It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.

Testing will be very interesting.

build

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, build wrote:
> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>
> Testing will be very interesting.
>
> build
Sounds like a classic case of making a change just to ... make a change?

Dan

On 1/22/2022 11:04 AM, Dan the Man wrote:
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, build wrote:

>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
>> tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.

> Sounds like a classic case of making a change just to ... make a
> change?
AIUI Pirelli began asking for this some time ago, as the configuration
is more relevant to development of the high-performance tires they are
making for street use.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
As for behavior, I have shocking news:
Physicists can be arrogant. - Mike Tamor

On 2022-01-22 5:21 a.m., build wrote:
> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>
> Testing will be very interesting.

So...

....why do the German touring cars use low profile tires?

....why do LeMans prototypes use low profile tires?

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:25:49 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> ...why do the German touring cars use low profile tires?
>
> ...why do LeMans prototypes use low profile tires?

You're the expert cock sucker.
Fuck off and find out yourself.
You fucking cunt.

drunk Aussie troll wrote:

> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
> tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.

How many cars do you see on the road with the same profile as an F1
car?

Your statement is pure ignorance.

> As some of you know
> the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some
> years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap. I know with the
> aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from
> the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>

They wanted to slow the cars by up to 5 seconds for the start of the
season. Those in the know reckon it will be closer to just 0.5 seconds.
Ferrari speculate that they will be faster than 2021 on some of the
high speed circuits while much slower on street tracks.

The aero changes were not supposed to be faster.

> Testing will be very interesting.

....and rain is wet.

1 out of 3; well done.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 10:23:23 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
> drunk Aussie troll wrote:
>
> > It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
> > tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> How many cars do you see on the road with the same profile as an F1
> car?
>
> Your statement is pure ignorance.
> > As some of you know
> > the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some
> > years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap. I know with the
> > aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from
> > the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
> >
> They wanted to slow the cars by up to 5 seconds for the start of the
> season. Those in the know reckon it will be closer to just 0.5 seconds.
> Ferrari speculate that they will be faster than 2021 on some of the
> high speed circuits while much slower on street tracks.
>
> The aero changes were not supposed to be faster.
> > Testing will be very interesting.
> ...and rain is wet.
>
> 1 out of 3; well done.

You seem unhinged.
When was the last time you talked to your therapist?
If build is causing you distress, put him back in your kill file.
You fucking moron.

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 5:21:34 AM UTC-8, build wrote:
> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>
> Testing will be very interesting.
>
> build

Do the new tires have softer or harder sidewalls?

On 2022-01-22 11:00 a.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 5:21:34 AM UTC-8, build wrote:
>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>>
>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>
>> build
>
>
> Do the new tires have softer or harder sidewalls?

From everything I've read to date, I'd say they're stiffer in absolute
terms than the ones on the 13" wheels, but that allows you (at least in
theory) to run lower pressures without the tire deforming to the point
where it loses grip.

Tire grip is maximized where the curve of the friction from the tread in
contact with the road (which is higher at lower pressures) and the curve
of deformation of the tires structure (which is higher at lower pressures).

Basically, if the pressure is too high, there won't be as much tread in
contact with the road as the contact patch is found by dividing the
vertical load by the pressure. But if the pressure is too low, you'll
start with a large contact patch, but the distortion of the carcass will
reduce it again.

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:21:34 PM UTC+8, build wrote:
> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.

Did the Porsche have McPherson struts? They are crap with ultra-low profile tyres.

build wrote:

> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
> tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.

AIUI the new tyres are not even "low profile".

Unless I have figured it wrongly the rear tyre is a 405/65 R18 (like
many higher profile road cars) and the front a higher AR at 305/86 R18
(very much higher profile than most road cars.

I stand to be corrected.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-01-23 5:24 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> build wrote:
>
>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
>> tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>
> AIUI the new tyres are not even "low profile".
>
> Unless I have figured it wrongly the rear tyre is a 405/65 R18 (like
> many higher profile road cars) and the front a higher AR at 305/86 R18
> (very much higher profile than most road cars.
>
> I stand to be corrected.

What fascinates me is that people could possibly believe that a wheel
size rule written decades ago could have just by happenstance produced
the acme of tire grip.

build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:

> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
> lost 3 seconds a lap.
> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
> back.
>
> Testing will be very interesting.
>
> build

As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.

--
Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
--
gemini://rtr.kalayaan.xyz

On 2022-01-27 7:02 a.m., rtr wrote:
> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
>> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>> lost 3 seconds a lap.
>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
>> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
>> back.
>>
>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>
>> build
>
> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>

Not quite.

Consumer fashion follows what works in racing and high performance cars...

....but then exaggerates.

So consumers saw the cambers being run on racing cars...

....and now we have "stanced" cars with ridiculous negative camber.

That the enthusiasts have overdone it doesn't mean that the negative
camber you see on (say) an Indycar doesn't work.

It's the same with low profile tires.

Getting the best grip out of a tire is a battle between two factors that
are in opposition to each other with respect to inflation pressure.

The nature of rubber/pavement friction is such that lower pressures mean
more grip due to a larger, lower pressure contact patch.

But lower pressures mean less overall stiffness of the tire carcass...

....which leads to the more distortion of the contact patch...

....which means a smaller contact patch...

....and less grip.

One of the ways to change the balance is to make the carcass stiffer.

Which you can do by making the sidewalls shorter... ...and (to keep the
overall diameter the same) the wheel bigger.

Can you overdo it? Of course.

But they idea that 13" is some sort of automatic "ideal"...

....no.

On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
>> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>> lost 3 seconds a lap.
>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
>> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
>> back.
>>
>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>
>> build
>
> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>

I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels, the
tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile) to address
lateral flexing issues.

geoff

On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
>>> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>>> lost 3 seconds a lap.
>>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
>>> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
>>> back.
>>>
>>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>>
>>> build
>>
>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>>
>
> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels, the
> tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile) to address
> lateral flexing issues.

I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:

Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
performance tire.

But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires for...

....they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are going
to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.

On 1/27/2022 5:30 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.

>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.

>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels,
>> the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile) to
>> address lateral flexing issues.

> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>
> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
> performance tire.
>
> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires for...
>
> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are going
> to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.

Pirelli’s Formula 1 boss Mario Isola: "We are obviously very happy as
moving to an 18-inch tire is good for our technology transfer from race
to road, because the sizes are a lot more relevant compared to the 13-inch."

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38593154/why-formula-1-18-inch-tires-expect/

Pretty much what I posted in this thread five days ago.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
As for behavior, I have shocking news:
Physicists can be arrogant. - Mike Tamor

On 2022-01-27 2:32 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 1/27/2022 5:30 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>>>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>
>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>
>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels,
>>> the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile) to
>>> address lateral flexing issues.
>
>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
>> performance tire.
>>
>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires for...
>>
>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
>> going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.
>
> Pirelli’s Formula 1 boss Mario Isola:  "We are obviously very happy as
> moving to an 18-inch tire is good for our technology transfer from race
> to road, because the sizes are a lot more relevant compared to the
> 13-inch."
>
> https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38593154/why-formula-1-18-inch-tires-expect/
>
>
> Pretty much what I posted in this thread five days ago.
>

There's no doubt in my mind that if there were no rule mandating a wheel
diameter, F1 would be using large diameters.

Would that diameter be 18"?

....

I don't know.

But given that no series that isn't limited by regulation to 13" runs
13" rims...

....I'm pretty sure it would be larger.

:-)

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 4:25:35 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Would that diameter be 18"?

> I don't know.

You talking to yourself?
Your only friend.
You fucking weirdo.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:25:35 AM UTC+11, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-01-27 2:32 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > On 1/27/2022 5:30 PM, Alan wrote:
> >> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> >>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> >>>> build writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
> >>>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> >
> >>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> >>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> >>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
> >
> >>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels,
> >>> the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile) to
> >>> address lateral flexing issues.
> >
> >> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
> >>
> >> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
> >> performance tire.
> >>
> >> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires for....
> >>
> >> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
> >> going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.
> >
> > Pirelli’s Formula 1 boss Mario Isola: "We are obviously very happy as
> > moving to an 18-inch tire is good for our technology transfer from race
> > to road, because the sizes are a lot more relevant compared to the
> > 13-inch."
> >
> > https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38593154/why-formula-1-18-inch-tires-expect/
> >
> >
> > Pretty much what I posted in this thread five days ago.
> >
> There's no doubt in my mind that if there were no rule mandating a wheel
> diameter, F1 would be using large diameters.
>
> Would that diameter be 18"?

No. They would keep the sidewall. Take away the flex of the sidewall and it breaks traction. As Pirelli have said the new tyres are 4 seconds slower ! That's Pirelli saying that, not me.

These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement. Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same. Only a fool would disagree.

I've driven on both on the same car. The low profile were a real bitch and needed a very different, very gentle, approach.

>
> ...
>
> I don't know.
>
> But given that no series that isn't limited by regulation to 13" runs
> 13" rims...
>
> ...I'm pretty sure it would be larger.

You'd be very wrong. Ask any racing engineer.

>
> :-)

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> >>build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
> > > > profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> > > > As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
> > > > tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
> > > > lost 3 seconds a lap.
> > > > I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
> > > > faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
> > > > back.
> > > >
> > > > Testing will be very interesting.
> > > >
> > > > build
> > >
> > > As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> > > switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> > > viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
> > >
> >
> > I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels,
> > the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile)
> > to address lateral flexing issues.
>
> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>
> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
> performance tire.
>

How do the profiles compare?

> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires
> for...
>
> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
> going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.

Give some examples.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

build wrote:

> As Pirelli have said the new tyres are 4
> seconds slower ! That's Pirelli saying that, not me.
>

Pirelli are not saying that.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.

As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.

> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.

Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in industrial
physics and systems engineering?

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
As for behavior, I have shocking news:
Physicists can be arrogant. - Mike Tamor

On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>>>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>>>>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
>>>>> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>>>>> lost 3 seconds a lap.
>>>>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
>>>>> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
>>>>> back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> build
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the wheels,
>>> the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie lower profile)
>>> to address lateral flexing issues.
>>
>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a high
>> performance tire.
>>
>
> How do the profiles compare?

What do you mean?

>
>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires
>> for...
>>
>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
>> going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.
>
> Give some examples.

You're joking. Seriously?

Pirelli has said precisely this.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:12:26 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> You're joking.

only one joke here