This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.

Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
which is what brought him to NYC).

Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
quoted extensively from it.)

Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:04:23 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
> Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>
> Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
> teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
> called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
> Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
> which is what brought him to NYC).
>
> Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
> feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
> are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
> grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
> interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
> tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
> quoted extensively from it.)
>
> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

I think Family Guy can clear up this puzzle:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkDAb4hlof0>

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:04:23 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
> Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>
> Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
> teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
> called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
> Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
> which is what brought him to NYC).
>
> Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
> feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
> are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
> grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
> interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
> tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
> quoted extensively from it.)
>
> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

This Rufo is quite a piece of work. His WP article (which "may not
be unbiased") says he deliberately lies about everything so as to
foment hatred of pubic education.

And appears regularly with Tucker Carlson.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
>Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>
>Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
>teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
>called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
>Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
>which is what brought him to NYC).
>
>Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
>feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
>are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
>grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
>interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
>tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
>quoted extensively from it.)
>
>Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

"Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html

"It turns out..." is not a correct assessment. All of the news
articles I've read on the math books issue have covered that the
excluded books included references to "Critical Race Theory" and
"Social & Emotional Learning". Or, as the Florida Department of
Education officials put it, "prohibited topics".

CRT, though, is the red-meat term and most people read the articles,
glommed on to CRT, and glossed over the SEL term.

The real problem has been that the Florida Department of Education
spokespeople didn't identify what was in any of the textbooks that was
a "prohibited topic", refused to provide any examples, and refused to
even name the textbooks.

The New York Times did some extensive research and reviewed 21 books
they felt were on the list, but were unable to determine what in those
books would have been considered to be examples CRT or SEL aspects
because the FDoE won't reveal what they were looking for.

Florida has now re-evaluated some of the textbooks and removed them
from the list of rejections. But, without explanation of why the book
was rejected in the first place.

Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
math textbooks in time for the next school year.

Rufo, by the way, did not "invent" SEL. It's been around since 1994
and was advanced by Daniel Goleman and his associates at Yale's
"Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning" child
studies center. Goleman is now at Rutgers.

Rufo's position is that it is the invention of the devil and he's here
to expose it as such...and to get some media exposure.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
> that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
> and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
> math textbooks in time for the next school year.

Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
mathematics without political interference?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

In message <k46m6hdgnrdmme6s0oebuvoag523751tdd@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> CRT, though, is the red-meat term and most people read the articles,
> glommed on to CRT, and glossed over the SEL term.

And I would be shocked if even 1 in 1000 people had the slightest idea
what CRT or SEL actually are.

> The New York Times did some extensive research and reviewed 21 books
> they felt were on the list, but were unable to determine what in those
> books would have been considered to be examples CRT or SEL aspects
> because the FDoE won't reveal what they were looking for.

I saw a cartoon that summed up Florida's Education stance quite clearly,
it shows a line of three white-faced children a space, and then six
dark-faced children. In between was a '>'.

> Rufo, by the way, did not "invent" SEL. It's been around since 1994
> and was advanced by Daniel Goleman and his associates at Yale's
> "Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning" child
> studies center. Goleman is now at Rutgers.

> Rufo's position is that it is the invention of the devil and he's here
> to expose it as such...and to get some media exposure.

Angry dudebros really hate the idea of children being raised to not be
angry dudebros.

(I am well familiar with SEL since it was a large part of my wife's
coursework for her master's degree).

--
Don't be afraid to be weak, Don't be too proud to be strong.

In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
>> that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
>> and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
>> math textbooks in time for the next school year.

> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
> mathematics without political interference?

Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone is
allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot brown
people.

--
I would rather be a mute poet, a blind artist or a deaf musician than
a heartless man. -Graffiti, bathroom wall @ The Napoleon House
New Orleans 1967 (via @johnlarroquette)

* Peter T. Daniels:

> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that ancient
Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical Hollywood white
Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather than Mediterranean
types.

Anthony Quinn wasn't Greek, but he was probably a somewhat more
convincing choice for Zorba the Greek than Brad Pitt would be.

--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106

On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>
>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>> mathematics without political interference?
>
> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
> brown people.

Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.

Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 29/04/2022 4:36 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:

<snip>

>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>> brown people.
>
> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
> are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.

What about infantility? For example, the infantility that leads one to
demonise one's political opponents (as quoted above), making much more
difficult any kind of meaningful political discourse.

> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.

I think you're better than that.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 2022-04-28 21:36, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>
>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>
>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>> brown people.
>
> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
> are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.

I did not know that, but it makes me wonder about a few things.

How is that enforced?

What percentage of ballots are deliberately spoiled?

> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.

On 29/04/22 14:40, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-04-28 21:36, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but
>> exemptions are made for people with senile dementia or other forms
>> of insanity.
>
> I did not know that, but it makes me wonder about a few things.
>
> How is that enforced?

The compulsory voting, you mean? Your name is checked off a list as the
polling booth officers hand you the blank ballot papers. After the
election, the Electoral Commission checks those lists, and issues fines
to those who didn't vote. The fine can be waived if you have a good excuse.

> What percentage of ballots are deliberately spoiled?

The total of invalid votes seems to hover at about 5%, but I don't know
of a breakdown between deliberately spoiled and accidentally
invalidated. It is known that the rate is higher in places with a large
immigrant population, and for example one way of voting incorrectly is
to use ticks and crosses instead of numbers, which suggests that some
people are trying to carry over rules from other countries.

Pre-poll and postal votes show an invalidity rate of 2%-3%. These are
cases where the voter has made an extra effort to vote, so the
"deliberately spoiled" rate should be close to zero. That suggests to me
that the above 5% can be split about half-and-half between deliberately
and accidentally spoiled.

Deliberately spoiled ballots tend to show up as cases where someone
writes "I don't trust any of the bastards" on the voting paper, or some
similar clue. The above figures suggest that this is uncommon.

A document with more detailed analysis can be found at

<https://www.aec.gov.au/about_aec/research/files/informal-voting-2016.pdf>

A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where someone
numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many candidates there
are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in the order the
candidates are listed. This is a valid vote, and is indistinguishable
from the case where someone really wanted to vote that way. (Most
voters, I suspect, fill in their first two or three preferences with
care, and then number randomly after that.) The only guard we have
against donkey voting is random allocation of the candidates on the paper.

My overall impression is that, although protest votes exist, they seem
to be at a fairly low level. Accidentally producing an invalid vote
seems to be more common.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Peter Moylan hat am 29.04.2022 um 09:39 geschrieben:

> A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where someone
> numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many candidates there
> are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in the order the
> candidates are listed.

A problem with your otherwise excellent voting system is the obligation
to number all candidates. I can see the advantage of making absolutely
sure that all votes count, even if it's the choice between number 7 and
8 on that ballot - i. e. two candidates that voter does not like at all
- but I remember a ballot with 46 parties, when I had never heard
anything about a dozen of them and had no idea what they stood for, if
their name did not make it obvious.

On 2022-04-29 07:39:36 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 29/04/22 14:40, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-04-28 21:36, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but
>>> exemptions are made for people with senile dementia or other forms
>>> of insanity.
>>
>> I did not know that, but it makes me wonder about a few things.
>>
>> How is that enforced?
>
> The compulsory voting, you mean? Your name is checked off a list as the
> polling booth officers hand you the blank ballot papers. After the
> election, the Electoral Commission checks those lists, and issues fines
> to those who didn't vote. The fine can be waived if you have a good excuse.

In the past (no longer) voting was compulsory in Chile. When my
mother-in-law she was well into her 90s and unable to get to the
polling station. They sent someone round to ask her why she hadn't
voted. They were eventually convinced that her excuse was good enough.
>
>> What percentage of ballots are deliberately spoiled?
>
> The total of invalid votes seems to hover at about 5%, but I don't know
> of a breakdown between deliberately spoiled and accidentally
> invalidated. It is known that the rate is higher in places with a large
> immigrant population, and for example one way of voting incorrectly is
> to use ticks and crosses instead of numbers, which suggests that some
> people are trying to carry over rules from other countries.

It probably depends on where you live. In Liverpool, with a large Irish
population, it is common for people to number their preferences. That
is normal in the Republic of Ireland, which has the single transferable
vote. I understand that in Liverpool they treat 1 as an X and ignore
the other other numbers. In other places they may treat it as a spoiled
ballot.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On 2022-04-29 08:08:55 +0000, Silvano said:

> Peter Moylan hat am 29.04.2022 um 09:39 geschrieben:
>
>> A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where someone
>> numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many candidates there
>> are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in the order the
>> candidates are listed.
>
> A problem with your otherwise excellent voting system is the obligation
> to number all candidates. I can see the advantage of making absolutely
> sure that all votes count, even if it's the choice between number 7 and
> 8 on that ballot - i. e. two candidates that voter does not like at all
> - but I remember a ballot with 46 parties, when I had never heard
> anything about a dozen of them and had no idea what they stood for, if
> their name did not make it obvious.

My brother-in-law's sister (in Australia) complained about exactly that.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On 4/28/2022 11:09 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:

>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both male and
>> white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted as non-white, but
>> Euclid or Archimedes?)

> I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
> mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that
> ancient Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical
> Hollywood white Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather than
> Mediterranean types.

Their sculpted images look pretty Northern European. I suppose there
has been a lot of genetic mixing since the Golden Age.

> Anthony Quinn wasn't Greek, but he was probably a somewhat more
> convincing choice for Zorba the Greek than Brad Pitt would be.

In message <t4fmfe$ote$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>
>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>
>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>> brown people.

> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
> are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.

> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.

Oh no, if that were true the results would be randomized and much
better.

The problem in Florida, and in most states, is that the are a wide
variety of mechanisms in place to discourage poor people and minorities
from voting while making it as easy as possible for rich and middle
class people to vote.

In 2016, Trump Lost Colorado, but even so at our polling place there
were 6 machines and no lines all day (I voted early, but I helped get
people to the polling place). When one of my wife's schools is is a
poor neighborhood, Title 1¹ school, and majority Hispanic and black (and
quite a lot of "Blaxicans").

That school was a polling location for three precincts (ours is one).
There were three machines, total. The lines were 2-4 hours long.

In addition, election day is a weekday, and while employers are required
by law to allow employees time to vote, many do not.

Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of thousands of
voters from the roles based on their last names, trying to purge black
and Hispanic voters.

¹ Title 1 is a classification for schools in which 90% of the students
qualify for free or reduced lunch. (Or around 90%?)

--
Hi, I'm Gary Cooper, but not the Gary Cooper that's dead.

On 29/04/22 18:08, Silvano wrote:
> Peter Moylan hat am 29.04.2022 um 09:39 geschrieben:
>
>> A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where
>> someone numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many
>> candidates there are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in
>> the order the candidates are listed.
>
> A problem with your otherwise excellent voting system is the
> obligation to number all candidates. I can see the advantage of
> making absolutely sure that all votes count, even if it's the choice
> between number 7 and 8 on that ballot - i. e. two candidates that
> voter does not like at all - but I remember a ballot with 46 parties,
> when I had never heard anything about a dozen of them and had no idea
> what they stood for, if their name did not make it obvious.

We vote for two houses of parliament. In the House of Representatives
vote there are almost never more than ten candidates per electorate, and
typically you get only four or five. Under those conditions, having to
number every square is not a problem.

The Senate is another matter. In that case the entire state is one
electorate, and we are voting to elect six candidates in our state.
Multiple parties compete, each putting up multiple candidates, and some
have misleading names. (Misleading party names are a long-term gripe of
mine. For example, the "Informed Medical Opinions Party" exists solely
to oppose covid-19 vaccination.) That means that there can be 100 names
on the ballot paper. Some elections ago it was worse, giving us the
infamous "tablecloth ballot paper".

That problem has now been recognised, and the rules changed so that we
don't have to number all the squares. In fact, we even have the option
of voting for just one party, after which our preferences are allocated
according to a list prepared by that party.

All of the above is for federal elections. In state elections each state
can have different rules, and some states have optional preferential voting.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

In message <1x57lo93j27de$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:

>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)

> I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
> mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that ancient
> Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical Hollywood white
> Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather than Mediterranean
> types.

It is also very easy to assume that what people in Greece look like now
is what they always looked like. We know, quite well, what Alexander the
Great looked like, and there's even a note in something or other that a
particular painting made him "too dark and swarthy" when he was know to
be "fair and ruddy". He also had a blue eye and a blown eye, though i
can't find that reference right now. It's possible I no longer have that
book.

A lot has happened in 2400 years.

--
If Daniel Dennett is right that there’s a human genetic need for
religion— then I’d like to imagine that my atheism is proof of
evolutionary biology in action. -- Adam Savage

On 29/04/22 21:30, Lewis wrote:
> In message <t4fmfe$ote$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>
> Oh no, if that were true the results would be randomized and much
> better.
>
> The problem in Florida, and in most states, is that the are a wide
> variety of mechanisms in place to discourage poor people and
> minorities from voting while making it as easy as possible for rich
> and middle class people to vote.
>
> In 2016, Trump Lost Colorado, but even so at our polling place there
> were 6 machines and no lines all day (I voted early, but I helped
> get people to the polling place). When one of my wife's schools is
> is a poor neighborhood, Title 1¹ school, and majority Hispanic and
> black (and quite a lot of "Blaxicans").
>
> That school was a polling location for three precincts (ours is one).
> There were three machines, total. The lines were 2-4 hours long.
>
> In addition, election day is a weekday, and while employers are
> required by law to allow employees time to vote, many do not.

That's one non-obvious advantage of compulsory voting. It effectively
forces the state to make voting easier. All of our elections are on
Saturdays, and in the worst voting queue I remember the delay was under
ten minutes. That was in a voting place that was right on the border
between two electorates, making its procedures more complicated than usual.

Admittedly there are still some people for whom Saturday is not a
suitable day, but they can be handled by pre-poll voting and postal voting.

> Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of
> thousands of voters from the roles based on their last names, trying
> to purge black and Hispanic voters.

Removing voters from the roll, whether it be because of racial
discrimination or any other reason, would be a serious crime in this
country. I haven't checked the penalties, but I wouldn't be surprised by
a 20-year prison sentence for someone who did that. How can Florida
officials get away with that? I would have thought that they would be in
violation of federal law, even if state law allowed it.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 29/04/22 21:41, Lewis wrote:
> In message <1x57lo93j27de$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info> Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both male
>>> and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted as
>>> non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>
>> I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
>> mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that
>> ancient Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical
>> Hollywood white Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather
>> than Mediterranean types.
>
> It is also very easy to assume that what people in Greece look like
> now is what they always looked like. We know, quite well, what
> Alexander the Great looked like, and there's even a note in something
> or other that a particular painting made him "too dark and swarthy"
> when he was know to be "fair and ruddy". He also had a blue eye and a
> blown eye, though i can't find that reference right now. It's
> possible I no longer have that book.
>
> A lot has happened in 2400 years.

As I understand it, the Greek peninsula has been invaded numerous times
over the centuries. That would give Greece more than its fair share of
genetic mixing.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 2022-04-28, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:04:23 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
>> Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>>
>> Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
>> teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
>> called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
>> Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
>> which is what brought him to NYC).
>>
>> Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
>> feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
>> are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
>> grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
>> interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
>> tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
>> quoted extensively from it.)
>>
>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>
> This Rufo is quite a piece of work. His WP article (which "may not
> be unbiased") says he deliberately lies about everything so as to
> foment hatred of pubic education.

Interesting typo and/or satire.

> And appears regularly with Tucker Carlson.

--
Random numbers should not be generated with a method chosen at random.
---Donald Knuth

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:30:19 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of thousands of
>voters from the roles based on their last names, trying to purge black
>and Hispanic voters.

What's this? I have no idea what you might be thinking of, and I
follow Florida news very closely.

In 2020 the Division of Elections for the state announced that there
were an estimated 85,000 registered voters that have been convicted of
a felony and are ineligible to vote. Some have been removed, but it's
a difficult process because someone who has never been convicted of a
felony could have the same name as someone who does.

Several years ago there was a huge flap because a number of "convicted
felons" were removed from the rolls, but it turned out that the state
was using a list of convicted felons that included people who had been
convicted of a felony in some other state. That does not make them
ineligible to vote in Florida.

The individual election offices in each county attempt to purge their
lists of names of people who are no longer in the county and are
registered somewhere else. That's a valid reason to purge the list.

We are not required to notify the election office when we move to a
different county, and can register at the county where we move to, so
some names are on multiple county's polls.

The requirement to show identification at the time we vote prevents
someone voting in two places, though. The identification must show
the current address.

I think your statement above is a total fabrication, but I do
understand how you could bite on even the wildest false claim about
Florida. Who wouldn't believe anything said about a state that won't
allow a school to use a math textbook that encourages childrens to get
along with each other.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 29/04/2022 1:52 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Who wouldn't believe anything said about a state that won't
> allow a school to use a math textbook that encourages childrens to get
> along with each other.

Shouldn't that stuff be in the Getting Along With Each Other textbook?
Putting it in the Mathematics textbook means either less room for
teaching mathematical skills (so less fit for purpose) or a bigger book
(so more expensive). I suppose these getting along with each other
skills are being shoehorned into Physics books and Chemistry books and
French books and Economics books, making them all either less fit for
purpose or more expensive? What a bloody stupid idea!

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:54:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
> >Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
> >
> >Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
> >teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
> >called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
> >Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
> >which is what brought him to NYC).
> >
> >Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
> >feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
> >are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
> >grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
> >interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
> >tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
> >quoted extensively from it.)
> >
> >Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> >Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> >male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> >as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html

You really don't read what you respond to. You managed to find
the very article that was being discussed, by its author, on that
radio program (which for some reason I cannot view because
I have "reached my limit" of free articles -- going back how many
years, I wonder, since I only go there when someone provides
an intriguing link, which is quite rare).

> "It turns out..." is not a correct assessment. All of the news
> articles I've read on the math books issue have covered that the
> excluded books included references to "Critical Race Theory" and
> "Social & Emotional Learning". Or, as the Florida Department of
> Education officials put it, "prohibited topics".
>
> CRT, though, is the red-meat term and most people read the articles,
> glommed on to CRT, and glossed over the SEL term.
>
> The real problem has been that the Florida Department of Education
> spokespeople didn't identify what was in any of the textbooks that was
> a "prohibited topic", refused to provide any examples, and refused to
> even name the textbooks.
>
> The New York Times

Metonymy for the author's actual name?

> did some extensive research and reviewed 21 books
> they felt were on the list, but were unable to determine what in those
> books would have been considered to be examples CRT or SEL aspects
> because the FDoE won't reveal what they were looking for.
>
> Florida has now re-evaluated some of the textbooks and removed them
> from the list of rejections. But, without explanation of why the book
> was rejected in the first place.
>
> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
> that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
> and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
> math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>
> Rufo, by the way, did not "invent" SEL. It's been around since 1994
> and was advanced by Daniel Goleman and his associates at Yale's
> "Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning" child
> studies center. Goleman is now at Rutgers.
>
> Rufo's position is that it is the invention of the devil and he's here
> to expose it as such...and to get some media exposure.