On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> sometime recently it has become more of an issue to watch
>>>>> out for, especially if you are using it for baking and have
>>>>> already adjusted all of your recipes to using butter from
>>>>> margarine.
>>>>>
>>>>> margarine was getting really bad with too much water
>>>>> content so we did switch to using butter instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> i hope this trend doesn't continue... :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> songbird
>>>>
>>>> I read an interview with a very famous french baker who lives in
>>>> sweden, and he said always go for butter when baking, never
>>>> margarine.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think this is true?
>>>
>>> Yes, and I do all with salted butter. It's not enough salt to throw
>>> bread off.
>>>
>>
>> This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you should
>> use non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread recipes, so it
>> seems that perhaps I can use salted butter and then not add the pinch
>> of salt or two?
>
> Salted butter has very little salt. There are some baking things I
> don't really do where people say 'unsalted'. Maybe it matters but also
> it may be the cooking pedant who insists things be by the recipe.
> Impossible to tell since generally they refuse to try is side by side
> both ways.
>
> For bread, no difference. What you don't want is margarine of anything
> 'whipped/spreadable' formulas. Those are significantly off enough to
> throw the bread off.

Oh no... wouldn't think about it! When I was young, for some reason, we
used margarine, but somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight
and after that, only real butter.

D wrote:

> When I was young, for some reason, we
> used margarine, but somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight
> and after that, only real butter.

Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
butter.

On 3/31/2024 5:12 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
> D wrote:
>
>> When I was young, for some reason, we used margarine, but somewhere
>> along the way my grandfather set me straight and after that, only real
>> butter.
>
>
> Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo much
> healthier for you than butter.  And of course it was cheaper at 79¢,
> 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for butter.

Yes, it was touted as healthier and yes, it cost less than butter. When
I was growing up my mother only served butter on "holidays". That was
also the only time she used the "good china".

Jill

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:12:21 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
(ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:

>D wrote:
>
>> When I was young, for some reason, we
>> used margarine, but somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight
>> and after that, only real butter.
>
>Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
>much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
>at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
>butter.

Butter isn't very healthy because of all the saturated fat. Of course,
that's not much of a problem if you don't have a cholesterol issue.

Some margarines contain a cholesterol lowering ingredient.

If you don't use butter, you don't support the nasty dairy industry.
But if you eat meat anyway, you won't give a rat's ass about that.

And there's always oil, of course.

On 2024-03-31 4:35 p.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

>> The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There
>> was a nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with servings
>> of breaded sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.
>
> Ahh, was it perhaps Ida Davidsen? Not 100% sure of the name, but a very
> famous restaurant has a name fairly similar to it.

It was the Kommandør or something like that. I just tried to find it on
Google and Google maps but had no luck. The last time we were there was
2008 so it may have had the short life than many restaurants experience.
It's be a damn shame. We had such a great lunch there that we went
back there for dinner, which was also wonderful.

On 2024-03-31 6:09 p.m., jmcquown wrote:
> On 3/31/2024 5:12 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:

>> Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo much
>> healthier for you than butter.  And of course it was cheaper at 79¢,
>> 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for butter.
>
> Yes, it was touted as healthier and yes, it cost less than butter.  When
> I was growing up my mother only served butter on "holidays".  That was
> also the only time she used the "good china".
>

I don't recall it being touted here as being healthier but it was a heck
of a lot cheaper. My mother never liked butter but my father was a
country boy and liked his butter. Mom tried foisting margarine on us but
he vetoed that.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>> When I was young, for some reason, we used margarine, but somewhere along
>> the way my grandfather set me straight and after that, only real butter.
>
>
> Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo much
> healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper at 79¢, 89¢, or
> a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for butter.
>

It is interesting to note how often the government or scientists change
their minds about what is good and not so good. Then you can add quantity
into the mix. If you consume something up to X it is good or neutral, and
at X+1 bad. Add to that all the nr of fad diets as well.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:12:21 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net
> (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>
>>> When I was young, for some reason, we
>>> used margarine, but somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight
>>> and after that, only real butter.
>>
>> Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
>> much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
>> at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
>> butter.
>
> Butter isn't very healthy because of all the saturated fat. Of course,
> that's not much of a problem if you don't have a cholesterol issue.
>
> Some margarines contain a cholesterol lowering ingredient.
>
> If you don't use butter, you don't support the nasty dairy industry.
> But if you eat meat anyway, you won't give a rat's ass about that.

If I ever visited Vietnam I would _eat_ the rats ass!

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-31 4:35 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There was a
>>> nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with servings of breaded
>>> sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.
>>
>> Ahh, was it perhaps Ida Davidsen? Not 100% sure of the name, but a very
>> famous restaurant has a name fairly similar to it.
>
> It was the Kommandør or something like that. I just tried to find it on
> Google and Google maps but had no luck. The last time we were there was 2008
> so it may have had the short life than many restaurants experience. It's be
> a damn shame. We had such a great lunch there that we went back there for
> dinner, which was also wonderful.

What a shame. But I found it! https://idadavidsen.dk/menukort/ in case
anyone ever visits and is interested. You also have photos of some of the
creations on the web site as well.

On 2024-04-01 4:52 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-31 4:35 p.m., D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There
>>>> was a nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with
>>>> servings of breaded sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.
>>>
>>> Ahh, was it perhaps Ida Davidsen? Not 100% sure of the name, but a
>>> very famous restaurant has a name fairly similar to it.
>>
>> It was the Kommandør or something like that.  I just tried to find it
>> on Google and Google maps but had no luck. The last time we were there
>> was 2008 so it may have had the short life than many restaurants
>> experience.  It's be a damn shame. We had such a great lunch there
>> that we went back there for dinner, which was also wonderful.
>
> What a shame. But I found it! https://idadavidsen.dk/menukort/ in case
> anyone ever visits and is interested. You also have photos of some of
> the creations on the web site as well.

That looks pretty good. It's a little pricey. That special works out to
$83 Cdn, but it does include a beer, coffee and cake. I had been under
the impression that a smorsbord platter would include fish, meat and cheese.

On a couple of our trips to Denmark we had lunch buffets at train
stations. One of them was in Helsingor. It was an interesting array of
dishes, much different than anything you would see here. First of all,
the main meat dish was lamb. Then there was an assortment of herring. I
have occasionally seen pickled herring in buffets here, but at that one
there were at least a half dozen varieties of herring, including tomato
and curry.

I had been invited to meet some people in Svino for the Liberation Day
ceremonies but we had to deal with Covid restrictions and this year it
is too close to the local art festival which I am involved with. I plan
to resign from that at the end of this year's show so I will be free to
go next year.

Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-31 1:19 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> > D wrote:
> >
> >
> > > This is very interesting! Because I read in recipes that you
> > > should use non-salted butter. And I also add salt to my bread
> > > recipes, so it seems that perhaps I can use salted butter and
> > > then not add the pinch of salt or two?
> >
> > Salted butter has very little salt. There are some baking things I
> > don't really do where people say 'unsalted'. Maybe it matters but
> > also it may be the cooking pedant who insists things be by the
> > recipe. Impossible to tell since generally they refuse to try is
> > side by side both ways.
>
> The professionals often say to use unsalted butter because the amount
> of salt varies. IMO, if you are adding salt to the recipe the small
> amount of salt in the butter is a non-issue, especially if it is
> something you are salting to taste. I have been using mostly unsalted
> butter for years though we often have salted on hand. I can
> definitely taste the salt in the butter when I have it on bread or
> rolls, but not in the things I cook with it.

I don't worry about it and it's a lot easier to stock just one type.

Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-31 6:09 p.m., jmcquown wrote:
> > On 3/31/2024 5:12 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
>
> > > Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
> > > much healthier for you than butter.  And of course it was
> > > cheaper at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per
> > > pound for butter.
> >
> > Yes, it was touted as healthier and yes, it cost less than butter. 
> > When I was growing up my mother only served butter on "holidays". 
> > That was also the only time she used the "good china".
> >
>
> I don't recall it being touted here as being healthier but it was a
> heck of a lot cheaper. My mother never liked butter but my father was
> a country boy and liked his butter. Mom tried foisting margarine on
> us but he vetoed that.

Mom got only margarine because of the price. A lot of it was in tubs
so she could save things in the freezer. (lots of freezerburn).

D wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
>
> > D wrote:
> >
> > > When I was young, for some reason, we used margarine, but
> > > somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight and after
> > > that, only real butter.
> >
> >
> > Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
> > much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
> > at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
> > butter.
> >
>
> It is interesting to note how often the government or scientists
> change their minds about what is good and not so good. Then you can
> add quantity into the mix. If you consume something up to X it is
> good or neutral, and at X+1 bad. Add to that all the nr of fad diets
> as well.

Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets. Someplace in my 30's
they kicked in with a bang. The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
make you fat. No it doesn't. Over eating makes you fat.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-04-01 4:52 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-31 4:35 p.m., D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The other was a smorsbrod platter at a restaurant in Nyhaven. There was
>>>>> a nice selection of fresh breads and then a platter with servings of
>>>>> breaded sole, smoked salmon, sliced beef and cheese.
>>>>
>>>> Ahh, was it perhaps Ida Davidsen? Not 100% sure of the name, but a very
>>>> famous restaurant has a name fairly similar to it.
>>>
>>> It was the Kommandør or something like that.  I just tried to find it on
>>> Google and Google maps but had no luck. The last time we were there was
>>> 2008 so it may have had the short life than many restaurants experience. 
>>> It's be a damn shame. We had such a great lunch there that we went back
>>> there for dinner, which was also wonderful.
>>
>> What a shame. But I found it! https://idadavidsen.dk/menukort/ in case
>> anyone ever visits and is interested. You also have photos of some of the
>> creations on the web site as well.
>
>
> That looks pretty good. It's a little pricey. That special works out to $83
> Cdn, but it does include a beer, coffee and cake. I had been under the
> impression that a smorsbord platter would include fish, meat and cheese.
>
> On a couple of our trips to Denmark we had lunch buffets at train stations.
> One of them was in Helsingor. It was an interesting array of dishes, much
> different than anything you would see here. First of all, the main meat dish
> was lamb. Then there was an assortment of herring. I have occasionally seen
> pickled herring in buffets here, but at that one there were at least a half
> dozen varieties of herring, including tomato and curry.
>
> I had been invited to meet some people in Svino for the Liberation Day
> ceremonies but we had to deal with Covid restrictions and this year it is too
> close to the local art festival which I am involved with. I plan to resign
> from that at the end of this year's show so I will be free to go next year.

Ah yes... the herring! Don't know much about the danish variety but in
sweden you can find plenty of them including tomato, curry, mustard,
classic, cheese, and on and on it goes.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, cshenk wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was young, for some reason, we used margarine, but
>>>> somewhere along the way my grandfather set me straight and after
>>>> that, only real butter.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
>>> much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
>>> at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
>>> butter.
>>>
>>
>> It is interesting to note how often the government or scientists
>> change their minds about what is good and not so good. Then you can
>> add quantity into the mix. If you consume something up to X it is
>> good or neutral, and at X+1 bad. Add to that all the nr of fad diets
>> as well.
>
> Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets. Someplace in my 30's
> they kicked in with a bang. The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
> make you fat. No it doesn't. Over eating makes you fat.

I'll stick with my meat, butter and regular fat milk until the end of my
days, no matter what the scientists say. =)

Strangely enough, without knowing it, apparently I've been following
something called the 14:10 diet for a big part of my life. Don't ask me if
I benefit from it, have no idea.

On 2024-04-01 1:39 p.m., D wrote:
>
>

>> I had been invited to meet some people in Svino for the Liberation Day
>> ceremonies but we had to deal with Covid restrictions and this year it
>> is too close to the local art festival which I am involved with. I
>> plan to resign from that at the end of this year's show so I will be
>> free to go next year.
>
> Ah yes... the herring! Don't know much about the danish variety but in
> sweden you can find plenty of them including tomato, curry, mustard,
> classic, cheese, and on and on it goes.

From my limited experience I would say they are quite similar. We were
in Sweden for Midsommer and spent the week at a friend's summer house in
Stromsholme. She served about a dozen types of herring. Her sister
explained the differences and told us not to eat the one on the end. It
wasn't the really stinky stuff but apparently somewhat fermented. The
Midsommer buffet also included smoked salmon, smoked eel, sausages,
meatballs, cheeses and a few vegetables.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 14:16:22 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-04-01 1:39 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>>> I had been invited to meet some people in Svino for the Liberation Day
>>> ceremonies but we had to deal with Covid restrictions and this year it
>>> is too close to the local art festival which I am involved with. I
>>> plan to resign from that at the end of this year's show so I will be
>>> free to go next year.
>>
>> Ah yes... the herring! Don't know much about the danish variety but in
>> sweden you can find plenty of them including tomato, curry, mustard,
>> classic, cheese, and on and on it goes.
>
> From my limited experience I would say they are quite similar. We were
>in Sweden for Midsommer and spent the week at a friend's summer house in
>Stromsholme. She served about a dozen types of herring. Her sister
>explained the differences and told us not to eat the one on the end. It
>wasn't the really stinky stuff but apparently somewhat fermented. The
>Midsommer buffet also included smoked salmon, smoked eel, sausages,
>meatballs, cheeses and a few vegetables.

Apart from the rotting fish, you can find all this in many countries.
Actually, you could find the rotting fish too, but in the garbage bin.

On 2024-04-01 1:41 p.m., D wrote:
>

>> Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets.  Someplace in my 30's
>> they kicked in with a bang.  The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
>> make you fat.  No it doesn't.  Over eating makes you fat.
>
> I'll stick with my meat, butter and regular fat milk until the end of my
> days, no matter what the scientists say. =)
>
> Strangely enough, without knowing it, apparently I've been following
> something called the 14:10 diet for a big part of my life. Don't ask me
> if I benefit from it, have no idea.

My wife did the Atkins diet years ago and has stuck to a low carb diet
ever since. She eats all kinds of meat, dairy and fat. She rarely has
bread, rolls or pastries.She has lots of fruit and vegetables. She
keeps nice and trim despite eating lots of food. He typical breakfast
is a bowl of blueberries with yogurt and a little granola on top, an egg
or two and a big chunk of cheese.

On 4/1/2024 1:30 PM, cshenk wrote:
> D wrote:

>>
>> It is interesting to note how often the government or scientists
>> change their minds about what is good and not so good. Then you can
>> add quantity into the mix. If you consume something up to X it is
>> good or neutral, and at X+1 bad. Add to that all the nr of fad diets
>> as well.
>
> Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets. Someplace in my 30's
> they kicked in with a bang. The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
> make you fat. No it doesn't. Over eating makes you fat.

That is true, but some foods are healthier than others. You need some
nutritional balance.

Some recent testing had two people consuming the same number of calories
every day. One diet though, had more fiber and some of the calories
just passed through for better weight control.

Knowing that, a more common sense approach to choosing the foods you
like rather than some fad is much better. Better to grab a handful of
berries than a candy for the same calories.

On 2024-04-01 2:46 p.m., Ed P wrote:
> On 4/1/2024 1:30 PM, cshenk wrote:

>> Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets.  Someplace in my 30's
>> they kicked in with a bang.  The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
>> make you fat.  No it doesn't.  Over eating makes you fat.
>
>
> That is true, but some foods are healthier than others.  You need some
> nutritional balance.
>
> Some recent testing had two people consuming the same number of calories
> every day.  One diet though, had more fiber and some of the calories
> just passed through for better weight control.

That works for me. Being lactose intolerant and having gall bladder
issues, dairy products and fatty foods causes things to go through my
digestive system at high speed. I like to thing that the energy taken to
chew and swallow and the peristaltic action in my guts is likely to be
greater than any nutrition that could be derived from the food in that
short period.

>
> Knowing that, a more common sense approach to choosing the foods you
> like rather than some fad is much better.  Better to grab a handful of
> berries than a candy for the same calories.

After heart surgery I was on a strict diet. A lot of foods were taboo,
especially the sorts of things most people snack on. I found that 3-4
grapes made a satisfying snack.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-04-01 1:41 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>
>>> Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets.  Someplace in my 30's
>>> they kicked in with a bang.  The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
>>> make you fat.  No it doesn't.  Over eating makes you fat.
>>
>> I'll stick with my meat, butter and regular fat milk until the end of my
>> days, no matter what the scientists say. =)
>>
>> Strangely enough, without knowing it, apparently I've been following
>> something called the 14:10 diet for a big part of my life. Don't ask me if
>> I benefit from it, have no idea.
>
> My wife did the Atkins diet years ago and has stuck to a low carb diet ever
> since. She eats all kinds of meat, dairy and fat. She rarely has bread, rolls
> or pastries.She has lots of fruit and vegetables. She keeps nice and trim
> despite eating lots of food. He typical breakfast is a bowl of blueberries
> with yogurt and a little granola on top, an egg or two and a big chunk of
> cheese.

There you go! My breakfast for at least a decade if not more is either
greek yoghurt with either pomegrenades, blueberries, kiwis or plums, or
oatmeal.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 15:57:50 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-04-01 2:46 p.m., Ed P wrote:
>>
>> That is true, but some foods are healthier than others.  You need some
>> nutritional balance.
>>
>> Some recent testing had two people consuming the same number of calories
>> every day.  One diet though, had more fiber and some of the calories
>> just passed through for better weight control.
>
>That works for me. Being lactose intolerant and having gall bladder
>issues, dairy products and fatty foods causes things to go through my
>digestive system at high speed. I like to thing that the energy taken to
>chew and swallow and the peristaltic action in my guts is likely to be
>greater than any nutrition that could be derived from the food in that
>short period.

Soon Dave Smith will post an overview of how long his turds were
during the month of March, including an estimate for April.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:30:16 +0000, "cshenk"
<cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote:

>D wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
>>
>> > Here in the USA margarine was touted for y-e-a-r-s to be soooooo
>> > much healthier for you than butter. And of course it was cheaper
>> > at 79¢, 89¢, or a $1 per pound than at $2 (or less) per pound for
>> > butter.
>>
>> It is interesting to note how often the government or scientists
>> change their minds about what is good and not so good. Then you can
>> add quantity into the mix. If you consume something up to X it is
>> good or neutral, and at X+1 bad. Add to that all the nr of fad diets
>> as well.
>
>Oh don't get me started on all the fad diets. Someplace in my 30's
>they kicked in with a bang. The current ones are starch/wheat/gluten
>make you fat. No it doesn't. Over eating makes you fat.

That's very true, but many people can't stop over stuffing themselves.
And in that case, it's best if they stuff themselves with food that
doesn't make them gain weight, provided it's not unhealthy food in
other ways.

On 2024-03-30, D wrote:

> I read an interview with a very famous french
> baker who lives in sweden, and he said
> _always_ go for butter when baking, never margarine.
>
> Do you think this is true?

I cannot see why you would make up a lie like that.

On 2024-04-01 4:03 p.m., D wrote:
>
>> My wife did the Atkins diet years ago and has stuck to a low carb diet
>> ever since. She eats all kinds of meat, dairy and fat. She rarely has
>> bread, rolls or pastries.She has lots of fruit and vegetables.  She
>> keeps nice and trim despite eating lots of food.  He typical breakfast
>> is a bowl of blueberries with yogurt and a little granola on top, an
>> egg or two and a big chunk of cheese.
>
> There you go! My breakfast for at least a decade if not more is either
> greek yoghurt with either pomegrenades, blueberries, kiwis or plums, or
> oatmeal.

If my system didn't have such a hard time dealing with oatmeal I would
have it every day. I love that stuff.