On 2021-07-05 8:00 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:10:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-04 2:55 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:26:05 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-04 2:04 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 4:54:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 2:52:29 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:55:53 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... Which is also why CoVid rates are increasing in the
>>>>>>>> Midwest now too: a lack of controls to limit R0, along with
>>>>>>>> a population who doesn’t want to take the vaccine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which Midwest states are you talking about? Missouri is the
>>>>>>> only one I can find with any sign of an increase.
>>>>>> At the time, there were IIRC five States with increasing case
>>>>>> countsincreasing. Now there's 24 States who have reported
>>>>>> increases of +10% or more over the past fourteen days:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html>
>>>>>>> Biden could have encourage states to keep restrictions, he
>>>>>>> has done nothing. He could have taken a stronger position on
>>>>>>> vaccination. In fact, some months back, he stated that "There
>>>>>>> is nothing we can do to change the pandemic trajectory...".
>>>>>>> And, that's what his administration has done, nothing.
>>>>>>> Promise fulfilled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> But of course you cherrypick a statement made 48 hours after
>>>>>> inauguration...plus you're forgetting that Trump
>>>>>> absolutely refused to cooperate with the transition, which set
>>>>>> them back ~3 months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not have a NY Times subscription, and that article is behind
>>>>> the paywall. I found this instead.
>>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tracking-coronavirus-case-surges-states-across-country-winter-n1247103
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are states with upticks. Will that turn into a surge? Will it
>>>>> increase immunity? Maybe and yes.
>>>> And you're not bright enough to avoid a paywall to read a single
>>>> article...
>>>>
>>>> ...and the NY Times allows you view any of their pages on COVID-19
>>>> without restriction if you simply sign up for a free account.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like you're looking for excuses.
>>>>
>>>> But to make it clear, the NY Times site shows Indiana's cases are
>>>> rising, just as Johns Hopkins University's site shows. Up 8% over
>>>> the last 14 days.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's even up 8% in your county, Liarboy:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/hamilton-indiana-covid-cases.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And it shows a clear point in early June where a strong downward
>>>> trend basically stopped...
>>>>
>>>> ...just a little more than 30 days after Memorial Day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cherry-picked Biden? Name one thing that the administration has
>>>>> done other than an initial distribution tweak? Strongly
>>>>> encouraged vaccination? No. Requested prolonged mask use and
>>>>> discouraged large gatherings? No.
>>>> Cherry picked an article from 48 hours after the inauguration.
>>>
>>> Alan, just download the raw data from the primary source and stop
>>> quoting others:
>>> https://hub.mph.in.gov/dataset/ab9d97ab-84e3-4c19-97f8-af045ee51882/resource/182b6742-edac-442d-8eeb-62f96b17773e/download/covid_report_date.xlsx
>> And why do you imagine that this data is more accurate than Johns
>> Hopkins's data?
>>
>> What is your source for this faith?
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> CDC is reporting 407 new cases for 2 July, but INDH has not
>>> officially released a number. Just a week ago they stopped updating
>>> on Saturday and Sunday, so 1 July is the latest number on their site.
>>> Let's wait until Tuesday, the next reporting date due to the holiday,
>>> and see if that's an outlier from some previously unreported cases.
>>>
>>> Now, where is the surge in the official data above through 1 July? If
>>> you cherry pick 1 July and 28 June it's a 5.5% increase. Otherwise
>>> 221 for the latest 7 day MA is one of the lowest since Memorial Day.
>>> In fact, it's less than half the week before Memorial Day that ended
>>> 30 May with a 472 average. If anything, maybe the 500 race reduced
>>> new cases. Probably had no effect.
>>>
>>> I remembered recently that lawyers do not call people liars. The
>>> polite adjective in unreliable. So, Unreliableboy, let's wait for
>>> more information instead of jumping to conclusions.
>>>
>> Suddenly, it's "let's wait"...
>
> Quote from the state DOH COVID site: "In observance of the Fourth of July, the dashboard will not update on Monday, 7/5. Normal updates will resume on Tuesday, 7/6."
>
> Because, Unreliableboy, it is INDOH that collects and reports the actual data from testing sites. They report it to CDC. JH has no independent source.
>
> Here is the actual CDC requirement: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/reporting-lab-data.html
>
> <quote>
>
> Submit laboratory testing data directly to state or local public health departments according to state/or local law or policy. Data must be sent using existing reporting channels to ensure rapid initiation of case investigations, and concurrent reporting of results must be shared with the ordering provider or patient, as applicable.
>
> Submit laboratory testing data to state and local public health departments through a centralized platform, where the data will then be routed to the appropriate state and local authorities and routed to CDC after removal of personally identifiable information according to applicable rules and regulations.
>
> Submit laboratory testing data through a state or regional Health Information Exchange (HIE) to the appropriate state or local public health department and then to CDC as directed by the state.
>
> CMS-certified long-term care facilities may submit point-of-care SARS-CoV-2 testing data, including antigen testing data, to CDC’s National Healthcare Safety Network (NHSN). This CDC- and CMS-preferred pathway to submit data to CDC’s NHSN applies only to CMS-certified long-term care facilities. Test data submitted to NHSN will be reported to appropriate state and local health departments using standard electronic laboratory messages. Other types of LTC facilities may also report testing data in NHSN for self-tracking or to fulfill state or local reporting requirements, if any.​
>
> Public health departments will submit de-identified data to CDC on a daily basis, using either Health Level 7 (HL7) messaging or the National ELR Flat File and HL7 Generator tool.
>
> <end quote>
>
> Note that there is no mention of testing site reporting to Johns Hopkins. Even CDC is a secondary source.
>
> The latest data for Hamilton County weekly (updated on Wednesdays) positive rate is 2.03% and declining. See the County Distributions map at: https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm
>
> Are you ever going to do a nanosecond of research before spouting off?

I let Johns Hopkins do the heavy lifting...

....and they've been shown to be correct again.

Hamilton is now 2.6% and climbing.

>
> More tomorrow.

And tomorrow never came.

On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>> More
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which states:
>>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
>>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
>>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
>>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
>>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
>>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
>>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
>>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
>>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
>>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
>>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
>>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
>>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
>>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
>>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
>>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
>>>>
>>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
>>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
>>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
>>>
>>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
>>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
>>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
>>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
>>>
>>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
>>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
>>>
>>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
>>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
>>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
>>
>> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
>
> There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
>
>
>> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe. SS is the
>> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
>
> So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
> is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
> they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
>
>
>> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
>
> Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
>
>> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
>> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
>
> So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
> Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
> than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
>
>> We are far from a fascist system.
>
> Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
>
>
>> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
>
> Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.

I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> More
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Which states:
> >>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
> >>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
> >>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
> >>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
> >>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
> >>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
> >>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
> >>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
> >>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
> >>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
> >>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
> >>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
> >>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
> >>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
> >>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
> >>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
> >>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
> >>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
> >>>
> >>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
> >>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
> >>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
> >>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
> >>>
> >>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
> >>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
> >>>
> >>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
> >>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
> >>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
> >>
> >> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
> >
> > There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
> >
> >
> >> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe. SS is the
> >> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
> >
> > So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
> > is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
> > they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
> >
> >
> >> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
> >
> > Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
> >
> >> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
> >> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
> >
> > So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
> > Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
> > than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
> >
> >> We are far from a fascist system.
> >
> > Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
> >
> >
> >> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
> >
> > Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.
>
> I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
> mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.

He will never be president again.

On 2021-07-08 11:41 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> More
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which states:
>>>>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
>>>>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
>>>>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
>>>>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
>>>>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
>>>>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
>>>>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
>>>>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
>>>>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
>>>>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
>>>>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
>>>>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
>>>>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
>>>>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
>>>>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
>>>>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
>>>>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
>>>>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
>>>>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
>>>>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
>>>>>
>>>>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
>>>>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
>>>>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
>>>>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
>>>>
>>>> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
>>>
>>> There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
>>>
>>>
>>>> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe. SS is the
>>>> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
>>>
>>> So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
>>> is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
>>> they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
>>>
>>> Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
>>>
>>>> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
>>>> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
>>>
>>> So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
>>> Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
>>> than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
>>>
>>>> We are far from a fascist system.
>>>
>>> Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
>>>
>>> Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.
>>
>> I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
>> mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.
>
> He will never be president again.
>

Really? You're sure of that?

Where do you stand on the laws that have been passed recently, Liarboy?

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:09:27 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-06 10:36 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 2:31:54 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> On 2021-07-05 8:33 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:10:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>> On 2021-07-04 2:55 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:26:05 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2021-07-04 2:04 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 4:54:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 2:52:29 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:55:53 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> ... Which is also why CoVid rates are increasing in the
> >>>>>>>>>> Midwest now too: a lack of controls to limit R0, along with
> >>>>>>>>>> a population who doesn’t want to take the vaccine.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Which Midwest states are you talking about? Missouri is the
> >>>>>>>>> only one I can find with any sign of an increase.
> >>>>>>>> At the time, there were IIRC five States with increasing case
> >>>>>>>> countsincreasing. Now there's 24 States who have reported
> >>>>>>>> increases of +10% or more over the past fourteen days:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html>
> >>>>>>>>> Biden could have encourage states to keep restrictions, he
> >>>>>>>>> has done nothing. He could have taken a stronger position on
> >>>>>>>>> vaccination. In fact, some months back, he stated that "There
> >>>>>>>>> is nothing we can do to change the pandemic trajectory...".
> >>>>>>>>> And, that's what his administration has done, nothing.
> >>>>>>>>> Promise fulfilled.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But of course you cherrypick a statement made 48 hours after
> >>>>>>>> inauguration...plus you're forgetting that Trump
> >>>>>>>> absolutely refused to cooperate with the transition, which set
> >>>>>>>> them back ~3 months.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -hh
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I do not have a NY Times subscription, and that article is behind
> >>>>>>> the paywall. I found this instead.
> >>>>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tracking-coronavirus-case-surges-states-across-country-winter-n1247103
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There are states with upticks. Will that turn into a surge? Will it
> >>>>>>> increase immunity? Maybe and yes.
> >>>>>> And you're not bright enough to avoid a paywall to read a single
> >>>>>> article...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ...and the NY Times allows you view any of their pages on COVID-19
> >>>>>> without restriction if you simply sign up for a free account.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Seems like you're looking for excuses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But to make it clear, the NY Times site shows Indiana's cases are
> >>>>>> rising, just as Johns Hopkins University's site shows. Up 8% over
> >>>>>> the last 14 days.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's even up 8% in your county, Liarboy:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/hamilton-indiana-covid-cases.html>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And it shows a clear point in early June where a strong downward
> >>>>>> trend basically stopped...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ...just a little more than 30 days after Memorial Day.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cherry-picked Biden? Name one thing that the administration has
> >>>>>>> done other than an initial distribution tweak? Strongly
> >>>>>>> encouraged vaccination? No. Requested prolonged mask use and
> >>>>>>> discouraged large gatherings? No.
> >>>>>> Cherry picked an article from 48 hours after the inauguration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alan, just download the raw data from the primary source and stop
> >>>>> quoting others:
> >>>>> https://hub.mph.in.gov/dataset/ab9d97ab-84e3-4c19-97f8-af045ee51882/resource/182b6742-edac-442d-8eeb-62f96b17773e/download/covid_report_date.xlsx
> >>>> And why do you imagine that this data is more accurate than Johns
> >>>> Hopkins's data?
> >>>>
> >>>> What is your source for this faith?
> >>>>
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CDC is reporting 407 new cases for 2 July, but INDH has not
> >>>>> officially released a number. Just a week ago they stopped updating
> >>>>> on Saturday and Sunday, so 1 July is the latest number on their site.
> >>>>> Let's wait until Tuesday, the next reporting date due to the holiday,
> >>>>> and see if that's an outlier from some previously unreported cases.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, where is the surge in the official data above through 1 July? If
> >>>>> you cherry pick 1 July and 28 June it's a 5.5% increase. Otherwise
> >>>>> 221 for the latest 7 day MA is one of the lowest since Memorial Day..
> >>>>> In fact, it's less than half the week before Memorial Day that ended
> >>>>> 30 May with a 472 average. If anything, maybe the 500 race reduced
> >>>>> new cases. Probably had no effect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I remembered recently that lawyers do not call people liars. The
> >>>>> polite adjective in unreliable. So, Unreliableboy, let's wait for
> >>>>> more information instead of jumping to conclusions.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Suddenly, it's "let's wait"...
> >>>
> >>> Reply #2
> >>>
> >>> "Suddenly" you seem to have forgotten all about your claim of a post-Indy 500 race case surge. Another of your many unreliable statements. Your credibility is done.
> > Bottom line? COVID is still here, simmering along and infecting the unvaccinated. Is that a bad thing? Not entirely. Deaths remain very low, about 2/day, almost all among the unvaccinated or prior case population. Immunity is increasing from vaccination and COVID cases.
> Bottom line:
>
> Cases are on the rise in Indiana...
>
> <https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm>
>
> Two weeks ago, the 7-day moving average for cases was 239. It was as low
> as 194 cases per day 9 days ago.
>
> Today...
>
> FROM YOUR SOURCE
>
> ...the moving average has risen to 268.

That is correct. Today. It was not correct last week. Scroll down the page to the map. The counties in yellow and orange are largely rural where vaccination rates lag in thinly populated pockets. Given that we have ended almost all mitigation measures the increase should not be surprising. Get vaccinated or get COVID. There is plenty of vaccine to go around. You can walk into about any drug store and get a shot in 10 minutes.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 2:47:56 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-08 11:41 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> More
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Which states:
> >>>>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
> >>>>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
> >>>>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
> >>>>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
> >>>>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
> >>>>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
> >>>>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
> >>>>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
> >>>>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
> >>>>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
> >>>>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
> >>>>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
> >>>>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
> >>>>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
> >>>>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
> >>>>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
> >>>>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
> >>>>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
> >>>>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
> >>>>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
> >>>>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
> >>>>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
> >>>>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
> >>>>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
> >>>>
> >>>> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
> >>>
> >>> There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe. SS is the
> >>>> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
> >>>
> >>> So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
> >>> is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
> >>> they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
> >>>
> >>> Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
> >>>
> >>>> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
> >>>> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
> >>>
> >>> So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
> >>> Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
> >>> than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
> >>>
> >>>> We are far from a fascist system.
> >>>
> >>> Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
> >>>
> >>> Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.
> >>
> >> I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
> >> mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.
> >
> > He will never be president again.
> >
> Really? You're sure of that?
>
> Where do you stand on the laws that have been passed recently, Liarboy?

They won't make any difference. Each side will claim they will.

On 2021-07-08 11:53 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 2:47:56 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-08 11:41 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> More
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which states:
>>>>>>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
>>>>>>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
>>>>>>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
>>>>>>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
>>>>>>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
>>>>>>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
>>>>>>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
>>>>>>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
>>>>>>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
>>>>>>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
>>>>>>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
>>>>>>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
>>>>>>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
>>>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
>>>>>>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
>>>>>>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
>>>>>>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
>>>>>>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
>>>>>>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
>>>>>>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
>>>>>>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
>>>>>>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
>>>>>>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe. SS is the
>>>>>> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
>>>>>
>>>>> So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
>>>>> is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
>>>>> they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
>>>>>> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
>>>>> Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
>>>>> than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
>>>>>
>>>>>> We are far from a fascist system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
>>>>>
>>>>> Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
>>>> mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.
>>>
>>> He will never be president again.
>>>
>> Really? You're sure of that?
>>
>> Where do you stand on the laws that have been passed recently, Liarboy?
>
> They won't make any difference. Each side will claim they will.
>

You're making even less sense that usual, Liarboy.

Try again.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-05 8:00 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:10:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> On 2021-07-04 2:55 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:26:05 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>> On 2021-07-04 2:04 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 4:54:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 2:52:29 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:55:53 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>> ... Which is also why CoVid rates are increasing in the
> >>>>>>>> Midwest now too: a lack of controls to limit R0, along with
> >>>>>>>> a population who doesn’t want to take the vaccine.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Which Midwest states are you talking about? Missouri is the
> >>>>>>> only one I can find with any sign of an increase.
> >>>>>> At the time, there were IIRC five States with increasing case
> >>>>>> countsincreasing. Now there's 24 States who have reported
> >>>>>> increases of +10% or more over the past fourteen days:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html>
> >>>>>>> Biden could have encourage states to keep restrictions, he
> >>>>>>> has done nothing. He could have taken a stronger position on
> >>>>>>> vaccination. In fact, some months back, he stated that "There
> >>>>>>> is nothing we can do to change the pandemic trajectory...".
> >>>>>>> And, that's what his administration has done, nothing.
> >>>>>>> Promise fulfilled.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> But of course you cherrypick a statement made 48 hours after
> >>>>>> inauguration...plus you're forgetting that Trump
> >>>>>> absolutely refused to cooperate with the transition, which set
> >>>>>> them back ~3 months.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -hh
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not have a NY Times subscription, and that article is behind
> >>>>> the paywall. I found this instead.
> >>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tracking-coronavirus-case-surges-states-across-country-winter-n1247103
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are states with upticks. Will that turn into a surge? Will it
> >>>>> increase immunity? Maybe and yes.
> >>>> And you're not bright enough to avoid a paywall to read a single
> >>>> article...
> >>>>
> >>>> ...and the NY Times allows you view any of their pages on COVID-19
> >>>> without restriction if you simply sign up for a free account.
> >>>>
> >>>> Seems like you're looking for excuses.
> >>>>
> >>>> But to make it clear, the NY Times site shows Indiana's cases are
> >>>> rising, just as Johns Hopkins University's site shows. Up 8% over
> >>>> the last 14 days.
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's even up 8% in your county, Liarboy:
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/hamilton-indiana-covid-cases.html>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And it shows a clear point in early June where a strong downward
> >>>> trend basically stopped...
> >>>>
> >>>> ...just a little more than 30 days after Memorial Day.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cherry-picked Biden? Name one thing that the administration has
> >>>>> done other than an initial distribution tweak? Strongly
> >>>>> encouraged vaccination? No. Requested prolonged mask use and
> >>>>> discouraged large gatherings? No.
> >>>> Cherry picked an article from 48 hours after the inauguration.
> >>>
> >>> Alan, just download the raw data from the primary source and stop
> >>> quoting others:
> >>> https://hub.mph.in.gov/dataset/ab9d97ab-84e3-4c19-97f8-af045ee51882/resource/182b6742-edac-442d-8eeb-62f96b17773e/download/covid_report_date.xlsx
> >> And why do you imagine that this data is more accurate than Johns
> >> Hopkins's data?
> >>
> >> What is your source for this faith?
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>>
> >>> CDC is reporting 407 new cases for 2 July, but INDH has not
> >>> officially released a number. Just a week ago they stopped updating
> >>> on Saturday and Sunday, so 1 July is the latest number on their site.
> >>> Let's wait until Tuesday, the next reporting date due to the holiday,
> >>> and see if that's an outlier from some previously unreported cases.
> >>>
> >>> Now, where is the surge in the official data above through 1 July? If
> >>> you cherry pick 1 July and 28 June it's a 5.5% increase. Otherwise
> >>> 221 for the latest 7 day MA is one of the lowest since Memorial Day.
> >>> In fact, it's less than half the week before Memorial Day that ended
> >>> 30 May with a 472 average. If anything, maybe the 500 race reduced
> >>> new cases. Probably had no effect.
> >>>
> >>> I remembered recently that lawyers do not call people liars. The
> >>> polite adjective in unreliable. So, Unreliableboy, let's wait for
> >>> more information instead of jumping to conclusions.
> >>>
> >> Suddenly, it's "let's wait"...
> >
> > Quote from the state DOH COVID site: "In observance of the Fourth of July, the dashboard will not update on Monday, 7/5. Normal updates will resume on Tuesday, 7/6."
> >
> > Because, Unreliableboy, it is INDOH that collects and reports the actual data from testing sites. They report it to CDC. JH has no independent source.
> >
> > Here is the actual CDC requirement: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/reporting-lab-data.html
> >
> > <quote>
> >
> > Submit laboratory testing data directly to state or local public health departments according to state/or local law or policy. Data must be sent using existing reporting channels to ensure rapid initiation of case investigations, and concurrent reporting of results must be shared with the ordering provider or patient, as applicable.
> >
> > Submit laboratory testing data to state and local public health departments through a centralized platform, where the data will then be routed to the appropriate state and local authorities and routed to CDC after removal of personally identifiable information according to applicable rules and regulations.
> >
> > Submit laboratory testing data through a state or regional Health Information Exchange (HIE) to the appropriate state or local public health department and then to CDC as directed by the state.
> >
> > CMS-certified long-term care facilities may submit point-of-care SARS-CoV-2 testing data, including antigen testing data, to CDC’s National Healthcare Safety Network (NHSN). This CDC- and CMS-preferred pathway to submit data to CDC’s NHSN applies only to CMS-certified long-term care facilities. Test data submitted to NHSN will be reported to appropriate state and local health departments using standard electronic laboratory messages. Other types of LTC facilities may also report testing data in NHSN for self-tracking or to fulfill state or local reporting requirements, if any.​
> >
> > Public health departments will submit de-identified data to CDC on a daily basis, using either Health Level 7 (HL7) messaging or the National ELR Flat File and HL7 Generator tool.
> >
> > <end quote>
> >
> > Note that there is no mention of testing site reporting to Johns Hopkins. Even CDC is a secondary source.
> >
> > The latest data for Hamilton County weekly (updated on Wednesdays) positive rate is 2.03% and declining. See the County Distributions map at: https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm
> >
> > Are you ever going to do a nanosecond of research before spouting off?
>
> I let Johns Hopkins do the heavy lifting...
>
> ...and they've been shown to be correct again.
>
> Hamilton is now 2.6% and climbing.
>
> >
> > More tomorrow.
>
> And tomorrow never came.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 3:05:24 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-08 11:53 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 2:47:56 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> On 2021-07-08 11:41 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>> On 2021-07-08 10:05 a.m., -hh wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:07:27 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:57:14 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:30:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:31:21 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> More
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://48hills.org/2021/06/why-has-biden-issued-no-covid-standards-for-workplaces/
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Which states:
> >>>>>>>>>>> “ On January 21, Biden ordered the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
> >>>>>>>>>>> to create emergency COVID safety standards for workplaces by mid-March.”
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So they’re running behind schedule … but they did start, whereas Trump:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> “[I]t has become increasingly clear that the federal pandemic response
> >>>>>>>>>>>> framework developed under the Trump administration – where rules
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and regulations are left up to the states,…”
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Did not even try to lead…yet you give him a buy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump to hell.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 6 months later is "behind schedule"?
> >>>>>>>>> First, the original deadline of 3/31 was probably unrealistic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Second, there’s sure to be heavy behind the scenes lobbying
> >>>>>>>>> by Enterprise that’s obstructing on stuff, such as requiring any
> >>>>>>>>> refitting of HVAC’s, such as with UV sterilization systems.
> >>>>>>>>>> By the time it's done we may be in a different pandemic!
> >>>>>>>>> The basics will still apply for transmission mitigation.
> >>>>>>>>>> Fuck Sleepy Joe! All he is concerned about is his so-called
> >>>>>>>>>> infrastructure plan and his political legacy.
> >>>>>>>>> Political legacies come about as a result of one’s (in)actions.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For example, Trump promised Infrastructure for four years,
> >>>>>>>>> yet never even got as far as Biden’s current attempt.
> >>>>>>>>>> Fuck Trump too. I voted against Biden, not for Trump.
> >>>>>>>>> That’s still a vote for Trump, a fascist. Shame on you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And you voted for a socialist. Shame on you.
> >>>>>>> No, for I just know history: history has repeatedly shown that fascists
> >>>>>>> are the worst possible form of good governance.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Likewise, I'm also familiar with how the Republican party's propaganda
> >>>>>>> arm, which namely is to try to duplicitously conflate and label all forms
> >>>>>>> of socialism into only possibly being the authoritative form, to bury the
> >>>>>>> democratic socialist form found in the EU.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So even if the "Socialist" label is true (can you do that? cite please), its
> >>>>>>> just not a 'bad' of a form of government, especially compared to fascism.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Plus the reality is that the US has many aspects of being a democratic socialist
> >>>>>>> state too: anyone who wants to argue otherwise has to first stop being a lame
> >>>>>>> hypocrite who's collecting their Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid benefits(!).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The issue is that there is no national consensus to move further in the EU direction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's also no national consensus to retreat away from it either.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> As for SS and Medicare, they are both VASTLY different from Europe.. SS is the
> >>>>>> most similar, but funded in a different manner with less generous benefits.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So even though they're philosophically serving the same purpose and the one
> >>>>> is more generous than the other, just because the in-the-weeds pedantics
> >>>>> they're funded differently, they're supposedly "VASTLY" different? Not buying it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It's also only a supplement to private retirement programs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most of which no longer exist to be thusly supplemented.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Medicare is totally different. To start with it kicks in at 65. Then to socialist
> >>>>>> healthcare systems are cradle to grave.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So the eligibility ages are different ... that's not really that huge of a change.
> >>>>> Plus there's been national discussions to expand Medicare (much more so
> >>>>> than to eliminate it) as well as "single payer".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> We are far from a fascist system.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only because January 6th insurrection failed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Look up the definition and you see pictures of Hitler, Mussolini and Chairman Mao.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Within a ~decade, I expect Trump to be pictured there too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm starting to think you'll be lucky if it doesn't end up being
> >>>> mandatory in every school to have a picture of president-for-life Trump.
> >>>
> >>> He will never be president again.
> >>>
> >> Really? You're sure of that?
> >>
> >> Where do you stand on the laws that have been passed recently, Liarboy?
> >
> > They won't make any difference. Each side will claim they will.
> >
> You're making even less sense that usual, Liarboy.
>
> Try again.

You figure it out, it's plain as can be.

On 2021-07-08 12:10 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-05 8:00 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:10:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-04 2:55 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:26:05 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-07-04 2:04 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 4:54:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 2:52:29 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:55:53 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ... Which is also why CoVid rates are increasing in the
>>>>>>>>>> Midwest now too: a lack of controls to limit R0, along with
>>>>>>>>>> a population who doesn’t want to take the vaccine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which Midwest states are you talking about? Missouri is the
>>>>>>>>> only one I can find with any sign of an increase.
>>>>>>>> At the time, there were IIRC five States with increasing case
>>>>>>>> countsincreasing. Now there's 24 States who have reported
>>>>>>>> increases of +10% or more over the past fourteen days:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html>
>>>>>>>>> Biden could have encourage states to keep restrictions, he
>>>>>>>>> has done nothing. He could have taken a stronger position on
>>>>>>>>> vaccination. In fact, some months back, he stated that "There
>>>>>>>>> is nothing we can do to change the pandemic trajectory...".
>>>>>>>>> And, that's what his administration has done, nothing.
>>>>>>>>> Promise fulfilled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But of course you cherrypick a statement made 48 hours after
>>>>>>>> inauguration...plus you're forgetting that Trump
>>>>>>>> absolutely refused to cooperate with the transition, which set
>>>>>>>> them back ~3 months.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not have a NY Times subscription, and that article is behind
>>>>>>> the paywall. I found this instead.
>>>>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tracking-coronavirus-case-surges-states-across-country-winter-n1247103
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are states with upticks. Will that turn into a surge? Will it
>>>>>>> increase immunity? Maybe and yes.
>>>>>> And you're not bright enough to avoid a paywall to read a single
>>>>>> article...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...and the NY Times allows you view any of their pages on COVID-19
>>>>>> without restriction if you simply sign up for a free account.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like you're looking for excuses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But to make it clear, the NY Times site shows Indiana's cases are
>>>>>> rising, just as Johns Hopkins University's site shows. Up 8% over
>>>>>> the last 14 days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/indiana-covid-cases.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's even up 8% in your county, Liarboy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/hamilton-indiana-covid-cases.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it shows a clear point in early June where a strong downward
>>>>>> trend basically stopped...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...just a little more than 30 days after Memorial Day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cherry-picked Biden? Name one thing that the administration has
>>>>>>> done other than an initial distribution tweak? Strongly
>>>>>>> encouraged vaccination? No. Requested prolonged mask use and
>>>>>>> discouraged large gatherings? No.
>>>>>> Cherry picked an article from 48 hours after the inauguration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan, just download the raw data from the primary source and stop
>>>>> quoting others:
>>>>> https://hub.mph.in.gov/dataset/ab9d97ab-84e3-4c19-97f8-af045ee51882/resource/182b6742-edac-442d-8eeb-62f96b17773e/download/covid_report_date.xlsx
>>>> And why do you imagine that this data is more accurate than Johns
>>>> Hopkins's data?
>>>>
>>>> What is your source for this faith?
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> CDC is reporting 407 new cases for 2 July, but INDH has not
>>>>> officially released a number. Just a week ago they stopped updating
>>>>> on Saturday and Sunday, so 1 July is the latest number on their site.
>>>>> Let's wait until Tuesday, the next reporting date due to the holiday,
>>>>> and see if that's an outlier from some previously unreported cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, where is the surge in the official data above through 1 July? If
>>>>> you cherry pick 1 July and 28 June it's a 5.5% increase. Otherwise
>>>>> 221 for the latest 7 day MA is one of the lowest since Memorial Day.
>>>>> In fact, it's less than half the week before Memorial Day that ended
>>>>> 30 May with a 472 average. If anything, maybe the 500 race reduced
>>>>> new cases. Probably had no effect.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remembered recently that lawyers do not call people liars. The
>>>>> polite adjective in unreliable. So, Unreliableboy, let's wait for
>>>>> more information instead of jumping to conclusions.
>>>>>
>>>> Suddenly, it's "let's wait"...
>>>
>>> Quote from the state DOH COVID site: "In observance of the Fourth of July, the dashboard will not update on Monday, 7/5. Normal updates will resume on Tuesday, 7/6."
>>>
>>> Because, Unreliableboy, it is INDOH that collects and reports the actual data from testing sites. They report it to CDC. JH has no independent source.
>>>
>>> Here is the actual CDC requirement: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/reporting-lab-data.html
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>>
>>> Submit laboratory testing data directly to state or local public health departments according to state/or local law or policy. Data must be sent using existing reporting channels to ensure rapid initiation of case investigations, and concurrent reporting of results must be shared with the ordering provider or patient, as applicable.
>>>
>>> Submit laboratory testing data to state and local public health departments through a centralized platform, where the data will then be routed to the appropriate state and local authorities and routed to CDC after removal of personally identifiable information according to applicable rules and regulations.
>>>
>>> Submit laboratory testing data through a state or regional Health Information Exchange (HIE) to the appropriate state or local public health department and then to CDC as directed by the state.
>>>
>>> CMS-certified long-term care facilities may submit point-of-care SARS-CoV-2 testing data, including antigen testing data, to CDC’s National Healthcare Safety Network (NHSN). This CDC- and CMS-preferred pathway to submit data to CDC’s NHSN applies only to CMS-certified long-term care facilities. Test data submitted to NHSN will be reported to appropriate state and local health departments using standard electronic laboratory messages. Other types of LTC facilities may also report testing data in NHSN for self-tracking or to fulfill state or local reporting requirements, if any.​
>>>
>>> Public health departments will submit de-identified data to CDC on a daily basis, using either Health Level 7 (HL7) messaging or the National ELR Flat File and HL7 Generator tool.
>>>
>>> <end quote>
>>>
>>> Note that there is no mention of testing site reporting to Johns Hopkins. Even CDC is a secondary source.
>>>
>>> The latest data for Hamilton County weekly (updated on Wednesdays) positive rate is 2.03% and declining. See the County Distributions map at: https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm
>>>
>>> Are you ever going to do a nanosecond of research before spouting off?
>>
>> I let Johns Hopkins do the heavy lifting...
>>
>> ...and they've been shown to be correct again.
>>
>> Hamilton is now 2.6% and climbing.
>>
>>>
>>> More tomorrow.
>>
>> And tomorrow never came.
>
> Yes it did, tomorrow is here today, with more and valid INDOH numbers now in state-wide cases are ticking up. Mostly in rural areas.
>
> Testing is declining. A higher positive rate/test does not necessarily indicate more positive cases. In fact, it does not for this county. The 7 day MA number of positive tests in my home county declined to 1-3 a day in June and is holding steady. https://hub.mph.in.gov/dataset/covid-19-county-wide-test-case-and-death-trends/resource/afaa225d-ac4e-4e80-9190-f6800c366b58

On 2021-07-08 11:52 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>> I remembered recently that lawyers do not call people liars. The
>>>>>>> polite adjective in unreliable. So, Unreliableboy, let's wait for
>>>>>>> more information instead of jumping to conclusions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suddenly, it's "let's wait"...
>>>>> Reply #2
>>>>>
>>>>> "Suddenly" you seem to have forgotten all about your claim of a post-Indy 500 race case surge. Another of your many unreliable statements. Your credibility is done.
>>> Bottom line? COVID is still here, simmering along and infecting the unvaccinated. Is that a bad thing? Not entirely. Deaths remain very low, about 2/day, almost all among the unvaccinated or prior case population. Immunity is increasing from vaccination and COVID cases.
>> Bottom line:
>>
>> Cases are on the rise in Indiana...
>>
>> <https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm>
>>
>> Two weeks ago, the 7-day moving average for cases was 239. It was as low
>> as 194 cases per day 9 days ago.
>>
>> Today...
>>
>> FROM YOUR SOURCE
>>
>> ...the moving average has risen to 268.
> That is correct. Today. It was not correct last week. Scroll down the page to the map. The counties in yellow and orange are largely rural where vaccination rates lag in thinly populated pockets. Given that we have ended almost all mitigation measures the increase should not be surprising. Get vaccinated or get COVID. There is plenty of vaccine to go around. You can walk into about any drug store and get a shot in 10 minutes.

Funny how you went from:

"It's alright that we're ending restrictions, because our case rate is
going down", straight to:

"Hey! We ended restrictions! Of course our case rate is going up!"

JHU had it right before your government website got around to telling you...

....and it's only getting worse:

<https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states/indiana>

Cases aren't just rising a just little anymore.