On 2/26/2024 5:53 AM, D wrote:
>

>
> Energy storage based on batteries at national level is impossible with
> todays technology.
>
> Wind and solar are great, as long as there is wind and sun. When not, it
> is horribly bad.
>

You say "today's technology" and that is correct. Tomorrow is a new
story.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/04/12/solar-energy-can-now-be-stored-for-up-to-18-years-say-scientists

On 2/26/2024 8:47 AM, heyjoe wrote:
> Ed P wrote :
>
>> Oil is a finite material. It won't run out in our lifetime, but perhaps
>> our grandchildren. Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>
>> What is your plan?
>
> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper. That will happen before
> we run out of fossil fuels.
>

Sometimes the free market need a nudge. Should we do away with all
regulation? Sure, some is excessive, but look at the safety aspects of
the automobile. Should we bring back leaded gas and let the market decide?

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, heyjoe wrote:

> D wrote :
>
>> That's green socialism for you! Welcome to team Trump! ;)
>
> I'm not on Team Trump. Trump is not a nice person and should he be
> elected POTUS, he'll be a lame duck from day one. Even more
> handicapped than he was in his first term.
>
> Biden is a professional politician. We've already got waay too many
> of those in Washington, DC. Let Biden get out on the campaign trail,
> in front of voters, so they can judge for themselves whether or not
> he's still capable of being the leader of the US. That will not
> happen.
>
> Neither Biden, nor Trump are good choices for POTUS in 2024.
> Not sure I can pinch my nose hard enough to vote for either of those
> two.

Wow, this seems like a very uncommon balanced and realistic position. In a
completely ideal scenario I'd vote for Ron Paul myself.

I find it very interesting that this election seems to be revolving around
which side is better at defeating its nausea. ;)

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, heyjoe wrote:

> Ed P wrote :
>
>> Oil is a finite material. It won't run out in our lifetime, but perhaps
>> our grandchildren. Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>
>> What is your plan?
>
> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper. That will happen before
> we run out of fossil fuels.

Amen! Wise words and I agree 100%.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:

> On 2/26/2024 5:53 AM, D wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Energy storage based on batteries at national level is impossible with
>> todays technology.
>>
>> Wind and solar are great, as long as there is wind and sun. When not, it is
>> horribly bad.
>>
>
> You say "today's technology" and that is correct. Tomorrow is a new story.
>
> https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/04/12/solar-energy-can-now-be-stored-for-up-to-18-years-say-scientists

Yes, those articles do pop up every year, but until something can be
purchased on the market, it is better to disregard such stories.

I've lost count on the number of "battery breakthrough" articles I've
seen, and not to speak about fusion power. It is good, and let the science
roam free, but until I see something like that on the market, I won't
worry or count on it.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:

> On 2/26/2024 8:47 AM, heyjoe wrote:
>> Ed P wrote :
>>
>>> Oil is a finite material. It won't run out in our lifetime, but perhaps
>>> our grandchildren. Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>>
>>> What is your plan?
>>
>> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
>> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
>> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper. That will happen before
>> we run out of fossil fuels.
>>
>
>
> Sometimes the free market need a nudge. Should we do away with all
> regulation? Sure, some is excessive, but look at the safety aspects of the
> automobile. Should we bring back leaded gas and let the market decide?

If the market demands leaded gas, then why not? The free market, per
definition, does not need a nudge. Regulations, in the long term, do more
harm than good. If you would like to study the theoretical underpinnings
and explanations of why, I recommend:

The Machinery of Freedom
The Market for Liberty
and
Liberalism (by Ludwig von Mises)

All brilliant!

Best regards,
Daniel

On 2/26/2024 9:31 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2024 8:47 AM, heyjoe wrote:
>>> Ed P wrote :
>>>
>>>> Oil is a finite material.  It won't run out in our lifetime, but
>>>> perhaps
>>>> our grandchildren.  Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>>>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>>>
>>>> What is your plan?
>>>
>>> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
>>> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
>>> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper.  That will happen before
>>> we run out of fossil fuels.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sometimes the free market need a nudge.  Should we do away with all
>> regulation?  Sure, some is excessive, but look at the safety aspects
>> of the automobile.  Should we bring back leaded gas and let the market
>> decide?
>
> If the market demands leaded gas, then why not?
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>

I'm part of the market and my health is important even if you don't
think so. We don't need leaded gas.

On 2/26/2024 9:28 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2024 5:53 AM, D wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> Energy storage based on batteries at national level is impossible
>>> with todays technology.
>>>
>>> Wind and solar are great, as long as there is wind and sun. When not,
>>> it is horribly bad.
>>>
>>
>> You say "today's technology" and that is correct.  Tomorrow is a new
>> story.
>>
>> https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/04/12/solar-energy-can-now-be-stored-for-up-to-18-years-say-scientists
>
> Yes, those articles do pop up every year, but until something can be
> purchased on the market, it is better to disregard such stories.
>
> I've lost count on the number of "battery breakthrough" articles I've
> seen, and not to speak about fusion power. It is good, and let the
> science roam free, but until I see something like that on the market, I
> won't worry or count on it.

I bet if everyone had your attitude we'd still be lining in 1850s
conditions as we ignore what science is doing.

On 2024-02-26, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
> On 2/26/2024 8:47 AM, heyjoe wrote:
>> Ed P wrote :
>>
>>> Oil is a finite material. It won't run out in our lifetime, but perhaps
>>> our grandchildren. Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>>
>>> What is your plan?
>>
>> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
>> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
>> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper. That will happen before
>> we run out of fossil fuels.
>>
>
>
> Sometimes the free market need a nudge. Should we do away with all
> regulation? Sure, some is excessive, but look at the safety aspects of
> the automobile. Should we bring back leaded gas and let the market decide?

The free market has always gotten nudges. From the railroads to
the interstates, the government has always thrown money at the
private sector like a drunken sailor at a titty bar.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:

> On 2/26/2024 9:28 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2024 5:53 AM, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Energy storage based on batteries at national level is impossible with
>>>> todays technology.
>>>>
>>>> Wind and solar are great, as long as there is wind and sun. When not, it
>>>> is horribly bad.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You say "today's technology" and that is correct.  Tomorrow is a new
>>> story.
>>>
>>> https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/04/12/solar-energy-can-now-be-stored-for-up-to-18-years-say-scientists
>>
>> Yes, those articles do pop up every year, but until something can be
>> purchased on the market, it is better to disregard such stories.
>>
>> I've lost count on the number of "battery breakthrough" articles I've seen,
>> and not to speak about fusion power. It is good, and let the science roam
>> free, but until I see something like that on the market, I won't worry or
>> count on it.
>
> I bet if everyone had your attitude we'd still be lining in 1850s conditions
> as we ignore what science is doing.
>

I bet we'd have more scientific break throughs and a more productive
society since people would be focused on solving actual problems instead
of wasting time with moon shots.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On 2024-02-26, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>> On 2/26/2024 8:47 AM, heyjoe wrote:
>>> Ed P wrote :
>>>
>>>> Oil is a finite material. It won't run out in our lifetime, but perhaps
>>>> our grandchildren. Should we start planning alternatives now or wait
>>>> until it is gone in 40 or 50 years?
>>>>
>>>> What is your plan?
>>>
>>> Let a free market, without government intervention, carry the ball.
>>> At some point, the demand for oil will pass the supply, prices will
>>> rise and alternate energies will be cheaper. That will happen before
>>> we run out of fossil fuels.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sometimes the free market need a nudge. Should we do away with all
>> regulation? Sure, some is excessive, but look at the safety aspects of
>> the automobile. Should we bring back leaded gas and let the market decide?
>
> The free market has always gotten nudges. From the railroads to
> the interstates, the government has always thrown money at the
> private sector like a drunken sailor at a titty bar.
>
>

I would actually reverse that... the free market has always had quite a
busy job fixing what the "government" (TM) has destroyed.

On 2024-02-26 10:18 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:

>> I bet if everyone had your attitude we'd still be lining in 1850s
>> conditions as we ignore what science is doing.
>>
>
> I bet we'd have more scientific break throughs and a more productive
> society since people would be focused on solving actual problems instead
> of wasting time with moon shots.

A lot of our modern products were first developed in the space program.

On 2024-02-26, GM wrote:

> Doesn't a "coup" involve [...] violence [...],
> threats of such,

"Kill Mike Pence"

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:51:49 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 18:39:36 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Hank Rogers wrote:
>>>
>>>> Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-02-24, heyjoe <address@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am looking forward to the 2024 Democratic National Convention in
>>>>>> Chicago, IL. Can't wait to see the reaction when Big Money fails to
>>>>>> support Biden for the nomination. Expect chaos will reign in the
>>>>>> convention and the streets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frankly, I expect chaos at both conventions. I'll be surprised if there
>>>>> aren't one or two new third-parties created between now and the
>>>>> election. If it's Biden vs. Trump in the General, I'll be shocked.
>>>>> We live in interesting times, and we're forced to stay tuned.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think trump will stage another coup? He probably learned from the
>>>> last one.
>>>>
>>> What coup? Oh, you mean regular political meetings!
>>
>> D's definition of a regular political meeting:
>> <https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/new_project_-_2021-11-17t131531536_11172021>
>>
>
>I don't know how old you are but put on your glasses. Donald Trump is not
>in that photo.

It's a regular political meeting of Trump zombies.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:56:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, Graham wrote:
>
>> It was Covid that fucked up the economies of every civilised nation**.
>> Biden is NOT responsible for the price increases we see for just about
>> everything.
>> **(I sometimes have my doubts about whether the US is civilised)
>
>Incorrect. It was the politicians response to corona that messed up the
>economics. What was a common cold led to complete shut down of all markets
>+ massive political fingering of the markets. We are now seeing the result
>of this socialism.

A common cold? I know people who died from covid. I don't know anybody
who died from the common cold. Where do you get your information? Do
you watch Fox News?

On 2/26/2024 10:44 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2024-02-26 10:18 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:
>
>>> I bet if everyone had your attitude we'd still be lining in 1850s
>>> conditions as we ignore what science is doing.
>>>
>>
>> I bet we'd have more scientific break throughs and a more productive
>> society since people would be focused on solving actual problems
>> instead of wasting time with moon shots.
>
>
> A lot of our modern products were first developed in the space program.
>

Seems D wants to wallow in ignorance

What are NASA spinoffs everyday products from NASA?
Many technologies developed for space have found uses on Earth.
Sunglasses, the computer mouse, magnetic resonance imaging, smoke
detectors, quartz watches and bar codes are just a few of the 30,000
commercial applications of space technology that have entered the
consumer market since the 1950s.

https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/consumer-products-nasa-helped-invent

Mike Duffy wrote:

> On 2024-02-26, GM wrote:

>> Doesn't a "coup" involve [...] violence [...],
>> threats of such,

> "Kill Mike Pence"

Nancy Pelosi made that up, Mike...

--
GM

On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:51:49 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 18:39:36 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Hank Rogers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-02-24, heyjoe <address@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am looking forward to the 2024 Democratic National Convention in
>>>>>>> Chicago, IL. Can't wait to see the reaction when Big Money fails to
>>>>>>> support Biden for the nomination. Expect chaos will reign in the
>>>>>>> convention and the streets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frankly, I expect chaos at both conventions. I'll be surprised if there
>>>>>> aren't one or two new third-parties created between now and the
>>>>>> election. If it's Biden vs. Trump in the General, I'll be shocked.
>>>>>> We live in interesting times, and we're forced to stay tuned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think trump will stage another coup? He probably learned from the
>>>>> last one.
>>>>>
>>>> What coup? Oh, you mean regular political meetings!
>>>
>>> D's definition of a regular political meeting:
>>> <https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/new_project_-_2021-11-17t131531536_11172021>
>>>
>>
>> I don't know how old you are but put on your glasses. Donald Trump is not
>> in that photo.
>
> It's a regular political meeting of Trump zombies.
>

Not a chance! Those guys are under cover Biden zombies!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:56:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, Graham wrote:
>>
>>> It was Covid that fucked up the economies of every civilised nation**.
>>> Biden is NOT responsible for the price increases we see for just about
>>> everything.
>>> **(I sometimes have my doubts about whether the US is civilised)
>>
>> Incorrect. It was the politicians response to corona that messed up the
>> economics. What was a common cold led to complete shut down of all markets
>> + massive political fingering of the markets. We are now seeing the result
>> of this socialism.
>
> A common cold? I know people who died from covid. I don't know anybody
> who died from the common cold. Where do you get your information? Do
> you watch Fox News?
>

I know people who died from bananas and common cold. And yes, Fox is the
ultimate source of truth in case you didn't know it, so in case you don't
follow Fox I cannot take you seriously.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:

> On 2/26/2024 10:44 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2024-02-26 10:18 a.m., D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Ed P wrote:
>>
>>>> I bet if everyone had your attitude we'd still be lining in 1850s
>>>> conditions as we ignore what science is doing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I bet we'd have more scientific break throughs and a more productive
>>> society since people would be focused on solving actual problems instead
>>> of wasting time with moon shots.
>>
>>
>> A lot of our modern products were first developed in the space program.
>>
>
> Seems D wants to wallow in ignorance
>
> What are NASA spinoffs everyday products from NASA?
> Many technologies developed for space have found uses on Earth. Sunglasses,
> the computer mouse, magnetic resonance imaging, smoke detectors, quartz
> watches and bar codes are just a few of the 30,000 commercial applications of
> space technology that have entered the consumer market since the 1950s.
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/consumer-products-nasa-helped-invent

And what would the spin offs be if the program was not? Impossible to
tell. But what we can tell is that all government projects would have been
more economically and/or better done by the private sector.

The NASA project was an enormous waste of resources to achive something
which would have been achieved later at a fraction of the cost.

But this is typical socialist thinking. Just looking at the immediate
effects and ignoring all alternatives.

Back to school boys!

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 19:27:11 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 11:56:10 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, Graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> It was Covid that fucked up the economies of every civilised nation**.
>>>> Biden is NOT responsible for the price increases we see for just about
>>>> everything.
>>>> **(I sometimes have my doubts about whether the US is civilised)
>>>
>>> Incorrect. It was the politicians response to corona that messed up the
>>> economics. What was a common cold led to complete shut down of all markets
>>> + massive political fingering of the markets. We are now seeing the result
>>> of this socialism.
>>
>> A common cold? I know people who died from covid. I don't know anybody
>> who died from the common cold. Where do you get your information? Do
>> you watch Fox News?
>>
>
>I know people who died from bananas and common cold. And yes, Fox is the
>ultimate source of truth in case you didn't know it, so in case you don't
>follow Fox I cannot take you seriously.

Enjoy!

On 2024-02-26, D wrote:

> But what we can tell is that all government projects would have
> been more economically and/or better done by the private sector.

Yabbut, thanks to government demonstation of space-flight
problems, the private sector now knows that it's easier
to send robots, especially on one-way dangerous missions.

Yeah, I know, people are ready to go to Mars as soon as
the robots say it's safe. They are already practicing
in 'space-pods' months at a time with complete strangers.

On 2024-02-26, GM wrote:
> Mike Duffy wrote:
>
>> On 2024-02-26, GM wrote:
>
>>> Doesn't a "coup" involve [...] violence [...],
>>> threats of such,
>
>> "Kill Mike Pence"
>
>
> Nancy Pelosi made that up, Mike...

Dude, I saw it on TV.

On 2024-02-26 11:27 a.m., D wrote:

>>
>> A common cold? I know people who died from covid. I don't know anybody
>> who died from the common cold. Where do you get your information? Do
>> you watch Fox News?
>>
>
> I know people who died from bananas and common cold. And yes, Fox is the
> ultimate source of truth in case you didn't know it, so in case you
> don't follow Fox I cannot take you seriously.

And as you follow Fox, I can't take you seriously.
BTW it's obvious that you apply "socialism" to anything you don't like.
I suggest you do some reading on the subject.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 12:33:32 -0700, Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-02-26 11:27 a.m., D wrote:
>
>>> A common cold? I know people who died from covid. I don't know anybody
>>> who died from the common cold. Where do you get your information? Do
>>> you watch Fox News?
>>
>> I know people who died from bananas and common cold. And yes, Fox is the
>> ultimate source of truth in case you didn't know it, so in case you
>> don't follow Fox I cannot take you seriously.
>
>And as you follow Fox, I can't take you seriously.
>BTW it's obvious that you apply "socialism" to anything you don't like.
>I suggest you do some reading on the subject.

He's the Swedish Leonard. These people live in their own reality. Any
discussion is useless.