On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 3/20/2022 5:42 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 21:27:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>
>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>
>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>
>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>
>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Royal Deer? Is one required to say something like. "Pardon. My Lord"
>>> before running into them?
>>>
>>> (see Jeff, humor even in "word play" (:-)
>>>
>>
>> Why not royal deer? The Crown owns 'the swans upon the waters'.
>>
>In the medieval period, only the king could hunt deer, others could be
>invited to hunt with him, and was a few who where allowed to have Forrest’s
>ie hunting areas.
>
>Roger Merriman

Not exactly, at least in the 12th and 13th centuries. There were
"Royal Forests" during that period, about 1/3rd of England, which were
restricted for the King's use. See
https://www.sarahwoodbury.com/forest-laws/
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2022 5:42 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 21:27:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> Royal Deer? Is one required to say something like. "Pardon. My Lord"
>>>> before running into them?
>>>>
>>>> (see Jeff, humor even in "word play" (:-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why not royal deer? The Crown owns 'the swans upon the waters'.
>>>
>> In the medieval period, only the king could hunt deer, others could be
>> invited to hunt with him, and was a few who where allowed to have Forrest’s
>> ie hunting areas.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Not exactly, at least in the 12th and 13th centuries. There were
> "Royal Forests" during that period, about 1/3rd of England, which were
> restricted for the King's use. See
> https://www.sarahwoodbury.com/forest-laws/

That link seems a bit confused, while it’s true that William didn’t invade
wales, as such, the Normans certainly did simply later. hence the castles
Wales is famously over castled!

And Forests ie open hunting ground which was owned by the king lasted
centuries only opened up really quite late, ie the london Royal parks right
to access and cross from 1734 at least for Bushy Park.

Roger merriman

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>> California.
> >>>
> >>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> >>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>
> >>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> >>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> >>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> >>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>
> >>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> >>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>
> >>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> >>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> >>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
> >>>
> >>>
> >> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> >> deer are fairly calm.
> >>
> >> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >
> > Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> > to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> > encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >
> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>
> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>
> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again..

Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > >>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> > >>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> > >>> California.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> > >>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> > >>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> > >>>
> > >>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> > >>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> > >>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> > >>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> > >>>
> > >>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> > >>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> > >>>
> > >>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> > >>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> > >>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> > >> deer are fairly calm.
> > >>
> > >> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> > >
> > > Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> > > to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> > > encounter and that was far more than enough.
> > >
> > In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> > tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> > kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> > which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> > are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >
> > Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >
> > About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
Deer and herds

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>> California.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>
>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>
>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>
>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>
>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>
>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>
> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads
> of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of
> breeding and their protector.
> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local
> park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here
> is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross.
> The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway
> with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I
> was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite
> certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>
Unless it’s rutting season bucks tend not to be with the does, and
generally aren’t protective, they defend against other bucks. Than wolfs
etc.

Doe’s will defend their young if you viewed as a threat, bucks only if you
ignore all warnings and get between a Buck in rutt! Red deer are fairly
large so potentially dangerous. In the wild you’ll not get with in a few
miles, let alone feet!

The fallow is smaller and also wild proper in the woods but rarely see them
and even then briefly from a distance.

Roger Merriman

On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>
>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>
>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>
>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>
>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> Deer and herds
>

And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>
>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>>>>> want
>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>
>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>>>> will
>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
>>>> will and do
>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
>>>> of Red deer
>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>>>> the parks
>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>
>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>
>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>>>> again.
>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>> Deer and herds
>>
>
> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.

Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> >>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> >>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> >>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> >>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> >>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> >>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> >>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> >>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >>>>
> >>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> >>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> >>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>
> >>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> >>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> >>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> >>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> >>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>
> >>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >>>
> >>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> >> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> >> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> > Deer and herds
> >
> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.

https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg

Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> >>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> >>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> >>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> >>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> >>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> >>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> >>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> >>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >>>>
> >>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> >>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> >>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>
> >>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> >>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> >>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> >>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> >>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>
> >>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >>>
> >>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> >> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> >> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> > Deer and herds
> >
> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.

I see you are telling me I misspelled Champagne. I am really tired this morning from 450 miles in two days. I did 25 miles and had an average speed under 11 mph. There was a small wind but it felt hurricane strength. I hope I feel better on Thursday when I'm going on a group ride over the Richmond Bridge. Not to mention that tomorrow I have an appointment with the Neurologist for a yearly checkup. I had a blood test and it looked about the same as always. With an abnormally low red and white blood cell count and the measure of the medication just under toxic. There are some people here that believe that they are gifted in the English language. Not you, Andrew, who are more apt to hint rather than make snide remarks.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 1:07:40 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> > >>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> > >>>>>> California.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> > >>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> > >>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> > >>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> > >>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> > >>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> > >>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> > >>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> > >>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you.."
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> > >>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> > >>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> > >>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> > >>>>
> > >>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> > >>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> > >>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> > >>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> > >>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> > >>>
> > >>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> > >>>
> > >>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> > >> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> > >> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> > > Deer and herds
> > >
> > And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
> I see you are telling me I misspelled Champagne. I am really tired this morning from 450 miles in two days. I did 25 miles and had an average speed under 11 mph. There was a small wind but it felt hurricane strength. I hope I feel better on Thursday when I'm going on a group ride over the Richmond Bridge. Not to mention that tomorrow I have an appointment with the Neurologist for a yearly checkup. I had a blood test and it looked about the same as always. With an abnormally low red and white blood cell count and the measure of the medication just under toxic. There are some people here that believe that they are gifted in the English language. Not you, Andrew, who are more apt to hint rather than make snide remarks.
I just went out to bring the bike in and discovered why I'm so beat - the rear brake was dragging really hard from the midway coffee stop. I must have bumped it. I had one set or another of Campy brakes that would self center after you put them on so that you didn't have to worry about this sort of thing. There must be some way to keep Campy skeleton brakes from doing that.

On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>> Deer and herds
>>>
>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>
> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>
> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>

I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
It isn't funny, it's expensive.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/22/2022 3:07 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>> Deer and herds
>>>
>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>
> I see you are telling me I misspelled Champagne. I am really tired this morning from 450 miles in two days. I did 25 miles and had an average speed under 11 mph. There was a small wind but it felt hurricane strength. I hope I feel better on Thursday when I'm going on a group ride over the Richmond Bridge. Not to mention that tomorrow I have an appointment with the Neurologist for a yearly checkup. I had a blood test and it looked about the same as always. With an abnormally low red and white blood cell count and the measure of the medication just under toxic. There are some people here that believe that they are gifted in the English language. Not you, Andrew, who are more apt to hint rather than make snide remarks.
>

I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings.

Since _you_ rectified 'deer' and 'herds' I added 'champagne'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 3:36:09 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>>>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> >>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> >>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> >>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> >>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> >>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> >>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> >>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you.."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> >>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> >>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> >>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> >>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> >>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> >>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> >>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> >>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> >>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> >>> Deer and herds
> >>>
> >> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
> >
> > https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
> > https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
> > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
> >
> > Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
> >
> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
> It isn't funny, it's expensive.

I have never been unable to miss animals on the roads. Though I can see that our marvelous illegal alien Californians purposely swerve to kill any animal that wanders not just out into the roads but even if they are almost about across the street and hopping up on the curb. Just on my block there have been 3 or 4 cats laying up on the curb obviously hit by cars at high speed.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>>>>> will
>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
>>>>> will and do
>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>>>>> the parks
>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>>>>> again.
>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>> Deer and herds
>>>
>>
>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>
>Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.

But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
of way, does it not? (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:18:42 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> On 3/20/2022 5:42 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 21:27:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can?t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don?t control them, it?s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> Royal Deer? Is one required to say something like. "Pardon. My Lord"
>>>>> before running into them?
>>>>>
>>>>> (see Jeff, humor even in "word play" (:-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why not royal deer? The Crown owns 'the swans upon the waters'.
>>>>
>>> In the medieval period, only the king could hunt deer, others could be
>>> invited to hunt with him, and was a few who where allowed to have Forrest?s
>>> ie hunting areas.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Not exactly, at least in the 12th and 13th centuries. There were
>> "Royal Forests" during that period, about 1/3rd of England, which were
>> restricted for the King's use. See
>> https://www.sarahwoodbury.com/forest-laws/
>
>That link seems a bit confused, while it’s true that William didn’t invade
>wales, as such, the Normans certainly did simply later. hence the castles
>Wales is famously over castled!
>

Well, of course I'm not from England but I do read that "The conquest
of Wales by Edward I took place between 1277 and 1283". A bit later
then the Norman conquest of England, I believe. 1066?

>And Forests ie open hunting ground which was owned by the king lasted
>centuries only opened up really quite late, ie the london Royal parks right
>to access and cross from 1734 at least for Bushy Park.
>
>Roger merriman
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>
>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>
>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>
>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>
>
>I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>It isn't funny, it's expensive.

When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/22/2022 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>
>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>
>>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>>
>>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>>
>>
>> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
>
> When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
> run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
> dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
> while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
>

You have those deadly bright green snakes. We have deer:
https://wnanews.com/2020/02/17/driving-northwoods-deer/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:56:57 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/22/2022 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>>
>>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>>>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>>> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
>>
>> When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
>> run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
>> dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
>> while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
>>
>
>You have those deadly bright green snakes. We have deer:
>https://wnanews.com/2020/02/17/driving-northwoods-deer/

A bit of a change in subject, but remember when automobiles had actual
"bumpers".

For the younger readers these were horizontal devices mounted on the
front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto in the event
of a crash.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/22/2022 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:56:57 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2022 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>>>>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>>>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>>>> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
>>>
>>> When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
>>> run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
>>> dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
>>> while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
>>>
>>
>> You have those deadly bright green snakes. We have deer:
>> https://wnanews.com/2020/02/17/driving-northwoods-deer/
>
> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when automobiles had actual
> "bumpers".
>
> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices mounted on the
> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto in the event
> of a crash.
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
>

My cars are 1965 Chevrolets all of which have hefty chromed
bumpers. Deer smack those up on their way to the other bodywork.

One might argue that modern auto bumpers and trim are less
substantial and that they're exponentially more expensive to
replace (cameras, sensors, various plastic things which are
steel on my cars, etc) and that would make a valid point.

But there's no way to have a pleasant deer meeting at
highway speed. Yes car-deer human deaths are steady year to
year although fewer than bicycle deaths:
https://cascadecollision.com/blog/car-accidents-involving-deer-facts/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:56:57 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/22/2022 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>>
>>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>>>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>>> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
>>
>> When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
>> run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
>> dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
>> while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
>>
>
>You have those deadly bright green snakes. We have deer:
>https://wnanews.com/2020/02/17/driving-northwoods-deer/

Green snakes and elephants too (:-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg5sFkZf4v8
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/22/2022 9:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when automobiles had actual
>> "bumpers".
>>
>> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices mounted on the
>> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto in the event
>> of a crash.
>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/

About the lack of bumpers: Our 2014 Mazda's nose was dented (barely)
while parked at a restaurant. Luckily, the guy who did the damage was
upstanding enough to leave a detailed note, and to phone his insurance
agent. By the time I called his agent, they knew what happened and
promised it would be fully covered.

And it was, by replacing the entire plastic front piece of the car's
body. And painting the replacement to match, which required a flashy
three layer paint job to duplicate Mazda's super-flashy paint. I never
heard what the total cost was, but I'm sure it was far from cheap.

> My cars are 1965 Chevrolets all of which have hefty chromed bumpers.
> Deer smack those up on their way to the other bodywork.
>
> One might argue that modern auto bumpers and trim are less substantial
> and that they're exponentially more expensive to replace (cameras,
> sensors, various plastic things which are steel on my cars, etc) and
> that would make a valid point.
>
> But there's no way to have a pleasant deer meeting at highway speed. Yes
> car-deer human deaths are steady year to year although fewer than
> bicycle deaths:
> https://cascadecollision.com/blog/car-accidents-involving-deer-facts/

My life now involves a surprising amount of dusk or dark driving on
rural roads. I've had my close calls with deer, the closest being an
actual hit, but of the most minor kind. I braked hard and heard a loud
whack, but the deer ran off and the car had not even a mark. I guess I
hit the deer's hind leg as it was almost out of my path. That was lucky.
I have close friends who totaled cars by hitting deer.

The book _Deerland_ by Al Cambronne covers every aspect of whitetail
deer, including what to do if one appears in front of your car. A body
shop guy with lots of experience said "Hit the damn deer." Apparently
people get into much worse trouble (like head-on collisions or running
into trees) by trying to avoid the deer.

But I'll note that the article Mr. Muzi linked blamed the deer vs. car
conflict on horny bucks. (Note that antlers are different from horns.)
I'd say that's only part of the problem. My very near bike vs. deer
incident was with a young fawn. And I've had a doe walk across a two
lane road with heavy traffic, then stop in front of me with her front
feet barely on the shoulder, her back feet and hindquarters well into
the lane.

WTD have large, tasty bodies but they seem to have very tiny brains.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/22/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
>>>>>> will and do
>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
>>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>>>>>> the parks
>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>>>>>> again.
>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>
>>>
>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>
>> Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>
> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
> of way, does it not? (:-)

Interesting question! Too bad our lawyers have abandoned the group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2022-03-22, John B <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
>>>>>> will and do
>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
>>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>>>>>> the parks
>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>>>>>> again.
>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>
>>>
>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>
>>Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>
> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
> of way, does it not? (:-)

Only if they were lactating does...then they would have right of whey.

pH

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 04:00:26 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:

>On 2022-03-22, John B <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>>>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>>>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>>>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>>>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie canâ??t go up to them, and they
>>>>>>> will and do
>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks donâ??t control them, itâ??s a mix
>>>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>>>>>>> the parks
>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>
>>>Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>>
>> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
>> of way, does it not? (:-)
>
>Only if they were lactating does...then they would have right of whey.
>
>pH

But only from curd to curd.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:18:42 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/20/2022 5:42 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 21:27:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can?t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don?t control them, it?s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Royal Deer? Is one required to say something like. "Pardon. My Lord"
>>>>>> before running into them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (see Jeff, humor even in "word play" (:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not royal deer? The Crown owns 'the swans upon the waters'.
>>>>>
>>>> In the medieval period, only the king could hunt deer, others could be
>>>> invited to hunt with him, and was a few who where allowed to have Forrest?s
>>>> ie hunting areas.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Not exactly, at least in the 12th and 13th centuries. There were
>>> "Royal Forests" during that period, about 1/3rd of England, which were
>>> restricted for the King's use. See
>>> https://www.sarahwoodbury.com/forest-laws/
>>
>> That link seems a bit confused, while it’s true that William didn’t invade
>> wales, as such, the Normans certainly did simply later. hence the castles
>> Wales is famously over castled!
>>
>
> Well, of course I'm not from England but I do read that "The conquest
> of Wales by Edward I took place between 1277 and 1283". A bit later
> then the Norman conquest of England, I believe. 1066?

Misreading history there, the Marcher Lords moved/started moving into wales
from 1067, With for then new technology of the Mott and Bailey castles or
any castles.

And the Norman Castles are the biggest visible Norman legacy since every
town (bar the valley which didn’t exist until 1830 or so) has one or
remains of.

Roger Merriman
>
>> And Forests ie open hunting ground which was owned by the king lasted
>> centuries only opened up really quite late, ie the london Royal parks right
>> to access and cross from 1734 at least for Bushy Park.
>>
>> Roger merriman