially the rectangular button, I could get
a very weak association with

WebExperienceHostApp.EXE

which would be running the javascript files for that dialog.

when I killed that, the window went away.

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> Getting past the MSA is largely an install time thing.
> >> After that, nobody gives a fuck.
> >
> > Well, actually *Microsoft* gives a fuck, because after a recent
> > Windows 11 update, I *again* got an install-like UI (which enticed you
> > to subscribe to all kinds of services, which I of course declined) which
> > required an MSA to continue. The (full-screen) UI could not be exited
> > and I did not want to force a shutdown. In the end I chose a
> > 'Back'function and *there* it presented the option to continue with a
> > local account.
> >
> > Bottom line: Again more of the familiar Microsoft tricks to say/imply
> > that an MSA is mandatory and again hidden tricks to evade that
> > requirement.
> >
> > FWIW, new (July 27) laptop with Windows 11 Home. 'winver' says:
> >
> > Version 21H2 (OS Build 22000.856)
> >
> > (Let me know if you need more version info (and how to get it) for your
> > Secret Decoder Ring.)
>
> control-alt-delete then TaskManager
>
> Run menu : "cmd" to run a command prompt window
>
> tasklist /svc
>
> Survey the scene and pick the most likely culprit.
> It may be easier to read the cmd window than watch the
> process list in Task manager.

Yeah, I probably should have done something like that in order to try
to catch and identify the culprit, but the install-like UI caught me by
surprise [1] and I thought that they were doing an install all over
again, causing me to lose all my copying-of-files/(re)installing-of-
software/(re-)configuring-of-software/etc. that I had been doing the
last few weeks, so my priority was getting out and saving my stuff, not
trying to catch the culprit.

[1] Imagine innocent Joe User who is put into this mess by Microsoft,
when he just wants to get on with his - rudely interrupted - work!

> The "extra services" dialog appears on other machines like
> that too, but there is a button "try again in three days time"
> or the like, so you can be annoyed by it then.

For the install-like UI I got (your term SCOOBE: Second chance out of
box experience), there was no "try again in three days time" button.

> And you *can* turn the machine power off. The journal
> on C: is amazing :-)

Yeah, I'm not worried about the journal, I'm worried about
Microsoft knowing 'better' and wiping stuff, doing an install, etc..
After all, this is Windows 11, not Real Windows (TM)! :-(

> *******
>
> Alternately, shift-F10 is mentioned as a way to open a Command Prompt.
>
> https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/13/how-to-bypass-the-microsoft-account-requirement-during-windows-setup/

Yeah, that one is in my notes as well. Small problem is that I can't
get to those notes when this happened/happens. Catch-22! So next time,
I'll have to borrow SWMBO's machine to get to (the backup of) my notes!

[...]

[Likely culprit covered in your other response.]

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> >
> > OOBE: Out of box experience
> > SCOOBE: Second chance out of box experience
>
> I was doing Patch Tuesday on the W11Pro setup
> and the SCOOBE showed up.
>
> I used Control-Alt-Delete and started Task Manager.
>
> I could see userOOBEBroker.EXE running, but killing
> that did not make the pesky dialog go away.
>
> But when I would wave the mouse around the window,
> and especially the rectangular button, I could get
> a very weak association with
>
> WebExperienceHostApp.EXE
>
> which would be running the javascript files for that dialog.
>
> when I killed that, the window went away.

Thanks. Next time, I'll be on the lookout for those and similar
culprits.

"It's MY machine, damn you!"

On 8/15/2022 10:34 AM, Paul wrote:
> If you delete the MSA, it means your OneDrive files are now an orphan.
>
> But it does not mean the OS stops working.

What I mean is if you can't stop the MSA from being created at the Windows
11 installation time, maybe you can ask Microsoft to delete the MSA a week
or whatever after the Windows 11 installation.

That way, there's no MSA.
But what will break that you need?

If the only things that don't work after MSA deletion are unnecessary
Microsoft cloud services such as OneDrive and the Microsoft Store, that
would be an overall win for the user to delete the MSA after intallation.

What else would stop working on Windows 11 when you have MS delete the MSA?

"Andy Burnelli" wrote in message news:tdb3pe$aj5$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
>Rick wrote:
>
>> I've been using Microsoft 11 for several months and have never logged
>> into any Microsoft account.
>
>First, THANK YOU for responding ON TOPIC!
>You're a godsend because you are the first who _understood_ the topic.
>
>This is EXCELLENT information (if it's true).
>Unfortunately, I have to ASK OTHERS if it's true because:
>a. My Win10 does NOT have a MS account
>b. Every WinS that I converted to Win10 does NOT have a MS account
>c. But my Win10 desktops are too old to be allowed to install Win11
>
>So I have to ask those of you on Windows 11 Home about this question.
>Are you _sure_ you were able to set up Windows 11 Home WITHOUT an account?
>
>I was "under the impression" that this was now required.
>Please advise as that is a critically important detail.
>
>> In fact, in 25+ years of using Windows-based computers, I have never even
>> had a Microsoft account.
>
>As I recall, when I converted Windows S laptops into Windows 10 Home, I had
>to "temporarily" _create_ a MS Account, and then I could have it deleted.
>
>Is that no longer necessary to first create the account and then delete it
>for Windows S to be converted into Windows 10 Home nowadays?
>
>> My computer works just fine and I can access all functionality including
>> internet access with no problems.
>
>Good. If this is true, and it may very well _be_ true, that Windows 11 does
>not _require_ a MS account for full functionality, then this question being
>asked is moot.
>
>Note that I am not in the least worried about the inability to log into and
>install programs from the Microsoft Store since, IMHO, it's all garbage.
>
>For _that_, you "probably" need an account - but - as you stated - you
>still have _full functionality_ without logging into that MS Store.
>
>>
>> I do have a username and password for accessing my computer locally, but
>> it's a stretch to call that a Microsoft account.
>
>Agreed. A _local_ account is normal. Like in the "olden days" we had a
>username and a password that was local to the machine. That's fine.
>
>> That's more to keep my computer physically secure against other people
>> in my house. Even when I am not connected to the internet (if I disable
>> my network connection, for example) I can still access my computer just
>> fine and access all its functionality. So I'm not sure what you mean by
>> saying Windows 11 has a requirement to log onto some mythical Microsoft
>> tracking account.
>
>Like you, for my _entire_ experience with Microsoft, I have resisted the
>requests by Microsoft to _create_ a mothership tracking account.
>
>About the only thing you "lose" today, at least with Windows 10, by not
>having a Microsoft mothership tracking account, AFAIK, is the ability to
>download "some" apps from the Microsoft Store (but who cares about them?).
>
>In my humble experience, there's only garbage (or duplicates) in that MS
>Store, so you still retain what I'd call "full functionality" without
>having that login to the Microsoft tracking servers on Windows 10.
>
>But it was my understanding that Windows 11 Home _required_ a mothership
>account?
>
>I clearly understand you are saying that it does not.
>Is that correct?
>
>Am I wrong then, to assume that Windows 11 _required_ a mothership account?

Well just to reiterate - I have never had a Microsoft account or needed one
to set up any version of Windows on my computers, including Windows 11. I
do recall multiple times where they have tried to get me to sign up for the
account or made it seem like you HAD to set up the account, but I always
just ignored them and found ways around it. I can't remember specifically
what I did, but I don't think it involved registry changes or anything like
that, unless I'm just mis-remembering. I think you just have to be
persistent and essentially say "no".

--