On 1/10/2022 12:11 am, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 14:54:31 UTC+1, dxforth wrote:
>> On 30/09/2022 9:30 pm, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Learn reading and understanding context
>>> - otherwise you just continue to post BULLSHIT
>>
>> Salaciousness excluded, "What really happened there?" appears to boil down to:
>>
>> - Your assertion to Testra: "Hugh Aguilar basically says for years here on clf.
>> that he has basically invented the MFX processor of Testra, And the software
>> that basically runs the company TESTRA."
>> - Hugh's rebuttals: "Juergen is vague about this because he is just making this
>> stuff up."
>> - Hugh wrote MFX which Testra confirmed was good work and which they still use
>> with modification.
>> - "Hugh is very intelligent, very knowledgeable about Forth, but is not really
>> a team player."
>> - Testra belatedly withdraws statement about Hugh not taking direction and being
>> fired admitting they were mistaken.
>> - Hugh's claim he received a negative reference from Testra during an interview
>> for another job: 'achieved "nothing" and "not eligible for rehire"' - a claim
>> Hugh repeats on at least four different occasions.
>>
>> Did I miss something of importance?
>
> You just make things up as you go along as usual.
> Nothing to do with reality and facts - but that is you ...

Your statement and challenge was:

On 30/09/2022 1:07 am, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>
> It was interesting to receive Testra's direct reaction from their MD at the time.
> And definitely made the situation better.
>
> Let others judge, I just communicate the links and facts here

I did look. Testra came out of it with a heap of bother and Hugh vindicated. All
thanks to you running to a former employer. That you would repeat this stunt with
another person with the intention of creating harm is extraordinary. You asked
others to judge. Don't worry. If they haven't previously done so, they very likely
will now.

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:51:58 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
> On 1/10/2022 4:34 am, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 3:45:48 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 7:09:10 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:
> >>> On 30/09/2022 5:17 pm, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 04:20:23 UTC+1, dxforth wrote:
> >>>>> n 30/09/2022 1:07 am, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, 29 September 2022 at 15:54:45 UTC+1, Zbig wrote:
...
> > I haven't contacted anybody's employer. Sure enough, I don't believe people should do this from anonymity, lurking, hiding from authority, which is why I respect Han's openess, but I tend to be politely tolerant compared to what I've received.
> What "authority" then would that be - public opinion? That's a very fickle authority
> to be dependent upon. They're liable to crucify you.

I'm not saying Jurgen is wrong, and I wouldn't broadcast that But it can bring some pressure to conform. Maybe they will figuratively crucify you guys, so they should. Just bad, contributing nothing but trying to disrupt somebody trying to contribute, which is contributing nothing good. It's very sick. I've got enough people around trying to manipulate, stop, undermine things over the years, for their own gain and my loss. You think nothing could be happy, it's nuts, but in the end it suddenly all comes out, and the stuff people think and feel, and do, is nuts. Getting close to the 'sell you own grandmother' territory..

The legal process starts with the constitution, then the relative levels of legislation, then reason and court law, then culture and public opinion. What's been done here, violates reason, and therefore reasonable court law needs to be made about it. Even if you got a local judge to agree with it, a higher court judge can chuck it out as obsessively unreasonable. You condemned it, by saying the, court of public opinion, when that is what you are trying to do. Set yourselves up as a court of public opinion and wrongly crucify somebody. It is not sane. But, people seeing it, and reasonably saying, that it is not right, and I, and my company, do not want to be associated with that behaviour, that is within reason. People telling you to get it right and reasonable, is also within reason. Anyway, I don't have time for this nonsense.

On 1/10/2022 4:32 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:51:58 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
>> On 1/10/2022 4:34 am, Wayne morellini wrote:
> ..
>>> I haven't contacted anybody's employer. Sure enough, I don't believe people should do this from anonymity, lurking, hiding from authority, which is why I respect Han's openess, but I tend to be politely tolerant compared to what I've received.
>> What "authority" then would that be - public opinion? That's a very fickle authority
>> to be dependent upon. They're liable to crucify you.
>
> I'm not saying Jurgen is wrong, and I wouldn't broadcast that But it can bring some pressure to conform.

Let's execute a few to get the rest to conform? As if society hasn't tried that.

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 5:42:29 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
> On 1/10/2022 4:32 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:51:58 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
> >> On 1/10/2022 4:34 am, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > ..
> >>> I haven't contacted anybody's employer. Sure enough, I don't believe people should do this from anonymity, lurking, hiding from authority, which is why I respect Han's openess, but I tend to be politely tolerant compared to what I've received.
> >> What "authority" then would that be - public opinion? That's a very fickle authority
> >> to be dependent upon. They're liable to crucify you.
> >
> > I'm not saying Jurgen is wrong, and I wouldn't broadcast that But it can bring some pressure to conform.

...

>> Anyway, I don't have time for this nonsense.

> Let's execute a few to get the rest to conform? As if society hasn't tried that.

> You don't think you do wrong, and start issues? That you say intellectually unacceptable things you could try to
> pass by a Colonel or General you don't think much of, but to an expert, are just insulting, and deficient? Come
> on, get real, Jurgen is right! There is something fundamentally wrong with you guys stalking, hassling, disloyalty,
> disrupting, being rebels without a sufficient cause. Instead of leaving where you should never have been.

Without even trying to engage in any polemics with the above statement,
let me just note: how is it that until Wayne Morellini showed up, there was
a period of relative peace here — and since he got here, for the third month
there have been some embarrassing quarrels?

On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 16:46:06 UTC+1, Zbig wrote:
> > You don't think you do wrong, and start issues? That you say intellectually unacceptable things you could try to
> > pass by a Colonel or General you don't think much of, but to an expert, are just insulting, and deficient? Come
> > on, get real, Jurgen is right! There is something fundamentally wrong with you guys stalking, hassling, disloyalty,
> > disrupting, being rebels without a sufficient cause. Instead of leaving where you should never have been.
> Without even trying to engage in any polemics with the above statement,
> let me just note: how is it that until Wayne Morellini showed up, there was
> a period of relative peace here — and since he got here, for the third month
> there have been some embarrassing quarrels?

I wondered, what the statistics of this thread shows
and how big the interest of the Forth World is:

Statistics of this thread
to see who is actually interested and posts:

2022_10_01 1370 views

Number of posts:
119 Wayne
__7 Zbig
_36 Dxforth
__1 Referen
_28 Gnuarm
__2 Jan
__3 None albert
_51 the bee
__1 Paul robin
__1 Kerr mudd 1
__2 Fred
__1 Marcel
_11 juergen 11
__1 Gerry

On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 19:06:53 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 16:46:06 UTC+1, Zbig wrote:
> > > You don't think you do wrong, and start issues? That you say intellectually unacceptable things you could try to
> > > pass by a Colonel or General you don't think much of, but to an expert, are just insulting, and deficient? Come
> > > on, get real, Jurgen is right! There is something fundamentally wrong with you guys stalking, hassling, disloyalty,
> > > disrupting, being rebels without a sufficient cause. Instead of leaving where you should never have been.
> > Without even trying to engage in any polemics with the above statement,
> > let me just note: how is it that until Wayne Morellini showed up, there was
> > a period of relative peace here — and since he got here, for the third month
> > there have been some embarrassing quarrels?
> I wondered, what the statistics of this thread shows
> and how big the interest of the Forth World is:
>
> Statistics of this thread
> to see who is actually interested and posts:
>
> 2022_10_01 1370 views
>
> Number of posts:
> 119 Wayne
> __7 Zbig
> _36 Dxforth
> __1 Referen
> _28 Gnuarm
> __2 Jan
> __3 None albert
> _51 the bee
> __1 Paul robin
> __1 Kerr mudd 1
> __2 Fred
> __1 Marcel
> _11 juergen 11
> __1 Gerry

and for the fun of it sorted by amount:
119 Wayne
_51 the bee
_36 Dxforth
_28 Gnuarm

_11 juergen

__7 Zbig
__3 None albert
__2 Jan
__2 Fred
__1 Referen
__1 Paul robin
__1 Kerr mudd 1
__1 Marcel
__1 Gerry

We need to keep it up to date. More useful would be the rate of posting. How many in the last week or two...

Most of us have no time for such foolishness. Some people are obsessed with this. One person seems to be dominating the conversation.

--

Rick C.

++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 2:14:39 PM UTC-4, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 19:06:53 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 16:46:06 UTC+1, Zbig wrote:
> > > > You don't think you do wrong, and start issues? That you say intellectually unacceptable things you could try to
> > > > pass by a Colonel or General you don't think much of, but to an expert, are just insulting, and deficient? Come
> > > > on, get real, Jurgen is right! There is something fundamentally wrong with you guys stalking, hassling, disloyalty,
> > > > disrupting, being rebels without a sufficient cause. Instead of leaving where you should never have been.
> > > Without even trying to engage in any polemics with the above statement,
> > > let me just note: how is it that until Wayne Morellini showed up, there was
> > > a period of relative peace here — and since he got here, for the third month
> > > there have been some embarrassing quarrels?
> > I wondered, what the statistics of this thread shows
> > and how big the interest of the Forth World is:
> >
> > Statistics of this thread
> > to see who is actually interested and posts:
> >
> > 2022_10_01 1370 views
> >
> > Number of posts:
> > 119 Wayne
> > __7 Zbig
> > _36 Dxforth
> > __1 Referen
> > _28 Gnuarm
> > __2 Jan
> > __3 None albert
> > _51 the bee
> > __1 Paul robin
> > __1 Kerr mudd 1
> > __2 Fred
> > __1 Marcel
> > _11 juergen 11
> > __1 Gerry
> and for the fun of it sorted by amount:
> 119 Wayne
> _51 the bee
> _36 Dxforth
> _29 Gnuarm
>
> _13 juergen
>
> __7 Zbig
> __3 None albert
> __2 Jan
> __2 Fred
> __1 Referen
> __1 Paul robin
> __1 Kerr mudd 1
> __1 Marcel
> __1 Gerry

On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 23:14:47 UTC+1, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> We need to keep it up to date. More useful would be the rate of posting. How many in the last week or two...
>
> Most of us have no time for such foolishness. Some people are obsessed with this. One person seems to be dominating the conversation.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> ++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> ++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 2:14:39 PM UTC-4, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 19:06:53 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > On Saturday, 1 October 2022 at 16:46:06 UTC+1, Zbig wrote:
> > > > > You don't think you do wrong, and start issues? That you say intellectually unacceptable things you could try to
> > > > > pass by a Colonel or General you don't think much of, but to an expert, are just insulting, and deficient? Come
> > > > > on, get real, Jurgen is right! There is something fundamentally wrong with you guys stalking, hassling, disloyalty,
> > > > > disrupting, being rebels without a sufficient cause. Instead of leaving where you should never have been.
> > > > Without even trying to engage in any polemics with the above statement,
> > > > let me just note: how is it that until Wayne Morellini showed up, there was
> > > > a period of relative peace here — and since he got here, for the third month
> > > > there have been some embarrassing quarrels?
> > > I wondered, what the statistics of this thread shows
> > > and how big the interest of the Forth World is:
> > >
> > > Statistics of this thread
> > > to see who is actually interested and posts:
> > >
> > > 2022_10_01 1370 views
> > >
> > > Number of posts:
> > > 119 Wayne
> > > __7 Zbig
> > > _36 Dxforth
> > > __1 Referen
> > > _28 Gnuarm
> > > __2 Jan
> > > __3 None albert
> > > _51 the bee
> > > __1 Paul robin
> > > __1 Kerr mudd 1
> > > __2 Fred
> > > __1 Marcel
> > > _11 juergen 11
> > > __1 Gerry

> > and for the fun of it sorted by amount:
> > 119 Wayne
> > _51 the bee
> > _36 Dxforth
> > _29 Gnuarm
> >
> > _13 juergen
> >
> > __7 Zbig
> > __3 None albert
> > __2 Jan
> > __2 Fred
> > __1 Referen
> > __1 Paul robin
> > __1 Kerr mudd 1
> > __1 Marcel
> > __1 Gerry

Well, as you seem to like it - the first one to post and to to add to it,
as foolish or silly as it might be,
and you want keep it updated,
I kindly hand it over to anybody interested
then adding possibly the words per post
OR ANY RELATION TO THE FORTH LANGUAGE

On 2/10/2022 5:29 pm, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
>
> Well, as you seem to like it - the first one to post and to to add to it,
> as foolish or silly as it might be,
> and you want keep it updated,
> I kindly hand it over to anybody interested
> then adding possibly the words per post
> OR ANY RELATION TO THE FORTH LANGUAGE

Your interest in Forth is limited to what's good for you. Don't ask others
to do differently.

Jurgen Pitaske
Jul 12, 2021, 12:55:15 AM
>
> And as of today I will definitely not recommend MPE for any consulting work.
> Or as source for Forth software.
> I just have to point people to this post here.

Well good news. I can do more now, but am a year behind, and things are still variable and rocky.

Turns out it's a hyper infection by toxoplasmosis caused by low immunity from tickborn diseases and co-infections, aggravated it to kick off, from what I read, by covid. All the stuff that helps, turns out it helps toxoplasmosis. I had a meeting with somebody who had covid without realising, and that kicked off months of degradation on top all the other issues. There is something which slowly killed off a great number of people over time, after they recovered from the Spanish flu last century. At the moment, science is pointing to a continual low grade reaction to a coat of left over immune system debris producing chronic inflammation and attack on veins and organs, as the cause in post covid. I wonder if they will find toxoplasmosis involved too. After my double shot, then covid after completing the last shot period, my immune system was more up (there are like dozens and dozens of components to the immune system, with most breaking down by your mid 50's, which tanks you as you age). So, not eating gave me a temporary high while treating the tickborn part, for that time, until: I restarted eating; postcovid; had to stop heavy treatment that affected clearness of mind to handle legal stuff; liver reactions had to stop all trestments; and these other things taking off. Also found that sulphur foods and tea I've been using to help things, will deplete my low vitamin B1 further, which is used to remylienate the brain (still waiting for an actual form of B1 which more active).

The toxoplasmosis stuff is two to three times a day to keep it down, and similar to keep post covid down.

Really the wrong time to happen, with all the stuff I need to do but haven't been able to. I've been ebbing along and things got really bad when the toxoplasmosis stuff took off, which wreck organs and brain.

However, unless you have a moral compass, firmly pointed in the right, deliberately unmistaken, direction, your logic will be affected by these sorts of things. We have seen a number of these sorts of things in this forum, in the past. I tend to hold onto unmistaken expansive logic and take it slow. A lot of people don't even know what that means, so they get issues and run with them, instead of questioning what they know, think and feel, and think through them. If your mind is not really working, you will reference, rather than work, and not really see non referable work as work. Always after the tangible, not able to plan design. On the other hand, which we don't have here, it express in other people, as fantasy without proper and complete design structure. I was listening in the back ground, to a piece of interesting discussion between two researchers/philosophers (missed that part of the introductions) on the theories of everything channel. One of the researchers was defining the difference between imagination, being a progressive for planning of the future, and fantasy not being such. It was discussed how people have got into viewing fantasy on film rather than have imagination, I think (I missed a lot while getting ready). If you have no real imagination, you can not really imagine, that is figure out quickly, how something new and relatively complex can be true, except by references to what you presume you already know. This traps you in a loop, of knowing what you already know, but being unable to learn and figure out new things very well, but thoroughly convinced you know things well. The horizon is the loop (contemplate that).

It's like this, as an example. I know a guy here, who is convinced of his intelligence, that he knows stuff. He is a bit annoying about it. I could say to him "Ok. I'll test your intelligence. I'll give you a real simple question to answer. How many penguins does it take to fly a jet plane?". Now, it's not something I'm normally going ask him (or anybody for that matter) because he will get aggravated at the question, or at the answer, which is "As many penguins as it takes!'. Because he will think you are being a smart ass, not realising it's not about this answer, that the answer really is, he could say any reasonably correct answer at all, and be correct. There are multiple different levels to the answer. That given enough penguins time and attempts, it's possible for them to do something accidentally (similar to the monkeys typing on typewriters for an infinite amount of time eventually typing the works of Shakespeare by chance. Which may not happen as the randomness of the monkey is lot true randomness and likely to break down to various routines of typing with patterns of largely sub sets of keys). Realising, that to fly doesn't need include taking off or landing ot setting course of height, or anything but to momentarily take charge of flying (but, I probably wouldn't go that far to mention this). "Penguins can't fly" is not really an answer which he would probably get stuck on (it was not a question of how they can't fly, but how many that it could it take.. But if he said "Zero! Penguins can't fly", that is still an intelligent answer that answers both the amount in terms of the objection, that they can't fly). A person of one level of intelligence is going think, that's a smart answer, another at another level, is going realise that with enough penguins, another that the question is only temporarily take charge, and another, will realise, any reasonably correct answer will. The thing is, it only takes a reasonable level of real intelligence to realise the last level mentioned. It's about, thinking through things, what you think, and how you think about things.

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 4:11:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
"Ok. I'll test your intelligence. I'll give you a real simple question to answer. How many penguins does it take to fly a jet plane?".

That's easy. It's the weight of the load divided by the average lifting power of a bird. That's high school level. Fill in the variables and get the answer. I'd ask something like "There is a 2 kilometer road. The person was delayed for the first 1 km leg of the journey, so that the average speed was 15 km/h. At what speed would the second leg be driven, so that the average speed over the entire 2 km track is 30 km/h?"

Hans Bezemer

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 5:50:14 PM UTC+2, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 4:11:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> "Ok. I'll test your intelligence. I'll give you a real simple question to answer. How many penguins does it take to fly a jet plane?".
A second question I would ask is:

- I go south for 182 km;
- I take a 90 degrees turn and go east for 45 mins at 20 km/h
- I take a 180 degrees turn and go west for 26 mins at 26 km/h
- I take a 90 degrees turn and go north for another 182 km;
- I end up at the same place as where I started.

1) Where am I?
2) What is my name?

Hans Bezemer

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 5:58:08 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 5:50:14 PM UTC+2, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 4:11:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > "Ok. I'll test your intelligence. I'll give you a real simple question to answer. How many penguins does it take to fly a jet plane?".
> A second question I would ask is:
>
> - I go south for 182 km;
> - I take a 90 degrees turn and go east for 45 mins at 20 km/h
> - I take a 180 degrees turn and go west for 26 mins at 26 km/h
> - I take a 90 degrees turn and go north for another 182 km;
> - I end up at the same place as where I started.
>
> 1) Where am I?
> 2) What is my name?
>
> Hans Bezemer

Certainly not at the North pole, there are no penguins there.

-marcel

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 6:22:58 PM UTC+2, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> Certainly not at the North pole, there are no penguins there.
No - only the South pole (although there are colonies in South America and South Africa as well). But there are lots of things about penguins most people don't know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dfWzp7rYR4

Hans Bezemer

On 9/10/2022 3:22 am, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 5:58:08 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> A second question I would ask is:
>>
>> - I go south for 182 km;
>> - I take a 90 degrees turn and go east for 45 mins at 20 km/h
>> - I take a 180 degrees turn and go west for 26 mins at 26 km/h
>> - I take a 90 degrees turn and go north for another 182 km;
>> - I end up at the same place as where I started.
>>
>> 1) Where am I?
>> 2) What is my name?
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
>
> Certainly not at the North pole, there are no penguins there.

A forther on c.l.f ?

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:22:58 AM UTC+10, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
?
> >
> > Hans Bezemer
> Certainly not at the North pole, there are no penguins there.
>
> -marcel

How are they going get there :)

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 6:39:58 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> How are they going get there :)
Flying a little further. Penguin expansion.

Hans Bezemer

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:55:11 AM UTC-7, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
> > her.
> Hugh was against everybody. The entire world AFAIK. I don't think in the end anybody was
> taking him serious anymore. Hugh's post were like chirping in the woods.

I continued to monitor comp.lang.forth mostly to see if my code was getting pirated.
I am expecting Stephen Pelc to "invent" quotations that access the parent function's
local variables any time now. We have already seen Gerry Jackson mining Michael L.
Gassenenko's code and slapping his own copyright on it. This was M.L.G.'s SWITCH
statement that is like my FAST-SWITCH>, but M.L.G.'s SWITCH doesn't support large
sparse key sets like my SLOW-SWITCH> does, so Gerry Jackson won't be able to do
that without pirating my code (he can't write code of his own).

While monitoring comp.lang.forth I found it extremely creepy the way that the
comp.lang.forth nest of trolls continued to attack me with insults even theough
I was no longer on comp.lang.forth.

I stopped taking comp.lang.forth seriously because of the gross incompetence
of the comp.lang.forth nest of trolls. Elizabeth Rather, of course, never posted
any Forth code except what she copied directly out of the "Starting Forth" book.
What primarily pushed me away from comp.lang.forth was Hans Bezemer's failure
to understand the concept of Harvard Architecture. Really??? It is not complilcated!
This is gross ignorance of basic compuer-programming concepts!
Of course, all people are ignorant on most subjects. I have a mild interest in geology
but I am pretty ignorant of the subject. Hans Bezemer knows as much about
Harvard Architecture as I know about geology. The difference is that I admit that
my knowledge of geology is superficial and I don't try to educate people on the subject.
Hans Bezemer claims to be a big expert on Forth and he tries to educate the world
with his Back & Forth videos. The problem is that nobody on comp.lang.forth tells
him that he is wrong about what Harvard Architecture is. That would be politically incorrect!
This is cult behavior. So long as he continues to be part of the cult (mostly by attacking me),
then everybody in the cult carefully avoids pointing out his gross ignorance of basic
concepts such as Harvard Architecture. Elizabeth Rather was the most egregious example.
She was the founder of the ANS-Forth cult, so she could make utterly ignorant statements
about programming and none of the cult members would ever say anything, but they would
keep a straight face and act like this idiocy was great wisdom that she brought down from
Mount Sinai --- she had met Charles Moore, just like Moses had met God --- be awed!

The result of this highly public ignorance and cult behavior is that everybody in the real world
considers the Forth community to be like birds chirping in the woods --- utterly meaningless!

On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 21:33:41 UTC, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:55:11 AM UTC-7, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
> > > her.
> > Hugh was against everybody. The entire world AFAIK. I don't think in the end anybody was
> > taking him serious anymore. Hugh's post were like chirping in the woods.
>
> I continued to monitor comp.lang.forth mostly to see if my code was getting pirated.
> I am expecting Stephen Pelc to "invent" quotations that access the parent function's
> local variables any time now. We have already seen Gerry Jackson mining Michael L.
> Gassenenko's code and slapping his own copyright on it. This was M.L.G.'s SWITCH
> statement that is like my FAST-SWITCH>, but M.L.G.'s SWITCH doesn't support large
> sparse key sets like my SLOW-SWITCH> does, so Gerry Jackson won't be able to do
> that without pirating my code (he can't write code of his own).
>
> While monitoring comp.lang.forth I found it extremely creepy the way that the
> comp.lang.forth nest of trolls continued to attack me with insults even theough
> I was no longer on comp.lang.forth.
>
> I stopped taking comp.lang.forth seriously because of the gross incompetence
> of the comp.lang.forth nest of trolls. Elizabeth Rather, of course, never posted
> any Forth code except what she copied directly out of the "Starting Forth" book.
> What primarily pushed me away from comp.lang.forth was Hans Bezemer's failure
> to understand the concept of Harvard Architecture. Really??? It is not complilcated!
> This is gross ignorance of basic compuer-programming concepts!
> Of course, all people are ignorant on most subjects. I have a mild interest in geology
> but I am pretty ignorant of the subject. Hans Bezemer knows as much about
> Harvard Architecture as I know about geology. The difference is that I admit that
> my knowledge of geology is superficial and I don't try to educate people on the subject.
> Hans Bezemer claims to be a big expert on Forth and he tries to educate the world
> with his Back & Forth videos. The problem is that nobody on comp.lang.forth tells
> him that he is wrong about what Harvard Architecture is. That would be politically incorrect!
> This is cult behavior. So long as he continues to be part of the cult (mostly by attacking me),
> then everybody in the cult carefully avoids pointing out his gross ignorance of basic
> concepts such as Harvard Architecture. Elizabeth Rather was the most egregious example.
> She was the founder of the ANS-Forth cult, so she could make utterly ignorant statements
> about programming and none of the cult members would ever say anything, but they would
> keep a straight face and act like this idiocy was great wisdom that she brought down from
> Mount Sinai --- she had met Charles Moore, just like Moses had met God --- be awed!
>
> The result of this highly public ignorance and cult behavior is that everybody in the real world
> considers the Forth community to be like birds chirping in the woods --- utterly meaningless!

I thought Han's videos were good.

You should encourage people who like to educate as we need more of them. I have
learnt a few things reading the source he has made available.

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:41:50 AM UTC-7, NN wrote:
> On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 21:33:41 UTC, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What primarily pushed me away from comp.lang.forth was Hans Bezemer's failure
> > to understand the concept of Harvard Architecture. Really??? It is not complilcated!

> I thought Han's videos were good.
>
> You should encourage people who like to educate as we need more of them. I have
> learnt a few things reading the source he has made available.

What did you learn about Harvard Architecture from Hans' videos?
Explain in detail --- inquiring minds want to know!

I don't want to encourage "people who like to educate" because we have too many of them,
and none of them know anything about the subject that they are lecturing on.
This is a good example:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/y96tQf_iOSk/m/WhpmjMTeAgAJ

Hans thinks that his 4TH that runs on the 16-bit x86 is Harvard Architecture.
He says:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:15:42 AM UTC-7, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 1:07:42 AM UTC+2, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> You don't subscribe to the standard "Harvard architecture" definition. That's ok. Everyone is allowed to make their own private definitions that they use in the privacy of their own homes. But that's what 4tH has. It features several distinct segments:
> [a] The Integer Segment, that consists of words and houses variables and the stack;
> [b] The Character Segment, that consists of bytes and houses writable strings, number generator buffer, TIB and PAD;
> [c] The String Segment, that houses character constants and is both non-readable and non-writable;
> [d] The Code Segment, that houses compiled Forth words, including integer constants and is non-writable;
> [e] The Symbol Table, that contains Forth names and references - usually discarded after compilation;
> [f] The Header, which is is both non-readable and non-writable and ties it all together.

The MiniForth processor, for which I wrote the MFX assemble, simulator and Forth cross-compiler,
was Harvard Architecture. The code-memory and data-memory each had their own address bus
and data bus. This is why each opcode executed in one clock cycle. Also, the MiniForth was VLIW.
Each opcode contained up to 5 instructions, all of which executed concurrently in one clock cycle.
My assembler allowed the programmer to write his instructions as if they executed sequentially
but my assembler would rearrange them to pack them into the opcodes with a minimal number
of NOP instructions being inserted, but still guaranteeing that the program did the same thing
that it would have done if the instructions were assembled one per opcode in the same order
that they were written in the source-code. This is called: "out-of-ordering."

It is very depressing for me to tell people about MFX because nobody ever understands
what I'm talking about.
The typical resonse is: "That is trivial. GCC does all of that for the 16-bit x86 processor,
but it does it under the hood so the programmer doesn't have to bother with it."
Hans would say the same thing except substiture "4TH" for "GCC." He knows nothing about the subject.
This is an insurmountable level of dumbness!
Overcoming this much dumb would be like climbing Mount Everest and then stepping in
a fresh cow-patty on the summit when you try to plant your flag.

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:30:18 PM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 21:33:41 UTC, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
> Overcoming this much dumb would be like climbing Mount Everest and then
> stepping in a fresh cow-patty on the summit when you try to plant your flag.

That's a complicated one to parse -- you are certainly not on the Mount Everest
when that happens. But it could be a Yeti-patty, of course. In which case planting
the flag is insignificant compared to the importance of your discovery.

On 15/01/2023 11:41 pm, NN wrote:
>
> I thought Han's videos were good.

Certainly different from the usual Forth tutorial / Why you should use Forth.
Viewers never quite know what they'll be getting or where they'll be taken.
Which is its charm. Now if it could be sold on Amazon...

On 16/01/2023 3:30 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>
> It is very depressing for me to tell people about MFX because nobody ever understands
> what I'm talking about.

No doubt Moore feels the same. OTOH he doesn't give folks cause to not want to listen
to him.

On 16/01/2023 8:28 am, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 5:30:18 PM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 21:33:41 UTC, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> [..]
>> Overcoming this much dumb would be like climbing Mount Everest and then
>> stepping in a fresh cow-patty on the summit when you try to plant your flag.
>
> That's a complicated one to parse -- you are certainly not on the Mount Everest
> when that happens. But it could be a Yeti-patty, of course. In which case planting
> the flag is insignificant compared to the importance of your discovery.

You underestimate the value humans place on flags and monuments :)