On 02/01/2022 07.49, Rich wrote:
> 1.AAC0831 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>> On 12/31/21 7:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 31/12/2021 01.59, 1.AAC0831 wrote: For that, you can use
>>> installation definition files. Depends on the distro.
>>
>> Ummm ... we seem to be reading from two different scripts here and
>> talking past each other.
>
> You *are* talking past each other.
>
> You are talking about machines that netboot the OS that runs on the
> machine while it is in normal use by users. With likely NFS mounting
> the files the OS uses and the user's local files onto the same machine
> (i.e., a "thin client" senario).
>
> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
> netboot. Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
> disk.
>
> In a senario of a server farm, with possibly hundreds of "empty
> machines" being installed in racks that then need an OS installation on
> them, using netboot to boot the installer, and then fetching the
> install packages (rpm's, deb's, etc.) over the network means no one has
> to "walk the racks" with a DVD or USB stick to "install an OS" on each
> new machine mounted into the racks.
>

Exactly.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 1/2/22 7:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 02/01/2022 06.00, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>> On 1/1/22 4:29 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 01/01/2022 04.26, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>> On 12/31/21 7:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 31/12/2021 01.59, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/30/21 5:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/12/2021 05.56, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/28/21 8:57 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 29/12/2021 02.33, 1667p1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/26/21 8:34 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-25 12:04, 1667p1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/24/21 3:30 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-23 23:02, 1667p1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/21 5:03 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from usb?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Network booting is also an option when installing an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a server.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     You still have to have an installation to boot from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you don't.  That's the whole point of network booting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The PXE boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ROM on the network card fetches everything needed to boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> via TFTP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preboot_Execution_Environment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Fetches it from the magical realm ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Sorry, but *somewhere* there's an installation. Either
>>>>>>>>>>>>    you have it on a local server or you have to boot from
>>>>>>>>>>>>    someone elses (probably ill-tuned) from the Net. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>    the latter, you need a really fast connection given
>>>>>>>>>>>>    the sheer size of most modern distros.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sure the netboot files have to live on a (local) server.  But
>>>>>>>>>>> those few
>>>>>>>>>>> files are vastly different (and smaller) than a complete
>>>>>>>>>>> installation of
>>>>>>>>>>> that same OS on that netboot server.  One netboot server,
>>>>>>>>>>> running nearly
>>>>>>>>>>> any OS, can serve up dozens of other OSes for netbooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if you want to netboot Debian, all you need is
>>>>>>>>>>> to unpack
>>>>>>>>>>> one small (~37MB) netboot.tar.gz image on any machine running
>>>>>>>>>>> a TFTP daemon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.debian.org/PXEBootInstall#Provide_the_boot_image
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    So where's my ZOOM client ? My LibreOffice ? My SSH ?
>>>>>>>>>>    My compilers ? My GIMP ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the network.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, while you might be
>>>>>>>>>>    barely able to boot a cut-back Linux kernel from a
>>>>>>>>>>    37k
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> M, not K.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> file there's also all the STUFF that runs ON it
>>>>>>>>>>    and that can be a good gigabyte depending.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    The net-boot might make it easier to do basic kernel
>>>>>>>>>>    upgrades, but all that OTHER stuff needs updates too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from
>>>>>>>>> the net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply,
>>>>>>>>> just by knowing the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You
>>>>>>>>> could even start it, then leave for another machine, leave the
>>>>>>>>> first one running. Or install a dozen machines at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    So there IS an "installation" out there, somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. There is a server somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    How limited ... and slow ...........
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Don't think I'll do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    An install on an M2 card in the box - that's the
>>>>>>>>    way to go. Snappy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Unless it's seriously data-churning apps that are
>>>>>>>>    in mind - magnetics are better for those, not so
>>>>>>>>    much "fatigue" factor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You change opinion when you have to install or update a hundred
>>>>>>> machines in a single building..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And no, it is not slow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A little quicker now with gigabit+ networking. In the
>>>>>>    "old" days though ... gee, even a gigbit/s is about 100mb/s
>>>>>>    after overhead while a SATA-III drive is six times faster
>>>>>>    (in theory) and an M2 card even quicker for a variety of
>>>>>>    reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering that we are talking install, not daily processing, as
>>>>> the alternative is using a CD/DVD or USB stick, then the network
>>>>> can be faster.
>>>>>
>>>>> And considering we are installing a hundred machines, meaning a
>>>>> hundred CDs that have to be burned, or alternatively install them
>>>>> in succession. Slow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Man, booting over the network and installations are actually done
>>>>> on places with many machines, by many admins. They must have their
>>>>> reasons, they are not dumb people.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Anyway, I'd consider your "server somewhere" the rough
>>>>>>    equivalent of a distribution - executables with a matched
>>>>>>    kernel (and a few other things).
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, it can be a Windows server. Just an ftp or http server. Not
>>>>> an installation.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I do understand the "too many installations" issue, how
>>>>>>    to deal depends on your environment and how you set up
>>>>>>    the update process. Most Linux distros these days CAN
>>>>>>    auto-update, and if they can't you can make them do so.
>>>>>>    A few distros - I think Oracle and RHEL and maybe FreeBSD -
>>>>>>    are rigged so you never even need to reboot them even after
>>>>>>    extensive system-file updates (you *should* though :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    If you have a shop with 100 Winders boxes, well, each
>>>>>>    will autoinstall what it can and pester the user to
>>>>>>    reboot to finish the job. This largely undermines the
>>>>>>    value of a network-based single "distribution" unless
>>>>>>    the boss is a hyper-control-freak.
>>>>>
>>>>> For that, you can use installation definition files. Depends on the
>>>>> distro.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Ummm ...  we seem to be reading from two different scripts
>>>>    here and talking past each other.
>>>>
>>>>    First off, as this is a linux group, let's forget Winders.
>>>>
>>>>    To run linux you first need the OS core to start. You can
>>>>    indeed load it from a network location. I'm supposing it
>>>>    actually runs on YOUR box - though you could be running
>>>>    a very thin client and basically getting the equiv of
>>>>    a remote virtual screen of it running on the server kinda
>>>>    like with VNC or a local KVM virtual machine.
>>>
>>>
>>> The point I'm trying to make is that you can run the installation
>>> system on any machine of a datacenter, booting from the LAN; and no,
>>> there doesn't need to be any other install in the LAN. The boot
>>> server can be running any operating system, it is irrelevant. It is
>>> just an FTP server, not a Linux installation necesarily.
>>>
>>> It probably is a Linux server, but it may be a different distribution
>>> and different kernel than the machine that is being booted. Unrelated
>>> systems.
>>
>>    I understand that, a PXE server can be set up in Linux
>>    or Winders.
>>
>>    WHAT you're booting, WHERE all the associated files are,
>>    my question remains the same - "Why ?".
>
> Already explained.
>
> I'm not going to wasste my time explaining it again.

On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
> 1.AAC0831 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>> On 12/31/21 7:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 31/12/2021 01.59, 1.AAC0831 wrote: For that, you can use
>>> installation definition files. Depends on the distro.
>>
>> Ummm ... we seem to be reading from two different scripts here and
>> talking past each other.
>
> You *are* talking past each other.

Yes, we figured out that much.

> You are talking about machines that netboot the OS that runs on the
> machine while it is in normal use by users. With likely NFS mounting
> the files the OS uses and the user's local files onto the same machine
> (i.e., a "thin client" senario).

Never use NFS ... Samba/CIFS is better and more secure.

I do understand PXE netbooting - I've set it up before.
I just don't *like* it.

Our preliminary issue was one of how we each tend to
define "distribution".

> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
> netboot. Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
> disk.

Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE
server and basically load a centralized "distribution" of
kernel/OS/user-apps "as-needed" from some server. "Very thin
clients" for all intents and purposes, possibly even diskless.

What you described is more "net install" - like many distros
offer these days. Usually gives you more desktop options and
all of (todays) latest files.

I called that harmony of kernel/OS/apps a "distribution"
but he didn't see it that way.

In HIS scheme, there's really only ONE set of those files.
This makes updates easy and everybody loads the new stuff
tomorrow morning.

Me, I've seen bad things from such central approaches and
see more strength (and freedom) in full local traditional
distro installs set to auto-update. Diversity CAN be
strength.

It's mostly a philosophical matter, not anything technical.

> In a senario of a server farm, with possibly hundreds of "empty
> machines" being installed in racks that then need an OS installation on
> them, using netboot to boot the installer, and then fetching the
> install packages (rpm's, deb's, etc.) over the network means no one has
> to "walk the racks" with a DVD or USB stick to "install an OS" on each
> new machine mounted into the racks.
>

On 03/01/2022 03:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:

>   Never use NFS ... Samba/CIFS is better and more secure.
>
Always use NFS.

It preserves permissions across the network and is designed for *nix systems

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

On 03/01/2022 14.05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/01/2022 03:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>
>>    Never use NFS ... Samba/CIFS is better and more secure.
>>
> Always use NFS.
>
> It preserves permissions across the network and is designed for *nix
> systems

+1

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2022-01-02 22:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
> On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
>> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
>> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
>> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
>> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
>> netboot.  Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
>> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
>> disk.
>
>   Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
>   was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE

Rich is right and you are wrong. Carlos wasn't talking about normal
use. Nor was I before I gave up on the conversation.

Carlos and I were both talking about netbooting as a way to start a
netinstaller, starting with Carlos' comment and my response to it back
on 2021-12-17:

] On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
]]
]] What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or from usb?
] ] Network booting is also an option when installing an operating system on
] a server.

You then jumped in to that conversation with your mis-understanding and
started ranting against the idea for daily use. I tried to clarify in
my message on 2021-12-26:

] I.e., to install an OS to a local disk, you can first netboot the
] installer so that you don't need either a boot CD or USB stick to
] install from.

But you completely ignored that part of my post. I tried again on
2021-12-29:

] You're still missing the point that netbooting was mentioned solely as a
] way to launch the installer, as an alternative to CD or USB stick. You
] don't routinely boot the installer from CD or USB for day-to-day use, do
] you? No. Same applies to netbooting.

On 2021-12-28 Carlos wrote:

] The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from the
] net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply, just by knowing
] the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You could even start it, then
] leave for another machine, leave the first one running. Or install a
] dozen machines at the same time.
] ] The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.

Here, he too is clearly talking about netbooting as a way to start a
netinstall.

Then on 2021-12-31 Carlos wrote:

] Considering that we are talking install, not daily processing, [...]

Finally, on 2022-01-02, replying to the exact same post that you just
replied to, Carlos wrote simply:

] Exactly.

So, why, do you still insist on talking about netbooting for day to day
use when you have been told multiple times by me, by Carlos, and now by
Rich that that's not the case we were discussing?

On 1/3/22 1:53 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 03/01/2022 14.05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/01/2022 03:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>
>>>    Never use NFS ... Samba/CIFS is better and more secure.
>>>
>> Always use NFS.
>>
>> It preserves permissions across the network and is designed for *nix
>> systems
>
> +1

Never use NFS. The nasty term for it is "No File Security".

It's also slower than Samba/CIFS these days.

Sure, with a LOT of work you can make it "more secure",
but why bother ?

On 1/3/22 3:11 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>
> On 2022-01-02 22:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>> On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
>>> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
>>> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
>>> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
>>> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
>>> netboot.  Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
>>> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
>>> disk.
>>
>>   Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
>>   was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE
>
> Rich is right and you are wrong. Carlos wasn't talking about normal
> use. Nor was I before I gave up on the conversation.
>
> Carlos and I were both talking about netbooting as a way to start a
> netinstaller, starting with Carlos' comment and my response to it back
> on 2021-12-17:
>
> ] On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> ]]
> ]] What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or from usb?
> ]
> ] Network booting is also an option when installing an operating system on
> ] a server.
>
> You then jumped in to that conversation with your mis-understanding and
> started ranting against the idea for daily use. I tried to clarify in
> my message on 2021-12-26:
>
> ] I.e., to install an OS to a local disk, you can first netboot the
> ] installer so that you don't need either a boot CD or USB stick to
> ] install from.
>
> But you completely ignored that part of my post. I tried again on
> 2021-12-29:
>
> ] You're still missing the point that netbooting was mentioned solely as a
> ] way to launch the installer, as an alternative to CD or USB stick. You
> ] don't routinely boot the installer from CD or USB for day-to-day use, do
> ] you? No. Same applies to netbooting.
>
> On 2021-12-28 Carlos wrote:
>
> ] The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from the
> ] net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply, just by knowing
> ] the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You could even start it, then
> ] leave for another machine, leave the first one running. Or install a
> ] dozen machines at the same time.
> ]
> ] The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.

That was one of the things he said ... but he was also
talking about booting all machines from one master distro
as a way to centralize updates.

He also denied that any "distro"-like-thing was involved
whereas I disagreed.

So which "vision" is the real one ?

In any case, you don't need a PXE boot to install a
distro on your box. Just do it the old-fashioned way
and allow auto-updates thereafter.

As such, I concluded that he was talking about running
something like "thin clients".

This is not a war between me and Carlos. It's mostly
disparate notions of what certain terms mean and what
is the "best" way to set up lots of users. I'll defend
him before I diss him ... sorry, no flame-war.

Alas, almost anywhere you go, those users are running
Winders, not Linux ... lucky if you find two or three
power users who most always run Linux. The Winders
people ... maybe it IS safer to just give them a
'terminal server' view of things - they can do less
damage that way :-)

> Here, he too is clearly talking about netbooting as a way to start a
> netinstall.
>
> Then on 2021-12-31 Carlos wrote:
>
> ] Considering that we are talking install, not daily processing, [...]
>
> Finally, on 2022-01-02, replying to the exact same post that you just
> replied to, Carlos wrote simply:
>
> ] Exactly.
>
> So, why, do you still insist on talking about netbooting for day to day
> use when you have been told multiple times by me, by Carlos, and now by
> Rich that that's not the case we were discussing?
>

On 04/01/2022 06.48, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
> On 1/3/22 3:11 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-01-02 22:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>> On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
>>>> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
>>>> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
>>>> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
>>>> netboot.  Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
>>>> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
>>>> disk.
>>>
>>>    Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
>>>    was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE
>>
>> Rich is right and you are wrong.  Carlos wasn't talking about normal
>> use.  Nor was I before I gave up on the conversation.
>>
>> Carlos and I were both talking about netbooting as a way to start a
>> netinstaller, starting with Carlos' comment and my response to it back
>> on 2021-12-17:
>>
>> ] On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> ]]
>> ]] What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or from usb?
>> ]
>> ] Network booting is also an option when installing an operating
>> system on
>> ] a server.
>>
>> You then jumped in to that conversation with your mis-understanding and
>> started ranting against the idea for daily use.  I tried to clarify in
>> my message on 2021-12-26:
>>
>> ] I.e., to install an OS to a local disk, you can first netboot the
>> ] installer so that you don't need either a boot CD or USB stick to
>> ] install from.
>>
>> But you completely ignored that part of my post.  I tried again on
>> 2021-12-29:
>>
>> ] You're still missing the point that netbooting was mentioned solely
>> as a
>> ] way to launch the installer, as an alternative to CD or USB stick.  You
>> ] don't routinely boot the installer from CD or USB for day-to-day
>> use, do
>> ] you?  No.  Same applies to netbooting.
>>
>> On 2021-12-28 Carlos wrote:
>>
>> ] The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from the
>> ] net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply, just by
>> knowing
>> ] the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You could even start it,
>> then
>> ] leave for another machine, leave the first one running. Or install a
>> ] dozen machines at the same time.
>> ]
>> ] The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.
>
>
>   That was one of the things he said ... but he was also
>   talking about booting all machines from one master distro
>   as a way to centralize updates.

Nope, I did not say that.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 04/01/2022 05:26, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
> On 1/3/22 1:53 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 03/01/2022 14.05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2022 03:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>
>>>>    Never use NFS ... Samba/CIFS is better and more secure.
>>>>
>>> Always use NFS.
>>>
>>> It preserves permissions across the network and is designed for *nix
>>> systems
>>
>> +1
>
>   Never use NFS. The nasty term for it is "No File Security".
>
How much security do you need in a home network?

>   It's also slower than Samba/CIFS these days.
>
not here it aint.

>   Sure, with a LOT of work you can make it "more secure",
>   but why bother ?
>

nothing secure about SAMBA either.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 1/4/22 6:51 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 04/01/2022 06.48, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>> On 1/3/22 3:11 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2022-01-02 22:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>> On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>>> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
>>>>> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that make up
>>>>> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
>>>>> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
>>>>> netboot.  Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
>>>>> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
>>>>> disk.
>>>>
>>>>    Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
>>>>    was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE
>>>
>>> Rich is right and you are wrong.  Carlos wasn't talking about normal
>>> use.  Nor was I before I gave up on the conversation.
>>>
>>> Carlos and I were both talking about netbooting as a way to start a
>>> netinstaller, starting with Carlos' comment and my response to it back
>>> on 2021-12-17:
>>>
>>> ] On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> ]]
>>> ]] What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or from usb?
>>> ]
>>> ] Network booting is also an option when installing an operating
>>> system on
>>> ] a server.
>>>
>>> You then jumped in to that conversation with your mis-understanding and
>>> started ranting against the idea for daily use.  I tried to clarify in
>>> my message on 2021-12-26:
>>>
>>> ] I.e., to install an OS to a local disk, you can first netboot the
>>> ] installer so that you don't need either a boot CD or USB stick to
>>> ] install from.
>>>
>>> But you completely ignored that part of my post.  I tried again on
>>> 2021-12-29:
>>>
>>> ] You're still missing the point that netbooting was mentioned solely
>>> as a
>>> ] way to launch the installer, as an alternative to CD or USB stick.
>>> You
>>> ] don't routinely boot the installer from CD or USB for day-to-day
>>> use, do
>>> ] you?  No.  Same applies to netbooting.
>>>
>>> On 2021-12-28 Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>> ] The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from the
>>> ] net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply, just by
>>> knowing
>>> ] the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You could even start it,
>>> then
>>> ] leave for another machine, leave the first one running. Or install a
>>> ] dozen machines at the same time.
>>> ]
>>> ] The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.
>>
>>
>>    That was one of the things he said ... but he was also
>>    talking about booting all machines from one master distro
>>    as a way to centralize updates.
>
> Nope, I did not say that.

That's how I read it - you kept claiming no 'distros' were
involved anywhere.

But, not important.

You do it your way.

We will both get what we want.

On 05/01/2022 06.54, 1.AAC0832 wrote:
> On 1/4/22 6:51 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 04/01/2022 06.48, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>> On 1/3/22 3:11 PM, John-Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-02 22:11, 1.AAC0831 wrote:
>>>>> On 1/2/22 1:49 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>>>> Carlos is talking about netbooting the installer for a distribution,
>>>>>> which then fetches the various files (rpm's, deb's, etc.) that
>>>>>> make up
>>>>>> that distribution (i.e., Redhat, Debian, etc.) over the network to
>>>>>> install the OS onto the otherwise empty disk in the machine doing the
>>>>>> netboot.  Once that machines empty disk has an OS installed, that
>>>>>> machine thereafter boots from its local disk and runs from its local
>>>>>> disk.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Ummmmmm .... I don't think that's what he really meant. He
>>>>>    was talking about machines that ALWAYS boot from the PXE
>>>>
>>>> Rich is right and you are wrong.  Carlos wasn't talking about normal
>>>> use.  Nor was I before I gave up on the conversation.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos and I were both talking about netbooting as a way to start a
>>>> netinstaller, starting with Carlos' comment and my response to it back
>>>> on 2021-12-17:
>>>>
>>>> ] On 2021-12-17 16:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> ]]
>>>> ]] What about servers, do they prefer to install from CD or from usb?
>>>> ]
>>>> ] Network booting is also an option when installing an operating
>>>> system on
>>>> ] a server.
>>>>
>>>> You then jumped in to that conversation with your mis-understanding and
>>>> started ranting against the idea for daily use.  I tried to clarify in
>>>> my message on 2021-12-26:
>>>>
>>>> ] I.e., to install an OS to a local disk, you can first netboot the
>>>> ] installer so that you don't need either a boot CD or USB stick to
>>>> ] install from.
>>>>
>>>> But you completely ignored that part of my post.  I tried again on
>>>> 2021-12-29:
>>>>
>>>> ] You're still missing the point that netbooting was mentioned
>>>> solely as a
>>>> ] way to launch the installer, as an alternative to CD or USB stick.
>>>> You
>>>> ] don't routinely boot the installer from CD or USB for day-to-day
>>>> use, do
>>>> ] you?  No.  Same applies to netbooting.
>>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-28 Carlos wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ] The machine boots, then downloads and installs everything from the
>>>> ] net. You can install a new machine anytime, very simply, just by
>>>> knowing
>>>> ] the correct incantation. Nothing to carry. You could even start
>>>> it, then
>>>> ] leave for another machine, leave the first one running. Or install a
>>>> ] dozen machines at the same time.
>>>> ]
>>>> ] The machine might have no dvd, nor usb.
>>>
>>>
>>>    That was one of the things he said ... but he was also
>>>    talking about booting all machines from one master distro
>>>    as a way to centralize updates.
>>
>> Nope, I did not say that.
>
>
>   That's how I read it - you kept claiming no 'distros' were
>   involved anywhere.

Certainly, but I was talking about doing installations via netboot, not
about running them.

>
>   But, not important.
>
>   You do it your way.
>
>   We will both get what we want.

--
Cheers, Carlos.