Am 16.10.22 um 13:34 schrieb FromTheRafters:
> Joerg Lorenz explained :
>> I do not have to prove anything.
>
> We don't have to believe unsubstantiated claims.

You are a Troll: In the case of security the reversal of evidence applies.

Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

In article <tigsjt$bi9r$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

>
> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.

yes they most certainly have.

start here. there's more detailed information in their white papers.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303>
For additional privacy and security, many Apple services use
end-to-end encryption, which encrypts your information using
keys derived from your devices and your device passcode, which
only you know. This means that only you can decrypt and access
your information, and only on trusted devices where you're signed
in with your Apple ID. No one else, not even Apple, can access your
end-to-end encrypted data. End-to-end encryption requires two-factor
authentication for your Apple ID and a passcode set on your devices.
Some features using end-to-end encryption may require up-to-date
software.

Am 16.10.22 um 16:53 schrieb nospam:
> many Apple services use
> end-to-end encryption

Which ones? How dopes it become transparent. Apple is not credible in
claiming end-to-end encyption.

Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
"claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
broken up.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

In article <tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> > many Apple services use
> > end-to-end encryption
>
> Which ones?

read the link in my post. there's even an easy to read chart.

> How dopes it become transparent.

magic.

> Apple is not credible in
> claiming end-to-end encyption.

yes they are.

> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
> broken up.

apple doesn't spy on pictures.

google, on the other hand...

On Oct 16, 2022 at 4:19:49 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tigpcl$btu6$1@solani.org>:

> Am 15.10.22 um 08:33 schrieb Snit:
>> On Oct 14, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>> <tidd6q$a6si$1@solani.org>:
>>
>>> Am 14.10.22 um 23:37 schrieb Snit:
>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
>>>> -----
>>>> End-to-end encryption
>>>> -----
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> Apple has no transparent end-to-end encryption for nothing. Never trust
>>> such promises.
>>
>>
>> If you have counter evidence I am open to it.
>
> I do not have to prove anything.

No. But failing to do so you fail to make a decent argument.

> Apple is obliged to substantiate which
> services have full and transparent End-to-end encryption. They don't and
> they can't.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 16, 2022 at 4:23:34 AM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
<tigpjo$34opu$1@dont-email.me>:

>>>>> When a user reconnects to the Internet using their Apple ID,
>>>>> I'm fairly
>>>>> sure that, with the right 'encouragement', that same malware could be
>>>>> extracted from the iCloud Drive and then get back to work on its
>>>>> malicious activity, on the computer's main hard drive.
>>>>
>>>> How?
>>>
>>> The same way a thumb drive, with installed malware, can infect a
>>> computer if it is inserted into a USB socket.
>>
>> The USB standard has vulnerabilities I do not think iCloud does.
>
> ITYM no 'features' like autorun/autoplay to deal with.

Correct.

> Yes, it is so
> annoying to have to push an additional button or two to play my movies
> and video games after I plug them into the USB sockets.

There are therapists who specialize just in those forms of stress. I wish you
well.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 16, 2022 at 5:14:53 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tigsjt$bi9r$1@solani.org>:

> Am 16.10.22 um 13:34 schrieb FromTheRafters:
>> Joerg Lorenz explained :
>>> I do not have to prove anything.
>>
>> We don't have to believe unsubstantiated claims.
>
> You are a Troll: In the case of security the reversal of evidence applies.
>
> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.

What would you accept as acceptable evidence?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 16, 2022 at 9:12:56 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>:

> Am 16.10.22 um 16:53 schrieb nospam:
>> many Apple services use
>> end-to-end encryption
>
> Which ones? How dopes it become transparent. Apple is not credible in
> claiming end-to-end encyption.

I would suggest they are more credible you suggesting they do not.

> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
> broken up.

You are asking to be trusted.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 16.10.22 um 22:23 schrieb Snit:
> On Oct 16, 2022 at 9:12:56 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
> <tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>:
>
>> Am 16.10.22 um 16:53 schrieb nospam:
>>> many Apple services use
>>> end-to-end encryption
>>
>> Which ones? How dopes it become transparent. Apple is not credible in
>> claiming end-to-end encyption.
>
> I would suggest they are more credible you suggesting they do not.
>
>> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
>> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
>> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
>> broken up.
>
> You are asking to be trusted.

Your choice.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 16, 2022 at 6:38:58 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiibnj$c7ms$1@solani.org>:

> Am 16.10.22 um 22:23 schrieb Snit:
>> On Oct 16, 2022 at 9:12:56 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>> <tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>:
>>
>>> Am 16.10.22 um 16:53 schrieb nospam:
>>>> many Apple services use
>>>> end-to-end encryption
>>>
>>> Which ones? How dopes it become transparent. Apple is not credible in
>>> claiming end-to-end encyption.
>>
>> I would suggest they are more credible you suggesting they do not.
>>
>>> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
>>> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
>>> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
>>> broken up.
>>
>> You are asking to be trusted.
>
> Your choice.

We have reached agreement.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 16.10.22 um 18:47 schrieb nospam:
> In article <tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
> wrote:
>> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
>> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
>> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
>> broken up.
>
> apple doesn't spy on pictures.

Certainly they do.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

In article <tiicaq$c7mt$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
> >> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
> >> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
> >> broken up.
> >
> > apple doesn't spy on pictures.
>
> Certainly they do.

they don't, nor can they, by design.

On Oct 16, 2022 at 6:49:14 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiicaq$c7mt$1@solani.org>:

> Am 16.10.22 um 18:47 schrieb nospam:
>> In article <tihai8$bn9o$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
>>> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
>>> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
>>> broken up.
>>
>> apple doesn't spy on pictures.
>
> Certainly they do.

Evidence?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 17.10.22 um 04:23 schrieb nospam:
> In article <tiicaq$c7mt$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Only the *superstupid* believe an American commercial company such
>>>> "claims". Are people even not learning it the hard way anmore? The
>>>> spying on pictures for example is only possible if the encyption is
>>>> broken up.
>>>
>>> apple doesn't spy on pictures.
>>
>> Certainly they do.
>
> they don't, nor can they, by design.

They do by design:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/apple-icloud-photos-scanning/

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 17.10.22 um 06:35 schrieb Snit:
> Evidence?

Fanboy?

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/apple-icloud-photos-scanning/

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 16, 2022 at 10:21:30 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiiooq$ctbu$1@solani.org>:

> Am 17.10.22 um 06:35 schrieb Snit:
>> Evidence?
>
> Fanboy?

No. Just like evidence.

>
> https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/apple-icloud-photos-scanning/

Thank you. I do recall that.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 16.10.22 um 22:22 schrieb Snit:
> On Oct 16, 2022 at 5:14:53 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.
>
> What would you accept as acceptable evidence?

A Due Diligence by an independent, non-government and non-profit
organization outside the USA.

"Certified by the NSA" is certainly not sufficient.

*ROTFLSTC*

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:18:01 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiis2q$cuj0$1@solani.org>:

> Am 16.10.22 um 22:22 schrieb Snit:
>> On Oct 16, 2022 at 5:14:53 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>>> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.
>>
>> What would you accept as acceptable evidence?
>
> A Due Diligence by an independent, non-government and non-profit
> organization outside the USA.
>
> "Certified by the NSA" is certainly not sufficient.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*

So really not likely to accept anything as sufficient. Fair enough.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 17.10.22 um 08:31 schrieb Snit:
> On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:18:01 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
> <tiis2q$cuj0$1@solani.org>:
>
>> Am 16.10.22 um 22:22 schrieb Snit:
>>> On Oct 16, 2022 at 5:14:53 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>>>> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.
>>>
>>> What would you accept as acceptable evidence?
>>
>> A Due Diligence by an independent, non-government and non-profit
>> organization outside the USA.
>>
>> "Certified by the NSA" is certainly not sufficient.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>
> So really not likely to accept anything as sufficient. Fair enough.

Learn to read and learn to understand what you read.
You obviously do not understand the message.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:33:35 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiisvv$cvcl$1@solani.org>:

> Am 17.10.22 um 08:31 schrieb Snit:
>> On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:18:01 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>> <tiis2q$cuj0$1@solani.org>:
>>
>>> Am 16.10.22 um 22:22 schrieb Snit:
>>>> On Oct 16, 2022 at 5:14:53 AM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
>>>>> Apple never ever proved it offers end-to-end encryption for any service.
>>>>
>>>> What would you accept as acceptable evidence?
>>>
>>> A Due Diligence by an independent, non-government and non-profit
>>> organization outside the USA.
>>>
>>> "Certified by the NSA" is certainly not sufficient.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>
>> So really not likely to accept anything as sufficient. Fair enough.
>
> Learn to read and learn to understand what you read.
> You obviously do not understand the message.

You are incorrect.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 17.10.22 um 08:31 schrieb Snit:
> --
> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
>
> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Your signature sucks.
Reduce it to 72 characters per line.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:36:06 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tiit4m$cvcl$2@solani.org>:

> Am 17.10.22 um 08:31 schrieb Snit:
>> --
>> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
>> use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
>> superior by attacking the messenger.
>>
>> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
>
> Your signature sucks.

Your opinion has been noted. Personally I think it is a good reminder of much
of what we see in too many Usenet groups. People too often try to tear others
down, largely because they do not feel good about themselves. It is one thing
to note specific inappropriate behavior, but so many people are clearly
hurting.

> Reduce it to 72 characters per line.

No.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Am 17.10.22 um 09:02 schrieb Snit:
> On Oct 16, 2022 at 11:36:06 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
> <tiit4m$cvcl$2@solani.org>:
>
>> Am 17.10.22 um 08:31 schrieb Snit:
>>> --
>>> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
>>> use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
>>> superior by attacking the messenger.
>>>
>>> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
>>
>> Your signature sucks.
>
> Your opinion has been noted. Personally I think it is a good reminder of much
> of what we see in too many Usenet groups. People too often try to tear others
> down, largely because they do not feel good about themselves. It is one thing
> to note specific inappropriate behavior, but so many people are clearly
> hurting.
>
>> Reduce it to 72 characters per line.
>
> No.

I will do that for you.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 17.10.22 um 09:02 schrieb Snit:
> Your opinion has been noted. Personally I think it is a good reminder of much
> of what we see in too many Usenet groups. People too often try to tear others
> down, largely because they do not feel good about themselves. It is one thing
> to note specific inappropriate behavior, but so many people are clearly
> hurting.
>
>> Reduce it to 72 characters per line.
>
> No.

https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 17/10/2022 10:03, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 17.10.22 um 09:02 schrieb Snit:
>> Your opinion has been noted. Personally I think it is a good reminder of much
>> of what we see in too many Usenet groups. People too often try to tear others
>> down, largely because they do not feel good about themselves. It is one thing
>> to note specific inappropriate behavior, but so many people are clearly
>> hurting.
>>
>>> Reduce it to 72 characters per line.
>>
>> No.
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

*That is a reference from THE LAST CENTURY*!