On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 6:00 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Tommy, before you pass, you need to write a book or describe to an author what it is like living with your mental capacity. Describe how your brain operates. Then sell this book. And make a movie too. I am positive it would go down as one of the greatest, most infamous horror movies in all time. It would rival Freddy the masked killer movie. And rival Texas chainsaw murderer.
> That really is a brilliant idea! And hey, maybe Jute could help!
>
> Just think, Tom, you'd finally have a chance at the fame you deserve!
>
> (And we'd be free of the two top trolls for a while.)

Frank, this is another example of what your mind operates like. You think that I'm trying to impress you when I couldn't care less. I was nothing more than a worker. You're the one that thinks that your stupid opinions should somehow have value because you taught mechanical engineering when you say things so stupid people are laughing up their sleeve.

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:37:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> Tom, if you don't know any women who can outride you any day of the
> week, you need to meet more interesting women.
>
> Hell, one woman I know very well and have ridden with extensively
> recently _ran_ 100 miles, solo. I have no doubt she could outride me if
> she chose to.
>
> Although I'll add, we haven't seen any clues that any women at all
> currently associate with you.

Frank, I'm getting really tired of you inventing what I said and what I meant. What in hell does it matter if a woman can ride faster than me you moron?

Annemiek Van Vleuten's average speed when she won the elite women's TT world championship in 2017: 40.025kph over 21.1km
Tom Dumoulin's average speed when he won the men's TT world championship in 2017: 41.626kph over 31km

By all means tell me why there is a 1.5 kph speed difference in the world championships with a 50% longer TT for the men?

The mental problems of you communists are sickening.

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:49:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 6:15 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Frank, every single country in the world with mixed cultures has violence issues. Most much worse that then US.
> Tom, you need to look up a place called Canada. Read and learn - or at
> least, attempt to. (But get help with your reading comprehension.)

Tell me you mindless ignorant fool - how do you suppose Louisiana has so many French speaking people there?

On 2/15/2022 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:29:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/14/2022 10:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:59:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/13/2022 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:04:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've pointed out repeatedly, the AR platform has several features
>>>>>> that are optimized for combat situations. Compared to typical hunting
>>>>>> rifles, it is more compact, lighter weight, has a bigger magazine
>>>>>> capacity which can be easily expanded to ludicrous size, shoots rounds
>>>>>> that are themselves light weight so more can be carried, has a pistol
>>>>>> grip intended to keep control even when running, dodging, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The platform was originally designed with that combat use in mind. And
>>>>>> none of those features are particularly useful for any other purpose,
>>>>>> except _pretending_ to that use at a shooting range. Or just looking macho.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Frank... yes you can buy 30 round magazines for AR type rifles...
>>>>> and you can buy 5 round magazines. And, contrary to your arguments it
>>>>> is used extensively for target shooting as well as hunting ...
>>>>
>>>> 30 round magazines seem to be the most typical. If ARs were absolutely
>>>> restricted to five round magazines, I wouldn't mind them quite so much.
>>>> Five rounds is fine for legitimate uses. 30 rounds is for battle.
>>>>
>>>> Do people target shoot ARs? Of course. But they're typically not
>>>> practicing for hunting, because the gun isn't the most effective type
>>>> for hunting. Nobody says "Grab your AR and lets get us some rabbits."
>>>> Nobody says "Let's set our AR sights for 500 yards and go hunt elk."
>>>>
>>>> I believe most people who target shoot ARs have subconscious fantasies
>>>> of blowing away The Other Guys. But only if it should become necessary,
>>>> of course!
>>>
>>> Frank, reality is that the demon AR type rifles, that seem to terrify
>>> you...
>>
>> Let's stop there. AR's don't terrify me any more than Tom Kunich does. I
>> put ARs in the same category as the several macho pickup trucks I noted
>> during our long-ish drive yesterday.
>>
>> The pickup trucks don't terrify me. They inspire mockery. I saw
>> spotlessly clean trucks even now, when most vehicles here are covered
>> with salt spray. Trucks that factory stylists purposely designed to look
>> intimidating ("Like it's coming for you" is a direct quote of an
>> industry guy). Trucks that then got jacked up an additional foot or so.
>> And then had oversized tires and rims added, that stick out six inches
>> beyond the body work on each side. Trucks being driven with their bright
>> headlights on, all the time. Trucks with loud exhausts. These are ALWAYS
>> the type of truck that "rolls coal," the ones that have been purposely
>> modified to blow clouds of smoke at cyclists and others. These are
>> ALWAYS the type of truck that have blocked the charging stations of
>> electric cars.
>>
>> Yes, pickup trucks have utility in some situations. But the dudes
>> driving those modified show-off things are not hauling big hay bales or
>> towing their farm tractors. If they were, the trucks wouldn't be so
>> shiny. They are like the first guy in our town that had one - a
>> seriously undersized guy with a huge need to compensate, to look and
>> feel tough.
>>
>> I think people who fetishize their ARs or their huge pickup trucks are
>> both compensating. I think "I can fire thirty rounds in ten seconds" is
>> in the same category as "I can run your little car over if you don't get
>> out of my way."
>
> Really Frank? Or just your imagination?
>
> I ask as, I'm guessing here as I've never actually counted them, but
> I'd say that as many as half of the houses along "my" street have a
> pickup parked in front of them - usually a Isuzu but some Toyota. In
> fact I've got a 25 year old Isuzu myself.

John, does your 25 year old Isuzu have a huge front end that reaches
nearly six feet above the ground? That's one of the styling cues
deliberately used to appeal to the macho crowd. Have you raised your
truck at least eight inches above stock height? Did you put on
aftermarket oversize tires and wheels, so big that they protrude at
least six inches past the bodywork? Did you install a light bar to blind
anyone who objects to your high beam headlights in their eyes? Did you
install a loud exhaust? Can your truck "roll coal"?

Those are the trucks I'm talking about, not your Isuzu.

> Frank, I believe that you are turning into a bigot.
> bigot ~ noun
> A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from
> his own.

Sorry, John, but you seem to be losing track of what I'm saying. I'm
complaining about affectations that correlate with bad social behavior.
No driver of a normal Isuzu pickup has ever tailgated me with high beams
glaring as I've passed a semi. I doubt any Isuzu driver has ever "rolled
coal" at cyclists.

People tend to adopt styles that reflect their personalities. I think
the owners of big, loud, "petro masculinity" pickups are typically
sending deliberate and obnoxious messages. I very much doubt that you do
the same.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/16/2022 10:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:12:21 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:19:37 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell and Flunky have the idea that a woman can do anything a man can.
>>>>> This was the same BS by which they were attempting to put women into combat.
>>>>> They do not have the physical strength and fortitude to protect themselves in such
>>>>> conditions and hence become a burden upon the men who of needs must then protect them.
>>>> Right, where would society be if women ever thought they could do anything more than birth babies? They shouldn't even be allowed to vote, lest their vapors take hold of them while in the polling booth! They need big strong men like tommy to protect them!
>>>>> These guys have never fired a 12 gauge or high powered rifle and yet are pretending knowledge they don't have.
>>>> I used to go hunting on occasion with my father and grandfather - duck hunting with a 12 gauge. Besides that, list one place in this forum where I ever spoke of any firearm expertise. I don't consider myself a firearms expert, and have never stated anything that would lead anyone to believe otherwise. This is another case of you imagining I've written something I didn't.
>>>>> I have never seen woman, even good trap shooters fire even a full box of 12 gauge and trap shot are light.
>>>>> I think that they more commonly were shooting 20 gauge. It fit their physique much better.
>>>> More fishing with dynamite - this search took me all of five minutes:
>>>> https://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-girl-10-rising-competitive-shooting-star-prove/story?id=27318927
>>>> "Ten-year-old Shyanne Roberts loves purple: Purple sneakers, purple bike -- even her semi-automatic shotgun is purple.“[It’s] a Beretta 1301, 12 gauge,” she said, holding up a firearm that is longer than she is tall."
>>>>
>>>> https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/31/with-gun-sponsorships-and-support-a-14-year-old-girls-rise-on-the-active-shooting-circuit/
>>>> “Despite her small size, she went right for the 12-gauge,” said Kate Arnzen, owner of Arnzen Arms, an Eden Prairie gun shop, one of Dakota’s first sponsors. “Some kids are more intimidated doing the rifle and shotgun. Not her.”
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/sports/the-skeet-shooter-kim-rhode-has-sights-trained-on-fifth-olympic-medal.html
>>>> "Kim Rhode slips two shells into her 12-gauge shotgun, yells “Pull!” and takes dead-aim on the first target, then a second one whizzing through the air. She hits both cleanly, leaving orange clouds of chalk hanging in the cool air."
>>>>
>>>> https://scliving.coop/sc-life/sc-life-features/young-guns/
>>>> "16-year-old Bonnie Wyatt steps easily into her shooting stance, leaning forward slightly with the stock of her 12-gauge Beretta shotgun pressed tightly into her right shoulder."
>>>>
>>>> https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/06/18/emily-ferguson-one-eyed-trap-shooter-sports-awards-courage-award-winner/5318649002/
>>>> "Emily Ferguson assembles her Beretta 692 12-gauge shotgun at the Memphis Sports Shooting Association in Lakeland"
>>>>
>>>> Lessee....All USA generals went to west point, women can't handle a 12 gauge, the supreme court ruled large capacity magazine bans are unconstitutional....just another typical week of Tommy thinking he knows what he's talking about - and failing miserably.
>>>> "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich
>>> So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
>> Tommy boy, you need to expand your circle of acquaintances. I have ridden with women who cold out ride me. Speed, distance. They were stronger bicyclists than me. On the bike anyway. In a physical fist fight I might have taken them. Maybe.
>>
>> Back in 2007 I rode Paris Brest Paris. 750 mile brevet from a Paris suburb to Brest on the ocean and back. Time limit of 90 hours. I rode it a bit faster. I placed #678. Yeah!!!!!!!! There were 3607 finishers out of a total starters of 5159. 12 women were faster than me. Yes a whole dozen women rode faster on PBP 2007 than me. One was from the USA. Other 11 were foreigners. Although for a French ride with a world wide participation, I am not sure how the word "foreigners" really applies. It doesn't bother me too much that 12 women rode faster than me.
> Explain why the women's Tour de France has no comparison with the men's? A woman can outride YOU? What is that supposed to mean?
>

It means something like this:
https://www.mikrora.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/venn_diagram_template_17_2.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/16/2022 11:24 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:37:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/15/2022 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
>> Tom, if you don't know any women who can outride you any day of the
>> week, you need to meet more interesting women.
>>
>> Hell, one woman I know very well and have ridden with extensively
>> recently _ran_ 100 miles, solo. I have no doubt she could outride me if
>> she chose to.
>>
>> Although I'll add, we haven't seen any clues that any women at all
>> currently associate with you.
>
> Frank, I'm getting really tired of you inventing what I said and what I meant.
> What in hell does it matter if a woman can ride faster than me?

Tom, you were the one who brought it up regarding someone else. See above!

You really need to start taking notes. Your "memory" is constantly
losing track of conversations.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 11:16:54 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/15/2022 6:00 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Tommy, before you pass, you need to write a book or describe to an author what it is like living with your mental capacity. Describe how your brain operates. Then sell this book. And make a movie too. I am positive it would go down as one of the greatest, most infamous horror movies in all time. It would rival Freddy the masked killer movie. And rival Texas chainsaw murderer.
> > That really is a brilliant idea! And hey, maybe Jute could help!
> >
> > Just think, Tom, you'd finally have a chance at the fame you deserve!
> >
> > (And we'd be free of the two top trolls for a while.)
>
> Frank, this is another example of what your mind operates like. You think that I'm trying to impress you when I couldn't care less. I was nothing more than a worker. You're the one that thinks that your stupid opinions should somehow have value because you taught mechanical engineering when you say things so stupid people are laughing up their sleeve.

Sure, stupid things like 'women can't handle a 12-gauge', 'The US Supreme court turned over large magazine bans', _all_ us generals went to west point.. Hint: it ain't Frank we're laughing at, skippy.
"Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:37:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/15/2022 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >
> > > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> > Tom, if you don't know any women who can outride you any day of the
> > week, you need to meet more interesting women.
> >
> > Hell, one woman I know very well and have ridden with extensively
> > recently _ran_ 100 miles, solo. I have no doubt she could outride me if
> > she chose to.
> >
> > Although I'll add, we haven't seen any clues that any women at all
> > currently associate with you.
>
> Frank, I'm getting really tired of you inventing what I said and what I meant. What in hell does it matter if a woman can ride faster than me you moron?
>
> Annemiek Van Vleuten's average speed when she won the elite women's TT world championship in 2017: 40.025kph over 21.1km
> Tom Dumoulin's average speed when he won the men's TT world championship in 2017: 41.626kph over 31km
>
> By all means tell me why there is a 1.5 kph speed difference in the world championships with a 50% longer TT for the men?
>
> The mental problems of you communists are sickening.

You're the one who seems to have problems with men admitting they can be beaten by women, skippy. Why would you have brought it up if you didn't? oh, wait, I almost forgot, it's because you're a fucking idiot.
"Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 04:13:20 -0800 (PST), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

>I worked in corrections in the 70s. The total US prison population then was roughly 260,000. Today it is 1,873,000. It went from about a quarter million to almost 2 million in my lifetime. Of course I'm pretty old.
>Death penalty as a deterrent is based on the economic crime ideas of Jeremy Bentham, dating back to the 1830s. Research shows those are wrong.
>
>Recoil really does make a difference in accurate shooting, especially for the less experienced. Less than 5% of the population hunt, and probably not many of those fire many rounds per year. Now that military rifles have little recoil, I see soldiers holding them in ways that would be painful with a 12 gauge or .30 caliber, but that work very well with the 5.56 rounds.

Certainly a lighter weight rifle can be held in different ways then a
9lb plus rifle but I really would have to argue about the recoil and
accuracy. I used to shoot at a range where there was one guy shooting
a 300 Weatherby rifle that weighed something like 6 lbs. It kicked so
hard that he used to wad up a sweater to put between his shoulder and
the butt stock, and he shot some very impressive groups at 100 and 200
yards.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 07:37:06 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/15/2022 9:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:37:39 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/15/2022 1:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/15/2022 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as scale and scope, the history of suffering
>>>>> subjugation and destruction of unarmed populations is well
>>>>> known. No thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Are you worried the Canadians will invade and subjugate
>>>> us? Canadians seem to do fine - better than us - with much
>>>> more logical gun policies (and much less paranoia).
>>>>
>>>> Or did you seriously think Obama was going to take away all
>>>> your guns?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Canadian citizens have their own new and large problems.
>>>
>>> Mr Trudeau today invoked National Emergency powers rather
>>> than relent in his various population control orders:
>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-premiers-cabinet-1.6350734
>>>
>>> That's the brief anodyne report. Here are the chilling details:
>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-explainer-1.6351504
>>>
>>> A perusal of the writings, minutes and arguments of the
>>> Framers shows nothing about targets or hunting in relation
>>> to our beloved 2d. The keyword is 'tyranny'.
>>
>> Well, a bit of history.
>> Initially the U.S. was governed by the Articles of Confederation
>> (ratified in 1781) which gave most of the power in the united states
>> to the states. Subsequently, in an effort to strength the power of the
>> Central Government the Constitution was written... however a great
>> many of the citizens living in the U.S. viewed a strong central
>> government with considerable apprehension and it appeared that it
>> would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get the new
>> document accepted by the states.
>>
>> As a means of appeasing the states the so called Bill of Rights was
>> written, thus protecting the citizens and the states from a tyrannical
>> central government.
>>
>> Somewhere I read that "those that ignore history are doomed to repeat
>> it"
>>
>>
>
>Yes indeed, "the U.S. viewed a strong central government
>with considerable apprehension" then and now. With good
>reason, I might add.
>
>There are numerous examples of unarmed populations
>successfully raising an army to resist foreign invaders. The
>risk to unarmed populations isn't from without but rather
>from within.

Unfortunately all the rhetoric about freedom and so on is mostly just
that talk. I've lived in countries with governments ranging from a
rather loose democracy to an absolute dictatorship and I can see
little, if any difference in how Mr. Joe Average lives or feels.

I know people visiting and doing business with (distant) relatives in
Mainland China and they tell me that the people there are perfectly
happy. Cheerful, doing well, planning on buying a new car next year,
kids doing well in school, etc.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:25:41 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:19:37 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Russell and Flunky have the idea that a woman can do anything a man can.
> > > > This was the same BS by which they were attempting to put women into combat.
> > > > They do not have the physical strength and fortitude to protect themselves in such
> > > > conditions and hence become a burden upon the men who of needs must then protect them.
> > > Right, where would society be if women ever thought they could do anything more than birth babies? They shouldn't even be allowed to vote, lest their vapors take hold of them while in the polling booth! They need big strong men like tommy to protect them!
> > > > These guys have never fired a 12 gauge or high powered rifle and yet are pretending knowledge they don't have.
> > > I used to go hunting on occasion with my father and grandfather - duck hunting with a 12 gauge. Besides that, list one place in this forum where I ever spoke of any firearm expertise. I don't consider myself a firearms expert, and have never stated anything that would lead anyone to believe otherwise. This is another case of you imagining I've written something I didn't.
> > > > I have never seen woman, even good trap shooters fire even a full box of 12 gauge and trap shot are light.
> > > > I think that they more commonly were shooting 20 gauge. It fit their physique much better.
> > > More fishing with dynamite - this search took me all of five minutes:
> > > https://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-girl-10-rising-competitive-shooting-star-prove/story?id=27318927
> > > "Ten-year-old Shyanne Roberts loves purple: Purple sneakers, purple bike -- even her semi-automatic shotgun is purple.“[It’s] a Beretta 1301, 12 gauge,” she said, holding up a firearm that is longer than she is tall."
> > >
> > > https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/31/with-gun-sponsorships-and-support-a-14-year-old-girls-rise-on-the-active-shooting-circuit/
> > > “Despite her small size, she went right for the 12-gauge,” said Kate Arnzen, owner of Arnzen Arms, an Eden Prairie gun shop, one of Dakota’s first sponsors. “Some kids are more intimidated doing the rifle and shotgun. Not her.”
> > >
> > > https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/sports/the-skeet-shooter-kim-rhode-has-sights-trained-on-fifth-olympic-medal.html
> > > "Kim Rhode slips two shells into her 12-gauge shotgun, yells “Pull!” and takes dead-aim on the first target, then a second one whizzing through the air. She hits both cleanly, leaving orange clouds of chalk hanging in the cool air."
> > >
> > > https://scliving.coop/sc-life/sc-life-features/young-guns/
> > > "16-year-old Bonnie Wyatt steps easily into her shooting stance, leaning forward slightly with the stock of her 12-gauge Beretta shotgun pressed tightly into her right shoulder."
> > >
> > > https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/06/18/emily-ferguson-one-eyed-trap-shooter-sports-awards-courage-award-winner/5318649002/
> > > "Emily Ferguson assembles her Beretta 692 12-gauge shotgun at the Memphis Sports Shooting Association in Lakeland"
> > >
> > > Lessee....All USA generals went to west point, women can't handle a 12 gauge, the supreme court ruled large capacity magazine bans are unconstitutional....just another typical week of Tommy thinking he knows what he's talking about - and failing miserably.
> > > "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich
> >
> > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> You're really as stupid as they come. Seriously. I've never run into someone with such an incredibly low intellect backed up by an inversely proportional arrogance. How you got ' women can outride you' from links showing women (and young small women at that) regularly shoot 12 gauge is something only a highly talented psychoanalyst could derive.
> FWIW - I've ridden in plenty of races where women have finished in front of me. I'm no where near the level of a professional female cyclist and never have been, and yes, they are allowed to compete in USAC Pro/1/2/3 fields.. I have the ultimate respect for them.
> "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich

In USA amateur racing the men and women compete in the same races at the same time? I suppose that is practical. Road closure, if needed, needs to be minimized. So having two races at once makes a lot of sense. And for amateur racing, the number of women competing is usually very small. So having a race of 5 women for instance, does not make much sense. Better to just have them all on the road at once. I assume, that the final placings are differentiated by gender. First, second, third man across the line. First, second, third woman across the line. Does not matter where you fall in the total order of riders across the line.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 10:12:48 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:12:21 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail..com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:19:37 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Russell and Flunky have the idea that a woman can do anything a man can.
> > > > > This was the same BS by which they were attempting to put women into combat.
> > > > > They do not have the physical strength and fortitude to protect themselves in such
> > > > > conditions and hence become a burden upon the men who of needs must then protect them.
> > > > Right, where would society be if women ever thought they could do anything more than birth babies? They shouldn't even be allowed to vote, lest their vapors take hold of them while in the polling booth! They need big strong men like tommy to protect them!
> > > > > These guys have never fired a 12 gauge or high powered rifle and yet are pretending knowledge they don't have.
> > > > I used to go hunting on occasion with my father and grandfather - duck hunting with a 12 gauge. Besides that, list one place in this forum where I ever spoke of any firearm expertise. I don't consider myself a firearms expert, and have never stated anything that would lead anyone to believe otherwise. This is another case of you imagining I've written something I didn't.
> > > > > I have never seen woman, even good trap shooters fire even a full box of 12 gauge and trap shot are light.
> > > > > I think that they more commonly were shooting 20 gauge. It fit their physique much better.
> > > > More fishing with dynamite - this search took me all of five minutes:
> > > > https://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-girl-10-rising-competitive-shooting-star-prove/story?id=27318927
> > > > "Ten-year-old Shyanne Roberts loves purple: Purple sneakers, purple bike -- even her semi-automatic shotgun is purple.“[It’s] a Beretta 1301, 12 gauge,” she said, holding up a firearm that is longer than she is tall."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/31/with-gun-sponsorships-and-support-a-14-year-old-girls-rise-on-the-active-shooting-circuit/
> > > > “Despite her small size, she went right for the 12-gauge,” said Kate Arnzen, owner of Arnzen Arms, an Eden Prairie gun shop, one of Dakota’s first sponsors. “Some kids are more intimidated doing the rifle and shotgun. Not her.”
> > > >
> > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/sports/the-skeet-shooter-kim-rhode-has-sights-trained-on-fifth-olympic-medal.html
> > > > "Kim Rhode slips two shells into her 12-gauge shotgun, yells “Pull!” and takes dead-aim on the first target, then a second one whizzing through the air. She hits both cleanly, leaving orange clouds of chalk hanging in the cool air."
> > > >
> > > > https://scliving.coop/sc-life/sc-life-features/young-guns/
> > > > "16-year-old Bonnie Wyatt steps easily into her shooting stance, leaning forward slightly with the stock of her 12-gauge Beretta shotgun pressed tightly into her right shoulder."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/06/18/emily-ferguson-one-eyed-trap-shooter-sports-awards-courage-award-winner/5318649002/
> > > > "Emily Ferguson assembles her Beretta 692 12-gauge shotgun at the Memphis Sports Shooting Association in Lakeland"
> > > >
> > > > Lessee....All USA generals went to west point, women can't handle a 12 gauge, the supreme court ruled large capacity magazine bans are unconstitutional....just another typical week of Tommy thinking he knows what he's talking about - and failing miserably.
> > > > "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich
> > > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> > Tommy boy, you need to expand your circle of acquaintances. I have ridden with women who cold out ride me. Speed, distance. They were stronger bicyclists than me. On the bike anyway. In a physical fist fight I might have taken them. Maybe.
> >
> > Back in 2007 I rode Paris Brest Paris. 750 mile brevet from a Paris suburb to Brest on the ocean and back. Time limit of 90 hours. I rode it a bit faster. I placed #678. Yeah!!!!!!!! There were 3607 finishers out of a total starters of 5159. 12 women were faster than me. Yes a whole dozen women rode faster on PBP 2007 than me. One was from the USA. Other 11 were foreigners. Although for a French ride with a world wide participation, I am not sure how the word "foreigners" really applies. It doesn't bother me too much that 12 women rode faster than me.
> Explain why the women's Tour de France has no comparison with the men's? A woman can outride YOU? What is that supposed to mean?

Not sure how we got onto women's Tour de France. But with Tommy I guess that is to be expected. The past several decades have had an attempt to have a woman's race associated with the Tour. And in 2022, there is going to be an official one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_Femmes
Now as to why there has only been a feeble attempt in the past? Money. Men's sports, events are what sell tickets, advertising, sponsors, fame, glory, etc. In the USA there is a women's NBA league. And a women's soccer league too. I'm hardly aware there is a men's soccer league. And long ago in history there was a women's baseball league too. But no women's NFL or NHL leagues I think. But there is Olympic women's hockey. And for college sports, there are sort of equality for men and women. Even women's wrestling now. But the money is for the men sports. Except maybe with volleyball.. And women's college basketball has some presence.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:24:52 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:37:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/15/2022 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >
>> > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
>> Tom, if you don't know any women who can outride you any day of the
>> week, you need to meet more interesting women.
>>
>> Hell, one woman I know very well and have ridden with extensively
>> recently _ran_ 100 miles, solo. I have no doubt she could outride me if
>> she chose to.
>>
>> Although I'll add, we haven't seen any clues that any women at all
>> currently associate with you.
>
>Frank, I'm getting really tired of you inventing what I said and what I meant. What in hell does it matter if a woman can ride faster than me you moron?
>
>Annemiek Van Vleuten's average speed when she won the elite women's TT world championship in 2017: 40.025kph over 21.1km
>Tom Dumoulin's average speed when he won the men's TT world championship in 2017: 41.626kph over 31km
>
>By all means tell me why there is a 1.5 kph speed difference in the world championships with a 50% longer TT for the men?
>
>The mental problems of you communists are sickening.

Hi Ho! The return of the communists.

But Tommy, the initial discussion was centered around the fact that
woman riders can do far better then Tom Kunich, so unless you can
prove that you can ride 21.1 km at a speed of 40.024 km/h (on a
bicycle) then the supposition is correct and a girl can ride faster
then Tommy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 10:24:56 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 4:37:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/15/2022 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >
> > > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> > Tom, if you don't know any women who can outride you any day of the
> > week, you need to meet more interesting women.
> >
> > Hell, one woman I know very well and have ridden with extensively
> > recently _ran_ 100 miles, solo. I have no doubt she could outride me if
> > she chose to.
> >
> > Although I'll add, we haven't seen any clues that any women at all
> > currently associate with you.
>
> Frank, I'm getting really tired of you inventing what I said and what I meant. What in hell does it matter if a woman can ride faster than me you moron?
>

But Tommy boy, this is what you wrote YESTERDAY about women. Almost exactly 24 hours ago.

cycl...@gmail.com
Feb 15, 2022, 10:19:37 AM (yesterday)
to
Russell and Flunky have the idea that a woman can do anything a man can. This was the same BS by which they were attempting to put women into combat. They do not have the physical strength and fortitude to protect themselves in such conditions and hence become a burden upon the men who of needs must then protect them.

Tommy, it is only you who thinks there is no physical difference between men and women. Size, strength physical differences. And everyone is well aware that at the extreme ends of sports, men are faster, stronger, than women. No one is surprised by that. The only sports I can think of where men and women could easily compete directly against each other and have no segregation at all are curling (is this a sport?????), cornhole (that game where you throw bean bags into a hole in a piece of plywood tilted up), archery, shooting. Maybe there are a few other sports where there is no need to differentiate sex when competing.

> Annemiek Van Vleuten's average speed when she won the elite women's TT world championship in 2017: 40.025kph over 21.1km
> Tom Dumoulin's average speed when he won the men's TT world championship in 2017: 41.626kph over 31km
>
> By all means tell me why there is a 1.5 kph speed difference in the world championships with a 50% longer TT for the men?
>
> The mental problems of you communists are sickening.

On 2/16/2022 7:15 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Not sure how we got onto women's Tour de France. But with Tommy I guess that is to be expected. The past several decades have had an attempt to have a woman's race associated with the Tour. And in 2022, there is going to be an official one.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_Femmes
> Now as to why there has only been a feeble attempt in the past? Money. Men's sports, events are what sell tickets, advertising, sponsors, fame, glory, etc. In the USA there is a women's NBA league. And a women's soccer league too. I'm hardly aware there is a men's soccer league. And long ago in history there was a women's baseball league too. But no women's NFL or NHL leagues I think. But there is Olympic women's hockey. And for college sports, there are sort of equality for men and women. Even women's wrestling now. But the money is for the men sports. Except maybe with volleyball. And women's college basketball has some presence.

I'm not much into watching spectator sports. I usually do it only for a
few seconds at a time toward the end of our local news broadcast.

But I have to say, I prefer watching female athletes instead of male
athletes. And come to think of it, I feel the same way about female
musicians, female actors (who used to be called actresses), female
pedestrians... The ladies are so much more interesting!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:27:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2/15/2022 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:29:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/14/2022 10:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:59:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/13/2022 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:04:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I've pointed out repeatedly, the AR platform has several features
>>>>>>> that are optimized for combat situations. Compared to typical hunting
>>>>>>> rifles, it is more compact, lighter weight, has a bigger magazine
>>>>>>> capacity which can be easily expanded to ludicrous size, shoots rounds
>>>>>>> that are themselves light weight so more can be carried, has a pistol
>>>>>>> grip intended to keep control even when running, dodging, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The platform was originally designed with that combat use in mind. And
>>>>>>> none of those features are particularly useful for any other purpose,
>>>>>>> except _pretending_ to that use at a shooting range. Or just looking macho.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Frank... yes you can buy 30 round magazines for AR type rifles...
>>>>>> and you can buy 5 round magazines. And, contrary to your arguments it
>>>>>> is used extensively for target shooting as well as hunting ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 round magazines seem to be the most typical. If ARs were absolutely
>>>>> restricted to five round magazines, I wouldn't mind them quite so much.
>>>>> Five rounds is fine for legitimate uses. 30 rounds is for battle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do people target shoot ARs? Of course. But they're typically not
>>>>> practicing for hunting, because the gun isn't the most effective type
>>>>> for hunting. Nobody says "Grab your AR and lets get us some rabbits."
>>>>> Nobody says "Let's set our AR sights for 500 yards and go hunt elk."
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe most people who target shoot ARs have subconscious fantasies
>>>>> of blowing away The Other Guys. But only if it should become necessary,
>>>>> of course!
>>>>
>>>> Frank, reality is that the demon AR type rifles, that seem to terrify
>>>> you...
>>>
>>> Let's stop there. AR's don't terrify me any more than Tom Kunich does. I
>>> put ARs in the same category as the several macho pickup trucks I noted
>>> during our long-ish drive yesterday.
>>>
>>> The pickup trucks don't terrify me. They inspire mockery. I saw
>>> spotlessly clean trucks even now, when most vehicles here are covered
>>> with salt spray. Trucks that factory stylists purposely designed to look
>>> intimidating ("Like it's coming for you" is a direct quote of an
>>> industry guy). Trucks that then got jacked up an additional foot or so.
>>> And then had oversized tires and rims added, that stick out six inches
>>> beyond the body work on each side. Trucks being driven with their bright
>>> headlights on, all the time. Trucks with loud exhausts. These are ALWAYS
>>> the type of truck that "rolls coal," the ones that have been purposely
>>> modified to blow clouds of smoke at cyclists and others. These are
>>> ALWAYS the type of truck that have blocked the charging stations of
>>> electric cars.
>>>
>>> Yes, pickup trucks have utility in some situations. But the dudes
>>> driving those modified show-off things are not hauling big hay bales or
>>> towing their farm tractors. If they were, the trucks wouldn't be so
>>> shiny. They are like the first guy in our town that had one - a
>>> seriously undersized guy with a huge need to compensate, to look and
>>> feel tough.
>>>
>>> I think people who fetishize their ARs or their huge pickup trucks are
>>> both compensating. I think "I can fire thirty rounds in ten seconds" is
>>> in the same category as "I can run your little car over if you don't get
>>> out of my way."
>>
>> Really Frank? Or just your imagination?
>>
>> I ask as, I'm guessing here as I've never actually counted them, but
>> I'd say that as many as half of the houses along "my" street have a
>> pickup parked in front of them - usually a Isuzu but some Toyota. In
>> fact I've got a 25 year old Isuzu myself.
>
>John, does your 25 year old Isuzu have a huge front end that reaches
>nearly six feet above the ground? That's one of the styling cues
>deliberately used to appeal to the macho crowd. Have you raised your
>truck at least eight inches above stock height? Did you put on
>aftermarket oversize tires and wheels, so big that they protrude at
>least six inches past the bodywork? Did you install a light bar to blind
>anyone who objects to your high beam headlights in their eyes? Did you
>install a loud exhaust? Can your truck "roll coal"?
>
>Those are the trucks I'm talking about, not your Isuzu.
>
>> Frank, I believe that you are turning into a bigot.
>> bigot ~ noun
>> A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from
>> his own.
>
>Sorry, John, but you seem to be losing track of what I'm saying. I'm
>complaining about affectations that correlate with bad social behavior.
>No driver of a normal Isuzu pickup has ever tailgated me with high beams
>glaring as I've passed a semi. I doubt any Isuzu driver has ever "rolled
>coal" at cyclists.
>
>People tend to adopt styles that reflect their personalities. I think
>the owners of big, loud, "petro masculinity" pickups are typically
>sending deliberate and obnoxious messages. I very much doubt that you do
>the same.

Oh! You mean trucks with big high front ends appeal to the Macho
crowd? Really?

I guess that there must be a lot of Macho people in the U.S. as I read
that the Ford F series (pickup) is the largest seller in the U.S. and,
in fact the three largest selling auto models, in the U.S. are the
Ford F models, the Chevrolet Silverado and the Ram Pickup.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2/16/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:27:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/15/2022 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:29:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/14/2022 10:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:59:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/13/2022 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:04:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I've pointed out repeatedly, the AR platform has several features
>>>>>>>> that are optimized for combat situations. Compared to typical hunting
>>>>>>>> rifles, it is more compact, lighter weight, has a bigger magazine
>>>>>>>> capacity which can be easily expanded to ludicrous size, shoots rounds
>>>>>>>> that are themselves light weight so more can be carried, has a pistol
>>>>>>>> grip intended to keep control even when running, dodging, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The platform was originally designed with that combat use in mind. And
>>>>>>>> none of those features are particularly useful for any other purpose,
>>>>>>>> except _pretending_ to that use at a shooting range. Or just looking macho.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Frank... yes you can buy 30 round magazines for AR type rifles...
>>>>>>> and you can buy 5 round magazines. And, contrary to your arguments it
>>>>>>> is used extensively for target shooting as well as hunting ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 30 round magazines seem to be the most typical. If ARs were absolutely
>>>>>> restricted to five round magazines, I wouldn't mind them quite so much.
>>>>>> Five rounds is fine for legitimate uses. 30 rounds is for battle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do people target shoot ARs? Of course. But they're typically not
>>>>>> practicing for hunting, because the gun isn't the most effective type
>>>>>> for hunting. Nobody says "Grab your AR and lets get us some rabbits."
>>>>>> Nobody says "Let's set our AR sights for 500 yards and go hunt elk."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe most people who target shoot ARs have subconscious fantasies
>>>>>> of blowing away The Other Guys. But only if it should become necessary,
>>>>>> of course!
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, reality is that the demon AR type rifles, that seem to terrify
>>>>> you...
>>>>
>>>> Let's stop there. AR's don't terrify me any more than Tom Kunich does. I
>>>> put ARs in the same category as the several macho pickup trucks I noted
>>>> during our long-ish drive yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> The pickup trucks don't terrify me. They inspire mockery. I saw
>>>> spotlessly clean trucks even now, when most vehicles here are covered
>>>> with salt spray. Trucks that factory stylists purposely designed to look
>>>> intimidating ("Like it's coming for you" is a direct quote of an
>>>> industry guy). Trucks that then got jacked up an additional foot or so.
>>>> And then had oversized tires and rims added, that stick out six inches
>>>> beyond the body work on each side. Trucks being driven with their bright
>>>> headlights on, all the time. Trucks with loud exhausts. These are ALWAYS
>>>> the type of truck that "rolls coal," the ones that have been purposely
>>>> modified to blow clouds of smoke at cyclists and others. These are
>>>> ALWAYS the type of truck that have blocked the charging stations of
>>>> electric cars.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, pickup trucks have utility in some situations. But the dudes
>>>> driving those modified show-off things are not hauling big hay bales or
>>>> towing their farm tractors. If they were, the trucks wouldn't be so
>>>> shiny. They are like the first guy in our town that had one - a
>>>> seriously undersized guy with a huge need to compensate, to look and
>>>> feel tough.
>>>>
>>>> I think people who fetishize their ARs or their huge pickup trucks are
>>>> both compensating. I think "I can fire thirty rounds in ten seconds" is
>>>> in the same category as "I can run your little car over if you don't get
>>>> out of my way."
>>>
>>> Really Frank? Or just your imagination?
>>>
>>> I ask as, I'm guessing here as I've never actually counted them, but
>>> I'd say that as many as half of the houses along "my" street have a
>>> pickup parked in front of them - usually a Isuzu but some Toyota. In
>>> fact I've got a 25 year old Isuzu myself.
>>
>> John, does your 25 year old Isuzu have a huge front end that reaches
>> nearly six feet above the ground? That's one of the styling cues
>> deliberately used to appeal to the macho crowd. Have you raised your
>> truck at least eight inches above stock height? Did you put on
>> aftermarket oversize tires and wheels, so big that they protrude at
>> least six inches past the bodywork? Did you install a light bar to blind
>> anyone who objects to your high beam headlights in their eyes? Did you
>> install a loud exhaust? Can your truck "roll coal"?
>>
>> Those are the trucks I'm talking about, not your Isuzu.
>>
>>> Frank, I believe that you are turning into a bigot.
>>> bigot ~ noun
>>> A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from
>>> his own.
>>
>> Sorry, John, but you seem to be losing track of what I'm saying. I'm
>> complaining about affectations that correlate with bad social behavior.
>> No driver of a normal Isuzu pickup has ever tailgated me with high beams
>> glaring as I've passed a semi. I doubt any Isuzu driver has ever "rolled
>> coal" at cyclists.
>>
>> People tend to adopt styles that reflect their personalities. I think
>> the owners of big, loud, "petro masculinity" pickups are typically
>> sending deliberate and obnoxious messages. I very much doubt that you do
>> the same.
>
> Oh! You mean trucks with big high front ends appeal to the Macho
> crowd? Really?
>
> I guess that there must be a lot of Macho people in the U.S. as I read
> that the Ford F series (pickup) is the largest seller in the U.S. and,
> in fact the three largest selling auto models, in the U.S. are the
> Ford F models, the Chevrolet Silverado and the Ram Pickup.
>

In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
4-door models.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 19:34:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/16/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:27:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/15/2022 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:29:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/14/2022 10:10 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:59:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/13/2022 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:04:06 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I've pointed out repeatedly, the AR platform has several features
>>>>>>>>> that are optimized for combat situations. Compared to typical hunting
>>>>>>>>> rifles, it is more compact, lighter weight, has a bigger magazine
>>>>>>>>> capacity which can be easily expanded to ludicrous size, shoots rounds
>>>>>>>>> that are themselves light weight so more can be carried, has a pistol
>>>>>>>>> grip intended to keep control even when running, dodging, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The platform was originally designed with that combat use in mind. And
>>>>>>>>> none of those features are particularly useful for any other purpose,
>>>>>>>>> except _pretending_ to that use at a shooting range. Or just looking macho.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But Frank... yes you can buy 30 round magazines for AR type rifles...
>>>>>>>> and you can buy 5 round magazines. And, contrary to your arguments it
>>>>>>>> is used extensively for target shooting as well as hunting ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 30 round magazines seem to be the most typical. If ARs were absolutely
>>>>>>> restricted to five round magazines, I wouldn't mind them quite so much.
>>>>>>> Five rounds is fine for legitimate uses. 30 rounds is for battle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do people target shoot ARs? Of course. But they're typically not
>>>>>>> practicing for hunting, because the gun isn't the most effective type
>>>>>>> for hunting. Nobody says "Grab your AR and lets get us some rabbits."
>>>>>>> Nobody says "Let's set our AR sights for 500 yards and go hunt elk."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe most people who target shoot ARs have subconscious fantasies
>>>>>>> of blowing away The Other Guys. But only if it should become necessary,
>>>>>>> of course!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank, reality is that the demon AR type rifles, that seem to terrify
>>>>>> you...
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's stop there. AR's don't terrify me any more than Tom Kunich does. I
>>>>> put ARs in the same category as the several macho pickup trucks I noted
>>>>> during our long-ish drive yesterday.
>>>>>
>>>>> The pickup trucks don't terrify me. They inspire mockery. I saw
>>>>> spotlessly clean trucks even now, when most vehicles here are covered
>>>>> with salt spray. Trucks that factory stylists purposely designed to look
>>>>> intimidating ("Like it's coming for you" is a direct quote of an
>>>>> industry guy). Trucks that then got jacked up an additional foot or so.
>>>>> And then had oversized tires and rims added, that stick out six inches
>>>>> beyond the body work on each side. Trucks being driven with their bright
>>>>> headlights on, all the time. Trucks with loud exhausts. These are ALWAYS
>>>>> the type of truck that "rolls coal," the ones that have been purposely
>>>>> modified to blow clouds of smoke at cyclists and others. These are
>>>>> ALWAYS the type of truck that have blocked the charging stations of
>>>>> electric cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, pickup trucks have utility in some situations. But the dudes
>>>>> driving those modified show-off things are not hauling big hay bales or
>>>>> towing their farm tractors. If they were, the trucks wouldn't be so
>>>>> shiny. They are like the first guy in our town that had one - a
>>>>> seriously undersized guy with a huge need to compensate, to look and
>>>>> feel tough.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think people who fetishize their ARs or their huge pickup trucks are
>>>>> both compensating. I think "I can fire thirty rounds in ten seconds" is
>>>>> in the same category as "I can run your little car over if you don't get
>>>>> out of my way."
>>>>
>>>> Really Frank? Or just your imagination?
>>>>
>>>> I ask as, I'm guessing here as I've never actually counted them, but
>>>> I'd say that as many as half of the houses along "my" street have a
>>>> pickup parked in front of them - usually a Isuzu but some Toyota. In
>>>> fact I've got a 25 year old Isuzu myself.
>>>
>>> John, does your 25 year old Isuzu have a huge front end that reaches
>>> nearly six feet above the ground? That's one of the styling cues
>>> deliberately used to appeal to the macho crowd. Have you raised your
>>> truck at least eight inches above stock height? Did you put on
>>> aftermarket oversize tires and wheels, so big that they protrude at
>>> least six inches past the bodywork? Did you install a light bar to blind
>>> anyone who objects to your high beam headlights in their eyes? Did you
>>> install a loud exhaust? Can your truck "roll coal"?
>>>
>>> Those are the trucks I'm talking about, not your Isuzu.
>>>
>>>> Frank, I believe that you are turning into a bigot.
>>>> bigot ~ noun
>>>> A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from
>>>> his own.
>>>
>>> Sorry, John, but you seem to be losing track of what I'm saying. I'm
>>> complaining about affectations that correlate with bad social behavior.
>>> No driver of a normal Isuzu pickup has ever tailgated me with high beams
>>> glaring as I've passed a semi. I doubt any Isuzu driver has ever "rolled
>>> coal" at cyclists.
>>>
>>> People tend to adopt styles that reflect their personalities. I think
>>> the owners of big, loud, "petro masculinity" pickups are typically
>>> sending deliberate and obnoxious messages. I very much doubt that you do
>>> the same.
>>
>> Oh! You mean trucks with big high front ends appeal to the Macho
>> crowd? Really?
>>
>> I guess that there must be a lot of Macho people in the U.S. as I read
>> that the Ford F series (pickup) is the largest seller in the U.S. and,
>> in fact the three largest selling auto models, in the U.S. are the
>> Ford F models, the Chevrolet Silverado and the Ram Pickup.
>>
>
>In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
>pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
>4-door models.

Here pickups are the cheapest "auto" due to the vehicle tax system
that classes them as a "work vehicle" so many families, "starting
out", one might say, buy a pickup as their first car. And 4 door
pickups are becoming more popular. And they are "handy" and families
often just keep them when they finally buy the sedan.

But cars have been a status symbol, probably as long as they have
existed. Off to the supermarket to buy groceries.... in my 2022 Ford
F-150 - $31,335 or the 2022 2 Series BMW - $36,695.
Who is "putting on the dog"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>
> In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
> pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
> 4-door models.

Are they jacked up a foot, sporting oversized tires, light bars, loud exhausts, mudflaps with
this theme ?
https://www.bigrigchromeshop.com/sitting-lady-mud-flap-cut-out-p-565352.html#.Yg3Ob5aIYaE

Do they always drive with high beams on? Do they roll coal and block Tesla charging stations?
Those are the kinds I'm complaining about.

(I don't think the popularity of other pickups is really logical, but that's a separate point.)

- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:30:31 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
>> pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
>> 4-door models.
>
>Are they jacked up a foot, sporting oversized tires, light bars, loud exhausts, mudflaps with
>this theme ?
>https://www.bigrigchromeshop.com/sitting-lady-mud-flap-cut-out-p-565352.html#.Yg3Ob5aIYaE
>
>Do they always drive with high beams on? Do they roll coal and block Tesla charging stations?
>Those are the kinds I'm complaining about.
>
>(I don't think the popularity of other pickups is really logical, but that's a separate point.)
>
>- Frank Krygowski

But why ever not? After all you ride a bicycle and from your own
writing frequently "seize the lane" and hinder other vehicles
traveling at legal rates of speed. Why shouldn't other vehicles be
allowed to hinder you?

And, of course, you will argue that you have a legal right to do so,
but these outrageous motor cars you rant about must be legal, I
believe in all states, as they must pass an annual inspection. Don't
they?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:03:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:30:31 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
> >> pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
> >> 4-door models.
> >
> >Are they jacked up a foot, sporting oversized tires, light bars, loud exhausts, mudflaps with
> >this theme ?
> >https://www.bigrigchromeshop.com/sitting-lady-mud-flap-cut-out-p-565352.html#.Yg3Ob5aIYaE
> >
> >Do they always drive with high beams on? Do they roll coal and block Tesla charging stations?
> >Those are the kinds I'm complaining about.
> >
> >(I don't think the popularity of other pickups is really logical, but that's a separate point.)
> >
> >- Frank Krygowski
> But why ever not? After all you ride a bicycle and from your own
> writing frequently "seize the lane" and hinder other vehicles
> traveling at legal rates of speed. Why shouldn't other vehicles be
> allowed to hinder you?
>
> And, of course, you will argue that you have a legal right to do so,
> but these outrageous motor cars you rant about must be legal, I
> believe in all states, as they must pass an annual inspection. Don't
> they?
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

No. There is no annual inspection of vehicles in the USA. You do have to pay an annual registration fee for your car in the state. But no one inspects it and you do not turn in any inspection report to the state. It is 100% legal to drive the biggest pile of junk on earth on the highway as long as you paid the registration fees and license fees.

Am 17.02.2022 um 10:01 schrieb russellseaton1@yahoo.com:

> No. There is no annual inspection of vehicles in the USA. You do
> have to pay an annual registration fee for your car in the state.
> But no one inspects it and you do not turn in any inspection report
> to the state. It is 100% legal to drive the biggest pile of junk on
> earth on the highway as long as you paid the registration fees and
> license fees.

This might be one of the reasons why US road deaths are so high compared
to Europe.
In Europe, we must have a safety inspection every two years (in Germany
an annual emmissions check as well).

Rolf

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 6:47:32 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:25:41 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail..com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:19:37 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Russell and Flunky have the idea that a woman can do anything a man can.
> > > > > This was the same BS by which they were attempting to put women into combat.
> > > > > They do not have the physical strength and fortitude to protect themselves in such
> > > > > conditions and hence become a burden upon the men who of needs must then protect them.
> > > > Right, where would society be if women ever thought they could do anything more than birth babies? They shouldn't even be allowed to vote, lest their vapors take hold of them while in the polling booth! They need big strong men like tommy to protect them!
> > > > > These guys have never fired a 12 gauge or high powered rifle and yet are pretending knowledge they don't have.
> > > > I used to go hunting on occasion with my father and grandfather - duck hunting with a 12 gauge. Besides that, list one place in this forum where I ever spoke of any firearm expertise. I don't consider myself a firearms expert, and have never stated anything that would lead anyone to believe otherwise. This is another case of you imagining I've written something I didn't.
> > > > > I have never seen woman, even good trap shooters fire even a full box of 12 gauge and trap shot are light.
> > > > > I think that they more commonly were shooting 20 gauge. It fit their physique much better.
> > > > More fishing with dynamite - this search took me all of five minutes:
> > > > https://abcnews.go.com/US/jersey-girl-10-rising-competitive-shooting-star-prove/story?id=27318927
> > > > "Ten-year-old Shyanne Roberts loves purple: Purple sneakers, purple bike -- even her semi-automatic shotgun is purple.“[It’s] a Beretta 1301, 12 gauge,” she said, holding up a firearm that is longer than she is tall."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/31/with-gun-sponsorships-and-support-a-14-year-old-girls-rise-on-the-active-shooting-circuit/
> > > > “Despite her small size, she went right for the 12-gauge,” said Kate Arnzen, owner of Arnzen Arms, an Eden Prairie gun shop, one of Dakota’s first sponsors. “Some kids are more intimidated doing the rifle and shotgun. Not her.”
> > > >
> > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/sports/the-skeet-shooter-kim-rhode-has-sights-trained-on-fifth-olympic-medal.html
> > > > "Kim Rhode slips two shells into her 12-gauge shotgun, yells “Pull!” and takes dead-aim on the first target, then a second one whizzing through the air. She hits both cleanly, leaving orange clouds of chalk hanging in the cool air."
> > > >
> > > > https://scliving.coop/sc-life/sc-life-features/young-guns/
> > > > "16-year-old Bonnie Wyatt steps easily into her shooting stance, leaning forward slightly with the stock of her 12-gauge Beretta shotgun pressed tightly into her right shoulder."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/06/18/emily-ferguson-one-eyed-trap-shooter-sports-awards-courage-award-winner/5318649002/
> > > > "Emily Ferguson assembles her Beretta 692 12-gauge shotgun at the Memphis Sports Shooting Association in Lakeland"
> > > >
> > > > Lessee....All USA generals went to west point, women can't handle a 12 gauge, the supreme court ruled large capacity magazine bans are unconstitutional....just another typical week of Tommy thinking he knows what he's talking about - and failing miserably.
> > > > "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich
> > >
> > > So now you're accepting the fact that women can outride you any day of the week. Interesting.
> > You're really as stupid as they come. Seriously. I've never run into someone with such an incredibly low intellect backed up by an inversely proportional arrogance. How you got ' women can outride you' from links showing women (and young small women at that) regularly shoot 12 gauge is something only a highly talented psychoanalyst could derive.
> > FWIW - I've ridden in plenty of races where women have finished in front of me. I'm no where near the level of a professional female cyclist and never have been, and yes, they are allowed to compete in USAC Pro/1/2/3 fields. I have the ultimate respect for them.
> > "Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich
> In USA amateur racing the men and women compete in the same races at the same time? I suppose that is practical. Road closure, if needed, needs to be minimized. So having two races at once makes a lot of sense. And for amateur racing, the number of women competing is usually very small. So having a race of 5 women for instance, does not make much sense. Better to just have them all on the road at once. I assume, that the final placings are differentiated by gender. First, second, third man across the line. First, second, third woman across the line. Does not matter where you fall in the total order of riders across the line.

Yes they do. The rules _use_ to be that women can race either one mens category below their assigned category (e.g. a Cat 2 woman can race with a cat 3 mens field) or _two_ age groups higher (e.g. a 30 year old woman can race with the 50+ field). That was the guideline the last time I promoted a race (about 20 years ago) and was codified in the (then) USCF rulebook, but I just quickly perused the latest USAC rulebook and can't find anything about women racing with men. However, the Wells Avenue training crit held locally by the Boston Road Club only has a A, B, and C categories - no gender. The faster women race with the A category, generally considered to be a Pro/1/2/3 event. One race this past season we were treated to the USAC womens junior national criterium champion. The race averaged about 27.5 MPH IIRC, and she stayed up with the leaders the whole time. She didn't contest the sprint but stayed at the back of the lead group crossing the line.

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 4:01:46 AM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:03:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:30:31 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
> > >> pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
> > >> 4-door models.
> > >
> > >Are they jacked up a foot, sporting oversized tires, light bars, loud exhausts, mudflaps with
> > >this theme ?
> > >https://www.bigrigchromeshop.com/sitting-lady-mud-flap-cut-out-p-565352.html#.Yg3Ob5aIYaE
> > >
> > >Do they always drive with high beams on? Do they roll coal and block Tesla charging stations?
> > >Those are the kinds I'm complaining about.
> > >
> > >(I don't think the popularity of other pickups is really logical, but that's a separate point.)
> > >
> > >- Frank Krygowski
> > But why ever not? After all you ride a bicycle and from your own
> > writing frequently "seize the lane" and hinder other vehicles
> > traveling at legal rates of speed. Why shouldn't other vehicles be
> > allowed to hinder you?
> >
> > And, of course, you will argue that you have a legal right to do so,
> > but these outrageous motor cars you rant about must be legal, I
> > believe in all states, as they must pass an annual inspection. Don't
> > they?
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John B.
> No. There is no annual inspection of vehicles in the USA. You do have to pay an annual registration fee for your car in the state. But no one inspects it and you do not turn in any inspection report to the state. It is 100% legal to drive the biggest pile of junk on earth on the highway as long as you paid the registration fees and license fees.
That varies by state Russel. All new england states except connecticut have annual inspections. Many states do not, and there is no federal law.

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 4:01:46 AM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 12:03:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 20:30:31 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In my area a full size pickup is as likely to have woman
> > >> pilot as a man. And often with a child in a baby seat on the
> > >> 4-door models.
> > >
> > >Are they jacked up a foot, sporting oversized tires, light bars, loud exhausts, mudflaps with
> > >this theme ?
> > >https://www.bigrigchromeshop.com/sitting-lady-mud-flap-cut-out-p-565352.html#.Yg3Ob5aIYaE
> > >
> > >Do they always drive with high beams on? Do they roll coal and block Tesla charging stations?
> > >Those are the kinds I'm complaining about.
> > >
> > >(I don't think the popularity of other pickups is really logical, but that's a separate point.)
> > >
> > >- Frank Krygowski
> > But why ever not? After all you ride a bicycle and from your own
> > writing frequently "seize the lane" and hinder other vehicles
> > traveling at legal rates of speed. Why shouldn't other vehicles be
> > allowed to hinder you?
> >
> > And, of course, you will argue that you have a legal right to do so,
> > but these outrageous motor cars you rant about must be legal, I
> > believe in all states, as they must pass an annual inspection. Don't
> > they?
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John B.
> No. There is no annual inspection of vehicles in the USA. You do have to pay an annual registration fee for your car in the state. But no one inspects it and you do not turn in any inspection report to the state. It is 100% legal to drive the biggest pile of junk on earth on the highway as long as you paid the registration fees and license fees.

Many US states have annual inspections russel. All the new england states plus new york and Pennsylvania do.
https://www.partsgeek.com/mmparts/car_inspection_requirements_by_state_a_compendium.html