On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:17:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
> > that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
> > and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
> > math textbooks in time for the next school year.

(If he knew all that, why didn't he provide clarifications when the
question came up a week or two ago?)

> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
> mathematics without political interference?

No, see Rufo's ultimate goal -- the elimination of public schools.

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 11:10:04 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:

> > Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> > Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> > male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> > as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>
> I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
> mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that ancient
> Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical Hollywood white
> Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather than Mediterranean
> types.
>
> Anthony Quinn wasn't Greek, but he was probably a somewhat more
> convincing choice for Zorba the Greek than Brad Pitt would be.

I did once see far too much of *Troy* ...

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 12:18:53 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 4:36 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:

> >> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
> >> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
> >> brown people.
> > Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
> > are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.
>
> What about infantility? For example, the infantility that leads one to
> demonise one's political opponents (as quoted above), making much more
> difficult any kind of meaningful political discourse.
> > Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
> I think you're better than that.

Not only was he too lazy to find out anything about Tucker Carlson,
now he can't be arsed to find out anything about Christopher Rufo.

What's his attitude toward home-grown media-star nutcases?

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 11:10:04 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>>> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>>> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>>
>> I guess that depends on how white exactly. The host of the Greek
>> mythology podcast I've mentioned here before does criticize that ancient
>> Greeks in Hollywood movies are usually played by typical Hollywood white
>> Americans, i.e. Northern European types, rather than Mediterranean
>> types.
>>
>> Anthony Quinn wasn't Greek, but he was probably a somewhat more
>> convincing choice for Zorba the Greek than Brad Pitt would be.
>
> I did once see far too much of *Troy* ...

Yes, that's where Brad Pitt comes in. I too didn't make it through the
whole movie.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:54:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
>> >Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>> >
>> >Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
>> >teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
>> >called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
>> >Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
>> >which is what brought him to NYC).
>> >
>> >Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
>> >feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
>> >are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
>> >grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
>> >interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
>> >tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
>> >quoted extensively from it.)
>> >
>> >Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>> >Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>> >male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>> >as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
>> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html
>
>You really don't read what you respond to.

Of course I did. Your post starts out saying "It turns out.." as if
something new was revealed in the "Fresh Air" program, but nothing new
was revealed. There's nothing wrong with "Fresh Air" devoting a
segment to something that is already known, but your phrasing
suggested that it was somehow revealing that SEL was part of the
"prohibited topics" angle.

I waded through your comments about a Eucld, Archimedes, and John
McWhorter although I have no idea why you brought those names up, and
went to gist of the issue: SEL has always been acknowledged as one of
the "prohibited topics" although no examples of inclusions of SEL were
provided.

I also noticed that you gave Rufo credit for "inventing" SEL. What
you probably had in mind was tha Rufo invented the concept of SEL
being a threat, but when I read what I respond to I read what is
written, not what the inarticulate writer had in mind.

> You managed to find
>the very article that was being discussed, by its author, on that
>radio program (which for some reason I cannot view because
>I have "reached my limit" of free articles -- going back how many
>years, I wonder, since I only go there when someone provides
>an intriguing link, which is quite rare).
>
>> "It turns out..." is not a correct assessment. All of the news
>> articles I've read on the math books issue have covered that the
>> excluded books included references to "Critical Race Theory" and
>> "Social & Emotional Learning". Or, as the Florida Department of
>> Education officials put it, "prohibited topics".
>>
>> CRT, though, is the red-meat term and most people read the articles,
>> glommed on to CRT, and glossed over the SEL term.
>>
>> The real problem has been that the Florida Department of Education
>> spokespeople didn't identify what was in any of the textbooks that was
>> a "prohibited topic", refused to provide any examples, and refused to
>> even name the textbooks.
>>
>> The New York Times
>
>Metonymy for the author's actual name?

I have no idea what your point is there. The article linked to was
authored by Dana Goldstein and Stephanie Saul, but there's no
indication that the research and review of the textbooks was done by
them. In fact, I would not expect it to be. The actual searching
through the 21 textbooks would be done by unnamed staff and the
results provided to Goldstein and Saul.

>
>> did some extensive research and reviewed 21 books
>> they felt were on the list, but were unable to determine what in those
>> books would have been considered to be examples CRT or SEL aspects
>> because the FDoE won't reveal what they were looking for.
>>
>> Florida has now re-evaluated some of the textbooks and removed them
>> from the list of rejections. But, without explanation of why the book
>> was rejected in the first place.
>>
>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
>> that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
>> and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
>> math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>
>> Rufo, by the way, did not "invent" SEL. It's been around since 1994
>> and was advanced by Daniel Goleman and his associates at Yale's
>> "Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning" child
>> studies center. Goleman is now at Rutgers.
>>
>> Rufo's position is that it is the invention of the devil and he's here
>> to expose it as such...and to get some media exposure.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:53:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:17:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> > Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
>> > that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
>> > and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
>> > math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>
>(If he knew all that, why didn't he provide clarifications when the
>question came up a week or two ago?)

DeSantis isn't concerned with the fall-out of his actions. His only
concern is how his actions will be perceived by the electorate. He
has total control of the legislature, and has coerced them into
passing numerous bills that everyone knew would be overuled and
reversed in court.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:36:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>
>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>
>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>> brown people.
>
>Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
>are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.
>
>Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.

Some people would claim that only the senile live in Florida.

On 2022-04-29 11:55:38 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 29/04/22 21:30, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t4fmfe$ote$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>>
>> Oh no, if that were true the results would be randomized and much
>> better.
>>
>> The problem in Florida, and in most states, is that the are a wide
>> variety of mechanisms in place to discourage poor people and
>> minorities from voting while making it as easy as possible for rich
>> and middle class people to vote.
>>
>> In 2016, Trump Lost Colorado,

I expect in Colorado you're very proud of Lauren Boebert.

>> but even so at our polling place there
>> were 6 machines and no lines all day (I voted early, but I helped
>> get people to the polling place). When one of my wife's schools is
>> is a poor neighborhood, Title 1¹ school, and majority Hispanic and
>> black (and quite a lot of "Blaxicans").
>>
>> That school was a polling location for three precincts (ours is one).
>> There were three machines, total. The lines were 2-4 hours long.
>>
>> In addition, election day is a weekday, and while employers are
>> required by law to allow employees time to vote, many do not.
>
> That's one non-obvious advantage of compulsory voting. It effectively
> forces the state to make voting easier. All of our elections are on
> Saturdays, and in the worst voting queue I remember the delay was under
> ten minutes.

When we voted a few days ago the queue was quite short, and the whole
operation took about 15 minutes. For our daughter, in Paris, it was 50
minutes.

> That was in a voting place that was right on the border
> between two electorates, making its procedures more complicated than usual.
>
> Admittedly there are still some people for whom Saturday is not a
> suitable day, but they can be handled by pre-poll voting and postal voting.
>
>> Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of
>> thousands of voters from the roles based on their last names, trying
>> to purge black and Hispanic voters.
>
> Removing voters from the roll, whether it be because of racial
> discrimination or any other reason, would be a serious crime in this
> country. I haven't checked the penalties, but I wouldn't be surprised by
> a 20-year prison sentence for someone who did that. How can Florida
> officials get away with that? I would have thought that they would be in
> violation of federal law, even if state law allowed it.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On 29/04/2022 4:45 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:36:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>>
>>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>>
>>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>>> brown people.
>>
>> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
>> are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.
>>
>> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>
>
> Some people would claim that only the senile live in Florida.

How would such people deal with demographics data?

https://www.infoplease.com/us/census/florida/demographic-statistics

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:45:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:36:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
><peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year.
>>>
>>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>>
>>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>>> brown people.
>>
>>Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
>>are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.
>>
>>Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>
>
>Some people would claim that only the senile live in Florida.

I'd like to post a retort to that, but I forget what I was going to
say.

You can't spoil my mood today. Matron has promised to add a second
cup of lime Jello to my lunch tray. I think it was Matron. It's some
woman who keeps coming into my room.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 29/04/2022 5:10 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:45:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:36:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/04/22 12:59, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <t4febp$88q$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill
>>>>>> - that should never have been drafted and should not have been
>>>>>> passed, and now many Florida schools will not be able to order
>>>>>> and receive math textbooks in time for the next school year. >>
>>

>>>>
>>>>> Do those rights include the right to have one's children taught
>>>>> mathematics without political interference?
>>>> >>
>>

>>>> Florida, like all GOP-controlled states, does not believe that anyone
>>>> is allowed to do anything without political interference except shoot
>>>> brown people.
>>>
>>> Australia, as you probably know, has compulsory voting, but exemptions
>>> are made for people with senile dementia or other forms of insanity.
>>>
>>> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>>
>>
>> Some people would claim that only the senile live in Florida.
>
> I'd like to post a retort to that, but I forget what I was going to
> say.
>
> You can't spoil my mood today. Matron has promised to add a second
> cup of lime Jello to my lunch tray. I think it was Matron. It's some
> woman who keeps coming into my room.

Touché!

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
"spains...@gmail.com" <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:04:23 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
> > Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
> >
> > Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
> > teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
> > called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
> > Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
> > which is what brought him to NYC).
> >
> > Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
> > feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
> > are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
> > grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
> > interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
> > tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
> > quoted extensively from it.)
> >
> > Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> > Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> > male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> > as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>
> I think Family Guy can clear up this puzzle:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkDAb4hlof0>

You already posted that; there's B*all about mathematicians that I saw. (OK, I gave up at the 2nd advert)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:49:12 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:54:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> >Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> >> >Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> >> >male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> >> >as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
> >> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
> >> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
> >>
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html
> >
> >You really don't read what you respond to.
>
> Of course I did. Your post starts out saying "It turns out.." as if
> something new was revealed in the "Fresh Air" program, but nothing new
> was revealed.

How many "Fresh Air" listeners, moron, do you think read the NYT
story?

> There's nothing wrong with "Fresh Air" devoting a
> segment to something that is already known, but your phrasing
> suggested that it was somehow revealing that SEL was part of the
> "prohibited topics" angle.

It was to hundreds of thousands of listeners. Many stories mentioned
the banning of math books because of CRT. They didn't look into or
explicate it, so an awful lot of news directors didn't read the story, either.

> I waded through your comments about a Eucld, Archimedes, and John
> McWhorter although I have no idea why you brought those names up, and

That's just because you're very, very stupid.

> >> The New York Times
> >Metonymy for the author's actual name?
>
> I have no idea what your point is there. The article linked to was
> authored by Dana Goldstein and Stephanie Saul, but there's no
> indication that the research and review of the textbooks was done by
> them. In fact, I would not expect it to be. The actual searching
> through the 21 textbooks would be done by unnamed staff and the
> results provided to Goldstein and Saul.

Then maybe the interview _did_ include new information, but you
wouldn't know that, would you. You prefer to go off with half-cocked
knee-jerk hostility rather than stew in your own vitriol.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

You'd never make it on Entertainment Tonight.

I assume. I have never seen it.

On 2022-04-29 05:39, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/04/22 18:08, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 29.04.2022 um 09:39 geschrieben:
>>
>>> A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where
>>> someone numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many
>>> candidates there are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in
>>> the order the candidates are listed.
>>
>> A problem with your otherwise excellent voting system is the
>> obligation to number all candidates. I can see the advantage of
>> making absolutely sure that all votes count, even if it's the choice
>> between number 7 and 8 on that ballot - i. e. two candidates that
>> voter does not like at all - but I remember a ballot with 46 parties,
>> when I had never heard anything about a dozen of them and had no idea
>> what they stood for, if their name did not make it obvious.

<snippage>

> That problem has now been recognised, and the rules changed so that we
> don't have to number all the squares. In fact, we even have the option
> of voting for just one party, after which our preferences are allocated
> according to a list prepared by that party.

Glad to hear it. I can think of several candidates in various elections
that I would not consider to belong in a list, regardless of the length
of same.

> All of the above is for federal elections. In state elections each state
> can have different rules, and some states have optional preferential
> voting.
>

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:55:24 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:53:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 29/04/22 09:54, Tony Cooper wrote:

> >> > Florida now has a bill - the "Parental Rights in Education" bill -
> >> > that should never have been drafted and should not have been passed,
> >> > and now many Florida schools will not be able to order and receive
> >> > math textbooks in time for the next school year.
> >(If he knew all that, why didn't he provide clarifications when the
> >question came up a week or two ago?)
>
> DeSantis isn't concerned with the fall-out of his actions. His only
> concern is how his actions will be perceived by the electorate. He
> has total control of the legislature, and has coerced them into
> passing numerous bills that everyone knew would be overuled and
> reversed in court.

How is that supposed to explain why C**p*r failed to answer
the question back when it was asked?
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>How many "Fresh Air" listeners, moron, do you think read the NYT
>story?

Moron, nomor.
Just a thought.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:49:12 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:54:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>> >> >Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>> >> >male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>> >> >as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>> >> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
>> >> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html
>> >
>> >You really don't read what you respond to.
>>
>> Of course I did. Your post starts out saying "It turns out.." as if
>> something new was revealed in the "Fresh Air" program, but nothing new
>> was revealed.
>
>How many "Fresh Air" listeners, moron, do you think read the NYT
>story?
>
Whew! Is that another question I am expected to answer? Maybe
provide a Ven diagram?

Are you somehow under the impression that the NYT was the only source
that covered the story?

When the phrase "It turns out that..." is used, it's used to mean that
something has been revealed that contradicts previous information or
provides information that casts a new light on what was previously
known.

>> There's nothing wrong with "Fresh Air" devoting a
>> segment to something that is already known, but your phrasing
>> suggested that it was somehow revealing that SEL was part of the
>> "prohibited topics" angle.
>
>It was to hundreds of thousands of listeners. Many stories mentioned
>the banning of math books because of CRT. They didn't look into or
>explicate it, so an awful lot of news directors didn't read the story, either.

Those "many" stories must have circulated only in Jersey City NJ, and
those lackadaisical news directors must all work for outlets in
Hudson County NJ. Every one I came across either mentioned both CRT
and SEL or simply "prohibited topics".

>> I waded through your comments about a Eucld, Archimedes, and John
>> McWhorter although I have no idea why you brought those names up, and
>
>That's just because you're very, very stupid.

Screw Archimedes.

>
>> >> The New York Times
>> >Metonymy for the author's actual name?
>>
>> I have no idea what your point is there. The article linked to was
>> authored by Dana Goldstein and Stephanie Saul, but there's no
>> indication that the research and review of the textbooks was done by
>> them. In fact, I would not expect it to be. The actual searching
>> through the 21 textbooks would be done by unnamed staff and the
>> results provided to Goldstein and Saul.
>
>Then maybe the interview _did_ include new information, but you
>wouldn't know that, would you. You prefer to go off with half-cocked
>knee-jerk hostility rather than stew in your own vitriol.

There's an image that one might expect drawn by William Hogarth...a
man with half a cock and twitching knees stewing in a vat of vitriol.

>> --
>> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>
>You'd never make it on Entertainment Tonight.
>
Your wit is only exceed by your charm.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

In message <jd2gaeFbtkuU1@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> On 2022-04-29 11:55:38 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

>> On 29/04/22 21:30, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <t4fmfe$ote$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> Florida gives me the impression that only the senile vote.
>>>
>>> Oh no, if that were true the results would be randomized and much
>>> better.
>>>
>>> The problem in Florida, and in most states, is that the are a wide
>>> variety of mechanisms in place to discourage poor people and
>>> minorities from voting while making it as easy as possible for rich
>>> and middle class people to vote.
>>>
>>> In 2016, Trump Lost Colorado,

> I expect in Colorado you're very proud of Lauren Boebert.

I was very disappointed to hear that her fight with Marjorie did not
result in a double fatality, Neither one of them should have been
allowed to even take their seat, as both had committed felonies between
the election and being sworn in.

--
I WILL NOT TRADE PANTS WITH OTHERS Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F05

In message <gkln6h5vgso3d60igg3s51763ahr51put9@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:30:19 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>>Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of thousands of
>>voters from the roles based on their last names, trying to purge black
>>and Hispanic voters.

> What's this? I have no idea what you might be thinking of, and I
> follow Florida news very closely.

<https://prospect.org/power/florida-s-voter-purge-hell/>

Just one example, but there have been other instances of Florida
removing voters, strangely almost always minorities.

--
'When you've been a wizard as long as I have, my boy, you'll learn
that as soon as you find anything that offers amazing
possibilities for the improvement of the human condition, it's
best to put the lid back on and pretend it never happened.' --The
Last Continent

In message <t4gios$p8e$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/04/22 18:08, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 29.04.2022 um 09:39 geschrieben:
>>
>>> A complicating factor is the so-called "donkey vote", where
>>> someone numbers the candidates from 1 to 8 (or however many
>>> candidates there are), starting with 1 at the top and continuing in
>>> the order the candidates are listed.
>>
>> A problem with your otherwise excellent voting system is the
>> obligation to number all candidates. I can see the advantage of
>> making absolutely sure that all votes count, even if it's the choice
>> between number 7 and 8 on that ballot - i. e. two candidates that
>> voter does not like at all - but I remember a ballot with 46 parties,
>> when I had never heard anything about a dozen of them and had no idea
>> what they stood for, if their name did not make it obvious.

> We vote for two houses of parliament. In the House of Representatives
> vote there are almost never more than ten candidates per electorate, and
> typically you get only four or five. Under those conditions, having to
> number every square is not a problem.

It is if you are expected to know anything at all about more than three
or four of them.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh... yeah, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our
size?"

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
> "spains...@gmail.com" <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:04:23 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
>>> Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
>>> [...]
>>> Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
>>> Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
>>> male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
>>> as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
>>
>> I think Family Guy can clear up this puzzle:
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkDAb4hlof0>
>
> You already posted that; there's B*all about mathematicians that I
> saw. (OK, I gave up at the 2nd advert)

There's an explanation who's really white, "white white" right at the
beginning.

--
I don't see people ... as having a right to be idiots. It's
just impractical to try to stop them, unless they're hurting
somebody. -- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:54:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
>> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html
>
> You really don't read what you respond to. You managed to find
> the very article that was being discussed, by its author, on that
> radio program (which for some reason I cannot view because
> I have "reached my limit" of free articles -- going back how many
> years, I wonder, since I only go there when someone provides
> an intriguing link, which is quite rare).

Those limits are usually per month, but can be very low, 2 or even 1
with some publications.

--
The wrong body ... now comes not to claim rightness but to
dismantle the system that metes out rightness and wrongness
according to the dictates of various social orders.
-- Jack Halberstam, Unbuilding Gender

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:39:47 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <gkln6h5vgso3d60igg3s51763ahr51put9@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:30:19 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>>>Add to that that Florida, specifically, removed hundreds of thousands of
>>>voters from the roles based on their last names, trying to purge black
>>>and Hispanic voters.
>
>> What's this? I have no idea what you might be thinking of, and I
>> follow Florida news very closely.
>
><https://prospect.org/power/florida-s-voter-purge-hell/>
>
>Just one example, but there have been other instances of Florida
>removing voters, strangely almost always minorities.

I assume you read the article, and that whatever schools you attended
did provide math textbooks that gave you a working knowledge of how
numbers are represented.

That article refers to a list of 180,000 *potential* non-citizens. The
list was then narrowed down to 2,700 *potential* non-citizens. The
list was based on DMV records of driver's license applications.

The narrowed-down list was then sent to county Election officials.
Some did not take any action, and some sent out letters to those on
the list.

The article then goes on about the "purge", but does not state that
any on the list were removed as ineligible voters. It does not even
say if any on the list actually registered to vote. All they did was
apply for a driver's license or a state ID.

No one can be purged from the voter rolls who has not registered. They
are not on the rolls unless they are registered.

So...we go from "hundreds of thousands" to 180,000 to 2,700 to 26 in
Collier County. Oh, and 8 of the 26 were removed only because they
didn't respond to the letter and it's not known if they were eligible.

I do wonder if your "other instances" are any more credible than this
instance.

The Governor of Florida, and the legislature of Florida, *is* actively
attempting (and succeeding to) the suppression of the Black and brown
vote in Florida. They're doing it by gerrymandering voting districts
to eliminate districts that are likely to elect Democrats, and by
creating election laws that make it more difficult to register and to
vote.

The thing that bothers me is that there are some real problems that
should be addressed, but there are too many people - like you - that
ignore the real problems but swallow the webmyths and propogate them.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:54:26 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >This afternoon on WHYY's "Fresh Air," Terry Gross interviewed the NYT's
> >Dana Goldstein about the "Don't Say Gay" Bill in Florida.
> >
> >Turns out the problem with math textbooks isn't that they embody or
> >teach Critical Race Theory, but that they are suffused with something
> >called "social-emotional learning," a new threat invented by one Chris
> >Ruffo of the Manhattan Institute (McWhorter's old stomping ground,
> >which is what brought him to NYC).
> >
> >Social-emotional learning encourages children to talk about their
> >feelings. Ruffo says. Ruffo thinks that the perpetrators of this horror
> >are trying to turn them into homosexuals or transes, or they're
> >grooming them for their pedophilic use. (He wasn't willing to be
> >interviewed by her, so she doesn't have him saying that stuff on
> >tape, but he had an extended email conversation with her, and she
> >quoted extensively from it.)
> >
> >Though she did say that one of the books had a unit on Great
> >Mathematicians of the Past, and only one of them was both
> >male and white. (I suppose medieval Arabs could be counted
> >as non-white, but Euclid or Archimedes?)
> "Fresh Air" is a bit late to the party. Rufo (one "f") has been
> attacking "Social & Emotional Learning" (SEL) in schools since March.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html
>
> "It turns out..." is not a correct assessment. All of the news
> articles I've read on the math books issue have covered that the
> excluded books included references to "Critical Race Theory" and
> "Social & Emotional Learning". Or, as the Florida Department of
> Education officials put it, "prohibited topics".
>
> CRT, though, is the red-meat term and most people read the articles,
> glommed on to CRT, and glossed over the SEL term.
>
> The real problem has been that the Florida Department of Education
> spokespeople didn't identify what was in any of the textbooks that was
> a "prohibited topic", refused to provide any examples, and refused to
> even name the textbooks.
>
Ah so. Well Chris Ruffo is quoted as having an additional concern. I
don't see why he should fear that either CRT or SEL promotes
homosexuality.

Dingbat <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> quotes:
>>>teach Critical Race Theory,

There it is! "Critical Race Theory"!
(So far, I was only aware of "Cathode Ray Tube".)