In article <tahtp0$1pjfg$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> I have a tool known as a pentadigit computer. Each month I get
> my statement in the mail and compare it to my list of purchases that
> I maintain. Then I enlist the pentadigit computer to make checkmarks
> next to each item. :)

if only someone would invent a way to automate that.

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 6:57:45 PM, Auric__ wrote:

>> View images <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>> View photos <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>
> Irfanview. (Better than what I used before, which was... uh........)

But for RJH, what do people use to replace Irfanview on the Macintosh?

On 7/11/2022 4:32 PM, Thomas wrote:
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 6:57:45 PM, Auric__ wrote:
>
>>> View images <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>> View photos <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>
>> Irfanview. (Better than what I used before, which was... uh........)
>
> But for RJH, what do people use to replace Irfanview on the Macintosh?

In a previous era, GraphicConverter from Lemke Software.
Apple liked the application enough, to bundle it in one
of their OS releases (they paid Lemke for a large number
of copies). I don't know if Lemke still works
on this or not. Seems to be the case, according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GraphicConverter

But as for the speed of some parts of Irfanview, it
can malloc at around 2GB/sec. Which is not your
"hobbyist 300MB/sec" achievement. Irfan does
know his stuff. The only thing remotely close
(and amusing), is an Imagemagick rewrite included
OpenMP usage, and when that fired up, it froze
Windows on the spot. Funny as hell. You're sitting
there, you clicked something and a nanosecond later,
nothing works on the machine :-) And that's OpenMP
attempting to malloc on all cores, at the same time.
If you set the OpenMP preference to "1 core", it
would not freeze the computer up. Microsoft fixed that.
But Imagemagick can be a "gas-guzzler". It's like
featuring drag races on a residential street - more
bar bet, than practical.

The secret then, is making software that does not
spool up the cooling fans, nor dim the lights :-)

Paul

Thomas wrote:

> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 6:57:45 PM, Auric__ wrote:
>
>>> View images <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>> View photos <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>
>> Irfanview. (Better than what I used before, which was... uh........)
>
> But for RJH, what do people use to replace Irfanview on the Macintosh?

I wish I knew. I'd prefer Irfanview on the Mac, but alas, 'tis not to be.
That's another thing that falls into the category of "I mostly don't."

(I suppose one could try Wine on the Mac, but that's not really my kind of
thing either.)

--
We all come out of high school thinking we're going to save the world.
Sometimes we do. And sometimes we don't. So you don't think about
saving the world. You think about saving just one person.

On 12 Jul 2022 at 01:03:57 BST, "Auric__" wrote:

> Thomas wrote:
>
>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 6:57:45 PM, Auric__ wrote:
>>
>>>> View images <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>>> View photos <=> Irfanview (it's fast)
>>>
>>> Irfanview. (Better than what I used before, which was... uh........)
>>
>> But for RJH, what do people use to replace Irfanview on the Macintosh?
>
> I wish I knew. I'd prefer Irfanview on the Mac, but alas, 'tis not to be.
> That's another thing that falls into the category of "I mostly don't."
>

I use Preview to view and mildly manipulate (rotate, export, convert, batch,
for example) images. Photos to organise and more aggressively edit. Aperture
for even more adventurous editing - but I paid for that.

> (I suppose one could try Wine on the Mac, but that's not really my kind of
> thing either.)

Just tried Irfanview on a Windows PC. Looks to be very quick and effective,
although not as versatile as Preview (no pdf support that I can see for
example). v.4 looks like an 80s throwback.
--
Cheers, Rob

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 5:22:18 AM, RJH wrote:

> I use Preview to view and mildly manipulate (rotate, export, convert, batch,
> for example) images. Photos to organise and more aggressively edit. Aperture
> for even more adventurous editing - but I paid for that.

Irfanview is what everyone uses on Windows because it's fast and functional
although it's only functional in the many things it does but there are many
things that Irfanview does not do so it's not a full fledged image editor.

If Preview is fast and functional, then it's the choice of the masses for
the Macintosh much as Irfanview is the choice of the masses for Windows.

Check out the batch operations (open an image in a folder of images, and
then press "b" and then "Add all" and then set a few switches (of which
there are many) and then "Start batch."
>> (I suppose one could try Wine on the Mac, but that's not really my kind of
>> thing either.)
>
> Just tried Irfanview on a Windows PC. Looks to be very quick and effective,
> although not as versatile as Preview (no pdf support that I can see for
> example). v.4 looks like an 80s throwback.

Of all the photo viewers possible, on the Windows PC Irfanview will be most
used by those who know the most. It's versatile but I don't know about a
one to one comparison with Preview on the Macintosh.

As for PDF, I just right clicked on a multipage PDF and said "Open with
Irfanview" and it opened up just fine. You may need to load the separate
set of plugins which everyone loads as part of the installation process.

Irfanview can also save an image as PDF although I would never consider
Irfanview a PDF editor.

We didn't discuss PDF editors, where my favorite isn't freeware but it does
edit the text somewhat, and it reorders pages and straightens them out and
flips and rotates them and extracts images and creates a PDF from entire
web hierarchies and removes pages and renumbers them and merges PDFs.

If someone asked me what's a good freeware PDF editor I'd ask them first
what they mean by "edit" since all those things you need to do once in a
while but I don't know of any freeware PDF editor that does them all.

Is there freeware on the Macintosh that does all those PDF editing tasks?

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On the list, I use Handbrake every so often - astonishingly quick on the right
> Mac (and PC too?). Audacity too. For drawing I use Draw.io over Inkscape.

Handbrake is a good foss choice because it's on Linux, Mac, and Windows.
In the past, Super was my goto freeware tool for file format conversions.

Other converters I use when the need arises are avconv, avidemux, avisynth,
ffmpeg, minitool, oxelon, totallyfreeconverter, and virtualdub but I don't
know if any of those are on the Mac.

In addition, almost all editors are also "save as" file format converters.
Often you may need a codec inspector to tell the containers and formats.

A freeware codec inspector I like is gspot but mediainfo, codecinstaller
and videoinspector also identify containers & formats when the need arises.

Some free codec packs are the klite and cole2K and techsmith packages
although again I don't know how prevalent they are on the Mac.

>
>> Or do the Mac users only want to complain nobody cares about them?
>
> Some might. Unlike Windows users ;-)

The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
Microsoft.

Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.

On 12 Jul 2022 at 07:50:31 BST, Peter wrote:

>>> Or do the Mac users only want to complain nobody cares about them?
>>
>> Some might. Unlike Windows users ;-)
>
> The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> Microsoft.
>

My 'real' friends aren't on the whole computer types, so the subject doesn't
tend to arise. Online, I'd agree - there does seem to be more deference to the
brand 'Apple'.

> Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.

Ha! Not sure quite what that means but I'm a user of both, just tools for the
job really. I much prefer Apple hardware - although aspects of the form over
function is infuriating (USB etc. tucked round the back for example).

--
Cheers, Rob

In article <taj5ip$1vp0u$1@dont-email.me>, Peter
<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

>
> The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> Microsoft.

rubbish.

> Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.

rubbish, no matter how it's phrased.

In article <XnsAED1AD9AF40FEauricauricauricauric@88.198.57.247>,
Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address> wrote:

>
> I wish I knew. I'd prefer Irfanview on the Mac, but alas, 'tis not to be.

there was a mac version of irfanview about 20 years ago. it didn't sell
well because most of what it does is included with mac os.

"Peter" <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote

| The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
| the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
| Microsoft.
| | Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
| with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.

Well put. I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
can choose from a dozen. Macs are like sports cars. Not
highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
made. When they need software there's usually one product,
not free, that everyone uses.

There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
their tools or you don't code on Macs.

A second factor is that Macs are a consumer product, while
Windows computers are a business product. The corporate customer
has always been Microsoft's main customer. The SOHo customer
is just a way to do beta testing and maintain their monopoly. So
Macs need to be entertaining, but it's OK if they break the software
or cable you bought last month. Windows, by contrast, provides
backward compatibility for as long as business wants it. Companies
are making their own in-hous software. First with C++, then with VB,
then with .Net... MS pushed that hard. They hooked customers in
that way. If they don't support those programs in the next Windows
then corporate customers won't upgrade.

MS are trying to cash in on the Apple model by locking down
Windows and pushing programmers into Metro. But it's really not
their thing to make fun products. So they build a locked down
business computer and then try to sell you "apps" for it. The whole
strategy doesn't really hang together.

In article <tajrk5$21tjj$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> | the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> | Microsoft.
> |
> | Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> | with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
>
> Well put.

it's completely wrong, and no surprise you latched on to it.

> I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
> It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
> standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
> can choose from a dozen.

that describes macs, not windows.

> Macs are like sports cars. Not
> highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
> made. When they need software there's usually one product,
> not free, that everyone uses.

that is false.

you know very little about macs and what is available.

> There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
> selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
> computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
> also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
> their tools or you don't code on Macs.

that is very much false.

your knowledge about macs or apple is non-existent.

apple has absolutely no control over what software or hardware
developers do.

apple does provide software development tools, as does microsoft, which
many people use, however, there is no requirement that they do so.

there are various third party alternatives, for both platforms. since
mac os is built on top of unix, the world of unix tools is available.

stop talking about things you know absolutely nothing about.

> A second factor is that Macs are a consumer product, while
> Windows computers are a business product.

very much false.

macs, ipads and iphones have a *huge* presence in businesses, including
*all* fortune 500 companies. all of them.

> The corporate customer
> has always been Microsoft's main customer.

not anymore.

> The SOHo customer
> is just a way to do beta testing and maintain their monopoly. So
> Macs need to be entertaining, but it's OK if they break the software
> or cable you bought last month.

nonsense.

one example is the transition to apple silicon processors, where apple
created an emulation layer (known as rosetta 3) so that existing intel
apps continue to work exactly as before, and in many cases, *faster*
than on actual intel hardware. users can't tell if an app is intel or
apple silicon without specifically looking.

> Windows, by contrast, provides
> backward compatibility for as long as business wants it.

that's another way to say stagnation.

> Companies
> are making their own in-hous software. First with C++, then with VB,
> then with .Net... MS pushed that hard. They hooked customers in
> that way.

you're contradicting yourself.

microsoft pushing vb and .net to hook in customers sounds like what you
have (falsely) accused apple of doing.

On 2022/07/12 5:7 am, nospam wrote:

>> Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
>> with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
>
> rubbish, no matter how it's phrased.

Whether you know it or not you're the embodiment of that Apple hive behavior.
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Well put.
>
> it's completely wrong, and no surprise you latched on to it.

You are perhaps the best example of exactly what I described so of course
you wouldn't have any idea you self identify with the Almighty Creator.

To you and for people like you, the Almighty Creator can do no wrong.

>
>> I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
>> It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
>> standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
>> can choose from a dozen.
>
> that describes macs, not windows.

I think the main difference between the various users of the three
platforms is that the Apple users buy into the hive behavior hype.

Nobody else defends the Almighty Creator anywhere near like Apple users do.

Apple carefully cultivates people who are susceptible to their messaging
which to regular people would sound ridiculous, but not to the Apple users
who typically meld a critical part of their persona with that Almighty
Creator hype.

You see this Almighty Creator hype in all the satirical youtube videos
which bring out how the typically naive Apple users fall for this
unbelievable hype more than do people who buy the other platforms.

People who buy Linux or Windows don't identify with the Almighty Creator.
They just buy it because it does what they want to get done.

They're not fooled by the hype about the Almighty Creator not being able to
ever do any wrong. They KNOW that Microsoft & Redhat can and will do wrong.

That very personal self identification with the Almighty Creator is
fundamentally what often distinguishes an Apple user from a typical person.

A simple example would be to criticize Apple on any Apple newsgroup versus
criticizing Linux Mint on a Linux newsgroup or making a deprecating comment
about Microsoft on the Windows newsgroups. The defense of the Almighty
Creator response will invariably be completely different on only the Apple
newsgroups even if the context of the criticism is exactly the same on all
three.

On 7/12/2022 1:22 AM, RJH wrote:

>
> Just tried Irfanview on a Windows PC. Looks to be very quick and effective,
> although not as versatile as Preview (no pdf support that I can see for
> example). v.4 looks like an 80s throwback.

Did you read the error dialog box, when dropping a PDF on Irfanview ?

Well, I got the error dialog box too. Lucky me :-)

First I check my inventory...

C:\Program Files\IrfanView\i_view64.exe # 64-bit Irfanview

Then, I look on the download page.

https://github.com/ArtifexSoftware/ghostpdl-downloads/releases

gs9561w32.exe 40.9 MB # For 32-bit
gs9561w64.exe 52.2 MB # For 64-bit <=== I need this one

The thing is, a 64-bit program could call a 32-bit program
at the shell level.

But some of the graphics programs, they call Ghostscript at
the DLL level. And in that case, the bitness has to match.
(It might not have to match, but it saves a lot of pain
to use the correct one for the job. Opinions vary on how
hard it is to mix DLLs.)

Once I installed gs9561w64.exe, quit Irfanview, dropped a
PDF on Irfanview, everything worked. Just like that.
Which is better than the integration on GIMP for win.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/SKy76Y5N/irfan-test-pdf.gif

Paul

Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Peter" <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote
>
> | The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> | the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> | Microsoft.
> |
> | Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> | with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
>
> Well put. I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
> It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
> standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
> can choose from a dozen. Macs are like sports cars. Not
> highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
> made. When they need software there's usually one product,
> not free, that everyone uses.
>
> There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
> selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
> computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
> also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
> their tools or you don't code on Macs.

It's really funny listening to people who don't use Macs explain what Macs
are like. Apart from the fact that apple does indeed sell devices the rest
of it is either wrong or no different to windows.

> A second factor is that Macs are a consumer product, while
> Windows computers are a business product.

Hahahahahahaha. I'll have to tell my work that, apparently I'm not doing
any business on my mac.

> The corporate customer
> has always been Microsoft's main customer. The SOHo customer
> is just a way to do beta testing and maintain their monopoly.

All users are beta testers. Windows 11 really doesn't look that ready which
is why business usually wait a couple years before rolling out new versions
of Windows. My work only began rolling out Win10 in 2019.

> So
> Macs need to be entertaining, but it's OK if they break the software

That never happens.

> or cable you bought last month. Windows, by contrast, provides
> backward compatibility for as long as business wants it.

Which is one of the big weaknesses of windows. It's rigid maintenance of
outdated protocols hinders innovation and adds bloats.

> Companies
> are making their own in-hous software. First with C++, then with VB,
> then with .Net... MS pushed that hard. They hooked customers in
> that way. If they don't support those programs in the next Windows
> then corporate customers won't upgrade.

Microsoft and Apple don't really care what language you use. They prefer
you to use the frameworks they provide and support, but you can do whatever
you please.

> MS are trying to cash in on the Apple model by locking down
> Windows and pushing programmers into Metro. But it's really not
> their thing to make fun products. So they build a locked down
> business computer and then try to sell you "apps" for it. The whole
> strategy doesn't really hang together.
>
>
>

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:07:18 AM, nospam wrote:

>> I wish I knew. I'd prefer Irfanview on the Mac, but alas, 'tis not to be.
>
> there was a mac version of irfanview about 20 years ago. it didn't sell
> well because most of what it does is included with mac os.

Sell?
Why?

Even on the M$ Store Irfanview isn't sold.
https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/irfanview64/9PJZ3BTL5PV6

There is no native-Macintosh version of IrfanView. But you can use
IrfanView inside a Mac program like WineBottler/DARWINE if you unzip the
zip version of Windows Irfanview or copy your existing Windows IrfanView
folder to a Mac.

But all that overhead will slow Irfanview down most likely, won't it?

With the claim to fame for Irfanview being its tremendously fast speed
it would be useful for RJH if someone can find a comparison of Macintosh
Preview speeds compared side by side with Windows Irfanview speeds for
initial startup and stepping through many photos using the spacebar.

On Jul 12, 2022, Mayayana wrote
(in article <tajrk5$21tjj$1@dont-email.me>):

> "Peter"<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote
>
> > The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> > the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> > Microsoft.
> >
> > Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> > with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
>
> Well put. I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
> It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
> standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
> can choose from a dozen. Macs are like sports cars. Not
> highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
> made. When they need software there's usually one product,
> not free, that everyone uses.
>
> There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
> selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
> computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
> also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
> their tools or you don't code on Macs.
>
> A second factor is that Macs are a consumer product, while
> Windows computers are a business product. The corporate customer
> has always been Microsoft's main customer. The SOHo customer
> is just a way to do beta testing and maintain their monopoly. So
> Macs need to be entertaining, but it's OK if they break the software
> or cable you bought last month. Windows, by contrast, provides
> backward compatibility for as long as business wants it. Companies
> are making their own in-hous software. First with C++, then with VB,
> then with .Net... MS pushed that hard. They hooked customers in
> that way. If they don't support those programs in the next Windows
> then corporate customers won't upgrade.
>
> MS are trying to cash in on the Apple model by locking down
> Windows and pushing programmers into Metro. But it's really not
> their thing to make fun products. So they build a locked down
> business computer and then try to sell you "apps" for it. The whole
> strategy doesn't really hang together.

This is like “opposite world”. I have been using, building, and writing
apps (hobby) for Windows computers since the early 90’s. I bought my first
MacBook a few years ago, and then traded it a year or so later for the new M1
MacBook. My main uses have always been music and photography, with a little
video. I put Crossover, and Win 11 using Parallels on the MacBook so I could
use any Windows apps that I would be missing on the Mac. I use no Windows
apps except an email client for a backup on the MacBook. I have found a Mac
app for everything I need, and most of them turned out to be better than what
I had been using on Windows. I still have 3 Windows pc’s. All 3 have been,
off and on, unintended science projects. Since I am my own tech support,
it’s very time consuming. It’s the Mac that just works. And when I do
need to call for tech support, the two are night and day. The Windows techs
are mostly idiots reading off scripts, and the Apple techs are mostly quite
good, although I have had only a couple of calls to them.

I suspect that you have about zero experience with Macs. I honestly thought
the same things as you wrote above, but after a few years with the MacBook,
while still occasionally using my Win pc’s for various reasons, I know that
everything you wrote - and that I used to think - is pretty silly.

On 11/07/2022 17:45, Paul wrote:
> On 7/11/2022 11:52 AM, David Brooks wrote:
>> On 11/07/2022 14:55, Paul wrote:
>>> Do you have any <MID> from this server ???
>>
>> Path: myplugbox.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: "Dave H" <pepedog@pepedog.com>
>> Newsgroups: banned
>> Subject: Are you banned?
>> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 10:15:13 +0100
>> Organization: MyPlugBox
>> Lines: 2
>> Message-ID: <klo22l$vc3$1@zyxel.myplugbox.com>
>> Reply-To: "Dave H" <pepedog@pepedog.com>
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: dave-vista.myplugbox.com
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>      format=flowed;
>>      charset="iso-8859-1";
>>      reply-type=original
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> X-Trace: zyxel.myplugbox.com 1367313301 32131 192.168.5.224 (30 Apr
>> 2013 09:15:01 GMT)
>> X-Complaints-To: usenet@zyxel.myplugbox.com
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:15:01 +0000 (UTC)
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
>> Xref: myplugbox.com banned:1
>>
>> You must contact your group admin to find out
>> Dave
>
> That seems to be a private server.
>
> Based on the example newsgroup not following convention.
>
> So that's not really USENET as most people know it, it
> would be closer to a BBS (bulletin board system).

Thanks, Paul

Please find a few minutes to read here:-

Message-ID: <ihgzK.96333$A665.19435@fx08.ams1>
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165764239300

Think outside the box again, eh?!!

Stay well

- David

On 12-07-2022 15:52 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's really funny listening to people who don't use Macs explain what Macs
> are like. Apart from the fact that apple does indeed sell devices the rest
> of it is either wrong or no different to windows.

You don't need to use a mac to know the mac users are very different.
The mac users are susceptible to never ending constant grooming by Apple.
Windows users are not.

Apple preys on these gullible mac users by nonstop perpetual grooming.
Very successfully so.

As a result, receptive users are groomed into an uptight swarm mentality.
Which is different from the Windows realistic pragmatic mindset.

To see that difference, all you need to do is watch the mac user respond to
any criticism compared to how Windows users react to that same criticism.

That's what's different.
The user.

On 12/07/2022 17:14, Bill W wrote:
> On Jul 12, 2022, Mayayana wrote
> (in article <tajrk5$21tjj$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> "Peter"<occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote
>>
>>> The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
>>> the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
>>> Microsoft.
>>>
>>> Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
>>> with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
>>
>> Well put. I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
>> It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
>> standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
>> can choose from a dozen. Macs are like sports cars. Not
>> highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
>> made. When they need software there's usually one product,
>> not free, that everyone uses.
>>
>> There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
>> selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
>> computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
>> also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
>> their tools or you don't code on Macs.
>>
>> A second factor is that Macs are a consumer product, while
>> Windows computers are a business product. The corporate customer
>> has always been Microsoft's main customer. The SOHo customer
>> is just a way to do beta testing and maintain their monopoly. So
>> Macs need to be entertaining, but it's OK if they break the software
>> or cable you bought last month. Windows, by contrast, provides
>> backward compatibility for as long as business wants it. Companies
>> are making their own in-hous software. First with C++, then with VB,
>> then with .Net... MS pushed that hard. They hooked customers in
>> that way. If they don't support those programs in the next Windows
>> then corporate customers won't upgrade.
>>
>> MS are trying to cash in on the Apple model by locking down
>> Windows and pushing programmers into Metro. But it's really not
>> their thing to make fun products. So they build a locked down
>> business computer and then try to sell you "apps" for it. The whole
>> strategy doesn't really hang together.
>
> This is like “opposite world”. I have been using, building, and writing
> apps (hobby) for Windows computers since the early 90’s. I bought my first
> MacBook a few years ago, and then traded it a year or so later for the new M1
> MacBook. My main uses have always been music and photography, with a little
> video. I put Crossover, and Win 11 using Parallels on the MacBook so I could
> use any Windows apps that I would be missing on the Mac. I use no Windows
> apps except an email client for a backup on the MacBook. I have found a Mac
> app for everything I need, and most of them turned out to be better than what
> I had been using on Windows. I still have 3 Windows pc’s. All 3 have been,
> off and on, unintended science projects. Since I am my own tech support,
> it’s very time consuming. It’s the Mac that just works. And when I do
> need to call for tech support, the two are night and day. The Windows techs
> are mostly idiots reading off scripts, and the Apple techs are mostly quite
> good, although I have had only a couple of calls to them.
>
> I suspect that you have about zero experience with Macs. I honestly thought
> the same things as you wrote above, but after a few years with the MacBook,
> while still occasionally using my Win pc’s for various reasons, I know that
> everything you wrote - and that I used to think - is pretty silly.

A good post, Bill 🙂

Thanks

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:44:04 PM, Bill W wrote:

> most of them turned out to be better than what
> I had been using on Windows.

What have you found for the speed difference between Preview on the
Macintosh and Irfanview on your Windows PCs?

Does Preview come up as fast as does Irfanview on similar hardware?
Does Preview spacebar though many photos as quickly as does Irfanview?

The answer will help RJH who wanted to add Macintosh tools to the earlier
listing of the #1 choices for freeware image, audio & video tools.

In article <tak5bm$22utg$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> > "Peter" <occassionally-confused@nospam.co.uk> wrote
> > | The Mac users tend to care a lot more to never disagree with Apple whereas
> > | the Windows users usually don't have any problems disagreeing with
> > | Microsoft.
> > |
> > | Said another way, the Mac users tend to personally identify their persona
> > | with that of Apple while Windows users easily rebel against hive behavior.
> >
> > Well put. I think of it like Windows users are Ford drivers.
> > It's just a computer. They don't want any problems. And it's
> > standardized. If you need a baby seat or a new radio, you
> > can choose from a dozen. Macs are like sports cars. Not
> > highly functional, problematically customized, but beautifully
> > made. When they need software there's usually one product,
> > not free, that everyone uses.
> >
> > There are various reasons for that. One is that MS is really
> > selling software, while Apple is selling devices. They're not two
> > computer companies. Since Apple controls the device, they
> > also want to tightly control the look and the software. You use
> > their tools or you don't code on Macs.
>
> It's really funny listening to people who don't use Macs explain what Macs
> are like.

indeed.

there's plenty of things apple does that's worthy of criticism,
however, the trolls never seem to know what any of those are because
they have never used what they're bashing.

all they can do is mindlessly regurgitate the usual myths that they
read somewhere.

In article <tak6os$3qe3$1@solani.org>, mike <this@address.is.invalid>
wrote:

> You don't need to use a mac to know the mac users are very different.

no they aren't. they just want to get work done, just like everyone
else.

> The mac users are susceptible to never ending constant grooming by Apple.
> Windows users are not.

just when you thought you heard it all, along comes someone who takes
it to a new level of absurdities.

In article <tak5oe$suk9$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Thomas
<canope234@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> >> I wish I knew. I'd prefer Irfanview on the Mac, but alas, 'tis not to be.
> >
> > there was a mac version of irfanview about 20 years ago. it didn't sell
> > well because most of what it does is included with mac os.
>
> Sell?
> Why?

maybe it was free. it's been 20+ years. all i remember is that they
released something and it failed in the marketplace because it wasn't
anywhere near as good as existing mac native apps, both free and paid.

>
> There is no native-Macintosh version of IrfanView. But you can use
> IrfanView inside a Mac program like WineBottler/DARWINE if you unzip the
> zip version of Windows Irfanview or copy your existing Windows IrfanView
> folder to a Mac.

even better, use it within a vm, such as vmware or parallels.

except that there is no reason to do either since there are much better
mac native alternatives.

> But all that overhead will slow Irfanview down most likely, won't it?

it will not, since it's native, not emulated.

> With the claim to fame for Irfanview being its tremendously fast speed

lots of apps make that claim. very few actually are.

> it would be useful for RJH if someone can find a comparison of Macintosh
> Preview speeds compared side by side with Windows Irfanview speeds for
> initial startup and stepping through many photos using the spacebar.

that's i/o bound, so the choice of app won't make a difference.