Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
Deacon Mark

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 1:04:13 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> Deacon Mark
This all depends on how close your chain is to the appropriate length which depends on the geometry of your bike frame. Adding 4 teeth also depends on the rear derailleur arm length. In general I would think that you need to add 2 complete links.

On 5/9/2022 3:04 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> Deacon Mark
>

Yes.
With modern rear changers[1], wrap the big-big, add 3 rivets
and break your chain there or one longer[2], not shorter.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/CHNLENGT.JPG
Then pass it through the changers and join it with your
snaplink.

[1]For Campagnolo 12, read the directions thoroughly and
follow them exactly.

[2]depends on how your innies and outies match up

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
<deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:

>Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>Deacon Mark

https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> >Deacon Mark
> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.
Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
Deacon Mark

On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>> Deacon Mark
>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> Deacon Mark
>

Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
your drivetrain.

Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/

Excerpted on my page with some photos:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> >> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> >>> Deacon Mark
> >> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> >> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> > Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> your drivetrain.
>
> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>
> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22.. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
Deacon Mark

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 8:50:13 AM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > >> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > >>> Deacon Mark
> > >> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > >> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > >> --
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> John B.
> > > Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > >
> > Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > your drivetrain.
> >
> > Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> >
> > Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> Deacon Mark
The Connex chain is easily the longest wearing chain but expensive. So it is usual to buy several Shimano or SRAM chains or KMC chains which are all equally priced And wear them out. A chain wear tool is cheap and easy to use. I have now completely converted to hot waxing my chain and then cleaning and rewaxing when it starts making noise. I haven't worn out a chain since I started doing this. The hot pot for the wax and a couple of tablespoons of Teflon powder and a ultrasonic cleaner which was a $30 item when I bought it, will last a long time. I use something bought from an auto parts store called "ultraclean" in the cleaner but I imagine that dish detergent would work just as well since most of the wax is worn off when the chain starts making noise and the cleaning is really to remove the black road grease that gets on the chain and dishwashing detergent makes that stuff water soluble. Using this method, the cassettes look nearly new and I only have to clean them once a year to maintain both appearance and lack of wear.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > >> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > >>> Deacon Mark
> > >> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > >> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > >> --
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> John B.
> > > Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > >
> > Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > your drivetrain.
> >
> > Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> >
> > Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> Deacon Mark

What was the lifetime of your chains again? Personally I have not so good experience with SRAM chains in the lifetime department and stick to Campagnolo on my Capagnolo equiped bike (Record level) and Shimano op my Shimano equiped bikes (105 and Ultegra level). Ymmv.

Lou

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > >> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > > >> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such.. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > > >>> Deacon Mark
> > > >> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > > >> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > > >> --
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >>
> > > >> John B.
> > > > Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > > > Deacon Mark
> > > >
> > > Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > > your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > > your drivetrain.
> > >
> > > Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> > >
> > > Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > > http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> > Deacon Mark
> What was the lifetime of your chains again? Personally I have not so good experience with SRAM chains in the lifetime department and stick to Campagnolo on my Capagnolo equiped bike (Record level) and Shimano op my Shimano equiped bikes (105 and Ultegra level). Ymmv.
>
> Lou

Lou you make too much sense but really just asking if they chain shifts as good as a shimano without any decline in performance. As to you original question I get big time mileage out of Shimano Chains at least 8,000 miles no real stretch. I think because I use a wipperman connex and generally keep it clean. I am not crazy and do it after every ride in obsession but just don't let it go to crud build up. In fact I use cheap 20w 3-in-1 oil I buy at the box stores. I never buy or use the expensive stuff in the bike shop. I ride on the roads for sure and generally in dry conditions but if it is rainy I clean things up. This is the flatlands so no real hills as such or mountains.

I am asking all this stuff because I was going to upgrade my 2014 Wilier to 11spd r7000 but decided not to do this. I use it basically on the trainer since I ride my Ti Habanero almost exclusively. Then I go to think I should ride the WIlier a bit more and got a 11-28 cassette. The cassette on the trainer is an 11-23 not enough spacing to make things easy. I don't how many miles are on the Ultegra chain but my guess is at least 5k inside over the past 4 years with a few rides outside. Then with the change over I have been riding the Wilier maybe 1-2 days a week. I rides fine but the 6700 is just not as smooth an quiet as the 6800 on the Habby. It shifts fine but the margin or error to dial in is pretty exact. Being CF is actually makes a bit more noise riding with wind currents and simply does not quietly move down the road like the Ti. I could just be me but I am a real believer that Ti is maybe the finest ride with no drawbacks.
Deacon Mark

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:50:13 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > > >> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > > > >> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > > > >>> Deacon Mark
> > > > >> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > > > >> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> John B.
> > > > > Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > > > > Deacon Mark
> > > > >
> > > > Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > > > your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > > > your drivetrain.
> > > >
> > > > Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> > > >
> > > > Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > > > http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > What was the lifetime of your chains again? Personally I have not so good experience with SRAM chains in the lifetime department and stick to Campagnolo on my Capagnolo equiped bike (Record level) and Shimano op my Shimano equiped bikes (105 and Ultegra level). Ymmv.
> >
> > Lou
> Lou you make too much sense but really just asking if they chain shifts as good as a shimano without any decline in performance. As to you original question I get big time mileage out of Shimano Chains at least 8,000 miles no real stretch. I think because I use a wipperman connex and generally keep it clean. I am not crazy and do it after every ride in obsession but just don't let it go to crud build up. In fact I use cheap 20w 3-in-1 oil I buy at the box stores. I never buy or use the expensive stuff in the bike shop.. I ride on the roads for sure and generally in dry conditions but if it is rainy I clean things up. This is the flatlands so no real hills as such or mountains.
>
> I am asking all this stuff because I was going to upgrade my 2014 Wilier to 11spd r7000 but decided not to do this. I use it basically on the trainer since I ride my Ti Habanero almost exclusively. Then I go to think I should ride the WIlier a bit more and got a 11-28 cassette. The cassette on the trainer is an 11-23 not enough spacing to make things easy. I don't how many miles are on the Ultegra chain but my guess is at least 5k inside over the past 4 years with a few rides outside. Then with the change over I have been riding the Wilier maybe 1-2 days a week. I rides fine but the 6700 is just not as smooth an quiet as the 6800 on the Habby. It shifts fine but the margin or error to dial in is pretty exact. Being CF is actually makes a bit more noise riding with wind currents and simply does not quietly move down the road like the Ti. I could just be me but I am a real believer that Ti is maybe the finest ride with no drawbacks.

All 10 speed chains shift equally well as far as I can tell. The entire system is far more dependent upon very good alignment than chains having a sharp side profile.

On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>> Deacon Mark
>>>
>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>> your drivetrain.
>>
>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>
>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> Deacon Mark
>

SRAM chains:
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1

Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
(and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).

I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> >>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> >>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> >>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> John B.
> >>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> >>> Deacon Mark
> >>>
> >> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> >> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> >> your drivetrain.
> >>
> >> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> >> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> >>
> >> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> SRAM chains:
> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>
> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>
> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.

On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John B.
>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>
>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>
>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>
>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html

>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>> Deacon Mark
>>>
>> SRAM chains:
>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>
>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>
>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.

> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
>

An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
thought we made it up.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:04:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>>
>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>
>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>
>>> SRAM chains:
>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>>
>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>>
>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>
>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
>>
>
>An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>thought we made it up.

(:-)
You must be a young fellow... I can remember when coffee was 5 cents a
cup (:-)

But of course I wasn't allowed to drink coffee as a youth as it
"stunts your growth" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/11/2022 9:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's waitress that our
> $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She thought we made it up.

And I once had a part time job for which I was paid about $1.15 per hour.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> >>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such.. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> >>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> >>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John B.
> >>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> >>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> >>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> >>>> your drivetrain.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> >>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> >>>>
> >>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> >>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> >>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> >>> Deacon Mark
> >>>
> >> SRAM chains:
> >> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
> >>
> >> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
> >> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
> >>
> >> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
> >> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
> > I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
> >
> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
> thought we made it up.

Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > >>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > >>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> > >>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > >>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> John B.
> > >>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > >>>>> Deacon Mark
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > >>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > >>>> your drivetrain.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > >>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > >>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > >>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> > >>> Deacon Mark
> > >>>
> > >> SRAM chains:
> > >> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
> > >>
> > >> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
> > >> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
> > >>
> > >> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
> > >> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
> > > I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
> > >
> > An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
> > waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
> > thought we made it up.
> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.

Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > >>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> > > >>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> > > >>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> > > >>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> > > >>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> > > >>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> Cheers,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> John B.
> > > >>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> > > >>>>> Deacon Mark
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> > > >>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> > > >>>> your drivetrain.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> > > >>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> > > >>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> > > >>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> > > >>> Deacon Mark
> > > >>>
> > > >> SRAM chains:
> > > >> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
> > > >>
> > > >> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
> > > >> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
> > > >> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
> > > > I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
> > > >
> > > An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
> > > waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
> > > thought we made it up.
> > Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.
> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.

Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring. The larger diameter will require two extra links. Or two half links since you can only break a chain every other pin. 112 to 110.

On Mon, 23 May 2022 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > >> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> > > >>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > >>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> > > >>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>> > > >>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>> > > >>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>> > > >>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>> > > >>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>> > > >>>>>> --
>> > > >>>>>> Cheers,
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> John B.
>> > > >>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>> > > >>>>> Deacon Mark
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>> > > >>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>> > > >>>> your drivetrain.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>> > > >>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>> > > >>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>> > > >>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>> > > >>> Deacon Mark
>> > > >>>
>> > > >> SRAM chains:
>> > > >> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>> > > >> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>> > > >> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>> > > > I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
>> > > >
>> > > An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>> > > waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>> > > thought we made it up.
>> > Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.
>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
>
>Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring. The larger diameter will require two extra links. Or two half links since you can only break a chain every other pin. 112 to 110.

It's been a while but I seem to remember that to correctly size a
chain you wrapped it around the largest chain wheel and the largest
rear "cog" and added, was it one link or two links?
Is it more complex with them Italian bicycles (:-?)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/23/2022 11:41 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>>>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>>>>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> SRAM chains:
>>>>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>>>>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>>>>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>>>>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
>>>>>
>>>> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>>>> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>>>> thought we made it up.
>>> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.
>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
>
> Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring. The larger diameter will require two extra links. Or two half links since you can only break a chain every other pin. 112 to 110.
>

AFAIK there are no half links for eight, nine, ten, eleven
or 12 chain.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HALFLINK.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/24/2022 12:22 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 23 May 2022 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>>>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>>>>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>>>>>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SRAM chains:
>>>>>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>>>>>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>>>>>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>>>>>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
>>>>>>
>>>>> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>>>>> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>>>>> thought we made it up.
>>>> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.
>>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
>>
>> Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring. The larger diameter will require two extra links. Or two half links since you can only break a chain every other pin. 112 to 110.
>
> It's been a while but I seem to remember that to correctly size a
> chain you wrapped it around the largest chain wheel and the largest
> rear "cog" and added, was it one link or two links?
> Is it more complex with them Italian bicycles (:-?)
>

That's right for double spring pivot changers between 1984
and now with one exception.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/CHNLENGT.JPG

The latest Campagnolo changers are marvelously redesigned to
span a wide range with a relatively short cage. To set up
the current 12 system, read Campagnolo's directions
carefully and follow those directions.

Older single-spring changers (such as Campagnolo GranSport,
Record, Super Record pre-index) commonly shift best with
longer chain than 'wrap plus 3 rivets'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 6:07:21 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 12:22 AM, John B. wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 May 2022 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> >>>>>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or some other way.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
> >>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
> >>>>>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
> >>>>>>>>> your drivetrain.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
> >>>>>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
> >>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SRAM chains:
> >>>>>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
> >>>>>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
> >>>>>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
> >>>>>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70 Wipperman.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
> >>>>> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
> >>>>> thought we made it up.
> >>>> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now I'm paying ten times that much.
> >>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
> >>
> >> Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring. The larger diameter will require two extra links. Or two half links since you can only break a chain every other pin. 112 to 110.
> >
> > It's been a while but I seem to remember that to correctly size a
> > chain you wrapped it around the largest chain wheel and the largest
> > rear "cog" and added, was it one link or two links?
> > Is it more complex with them Italian bicycles (:-?)
> >
> That's right for double spring pivot changers between 1984
> and now with one exception.
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/CHNLENGT.JPG
>
> The latest Campagnolo changers are marvelously redesigned to
> span a wide range with a relatively short cage. To set up
> the current 12 system, read Campagnolo's directions
> carefully and follow those directions.
>
> Older single-spring changers (such as Campagnolo GranSport,
> Record, Super Record pre-index) commonly shift best with
> longer chain than 'wrap plus 3 rivets'.

It is John's belief that he can Google much better information than Campagnolo. He has never owned any top end bicycles or equipment but he can tell you all about it. In the past Russell said that he had Di2 and it worked great. Then he said that it was 7970! That was the 10 speed crap the never worked well and used wiring for which there are no spares since I believe that it contains 3 conductors and the shifting computer never worked properly. This is why the very next year Shimano totally redesigned the system from the ground up. This certainly gets tiresome. Why do you suppose that people that don't have any top end stuff always know all about it?

On 5/24/2022 9:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/23/2022 11:41 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running
>>>>>>>>>>>> 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right now
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the rear
>>>>>>>>>>>> derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost certain
>>>>>>>>>>>> going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain but 32?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old big-big
>>>>>>>>>>>> without the going through derailleur to measure or some
>>>>>>>>>>>> other way.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28 and
>>>>>>>>>> put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins in the
>>>>>>>>>> big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a new 10
>>>>>>>>>> spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>>>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>>>>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>>>>>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed
>>>>>>>> Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get
>>>>>>>> a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the
>>>>>>>> Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact
>>>>>>>> that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this
>>>>>>>> sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go sram.
>>>>>>>> My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise me if
>>>>>>>> all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SRAM chains:
>>>>>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>>>>>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>>>>>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>>>>>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The
>>>>>> cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now
>>>>>> they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since
>>>>>> it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was
>>>>>> better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70
>>>>>> Wipperman.
>>>>>>
>>>>> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>>>>> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>>>>> thought we made it up.
>>>> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now
>>>> I'm paying ten times that much.
>>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation
>>> video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring
>>> that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be
>>> using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the cogs
>>> can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
>>
>> Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring is
>> bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring.  The larger diameter will require
>> two extra links.  Or two half links since you can only break a chain
>> every other pin.  112 to 110.
>>
>
>
> AFAIK there are no half links for eight, nine, ten, eleven or 12 chain.
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HALFLINK.JPG

A marketing opportunity! :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/24/2022 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 12:22 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 May 2022 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-7, cycl...@yahoo.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:05:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 3:05:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2022 10:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 8:03:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2022 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:25:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>>>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming my current chain is proper length I am running
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11-28 rear with 11 spd Shimano. If I change the cassette to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11-32 how many links would I normally need to add. Right
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now I believe my chain length is fine but when I pull the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rear derailleur all the way up after it is on the 28 tooth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have what seems to be quite a bit of room. I am almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain going to 30 tooth would not require a longer chain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but 32? Is there a formula as such. Do you prefer the old
>>>>>>>>>>>>> big-big without the going through derailleur to measure or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some other way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://ilovebicycling.com/determine-bike-chain-length/
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bike.bikegremlin.com/614/chain-length-sizing-for-bicycles-with-derailleurs/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>>> Well I bought the new cassette today Shimano Ultegra 11-28
>>>>>>>>>>> and put in on the Wilier. The chain needed nothing it spins
>>>>>>>>>>> in the big-big fine with no stress. I probably should get a
>>>>>>>>>>> new 10 spd chain too I suppose they are sky high in prices.
>>>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chain wears first which causes cassette tooth wear. Measure
>>>>>>>>>> your chain and replace as needed; it's the cheapest part of
>>>>>>>>>> your drivetrain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr Brandt is excellent on the subject see section #8d here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Excerpted on my page with some photos:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html
>>>>>>>>> Andrew you would know this. I can get a Sram PC-1031 10-Speed
>>>>>>>>> Chain for $22. at the local bike shop but I could also just get
>>>>>>>>> a Shimano Ultegra. Will the Sram shift equally as good as the
>>>>>>>>> Shimano. I have not mixed these components just due to the fact
>>>>>>>>> that it has work with all shimano in the past good. But if this
>>>>>>>>> sram which seems like a good price is equal then I will go
>>>>>>>>> sram. My guess is shifting will be same but would not surprise
>>>>>>>>> me if all Ultegra chain would be even smoother.
>>>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SRAM chains:
>>>>>>>> https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/products/chains?filters=&sort=Relevancy&page=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chain makes offer less expensive as well as longer wearing
>>>>>>>> (and sometimes lighter weight, which is usually neither).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd consider a basic 1031 SRAM or a Shimano Ultegra fine for
>>>>>>>> your bike. Or KMC or Campagnolo or Wippermann.
>>>>>>> I looked at the Ebay cost of chains and was in for a shock. The
>>>>>>> cost of the "cheap" chains used to be 10 or 12 dollars and now
>>>>>>> they are 25! This almost makes the top end Wipperman a deal since
>>>>>>> it has a MUCH better speed link and wear very long. At $12 it was
>>>>>>> better to use the cheap chain and replace it rather than the $70
>>>>>>> Wipperman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> An acquaintance and I were unable to convince today's
>>>>>> waitress that our $2.79 coffees were once a dime. She
>>>>>> thought we made it up.
>>>>> Remember when breakfast - ham and eggs and hashbrowns was 1.25? Now
>>>>> I'm paying ten times that much.
>>>> Another note about Deacon Mark's question, The Campy installation
>>>> video seemed to be saying that if you had a 52 or 53 took large ring
>>>> that you should use 112 links and if you had a compact you should be
>>>> using a 110 links. I'm not sure that makes sense to me since the
>>>> cogs can vary so widely, but that was their conclusion.
>>>
>>> Campagnolo is smart enough to know that a 52 or 53 tooth outer ring
>>> is bigger than a 50 tooth compact ring.  The larger diameter will
>>> require two extra links.  Or two half links since you can only break
>>> a chain every other pin.  112 to 110.
>>
>> It's been a while but I seem to remember that to correctly size a
>> chain you wrapped it around the largest chain wheel and the largest
>> rear "cog" and added, was it one link or two links?
>> Is it more complex with them Italian bicycles (:-?)
>>
>
> That's right for double spring pivot changers between 1984 and now with
> one exception.
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/CHNLENGT.JPG
>
> The latest Campagnolo changers are marvelously redesigned to span a wide
> range with a relatively short cage. To set up the current 12 system,
> read Campagnolo's directions carefully and follow those directions.
>
> Older single-spring changers (such as Campagnolo GranSport, Record,
> Super Record pre-index) commonly shift best with longer chain than 'wrap
> plus 3 rivets'.

I would have phrased that differently. I'd say they just shift less
badly with longer chain.

--
- Frank Krygowski