On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
>> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
>
> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
>
>> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
>
> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in industrial
> physics and systems engineering?
>

I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic number
with respect to wheel diameter.

I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims that
isn't doing so because it's a rule.

On 2022-01-28 12:12 a.m., build wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:25:35 AM UTC+11, Alan wrote:
>> On 2022-01-27 2:32 p.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 1/27/2022 5:30 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>>>> build writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower
>>>>>>> low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous
>>>>>>> fashion.
>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>>>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>>>
>>>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the
>>>>> wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie
>>>>> lower profile) to address lateral flexing issues.
>>>
>>>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as
>>>> a high performance tire.
>>>>
>>>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes
>>>> tires for...
>>>>
>>>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires
>>>> are going to be. So there's more commonality in the design
>>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Pirelli’s Formula 1 boss Mario Isola: "We are obviously very
>>> happy as moving to an 18-inch tire is good for our technology
>>> transfer from race to road, because the sizes are a lot more
>>> relevant compared to the 13-inch."
>>>
>>> https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38593154/why-formula-1-18-inch-tires-expect/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Pretty much what I posted in this thread five days ago.
>>>
>> There's no doubt in my mind that if there were no rule mandating a
>> wheel diameter, F1 would be using large diameters.
>>
>> Would that diameter be 18"?
>
> No. They would keep the sidewall. Take away the flex of the sidewall
> and it breaks traction. As Pirelli have said the new tyres are 4
> seconds slower ! That's Pirelli saying that, not me.

So why don't they use 13" rims at LeMans?

Don't they face precisely the same challenge?

Even if Pirelli is saying that (and I'd like to see the quote), we
already know that Pirelli is controlling the lap times and life times of
F1 tires by the way they are designed.

If they are saying that, why do you imagine it's an inevitable result of
the increase in wheel diameter, and not something that the FIA has asked
for?

>
> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement. Any physicist
> or engineer will tell you the same. Only a fool would disagree.
>
> I've driven on both on the same car. The low profile were a real
> bitch and needed a very different, very gentle, approach.

Yes. Low profile tires ARE less forgiving.

So too, BTW, are slicks as opposed to treaded tires.

In both cases, the low profile tire and the slick require greater
precision from the driver, because the transition from having grip to
not having grip gives less warning and is more abrupt.

That doesn't mean that slicks will be slower, right?

So why do you assume that low profile means slower?

>
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> But given that no series that isn't limited by regulation to 13"
>> runs 13" rims...
>>
>> ...I'm pretty sure it would be larger.
>
> You'd be very wrong. Ask any racing engineer.

Tell me which racing engineers you asked to form your opinion first.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:22:25 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> I find it hilarious

small things amuse small minds
> I challenge anyone

get a life asshole

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > > > On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> >>>>build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
> > > > > > profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
> > > > > > As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
> > > > > > tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
> > > > > > lost 3 seconds a lap.
> > > > > > I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
> > > > > > faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
> > > > > > back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Testing will be very interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > build
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> > > > > switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> > > > > viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the
> > > > wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie
> > > > lower profile) to address lateral flexing issues.
> > >
> > > I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
> > >
> > > Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a
> > > high performance tire.
> > >
> >
> > How do the profiles compare?
>
> What do you mean?
>

You know what a tyre profile is? Have you never bought tyres?

Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.

Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?

> >
> > > But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires
> > > for...
> > >
> > > ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
> > > going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.
> >
> > Give some examples.
>
> You're joking. Seriously?
>
> Pirelli has said precisely this.

So you can't. Nevermind then.

--
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Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> > > These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> >
> > As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
> >
> > > Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> >
> > Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
> > industrial physics and systems engineering?
> >
>
> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic number
> with respect to wheel diameter.
>
> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims
> that isn't doing so because it's a rule.

Well there's the rub.

Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?

That's where you start.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:29:01 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Tell me which racing engineers you asked to form your opinion first.

john smith
happy now creepy?

On 2022-01-28 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low
>>>>>>> profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>>>>>>> As some of you know the Porsche's went from a proper race
>>>>>>> tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>>>>>>> lost 3 seconds a lap.
>>>>>>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to be
>>>>>>> faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult to gain
>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>>>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the
>>>>> wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie
>>>>> lower profile) to address lateral flexing issues.
>>>>
>>>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of as a
>>>> high performance tire.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How do the profiles compare?
>>
>> What do you mean?
>>
>
> You know what a tyre profile is?

Yes, but you didn't say "How do the tire profiles compare?" now did you?

> Have you never bought tyres?
>
> Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.
>
> Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?

You mean "aspect ratio", right?

Well let's look.

I'll lift this text, because I can't see any point in reinventing the
wheel (see what I did there? 😎):

'The new tire sizes for F1 starting in 2022 are 305/720R18 and
405/720R18. That's the equivalent (more or less) to 305/45R18 and
405/30R18.'

And here's the first LMP1 spec I came across:

'Front tyres 31/71-18
Rear tyres 31/71-18'

<https://toyotagazooracing.com/wec/cars/2017/>

Translated, that's 310/710R18...

....or almost the same size as the F1 front tire.

>
>>>
>>>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes tires
>>>> for...
>>>>
>>>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires are
>>>> going to be. So there's more commonality in the design problem.
>>>
>>> Give some examples.
>>
>> You're joking. Seriously?
>>
>> Pirelli has said precisely this.
>
> So you can't. Nevermind then.

I can and just did.

But do you deny that Pirelli said that?

On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
>>>> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
>>>
>>> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
>>>
>>>> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
>>>
>>> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
>>> industrial physics and systems engineering?
>>>
>>
>> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic number
>> with respect to wheel diameter.
>>
>> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims
>> that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
>
> Well there's the rub.
>
> Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?

There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.

Lots have moved to a spec tire in an effort to control COST, but the
size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from when it
was a free choice.

All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of 18"...

<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>

<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>

<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>

And the tires aren't specified.

>
> That's where you start.

If it were true...

....but it isn't.

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > > > On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> > > > > These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> > > >
> > > > As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
> > > >
> > > > > Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> > > >
> > > > Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
> > > > industrial physics and systems engineering?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic
> > > number with respect to wheel diameter.
> > >
> > > I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims
> > > that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
> >
> > Well there's the rub.
> >
> > Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
>
> There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
>
> Lots have moved to a spec tire

Quite.

> in an effort to control COST, but the
> size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from when
> it was a free choice.

So, give some examples.

>
> All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of 18"...
>
>
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
>
>
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
>
>
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
>
> And the tires aren't specified.
>

So, what do they use?

> >
> > That's where you start.
>
> If it were true...
>
> ...but it isn't.

If what was true, fuckwit?

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > > > > > On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> >>>>>>build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower
> > > > > > > > low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous
> > > > > > > > fashion. As some of you know the Porsche's went from a
> > > > > > > > proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At
> > > > > > > > Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
> > > > > > > > I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to
> > > > > > > > be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult
> > > > > > > > to gain back.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Testing will be very interesting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> > > > > > > switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
> > > > > > > viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the
> > > > > > wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie
> > > > > > lower profile) to address lateral flexing issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of
> > > > > as a high performance tire.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > How do the profiles compare?
> > >
> > > What do you mean?
> > >
> >
> > You know what a tyre profile is?
>
> Yes, but you didn't say "How do the tire profiles compare?" now did
> you?
>

Lol, what is the discussion about?

Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes.

> > Have you never bought tyres?
> >
> > Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.
> >
> > Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?
>
> You mean "aspect ratio", right?
>
> Well let's look.
>
> I'll lift this text, because I can't see any point in reinventing the
> wheel (see what I did there? 😎):
>
> 'The new tire sizes for F1 starting in 2022 are 305/720R18 and
> 405/720R18. That's the equivalent (more or less) to 305/45R18 and
> 405/30R18.'
>
> And here's the first LMP1 spec I came across:
>

Not a road tyre.

"It now matches more with what their customers think of
as a high performance tire."

So what did you mean by that?

> 'Front tyres 31/71-18
> Rear tyres 31/71-18'
>
> <https://toyotagazooracing.com/wec/cars/2017/>
>
> Translated, that's 310/710R18...
>

Translated to what? garbage?

> ...or almost the same size as the F1 front tire.
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > > But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes
> > > > > tires for...
> > > > >
> > > > > ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires
> > > > > are going to be. So there's more commonality in the design
> > > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Give some examples.
> > >
> > > You're joking. Seriously?
> > >
> > > Pirelli has said precisely this.
> >
> > So you can't. Nevermind then.
>
> I can and just did.

Nope. But go ahead.

>
> But do you deny that Pirelli said that?

?

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-01-28 1:10 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
>>>>>> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
>>>>> industrial physics and systems engineering?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic
>>>> number with respect to wheel diameter.
>>>>
>>>> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims
>>>> that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
>>>
>>> Well there's the rub.
>>>
>>> Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
>>
>> There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
>>
>> Lots have moved to a spec tire
>
> Quite.
>
>> in an effort to control COST, but the
>> size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from when
>> it was a free choice.
>
> So, give some examples.
>
>>
>> All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of 18"...
>>
>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
>>
>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
>>
>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
>>
>> And the tires aren't specified.
>>
>
> So, what do they use?

I don't know.

The point is that they're not specced to any particular tire.

On 2022-01-28 1:18 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>>>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower
>>>>>>>>> low profile tyres simply to go with a ridiculous
>>>>>>>>> fashion. As some of you know the Porsche's went from a
>>>>>>>>> proper race tyre to a low-profile some years ago. At
>>>>>>>>> Philip Island we lost 3 seconds a lap.
>>>>>>>>> I know with the aero changes the cars were supposed to
>>>>>>>>> be faster but the loss from the tyres will be difficult
>>>>>>>>> to gain back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>>>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier for the
>>>>>>>> viewers to associate the pirellis to actual road tyres.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on the
>>>>>>> wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height sidewall (ie
>>>>>>> lower profile) to address lateral flexing issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think of
>>>>>> as a high performance tire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do the profiles compare?
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean?
>>>>
>>>
>>> You know what a tyre profile is?
>>
>> Yes, but you didn't say "How do the tire profiles compare?" now did
>> you?
>>
>
> Lol, what is the discussion about?
>
> Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes.
>
>>> Have you never bought tyres?
>>>
>>> Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.
>>>
>>> Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?
>>
>> You mean "aspect ratio", right?
>>
>> Well let's look.
>>
>> I'll lift this text, because I can't see any point in reinventing the
>> wheel (see what I did there? 😎):
>>
>> 'The new tire sizes for F1 starting in 2022 are 305/720R18 and
>> 405/720R18. That's the equivalent (more or less) to 305/45R18 and
>> 405/30R18.'
>>
>> And here's the first LMP1 spec I came across:
>>
>
> Not a road tyre.
>
> "It now matches more with what their customers think of
> as a high performance tire."
>
> So what did you mean by that?

"Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."

>
>> 'Front tyres 31/71-18
>> Rear tyres 31/71-18'
>>
>> <https://toyotagazooracing.com/wec/cars/2017/>
>>
>> Translated, that's 310/710R18...
>>
>
> Translated to what? garbage?

Translated to values in millimetres rather than centimetres.

"Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."

>
>> ...or almost the same size as the F1 front tire.
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes
>>>>>> tires for...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new tires
>>>>>> are going to be. So there's more commonality in the design
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Give some examples.
>>>>
>>>> You're joking. Seriously?
>>>>
>>>> Pirelli has said precisely this.
>>>
>>> So you can't. Nevermind then.
>>
>> I can and just did.
>
> Nope. But go ahead.

I just showed that Le Mans cars are using tires almost precisely the
same size as F1's front tires.

In what way is that not what you wanted?

>
>>
>> But do you deny that Pirelli said that?
>
> ?

Do you deny that Pirelli has said that F1's new tires sizes are more
relevant to the design of their other high performance tires?

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 1:10 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > > > > > On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> > > > > > > These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the
> > > > > > change.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
> > > > > > industrial physics and systems engineering?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic
> > > > > number with respect to wheel diameter.
> > > > >
> > > > > I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13"
> > > > > rims that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
> > > >
> > > > Well there's the rub.
> > > >
> > > > Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
> > >
> > > There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
> > >
> > > Lots have moved to a spec tire
> >
> > Quite.
> >
> > > in an effort to control COST, but the
> > > size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from
> > > when it was a free choice.
> >
> > So, give some examples.
> >
> > >
> > > All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of
> > > 18"...
> > >
> > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
> > >
> > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
> > >
> > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
> > >
> > > And the tires aren't specified.
> > >
> >
> > So, what do they use?
>
> I don't know.
>
> The point is that they're not specced to any particular tire.

....and you don't know who specified 18" or why? It's not as if they are
an off the shelf product. Someone has to make them.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-01-28 1:32 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 1:10 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
>>>>>>>> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the
>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in
>>>>>>> industrial physics and systems engineering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic
>>>>>> number with respect to wheel diameter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13"
>>>>>> rims that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well there's the rub.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
>>>>
>>>> There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
>>>>
>>>> Lots have moved to a spec tire
>>>
>>> Quite.
>>>
>>>> in an effort to control COST, but the
>>>> size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from
>>>> when it was a free choice.
>>>
>>> So, give some examples.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of
>>>> 18"...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> And the tires aren't specified.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So, what do they use?
>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> The point is that they're not specced to any particular tire.
>
> ...and you don't know who specified 18" or why? It's not as if they are
> an off the shelf product. Someone has to make them.

How does that effect anything?

The size is specced to a MAXIMUM, so anyone who wanted to use a smaller
size would be free to do so...

....but no one does.

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 1:18 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-28 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
> >>>>>>>>build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on
> > > > > > > > > > slower low profile tyres simply to go with a
> > > > > > > > > > ridiculous fashion. As some of you know the
> > > > > > > > > > Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a
> > > > > > > > > > low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
> > > > > > > > > > lost 3 seconds a lap. I know with the aero changes
> > > > > > > > > > the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss
> > > > > > > > > > from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Testing will be very interesting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
> > > > > > > > > switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier
> > > > > > > > > for the viewers to associate the pirellis to actual
> > > > > > > > > road tyres.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on
> > > > > > > > the wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height
> > > > > > > > sidewall (ie lower profile) to address lateral flexing
> > > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think
> > > > > > > of as a high performance tire.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do the profiles compare?
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what a tyre profile is?
> > >
> > > Yes, but you didn't say "How do the tire profiles compare?" now
> > > did you?
> > >
> >
> > Lol, what is the discussion about?
> >
> > Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes.
> >
> > > > Have you never bought tyres?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.
> > > >
> > > > Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?
> > >
> > > You mean "aspect ratio", right?
> > >
> > > Well let's look.
> > >
> > > I'll lift this text, because I can't see any point in reinventing
> > > the wheel (see what I did there? 😎):
> > >
> > > 'The new tire sizes for F1 starting in 2022 are 305/720R18 and
> > > 405/720R18. That's the equivalent (more or less) to 305/45R18 and
> > > 405/30R18.'
> > >
> > > And here's the first LMP1 spec I came across:
> > >
> >
> > Not a road tyre.
> >
> > "It now matches more with what their customers think of
> > as a high performance tire."
> >
> > So what did you mean by that?
>
> "Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."
>

So you don't know what you meant or are unable to elaborate proffering
to confirm your "fuckwit" status.

Try again. What do you mean by "what their customers think of as a high
performance tire." You had something in mind when you wrote that but it
doesn't relate well to the rest of your post, so explain "what their
customers think of as a high performance tire."

> >
> > > 'Front tyres 31/71-18
> >> Rear tyres 31/71-18'
> > >
> > > <https://toyotagazooracing.com/wec/cars/2017/>
> > >
> > > Translated, that's 310/710R18...
> > >
> >
> > Translated to what? garbage?
>
> Translated to values in millimetres rather than centimetres.
>
> "Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."
>

We are talking tyre profile and you have yet to provide any comparison
of profile.

Who is being the fuckwit?

> >
> > > ...or almost the same size as the F1 front tire.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes
> > > > > > > tires for...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new
> > > > > > > tires are going to be. So there's more commonality in the
> > > > > > > design problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Give some examples.
> > > > >
> > > > > You're joking. Seriously?
> > > > >
> > > > > Pirelli has said precisely this.
> > > >
> > > > So you can't. Nevermind then.
> > >
> > > I can and just did.
> >
> > Nope. But go ahead.
>
> I just showed that Le Mans cars are using tires almost precisely the
> same size as F1's front tires.
>
> In what way is that not what you wanted?
>
> >
> > >
> > > But do you deny that Pirelli said that?
> >
> > ?
>
> Do you deny that Pirelli has said that F1's new tires sizes are more
> relevant to the design of their other high performance tires?

Why would I, were you lying, again?

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 1:32 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-01-28 1:10 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> > > > > > > > > These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the
> > > > > > > > change.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30
> > > > > > > > years in industrial physics and systems engineering?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some
> > > > > > > magic number with respect to wheel diameter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses
> > > > > > > 13" rims that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well there's the rub.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
> > > > >
> > > > > There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lots have moved to a spec tire
> > > >
> > > > Quite.
> > > >
> > > > > in an effort to control COST, but the
> > > > > size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from
> > > > > when it was a free choice.
> > > >
> > > > So, give some examples.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of
> > > > > 18"...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
<https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
> > > > >
> > > > > And the tires aren't specified.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, what do they use?
> > >
> > > I don't know.
> > >
> > > The point is that they're not specced to any particular tire.
> >
> > ...and you don't know who specified 18" or why? It's not as if they
> > are an off the shelf product. Someone has to make them.
>
> How does that effect anything?
>

If they tyre is not available they can't use it, can they.

> The size is specced to a MAXIMUM, so anyone who wanted to use a
> smaller size would be free to do so...
>
> ...but no one does.

Say a team wanted to use a smaller tyre where would they get them?

Who actually specifies the tyre?

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2022-01-28 1:18 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Do you deny that Pirelli has said that F1's new tires sizes are more
> relevant to the design of their other high performance tires?

I hadn't considered that you might be fabricating but now that you
suggest it perhaps you should provide a cite as I don't recall reading
of them saying that.

I am pretty sure I have only read about claimed relevancy to road tyres.

--
Bozo bin
Felicity
George R
Irving S
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 2022-01-28 1:49 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 1:18 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-28 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-01-28 2:13 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 2:23 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 4:02 am, rtr wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on
>>>>>>>>>>> slower low profile tyres simply to go with a
>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous fashion. As some of you know the
>>>>>>>>>>> Porsche's went from a proper race tyre to a
>>>>>>>>>>> low-profile some years ago. At Philip Island we
>>>>>>>>>>> lost 3 seconds a lap. I know with the aero changes
>>>>>>>>>>> the cars were supposed to be faster but the loss
>>>>>>>>>>> from the tyres will be difficult to gain back.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Testing will be very interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as I know, one of the main reasons why they're
>>>>>>>>>> switching to 18-inch wheels is so that it's easier
>>>>>>>>>> for the viewers to associate the pirellis to actual
>>>>>>>>>> road tyres.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought is was to enable decent sized tyres to fit on
>>>>>>>>> the wheels, the tyres now having a reduced-height
>>>>>>>>> sidewall (ie lower profile) to address lateral flexing
>>>>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think Pirelli wanted this for a couple of reasons:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes. It now matches more with what their customers think
>>>>>>>> of as a high performance tire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do the profiles compare?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You know what a tyre profile is?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but you didn't say "How do the tire profiles compare?" now
>>>> did you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lol, what is the discussion about?
>>>
>>> Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes.
>>>
>>>>> Have you never bought tyres?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's different in Canada. Let me check. No, it's the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me try again. How do the ratio's compare? is that easier?
>>>>
>>>> You mean "aspect ratio", right?
>>>>
>>>> Well let's look.
>>>>
>>>> I'll lift this text, because I can't see any point in reinventing
>>>> the wheel (see what I did there? 😎):
>>>>
>>>> 'The new tire sizes for F1 starting in 2022 are 305/720R18 and
>>>> 405/720R18. That's the equivalent (more or less) to 305/45R18 and
>>>> 405/30R18.'
>>>>
>>>> And here's the first LMP1 spec I came across:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not a road tyre.
>>>
>>> "It now matches more with what their customers think of
>>> as a high performance tire."
>>>
>>> So what did you mean by that?
>>
>> "Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."
>>
>
> So you don't know what you meant or are unable to elaborate proffering
> to confirm your "fuckwit" status.
>
> Try again. What do you mean by "what their customers think of as a high
> performance tire." You had something in mind when you wrote that but it
> doesn't relate well to the rest of your post, so explain "what their
> customers think of as a high performance tire."
>
>>>
>>>> 'Front tyres 31/71-18
>>>> Rear tyres 31/71-18'
>>>>
>>>> <https://toyotagazooracing.com/wec/cars/2017/>
>>>>
>>>> Translated, that's 310/710R18...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Translated to what? garbage?
>>
>> Translated to values in millimetres rather than centimetres.
>>
>> "Stop being a fuckwit for two minutes."
>>
>
> We are talking tyre profile and you have yet to provide any comparison
> of profile.
>
> Who is being the fuckwit?

Oh... ...you're not knowledgeable enough to realize that:

305/720R18

Gives you the exact same information as:

305/43R18

That is the F1 front tire re-written as section width, aspect ratio and
wheel diameter instead of the more common racing usage of section width,
overall diameter and wheel diameter.

The numbers for the Toyota LeMans car become

310/41R18

So the two tires are very nearly the same "profile".

So the fuckwit remains you.

>
>>>
>>>> ...or almost the same size as the F1 front tire.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But also, all the other high-end series that Pirelli makes
>>>>>>>> tires for...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...they use tires that are much more like what F1's new
>>>>>>>> tires are going to be. So there's more commonality in the
>>>>>>>> design problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Give some examples.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're joking. Seriously?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pirelli has said precisely this.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you can't. Nevermind then.
>>>>
>>>> I can and just did.
>>>
>>> Nope. But go ahead.
>>
>> I just showed that Le Mans cars are using tires almost precisely the
>> same size as F1's front tires.
>>
>> In what way is that not what you wanted?

No answer.

Got it.

>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But do you deny that Pirelli said that?
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>> Do you deny that Pirelli has said that F1's new tires sizes are more
>> relevant to the design of their other high performance tires?
>
> Why would I, were you lying, again?

I notice that's not actually an answer.

On 2022-01-28 1:51 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-28 1:32 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-01-28 1:10 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-01-28 11:41 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the
>>>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30
>>>>>>>>> years in industrial physics and systems engineering?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some
>>>>>>>> magic number with respect to wheel diameter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses
>>>>>>>> 13" rims that isn't doing so because it's a rule.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well there's the rub.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which road racing classes do not specify tyres?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are lots of classes that don't specify tires.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots have moved to a spec tire
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite.
>>>>>
>>>>>> in an effort to control COST, but the
>>>>>> size of the wheels and tires that are used hasn't changed from
>>>>>> when it was a free choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, give some examples.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the top LeMans classes specify a MAXIMUM wheel diameter of
>>>>>> 18"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-hybrid.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p1-non-hybrid.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> <https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/pdf/courses/2018/24-heures-du-mans/regulations/2018-technical-regulations-lm-p2-homologated-in-2017.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the tires aren't specified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what do they use?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that they're not specced to any particular tire.
>>>
>>> ...and you don't know who specified 18" or why? It's not as if they
>>> are an off the shelf product. Someone has to make them.
>>
>> How does that effect anything?
>>
>
> If they tyre is not available they can't use it, can they.

The tire manufacturers will build whatever you'll pay for.

>
>> The size is specced to a MAXIMUM, so anyone who wanted to use a
>> smaller size would be free to do so...
>>
>> ...but no one does.
>
> Say a team wanted to use a smaller tyre where would they get them?
>
> Who actually specifies the tyre?

The designer.

Why are you arguing this, fuckwit?

The fact of the matter is that racing tires have migrated from narrow,
high aspect ratio, to wide and very low aspect ratio.

F1 only kept using 13" wheels because the rules prevented them from
going bigger.

On 2022-01-23 5:24 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> build wrote:
>
>> It's getting ridiculous when the cars are put on slower low profile
>> tyres simply to go with a ridiculous fashion.
>
> AIUI the new tyres are not even "low profile".
>
> Unless I have figured it wrongly the rear tyre is a 405/65 R18 (like
> many higher profile road cars) and the front a higher AR at 305/86 R18
> (very much higher profile than most road cars.
>
> I stand to be corrected.
>
>
>

You have figured it VERY wrongly.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 3:01:40 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Why are you arguing this, fuckwit?

its all you have in your pathetic existence

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 3:04:48 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> You have figured it VERY wrongly.

shove your all caps up your rotten pussy
you fucking queer

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 3:48:48 AM UTC+11, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> > These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
> > Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in industrial
> physics and systems engineering?
> --
> Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
> As for behavior, I have shocking news:
> Physicists can be arrogant. - Mike Tamor

Then you *should* be able to work it out. It's not difficult.

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 6:22:25 AM UTC+11, Alan wrote:
> On 2022-01-28 8:48 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
> > On 1/28/2022 3:12 AM, build wrote:
> >> These tyres are nothing more than a fashion statement.
> >
> > As I've been pointing out that's not the reason for the change.
> >
> >> Any physicist or engineer will tell you the same.
> >
> > Did I mention my three degrees in physics, or my 30 years in industrial
> > physics and systems engineering?
> >
> I find it hilarious that people believe that 13" is some magic number
> with respect to wheel diameter.
>
> I challenge anyone to show a road racing class that uses 13" rims that
> isn't doing so because it's a rule.

Who said 13" was a *magic number* ?
I can only see you saying that.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 6:26:54 PM UTC-7, build wrote:

> Who said 13" was a *magic number* ?
> I can only see you saying that.

yup, the guy is fucking clown