I need an Ar-15 to protect me from the government when they come to take my AR-15 away.

1. If you don't like a post, DON'T READ IT.

2. There are no words that will ease the pain of the families of those killed in any shooting incident.

3. As we watch our country become more and more destabilized by unchecked immigration, people who will need to be housed, fed, clothed, cared for medically and their children educated one must ask from where will the money come to do these things? Why are our poor, homeless and veterans ignored?

4. As we watch looting, rioting, burning and killing which goes unpunished, who will protect us when these actions come to our neighborhoods? The Supreme Court has already said the police have no duty to protect anyone other than those in custody, YOU are on your own. Do you want to be reloading your musket after every shot?

5. If you believe that any weapon issued to the military should be banned for civilian possession or usage, know that the 12 gauge shotgun has been issued and used by the military since its inception. The .38 caliber (S&W Military and Police) REVOLVER was my issued weapon during the Vietnam War.

6. Live is hard and then you die.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

> 1. If you don't like a post, DON'T READ IT.

If the information is not soaring related, DON'T POST IT.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 6:24:13 AM UTC-7, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 1. If you don't like a post, DON'T READ IT.
> If the information is not soaring related, DON'T POST IT.

I believe those of us who have heard an AK-47 fired in anger would agree that assault rifles belong on the battle field, not in the classroom, doctor’s office, grocery store, church, Walmart………….the list goes on and on!
Yes, some citizens were treated very badly at Ruby Ridge and Waco, but those tragedies are being repeated almost daily in the land of the free and home of the armed citizenry!
ENOUGH……….
JJ

You mean like open-minded folks who think men can have babies, and
there's 63 genders now? Who think that destroying cities in "mostly
peaceful riots" is OK, and that legalized shoplifting by gangs in CA is
just dandy? Like teaching little white kids that they're evil racists
just because they're white?

Sounds like you aren't on the right side of history, you're on the LEFT.

On 6/7/22 19:16, Ramy wrote:
> With very few exception the vast responds on this thread don’t surprise me when seeing other posts from the same folks. Anyway, to me it only makes me feel better being on the right side of history and live among open minded folks.
> Very well said Andy and few others. The rest, I wish you keep your opinions to yourself and talk about soaring instead. Indeed it is getting worse than the Monkey-Penis worshiper. I think I can guess his opinion. He sure enjoys his first amendment, at least that one doesn’t result in so many deaths.
>
> Ramy
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:32:54 PM UTC-7, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> This thread is worse than the Monkey-Sun-Penis one. And has NOTHING to do with soaring.
>>> Possibly a view from the LEFT?
>> No, a view from someone who thinks this newsgroup should be about soaring and soaring related topics. Not gun control, take that elsewhere.

You are confused, or spending too much time on facebook. I don’t know any person that fits your description. Yet I know many open minded folks.. Now to make it more soaring related, will be interesting to compare the type of flying that liberals folks are doing vs conservative folks. I’ll see if I can talk the OLC guys into adding a party affiliation to OLC ;)

Ramy

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 3:38:14 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> You mean like open-minded folks who think men can have babies, and
> there's 63 genders now? Who think that destroying cities in "mostly
> peaceful riots" is OK, and that legalized shoplifting by gangs in CA is
> just dandy? Like teaching little white kids that they're evil racists
> just because they're white?
>
> Sounds like you aren't on the right side of history, you're on the LEFT.
> On 6/7/22 19:16, Ramy wrote:
> > With very few exception the vast responds on this thread don’t surprise me when seeing other posts from the same folks. Anyway, to me it only makes me feel better being on the right side of history and live among open minded folks.
> > Very well said Andy and few others. The rest, I wish you keep your opinions to yourself and talk about soaring instead. Indeed it is getting worse than the Monkey-Penis worshiper. I think I can guess his opinion. He sure enjoys his first amendment, at least that one doesn’t result in so many deaths.
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:32:54 PM UTC-7, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> This thread is worse than the Monkey-Sun-Penis one. And has NOTHING to do with soaring.
> >>> Possibly a view from the LEFT?
> >> No, a view from someone who thinks this newsgroup should be about soaring and soaring related topics. Not gun control, take that elsewhere.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 11:18:01 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> You are confused, or spending too much time on facebook. I don’t know any person that fits your description. Yet I know many open minded folks. Now to make it more soaring related, will be interesting to compare the type of flying that liberals folks are doing vs conservative folks. I’ll see if I can talk the OLC guys into adding a party affiliation to OLC ;)
>
> Ramy
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 3:38:14 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> > You mean like open-minded folks who think men can have babies, and
> > there's 63 genders now? Who think that destroying cities in "mostly
> > peaceful riots" is OK, and that legalized shoplifting by gangs in CA is
> > just dandy? Like teaching little white kids that they're evil racists
> > just because they're white?
> >
> > Sounds like you aren't on the right side of history, you're on the LEFT..
> > On 6/7/22 19:16, Ramy wrote:
> > > With very few exception the vast responds on this thread don’t surprise me when seeing other posts from the same folks. Anyway, to me it only makes me feel better being on the right side of history and live among open minded folks.
> > > Very well said Andy and few others. The rest, I wish you keep your opinions to yourself and talk about soaring instead. Indeed it is getting worse than the Monkey-Penis worshiper. I think I can guess his opinion. He sure enjoys his first amendment, at least that one doesn’t result in so many deaths.
> > >
> > > Ramy
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:32:54 PM UTC-7, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> This thread is worse than the Monkey-Sun-Penis one. And has NOTHING to do with soaring.
> > >>> Possibly a view from the LEFT?
> > >> No, a view from someone who thinks this newsgroup should be about soaring and soaring related topics. Not gun control, take that elsewhere.
Can't we all just get along? Old Bob, The Purist

> Can't we all just get along? Old Bob, The Purist

Or better yet, move this conversation to talk.politics.guns. This group is for soaring topics.

On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 7:55:44 AM UTC-4, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Can't we all just get along? Old Bob, The Purist
> Or better yet, move this conversation to talk.politics.guns. This group is for soaring topics.
Hey gfbwi, soaring topics are really not at the top of the food chain lately, most want to discuss their AK47 and banana clips. The soaring season is coming into full swing out west and there is no mention of good flights or reports of harrowing landouts. Maybe it is time for a controversial soaring topic that rattles the dishes in the motor homes parked at Moriarity, or yet get the wonderful ladies of the WSPA all riled up. Now I am feeling better, even did a few tows this morning and just waiting for the VIEW to come on the screen so that I can enjoy my popcorn and cold beer. AS far as the conservatives vs the liberals in sailplane flights I am betting on the independents, they seem to stay in the groove much better. Old Bob, The Purist

On 6/9/22 12:05, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 7:55:44 AM UTC-4, gfbwi...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>> Can't we all just get along? Old Bob, The Purist
>> Or better yet, move this conversation to talk.politics.guns. This
>> group is for soaring topics.
> Hey gfbwi, soaring topics are really not at the top of the food
> chain late...
<rubbish assertion snipped>
> ...The soaring season is coming into full swing out west and there is
> no mention of good flights...
https://chessintheair.com/epic-first-ever-1000km-declared-fai-triangle-in-colorado/

Bob W.

P.S. Just because it's not on RAS means it isn't happening? I suppose
there's cage-rattling, and there's actually informing oneself about
genuine soaring accomplishments.

> Fortunately I live in Europe. No guns, no school massacres.

This kind of comments are pissing me off. Typical situation where a European is pretending to be better than the American. I suggest in all fairness to your ignorance, that you educate yourself about the subject before you make yourself a complete jackass again.

Op vrijdag 10 juni 2022 om 04:51:34 UTC+2 schreef ASM:
> > Fortunately I live in Europe. No guns, no school massacres.
>
> This kind of comments are pissing me off. Typical situation where a European is pretending to be better than the American. I suggest in all fairness to your ignorance, that you educate yourself about the subject before you make yourself a complete jackass again.
I am not pretending to be better. I just illustrate the situation.

On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:01:33 AM UTC-7, swinkelj wrote:
> Op vrijdag 10 juni 2022 om 04:51:34 UTC+2 schreef ASM:
> > > Fortunately I live in Europe. No guns, no school massacres.
> >
> > This kind of comments are pissing me off. Typical situation where a European is pretending to be better than the American. I suggest in all fairness to your ignorance, that you educate yourself about the subject before you make yourself a complete jackass again.
> I am not pretending to be better. I just illustrate the situation.

Wrong again. Before you illustrate anything make sure that your facts are true.

Some of us Europeans have learned a few details

700 mass shootings (of 4 or more people being shot) a year, 20,000 deaths from non-suicide use of guns. That 2 a day average is sustained, and there have been over 30 more incidents since the one in Uvalde

About as many guns in your country as people, but three-quarters don't own any.

The last and indeed only mass shooting in a UK school was over 25 years ago.. We average about 1 mass shooting per decade.

Someone on here tried diversion by saying ramming attacks with vehicles is an emerging European phenomenon, which doesn't happen in USA, but Colorado, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia, New York, Wisconsin, Maryland, Nevada, California, and others are in that country, and so were the Twin Towers, and so is the US Capitol in Washington DC.

Whatever happens to solve all this waste of life and national productivity, or doesn't, it's up to you folks, and we outsiders might indeed be mystified by some of it. Taking rhetorical sideswipes at separate subjects or independent observers elsewhere isn't going to help you.

On Friday, 10 June 2022 at 03:51:34 UTC+1, ASM wrote:
>
> This kind of comments are pissing me off. Typical situation where a European is pretending to be better than the American. I suggest in all fairness to your ignorance, that you educate yourself about the subject before you make yourself a complete jackass again.

Yes, there are more mass shootings in the USA than Europe, quite unfortunate but that being said I support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. Schools are supposed to be hardened and SROs are supposed to be present, the Uvalde situation should not have happened and would not have if the SRO was doing his job.

Of course Europe sees mass shootings too and when you do they are DOOSIES. Anders Breivik I believe was his name? Killed 77 people in Norway and got 21 years in prison. And then attackers in France killed 130 people including 90 at the Bataclan theatre. Another 416 people were injured, almost 100 critically. Seven of the attackers were also killed. Then there were the Madrid train bombings of 2004, and don't forget the attacks on Charlie Hebdo offices and a Jewish supermarket in Paris that killed 17 people. If someone wants to kill masses of people he will find a way.

Europe seems to import their crazies, we grow our own thank you. Most of our "mass" shooting are of the smaller categories, I think mass means 4 or more. Most of these are workplace violence, disgruntled workers who feel they were treated wrongly.

What I find amusing about the European system of permitting firearms is that in some countries "self defense" is not a legitimate reason for wanting a gun, I can think of no better a reason for wanting a firearm. As it is often said, God made man and Sam Colt made them all equal.

Be careful out there my friends, it's becoming a dangerous world.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-5, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> Yes, there are more mass shootings in the USA than Europe, quite unfortunate but that being said I support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. Schools are supposed to be hardened and SROs are supposed to be present, the Uvalde situation should not have happened and would not have if the SRO was doing his job.
>
> Of course Europe sees mass shootings too and when you do they are DOOSIES.. Anders Breivik I believe was his name? Killed 77 people in Norway and got 21 years in prison. And then attackers in France killed 130 people including 90 at the Bataclan theatre. Another 416 people were injured, almost 100 critically. Seven of the attackers were also killed. Then there were the Madrid train bombings of 2004, and don't forget the attacks on Charlie Hebdo offices and a Jewish supermarket in Paris that killed 17 people. If someone wants to kill masses of people he will find a way.
>
> Europe seems to import their crazies, we grow our own thank you. Most of our "mass" shooting are of the smaller categories, I think mass means 4 or more. Most of these are workplace violence, disgruntled workers who feel they were treated wrongly.
>
> What I find amusing about the European system of permitting firearms is that in some countries "self defense" is not a legitimate reason for wanting a gun, I can think of no better a reason for wanting a firearm. As it is often said, God made man and Sam Colt made them all equal.
>
> Be careful out there my friends, it's becoming a dangerous world.
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Just ban ammunition; then you can play with all the ARs & AKs you want (watch out for bayonet pokes in the eye!). 2A talks about arms, not ammunition - when written there was no self contained cased ammo - you had to roll your own. And it stresses regulation - so how about some training required before purchase & use, oh, kinda like a car or motorcycle? NRA used to do that kind of stuff IN SCHOOLS before they went over to the dark side.

Better yet, regulate the shit out of ammunition, and ID tag all bullets, cases, and powder so you know when, where, and who bought the ammo. That might help with all the pistol crime in the cities, which kill way more than school shootings (but of course mainly minorities, so less coverage...). You can run away with your gun, but good luck getting back all your bullets!

And I like guns - got a bunch of them in the house, been shooting all my life! And I totally understand owning a custom AR or a trick AK or a nice C&R Garand.

Kirk

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:17 PM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> "...but that being said I support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment..."

What gets me are comments like this, implying that you can't support the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment, background checks, making 30 round magazines illegal and other sane limits at the same time.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 3:38:38 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
> Some of us Europeans have learned a few details
>
> 700 mass shootings (of 4 or more people being shot) a year, 20,000 deaths from non-suicide use of guns. That 2 a day average is sustained, and there have been over 30 more incidents since the one in Uvalde
>
> About as many guns in your country as people, but three-quarters don't own any.
>
> The last and indeed only mass shooting in a UK school was over 25 years ago. We average about 1 mass shooting per decade.
>
> Someone on here tried diversion by saying ramming attacks with vehicles is an emerging European phenomenon, which doesn't happen in USA, but Colorado, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia, New York, Wisconsin, Maryland, Nevada, California, and others are in that country, and so were the Twin Towers, and so is the US Capitol in Washington DC.
>
> Whatever happens to solve all this waste of life and national productivity, or doesn't, it's up to you folks, and we outsiders might indeed be mystified by some of it. Taking rhetorical sideswipes at separate subjects or independent observers elsewhere isn't going to help you.
> On Friday, 10 June 2022 at 03:51:34 UTC+1, ASM wrote:
> >
> > This kind of comments are pissing me off. Typical situation where a European is pretending to be better than the American. I suggest in all fairness to your ignorance, that you educate yourself about the subject before you make yourself a complete jackass again.

Andy, you speak about the waste of life, yet say nothing about 600K plus per year in abortions, doesn't that rob the country of national productivity? Old Bob, The Purist

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 2:40:11 AM UTC-4, Tom Desjardins wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:17 PM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > "...but that being said I support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment..."
>
> What gets me are comments like this, implying that you can't support the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment, background checks, making 30 round magazines illegal and other sane limits at the same time.

I am fine with background checks, been thru many myself and recall if you will that Hunter Biden LIED on his application, a crime, which he got away with. I wonder WHY? Personally I don't care for 30 round magazines in any rifle due to the difficulty of going prone with one. A 10 or 20 is favorable and the liberal left want the 20 banned too. So you have a few 10 round mags and reloading takes 2-3 seconds if you are slow, at some point they will want those banned if they can't get the platform banned. The problem is at what point do you stop allowing your rights to be usurped? They want your AR15, your AK47 and all variants and at some point the liberal left will realize that the shotgun with one pull of the trigger can take out multiple opponents. My choice for home defense is a Mossberg 500A with #4 buck. (#4 SHOT is not the same BTW). Slugs are good too but require more precise aiming.

One thing that makes most belligerent countries hesitant to attempt a land take over of the USA is the unquestioned ability of the citizenry to respond with significant resistance. Switzerland makes every male citizen a soldier and this has stood the test of time for them quite well. If Russia ever decides to cross the border into Europe, (thus far their attempts at the Ukraine have not gone very well) Europeans will be yelling for the Americans and will gladly see them arrive with all their terrible ASSAULT RIFLES, civilian version or military grade. Yes, the next major conflict will result in nuclear destruction but there will still be survivors on both sides and ground warfare will become the norm.

Trump was right in insisting that European countries hold up their end of NATO with 2 percent of their GDP going to defense, many of whom were not doing so. It should not be a burden placed on the American service man and taxpayer to bail out Europe if Europe isn't willing to bear the majority of the burden.

Someone in a previous post mentioned the sound of the AK47. I have heard that sound and the .38 Aircrew Revolver I was issued didn't make me feel secure at all. I've been on the ground at two airbases in S Vietnam which came under attack and when the sapper comes thru the wire I want to be able to reach out and touch him at a distance, not wait until he is 35 yards away.

There are not easy answers folks, but instead of taking away rights guaranteed under the Constitution it seems a better idea to take precautionary measures to stop the perp at the gate. These measure are known and have been implemented at many schools throughout the country.

Now, who thinks wrestling is phony?

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

> Now, who thinks wrestling is phony?

What?? Wrestling is phony? Say it ain't so! It's on TV, it HAS to be real!

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:17:23 AM UTC-7, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > Now, who thinks wrestling is phony?
> What?? Wrestling is phony? Say it ain't so! It's on TV, it HAS to be real!

Well said Andy 1, some of us come under the broad category of Weapon Worshippers! They are very loud and live in fear of loosing their right to own weapons. Many, I’m sure have a loaded AR-15 behind the front door, ready for the day that Hillary comes to take their guns away………..and giving her what she’s got coming !!!

As I see it, these guys are not the problem, the real problem is the availability of weapons to any deranged 18 year old who can walk into a gun store and buy anything he wants………and the only questions asked are, would you like a banana clip with that AR-15? Seven clips? Sure, son, how about 1000 rounds of ammo? Have you seen our new line of body armor?
And the slaughter goes on, and on, and on, with little or nothing done about it!
,JJ

Follow the money.

The sharp rise in gun sales several decades ago was driven by a shift in marketing by gun manufacturers. For example, Beretta issued you a "Man Card" when you purchased one of their guns. Selling guns is a huge business, making lots of folks lots of money. The gun lobby and NRA, etc. rose in power, not to protect the 2nd amendment, but to protect the profits made off gun sales.

How do we turn the equation around? The first simple step is to require liability insurance for owning a gun. Insurance companies that choose to participate (and there will be many because of the huge market and the money to be made) will structure rates on how dangerous a particular weapon is, and on how much training the owner is willing to take. They will start to offer discounts for gun safes and gun locks, or belonging to a gun club that teaches gun safety. They will pour money into gun safety programs and messaging as well. And they will protect owners from liability in the event of an accident, lawful defense of the homestead, etc. Anything statistically more likely to cause a claim will cost more to insure. Maybe that's open carry, or having kids in the house, or maybe not- but facts will be used to make those decisions because money is involved. They will require you to have insurance before you can take possession of a gun, and how long that takes will be driven by the purchasers motivation to complete the application and pay the fee. Insurance companies will go after gun sellers that do not comply with the insurance law, and hold them accountable.

Notice that I have not mentioned one thing about gun laws or restricting ownership, or how many guns you can have, or what type of gun you can buy, or requiring a license. Notice also that this structure is very similar to other activities or devices that are inherently dangerous, like owning and driving a car, or flying a plane.

In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.

Matt

Op zondag 12 juni 2022 om 02:23:17 UTC+2 schreef waltco...@aol.com:
> Yes, there are more mass shootings in the USA than Europe, quite unfortunate but that being said I support the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. Schools are supposed to be hardened and SROs are supposed to be present, the Uvalde situation should not have happened and would not have if the SRO was doing his job.
>
> Of course Europe sees mass shootings too and when you do they are DOOSIES.. Anders Breivik I believe was his name? Killed 77 people in Norway and got 21 years in prison. And then attackers in France killed 130 people including 90 at the Bataclan theatre. Another 416 people were injured, almost 100 critically. Seven of the attackers were also killed. Then there were the Madrid train bombings of 2004, and don't forget the attacks on Charlie Hebdo offices and a Jewish supermarket in Paris that killed 17 people. If someone wants to kill masses of people he will find a way.
>
> Europe seems to import their crazies, we grow our own thank you. Most of our "mass" shooting are of the smaller categories, I think mass means 4 or more. Most of these are workplace violence, disgruntled workers who feel they were treated wrongly.
>
> What I find amusing about the European system of permitting firearms is that in some countries "self defense" is not a legitimate reason for wanting a gun, I can think of no better a reason for wanting a firearm. As it is often said, God made man and Sam Colt made them all equal.
>
> Be careful out there my friends, it's becoming a dangerous world.
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-us-gun-violence-world-comparison/

I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
will not have insurance.

Dan
5J

On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
> will not have insurance.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.

That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
JJ