sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
margarine.

margarine was getting really bad with too much water
content so we did switch to using butter instead.

i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(

songbird

On 2024-03-29, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
> margarine.
>
> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>
> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(

A little difficult to see how they could adulterate it any further
without running afoul of the USDA definition of butter:

"Butter is made exclusively from milk or cream with or without common
salt, and with or without additional coloring matter, and containing not
less than 80 percent by weight of milkfat."

https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/butter-grades-and-standards/butter-grading-info

Are you buying grade AA butter? That's all I see in the stores; even
the store brand butter is AA.

--
Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
....
> Are you buying grade AA butter? That's all I see in the stores; even
> the store brand butter is AA.

yes.

songbird

On 3/29/2024 7:54 AM, songbird wrote:
> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
> margarine.
>
> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>
> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>
>
> songbird

I can't say I've noticed any issues with watery butter. I buy both Land
O'Lakes brand and the store brands, whichever is the best price. I did
a quick search and found this info:

https://cookindocs.com/why-is-my-butter-bringing-out-water/

This might apply to your baking situation:

"Excessive kneading or mixing of butter can incorporate air and water
into the mixture, resulting in a watery consistency."

Jill

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:

> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
> margarine.
>
> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>
> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>
>
> songbird

I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.

Do you think this is true?

D wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>
> > sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
> > out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
> > already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
> > margarine.
> >
> > margarine was getting really bad with too much water
> > content so we did switch to using butter instead.
> >
> > i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
> >
> >
> > songbird
>
> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>
> Do you think this is true?

Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
bread off.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 12:17:26 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>
>> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>> margarine.
>>
>> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>
>> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>>
>>
>> songbird
>
>I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>
>Do you think this is true?

What do you think yourself?

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>
>>> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>> margarine.
>>>
>>> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>
>>> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>>>
>>>
>>> songbird
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?
>
> Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
> bread off.
>

This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should use
non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it seems
that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch of salt or
two?

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 19:30:02 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>
>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>>
>>> Do you think this is true?
>>
>> Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
>> bread off.
>
>This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should use
>non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it seems
>that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch of salt or
>two?

A sharp brain in action!

cshenk wrote:

> D wrote:
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?

> Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
> bread off.
>
>
I'm not a baker as I've often stated, but what little bit I do bake I
always use salted butter and it's never once thrown a recipe off. I'd
not want to deal with salted and unsalted butter and storing it and
making sure I've used the correct one.

On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>
>>  sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>> margarine.
>>
>>  margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>
>>  i hope this trend doesn't continue...  :(
>>
>>
>>  songbird
>
> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>
> Do you think this is true?

Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 16:09:13 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?
>
>Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
>and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
>Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
>outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
>Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
>the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
>much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.

French cuisine is the only European top 5 cuisine. The rest are Asian.
A few pastries consumed by Dave Smith don't change that.

On 2024-03-30, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>
>>>  sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>> margarine.
>>>
>>>  margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>
>>>  i hope this trend doesn't continue...  :(
>>>
>>>
>>>  songbird
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?
>
>
> Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
> and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
> Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
> outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
> Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
> the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
> much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.

Nothing _you've_ had on this side of the ocean, anyway. There are
any number of top-class bakeries in North America, mostly in big
cities.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 30 Mar 2024 20:48:56 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-03-30, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
>> and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
>> Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
>> outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
>> Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
>> the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
>> much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.
>
>Nothing _you've_ had on this side of the ocean, anyway. There are
>any number of top-class bakeries in North America, mostly in big
>cities.

On the other hand, you've never left North America. Who knows what
you're missing out on?

On 2024-03-30 4:48 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2024-03-30, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>>
>>>>  sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>>> margarine.
>>>>
>>>>  margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>>
>>>>  i hope this trend doesn't continue...  :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  songbird
>>>
>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>>
>>> Do you think this is true?
>>
>>
>> Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
>> and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
>> Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
>> outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
>> Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
>> the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
>> much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.
>
> Nothing _you've_ had on this side of the ocean, anyway. There are
> any number of top-class bakeries in North America, mostly in big
> cities.
>

I am not discounting the possibility that they might be one or two here
and there but apparently they are few and far between and you have to
search them out. They are are easily found over there. They were in
cafes, train stations, hotel breakfast buffets. One of my outstanding
memories of Danish foods was Wienerbord. It was amazing.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 12:17:26 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>
>>> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>> margarine.
>>>
>>> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>
>>> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>>>
>>>
>>> songbird
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?
>
> What do you think yourself?
>
I don't know, what about you?

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 19:30:02 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>>>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think this is true?
>>>
>>> Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
>>> bread off.
>>
>> This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should use
>> non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it seems
>> that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch of salt or
>> two?
>
> A sharp brain in action!
>
I do need to keep you busy bruce... otherwise you would start to chew on
your furniture and bite people. You know it!

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>
>>>  sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>> margarine.
>>>
>>>  margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>
>>>  i hope this trend doesn't continue...  :(
>>>
>>>
>>>  songbird
>>
>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>
>> Do you think this is true?
>
>
> Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times and
> enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once, Sweden
> once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had outstanding
> breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German, Netherlands and
> Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over the rest of them. I
> would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as much as a French one.
> Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.
>
>
Yes Dave, it is deeply important to me that he is french.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-30 4:48 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2024-03-30, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-30 7:17 a.m., D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>>>> margarine.
>>>>>
>>>>>  margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>>>
>>>>>  i hope this trend doesn't continue...  :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  songbird
>>>>
>>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in sweden,
>>>> and he said _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think this is true?
>>>
>>>
>>> Does it matter than he is French. I have been to France several times
>>> and enjoyed great breads and pastries. I have also been to Estonia once,
>>> Sweden once and Denmark several times, and those three countries had
>>> outstanding breads and pastries. I also had great pastries in German,
>>> Netherlands and Belgium. I can't say that the French have anything over
>>> the rest of them. I would likely enjoy a Scandinavian pastry just as
>>> much as a French one. Nothing on this side of the ocean compares.
>>
>> Nothing _you've_ had on this side of the ocean, anyway. There are
>> any number of top-class bakeries in North America, mostly in big
>> cities.
>>
>
>
> I am not discounting the possibility that they might be one or two here and
> there but apparently they are few and far between and you have to search them
> out. They are are easily found over there. They were in cafes, train
> stations, hotel breakfast buffets. One of my outstanding memories of Danish
> foods was Wienerbord. It was amazing.
>

I have to agree with you here. Danish Wienerbröd are pretty good! Highly
recommended in case anyone here ever ends up in Denmark along sith
Smörrebröd (their very luxurious sandwiches with loads of stuff on them).

On 3/30/2024 3:54 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
> cshenk wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>>
>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>>>
>>> Do you think this is true?
>
>> Yes, and I do all with salted butter.  It's not enough salt to throw
>> bread off.
>>
>>
> I'm not a baker as I've often stated, but what little bit I do bake I
> always use salted butter and it's never once thrown a recipe off.  I'd
> not want to deal with salted and unsalted butter and storing it and
> making sure I've used the correct one.

Same here, Joan. Some bakers will insist on unsalted butter but I've
not had a problem with it. Heck, when I made two loaves of braided egg
bread in the 1980's to take to a pot luck at work I'm not sure the
grocery store even sold unsalted butter. The bread turned out just
fine! I do agree, never use margarine.

Jill

On 2024-03-31 4:52 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
>> I am not discounting the possibility that they might be one or two
>> here and there but apparently they are few and far between and you
>> have to search them out. They are are easily found over there. They
>> were in cafes, train stations, hotel breakfast buffets.  One of my
>> outstanding memories of Danish foods was Wienerbord. It was amazing.
>>
>
> I have to agree with you here. Danish Wienerbröd are pretty good! Highly
> recommended in case anyone here ever ends up in Denmark along sith
> Smörrebröd (their very luxurious sandwiches with loads of stuff on them).

A couple of the best lunches I have ever had were Smorsbrod. The first
was upon arrival at my hotel. Some friends had picked me up at the
airport and took me for a scenic tour and then on to my hotel in
Menstrup. I took them to lunch and asked them what would be a good
traditional Danish lunch so they ordered smoked eel smorsbrod and beer
and Akavit to go along with it.
The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There was
a nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with servings of
breaded sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.

D wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>
> > D wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
> > >
> > > > sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
> > > > out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
> > > > already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
> > > > margarine.
> > > >
> > > > margarine was getting really bad with too much water
> > > > content so we did switch to using butter instead.
> > > >
> > > > i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > songbird
> > >
> > > I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
> > > sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never
> > > margarine.
> > >
> > > Do you think this is true?
> >
> > Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
> > bread off.
> >
>
> This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should
> use non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it
> seems that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch
> of salt or two?

Salted butter has very little salt. There are some baking things I
don't really do where people say 'unsalted'. Maybe it matters but also
it may be the cooking pedant who insists things be by the recipe.
Impossible to tell since generally they refuse to try is side by side
both ways.

For bread, no difference. What you don't want is margarine of anything
'whipped/spreadable' formulas. Those are significantly off enough to
throw the bread off.

On 2024-03-31 1:19 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> D wrote:
>
>
>> This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should
>> use non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it
>> seems that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch
>> of salt or two?
>
> Salted butter has very little salt. There are some baking things I
> don't really do where people say 'unsalted'. Maybe it matters but also
> it may be the cooking pedant who insists things be by the recipe.
> Impossible to tell since generally they refuse to try is side by side
> both ways.

The professionals often say to use unsalted butter because the amount of
salt varies. IMO, if you are adding salt to the recipe the small amount
of salt in the butter is a non-issue, especially if it is something you
are salting to taste. I have been using mostly unsalted butter for years
though we often have salted on hand. I can definitely taste the salt in
the butter when I have it on bread or rolls, but not in the things I
cook with it.

ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:

> cshenk wrote:
>
> > D wrote:
> > >
> > > I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
> > > sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never
> > > margarine.
> > >
> > > Do you think this is true?
>
> > Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
> > bread off.
> >
> >
> I'm not a baker as I've often stated, but what little bit I do bake I
> always use salted butter and it's never once thrown a recipe off. I'd
> not want to deal with salted and unsalted butter and storing it and
> making sure I've used the correct one.

Same here Joan.

I'm making subs and bagettes soon. Just taking a little rest from
making more seedling trays. Planting time really soon here. By the
9th, we are clear.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-31 4:52 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am not discounting the possibility that they might be one or two here
>>> and there but apparently they are few and far between and you have to
>>> search them out. They are are easily found over there. They were in cafes,
>>> train stations, hotel breakfast buffets.  One of my outstanding memories
>>> of Danish foods was Wienerbord. It was amazing.
>>>
>>
>> I have to agree with you here. Danish Wienerbröd are pretty good! Highly
>> recommended in case anyone here ever ends up in Denmark along sith
>> Smörrebröd (their very luxurious sandwiches with loads of stuff on them).
>
>
> A couple of the best lunches I have ever had were Smorsbrod. The first was
> upon arrival at my hotel. Some friends had picked me up at the airport and
> took me for a scenic tour and then on to my hotel in Menstrup. I took them to
> lunch and asked them what would be a good traditional Danish lunch so they
> ordered smoked eel smorsbrod and beer and Akavit to go along with it.
> The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There was a
> nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with servings of breaded
> sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.

Ahh, was it perhaps Ida Davidsen? Not 100% sure of the name, but a very
famous restaurant has a name fairly similar to it.