On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:05:08 PM UTC-4, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
> > will not have insurance.
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > > In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.
> That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
> JJ
Not a great idea JJ, the facts speak for themselves. The NRA consist of 5 million DUES PAYING members, the NRA developed and implemented the best gun safety programs in the country today. All of the certified gun ranges and shooting courses that I have ever been involved with are all NRA certified with NRA certified instructors. Also, the NRA has the largest child safety program in the world for shooting. I would venture to say that none of these idiots that shoot up innocent people are NRA members or NRA certified. Prior to 1970 the NRA was a non- political organization and remained so until the liberal left tried to impose gun laws that were aimed at banning firearms. The NRA was the first civil rights organization in the United States,
Now getting insurance companies involved in gun safety or firearms control is ludicrous, maybe there should be a outreach of civic organizations developing neighborhood gun safety classes in cities like Chicago and New Orleans, Detroit, LA, Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston and I could go on and on.
Our 14 year old AVA Shelly who recently did her solo flight is a national shooting champion, and she is a member of the NRA! Also, a straight A student now visiting the Naval Academy with big plans for the future. I too have many guns, including an AK47, many pistols and long guns as well. I guess you think that this makes me some type of criminal that needs to be verified for gun ownership by some insurance company. .Contrary to what the lefties think, guns are not the problem, it is the idiots that do stupid things and you will never stop these idiots from doing their intended dirty deeds.
I am very much in favor of raising the legal age for gun purchasing and ownership, maybe we can raise the voting age as well, last time I looked the Democrats wanted to lower the voting age to 16 with no ID.
You want to fix this problem, fix the people first that is the problem. Old Bob, The Purist

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:05:08 PM UTC-4, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
> > will not have insurance.
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > > In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.
> That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
> JJ

Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance? Interesting. I'm sure insurance premiums would be quite high and people living paycheck to paycheck might be precluded from owning a means of self defense. Right now many are finding it hard to pay for gas and groceries.

I believe someone in a previous post suggested that the 2nd Amendment didn't cover ammunition? I'm quite confident that when the founding fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment it was understood that the right to keep and bear arms would include the means to make the weapon effective, ergo ammunition.

Personally I'd like to see the age to purchase any weapon raised to 21 or 25 and also to drink alcohol and vote. I'm a big proponent of training too, I've watched irresponsible adults with a new rifle or pistol or AR15 on the range not realize that they still have one in the chamber after they drop the magazine or not understanding that the rules require that you keep the muzzle pointed DOWN RANGE at all times. I had military training on the M16 and while not the same weapon the AF15 operates quite similarly. It is however NOT an ASSAULT RIFLE.

There are no easy answers but usurping rights of American Citizens is not the way to go. Have you noticed that when the AK47 raises its ugly head in Europe it's in the hands of terrorists?

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Dan & Walt,

The NRA is just doing what it was designed to do, including promoting gun safety, etc. as you point out. Perhaps they should offer legal liability protection to every NRA member that owns a gun for free. I would totally support that. It won't happen though. Why? Liability for the consequences of owning a gun would be too expensive for them to cover for free, because it is a huge liability. A liability that is currently ignored. In fact, the NRA does the exact opposite, coming to the legal defense of gun manufacturers that are sued for liable.

As for gun insurance being too expensive for those that can't afford gas, the free market will settle on a price that is APPROPRIATE for the coverage. You don't get to drive a car without insurance, even though it is a hardship as well. Take the bus until you can. Pick some other means of self defense like pepper spray until you can afford the gun+insurance. And no, no one assumes you are a criminal because you own lots of guns, but everyone, including the good guys should be liable for that ownership.

Matt

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:29:48 PM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:05:08 PM UTC-4, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
> > > will not have insurance.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > > > In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.
> > That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
> > JJ
> Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance? Interesting. I'm sure insurance premiums would be quite high and people living paycheck to paycheck might be precluded from owning a means of self defense. Right now many are finding it hard to pay for gas and groceries.
>
> I believe someone in a previous post suggested that the 2nd Amendment didn't cover ammunition? I'm quite confident that when the founding fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment it was understood that the right to keep and bear arms would include the means to make the weapon effective, ergo ammunition.
>
> Personally I'd like to see the age to purchase any weapon raised to 21 or 25 and also to drink alcohol and vote. I'm a big proponent of training too, I've watched irresponsible adults with a new rifle or pistol or AR15 on the range not realize that they still have one in the chamber after they drop the magazine or not understanding that the rules require that you keep the muzzle pointed DOWN RANGE at all times. I had military training on the M16 and while not the same weapon the AF15 operates quite similarly. It is however NOT an ASSAULT RIFLE.
>
> There are no easy answers but usurping rights of American Citizens is not the way to go. Have you noticed that when the AK47 raises its ugly head in Europe it's in the hands of terrorists?
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 2:42:43 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:05:08 PM UTC-4, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
> > > will not have insurance.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > > > In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.
> > That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
> > JJ
> Not a great idea JJ, the facts speak for themselves. The NRA consist of 5 million DUES PAYING members, the NRA developed and implemented the best gun safety programs in the country today. All of the certified gun ranges and shooting courses that I have ever been involved with are all NRA certified with NRA certified instructors. Also, the NRA has the largest child safety program in the world for shooting. I would venture to say that none of these idiots that shoot up innocent people are NRA members or NRA certified. Prior to 1970 the NRA was a non- political organization and remained so until the liberal left tried to impose gun laws that were aimed at banning firearms. The NRA was the first civil rights organization in the United States,
> Now getting insurance companies involved in gun safety or firearms control is ludicrous, maybe there should be a outreach of civic organizations developing neighborhood gun safety classes in cities like Chicago and New Orleans, Detroit, LA, Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston and I could go on and on.
> Our 14 year old AVA Shelly who recently did her solo flight is a national shooting champion, and she is a member of the NRA! Also, a straight A student now visiting the Naval Academy with big plans for the future. I too have many guns, including an AK47, many pistols and long guns as well. I guess you think that this makes me some type of criminal that needs to be verified for gun ownership by some insurance company. .Contrary to what the lefties think, guns are not the problem, it is the idiots that do stupid things and you will never stop these idiots from doing their intended dirty deeds.
> I am very much in favor of raising the legal age for gun purchasing and ownership, maybe we can raise the voting age as well, last time I looked the Democrats wanted to lower the voting age to 16 with no ID.
> You want to fix this problem, fix the people first that is the problem. Old Bob, The Purist

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country
Nothing is as obvious as some other posts would indicate.

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 10:16:52 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Dan & Walt,
>
> The NRA is just doing what it was designed to do, including promoting gun safety, etc. as you point out. Perhaps they should offer legal liability protection to every NRA member that owns a gun for free. I would totally support that. It won't happen though. Why? Liability for the consequences of owning a gun would be too expensive for them to cover for free, because it is a huge liability. A liability that is currently ignored. In fact, the NRA does the exact opposite, coming to the legal defense of gun manufacturers that are sued for liable.
>
> As for gun insurance being too expensive for those that can't afford gas, the free market will settle on a price that is APPROPRIATE for the coverage. You don't get to drive a car without insurance, even though it is a hardship as well. Take the bus until you can. Pick some other means of self defense like pepper spray until you can afford the gun+insurance. And no, no one assumes you are a criminal because you own lots of guns, but everyone, including the good guys should be liable for that ownership.
>
> Matt

Liable for ownership? What am I missing here? We are all responsible for our individual actions, insurance our not. Not sure what mass purchase of liability insurance would do to stem the tide of mass shootings. Do you think these school shooters would be buying liability insurance? How about the gang bangers who shoot each other daily in Chicago, NY, LA and other cesspool, Democratic run cities?

As for the NRA coming to the defense of gun manufacturers, manufacture of guns is a legally permitted industry. Is the auto industry sued each time a car kills someone? How about the booze industry? How about both of those industries when a drunk driver kills a family? No liability insurance would pay off for an intentional act like murder, mass or otherwise.

I'm not a member of the NRA and I would wager to say that gang bangers and school shooters are not either. For much of my life I have been an avid target shooter, hunted some but don't care for getting up before dawn to sit in a tree stand. Was qualified as Expert Marksman in the Air Force with the M16 and .38 aircrew revolver. What I would like to see is some training required for purchase of a firearm if you have not previous military training which is 90 percent of the buying public. This however might be considered an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 4:43:20 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 10:16:52 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > Dan & Walt,
> >
> > The NRA is just doing what it was designed to do, including promoting gun safety, etc. as you point out. Perhaps they should offer legal liability protection to every NRA member that owns a gun for free. I would totally support that. It won't happen though. Why? Liability for the consequences of owning a gun would be too expensive for them to cover for free, because it is a huge liability. A liability that is currently ignored. In fact, the NRA does the exact opposite, coming to the legal defense of gun manufacturers that are sued for liable.
> >
> > As for gun insurance being too expensive for those that can't afford gas, the free market will settle on a price that is APPROPRIATE for the coverage. You don't get to drive a car without insurance, even though it is a hardship as well. Take the bus until you can. Pick some other means of self defense like pepper spray until you can afford the gun+insurance. And no, no one assumes you are a criminal because you own lots of guns, but everyone, including the good guys should be liable for that ownership.
> >
> > Matt
> Liable for ownership? What am I missing here? We are all responsible for our individual actions, insurance our not. Not sure what mass purchase of liability insurance would do to stem the tide of mass shootings. Do you think these school shooters would be buying liability insurance? How about the gang bangers who shoot each other daily in Chicago, NY, LA and other cesspool, Democratic run cities?
>
> As for the NRA coming to the defense of gun manufacturers, manufacture of guns is a legally permitted industry. Is the auto industry sued each time a car kills someone? How about the booze industry? How about both of those industries when a drunk driver kills a family? No liability insurance would pay off for an intentional act like murder, mass or otherwise.
>
> I'm not a member of the NRA and I would wager to say that gang bangers and school shooters are not either. For much of my life I have been an avid target shooter, hunted some but don't care for getting up before dawn to sit in a tree stand. Was qualified as Expert Marksman in the Air Force with the M16 and .38 aircrew revolver. What I would like to see is some training required for purchase of a firearm if you have not previous military training which is 90 percent of the buying public. This however might be considered an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Well, let’s see now, Matt comes up with a way for most gun owners to keep all their guns and the second amendment cloud doesn’t like it? Didn’t see that coming! Come on guys, the SSA requires liability insurance to fly your glider in their events, even the AMA provides liability insurance for me when flying model airplanes! Not sure exactly what the gun insurance would cover, but I’d bet a homeowner with no kids and a gun safe wouldn’t break the bank to purchase gun ownership liability insurance. Any insurance guys out there give us an idea what could be covered and how much?
JJ

PS, the AR-15 isn’t a an assault rifle, but it damned sure uses assault rifle ammunition that tumbles and breaks up when hitting soft tissue!

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 8:03:32 AM UTC-5, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 2:40:11 AM UTC-4, Tom Desjardins wrote:
....
> One thing that makes most belligerent countries hesitant to attempt a land take over of the USA is the unquestioned ability of the citizenry to respond with significant resistance.
....
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Really? You don't think nuclear missiles and a military that is larger than the next 10 largest militaries in the world combined don't have something to do with that?

Rich L.

Gee, Matt, to follow your logic I must assume that there are no
uninsured motorists on the road. There can't be because the law
requires liability insurance to register a car.

So I guess you believe that the same people who drive without insurance
will actually buy insurance to own a firearm. You would just punish law
abiding citizens with such stupid suggestions.

Dan
5J

On 6/12/22 20:16, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Dan & Walt,
>
> The NRA is just doing what it was designed to do, including promoting gun safety, etc. as you point out. Perhaps they should offer legal liability protection to every NRA member that owns a gun for free. I would totally support that. It won't happen though. Why? Liability for the consequences of owning a gun would be too expensive for them to cover for free, because it is a huge liability. A liability that is currently ignored. In fact, the NRA does the exact opposite, coming to the legal defense of gun manufacturers that are sued for liable.
>
> As for gun insurance being too expensive for those that can't afford gas, the free market will settle on a price that is APPROPRIATE for the coverage. You don't get to drive a car without insurance, even though it is a hardship as well. Take the bus until you can. Pick some other means of self defense like pepper spray until you can afford the gun+insurance. And no, no one assumes you are a criminal because you own lots of guns, but everyone, including the good guys should be liable for that ownership.
>
> Matt
>
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:29:48 PM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:05:08 PM UTC-4, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 12:01:00 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> I guarantee you that the demented douche bag that shoots at innocents
>>>> will not have insurance.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> 5J
>>>> On 6/12/22 10:36, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
>>>>> In short, if you make it profitable to increase gun safety, reduce mass shootings, etc., it will happen. Follow the money. Everyone else does.
>>> That’s a great idea, Matt, but it would have to be implemented at the State level…………. No way that would get past our NRA owned Senate! Make a gun buyer show he’s got gun ownership insurance before he can buy! Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance…………….I’ll bet half our 400 million guns would be turned in rather than the possibility of being found guilty of uninsured gun ownership!
>>> JJ
>> Make it a felony to own a gun and not have insurance? Interesting. I'm sure insurance premiums would be quite high and people living paycheck to paycheck might be precluded from owning a means of self defense. Right now many are finding it hard to pay for gas and groceries.
>>
>> I believe someone in a previous post suggested that the 2nd Amendment didn't cover ammunition? I'm quite confident that when the founding fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment it was understood that the right to keep and bear arms would include the means to make the weapon effective, ergo ammunition.
>>
>> Personally I'd like to see the age to purchase any weapon raised to 21 or 25 and also to drink alcohol and vote. I'm a big proponent of training too, I've watched irresponsible adults with a new rifle or pistol or AR15 on the range not realize that they still have one in the chamber after they drop the magazine or not understanding that the rules require that you keep the muzzle pointed DOWN RANGE at all times. I had military training on the M16 and while not the same weapon the AF15 operates quite similarly. It is however NOT an ASSAULT RIFLE.
>>
>> There are no easy answers but usurping rights of American Citizens is not the way to go. Have you noticed that when the AK47 raises its ugly head in Europe it's in the hands of terrorists?
>> Walt Connelly
>> Former Tow Pilot
>> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Why on earth do the NRA and others keep touting Switzerland as an example, when the circumstances are so different?

Switzerland has less than one mass shooting per decade. The murder rate is nearly zero. The number of guns is decreasing.

Find out a bit more about their regulatory systems and citizens having far more self-discipline than yours, instead of the lame apologies the problem is too difficult and there is nothing you can do.

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2?r=US&IR=T#gun-sellers-follow-strict-licensing-procedures-7

On Sunday, 12 June 2022 at 14:03:32 UTC+1, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> One thing that makes most belligerent countries hesitant to attempt a land take over of the USA is the unquestioned ability of the citizenry to respond with significant resistance. Switzerland makes every male citizen a soldier and this has stood the test of time for them quite well.

Link to the top of that article, rather than the other one coming to halfway down

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2?r=US&IR=T

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 2:30:41 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Gee, Matt, to follow your logic I must assume that there are no
> uninsured motorists on the road. There can't be because the law
> requires liability insurance to register a car.
>
> So I guess you believe that the same people who drive without insurance
> will actually buy insurance to own a firearm. You would just punish law
> abiding citizens with such stupid suggestions.

Regardless of how effective this idea is, I'm not following your logic here.. People will always break the law and drive (or own a weapon) without insurance. Are you claiming that's a reason not to pass requirements and limits? Do you believe that requiring people to have liability insurance to drive is punishment?

Don't follow my logic?

What is so difficult to understand? Do you really think that the
requirement for liability insurance would prevent someone from shooting
up the work place, mall, school, church, etc., if he got that idea into
his head?

I can see that there is no benefit to continuing this discussion so I'll
bow out.

Dan
5J

On 6/13/22 16:10, Tom Desjardins wrote:
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 2:30:41 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Gee, Matt, to follow your logic I must assume that there are no
>> uninsured motorists on the road. There can't be because the law
>> requires liability insurance to register a car.
>>
>> So I guess you believe that the same people who drive without insurance
>> will actually buy insurance to own a firearm. You would just punish law
>> abiding citizens with such stupid suggestions.
>
> Regardless of how effective this idea is, I'm not following your logic here. People will always break the law and drive (or own a weapon) without insurance. Are you claiming that's a reason not to pass requirements and limits? Do you believe that requiring people to have liability insurance to drive is punishment?

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 4:46:52 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Don't follow my logic?
>
> What is so difficult to understand? Do you really think that the
> requirement for liability insurance would prevent someone from shooting
> up the work place, mall, school, church, etc., if he got that idea into
> his head?
>
> I can see that there is no benefit to continuing this discussion so I'll
> bow out.
>
> Dan
> 5J

I pointing out the illogic of the ridiculous argument I've heard from more than a few extreme gun advocates, that we can't add new restrictions like limits on magazine capacities and age limits for example because criminals won't comply with them.

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 7:46:52 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Don't follow my logic?
>
> What is so difficult to understand? Do you really think that the
> requirement for liability insurance would prevent someone from shooting
> up the work place, mall, school, church, etc., if he got that idea into
> his head?
>
> I can see that there is no benefit to continuing this discussion so I'll
> bow out.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 6/13/22 16:10, Tom Desjardins wrote:
> > On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 2:30:41 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> Gee, Matt, to follow your logic I must assume that there are no
> >> uninsured motorists on the road. There can't be because the law
> >> requires liability insurance to register a car.
> >>
> >> So I guess you believe that the same people who drive without insurance
> >> will actually buy insurance to own a firearm. You would just punish law
> >> abiding citizens with such stupid suggestions.
> >
> > Regardless of how effective this idea is, I'm not following your logic here. People will always break the law and drive (or own a weapon) without insurance. Are you claiming that's a reason not to pass requirements and limits? Do you believe that requiring people to have liability insurance to drive is punishment?
I too Dan have decided to digress from this thread, some ideas are interesting and others are the same old BS. Yet the cause of such horrible acts of violence is seldom discussed. The lefties will use any means possible to blame anything but the cause, they want to blame the NRA, gun Mfg's, ammo Mfg's. If people would look into the private lives of the attackers families they might find the probable cause.
Until the next good topic of discussion comes along I will close by saying that I still carry my concealed weapon in my ASW27 and Eileen also a permit holder carries one with her in the ASW24, you never know when you will encounter a CRAZY! Old Bob, The Purist

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 10:08:15 AM UTC-4, richali...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 8:03:32 AM UTC-5, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 2:40:11 AM UTC-4, Tom Desjardins wrote:
> ...
> > One thing that makes most belligerent countries hesitant to attempt a land take over of the USA is the unquestioned ability of the citizenry to respond with significant resistance.
> ...
> > Walt Connelly
> > Former Tow Pilot
> > Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
> Really? You don't think nuclear missiles and a military that is larger than the next 10 largest militaries in the world combined don't have something to do with that?
>
> Rich L.

I believe you have been misinformed as to the size of our military. The latest Defense White Paper shows China with over 2 million men in uniform while the USA has 1.35 million. China has a larger number of soldiers, sailors and airmen and combined with Russia they greatly outnumber us. Our advantage is in technology which is stolen wholesale by the Chinese. Where we do outstrip them is in spending and I hope we are getting all for which we are paying. In addition our logistics and training appears superior.

The nuclear missile deterrent means nothing to a deranged madman in charge of a country with no checks and balances but it is intuitively understood that a physical invasion of the territory of the USA would be futile considering the numbers of citizens with the means to resist such a force. There will be survivors on both sides after a nuclear attack. The purpose of war for an aggressor in general is to acquire land and resources.

Have a nice day.
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

It is amazing how both sides of any argument/discussion can feel they are right. The bottom line is the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms, or keep an armed bear or bare our behinds as many of us have done.

Biden likes to say that Americans are in favor of sensible gun laws but he doesn't point out exactly what those laws might be. In the end I am sure his purpose is to disarm the entire populace. We are lucky we have a Constitution.

I carry a 2 million dollar blanket policy in addition to my house insurance (have you ever read the exclusions and limitations on these policies?) and have a policy with CCW SAFE which provides legal assistance in case one needs to defend ones self with a firearm. Coming from a family of lawyers these policies were strongly suggested to me.

I believe I have made my position abundantly clear. I still think wrestling is phony.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 6:19:31 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> It is amazing how both sides of any argument/discussion can feel they are right. The bottom line is the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms, or keep an armed bear or bare our behinds as many of us have done.
>
> Biden likes to say that Americans are in favor of sensible gun laws but he doesn't point out exactly what those laws might be. In the end I am sure his purpose is to disarm the entire populace. We are lucky we have a Constitution.
>
> I carry a 2 million dollar blanket policy in addition to my house insurance (have you ever read the exclusions and limitations on these policies?) and have a policy with CCW SAFE which provides legal assistance in case one needs to defend ones self with a firearm. Coming from a family of lawyers these policies were strongly suggested to me.
>
> I believe I have made my position abundantly clear. I still think wrestling is phony.
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

I agree, everyone's positions on the limits of the 2nd are pretty much set in stone. Biden is just reflecting Americans long stymied desire for sensible gun laws and his proposals have been quite clear. Look at what he's actually proposing, not paranoid fantasies put forth by gun manufactures, their lobbyists, FOX news and the NRA. There're extremists on both sides, some who want an outright ban on all guns and others who want the right to carry full auto long guns. Neither will ever happen. This is my last post on this thread. We are lucky we have a Constitution and very lucky we have the means to amend it.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 7:55:35 PM UTC-4, Tom Desjardins wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 6:19:31 AM UTC-7, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> > It is amazing how both sides of any argument/discussion can feel they are right. The bottom line is the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms, or keep an armed bear or bare our behinds as many of us have done.
> >
> > Biden likes to say that Americans are in favor of sensible gun laws but he doesn't point out exactly what those laws might be. In the end I am sure his purpose is to disarm the entire populace. We are lucky we have a Constitution.
> >
> > I carry a 2 million dollar blanket policy in addition to my house insurance (have you ever read the exclusions and limitations on these policies?) and have a policy with CCW SAFE which provides legal assistance in case one needs to defend ones self with a firearm. Coming from a family of lawyers these policies were strongly suggested to me.
> >
> > I believe I have made my position abundantly clear. I still think wrestling is phony.
> > Walt Connelly
> > Former Tow Pilot
> > Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
> I agree, everyone's positions on the limits of the 2nd are pretty much set in stone. Biden is just reflecting Americans long stymied desire for sensible gun laws and his proposals have been quite clear. Look at what he's actually proposing, not paranoid fantasies put forth by gun manufactures, their lobbyists, FOX news and the NRA. There're extremists on both sides, some who want an outright ban on all guns and others who want the right to carry full auto long guns. Neither will ever happen. This is my last post on this thread. We are lucky we have a Constitution and very lucky we have the means to amend it.

Biden's "proposals" have been to ban "assault rifles" without adequately defining the term. In the eyes of the liberal left an assault rifle is an assault rifle because they say it is. It's a scary looking rifle I heard one pundit say. They also want to ban "high capacity" magazines, defined as any magazine holding more than 10 rounds which would make many commonly owned handguns illegal which is what happened in the People's Republic of California. Don't think for a moment that confiscation isn't on their list. Beto O'Rourke has plainly said that was HIS goal.

I'm fine with background checks and after having run a few on friends I was considering selling a gun to (Instant Checkmate or Been Verified) I opted not to do so. You would be surprised at those whom you know in your social circle who are wife beaters and substance abusers among other things. Even GLIDER PILOTS.

Wait until they find out that a 12 gauge shotgun can take out 3-4 people with one pull of the trigger, it will be on the list.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

> I'm fine with background checks and after having run a few on friends I was considering selling a gun to (Instant Checkmate or Been Verified) I opted not to do so. You would be surprised at those whom you know in your social circle who are wife beaters and substance abusers among other things. Even GLIDER PILOTS.

We need more people with your opinions in the Republican congress !
Both parties should agree to what you suggested

Dan G

God knows that this will fall on deaf ears but ...
the Uvalde tragedy and gun control discussions have only
the very barest of associations with soaring
and doesn't belong here on RAS. Try rec.guns instead.

My 0.02. EOL

John (OHM)

On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 5:59:07 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:14:54 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > God knows that this will fall on deaf ears but ...
> > the Uvalde tragedy and gun control discussions have only
> > the very barest of associations with soaring
> > and doesn't belong here on RAS. Try rec.guns instead.
> >
> > My 0.02. EOL
> >
> > John (OHM)
> We are all humans with emotions - expressing them is better than acting upon them.
>
> Tom

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-25/norwegian-police-say-2-killed-in-mass-shooting-in-oslo

On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 12:19:09 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
> On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 5:59:07 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:14:54 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > > God knows that this will fall on deaf ears but ...
> > > the Uvalde tragedy and gun control discussions have only
> > > the very barest of associations with soaring
> > > and doesn't belong here on RAS. Try rec.guns instead.
> > >
> > > My 0.02. EOL
> > >
> > > John (OHM)
> > We are all humans with emotions - expressing them is better than acting upon them.
> >
> > Tom
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-25/norwegian-police-say-2-killed-in-mass-shooting-in-oslo

Well John DeRosa OHM, apparently you have met too much resistance but there is a lot of gliding/soaring in Norway I sure. Yes, we have more mass shootings in the USofA compared to European countries and other geographical areas, unfortunate to say the least. If there is one common thread among these actions it would most likely be mental illness. Mental illness knows no boundaries, exists in every ethnicity, country, state, whatever and always will. Even in a weapons restricted environment if one want to find a way to cause mass casualties, one will. Add religious indoctrination to mental illness and you have a very potent problem.

I have many friends in Europe, mostly in Sweden and Switzerland and they tell me that unchecked mass migration seems to be the driving culprit. We are experiencing the same situation here in the land of the free and the home of the brave and it's only a matter of time until we see the end result of a clash of cultures. When those who come here and see what the haves have and they, the have nots have not, well you can decide for yourself. We have done an amazing job cultivating our own nut cases and don't need any help importing same.

Keep your eyes open, your back to the wall and always have an exit strategy. Anyone who spent the evening in a cafe in Saigon in the 60s and 70s will understand.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 8:36:21 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 12:19:09 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 5:59:07 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:14:54 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > > > God knows that this will fall on deaf ears but ...
> > > > the Uvalde tragedy and gun control discussions have only
> > > > the very barest of associations with soaring
> > > > and doesn't belong here on RAS. Try rec.guns instead.
> > > >
> > > > My 0.02. EOL
> > > >
> > > > John (OHM)
> > > We are all humans with emotions - expressing them is better than acting upon them.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-25/norwegian-police-say-2-killed-in-mass-shooting-in-oslo
>
>
> Well John DeRosa OHM, apparently you have met too much resistance but there is a lot of gliding/soaring in Norway I sure. Yes, we have more mass shootings in the USofA compared to European countries and other geographical areas, unfortunate to say the least. If there is one common thread among these actions it would most likely be mental illness. Mental illness knows no boundaries, exists in every ethnicity, country, state, whatever and always will. Even in a weapons restricted environment if one want to find a way to cause mass casualties, one will. Add religious indoctrination to mental illness and you have a very potent problem.
>
> I have many friends in Europe, mostly in Sweden and Switzerland and they tell me that unchecked mass migration seems to be the driving culprit. We are experiencing the same situation here in the land of the free and the home of the brave and it's only a matter of time until we see the end result of a clash of cultures. When those who come here and see what the haves have and they, the have nots have not, well you can decide for yourself. We have done an amazing job cultivating our own nut cases and don't need any help importing same.
>
> Keep your eyes open, your back to the wall and always have an exit strategy. Anyone who spent the evening in a cafe in Saigon in the 60s and 70s will understand.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Walt, explaining things to liberals never works, they have a different look at reality. Only yesterday Roe vs Wade was overturned and the liberal medial has gone ballistic primarily because they do not understand the constitution. Yes, Norway has been invaded by illegal migration of people primarily from Arabic countries, once a country of 7 million has seen an influx of fanatics. I visit Norway, go to Oslo and then head North of the Arctic Circle to Narvik and beyond, a great place of beauty. Old Bob, The Purist

The territory now known as United States of America has hundreds of years of history of immigration from the rest of the world. It is not unknown for its surviving indigenous peoples to occasionally satirically joke that America discovered Columbus, and he was lost..

Can you truly be suggesting that all this migration has created and concentrated the murderous problems you have there, more than exist in the countries your ancestors departed from? What might be a solution to this, send them all home? Where to?

On Saturday, 25 June 2022 at 13:36:21 UTC+1, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Well John DeRosa OHM, apparently you have met too much resistance but there is a lot of gliding/soaring in Norway I sure. Yes, we have more mass shootings in the USofA compared to European countries and other geographical areas, unfortunate to say the least. If there is one common thread among these actions it would most likely be mental illness. Mental illness knows no boundaries, exists in every ethnicity, country, state, whatever and always will. Even in a weapons restricted environment if one want to find a way to cause mass casualties, one will. Add religious indoctrination to mental illness and you have a very potent problem.
>
> I have many friends in Europe, mostly in Sweden and Switzerland and they tell me that unchecked mass migration seems to be the driving culprit. We are experiencing the same situation here in the land of the free and the home of the brave and it's only a matter of time until we see the end result of a clash of cultures. When those who come here and see what the haves have and they, the have nots have not, well you can decide for yourself. We have done an amazing job cultivating our own nut cases and don't need any help importing same.
>
> Keep your eyes open, your back to the wall and always have an exit strategy. Anyone who spent the evening in a cafe in Saigon in the 60s and 70s will understand.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 2:05:03 AM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
> The territory now known as United States of America has hundreds of years of history of immigration from the rest of the world. It is not unknown for its surviving indigenous peoples to occasionally satirically joke that America discovered Columbus, and he was lost..
>
> Can you truly be suggesting that all this migration has created and concentrated the murderous problems you have there, more than exist in the countries your ancestors departed from? What might be a solution to this, send them all home? Where to?
> On Saturday, 25 June 2022 at 13:36:21 UTC+1, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Well John DeRosa OHM, apparently you have met too much resistance but there is a lot of gliding/soaring in Norway I sure. Yes, we have more mass shootings in the USofA compared to European countries and other geographical areas, unfortunate to say the least. If there is one common thread among these actions it would most likely be mental illness. Mental illness knows no boundaries, exists in every ethnicity, country, state, whatever and always will. Even in a weapons restricted environment if one want to find a way to cause mass casualties, one will. Add religious indoctrination to mental illness and you have a very potent problem.
> >
> > I have many friends in Europe, mostly in Sweden and Switzerland and they tell me that unchecked mass migration seems to be the driving culprit. We are experiencing the same situation here in the land of the free and the home of the brave and it's only a matter of time until we see the end result of a clash of cultures. When those who come here and see what the haves have and they, the have nots have not, well you can decide for yourself. We have done an amazing job cultivating our own nut cases and don't need any help importing same.
> >
> > Keep your eyes open, your back to the wall and always have an exit strategy. Anyone who spent the evening in a cafe in Saigon in the 60s and 70s will understand.
> >
> > Walt Connelly
> > Former Tow Pilot
> > Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

There was a time when immigrants came here legally, presented themselves at the proper port of entry, identified themselves and where they were going. They also had to be examined medically to see if they were harboring any diseases that might disqualify them from entry, many did so and were turned away to return to their country of origin. During this time there were no government programs to house, feed, clothe, educate and give them medical care. My grandfather showed up speaking English and with a skill which got him a job the first day. My grandmother did the same, a trained nurse from Ireland.

Today we are accepting hundreds of thousands if not millions of unknowns from all over the world who are flooding across the southern border. IF they are caught they are given a court date for their immigration hearing the VAST majority of which will not show up. They are not political refugees, they are economic refugees and it is we, the taxpayer of the USofA who is left to foot the bill.

We also have STUDENTS who arrive on a student visa but don't go to school, work off the books, violate our laws, thumb their noses at the rest of us and get away with it. When you start ignoring the law you cease to be a nation of laws. When chaos is the order of the day there will be no order.

Europe has become a shit hole, ask any Swede who lives in Malmo. The Prime Minister has acknowledge that immigration has failed, there are parallels societies in conflict with each other. I have a personal friend who will tell you that it is worse than the authorities acknowledge. Recently more than 100 police were injured in riots with immigrant gangs. London is experiencing similar problems as do many other European cities. The Supreme Court of the USofA has said that OUR police have no duty to protect American citizens, only those in custody.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot