On 5/2/2022 10:17 AM, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> Janet wrote:
>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> scribeva:

>>>>> My wife and I changed our voter registration to reflect our
>>>>> new address at the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles) office
>>>>> when we applied for new driver's licenses because of the
>>>>> change in our address.

>>>> In the Netherlands where I live, no voter registration is
>>>> necessary, because municipalities have a registration of the
>>>> people who live there.

>>> In the UK, not every resident is entitled to vote. YMMV

>>> Those who are entitled to vote, are required to register on the
>>> electoral roll.

>>> From July each year Electoral Registration Offices (EROs)
>>> contact households to check if the details on the electoral
>>> register are correct. This is called the annual canvass.

>>> https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register

>>> Political Party membership in UK is entirely divorced from
>>> entries on the Electoral Roll, the right to vote, and votes
>>> made.

>>> I always vote, I've never registered as a member of any
>>> political party. Tactical voting is widespread in UK.

>>> https://tactical.vote/

>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in
>> the primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be;

> Yes, I know. I always perceived that as a bad practice. The French
> system of two round voting is much better.

Are the candidates in France or the Netherlands nominated by party
members, as they are in the British (and Canadian) system? In the US,
anyone can present themself as a candidate in the primaries, and the
registered voters choose which of them is to represent their (pl) party.

>> it does not commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long
>> been a registered Republican, but has said here that he has not
>> voted for their candidate for a long time.

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 11:21:09 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 10:17 AM, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > CDB <belle...@gmail.com> scribeva:

> >> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in
> >> the primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be;
> > Yes, I know. I always perceived that as a bad practice. The French
> > system of two round voting is much better.
>
> Are the candidates in France or the Netherlands nominated by party
> members, as they are in the British (and Canadian) system? In the US,
> anyone can present themself as a candidate in the primaries, and the
> registered voters choose which of them is to represent their (pl) party.

If they don't go through the party system, they need to have an
appropriate number of signatures on nominating petitions. (The
signers have to be registered voters residing in the district.) Lower
offices have lower numbers of required signatures. You have to
get lots more signatures than you need, because they can be
challenged on both the named grounds.

It used to be that one disallowed signature on a petition would
invalidate the whole 25 or whatever on that page. Hopefully that
isn't the case anywhere any more.

On Mon, 02 May 2022 09:48:47 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>>
>>
>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>for a long time.
>>
>
>Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>
>I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.

You've left this unstated -- If the Republican candidate is going
to win the state-wide office, then you have to be registered as
a Republican and vote in that primary, if you want your vote to
matter in selecting that candidate.

I grew up in Texas in the 1960s where "everyone" registered
as Democrat, for that reason. The South was a Democratic
block of that sort, including southern racists and the lobby money
from oil, tobacco, and cotton.

The Voting Rights Act of 1965 is credited with conceding the South
to Republicans, whose domination (largely) still holds. But I think
it is relevant that the party also went after corporate contributions
and became the party that is anti-environmental and anti-union.
Nowadays, increasingly anti-science and anti-expert.

--
Rich Ulrich

* Ruud Harmsen:

> Mon, 2 May 2022 05:03:16 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>>On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:29:14 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Sun, 01 May 2022 11:15:41 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
>>> scribeva:
>>
>>> > My wife and I changed our voter registration to reflect our new
>>> > address at the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles) office when we applied
>>> > for new driver's licenses because of the change in our address.
>>>
>>> In the Netherlands where I live, no voter registration is necessary,
>>> because municipalities have a registration of the people who live
>>> there. Municipalities exchange the data when people move. For every
>>> election, potential voters automatically get a card sent to their home
>>> address so they can vote.
>>
>>That means you have those infamous "papers" you have to carry.
>
> Electronic voting would be much better. But they never managed to make
> it 1. safe 2. secret. 3 traceable enough. Or reproducible, is probably
> a better word. Recountable.

Yes, the matter of recount is a big one. AIUI, the experts are favoring
paper for the time being.

I think an important consideration is that democracy needs a system that
most people understand and trust (to a degree), and that's hard to
achieve with purely electronic systems.

The first time I ever participated in an election, it was using a
machine, purely mechanical at the time (1980s). Even those were viewed
with suspicion. Some people claimed the polling officers could
distinguish the selections by sound. Those machines mostly fell out of
use because most elections had more choices than the machines could
accomodate (12, I think).

--
- There's someone here wanting to audition. - OK, Who is he?
- Well, it's not exactly a he. - OK, Who is she?
- Well, it's not exactly a she. ... it's sort of a they.
- You mean there's more than one? - Not really.
- Good grief, it's a triple-header.
-> <https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Tom,_Dick,_and_Harry>

* CDB:

> On 5/2/2022 10:17 AM, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>> Janet wrote:
>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
>>>>>> My wife and I changed our voter registration to reflect our
>>>>>> new address at the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles) office
>>>>>> when we applied for new driver's licenses because of the
>>>>>> change in our address.
>
>>>>> In the Netherlands where I live, no voter registration is
>>>>> necessary, because municipalities have a registration of the
>>>>> people who live there.
>
>>>> In the UK, not every resident is entitled to vote. YMMV
>
>>>> Those who are entitled to vote, are required to register on the
>>>> electoral roll.
>
>>>> From July each year Electoral Registration Offices (EROs)
>>>> contact households to check if the details on the electoral
>>>> register are correct. This is called the annual canvass.
>
>>>> https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register
>
>>>> Political Party membership in UK is entirely divorced from
>>>> entries on the Electoral Roll, the right to vote, and votes
>>>> made.
>
>>>> I always vote, I've never registered as a member of any
>>>> political party. Tactical voting is widespread in UK.
>
>>>> https://tactical.vote/
>
>>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in
>>> the primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be;
>
>> Yes, I know. I always perceived that as a bad practice. The French
>> system of two round voting is much better.
>
> Are the candidates in France or the Netherlands nominated by party
> members, as they are in the British (and Canadian) system? In the US,
> anyone can present themself as a candidate in the primaries, and the
> registered voters choose which of them is to represent their (pl) party.

It makes no difference whether this "their" is plural, to mean all of
them collectively, or singular, to mean each of them individually.
That's why "their" is quite natural in "every" phrases.

--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945

On Mon, 02 May 2022 12:02:35 -0400, Rich Ulrich
<rich.ulrich@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 May 2022 09:48:47 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>for a long time.
>>>
>>
>>Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>>
>>I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>>offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>>candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>>Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>>qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.
>
>You've left this unstated -- If the Republican candidate is going
>to win the state-wide office, then you have to be registered as
>a Republican and vote in that primary, if you want your vote to
>matter in selecting that candidate.
>

I should have written "Not for a Republican candidate for state or
federal office in the General Election". As a registered Republican,
I can vote only in the Primary for Republicans, and I have voted in
every Primary, so I have voted for Republicans. I vote for the
least-worst candidate and that is rarely the candidate who will be on
the General Election ballot.

>I grew up in Texas in the 1960s where "everyone" registered
>as Democrat, for that reason. The South was a Democratic
>block of that sort, including southern racists and the lobby money
>from oil, tobacco, and cotton.
>
>The Voting Rights Act of 1965 is credited with conceding the South
>to Republicans, whose domination (largely) still holds. But I think
>it is relevant that the party also went after corporate contributions
>and became the party that is anti-environmental and anti-union.
>Nowadays, increasingly anti-science and anti-expert.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

* Tony Cooper:

> On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>for a long time.
>>
>
> Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>
> I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
> offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
> candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
> Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
> qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.

An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
light on how it really works.

Even on the provincial level, provincial parties not affiliated with
federal ones are quite important, but that may be an effect of Quebec's
special identity.

--
For some reason, we wanna know. Food, shelter, water, and can I fuck
you? And are you a threat? It's this weird thing that people kinda have
to be unwired from.
-- Rain Dove

On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:

>
> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
> primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
> commit you to vote for the candidate.  Tony has long been a registered
> Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
> for a long time.

I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.

If I chose to join (say) the Conservative party[1], I would pay them £25
p/a and they would add me to the membership list which they keep.

My membership of a party is of no concern to no-one else.

[1] It's a bargain, since the Labour party want £56.04 p/a to join their
club.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Mon, 2 May 2022 18:54:10 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:
>
>>
>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>> primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>> commit you to vote for the candidate.  Tony has long been a registered
>> Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>> for a long time.
>
>I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
>'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.

While it is the "government" that retains the list of party
affiliation, it is not the government that uses the list other than to
determine which primary I can vote in. And, that is true only in
states like Florida that has "closed primaries".
>
>If I chose to join (say) the Conservative party[1], I would pay them £25
>p/a and they would add me to the membership list which they keep.
>
>My membership of a party is of no concern to no-one else.
>
>[1] It's a bargain, since the Labour party want £56.04 p/a to join their
>club.

As best I can understand it, it is for the benefit of the political
party. Each party can obtain the names and addresses of all people
registered as affiliated with that party.

This provides them with a mailing list that they can use to send out
mailers. When an election nears, our mailbox is stuffed with
postcards and letters encouraging us to vote for particular
candidates. In our case, from candidates of both parties since I'm a
registered Republican and my wife is a registered Democrat.

In past days, it also provided a means to contact potential voters by
telephone. When everyone had a landline, the phone number was
available in the "white pages" of the phone directory. It was not
unusual to get two or three calls a week from pollsters asking
questions about my view of individual candidates.

With the demise of the landline, and the fact that mobile phone
numbers are not listed anywhere (that I know of), phone contact has
diminished.

In addition to "Vote for Me" mailings, fund raising mailers fill the
mailbox. Trump sends me several letters a month saying that he values
my input on issues, wants to know how I rank issues in importance, and
stressing that my contributions to his PAC are essential to taking
back the country.

I think that when the registration system was first initiated, some
representitive of a political party went to some Supervisor of
Elections and asked for a list. Absent any law or rule that the list
couldn't be turned over, the request was granted. That fact that
there wasn't a law or rule against it was just an oversight.

Now, no lawmaker will propose such a law because it works to the
benefit of that lawmaker's political party.

The only "opt out" option that I have is to register as "no party
affiliation". That might mean both party's send me mailings.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:13:51 AM UTC-7, Quinn C wrote:

> An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
> parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
> are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
> everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
> light on how it really works.

That's more or less standard across Canada. Local parties in municipal
elections rarely have formal ties with provincial or federal parties, nor are
there usually formal ties between federal and provincial parties, even when
they share the same name (especially Liberal or Conservative) and political
philosophy.

Example: a member of a provincial Liberal party could not run for the federal
Liberal party without first becoming a member, of the federal party.
>
> Even on the provincial level, provincial parties not affiliated with
> federal ones are quite important, but that may be an effect of Quebec's
> special identity.
>
Quebec is unique in Canada for various reasons, including the "two nations"
history, the French-English language split, etc. And because Ontario and Quebec
have the largest populations among provinces, they also elect the most
candidates to the national Parliament, which makes those two provinces'
voters collectively the most influential in Canada.

(This gives rise to long-term resentment of Ontario and Quebec in every
other province, which is a key part of our national identity. Things were
even more complex when Quebec separatism was a concern, but those
days seem to be behind us for now, though not forgotten.)

bill

On 2022-05-02, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 02/05/22 15:29, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 01 May 2022 11:15:41 -0400: Tony Cooper
>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
>>> My wife and I changed our voter registration to reflect our new
>>> address at the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles) office when we
>>> applied for new driver's licenses because of the change in our
>>> address.
>>
>> In the Netherlands where I live, no voter registration is necessary,
>> because municipalities have a registration of the people who live
>> there. Municipalities exchange the data when people move. For every
>> election, potential voters automatically get a card sent to their
>> home address so they can vote.
>
> When I got married in Belgium I ran into the assumption that every
> country does it that way. I had to supply a "certificat de domicile": an
> official document specifying my nationality and current address, and
> they wouldn't accept my statement that Australia doesn't have such a
> thing. "Just ask for it at the town hall", they said. But the town hall
> didn't know where I lived. "Then get it at the police station", they
> said. Couldn't do that, because I didn't have a criminal record.
>
> I thought I could solve the problem by asking the AEC (the body that
> runs elections), because they do have my address. No luck there, either.
> They could certify my registered address, but couldn't certify that I
> was an Australian citizen, because of a grandfather clause that allows
> some UK citizens to vote in Australia.

Is this a bureaucrat stereotype rule that *one* official document has
to specify nationality & current address? (Otherwise you could show
them your passport & AEC document.)

> It took several months of back-and-forth mail to sort that out. I was
> surprised to find Europeans, of all people, who didn't understand that
> not all countries are the same.
>

--
The [music] business would be a good thing, except that it's
dominated by drug addicts and businessmen. ---Tom Scholz

On 2022-05-02, Quinn C wrote:

> * Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>for a long time.
>>>
>>
>> Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>>
>> I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>> offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>> candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>> Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>> qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.
>
> An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
> parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
> are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
> everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
> light on how it really works.

I like that idea. I sometimes think local government in the UK & the
USA would be better if affiliation with national parties were banned
(somehow).

> Even on the provincial level, provincial parties not affiliated with
> federal ones are quite important, but that may be an effect of Quebec's
> special identity.
>

--
Well, we had a lot of luck on Venus
We always had a ball on Mars

On 2022-05-02, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Mon, 02 May 2022 12:02:35 -0400, Rich Ulrich
><rich.ulrich@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 02 May 2022 09:48:47 -0400, Tony Cooper
>><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>>for a long time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>>>
>>>I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>>>offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>>>candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>>>Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>>>qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.
>>
>>You've left this unstated -- If the Republican candidate is going
>>to win the state-wide office, then you have to be registered as
>>a Republican and vote in that primary, if you want your vote to
>>matter in selecting that candidate.
>>
>
> I should have written "Not for a Republican candidate for state or
> federal office in the General Election". As a registered Republican,
> I can vote only in the Primary for Republicans, and I have voted in
> every Primary, so I have voted for Republicans. I vote for the
> least-worst candidate and that is rarely the candidate who will be on
> the General Election ballot.

At least you're trying!

>>I grew up in Texas in the 1960s where "everyone" registered
>>as Democrat, for that reason. The South was a Democratic
>>block of that sort, including southern racists and the lobby money
>>from oil, tobacco, and cotton.
>>
>>The Voting Rights Act of 1965 is credited with conceding the South
>>to Republicans, whose domination (largely) still holds. But I think
>>it is relevant that the party also went after corporate contributions
>>and became the party that is anti-environmental and anti-union.
>>Nowadays, increasingly anti-science and anti-expert.

--
Outside of the city limits the heart of darkness, the true wasteland
begins. --Ignatius J Reillly

On 2022-05-02, Lewis wrote:

> In message <oq0r6h9946f2g9cmb1vesl3sub0ir8egu7@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Your map of Florida omits Tampa and the surrounding counties? The
>> those-of-Cuban-descents in that area are mostly third- and
>> fourth-generation, though, and less of a voting bloc. Still, there
>> are about 80,000 in Tampa, and that's a lot of votes to go after.
>
> The conservative Rah-Rah Republican Cubans tend to be in Miami. The

Is this still a consequence of the Cuban Revolution?

> TreasonParty does not care about the rest of them, and considers them
> scum, just like anyone else with maybe somewhat darker skin.
>

--
And don't forget my dog, fixed and consequent

On Mon, 02 May 2022 20:29:04 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2022-05-02, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>>for a long time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>>>
>>> I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>>> offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>>> candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>>> Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>>> qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.
>>
>> An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
>> parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
>> are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
>> everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
>> light on how it really works.
>
>I like that idea. I sometimes think local government in the UK & the
>USA would be better if affiliation with national parties were banned
>(somehow).

Oh, we have "non-partisan" elective offices at the local level.

The candidates for those offices are not listed by party affiliation
on the ballot or in their advertising.

They rely, instead, on other means to communicate any political
leanings. "Your Conservative choice", for example, is code for "If
you want a Republican in this office, I'd be a good choice".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:54:16 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:

> > Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
> > primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
> > commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
> > Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
> > for a long time.
>
> I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
> 'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.

It's "the government" -- usually a county Board of Elections -- that
administers elections (subject to the supervision of, usually, the
state's Secretary of State). How could they do that if they didn't
know who was qualified to receive which party's ballot during the
voting in the primary?

Remember, our candidates are selected by the people, not by a
cabal tucked away in a formerly smoke-filled room. You've been
through, what, three Tory PMs in a row now with no input at all
from the voters on the choice?

> If I chose to join (say) the Conservative party[1], I would pay them £25
> p/a and they would add me to the membership list which they keep.

We went through this some months ago. US political parties do not
work that way in the slightest.
> My membership of a party is of no concern to no-one else.
>
> [1] It's a bargain, since the Labour party want £56.04 p/a to join their
> club.

And what is that money used for?

On 2022-05-02 11:54, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:
>
>>
>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>> primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>> commit you to vote for the candidate.  Tony has long been a registered
>> Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>> for a long time.
>
> I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
> 'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.
>
> If I chose to join (say) the Conservative party[1], I would pay them £25
> p/a and they would add me to the membership list which they keep.

Conservative Party membership in Canada is $15.00 p/a I joined as soon
as Erin the Tool became leader.

> My membership of a party is of no concern to no-one else.
>
> [1] It's a bargain, since the Labour party want £56.04 p/a to join their
> club.
>
>

On Mon, 02 May 2022 20:27:34 +0100
Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

[]
>
> --
> Outside of the city limits the heart of darkness, the true wasteland
> begins. --Ignatius J Reillly

I suspect Ignatius would have been fullly capable of the pretentiousness of the third 'l', but I don't think he did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Confederacy_of_Dunces#Ignatius_J._Reilly

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

In message <78o5kixior.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-02, Lewis wrote:

>> In message <oq0r6h9946f2g9cmb1vesl3sub0ir8egu7@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Your map of Florida omits Tampa and the surrounding counties? The
>>> those-of-Cuban-descents in that area are mostly third- and
>>> fourth-generation, though, and less of a voting bloc. Still, there
>>> are about 80,000 in Tampa, and that's a lot of votes to go after.
>>
>> The conservative Rah-Rah Republican Cubans tend to be in Miami. The

> Is this still a consequence of the Cuban Revolution?

Seems to be, but I don't run in to many Cubans this far west.

--
A.D. 1517: Martin Luther nails his 95 Theses to the church door and
is promptly moderated down to (-1, Flamebait). -- Yu Suzuki

* bil...@shaw.ca:

> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 10:13:51 AM UTC-7, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
>> parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
>> are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
>> everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
>> light on how it really works.
>
> That's more or less standard across Canada. Local parties in municipal
> elections rarely have formal ties with provincial or federal parties, nor are
> there usually formal ties between federal and provincial parties, even when
> they share the same name (especially Liberal or Conservative) and political
> philosophy.
>
> Example: a member of a provincial Liberal party could not run for the federal
> Liberal party without first becoming a member, of the federal party.

Ok, but nobody really believes in that fine distinction, do they?
Commentary never bothers to even say. It's "the Liberals" and "the NDP"
that we hear about in the provincial elections, without adding "of
Quebec", like, ever.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:54:16 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:
>
>>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>> primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>> commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>> Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>> for a long time.
>>
>> I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
>> 'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.
>
> It's "the government" -- usually a county Board of Elections -- that
> administers elections (subject to the supervision of, usually, the
> state's Secretary of State). How could they do that if they didn't
> know who was qualified to receive which party's ballot during the
> voting in the primary?

Which raises the question: Did Trump become president because a bunch of
Democrats registered as Republicans in an attempt to sabotage the
Republican Party by voting for the candidate they thought couldn't
possibly win?

In the American system, there's no good reason for the President to be
affiliated with a party in the first place. In the German system, you
elect a party to govern, not a person, so the head of government should
be very much aligned with the party and its platform, or it's confusing.

--
We shall never believe in things (even if this belief is based
in a so-called eternity), which can become a means of oppression.
-- Hedwig Dohm (1876), my translation

* Adam Funk:

> On 2022-05-02, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 09:08:03 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>>primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>>commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>>Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>>for a long time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Correct. Not for a Republican candidate for state or federal office.
>>>
>>> I have voted for some Republican candidates for local (County)
>>> offices. One in particular. The problem with supporting Democratic
>>> candidates in any Florida election is that the state and county
>>> Democratic party is so weak and ineffectual that no one with any
>>> qualifications wants to run as a Democrat.
>>
>> An interesting aspect of politics here in Montreal is that the federal
>> parties play no role at all in local elections. All seats on the council
>> are held by local parties with names like "Projet Montreal". In Toronto,
>> everyone seems to be (officially) Independent, but maybe others can shed
>> light on how it really works.
>
> I like that idea. I sometimes think local government in the UK & the
> USA would be better if affiliation with national parties were banned
> (somehow).

There's no such ban in Germany, but Independents and small parties fare
much better in local elections than in larger-scale ones. In many
smaller municipalities, the council is forever in the hands of a "Free
Voters Association" or such. The 93 seats on the Frankfurt City Council
are spread out between 16 parties, with none gathering more than 25%.

--
- You've dragged me down to your level. Your stupidity has finally
rubbed off on me. I was a scholar when I met you, Erin, a scholar!
- You were three.
-- Derry Girls, S03E01

* Adam Funk:

> On 2022-05-02, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/22 15:29, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Sun, 01 May 2022 11:15:41 -0400: Tony Cooper
>>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>
>>>> My wife and I changed our voter registration to reflect our new
>>>> address at the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles) office when we
>>>> applied for new driver's licenses because of the change in our
>>>> address.
>>>
>>> In the Netherlands where I live, no voter registration is necessary,
>>> because municipalities have a registration of the people who live
>>> there. Municipalities exchange the data when people move. For every
>>> election, potential voters automatically get a card sent to their
>>> home address so they can vote.
>>
>> When I got married in Belgium I ran into the assumption that every
>> country does it that way. I had to supply a "certificat de domicile": an
>> official document specifying my nationality and current address, and
>> they wouldn't accept my statement that Australia doesn't have such a
>> thing. "Just ask for it at the town hall", they said. But the town hall
>> didn't know where I lived. "Then get it at the police station", they
>> said. Couldn't do that, because I didn't have a criminal record.
>>
>> I thought I could solve the problem by asking the AEC (the body that
>> runs elections), because they do have my address. No luck there, either.
>> They could certify my registered address, but couldn't certify that I
>> was an Australian citizen, because of a grandfather clause that allows
>> some UK citizens to vote in Australia.
>
> Is this a bureaucrat stereotype rule that *one* official document has
> to specify nationality & current address? (Otherwise you could show
> them your passport & AEC document.)

There is no such document in Germany, either. The document that carries
your address is the ID card that is only handed out to German citizens,
so that's implicit, but a resident who isn't a citizen can't prove both
at once.

I don't remember if the Foreigner's Registration Card (or what it's
called) I got in Japan stated my nationality, but even if it did, I
doubt it would be treated as official enough for the purpose. When there
are serious doubts, even a German passport isn't enough to prove
citizenship.

--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch

On Mon, 2 May 2022 18:40:15 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:54:16 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 02-May-22 14:08, CDB wrote:
>>
>>>> Registering as a "party-supporter" in the US allows you to vote in the
>>>> primaries that determine who that party's candidate will be; it does not
>>>> commit you to vote for the candidate. Tony has long been a registered
>>>> Republican, but has said here that he has not voted for their candidate
>>>> for a long time.
>>>
>>> I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
>>> 'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.
>>
>> It's "the government" -- usually a county Board of Elections -- that
>> administers elections (subject to the supervision of, usually, the
>> state's Secretary of State). How could they do that if they didn't
>> know who was qualified to receive which party's ballot during the
>> voting in the primary?
>
>Which raises the question: Did Trump become president because a bunch of
>Democrats registered as Republicans in an attempt to sabotage the
>Republican Party by voting for the candidate they thought couldn't
>possibly win?
>
That "spoiler" voting exists as a factor only in the Primary. The
intent is to have a non-electable candidate the nominee of the party.

The 2016 GOP Primaries were basically a contest between Ted Cruz and
Donald Trump. If a candidate would have emerged from that contest as
a result of a spoiler vote, it would have been Marco Rubio or maybe
John Kasich. Neither would have been considered to have much of
chance against Hillary.

>In the American system, there's no good reason for the President to be
>affiliated with a party in the first place. In the German system, you
>elect a party to govern, not a person, so the head of government should
>be very much aligned with the party and its platform, or it's confusing.

That assumes that the party *has* a platform that the voters can
identify and agree with. In the US, the platform the voters identify
with is whatever the candidate declares to be his or her primary
objectives. After the election, the party aligns with the winning
candidate.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 02-May-22 23:40, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 1:54:16 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>>> I understand that is how it is done, but I still find it odd that a
>>> 'government' should have reason to keep a register of party affiliation.
>>
>> It's "the government" -- usually a county Board of Elections -- that
>> administers elections (subject to the supervision of, usually, the
>> state's Secretary of State). How could they do that if they didn't
>> know who was qualified to receive which party's ballot during the
>> voting in the primary?

In the UK, the local branch of a party chooses who their candidate
should be.

The procedure the party uses to select that candidate is entirely up to
them. I assume they will canvass the opinions of all the local party
members, but they do whatever they think best.

None of this is any concern of any government body.

--
Sam Plusnet