"Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote

|
| BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
| the profiles incompatible.
|

That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
but not from older TBird? Crazy.

I've been backing up those folders
for years now. For the record, unless they've changed
something, you can parse the email files if necessary in
order to save old emails. Each email is stored as plain text,
one after another, with the beginning of each identifiable
by a line starting with "From - ".

On 10/19/2023 8:41 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
>
> |
> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
> | the profiles incompatible.
> |
>
> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
> but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>
> I've been backing up those folders
> for years now. For the record, unless they've changed
> something, you can parse the email files if necessary in
> order to save old emails. Each email is stored as plain text,
> one after another, with the beginning of each identifiable
> by a line starting with "From - ".

Migrating and Importing are two different things.

Compatibility.ini <=== this file in the folder, tracks what level the folder is at

[Compatibility]
LastVersion=115
LastOSABI=WINNT_x86-msvc <=== 32-bit compiled with Visual Studio compiler/linker
LastPlatformDir=C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird
LastAppDir=C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird

On a migration, you do this. Every logical structure, you try
and migrate it, and prepare it for the new API. Maybe you manage
to preserve the password file so it actually works (or, maybe not).
This gives the very highest degree of convenience.

112 115
+--------+ +--------+
| Folder | ==> | Folder |
|Contents| |Contents|
+--------+ +--------+

Whereas if you request "importation", only very select things are
imported. These would be things that follow open standards (MBOX).
Mork files, maybe. Weird metadata containers, maybe not. Abook.mab
is handled separately as a menu item (Import Address Book). There is a
list somewhere, of what is imported.

Outlook 115
+--------+ +--------+
| Inbox | ==> | Inbox |
| Sent | | Sent |
+--------+ +--------+

Ed's statement means you will be inconvenienced (by having to Import),
but not dead in the water.

*******

When you give the "downgrade" directive from the command line, in
Thunderbird, I would guess that this is Importation and will require
some cleanup. That would get you from 115 to 112, by moving your
Inbox and Sent or similar, to a new folder created during installation.

Without a user manual, you need forensic skills to figure out how
your software works. And some of the documentation on the Mozilla
server, is yonks old and out of date. Portions of it haven't changed,
but I always feel "nervous" when reading that harvest gold of theirs.
For example, prefs.js, there likely isn't a *complete* up-to-date
table anywhere for that. Just old complete tables of info, that you
cannot trust. Only the developers crib sheet, has the real user manual
info.

Paul

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
[...]

[About Thunderbird versions, specifically new v115 versus older ones:]

> I still don't understand all this hoopla. Why can't people just
> go back to a version they like and add a policies.json file if
> necessary to block updates? With a browser there's at least
> some logic to the idea of getting ssecurity updates. But email?
> What's really different between my v. 52 and v. 115 in terms of
> actual functionality? Javascript should be blocked, so there's
> little or no security issue. TLS is up to date in older versions.
>
> So many people are still thinking like it's the 90s, looking
> forward to the next software version because it will actually
> have useful, new stuff. These days it usually doesn't. In fact,
> most software developers no longer even list changes. I've never
> had a problem with T52. I install the same on Win7 and Win10.
> It's never crashed and it handles my extensions.

+<very_large_number>

I use 60.9.0, a version just before they went weird.

And you use the even much older Outlook Express. And my newsreader is
of Sept 2003, probably even older than your Outlook Express.

Moral: Don't 'fix' what ain't broken!

On 2023-10-20 02:41, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
>
> |
> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
> | the profiles incompatible.
> |
>
> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
> but not from older TBird? Crazy.

That's not what he said.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
>
> |
> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
> | the profiles incompatible.
> |
>
> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
> but not from older TBird? Crazy.

I think he means that you can't use an old Thunderbird version with a
'new' (>=v115) format profile. That's understandable, provided that
their was/is a good reason to change the format of the profile.

Paul seems to indicate that an old format profile is (automatically)
'migrated' to a new format profile. He also seems to indicate that there
is some method to 'down'migrate a new format profile to an old format
one.

All in all, reasons for not even thinking about updating/'upgrading'
Thunderbird to a newer version, let alone to v115.

> I've been backing up those folders
> for years now. For the record, unless they've changed
> something, you can parse the email files if necessary in
> order to save old emails. Each email is stored as plain text,
> one after another, with the beginning of each identifiable
> by a line starting with "From - ".

I'm also doing a file-level backup (and an image backup). My profile
is currently 1.8GB, 1350 files, don't know how many (mostly email)
messages.

As you say, whatever happens, we can always get at the mbox-like
source format of our messages.

"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid>

| For example, prefs.js, there likely isn't a *complete* up-to-date
| table anywhere for that. Just old complete tables of info, that you
| cannot trust. Only the developers crib sheet, has the real user manual
| info.
|

I decided to document all of those myself a few years ago.
I never did find full docs from any year. In many cases when
I looked up an in-use pref, the only mentions I could find
would be mozilla bug reports or in-house chats. Other settings
work but don't exist by default. The closer you get, the more
it looks like a project done by 5 drunk college students.

It's amazing that given the ubiquity of email, TBird is pretty much
the only choice. Outlook is a pig and it's Microsoft, with all
the cloud coercion BS. Agent? $30. I've never tried it. Their
website doesn't even say what Windows versions are supported.
And it seems that MS never quite came up with a replacement
for OE that "just works". And it's not as though the requirements
are complex. A program needs to provide a text window, an
organizing GUI, and be able to handle binaries. I haven't ever seen
a program that can send unbutchered HTML email, so even that's
not a requirement.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| > | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by
making
| > | the profiles incompatible.
| > |
| >
| > That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
| > but not from older TBird? Crazy.
| | That's not what he said.
|

Sorry, I worded it wrong. But I understood what he meant.
We're talking about a program that can recognize and import
email from other programs, but can't process its own app data
between some versions without intervention because they broke
backward compatibility in their own software. The whole point
of app data is that it's just the data and remains between
versions.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
[...]

> It's amazing that given the ubiquity of email, TBird is pretty much
> the only choice. Outlook is a pig and it's Microsoft, with all
> the cloud coercion BS. Agent? $30. I've never tried it. Their
> website doesn't even say what Windows versions are supported.
> And it seems that MS never quite came up with a replacement
> for OE that "just works". And it's not as though the requirements
> are complex. A program needs to provide a text window, an
> organizing GUI, and be able to handle binaries. I haven't ever seen
> a program that can send unbutchered HTML email, so even that's
> not a requirement.

'Comparison of email clients'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients>

Lists many, many email clients, but only a few which I've seen that
users actually mention and (somewhat) like.

And indeed, Microsoft should have included an e-mail agent like
OutLook Express and Windows Mail (*not* Windows Live Mail). Both were
quite decent and could have been made to continue to work. All we have
now is the stupid, non-functional, Mail 'app'.

On 2023-10-20 14:59, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | > | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by
> making
> | > | the profiles incompatible.
> | > |
> | >
> | > That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
> | > but not from older TBird? Crazy.
> |
> | That's not what he said.
> |
>
> Sorry, I worded it wrong. But I understood what he meant.
> We're talking about a program that can recognize and import
> email from other programs, but can't process its own app data
> between some versions without intervention because they broke
> backward compatibility in their own software. The whole point
> of app data is that it's just the data and remains between
> versions.

It is quite common that when you update an app, you can not go back
because the old version doesn't understand the config of the old one.

Although there is a command line option (I don't remember it) that helps
in this situation (thunderbird).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-10-20 14:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
>>
>> |
>> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
>> | the profiles incompatible.
>> |
>>
>> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
>> but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>
> I think he means that you can't use an old Thunderbird version with a
> 'new' (>=v115) format profile. That's understandable, provided that
> their was/is a good reason to change the format of the profile.
>
> Paul seems to indicate that an old format profile is (automatically)
> 'migrated' to a new format profile. He also seems to indicate that there
> is some method to 'down'migrate a new format profile to an old format
> one.
>
> All in all, reasons for not even thinking about updating/'upgrading'
> Thunderbird to a newer version, let alone to v115.

Not at all.

Just make a backup before upgrading.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/20/2023 7:47 AM, Newyana2 wrote:

> It's amazing that given the ubiquity of email, TBird is pretty much
> the only choice. Outlook is a pig and it's Microsoft, with all
> the cloud coercion BS. Agent? $30. I've never tried it. Their
> website doesn't even say what Windows versions are supported.
> And it seems that MS never quite came up with a replacement
> for OE that "just works". And it's not as though the requirements
> are complex. A program needs to provide a text window, an
> organizing GUI, and be able to handle binaries. I haven't ever seen
> a program that can send unbutchered HTML email, so even that's
> not a requirement.
>

According to the AlternativeTo Web site, the best Windows alternative to
Thunderbird is Claws Mail.
https://alternativeto.net/software/claws-mail/about/

I thought I would give it a try. Have you tried it?

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-10-20 14:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
> >>
> >> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
> >> | the profiles incompatible.
> >>
> >> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
> >> but not from older TBird? Crazy.
> >
> > I think he means that you can't use an old Thunderbird version with a
> > 'new' (>=v115) format profile. That's understandable, provided that
> > their was/is a good reason to change the format of the profile.
> >
> > Paul seems to indicate that an old format profile is (automatically)
> > 'migrated' to a new format profile. He also seems to indicate that there
> > is some method to 'down'migrate a new format profile to an old format
> > one.
> >
> > All in all, reasons for not even thinking about updating/'upgrading'
> > Thunderbird to a newer version, let alone to v115.
>
> Not at all.
>
> Just make a backup before upgrading.

That's not my point. As I mentioned - also in an exchange with you -
I have a very old version - 60.9.0 - and - like Newyana2 - have no
intention of updating/'upgrading' to anything newer, let alone the
problem ridden, silly looking v115.

As I said a bit earlier: Don't 'fix' what ain't broken.

If you want to use the latest and 'greatest', fine by me, just not my
choice.

On 2023-10-20 16:32, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-10-20 14:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by making
>>>> | the profiles incompatible.
>>>>
>>>> That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
>>>> but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>>>
>>> I think he means that you can't use an old Thunderbird version with a
>>> 'new' (>=v115) format profile. That's understandable, provided that
>>> their was/is a good reason to change the format of the profile.
>>>
>>> Paul seems to indicate that an old format profile is (automatically)
>>> 'migrated' to a new format profile. He also seems to indicate that there
>>> is some method to 'down'migrate a new format profile to an old format
>>> one.
>>>
>>> All in all, reasons for not even thinking about updating/'upgrading'
>>> Thunderbird to a newer version, let alone to v115.
>>
>> Not at all.
>>
>> Just make a backup before upgrading.
>
> That's not my point. As I mentioned - also in an exchange with you -
> I have a very old version - 60.9.0 - and - like Newyana2 - have no
> intention of updating/'upgrading' to anything newer, let alone the
> problem ridden, silly looking v115.

I'm using 115 and I only have a non blocking issue with it.

I was simply advised to make a backup before updating just in case I did
not like it. I did not like it, but I got used to it and didn't need to
go back.

> As I said a bit earlier: Don't 'fix' what ain't broken.
>
> If you want to use the latest and 'greatest', fine by me, just not my
> choice.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/20/2023 9:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-20 14:59, Newyana2 wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>> | > | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by
>> making
>> | > | the profiles incompatible.
>> | > |
>> | >
>> | >    That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
>> | > but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>> |
>> | That's not what he said.
>> |
>>
>>    Sorry, I worded it wrong. But I understood what he meant.
>> We're talking about a program that can recognize and import
>> email from other programs, but can't process its own app data
>> between some versions without intervention because they broke
>> backward compatibility in their own software. The whole point
>> of app data is that it's just the data and remains between
>> versions.
>
> It is quite common that when you update an app, you can not go back because the old version doesn't understand the config of the old one.
>
> Although there is a command line option (I don't remember it) that helps in this situation (thunderbird).
>

Downgrade option, from command line.

And no, this is unlikely to work in any platform :-)

thunderbird --help

because while they accept certain parameters from the
command line, they're not willing to admit people run
it from the command line like that.

Wouldn't it be amazing, if Thunderbird had a man page ?
Well, I don't see a downgrade option in there. I would guess
the manual page was written by a Debian contributor when Mozilla
would not write one (parameter list perhaps valid for Thunderbird 2.0).

https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/thunderbird/thunderbird.1.en.html

--migration
Start with migration wizard. May require -no-remote, see below.

Versus me just picking a random support forum thread.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1319613

thunderbird.exe --allow-downgrade -p "%APPDATA%\Thunderbird\Profiles\old-TB-profile-name-78-5-1"

I have sent an archeology team, to dig up the remains of Thunderbird
and see "what gives"... :-)

OK, nsApprunner.cpp might be it. This routine is disingenuous, because
Thunderbird never dumps any help if you make a syntax error. Not in
Windows at least.

Notice that "allow-downgrade" is protected by ifdef MOZ_BLOCK_PROFILE_DOWNGRADE Yikes!!!
That means some version of TBird, will just
ignore that option. And of course, not tell
you that the option is being ignored, because...
nitwits.

*******************************************************************************
// English text needs to go into a dtd file.
// But when this is called we have no components etc. These strings must either
// be here, or in a native resource file.
static void DumpHelp() {
printf(
"Usage: %s [ options ... ] [URL]\n"
" where options include:\n\n",
gArgv[0]);

#ifdef MOZ_X11
printf(
"X11 options\n"
" --display=DISPLAY X display to use\n"
" --sync Make X calls synchronous\n");
#endif
#ifdef XP_UNIX
printf(
" --g-fatal-warnings Make all warnings fatal\n"
"\n%s options\n",
(const char*)gAppData->name);
#endif

printf(
" -h or --help Print this message.\n"
" -v or --version Print %s version.\n"
" --full-version Print %s version, build and platform build ids.\n"
" -P <profile> Start with <profile>.\n"
" --profile <path> Start with profile at <path>.\n"
" --migration Start with migration wizard.\n"
" --ProfileManager Start with ProfileManager.\n"
#ifdef MOZ_HAS_REMOTE
" --no-remote Do not accept or send remote commands; implies\n"
" --new-instance.\n"
" --new-instance Open new instance, not a new window in running "
"instance.\n"
#endif
" --safe-mode Disables extensions and themes for this session.\n"
#ifdef MOZ_BLOCK_PROFILE_DOWNGRADE
" --allow-downgrade Allows downgrading a profile.\n"
#endif
" --MOZ_LOG=<modules> Treated as MOZ_LOG=<modules> environment "
"variable,\n"
" overrides it.\n"
" --MOZ_LOG_FILE=<file> Treated as MOZ_LOG_FILE=<file> environment "
"variable,\n"
" overrides it. If MOZ_LOG_FILE is not specified as "
"an\n"
" argument or as an environment variable, logging "
"will be\n"
" written to stdout.\n",
(const char*)gAppData->name, (const char*)gAppData->name);

#if defined(XP_WIN)
printf(" --console Start %s with a debugging console.\n",
(const char*)gAppData->name);
#endif

#if defined(XP_WIN) || defined(MOZ_WIDGET_GTK) || defined(XP_MACOSX)
printf(" --headless Run without a GUI.\n");
#endif

// this works, but only after the components have registered. so if you drop
// in a new command line handler, --help won't not until the second run. out
// of the bug, because we ship a component.reg file, it works correctly.
DumpArbitraryHelp(); <=== Indeed, doesn't that say it all ?
} *******************************************************************************

I will stop there, because now I'm getting angry, as I search the next ply.

"Our code is our documentation", yup, in a tin hat.

How could you work in a room, with so much snickering going on ?

Paul

On 10/20/2023 5:10 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 10/20/2023 9:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-20 14:59, Newyana2 wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>
>>> | > | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by
>>> making
>>> | > | the profiles incompatible.
>>> | > |
>>> | >
>>> | >    That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
>>> | > but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>>> |
>>> | That's not what he said.
>>> |
>>>
>>>    Sorry, I worded it wrong. But I understood what he meant.
>>> We're talking about a program that can recognize and import
>>> email from other programs, but can't process its own app data
>>> between some versions without intervention because they broke
>>> backward compatibility in their own software. The whole point
>>> of app data is that it's just the data and remains between
>>> versions.
>>
>> It is quite common that when you update an app, you can not go back because the old version doesn't understand the config of the old one.
>>
>> Although there is a command line option (I don't remember it) that helps in this situation (thunderbird).
>>

This is the output in Linux. To help the Windows users :-)

$ thunderbird --full-version
Thunderbird 115.3.1 20230928194049 20230928194049

$ thunderbird -h
Usage: thunderbird [ options ... ] [URL]
where options include:

X11 options \
--display=DISPLAY X display to use \___ This section does not appear in Windows
--sync Make X calls synchronous /
--g-fatal-warnings Make all warnings fatal /

Thunderbird options
-h or --help Print this message.
-v or --version Print Thunderbird version.
--full-version Print Thunderbird version, build and platform build ids.

-P <profile> Start with <profile>.
--profile <path> Start with profile at <path>.
--migration Start with migration wizard. <=== no wizard seen
--ProfileManager Start with ProfileManager.
--no-remote Do not accept or send remote commands; implies
--new-instance.
--new-instance Open new instance, not a new window in running instance.
--safe-mode Disables extensions and themes for this session.
--allow-downgrade Allows downgrading a profile.
--MOZ_LOG=<modules> Treated as MOZ_LOG=<modules> environment variable,
overrides it.
--MOZ_LOG_FILE=<file> Treated as MOZ_LOG_FILE=<file> environment variable,
overrides it. If MOZ_LOG_FILE is not specified as an
argument or as an environment variable, logging will be
written to stdout.
--headless Run without a GUI.
-compose [ <options> ] Compose a mail or news message. Options are specified
as string "option='value,...',option=value,..." and
include: from, to, cc, bcc, newsgroups, subject, body,
message (file), attachment (file), format (html | text).
Example: "to=john@example.com,subject='Dinner tonight?'"
--jsconsole Open the Browser Console.
--devtools Open DevTools on initial load.
--jsdebugger [<path>] Open the Browser Toolbox. Defaults to the local build
but can be overridden by a firefox path.
--wait-for-jsdebugger Spin event loop until JS debugger connects.
Enables debugging (some) application startup code paths.
Only has an effect when `--jsdebugger` is also supplied.
--start-debugger-server [ws:][ <port> | <path> ] Start the devtools server on
a TCP port or Unix domain socket path. Defaults to TCP port
6000. Use WebSocket protocol if ws: prefix is specified.
--marionette Enable remote control server.
--remote-debugging-port [<port>] Start the Firefox Remote Agent,
which is a low-level remote debugging interface used for WebDriver
BiDi and CDP. Defaults to port 9222.
--remote-allow-hosts <hosts> Values of the Host header to allow for incoming requests.
Please read security guidelines at https:Security.html
--remote-allow-origins <origins> Values of the Origin header to allow for incoming requests.
Please read security guidelines at https:Security.html
-mail Go to the mail tab.
-addressbook Go to the address book tab.
-calendar Go to the calendar tab.
-options Go to the settings tab.
-file Open the specified email file or ICS calendar file.
-setDefaultMail Set this app as the default mail client.
-keymanager Open the OpenPGP Key Manager.

-g or --debug Start within debugger
-d or --debugger Specify debugger to start with (eg, gdb or valgrind)
-a or --debugger-args Specify arguments for debugger

$
Paul

On 2023-10-20 23:10, Paul wrote:
> On 10/20/2023 9:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-10-20 14:59, Newyana2 wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>
>>> | > | BTW, they've now cut off a simple return to earlier versions; by
>>> making
>>> | > | the profiles incompatible.
>>> | > |
>>> | >
>>> | >    That's good to know. So you can import email from Outlook
>>> | > but not from older TBird? Crazy.
>>> |
>>> | That's not what he said.
>>> |
>>>
>>>    Sorry, I worded it wrong. But I understood what he meant.
>>> We're talking about a program that can recognize and import
>>> email from other programs, but can't process its own app data
>>> between some versions without intervention because they broke
>>> backward compatibility in their own software. The whole point
>>> of app data is that it's just the data and remains between
>>> versions.
>>
>> It is quite common that when you update an app, you can not go back because the old version doesn't understand the config of the old one.
>>
>> Although there is a command line option (I don't remember it) that helps in this situation (thunderbird).
>>
>
> Downgrade option, from command line.
>
> And no, this is unlikely to work in any platform :-)
>
> thunderbird --help
>
> because while they accept certain parameters from the
> command line, they're not willing to admit people run
> it from the command line like that.

I have run Thunderbird in Windows with parameters. Just that I had to
use /help, not --help.

....

> #if defined(XP_WIN) || defined(MOZ_WIDGET_GTK) || defined(XP_MACOSX)
> printf(" --headless Run without a GUI.\n");
> #endif
>
> // this works, but only after the components have registered. so if you drop
> // in a new command line handler, --help won't not until the second run. out
> // of the bug, because we ship a component.reg file, it works correctly.
> DumpArbitraryHelp(); <=== Indeed, doesn't that say it all ?
> }
> *******************************************************************************
>
> I will stop there, because now I'm getting angry, as I search the next ply.
>
> "Our code is our documentation", yup, in a tin hat.

:-D

>
> How could you work in a room, with so much snickering going on ?
>
> Paul

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"AllanH" <nospam@unokix.invalid> wrote

| According to the AlternativeTo Web site, the best Windows alternative to
| Thunderbird is Claws Mail.
| https://alternativeto.net/software/claws-mail/about/
| | I thought I would give it a try. Have you tried it?

No. I'm happy enough with TBird. But I don't generally
update. I can't imagine any important new editions they
might make. Maybe a better browser? But I only read/write
plain text anyway.