John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 19:56:57 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2022 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
>>>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
>>>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
>>>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
>>>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
>>>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
>>>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>>>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
>>>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
>>>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them,
>>>>>>>>> it’s a mix of Red deer
>>>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
>>>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
>>>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>>>>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the
>>>>>>>> source of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>>>>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a
>>>>>>>> turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers
>>>>>>>> normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and
>>>>>>>> stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those
>>>>>>>> antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him
>>>>>>>> but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have
>>>>>>>> been a quite grizzly death.
>>>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
>>>>> https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
>>>>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
>>>> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
>>>
>>> When I was living in Georgia I once saw a "wreck" where some bloke had
>>> run into a fully grown pig, apparently at some speed. The pig was
>>> dead, of course, but laying there didn't have any apparent damage
>>> while the whole front of the car was collapsed.
>>>
>>
>> You have those deadly bright green snakes. We have deer:
>> https://wnanews.com/2020/02/17/driving-northwoods-deer/
>
> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when automobiles had actual
> "bumpers".
>
> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices mounted on the
> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto in the event
> of a crash.
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/

My car essentially still has them, old Volvo estate, it’s something of
state of the ark does though have a CD player!

Roger Merriman

On 3/22/2022 9:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 9:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/22/2022 8:11 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when
>>> automobiles had actual
>>> "bumpers".
>>>
>>> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices
>>> mounted on the
>>> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto
>>> in the event
>>> of a crash.
>>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
>
> About the lack of bumpers: Our 2014 Mazda's nose was dented
> (barely) while parked at a restaurant. Luckily, the guy who
> did the damage was upstanding enough to leave a detailed
> note, and to phone his insurance agent. By the time I called
> his agent, they knew what happened and promised it would be
> fully covered.
>
> And it was, by replacing the entire plastic front piece of
> the car's body. And painting the replacement to match, which
> required a flashy three layer paint job to duplicate Mazda's
> super-flashy paint. I never heard what the total cost was,
> but I'm sure it was far from cheap.
>
>> My cars are 1965 Chevrolets all of which have hefty
>> chromed bumpers. Deer smack those up on their way to the
>> other bodywork.
>>
>> One might argue that modern auto bumpers and trim are less
>> substantial and that they're exponentially more expensive
>> to replace (cameras, sensors, various plastic things which
>> are steel on my cars, etc) and that would make a valid point.
>>
>> But there's no way to have a pleasant deer meeting at
>> highway speed. Yes car-deer human deaths are steady year
>> to year although fewer than bicycle deaths:
>> https://cascadecollision.com/blog/car-accidents-involving-deer-facts/
>>
>
> My life now involves a surprising amount of dusk or dark
> driving on rural roads. I've had my close calls with deer,
> the closest being an actual hit, but of the most minor kind.
> I braked hard and heard a loud whack, but the deer ran off
> and the car had not even a mark. I guess I hit the deer's
> hind leg as it was almost out of my path. That was lucky. I
> have close friends who totaled cars by hitting deer.
>
> The book _Deerland_ by Al Cambronne covers every aspect of
> whitetail deer, including what to do if one appears in front
> of your car. A body shop guy with lots of experience said
> "Hit the damn deer." Apparently people get into much worse
> trouble (like head-on collisions or running into trees) by
> trying to avoid the deer.
>
> But I'll note that the article Mr. Muzi linked blamed the
> deer vs. car conflict on horny bucks. (Note that antlers are
> different from horns.) I'd say that's only part of the
> problem. My very near bike vs. deer incident was with a
> young fawn. And I've had a doe walk across a two lane road
> with heavy traffic, then stop in front of me with her front
> feet barely on the shoulder, her back feet and hindquarters
> well into the lane.
>
> WTD have large, tasty bodies but they seem to have very tiny
> brains.
>

+1
Deer make dairy cows look smart.

Maybe not statistically significant but I've hit more does
and fawns than bucks- can't say I've noticed any clear
pattern among them.

+1 on deer driving habits. Here, every teen is drilled on
driving in snow and admonished to never swerve for a deer.
You'll probably survive a deer hit but probably not a tree
crash.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/22/2022 9:22 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom
>>>>> Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger
>>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail
>>>>>>>>>> in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course
>>>>>>>>>> lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and
>>>>>>>>>> afterward went
>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old
>>>>>>>>>> railroad line
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow
>>>>>>>>>> in time, I was
>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and
>>>>>>>>>> stopped, and
>>>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along
>>>>>>>>>> the trail and
>>>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at
>>>>>>>>>> about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow
>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or
>>>>>>>>>> something that
>>>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your
>>>>>>>>>> left" when passing
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to
>>>>>>>>>> say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at
>>>>>>>>> night, royal
>>>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug
>>>>>>>>> attached!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you
>>>>>>>> sure as hell don't
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck.
>>>>>>>> I had one close
>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are
>>>>>>> used to folks, so
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up
>>>>>>> to them, and they
>>>>>>> will and do
>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control
>>>>>>> them, it’s a mix
>>>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are
>>>>>>> smaller. Since
>>>>>>> the parks
>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though
>>>>>>> only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I
>>>>>>> see just now and
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they
>>>>>> are in small
>>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who
>>>>>> is the source
>>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends
>>>>>> sharply through a
>>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I
>>>>>> cam around a turn
>>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers
>>>>>> normally park
>>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood
>>>>>> in the middle
>>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers
>>>>>> pointed directly
>>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by
>>>>>> inches and at my
>>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite
>>>>>> grizzly death.
>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>
>>> Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>>
>> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them
>> the right
>> of way, does it not? (:-)
>
> Interesting question! Too bad our lawyers have abandoned the
> group.
>

in re deer crossings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLc9rkcXdY

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:00:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2022-03-22, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>>>>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
> >>>>>>>>> for a
> >>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
> >>>>>>>>> on my
> >>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
> >>>>>>>>> yelled
> >>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
> >>>>>>>>> passing
> >>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
> >>>>>>>>> She was
> >>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
> >>>>>>>>> could not
> >>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
> >>>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
> >>>>>>>> parks so
> >>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
> >>>>>>> want
> >>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> >>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
> >>>>>> will
> >>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
> >>>>>> will and do
> >>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
> >>>>>> of Red deer
> >>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
> >>>>>> the parks
> >>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
> >>>>>> again.
> >>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
> >>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
> >>>>> of breeding and their protector.
> >>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
> >>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
> >>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
> >>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
> >>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
> >>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
> >>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> >>>> Deer and herds
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
> >>
> >>Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
> >
> > But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
> > of way, does it not? (:-)
> Only if they were lactating does...then they would have right of whey.
>
> pH

It isn't in the least surprising that Slocum completely missed the point. Other that the one on top of his neck. Since there was a crosswalk there it was a parking area and there was heavy human traffic. And yet that small herd of deer with a buck were crossing right there. And I, knowing that was heavily populated wasn't worried in the least about animals of that size being in the roadway and hence came around the turn leading down the hill at probably 35 mph. Slocum with his head right there on the problem really caught that one didn't he. That's because despite his presence here he is not a bicyclist. Which seems to be a common trait of those making really stupid comments here.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 5:57:39 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 9:22 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/22/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom
> >>>>> Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger
> >>>>>> Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>> Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail
> >>>>>>>>>> in Idaho and
> >>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course
> >>>>>>>>>> lots of deer in
> >>>>>>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and
> >>>>>>>>>> afterward went
> >>>>>>>>>> for a
> >>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old
> >>>>>>>>>> railroad line
> >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow
> >>>>>>>>>> in time, I was
> >>>>>>>>>> on my
> >>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and
> >>>>>>>>>> stopped, and
> >>>>>>>>>> yelled
> >>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along
> >>>>>>>>>> the trail and
> >>>>>>>>>> passing
> >>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at
> >>>>>>>>>> about 15MPH.
> >>>>>>>>>> She was
> >>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow
> >>>>>>>>>> though.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or
> >>>>>>>>>> something that
> >>>>>>>>>> could not
> >>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your
> >>>>>>>>>> left" when passing
> >>>>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to
> >>>>>>>>>> say "passing you."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at
> >>>>>>>>> night, royal
> >>>>>>>>> parks so
> >>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug
> >>>>>>>>> attached!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you
> >>>>>>>> sure as hell don't
> >>>>>>>> want
> >>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck.
> >>>>>>>> I had one close
> >>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are
> >>>>>>> used to folks, so
> >>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up
> >>>>>>> to them, and they
> >>>>>>> will and do
> >>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control
> >>>>>>> them, it’s a mix
> >>>>>>> of Red deer
> >>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are
> >>>>>>> smaller. Since
> >>>>>>> the parks
> >>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though
> >>>>>>> only fleetingly.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I
> >>>>>>> see just now and
> >>>>>>> again.
> >>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they
> >>>>>> are in small
> >>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who
> >>>>>> is the source
> >>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
> >>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends
> >>>>>> sharply through a
> >>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I
> >>>>>> cam around a turn
> >>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers
> >>>>>> normally park
> >>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood
> >>>>>> in the middle
> >>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers
> >>>>>> pointed directly
> >>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by
> >>>>>> inches and at my
> >>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite
> >>>>>> grizzly death.
> >>>>> Deer and herds
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
> >>>
> >>> Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
> >>
> >> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them
> >> the right
> >> of way, does it not? (:-)
> >
> > Interesting question! Too bad our lawyers have abandoned the
> > group.
> >
> in re deer crossings:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLc9rkcXdY
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I didn't realize that Kragowski was really a woman!

On 3/23/2022 5:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when automobiles had actual
>> "bumpers".
>>
>> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices mounted on the
>> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto in the event
>> of a crash.
>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
>
> My car essentially still has them, old Volvo estate, it’s something of
> state of the ark does though have a CD player!

CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best friends was
forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a cell phone ran into her
at speed while our friend was stopped at a red light.

Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy CD
collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has no CD player.
It wants her to load her music collection onto her smart phone, then
Bluetooth into her car's stereo system. But my friend refuses to carry
any cell phone, not even a flip phone.

So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive, plugged it into
her car's USB port and showed her how to access it. It works after a
fashion, provided one doesn't want to listen to a particular recording
at a particular time.

Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/23/2022 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 9:22 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/22/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom
>>>>>> Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger
>>>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail
>>>>>>>>>>> in Idaho and
>>>>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course
>>>>>>>>>>> lots of deer in
>>>>>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and
>>>>>>>>>>> afterward went
>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old
>>>>>>>>>>> railroad line
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow
>>>>>>>>>>> in time, I was
>>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and
>>>>>>>>>>> stopped, and
>>>>>>>>>>> yelled
>>>>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along
>>>>>>>>>>> the trail and
>>>>>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at
>>>>>>>>>>> about 15MPH.
>>>>>>>>>>> She was
>>>>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow
>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or
>>>>>>>>>>> something that
>>>>>>>>>>> could not
>>>>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your
>>>>>>>>>>> left" when passing
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to
>>>>>>>>>>> say "passing you."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at
>>>>>>>>>> night, royal
>>>>>>>>>> parks so
>>>>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug
>>>>>>>>>> attached!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you
>>>>>>>>> sure as hell don't
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck.
>>>>>>>>> I had one close
>>>>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are
>>>>>>>> used to folks, so
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up
>>>>>>>> to them, and they
>>>>>>>> will and do
>>>>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control
>>>>>>>> them, it’s a mix
>>>>>>>> of Red deer
>>>>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are
>>>>>>>> smaller. Since
>>>>>>>> the parks
>>>>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though
>>>>>>>> only fleetingly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I
>>>>>>>> see just now and
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they
>>>>>>> are in small
>>>>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who
>>>>>>> is the source
>>>>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>>>>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends
>>>>>>> sharply through a
>>>>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I
>>>>>>> cam around a turn
>>>>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers
>>>>>>> normally park
>>>>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood
>>>>>>> in the middle
>>>>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers
>>>>>>> pointed directly
>>>>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by
>>>>>>> inches and at my
>>>>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite
>>>>>>> grizzly death.
>>>>>> Deer and herds
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>>>>
>>>> Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>>>
>>> But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them
>>> the right
>>> of way, does it not? (:-)
>>
>> Interesting question! Too bad our lawyers have abandoned the
>> group.
>>
>
> in re deer crossings:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLc9rkcXdY

That's a classic.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/23/2022 5:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when
>>> automobiles had actual
>>> "bumpers".
>>>
>>> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices
>>> mounted on the
>>> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto
>>> in the event
>>> of a crash.
>>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
>>
>> My car essentially still has them, old Volvo estate,
>> it’s something of
>> state of the ark does though have a CD player!
>
> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
> stopped at a red light.
>
> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
> even a flip phone.
>
> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>
> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>
>

Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car
a few years ago, same model as the one I gave her which she
wore out. New version has a super duper electronics array
which senses and integrates with her hearing aids and Apple
telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her at the lot
explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as
I sat in my car reading the paper.

That was the only time she turned on any of those features,
can't remember any of it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>> stopped at a red light.
>>
>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>> even a flip phone.
>>
>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>
>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>
>>
>
> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
> car reading the paper.
>
> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
> remember any of it.

As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.

Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
buttons, she could not set the cruise.

Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
Fashionable! But... why?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>
>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>> even a flip phone.
>>>
>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>> car reading the paper.
>>
>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>> remember any of it.
>
>As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>
>Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>
>Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>Fashionable! But... why?

But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
necessity?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:36:22 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/23/2022 5:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A bit of a change in subject, but remember when
>>>> automobiles had actual
>>>> "bumpers".
>>>>
>>>> For the younger readers these were horizontal devices
>>>> mounted on the
>>>> front and rear of an auto to protect the body of the auto
>>>> in the event
>>>> of a crash.
>>>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1931-ford-model-a-17/
>>>
>>> My car essentially still has them, old Volvo estate,
>>> it’s something of
>>> state of the ark does though have a CD player!
>>
>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>> stopped at a red light.
>>
>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>> even a flip phone.
>>
>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>
>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>
>>
>
>Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car
>a few years ago, same model as the one I gave her which she
>wore out. New version has a super duper electronics array
>which senses and integrates with her hearing aids and Apple
>telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her at the lot
>explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as
>I sat in my car reading the paper.
>
>That was the only time she turned on any of those features,
>can't remember any of it.

We went through the same procedure with my wife's new (well 2 years
old now) car and she forgot all of it and amazingly has been happily
getting along with nothing but the brake, accelerator, steering wheel
and gear lever ever since. Oh yes, I forgot the rear view mirror (:-)

Amazing all the things that you don't need (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 07:01:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:00:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>> On 2022-03-22, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 3/22/2022 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
>> >>>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
>> >>>>>>>>> California.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went
>> >>>>>>>>> for a
>> >>>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
>> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was
>> >>>>>>>>> on my
>> >>>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and
>> >>>>>>>>> yelled
>> >>>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and
>> >>>>>>>>> passing
>> >>>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH.
>> >>>>>>>>> She was
>> >>>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that
>> >>>>>>>>> could not
>> >>>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing
>> >>>>>>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you."
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal
>> >>>>>>>> parks so
>> >>>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't
>> >>>>>>> want
>> >>>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
>> >>>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so
>> >>>>>> will
>> >>>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they
>> >>>>>> will and do
>> >>>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix
>> >>>>>> of Red deer
>> >>>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since
>> >>>>>> the parks
>> >>>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and
>> >>>>>> again.
>> >>>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small
>> >>>>> heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source
>> >>>>> of breeding and their protector.
>> >>>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a
>> >>>>> local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn
>> >>>>> and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park
>> >>>>> and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle
>> >>>>> of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly
>> >>>>> at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my
>> >>>>> speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
>> >>>> Deer and herds
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
>> >>
>> >>Which is not to mention many, many other similar mistakes.
>> >
>> > But Frank, the deer were on a "CROSSWALK" which gives them the right
>> > of way, does it not? (:-)
>> Only if they were lactating does...then they would have right of whey.
>>
>> pH
>
>It isn't in the least surprising that Slocum completely missed the point. Other that the one on top of his neck. Since there was a crosswalk there it was a parking area and there was heavy human traffic. And yet that small herd of deer with a buck were crossing right there. And I, knowing that was heavily populated wasn't worried in the least about animals of that size being in the roadway and hence came around the turn leading down the hill at probably 35 mph. Slocum with his head right there on the problem really caught that one didn't he. That's because despite his presence here he is not a bicyclist. Which seems to be a common trait of those making really stupid comments here.

Well, lets see.
"Since there was a crosswalk there it was a parking area"??

Really? Crosswalks are only found in areas where there are parking
areas? Strange but I see them far more often in city areas where there
are no parking areas.

"came around the turn leading down the hill at probably 35 mph"??

And suppose there had been people on the crosswalk? Would you just
have run into them? And if not why run into a deer?

Your "logic" is, not flawed, but rather non existent.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 07:57:34 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLc9rkcXdY

I've seen "Deer Crossing" signs in both Maine and New Hampshire... but
I never saw any one slow when driving by them (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>>
>>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>>> even a flip phone.
>>>>
>>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>>> car reading the paper.
>>>
>>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>>> remember any of it.
>>
>> As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>> screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>> and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>> least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>> commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>>
>> Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>> There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>> thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>> separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>> buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>>
>> Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>> just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>> Fashionable! But... why?
>
> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
> necessity?

Very little is needed to be honest, but it’s one of the few toys on the old
Volvo, assuming it’s a reasonably clear motorway, it’s handy to just hold
speed which largely is what other cars are doing.

Helps that is an auto probably as well, so it will change gear if needed.

It’s most useful thinking about it, in the average speed cameras areas to
make sure you don’t drift over, as a surprisingly number of folks don’t
understand the concept…

Roger Merriman.

On 3/23/2022 7:01 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>>
>>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>>> even a flip phone.
>>>>
>>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>>> car reading the paper.
>>>
>>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>>> remember any of it.
>>
>> As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>> screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>> and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>> least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>> commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>>
>> Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>> There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>> thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>> separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>> buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>>
>> Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>> just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>> Fashionable! But... why?
>
> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
> necessity?

I'd say it's a luxury for most people. But there are some people who
should be forced to use it.

I have two friends with whom I hate to ride. On hour long freeway rides,
their speed fluctuates from five below to five above the speed limit,
totally at random. They seem to lack the ability to keep speed constant.
I actually ask them to engage speed control.

That behavior by others drives me crazy when I'm driving, too. I
frequently joke to my wife "I'm so inspirational!" What I mean is this:
My cruise control is set for the limit. I come up on someone driving
maybe five miles per hour slower, so I signal and change to the left
(passing) lane. As I come up next to them, they suddenly accelerate. I
think what happens is my presence reminds them they can go faster, so
they do...

.... until they lose attention and drop back down again. Many times that
happens exactly as they're passing a slower truck, so I'm stuck behind
them until they wake up again.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 00:10:40 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>>>> even a flip phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>>>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>>>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>>>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>>>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>>>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>>>> car reading the paper.
>>>>
>>>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>>>> remember any of it.
>>>
>>> As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>>> screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>>> and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>>> least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>>> commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>>>
>>> Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>>> There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>>> thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>>> separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>>> buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>>>
>>> Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>>> just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>>> Fashionable! But... why?
>>
>> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
>> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
>> necessity?
>
>Very little is needed to be honest, but it’s one of the few toys on the old
>Volvo, assuming it’s a reasonably clear motorway, it’s handy to just hold
>speed which largely is what other cars are doing.
>
>Helps that is an auto probably as well, so it will change gear if needed.
>
>It’s most useful thinking about it, in the average speed cameras areas to
>make sure you don’t drift over, as a surprisingly number of folks don’t
>understand the concept…
>
>Roger Merriman.

I think that you are rationalizing. Or at least I've been driving for
70 years or so and never had a problem manually controlling the
vehicle speed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 5:36:09 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 2:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 9:42:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/22/2022 11:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:02:48 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:27:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:19:17 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> In the past I've encountered a moose on the trail in Idaho and
> >>>>>>>> alligators on the trail in Florida, and of course lots of deer in
> >>>>>>>> California.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Friday I was in San Ramon for a conference and afterward went for a
> >>>>>>>> ride on the Iron Horse trail which follows an old railroad line
> >>>>>>>> <https://www.ebparks.org/trails/interpark/iron-horse>.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Someone ran into a cow, literally. I saw the cow in time, I was on my
> >>>>>>>> Dahon Speed TR and was going probably 10 MPH, and stopped, and yelled
> >>>>>>>> "cow" to a woman who was riding pretty fast along the trail and passing
> >>>>>>>> me on an eBike and obviously not paying attention.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> She gave me the finger and plowed into the cow at about 15MPH. She was
> >>>>>>>> shaken up but uninjured. Not sure about the cow though.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I should have yelled "watch out" or "stop" or something that could not
> >>>>>>>> be misinterpreted. It's like yelling "on your left" when passing someone
> >>>>>>>> and they move to the left, where it's better to say "passing you.."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One of my colleagues managed to ride into a deer at night, royal parks so
> >>>>>>> deer are fairly calm.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Described it as riding into a wall with a wet rug attached!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Actual deer in the wild are hardly calm. And you sure as hell don't want
> >>>>>> to even look like you're going to ride into a Buck. I had one close
> >>>>>> encounter and that was far more than enough.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> In fairness the royal deer are wild just they are used to folks, so will
> >>>>> tolerate people within reason ie can’t go up to them, and they will and do
> >>>>> kill occasionally dogs if folks don’t control them, it’s a mix of Red deer
> >>>>> which are fairly large things and Fallow which are smaller. Since the parks
> >>>>> are old hunting parks, hence their size.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Out in the woods, do see deer occasionally though only fleetingly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About the rarest for myself is the Muntjac which I see just now and again.
> >>>> Here the dear are wild and it appears to me that they are in small heads of up to a dozen or so does and a adult male who is the source of breeding and their protector.
> >>>> To repeat a previous experience. A road descends sharply through a local park and I was coming down pretty fast when I cam around a turn and here is a herd of deer in a CROSSWALK where hikers normally park and cross. The Buck looked and saw me coming and stood in the middle of my pathway with his head dawn and those antlers pointed directly at me. Luckily I was able to avoid him but only by inches and at my speed I'm quite certain it would have been a quite grizzly death.
> >>> Deer and herds
> >>>
> >> And 'champagne' which is not right next to Urbana.
> >
> > https://www.sfbaywildlife.info/species/tule_elk.htm
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_deer
> > https://worlddeer.org/fallow-deer/
> > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blacktail+deer&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coniferousforest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2FPictures-of-Black-Tailed-Deer.jpg
> >
> > Which one of these would you like to hit at speed?
> >
> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
> It isn't funny, it's expensive.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've hit a deer or two in my driving life. Mom and brother have hit them too. But thankfully none of us ever had one of those broadside hits where you cut the deer's legs out and its body flies into the windshield. All of our hits were just hits along the fenders and sides of the cars. But I think the worst part of deer/car accidents is from the driver swerving to miss hitting the deer. Hitting the deer just causes car damage and dead deer. But swerving to avoid the deer causes live deer and the car hitting head on with the car in the other lane or going nose first into a ditch or turning lots of circles on the road and flipping. Its best to just run the deer over, not try to miss the deer. That is where the real harm comes from.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:12:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/23/2022 7:01 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>>>> even a flip phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>>>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>>>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>>>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>>>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>>>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>>>> car reading the paper.
>>>>
>>>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>>>> remember any of it.
>>>
>>> As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>>> screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>>> and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>>> least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>>> commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>>>
>>> Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>>> There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>>> thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>>> separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>>> buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>>>
>>> Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>>> just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>>> Fashionable! But... why?
>>
>> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
>> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
>> necessity?
>
>I'd say it's a luxury for most people. But there are some people who
>should be forced to use it.
>
>I have two friends with whom I hate to ride. On hour long freeway rides,
>their speed fluctuates from five below to five above the speed limit,
>totally at random. They seem to lack the ability to keep speed constant.
>I actually ask them to engage speed control.
>
>That behavior by others drives me crazy when I'm driving, too. I
>frequently joke to my wife "I'm so inspirational!" What I mean is this:
>My cruise control is set for the limit. I come up on someone driving
>maybe five miles per hour slower, so I signal and change to the left
>(passing) lane. As I come up next to them, they suddenly accelerate. I
>think what happens is my presence reminds them they can go faster, so
>they do...
>
>... until they lose attention and drop back down again. Many times that
>happens exactly as they're passing a slower truck, so I'm stuck behind
>them until they wake up again.

I think that cruse control should be banned. If you are going to drive
a big heavy 2 ton vehicle at a velocity of, say 5,000 feet/minute,
then I truly believe that the operator should be paying attention to
what is happening.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:01:51 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
> >>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
> >>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
> >>> stopped at a red light.
> >>>
> >>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
> >>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
> >>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
> >>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
> >>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
> >>> even a flip phone.
> >>>
> >>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
> >>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
> >>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
> >>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
> >> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
> >> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
> >> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
> >> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
> >> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
> >> car reading the paper.
> >>
> >> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
> >> remember any of it.
> >
> >As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
> >screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
> >and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
> >least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
> >commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
> >
> >Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
> >There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
> >thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
> >separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
> >buttons, she could not set the cruise.
> >
> >Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
> >just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
> >Fashionable! But... why?
> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
> necessity?
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Does one NEED a multi speed bicycle? Isn't one gear enough? Does one NEED STI/Ergo shifters? Isn't a lever on the end of the handlebars or stem or downtube enough? Does one NEED a starter inside their car? Isn't a crank at the front of the car enough? Does one NEED an air conditioner? Can't you just roll the windows down? Does one NEED a heater? Just wear boots and coats inside the car in winter. Does one NEED headlights? Just drive when the sun is up.

Lot of luxuries. Very few necessities.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:01:51 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>> >>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>> >>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>> >>> stopped at a red light.
>> >>>
>> >>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>> >>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>> >>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>> >>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>> >>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>> >>> even a flip phone.
>> >>>
>> >>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>> >>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>> >>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>> >>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>> >> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>> >> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>> >> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>> >> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>> >> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>> >> car reading the paper.
>> >>
>> >> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>> >> remember any of it.
>> >
>> >As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>> >screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>> >and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>> >least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>> >commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>> >
>> >Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>> >There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>> >thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>> >separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>> >buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>> >
>> >Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>> >just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>> >Fashionable! But... why?
>> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
>> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
>> necessity?
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>Does one NEED a multi speed bicycle? Isn't one gear enough? Does one NEED STI/Ergo shifters? Isn't a lever on the end of the handlebars or stem or downtube enough? Does one NEED a starter inside their car? Isn't a crank at the front of the car enough? Does one NEED an air conditioner? Can't you just roll the windows down? Does one NEED a heater? Just wear boots and coats inside the car in winter. Does one NEED headlights? Just drive when the sun is up.
>
>Lot of luxuries. Very few necessities.

Well, re bicycles. When I was a young lad all bicycles were single
speed, coaster brake, bicycles and yes we rode them... but not up very
steep hills. So I would say that multi speed bicycles are actually
more efficient, in the sense of the ability to ride over terrain that
is not flat.

As for air conditioner... well apparently you have never lived in
places like the Mohave Valley where summer temperatures can reach 110
degrees (F).

And cranking a car? Yes, I've done that but most women, and many men,
aren't capable of that and multi cylinder engines are damned hard, if
not impossible, to crank.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 8:21:01 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:01:51 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
> >> >>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
> >> >>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
> >> >>> stopped at a red light.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
> >> >>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
> >> >>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
> >> >>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
> >> >>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
> >> >>> even a flip phone.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
> >> >>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
> >> >>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
> >> >>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
> >> >> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
> >> >> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
> >> >> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
> >> >> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
> >> >> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
> >> >> car reading the paper.
> >> >>
> >> >> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
> >> >> remember any of it.
> >> >
> >> >As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
> >> >screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
> >> >and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
> >> >least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
> >> >commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
> >> >
> >> >Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
> >> >There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
> >> >thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
> >> >separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
> >> >buttons, she could not set the cruise.
> >> >
> >> >Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
> >> >just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
> >> >Fashionable! But... why?
> >> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
> >> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
> >> necessity?
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >Does one NEED a multi speed bicycle? Isn't one gear enough? Does one NEED STI/Ergo shifters? Isn't a lever on the end of the handlebars or stem or downtube enough? Does one NEED a starter inside their car? Isn't a crank at the front of the car enough? Does one NEED an air conditioner? Can't you just roll the windows down? Does one NEED a heater? Just wear boots and coats inside the car in winter. Does one NEED headlights? Just drive when the sun is up.
> >
> >Lot of luxuries. Very few necessities.
> Well, re bicycles. When I was a young lad all bicycles were single
> speed, coaster brake, bicycles

Hmmmmmm....No. Now I will allow you to say all of the bicycles you were aware of in your town, were single speed coaster brake bikes. But way back in the 1920s, the Tour riders used flip flop hubs to get multiple gears and used caliper brakes. Andy or another historian will have to chime in about when internal hub gear bikes were invented and when the first multi cog rear derailleur bikes were invented. Guessing back in the 1930s or so. Are you over a century old John? You did say "When I was a young lad".

I have this poster.
https://www.fulcrumgallery.com/pla.aspx?sku=P367005&source=GoogleAdWords&ad=P367005_GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwiuuRBhBvEiwAFXKaNBGpMX9czcTqi5pDSFV5hUJyuub1eyjJiVzdWigFkuf_e2gQedSw6xoCWMkQAvD_BwE

and yes we rode them... but not up very
> steep hills. So I would say that multi speed bicycles are actually
> more efficient, in the sense of the ability to ride over terrain that
> is not flat.
>
> As for air conditioner... well apparently you have never lived in
> places like the Mohave Valley where summer temperatures can reach 110
> degrees (F).
>
> And cranking a car? Yes, I've done that but most women, and many men,
> aren't capable of that and multi cylinder engines are damned hard, if
> not impossible, to crank.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:36:03 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> I have killed a nice selection of deer and cars with deer.
> It isn't funny, it's expensive.

A few years ago the owner of our local bike shop was found dead in the
road with deer hair on him and his motorcycle nearby.

I agree, 'taint funny.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:02:47 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 8:21:01 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:01:51 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>> >> >>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>> >> >>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>> >> >>> stopped at a red light.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>> >> >>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>> >> >>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>> >> >>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>> >> >>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>> >> >>> even a flip phone.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>> >> >>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>> >> >>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>> >> >>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>> >> >> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>> >> >> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>> >> >> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>> >> >> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>> >> >> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>> >> >> car reading the paper.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>> >> >> remember any of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>> >> >screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>> >> >and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>> >> >least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>> >> >commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> >Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>> >> >There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>> >> >thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>> >> >separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>> >> >buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>> >> >
>> >> >Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>> >> >just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>> >> >Fashionable! But... why?
>> >> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
>> >> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
>> >> necessity?
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >Does one NEED a multi speed bicycle? Isn't one gear enough? Does one NEED STI/Ergo shifters? Isn't a lever on the end of the handlebars or stem or downtube enough? Does one NEED a starter inside their car? Isn't a crank at the front of the car enough? Does one NEED an air conditioner? Can't you just roll the windows down? Does one NEED a heater? Just wear boots and coats inside the car in winter. Does one NEED headlights? Just drive when the sun is up.
>> >
>> >Lot of luxuries. Very few necessities.
>> Well, re bicycles. When I was a young lad all bicycles were single
>> speed, coaster brake, bicycles
>
>Hmmmmmm....No. Now I will allow you to say all of the bicycles you were aware of in your town, were single speed coaster brake bikes. But way back in the 1920s, the Tour riders used flip flop hubs to get multiple gears and used caliper brakes. Andy or another historian will have to chime in about when internal hub gear bikes were invented and when the first multi cog rear derailleur bikes were invented. Guessing back in the 1930s or so. Are you over a century old John? You did say "When I was a young lad".
>
>I have this poster.
>https://www.fulcrumgallery.com/pla.aspx?sku=P367005&source=GoogleAdWords&ad=P367005_GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwiuuRBhBvEiwAFXKaNBGpMX9czcTqi5pDSFV5hUJyuub1eyjJiVzdWigFkuf_e2gQedSw6xoCWMkQAvD_BwE
>

Well, I'm not sure that a flip-flop rear wheel is really a multi
speed. Or does replacing your auto's driven wheel tires with larger or
smaller constitute a multi speed auto?

As for actual multi speed bikes. I read that the first bike which
allowed "gear changing" while underway was the Cambio Corsa which was
a two speed bike that could be shifted with rods at the rear. Dated to
1946 I think.

As for your mile long reference, above, you might want to try
https://tinyurl.com/app
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:35:54 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>As for your mile long reference, above, you might want to try
>https://tinyurl.com/app

Or, just manually edit it to remove the tracking information:
<https://www.fulcrumgallery.com/pla.aspx?sku=P367005>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 00:10:40 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:30:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/23/2022 11:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/23/2022 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CD players are now "state of the ark." One of our best
>>>>>> friends was forced to buy a new car. A woman chatting on a
>>>>>> cell phone ran into her at speed while our friend was
>>>>>> stopped at a red light.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our friend, like me, has obscure music tastes and a healthy
>>>>>> CD collection. She was dismayed to find that her new car has
>>>>>> no CD player. It wants her to load her music collection onto
>>>>>> her smart phone, then Bluetooth into her car's stereo
>>>>>> system. But my friend refuses to carry any cell phone, not
>>>>>> even a flip phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I loaded a large music collection onto a thumb drive,
>>>>>> plugged it into her car's USB port and showed her how to
>>>>>> access it. It works after a fashion, provided one doesn't
>>>>>> want to listen to a particular recording at a particular time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I know, we're now supposed to use streaming services...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Without belaboring the details, girlfriend bought a new car a few years
>>>>> ago, same model as the one I gave her which she wore out. New version
>>>>> has a super duper electronics array which senses and integrates with her
>>>>> hearing aids and Apple telephone. Salesman spent nearly an hour with her
>>>>> at the lot explaining all the various integrated features (telephone
>>>>> rings hearing aids, car plays audio from telephone, etc) as I sat in my
>>>>> car reading the paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was the only time she turned on any of those features, can't
>>>>> remember any of it.
>>>>
>>>> As with my friend. But my friend's attitude is absolute refusal. Touch
>>>> screens and menu trees with hundreds of choices? She wants none of it,
>>>> and I tend to agree. But I guess the fashionable thing is to spend at
>>>> least a week tweaking the graphic equalizer, recording your voice
>>>> commands, linking your phone and your eyeglasses to your car, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Even her cruise control has what I consider poor user interface design.
>>>> There's an obvious pair of buttons on the steering wheel under her right
>>>> thumb, labeled something like "Resume/+" and "Set/-". The buttons are
>>>> separated by a decorative chrome bar. But no matter how she pushed the
>>>> buttons, she could not set the cruise.
>>>>
>>>> Turns out the decorative chrome bar is the switch. The "buttons" are
>>>> just labels. The bar itself must be pushed upward or downward. Stylish!
>>>> Fashionable! But... why?
>>>
>>> But does one NEED cruse control? Yes, I know it is a help while
>>> applying one's makeup, or talking on the Phone, but is it really a
>>> necessity?
>>
>> Very little is needed to be honest, but it’s one of the few toys on the old
>> Volvo, assuming it’s a reasonably clear motorway, it’s handy to just hold
>> speed which largely is what other cars are doing.
>>
>> Helps that is an auto probably as well, so it will change gear if needed.
>>
>> It’s most useful thinking about it, in the average speed cameras areas to
>> make sure you don’t drift over, as a surprisingly number of folks don’t
>> understand the concept…
>>
>> Roger Merriman.
>
> I think that you are rationalizing. Or at least I've been driving for
> 70 years or so and never had a problem manually controlling the
> vehicle speed.

It clearly in the realms of want vs need, I do use it for motorways
particularly the average speed camera sections. As its easier, for that use
ie just following the car ahead at 50mph.

Roger Merriman.