1986

ESP-ALG
Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto

1986

ESP-ALG
Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy

Juan B escreveu:
> 1986
>
> ESP-ALG
> Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy

So they were rotating the reserve keepers. Brasil did that too in 1986, as well as Belgium in 1982.

Btw, cool thread indeed. Thanks to all of its contributors. I too hope this can find its way into rsssf
or Wikipedia :-)

--
Lléo

El martes, 24 de agosto de 2021 a las 23:03:06 UTC+2, Lléo escribió:
> Juan B escreveu:
> > 1986
> >
> > ESP-ALG
> > Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy
> So they were rotating the reserve keepers. Brasil did that too in 1986, as well as Belgium in 1982.
>
> Btw, cool thread indeed. Thanks to all of its contributors. I too hope this can find its way into rsssf
> or Wikipedia :-)
>
>
> --
> Lléo

Hi, team

Yes, it seems so.

Finally it was possible to find the list of 16 players selected by Miguel Muñoz in this match, thanks to 'La Voz de Galicia' (online library edition). In one article, it is explained how the day before the match against Algeria, Muñoz gathered only the 16 selected players to watch videos about the opponent. The article says that Carrasco, Urruti, Setién, Rincón, Gordillo (injured) were not invited to come in.

In those years, media and National Teams were sharing the same flights, hotels, etc. so the journalists got the fresh news in first term.

Despite all the polemic around the team, Spain was kind of close to reach the semifinals (beaten by Belgium in penaltys). Zubizarreta has never been good at saving them. Ironically, Urruti, fantastic at saving penalty kicks, was on the bench in that game. For instance, one month before starting the World Cup, Urruti saved 2 penalty kicks for FC Barcelona in the CL final against Steaua Bucuresti.

I wonder what it could have happened if Muñoz put Urruti in the field for the penalty kicks (as Van Gaal did with Krul in WC 2014 against Costa Rica). We will never know :) :)

On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 17:21:35 UTC+1, Juan B wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Remarkable work.
>
> I need only:
>
> 1974
> Yugoslavia v Zaire
> (The substitutes for Zaire)
>
> Thank you so much

Juan

Zaire subs were

7-Tshnabu
12-Ndimbi
14-Maku
15-Kibonge
18-Mavuba

Good work on the Spain subs against Algeria, and some interesting background to it as well.

Regards

Steve

Some more to report. Squad numbers in brackets as usual.

1974
East Germany v West Germany
EGR: Lowe [8], Ducke [9], Streich [11], Hamann [17], Blochwitz [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Netzer [10], Bonhof [16], Holzenbein [17], Nigbur [21]

Argentina v East Germany
ARG: Balbuena [4], Glaria [9], Perfumo [14], Squeo [17], Santoro [21]
Still trying to locate East Germany subs

Poland v West Germany
POL: Kalinowski [3], Gut [5], Cmikiewicz [11], Kapka [20], Krniecik [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Cullmann [8], Heynckes [11], Flohe [15], Nigbur [21]

El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 6:52:02 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Some more to report. Squad numbers in brackets as usual.
>
> 1974
> East Germany v West Germany
> EGR: Lowe [8], Ducke [9], Streich [11], Hamann [17], Blochwitz [21]
> WGR: Hottges [6], Netzer [10], Bonhof [16], Holzenbein [17], Nigbur [21]
>
> Argentina v East Germany
> ARG: Balbuena [4], Glaria [9], Perfumo [14], Squeo [17], Santoro [21]
> Still trying to locate East Germany subs
>
> Poland v West Germany
> POL: Kalinowski [3], Gut [5], Cmikiewicz [11], Kapka [20], Krniecik [21]
> WGR: Hottges [6], Cullmann [8], Heynckes [11], Flohe [15], Nigbur [21]

Steve,

Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?

On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 15:22:38 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?

Laura

The current list of which team's substitutes we require is:

1970 (4 matches)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia

1974 (15 matches)
Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only); Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)

SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)

1978 (4 matches)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)

SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)

1986 (2 matches)
Group D: Algeria v Spain (Algeria only) - with thanks to Juan B for confirming the 16 man squad for Spain in this match
Group F: Morocco v Poland

So just 25 matches over 4 editions still to find, and in 10 of these matches we know the substitutes for one of the teams. Considering that I started this thread looking for the information for 81 matches in total, I think we can all be proud of a fantastic job so far.

Naturally, my thanks to every single one of you who have contributed something to this project, no matter how small, but special thanks must go to Laura and her husband. Hopefully we will find the missing names to complete this sooner rather than later so we can then have a FULL history of the World Cup.

Regards

Steve

El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 12:02:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 15:22:38 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?
> Laura
>
> The current list of which team's substitutes we require is:
>
> 1970 (4 matches)
> Group One: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium
> Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
> Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
> 1974 (15 matches)
> Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
> Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only); Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia
> Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
> Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
>
> SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
> SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
>
> 1978 (4 matches)
> Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
> Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
> SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
> 1986 (2 matches)
> Group D: Algeria v Spain (Algeria only) - with thanks to Juan B for confirming the 16 man squad for Spain in this match
> Group F: Morocco v Poland
> So just 25 matches over 4 editions still to find, and in 10 of these matches we know the substitutes for one of the teams. Considering that I started this thread looking for the information for 81 matches in total, I think we can all be proud of a fantastic job so far.
>
> Naturally, my thanks to every single one of you who have contributed something to this project, no matter how small, but special thanks must go to Laura and her husband. Hopefully we will find the missing names to complete this sooner rather than later so we can then have a FULL history of the World Cup.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve

Steve,

I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?

On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 19:42:10 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?

Laura

No problem

Peru v Morocco
PER: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
MAR: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]

Morocco only selected 19 players in their squad for 1970.

El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:00:12 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 19:42:10 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?
> Laura
>
> No problem
>
> Peru v Morocco
> PER: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
> MAR: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]
>
> Morocco only selected 19 players in their squad for 1970.

Found one more for 1974:

YUG SWE
Petkovic I
Peruzovic
Vladic
Karasi
Meskovic

El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 19:51:11 UTC-6, Laura Camacho escribió:
> El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:00:12 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> > On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 19:42:10 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?
> > Laura
> >
> > No problem
> >
> > Peru v Morocco
> > PER: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
> > MAR: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]
> >
> > Morocco only selected 19 players in their squad for 1970.
> Found one more for 1974:
>
> YUG SWE
> Petkovic I
> Peruzovic
> Vladic
> Karasi
> Meskovic

Team,

I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper. I have reviewed this last one for 1970 but there isn't any more additional info we can get from there. However, their digital archive only goes till 1972 and then jumps to 1997. Does anyone have a contact in Italy?

There is another newspaper called Corriere della Sera. This might also be a good option if the former does not work. However, we would need a contact in Italy.

El jueves, 26 de agosto de 2021 a las 20:40:19 UTC-6, Laura Camacho escribió:
> El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 19:51:11 UTC-6, Laura Camacho escribió:
> > El miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:00:12 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> > > On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 19:42:10 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?
> > > Laura
> > >
> > > No problem
> > >
> > > Peru v Morocco
> > > PER: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
> > > MAR: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]
> > >
> > > Morocco only selected 19 players in their squad for 1970.
> > Found one more for 1974:
> >
> > YUG SWE
> > Petkovic I
> > Peruzovic
> > Vladic
> > Karasi
> > Meskovic
> Team,
>
> I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data.. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper. I have reviewed this last one for 1970 but there isn't any more additional info we can get from there. However, their digital archive only goes till 1972 and then jumps to 1997. Does anyone have a contact in Italy?
>
> There is another newspaper called Corriere della Sera. This might also be a good option if the former does not work. However, we would need a contact in Italy.

I forgot to mention that English and Scottish newspapers seem to have good info but I am yet to find a good archive.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 10:40:19 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
>
> I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data.. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.

How about the Gazzetta dello Sport? But I don't know how far back their digital archive goes.

El viernes, 27 de agosto de 2021 a las 8:43:57 UTC-6, Futbolmetrix escribió:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 10:40:19 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> >
> > I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.
> How about the Gazzetta dello Sport? But I don't know how far back their digital archive goes.

That one goes till 1972 and jumps to 1997. There is a 25 year gap.

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 11:05:38 AM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> El viernes, 27 de agosto de 2021 a las 8:43:57 UTC-6, Futbolmetrix escribió:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 10:40:19 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.
> > How about the Gazzetta dello Sport? But I don't know how far back their digital archive goes.
> That one goes till 1972 and jumps to 1997. There is a 25 year gap.

Gazzetta dello Sport and Corriere dello Sport are two different newspapers. Were you talking about Gazzetta (the pink one, based in Milano), or Corriere (based in Rome)?

El viernes, 27 de agosto de 2021 a las 10:42:34 UTC-6, Futbolmetrix escribió:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 11:05:38 AM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > El viernes, 27 de agosto de 2021 a las 8:43:57 UTC-6, Futbolmetrix escribió:
> > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 10:40:19 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.
> > > How about the Gazzetta dello Sport? But I don't know how far back their digital archive goes.
> > That one goes till 1972 and jumps to 1997. There is a 25 year gap.
> Gazzetta dello Sport and Corriere dello Sport are two different newspapers. Were you talking about Gazzetta (the pink one, based in Milano), or Corriere (based in Rome)?

Both. Dello Sport has a gap of 25 years. The other one has a cumbersone filtering system.

On Friday, 27 August 2021 at 14:02:12 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> I forgot to mention that English and Scottish newspapers seem to have good info but I am yet to find a good archive.

Laura

I've searched several British newspaper archives with no success on the outstanding matches, except I can confirm the Scotland substitutes against Yugoslavia in 1974

1974: Scotland v Yugoslavia
SCO: Blackley [6], Johnstone [7], Allan [12], Cormack [15], Hutchison [18]

Archives searched:
The Times
The Guardian
British Newspaper Archive

Regards

Steve

El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> On Friday, 27 August 2021 at 14:02:12 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > I forgot to mention that English and Scottish newspapers seem to have good info but I am yet to find a good archive.
> Laura
>
> I've searched several British newspaper archives with no success on the outstanding matches, except I can confirm the Scotland substitutes against Yugoslavia in 1974
>
> 1974: Scotland v Yugoslavia
> SCO: Blackley [6], Johnstone [7], Allan [12], Cormack [15], Hutchison [18]
> Archives searched:
> The Times
> The Guardian
> British Newspaper Archive
>
> Regards
>
> Steve

Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?

On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 22:50:02 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?

Laura

The 1986 details I found came from an Argentinian magazine called 'Solo Futbol' but they left out the unused subs for the Algeria v Spain and Morocco v Poland matches. I've yet to find any archives of this magazine prior to 1986.

I did think that the English magazine 'World Soccer' might have provided the information (I know they did not for 1970), but I can't find any kind of online archive. My investigations so far would suggest not, unfortunately.

Regards

Steve

El martes, 31 de agosto de 2021 a las 2:26:49 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 22:50:02 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> > Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
> Laura
>
> The 1986 details I found came from an Argentinian magazine called 'Solo Futbol' but they left out the unused subs for the Algeria v Spain and Morocco v Poland matches. I've yet to find any archives of this magazine prior to 1986.
>
> I did think that the English magazine 'World Soccer' might have provided the information (I know they did not for 1970), but I can't find any kind of online archive. My investigations so far would suggest not, unfortunately..
>
> Regards
>
> Steve

Steve,

There is a top-class Argentinian magazine called El Gráfico. It included the reserves for the 1986 matches. However, I have been unable to find the specific issues for both of the remaining games. I am still looking for a copy of these two magazines.

El martes, 31 de agosto de 2021 a las 8:14:25 UTC-6, Laura Camacho escribió:
> El martes, 31 de agosto de 2021 a las 2:26:49 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> > On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 22:50:02 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> > > El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> > > Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
> > Laura
> >
> > The 1986 details I found came from an Argentinian magazine called 'Solo Futbol' but they left out the unused subs for the Algeria v Spain and Morocco v Poland matches. I've yet to find any archives of this magazine prior to 1986.
> >
> > I did think that the English magazine 'World Soccer' might have provided the information (I know they did not for 1970), but I can't find any kind of online archive. My investigations so far would suggest not, unfortunately.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Steve
> Steve,
>
> There is a top-class Argentinian magazine called El Gráfico. It included the reserves for the 1986 matches. However, I have been unable to find the specific issues for both of the remaining games. I am still looking for a copy of these two magazines.

Team,

A contact of mine in Argentina was able to provide for the last two games we are still missing for 1986:

ALG ESP
Menad
Bensaoula
Khalidi
Chaib
Hadi
MAR POL
Oudani Przybys
Amanallah Tarasiewicz
Khairi Urban
Soulaymani Kazimierski
Mouddani Zgutczynski

Now, I know for a fact that this magazine, for 1974 and 1978, did not have the reserves. However, I do not know if it did for 1970. I asked this contact to find this out for me.

On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 22:51:05 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> El martes, 31 de agosto de 2021 a las 8:14:25 UTC-6, Laura Camacho escribió:
> Team,
>
> A contact of mine in Argentina was able to provide for the last two games we are still missing for 1986:
>
> ALG ESP
> Menad
> Bensaoula
> Khalidi
> Chaib
> Hadi
>
> MAR POL
> Oudani Przybys
> Amanallah Tarasiewicz
> Khairi Urban
> Soulaymani Kazimierski
> Mouddani Zgutczynski
>
> Now, I know for a fact that this magazine, for 1974 and 1978, did not have the reserves. However, I do not know if it did for 1970. I asked this contact to find this out for me.

Laura

As always a big thank you for finding this info (and a thank you to your very helpful contacts). That's 1986 done so we are left with 22 matches over 3 editions of the World Cup, and for 10 of these matches we know the unused subs for one of the teams - the majority of which are for the 1974 World Cup in Germany.

Here's the updated list:

1970 (4 matches inc 1 partial match)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia

1974 (14 matches inc 7 partial matches)
Group One: East Germany v Australia, Australia v Chile
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only), Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only), Scotland v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay, Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)

SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany, Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only), Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany

1978 (4 matches inc 2 partial matches)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico, West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)

SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)

Regards

Steve

Hi team

I'd like to thank you all for your amazing work.

In my case, I got some information from Spanish newspapers. Not very productive, to be honest. :/

I am trying to contribute as much as I can. Working in this project for a long time ago, not easy to get the non-used substitutes at any specific match. You all know what I am talking about.

My question: how are you doing with those matches from WC USA 94 to more recent ones? I think that all reserves are eligible to play at any match except those that are suspended / injured.

ROM: Ion Vlădoiu was sent off in the match SWI-ROM and suspended for 3 matches. Unfortunately, I don't find any source or any official information in the following matches that is not included him on the bench. It happens the same with Maradona after the match against Greece, etc.

How are you doing with this cases? Did you find any official resource or any newspaper which shows exactly who was in the bench at every single WC match?

Thanks in advance

On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 18:15:37 UTC+1, Juan B wrote:
> Hi team
>
> I'd like to thank you all for your amazing work.
>
> In my case, I got some information from Spanish newspapers. Not very productive, to be honest. :/
>
> I am trying to contribute as much as I can. Working in this project for a long time ago, not easy to get the non-used substitutes at any specific match. You all know what I am talking about.
>
> My question: how are you doing with those matches from WC USA 94 to more recent ones? I think that all reserves are eligible to play at any match except those that are suspended / injured.
>
> ROM: Ion Vlădoiu was sent off in the match SWI-ROM and suspended for 3 matches. Unfortunately, I don't find any source or any official information in the following matches that is not included him on the bench. It happens the same with Maradona after the match against Greece, etc.
>
> How are you doing with this cases? Did you find any official resource or any newspaper which shows exactly who was in the bench at every single WC match?
>
> Thanks in advance
Juan

I don't think any newspapers or magazines would have printed that kind of information (waste of column inches probably).

The best information I can find is from the website https://millingsteins.com/ which has this kind of information in each match (for example, Leonardo [BRA] being banned for the remainder of the World Cup after being sent off against USA in the Round of 16 - he actually received a 4 match international ban and Effenberg [GER] being sent home after gesturing to the crowd when being substituted in the group match against South Korea and thus missing the knockout games against Belgium and Bulgaria)

Regards

Steve