On 5/16/2022 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:14:11 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> Or better yet, have the USA take Covid more seriously. You seem to love the Republican methodology of labeling someone evil and thus branding them. But that does not work too well. The Chinese overall government system is less than ideal. Yet it has allowed 1.4 billion people to sort of flourish. Sort of. If the USA had 1.4 billion people, could democracy work? India has about as many people as China and I am not sure India is thriving. India is supposedly a democracy. Its often reported that Eisenhower was amazed at the road network in Germany after the war. He saw how beneficial it was. And implemented it in the USA. Just because Germany was run by Nazi Hitler, does not mean they did not do some things right. Dictator Stalin fought Germany to a standstill and eventually repulsed them. In that case maybe having a dictator was the best way to fight Hitler. So dictator Stalin was good. In that one and only situation.
>>>>>
>>
>> As they say..."Il Duce made the trains run on time"...Sorry Russel, I don't see the upside to totalitarian dictatorships, regardless of how well the trains run.
>
> But didn't the Athenians, who invented democracy, had provisions for
> the appointment of a "dictator", a single, all powerful, leader,
> during wars?
>

As did the Roman republic, among other examples.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> And secondly how do you
> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.

You don't. You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
reaching the crosswalk.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Tue, 10 May 2022 11:21:08 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

> But why rag on hard hats when we've just seen most of the world forced
> to learn a new pointless performative PPE dance? Walk up to the door of
> the pub, drag a minimal face rag out of your pocket, put it on, walk to
> your table, take it off and put it in your pocket. Eat, drink, and be
> merry until you have to stand up and walk to the john, then put the
> nasty contaminated face rag on until you get back to the table. Sit
> down, take it off ...

I take off my helmet, draw my veil down, throw it back over the top of
my head when eating, draw it down again, after leaving the building, I
throw it back over the top of my head, adjust it so that no part
sticks out in front of my mirror, and put my mirror holder back on.

And, um, "PPE" stands for "personal protective equipement". Masks are
designed to keep your snot and spittal off other people. A study has
shown (surprise!) that they do provide some slight protection to the
wearer, but that is not why they are worn.

The ordinary pleated mask is a *handkerchief*. Only handkerchief
precautions apply. (But we used to collect handkerchiefs used by sick
people people in a paper bag, and burn them bag and all.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> And secondly how do you
>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>
>You don't. You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
>car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
>reaching the crosswalk.

And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have different
stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer with two 40
ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably further to
stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:14:12 AM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Or better yet, have the USA take Covid more seriously. You seem to love the Republican methodology of labeling someone evil and thus branding them.. But that does not work too well. The Chinese overall government system is less than ideal. Yet it has allowed 1.4 billion people to sort of flourish.. Sort of. If the USA had 1.4 billion people, could democracy work? India has about as many people as China and I am not sure India is thriving. India is supposedly a democracy. Its often reported that Eisenhower was amazed at the road network in Germany after the war. He saw how beneficial it was. And implemented it in the USA. Just because Germany was run by Nazi Hitler, does not mean they did not do some things right. Dictator Stalin fought Germany to a standstill and eventually repulsed them. In that case maybe having a dictator was the best way to fight Hitler. So dictator Stalin was good.. In that one and only situation.
> > > >
> As they say..."Il Duce made the trains run on time"...Sorry Russel, I don't see the upside to totalitarian dictatorships, regardless of how well the trains run.

Take my example from WW2. Stalin was an evil dictator who killed millions before, during and after WW2. But he did fight Germany to a standstill when Germany invaded east Europe and Russia. France, Belgium, Netherlands were overrun by Germany very quickly. And Britain likely would have fallen quickly too if they were not an island, thus not open to ground forces. At the beginning of WW2 at Dunkirk, Britain was destroyed. Sort of democratic Britain. Maybe, maybe, maybe, if a dictator instead of a democracy was running things at the beginning, the first results would have been different.

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:24:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 3:31:07 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:30:52 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >>
> > >> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:12:11 AM UTC-5, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> >> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 7:34:15 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> >> > On 5/12/2022 4:21 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> >> > > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 10:21:11 AM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> >> > >>> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> writes:
> > >> >> > >>>
> > >> >> > >>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:12:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > >> >> > >>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>>> The only object overhead might, I suppose, have been a meteor. And
> > >> >> > >>>>> really, his biggest chance of a head injury would have been while
> > >> >> > >>>>> driving the truck, unless he tripped on exit. But apparently no
> > >> >> > >>>>> regulation said to wear a helmet while driving or exiting..
> > >> >> > >>>>
> > >> >> > >>>> The main purpose of hard hats on open-air jobs is to make it easy to
> > >> >> > >>>> tell the workmen from spectators who need to be shooed out of the
> > >> >> > >>>> workzone.
> > >> >> > >>> +1. A hard hat says "I belong here, I know the rules and follow them".
> > >> >> > >>> Finer gradations are possible -- visitors get semi-disposable "bump
> > >> >> > >>> caps", possibly in an odd color. Management have spotless hard hats.
> > >> >> > >>> Actual workers have dingy looking hard hats, in the winter they've got
> > >> >> > >>> ear warmers on them. Those that wish to stand out can procure
> > >> >> > >>> OSHA-approved cowboy style hard hats.
> > >> >> > >>>
> > >> >> > >>> But why rag on hard hats when we've just seen most of the world forced
> > >> >> > >>> to learn a new pointless performative PPE dance? Walk up to the door of
> > >> >> > >>> the pub, drag a minimal face rag out of your pocket, put it on, walk to
> > >> >> > >>> your table, take it off and put it in your pocket. Eat, drink, and be
> > >> >> > >>> merry until you have to stand up and walk to the john, then put the
> > >> >> > >>> nasty contaminated face rag on until you get back to the table. Sit
> > >> >> > >>> down, take it off ...
> > >> >> > >>>
> > >> >> > >>> --
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Agree. We should re-implement the policies used in the mid and later
> > >> >> > >> 2020. Stop all gatherings and close restaurants, bars, meeting
> > >> >> > >> places. That would help to stamp out the Covid epidemic. But USians
> > >> >> > >> value human life very little. So we are happy to tolerate a couple
> > >> >> > >> hundred thousand extra dead people each year. 350,831 Covid deaths in
> > >> >> > >> 2020 per the CDC. 323 deaths each day according to the CDC right now.
> > >> >> > >> That only amounts to 118,000 dead each year. A pittance.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I really can't tell whether you're trying to be serious.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Fortunately governments all over the world, with the exception of the
> > >> >> > > CCP, have finally realized what lunacy that is. Perhaps it's only
> > >> >> > > temporary, as we're plainly living through one of the more extreme
> > >> >> > > episodes of popular delusions and the madness of crowds.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > The tiny or illusory benefits of lockdowns are plainly outweighed
> > >> >> > > by the damages to industry, commerce, education, non-COVID health care,
> > >> >> > > civil liberties, and confidence in government institutions. That last
> > >> >> > > one might be the clincher.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Here's a study for you:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Currently infant formula is unavailable at 43% of the normal retail
> > >> >> > > locations, are you in favor of that? How about introducing another
> > >> >> > > first grade class to school at the boring end of a computer screen,
> > >> >> > > assuming their parents have the wherewithal to provide broadband access?
> > >> >> > > Or another years toll of the sick, tired, and old dying in nursing homes
> > >> >> > > and hospitals without the comfort and support of even one visit from
> > >> >> > > family or friends?
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Lockdowns are plainly untenable. But if you want to remove yourself
> > >> >> > > from human circulation, save for the occasional usenet posting, zoom
> > >> >> > > call, or grocery drone delivery, then I wish you well. Just don't try
> > >> >> > > to enforce that on the rest of us.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> These were the leading causes of death in the USA in 2020. Heart
> > >> >> > >> disease: 696,962, Cancer: 602,350, COVID-19: 350,831, Accidents
> > >> >> > >> (unintentional injuries): 200,955, Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases):
> > >> >> > >> 160,264, Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657 (Tommy thinks
> > >> >> > >> Covid should be included in this category), Alzheimer’s disease:
> > >> >> > >> 134,242, Diabetes: 102,188, Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,544 (or maybe
> > >> >> > >> Tommy thinks this is Covid), Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and
> > >> >> > >> nephrosis: 52,547. Not sure why CDC has 2020 deaths and not 2021
> > >> >> > >> deaths. Government is not too up to date on their websites.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> But Covid killing only 118,000 per year at the current rate. That
> > >> >> > >> would be only 7th best killer. We can ignore it now.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home
> > >> >> > >> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > The Swedes, amazingly, were the un-lemmings on that suicide
> > >> >> > mission. Took everyone else (except the Middle Kingdom of
> > >> >> > Xi) 2 years to wake up and smell the coffee.
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Andrew Muzi
> > >> >> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >> >> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >> >> I assume you are referring to Sweden going against the worldwide
> > >> >> methodology of lockdowns and restrictions for Covid. At least
> > >> >> initially in 2020 and through part of 2021. Everyone except Shanghai
> > >> >> is wide open now. Was Sweden successful?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sweden population 10.2 million Covid deaths 18,824 Infections 2.5 million
> > >> >> Finland pop. 5.5 million Covid deaths 4,150 Infections 1.05 million
> > >> >> Norway pop. 5.5 million Covid deaths 3,061 Infections 1.4 million
> > >> >> Denmark pop. 5.8 million Covid deaths 6,260 Infections 3.1 million
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sweden has double the population of all of its nordic neighbors. So
> > >> >> you have to double the deaths and cases to get comparisons with its
> > >> >> nordic neighbors. If you do that then Sweden had 50% more Covid
> > >> >> deaths than Denmark. 200% more than Norway. 125% more than
> > >> >> Finland. Success?
> > >> The argument wasn't that Sweden did better than any other country, or
> > >> even better than they would have with lockdowns and masks, it was that
> > >> they didn't do *worse*. We see around the world a range of results,
> > >> some worse, some better. There are those that claim to know why, I'm
> > >> not one of them. If you compare Sweden to their neighbors Poland and
> > >> the Baltic states, they look better.
> > >
> > > But Sweden did WORSE than its neighbors. Sweden shares a long border
> > > with Finland and Norway. Hundreds or thousand miles with each. I am
> > > sure they are all the exact same people. They might speak different
> > > languages in each country. But other than that, you could pick people
> > > from all three countries and throw them down in one of the other
> > > countries and they would be just as happy. They are all identical
> > > people. So that is the only correct comparison to make. And Sweden
> > > did worse with its approach.
> > You're sure they're the same people? Maybe you should ask one; I'll bet
> > they'll say they're not the same. For one thing, Sweden has more people
> > living in high population density areas than Finland and Norway.
> > >> Finland, Denmark, and Norway actually did really well, it's just not
> > >> clear that NPIs had anything to do with that. All were fairly
> > >> non-stringent by world standards. If you're feeling open minded you
> > >> might read this page: https://swprs.org/judgment-day-sweden-vindicated/
> > >> lots of good links to follow.
> > >> >> And here is the total GDP of each country in 2020 and the percentage
> > >> >> change from the prior year. Sweden has double the population so has
> > >> >> a bigger GDP than its neighbors. Its double Finland's, but not near
> > >> >> double of Denmark and Norway. But per person GDP wealth is somewhat
> > >> >> similar amongst all these nordic countries.
> > >> >> Denmark GDP 2020 355 Billion -2.1%
> > >> >> Finland GDP 2020 271 Billion -2.8%
> > >> >> Norway GDP 2020 362 Billion -0.7%
> > >> >> Sweden GDP 2020 537 Billion -2.9%
> > >> >> Did Sweden win by not locking down? Economically it appears they saw
> > >> >> similar declines in GDP in 2020 as its neighbors. Except Norway did
> > >> >> really well. But they are an outlier apparently.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Did Sweden WIN by not locking down? Their GDP dropped similar to
> > >> >> their neighbors. So no economic win. They had a lot WORSE death rate
> > >> >> than their neighbors. I think deaths is kind of important. And their
> > >> >> sick/infections was similar to Finland and Norway so cost of people
> > >> >> going to the hospital was about the same. Denmark was an outlier
> > >> >> with sick people so throw them out.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> If the goal was to kill people with no economic benefits, then
> > >> >> Sweden won by not locking down and having no Covid
> > >> >> restrictions. Yeah Sweden. Kill em, kill em, kill em.
> > >> The world economy is all tied together these days. At work I'm
> > >> constantly reminded of things that are very hard to buy any more because
> > >> of troubles in China. When your trading partners' economies suffer,
> > >> yours will tend to suffer as well.
> > >>
> > >> But, it's really not all about the GDP. Consider the children and young
> > >> people that have missed educational and employment opportunities they
> > >> can never really make up -- they and their country will be somewhat
> > >> worse off for as long as they live.
> > >
> > > I agree. The lockdowns had costs on people. But if the alternative
> > > is death, and/or months in an ICU on a respirator, then the cost seems
> > > pretty minimal. Or do you think its better to have dead educated
> > > school children over alive less educated children? I believe ALIVE is
> > > the best choice no matter the cost.
> > Children never were at significant risk of death from covid. The FDA
> > recently revised the child death figures downward by something like 20%,
> > and they're still almost certainly exaggerated.
> > >> Consider health care. My neighbor died of cancer during the covid
> > >> fiasco. Normally she would have been in hospital taking chemotherapy,
> > >> but that was not allowed. Her husband certainly believes that was
> > >> responsible for her death, and I suspect he's right.
> > >
> > > Yes. If we had more and stronger lockdowns and caution early in the
> > > Covid pandemic, then it might not have spread as much. And would not
> > > have had as many people clogging the hospitals. And then your
> > > neighbor's wife could have been admitted and gotten chemotherapy.
> > > What is that old saying "Nip it in the bud".
> > That's not what happened. After the whole "two weeks to flatten the
> > curve" thing, which actually made sense to me, hospitals had fewer
> > patients than normal, laid off staff, and cried bitterly about losing
> > money.
> > >> Cancer and high
> > >> blood pressure screening, psychiatric care, routine vaccinations like
> > >> measles, polio, and chickenpox all declined markedly during the covid
> > >> NPIs;
> > >
> > > Yes, Covid impaired a huge cost on the country and people.
> > No, the insane response to covid imposed a huge cost on the our country
> > and others.
> > >> far from being swamped, hospitals laid off workers and lost a lot
> > >> of money.
> > >
> > > ?????? I heard lots of stories of hospitals paying huge money to
> > > attract nurses and doctors. I met a woman who was a traveling nurse.
> > > She made great money traveling to hospitals and living in an RV while
> > > there. And every single article I saw said hospitals were operating
> > > at overcapacity. No spare beds. Now I agree they may have lost
> > > money. Because they were forced to treat Covid patients and were not
> > > able to schedule the big paying luxury surgeries that make the
> > > hospitals huge profit.
> > We had field hospitals set up here in newly empty university buildings,
> > they were never used. The navy sent hospital ships to NYC, they were
> > never used. It's true that there were periods of high hospital use for
> > covid patients, but that was for a small fraction of the time.
> > >
> > >> If you believe medical care does any good,
> > >
> > > Personally, I am for medical care. But Covid disrupted the usual
> > > routine for medical services in the USA.
> > No, the insane response to covid disrupted the usual routine for medical
> > services in the USA. If we had responded as we did to the influenza
> > pandemics of 1957 or 1968, which almost no one remembers, we would have
> > had about the same result.
> > >> you can see that
> > >> this is a bad thing. Measles or chickenpox in a naive population would
> > >> make covid look like a walk in the park. Drug overdose deaths, the
> > >> panic du jour before covid, are also way up.
> > >
> > > Hopefully, now that no one cares about Covid deaths any longer, we can
> > > use some of the attention to medical care in the USA to solving the
> > > other huge medical problems we still have. Not likely, but maybe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Then there is the normal enjoyment of life. How much is it worth to be
> > >> able to attend a wedding, a graduation, a funeral? How much to be able
> > >> to hold a new grandchild?
> > >
> > > I guess the worth has to be judged to the cost. Potentially,
> > > probably, kill the newlyweds and groomsmen and bridesmaids and new
> > > graduate. Is the worth greater than that cost? I'd say no. As for
> > > funeral, a friend died during the Covid measures. Could not attend
> > > his funeral. Also could not visit him in the hospital a week or so
> > > before he died. Sad about that. But I understand why the hospital
> > > was not letting any visitors in. We tried to visit him and went to
> > > the hospital but the signs on the doors said no one could come in.
> > The funny thing about hospitals and nursing homes is that it really
> > makes a difference in your care whether you have someone visiting you
> > and advocating for you. If you're stuck in a nursing home and no one
> > ever visits you really might as well already be dead to the people that
> > have to take care of you. I would hate to be stuck in a hospital and
> > not be able to have any visitors, not just for social reasons, but to
> > make an impression on the staff.
> > >> Be with a dying parent? How about just
> > >> riding down to the local coffee house to have a coffee, or the one four
> > >> towns and a state over, if you feel like it? That's worth something to
> > >> me.
> > >
> > > Yes its worth something to me too. But if those actions help to kill
> > > other people or myself, then how much worth is it?
> > >
> > >>
> > >> How much do you suppose you would have to pay Mr. Krygowski to give up
> > >> religious services and playing music with his friends for a year?
> > >
> > > Concerning religious services, my Mom could not attend church for
> > > several months. Churches canceled. But they are back to going to
> > > church on Sunday morning again. I think a few of the church members
> > > died of Covid. I would have to wonder how religious a person is, and
> > > believe in a good deity, to willingly try to kill people just to have
> > > church services. Most religions have helping people as one of their
> > > core tenets. Not killing them.
> > "Willingly try to kill?" We have seen, once again, that viruses are
> > going to do what they do, and we can't stop them. Sometimes we can
> > affect the timing, a little, but that's really it.
> > >> I'll
> > >> bet it's a check I don't want to write. How about Mr. Muzi, to remain
> > >> celibate, assuming he's not allowed out of the house? That's what got
> > >> Neil Ferguson, he couldn't stay away from his mistress all the while he
> > >> was telling everyone in the UK they had to stay home. For that matter,
> > >> how much would you have to pay the median well-coiffed individual to
> > >> give up hair cuts for a year? That should have got Nancy Pelosi, but
> > >> we're apparently not as demanding of our politicians as the brits are.
> > >
> > > I am aware people say one thing and then do another. When I got a
> > > haircut the cutter had a mask on to protect her. And I think I held a
> > > mask up to my mouth to help too.
> > That's evidence that they say one thing and *believe* another, which for
> > someone like Neil Ferguson is pretty important.
> > >>
> > >> My point is that an economist would tell you that all of those costs are
> > >> actually taken from the wealth of the nation, even if they don't appear
> > >> directly in the GDP. Multiply by 300 million, almost all of whom care
> > >> about *something* outside the house, and you're talking real money.
> > >> Normal life is worth something.
> > >
> > > Yes there was/is an economic cost to Covid. And emotional cost too.
> > > But what is the cost of a life? For many it is zero. For others its
> > > a lot. Everyone in the world paid a price. Some more, some less. It
> > > seems compared to lots of other places in the world, the USA paid a
> > > higher price than it needed to.
> > Perhaps you should try to emigrate to China, where they still take covid
> > seriously.
> > >
> > >> > Sorry, forgot to post links providing the numbers above.
> > >> >
> > >> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8242624/
> > >> > Cases and deaths from Covid.
> > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data
> > >> > GDP and growth.
> > >> > https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=SE&name_desc=true
> > >> > I used Google search to get each country's population.
> That Fauci with total support of the Slime Stream Media and Democrat backing so that they could commit election fraud instituted lockdowns when EVERY previous study of lockdowns showed that all they did was cause overwhelming economic disaster and stopped the spread of NOTHING

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:54:23 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 3:37:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >
> > > On 5/13/2022 9:30 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >>
> > >>>> Did Sweden WIN by not locking down? Their GDP dropped similar to
> > >>>> their neighbors. So no economic win. They had a lot WORSE death rate
> > >>>> than their neighbors. I think deaths is kind of important. And their
> > >>>> sick/infections was similar to Finland and Norway so cost of people
> > >>>> going to the hospital was about the same. Denmark was an outlier
> > >>>> with sick people so throw them out.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If the goal was to kill people with no economic benefits, then
> > >>>> Sweden won by not locking down and having no Covid
> > >>>> restrictions. Yeah Sweden. Kill em, kill em, kill em.
> > >> The world economy is all tied together these days. At work I'm
> > >> constantly reminded of things that are very hard to buy any more because
> > >> of troubles in China. When your trading partners' economies suffer,
> > >> yours will tend to suffer as well.
> > >> But, it's really not all about the GDP. Consider the children and
> > >> young
> > >> people that have missed educational and employment opportunities they
> > >> can never really make up -- they and their country will be somewhat
> > >> worse off for as long as they live.
> > >> Consider health care. My neighbor died of cancer during the covid
> > >> fiasco. Normally she would have been in hospital taking chemotherapy,
> > >> but that was not allowed. Her husband certainly believes that was
> > >> responsible for her death, and I suspect he's right. Cancer and high
> > >> blood pressure screening, psychiatric care, routine vaccinations like
> > >> measles, polio, and chickenpox all declined markedly during the covid
> > >> NPIs; far from being swamped, hospitals laid off workers and lost a lot
> > >> of money. If you believe medical care does any good, you can see that
> > >> this is a bad thing. Measles or chickenpox in a naive population would
> > >> make covid look like a walk in the park. Drug overdose deaths, the
> > >> panic du jour before covid, are also way up.
> > >
> > > How are we to judge those problems? One simple way is body counts, no?
> > > The increased deaths due to drug overdoses or delayed chemo are
> > > nowhere near the COVID body counts. Psych care, vaccinations etc. were
> > > delayed, not prohibited forever.
> > >
> > > And some, perhaps most, of the delayed procedures were voluntary
> > > choices made by individuals. I currently have one good friend in
> > > serious need of bypass surgery. He's delayed for many months, against
> > > his doctor's advice. Part (not all) of his reasoning is a fear of
> > > catching COVID in the hospital. His doctor and another physician who's
> > > a mutual friend say that's a negligible risk compared to his heart
> > > attack potential, but still he delays. He somehow ignores the risk
> > > he's incurring daily.
> > That's because he's been infected by unreasoning panic, spread
> > irresponsibly by public health officials. It might kill him.
> > >> Then there is the normal enjoyment of life. How much is it worth to
> > >> be
> > >> able to attend a wedding, a graduation, a funeral? How much to be able
> > >> to hold a new grandchild? Be with a dying parent? How about just
> > >> riding down to the local coffee house to have a coffee, or the one four
> > >> towns and a state over, if you feel like it? That's worth something to
> > >> me.
> > >> How much do you suppose you would have to pay Mr. Krygowski to give
> > >> up
> > >> religious services and playing music with his friends for a year? I'll
> > >> bet it's a check I don't want to write.
> > >
> > > You've lost that bet already. We stayed away from church during the
> > > worst of the pandemic. We had no music gigs, and our informal sessions
> > > were extremely sparse and held only when we could play outdoors,
> > > distanced from each other.
> > I remember being surprised by your descriptions of music gigs and church
> > services at a time when they were prohibited where I live. My point is
> > that if it would take, say $100K to get you to voluntarily hole up for a
> > year, then making you do it makes the world poorer by $100K.
> > >> How about Mr. Muzi, to remain
> > >> celibate, assuming he's not allowed out of the house? That's what got
> > >> Neil Ferguson, he couldn't stay away from his mistress all the while he
> > >> was telling everyone in the UK they had to stay home. For that matter,
> > >> how much would you have to pay the median well-coiffed individual to
> > >> give up hair cuts for a year?
> > >
> > > A friend of mine has a term for those horrors. He calls them "First
> > > World Problems" as in, "This coffee isn't as quite as good as the $6
> > > cup from my favorite artisan roaster. I want my money back!"
> > >
> > > Compare that with a Third World Problem: "How will we get any water today??"
> > Covid restrictions were very hard in the third world, because they
> > prevented people from making enough to eat. Still, they were applied.
> > > I'm deeply sorry about people who may have missed their pedicures, or
> > > whatever frivolities they consider necessary for life. But we enjoyed
> > > riding roads that were nearly empty of traffic, bicycling areas that
> > > were normally much less accessible. (One local golf course was closed,
> > > so we rode every golf cart track and while there spotted bird species
> > > we seldom see.) It was nice to see a greatly increased number of
> > > locals bicycling or walking around neighborhoods, and to chat with
> > > them. I pulled out vinyl albums I hadn't played for years and
> > > refreshed those memories. I finished a years-long sundial project and
> > > had an article about it published. I learned to play a new musical
> > > instrument. Oh, and we never once ran out of toilet paper.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you have more exacting standards for what constitutes a good
> > > life. But again, remember that low standards are the key to happiness..
> As he has done all along Frank cannot keep himself from talking about things he doesn't know and cannot understand. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Frank doesn't drive around wearing his mask in a car with all the windows closed. There is not the slightest hint of science in anything he has ever said. He is "smart" because a piece of paper he probably has mounted prominently framed in his front hallway says that he is smart. This idiotic belief that the only way one may gain information is in a classroom started largely with Obama who 4 years into his Presidency was still blaming Bush for every one of his own failures. Before that the idea that working experience was by far the best teacher was the common idea.

So before Obama cam along and destroyed everything, doctors learned how to do surgery by cutting someone open and playing around and hoping they did the right stuff. Doctors were not educated with books and teachers before? They were just thrown into an operating room and told to just start cutting and learn as they go. Hmmmm. Did not know that.

> Certainly there was room for the classroom and extended education, but that sort of need was RARE and not common.

See my doctor comments above. What about mechanical or civil engineers who build bridges and roads and buildings? Do they need to be educated first? Or should they just build something and if it stays up, its a success. If it falls down, then they learn something and repeat until they stop building stuff that falls down. How long do you think that takes? 10 bridges or roads or buildings? Kill 100 or 1000 people? Or is it 100 bridges and buildings before they know everything? Just 10,000 deaths?

> In far too many cases I have shown PhD's to be idiotic. Who with any education in the real world would set a safe period to empty poison gas out of a chamber to the calculated period without at least 100% safety factor? Instead they gave me the minimum time they calculated. Was the destruction in my lungs cause by my 20% early entry into the chamber or from the continuous poisoning from no safety factor?
>
> I have never figured out why those PhD's would say that my project couldn't possibly be completed without TWO IBM supercomputers. Luckily the third PhD knew that I was on the right track. Lives were saved rather than expensive hardware purchased to play with. The software PhD, that I employed didn't seem to be any better than the other two who had BS's. So why were they willing to hire him at inflated wages while NOT showing me the resume's of highly qualified people that didn't have a degree? This put a thousand people out of work since the degreed people could NOT do the work with no experience other than classroom. I'm sure that with experience they became successful. One I know works at Cisco. This after he was fired from there and rehired because they had NO applicants with degrees and companies like Cisco have to have "the best".

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Can you imagine some TV moron telling us that GPS tracking isn't all that accurate? The government themselves say that the WORST accuracy of GPS is 16 feet, But in fact the normal accuracy is a couple of feet. My GPS actually shows where I am in my own house accurately from the front bedroom, front room at the entry doorway, the family room and the backyard,. My home is only 1,550 square feet and the lot is small as
> >well. I have said this before - I watched Fauci in a news conference being asked why he instituted lockdowns since people were going broke and he said that he had made $9 Million.
> Amazing. I didn't know that Covid-19 politics were related to the US
> government's stated accuracy of the GPS system. Also, I didn't know
> that house floor space and lot size affect GPS operation. Wow. Any
> clue on how it all works?
>
> Civilian GPS accuracy is about 5 meters outdoors and 10 meters
> indoors. This can be greatly improved using post processing error
> correction, choke ring antenna (to minimize reflections), additional
> satellites (GLONASS, GALILEO), real time corrections (WAAS), data
> averaging, ground based pseudolites, high sensitivity receiver,
> cellular assist (A-GPS), wi-fi assist, etc. The error is also
> affected by atmospherics, reflections, foliage, RF interference, etc.
> It's difficult to provide an estimate on what you might expect
> indoors, where I would expect lower signal levels and considerable
> reflections. Depending on which of the accuracy improving features
> are available in your unspecified GPS receiver, you should be able to
> achieve cm accuracy.
>
> Using the Mobile Topographer Android app:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applicality.mobiletopographergis>
> I'm seeing 5.4m accuracy with no averaging, and 1.03m accuracy with
> 360 samples (at 1 sample per second) averaged on my Moto G Power
> (2020) phone. Note that this is indoors, surrounded by 150ft trees,
> on the side of a steep hill, and near all my electronic gizmos. I'm
> using 15 out of 23 "visible" satellites (GPS 5/10, GLONASS 6/8 and
> GALILEO 4/6). Quite good, methinks.
>
> However, since you're quite correct that GPS is more accurate than
> your unspecified source claimed, you should thank Fauci for the
> improvements. I realize that there's no connection between GPS and
> Fauci, but thanking him is consistent with your amazing logic.
> >Why can't you find that on Google?
> Well, there are several possibilities:
> 1. You don't know how to use Google search.
> 2. You didn't provide Google with enough information to find
> anything.
> 3. Whatever you're looking for doesn't exist.
> 4. Google is blocking results for various evil reasons.
> 5. It's a conspiracy to suppress your wrong information.
>
> There are alternative search engines:
> <https://www.searchenginejournal.com/alternative-search-engines/271409/>
> <https://www.teachthought.com/learning/search-engines/>
> <https://www.stanventures.com/blog/top-search-engines-list/>
>
> For entertainment, try Yandex (direct from Putinland).
> "Russia’s war hits Yandex, the ‘Google of Russia’"
> <https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/16/russia-yandex-news-vk/>
> Warning: They really want your mobile phone number.
>
> Maybe you should just use Bing. Bing has some really nice daily
> wallpaper for your phone, PC, or Chromebook:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.bing.wallpapers>
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/bing/bing-wallpaper>
> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wallpaper-from-bing-for-c/kkppgecgiljdncapddmdeeonpfaboepi>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

When I clicked on your Chrome wallpaper link above it brought up the Arc de Triomphe. I have been there and seen it in person. Cool. Tour de France always end there too. Cool.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:53:52 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Maybe you should just use Bing. Bing has some really nice daily
>> wallpaper for your phone, PC, or Chromebook:
>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wallpaper-from-bing-for-c/kkppgecgiljdncapddmdeeonpfaboepi>

>When I clicked on your Chrome wallpaper link above it brought up the Arc de Triomphe. I have been there and seen it in person. Cool. Tour de France always end there too. Cool.

That's just a low-resolution sample. Besides the good composition and
retouching, I like that the images are intended to be used for
wallpaper. I have a very cluttered desktop screen crammed full of
icons. Unlike some other random wallpaper, the Bing wallpaper does a
good job of not obscuring the icon or the icon labels. Not perfect,
but better than most.

More Bing wallpaper samples:
<https://bing.gifposter.com>
<https://peapix.com/bing>
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bing+wallpaper+of+the+day>

A quick way to see l'image du jour is to just open the Bing search
page in a web browser with:
<https://www.bing.com>
The background wallpaper is the image of the day.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Am 17.05.2022 um 05:31 schrieb John B.:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And secondly how do you
>>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
>>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>>
>> You don't. You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
>> car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
>> reaching the crosswalk.
>
> And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have different
> stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer with two 40
> ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably further to
> stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".

Actually, in Germany red light cameras need to take two photos.

If picture 1 is missing the vehicle might have entered at yellow and
olny left at red.
If picture 2 is missing the vehicle might have crossed the stop line but
not entered the intersection (slightly botched intent to stop at the
stop line).

Rolf

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 4:20:43 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Can you imagine some TV moron telling us that GPS tracking isn't all that accurate? The government themselves say that the WORST accuracy of GPS is 16 feet, But in fact the normal accuracy is a couple of feet. My GPS actually shows where I am in my own house accurately from the front bedroom, front room at the entry doorway, the family room and the backyard,. My home is only 1,550 square feet and the lot is small as
> >well. I have said this before - I watched Fauci in a news conference being asked why he instituted lockdowns since people were going broke and he said that he had made $9 Million.
>
> Amazing. I didn't know that Covid-19 politics were related to the US
> government's stated accuracy of the GPS system.

"This is a bicycle.tech group but it has long since become a political discussion group as these people can only offer opinions and not actual bicycle..tech discussions." - Tom Kunich

"I do bicycle tech too, but I do it elsewhere because I got bored with the slime on RBT burnishing their self-esteem (which is justifiably low but still not low enough to repay you for your vicious behaviour) through reacting to tech input according to the poster’s political beliefs." - andre jute

> Also, I didn't know
> that house floor space and lot size affect GPS operation.

That's ok, tommy thinks PWM is a common cable testing technique., so....

> Wow. Any
> clue on how it all works?

lol....what do _you_ think?

TBH - I'm more amused with how he flipped over to GPS, when there was no mention of before that in this thread. I did see this comment from him recently:

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/SMpsUfy8pTc/m/iXG1lIh4AgAJ

But there he was blaming the NYT for not believing him. Could it be that he thinks the NYT is a video broadcast outlet?

>
> Civilian GPS accuracy is about 5 meters outdoors and 10 meters
> indoors. This can be greatly improved using post processing error
> correction, choke ring antenna (to minimize reflections), additional
> satellites (GLONASS, GALILEO), real time corrections (WAAS), data
> averaging, ground based pseudolites, high sensitivity receiver,
> cellular assist (A-GPS), wi-fi assist, etc. The error is also
> affected by atmospherics, reflections, foliage, RF interference, etc.
> It's difficult to provide an estimate on what you might expect
> indoors, where I would expect lower signal levels and considerable
> reflections. Depending on which of the accuracy improving features
> are available in your unspecified GPS receiver, you should be able to
> achieve cm accuracy.
>
> Using the Mobile Topographer Android app:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applicality.mobiletopographergis>
> I'm seeing 5.4m accuracy with no averaging, and 1.03m accuracy with
> 360 samples (at 1 sample per second) averaged on my Moto G Power
> (2020) phone. Note that this is indoors, surrounded by 150ft trees,
> on the side of a steep hill, and near all my electronic gizmos. I'm
> using 15 out of 23 "visible" satellites (GPS 5/10, GLONASS 6/8 and
> GALILEO 4/6). Quite good, methinks.
>
> However, since you're quite correct that GPS is more accurate than
> your unspecified source claimed, you should thank Fauci for the
> improvements. I realize that there's no connection between GPS and
> Fauci, but thanking him is consistent with your amazing logic.
> >Why can't you find that on Google?
> Well, there are several possibilities:
> 1. You don't know how to use Google search.
> 2. You didn't provide Google with enough information to find
> anything.
> 3. Whatever you're looking for doesn't exist.
> 4. Google is blocking results for various evil reasons.
> 5. It's a conspiracy to suppress your wrong information.

6. All of the above

>
> There are alternative search engines:
> <https://www.searchenginejournal.com/alternative-search-engines/271409/>
> <https://www.teachthought.com/learning/search-engines/>
> <https://www.stanventures.com/blog/top-search-engines-list/>
>
> For entertainment, try Yandex (direct from Putinland).
> "Russia’s war hits Yandex, the ‘Google of Russia’"
> <https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/16/russia-yandex-news-vk/>
> Warning: They really want your mobile phone number.
>
> Maybe you should just use Bing. Bing has some really nice daily
> wallpaper for your phone, PC, or Chromebook:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.bing.wallpapers>
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/bing/bing-wallpaper>
> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wallpaper-from-bing-for-c/kkppgecgiljdncapddmdeeonpfaboepi>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 5/16/2022 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:14:11 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or better yet, have the USA take Covid more seriously. You seem to
>>>> love the Republican methodology of labeling someone evil and thus
>>>> branding them. But that does not work too well. The Chinese
>>>> overall government system is less than ideal. Yet it has allowed
>>>> 1.4 billion people to sort of flourish. Sort of. If the USA had
>>>> 1.4 billion people, could democracy work? India has about as many
>>>> people as China and I am not sure India is thriving. India is
>>>> supposedly a democracy. Its often reported that Eisenhower was
>>>> amazed at the road network in Germany after the war. He saw how
>>>> beneficial it was. And implemented it in the USA. Just because
>>>> Germany was run by Nazi Hitler, does not mean they did not do some
>>>> things right. Dictator Stalin fought Germany to a standstill and
>>>> eventually repulsed them. In that case maybe having a dictator was
>>>> the best way to fight Hitler. So dictator Stalin was good. In that
>>>> one and only situation.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> As they say..."Il Duce made the trains run on time"...Sorry Russel,
>>> I don't see the upside to totalitarian dictatorships, regardless of
>>> how well the trains run.
>>
>> But didn't the Athenians, who invented democracy, had provisions for
>> the appointment of a "dictator", a single, all powerful, leader,
>> during wars?
>>
>
> As did the Roman republic, among other examples.

The dictatorship was supposed to be temporary, as in Cincinnatus saving
the republic and then returning to plow his fields. Such ideals are
admirable, but no civilization seems to be able to keep them for too
long. I think we're closer to the "Caligula makes his horse a senator"
phase.

On 5/16/2022 10:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And secondly how do you
>>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
>>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>>
>> You don't. You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
>> car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
>> reaching the crosswalk.
>
> And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have different
> stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer with two 40
> ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably further to
> stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".
>

The law once prohibited entering an intersection on a
red[1]. In theory the yellow is long enough to allow a
proper safe stop.

But then cameras which necessitated short yellows to enhance
revenue and insure that every official's palms were
adequately greased. We've discussed this previously.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/37888

[1]https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/VI/37
I'm not an expert on other states or case law.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 10 May 2022 11:21:08 -0400, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> But why rag on hard hats when we've just seen most of the world forced
>> to learn a new pointless performative PPE dance? Walk up to the door of
>> the pub, drag a minimal face rag out of your pocket, put it on, walk to
>> your table, take it off and put it in your pocket. Eat, drink, and be
>> merry until you have to stand up and walk to the john, then put the
>> nasty contaminated face rag on until you get back to the table. Sit
>> down, take it off ...
>
> I take off my helmet, draw my veil down, throw it back over the top of
> my head when eating, draw it down again, after leaving the building, I
> throw it back over the top of my head, adjust it so that no part
> sticks out in front of my mirror, and put my mirror holder back on.
>
> And, um, "PPE" stands for "personal protective equipement". Masks are
> designed to keep your snot and spittal off other people. A study has
> shown (surprise!) that they do provide some slight protection to the
> wearer, but that is not why they are worn.

An N95 mask, for example, was most definitely designed as personal
protective equipment. The idea that it was useful for protecting other
people was made up for the covid pandemic as a useful fable. Surgeons
and others in the operating room have worn masks for quite some time,
but the idea is to control infection by larger droplets than are
responsible for covid transmission. The available evidence also
suggests that that does not work either:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01658736

> The ordinary pleated mask is a *handkerchief*. Only handkerchief
> precautions apply. (But we used to collect handkerchiefs used by sick
> people people in a paper bag, and burn them bag and all.)

As far as I know all US mask mandates have been satisfiable by wearing a
handkerchief, train-robber style.

On 5/17/2022 8:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
>> On 5/16/2022 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:14:11 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or better yet, have the USA take Covid more seriously. You seem to
>>>>> love the Republican methodology of labeling someone evil and thus
>>>>> branding them. But that does not work too well. The Chinese
>>>>> overall government system is less than ideal. Yet it has allowed
>>>>> 1.4 billion people to sort of flourish. Sort of. If the USA had
>>>>> 1.4 billion people, could democracy work? India has about as many
>>>>> people as China and I am not sure India is thriving. India is
>>>>> supposedly a democracy. Its often reported that Eisenhower was
>>>>> amazed at the road network in Germany after the war. He saw how
>>>>> beneficial it was. And implemented it in the USA. Just because
>>>>> Germany was run by Nazi Hitler, does not mean they did not do some
>>>>> things right. Dictator Stalin fought Germany to a standstill and
>>>>> eventually repulsed them. In that case maybe having a dictator was
>>>>> the best way to fight Hitler. So dictator Stalin was good. In that
>>>>> one and only situation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As they say..."Il Duce made the trains run on time"...Sorry Russel,
>>>> I don't see the upside to totalitarian dictatorships, regardless of
>>>> how well the trains run.
>>>
>>> But didn't the Athenians, who invented democracy, had provisions for
>>> the appointment of a "dictator", a single, all powerful, leader,
>>> during wars?
>>>
>>
>> As did the Roman republic, among other examples.
>
> The dictatorship was supposed to be temporary, as in Cincinnatus saving
> the republic and then returning to plow his fields. Such ideals are
> admirable, but no civilization seems to be able to keep them for too
> long. I think we're closer to the "Caligula makes his horse a senator"
> phase.
>

She's Vice President now.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/17/2022 8:59 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 11:21:08 -0400, Radey Shouman
>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> But why rag on hard hats when we've just seen most of the world forced
>>> to learn a new pointless performative PPE dance? Walk up to the door of
>>> the pub, drag a minimal face rag out of your pocket, put it on, walk to
>>> your table, take it off and put it in your pocket. Eat, drink, and be
>>> merry until you have to stand up and walk to the john, then put the
>>> nasty contaminated face rag on until you get back to the table. Sit
>>> down, take it off ...
>>
>> I take off my helmet, draw my veil down, throw it back over the top of
>> my head when eating, draw it down again, after leaving the building, I
>> throw it back over the top of my head, adjust it so that no part
>> sticks out in front of my mirror, and put my mirror holder back on.
>>
>> And, um, "PPE" stands for "personal protective equipement". Masks are
>> designed to keep your snot and spittal off other people. A study has
>> shown (surprise!) that they do provide some slight protection to the
>> wearer, but that is not why they are worn.
>
> An N95 mask, for example, was most definitely designed as personal
> protective equipment. The idea that it was useful for protecting other
> people was made up for the covid pandemic as a useful fable. Surgeons
> and others in the operating room have worn masks for quite some time,
> but the idea is to control infection by larger droplets than are
> responsible for covid transmission. The available evidence also
> suggests that that does not work either:
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf
>
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01658736
>
>> The ordinary pleated mask is a *handkerchief*. Only handkerchief
>> precautions apply. (But we used to collect handkerchiefs used by sick
>> people people in a paper bag, and burn them bag and all.)
>
> As far as I know all US mask mandates have been satisfiable by wearing a
> handkerchief, train-robber style.
>

+1
All about power and virtue signalling. A chunk of tee shirt
with ear loops isn't slowing down any aerosol virus.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/17/2022 10:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 8:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 5/16/2022 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:14:11 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>>>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-4,
>>>>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or better yet, have the USA take Covid more seriously. You seem to
>>>>>> love the Republican methodology of labeling someone evil and thus
>>>>>> branding them. But that does not work too well. The Chinese
>>>>>> overall government system is less than ideal. Yet it has allowed
>>>>>> 1.4 billion people to sort of flourish. Sort of. If the USA had
>>>>>> 1.4 billion people, could democracy work? India has about as many
>>>>>> people as China and I am not sure India is thriving. India is
>>>>>> supposedly a democracy. Its often reported that Eisenhower was
>>>>>> amazed at the road network in Germany after the war. He saw how
>>>>>> beneficial it was. And implemented it in the USA. Just because
>>>>>> Germany was run by Nazi Hitler, does not mean they did not do some
>>>>>> things right. Dictator Stalin fought Germany to a standstill and
>>>>>> eventually repulsed them. In that case maybe having a dictator was
>>>>>> the best way to fight Hitler. So dictator Stalin was good. In that
>>>>>> one and only situation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As they say..."Il Duce made the trains run on time"...Sorry Russel,
>>>>> I don't see the upside to totalitarian dictatorships, regardless of
>>>>> how well the trains run.
>>>>
>>>> But didn't the Athenians, who invented democracy, had provisions for
>>>> the appointment of a "dictator", a single, all powerful, leader,
>>>> during wars?
>>>>
>>>
>>> As did the Roman republic, among other examples.
>>
>> The dictatorship was supposed to be temporary, as in Cincinnatus saving
>> the republic and then returning to plow his fields.  Such ideals are
>> admirable, but no civilization seems to be able to keep them for too
>> long.  I think we're closer to the "Caligula makes his horse a senator"
>> phase.
>>
>
> She's Vice President now.

Sarah Palin would have been so much more fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/17/2022 9:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 10:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And secondly how do you
>>>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
>>>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>>>
>>> You don't.  You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
>>> car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
>>> reaching the crosswalk.
>>
>> And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have different
>> stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer with two 40
>> ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably further to
>> stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".
>>
>
> The law once prohibited entering an intersection on a red[1]. In theory
> the yellow is long enough to allow a proper safe stop.
>
> But then cameras which necessitated short yellows to enhance revenue and
> insure that every official's palms were adequately greased. We've
> discussed this previously.
>
> http://www.poi-factory.com/node/37888

If short yellows were at all a consistent problem, hundreds of lawyers
would get rich fighting them. It would be an easy case to win.

We had (or maybe still have?) a class action lawsuit going regarding
speed cameras. One jurisdiction's police department used a camera to
ticket people going at least ten miles per hour over what the sign said.
Some lawyer found that the State Highway Department had the wrong sign
posted. He's suing the jurisdiction that ran the speed camera.

Please note that every one of the ticketed motorists was in violation of
both the existing sign AND the sign that should have been there.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/17/2022 10:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 9:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/16/2022 10:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
>>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B.
>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And secondly how do you
>>>>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is
>>>>> until he
>>>>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>>>>
>>>> You don't. You measure whether, when the light changed
>>>> to yellow, the
>>>> car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely
>>>> before
>>>> reaching the crosswalk.
>>>
>>> And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have
>>> different
>>> stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer
>>> with two 40
>>> ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably
>>> further to
>>> stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".
>>>
>>
>> The law once prohibited entering an intersection on a
>> red[1]. In theory the yellow is long enough to allow a
>> proper safe stop.
>>
>> But then cameras which necessitated short yellows to
>> enhance revenue and insure that every official's palms
>> were adequately greased. We've discussed this previously.
>>
>> http://www.poi-factory.com/node/37888
>
> If short yellows were at all a consistent problem, hundreds
> of lawyers would get rich fighting them. It would be an easy
> case to win.
>
> We had (or maybe still have?) a class action lawsuit going
> regarding speed cameras. One jurisdiction's police
> department used a camera to ticket people going at least ten
> miles per hour over what the sign said. Some lawyer found
> that the State Highway Department had the wrong sign posted.
> He's suing the jurisdiction that ran the speed camera.
>
> Please note that every one of the ticketed motorists was in
> violation of both the existing sign AND the sign that should
> have been there.
>
>

Lawyers seldom miss an opportunity. For which they need at
least some evidence to avoid summary dismissal:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-yellow-light-timing-met-20141223-story.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chicago-red-light-cameras_n_491852

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-red-light-camera-yellow-timing-20141009-story.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/judge-determines-yellow-light-too-short-throws-out-red-light-tickets/

and so on...
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/17/2022 12:48 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:54:23 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> As he has done all along Frank cannot keep himself from talking about things he doesn't know and cannot understand. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Frank doesn't drive around wearing his mask in a car with all the windows closed. There is not the slightest hint of science in anything he has ever said. He is "smart" because a piece of paper he probably has mounted prominently framed in his front hallway says that he is smart. This idiotic belief that the only way one may gain information is in a classroom started largely with Obama who 4 years into his Presidency was still blaming Bush for every one of his own failures. Before that the idea that working experience was by far the best teacher was the common idea.
>
> So before Obama cam along and destroyed everything, doctors learned how to do surgery by cutting someone open and playing around and hoping they did the right stuff. Doctors were not educated with books and teachers before? They were just thrown into an operating room and told to just start cutting and learn as they go. Hmmmm. Did not know that.
>
>
>> Certainly there was room for the classroom and extended education, but that sort of need was RARE and not common.
>
> See my doctor comments above. What about mechanical or civil engineers who build bridges and roads and buildings? Do they need to be educated first? Or should they just build something and if it stays up, its a success. If it falls down, then they learn something and repeat until they stop building stuff that falls down.

Does Tom have a son named Calvin? ;-)

See https://i.imgur.com/q1vI70y.gif

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/17/2022 12:53 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:20:43 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Maybe you should just use Bing. Bing has some really nice daily
>> wallpaper for your phone, PC, or Chromebook:
>> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.bing.wallpapers>
>> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/bing/bing-wallpaper>
>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wallpaper-from-bing-for-c/kkppgecgiljdncapddmdeeonpfaboepi>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> When I clicked on your Chrome wallpaper link above it brought up the Arc de Triomphe. I have been there and seen it in person. Cool. Tour de France always end there too. Cool.

How many here have bicycled the Arc's roundabout?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/17/2022 3:49 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 17.05.2022 um 05:31 schrieb John B.:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:34:27 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:18:07 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And secondly how do you
>>>> propose to determine what the individual's "intent" is until he
>>>> actually does whatever you anticipate he might to do.
>>>
>>> You don't.  You measure whether, when the light changed to yellow, the
>>> car was far enough from the intersection to stop safely before
>>> reaching the crosswalk.
>>
>> And how do you do that? Different vehicles will have different
>> stopping rates or distances. A truck, hauling a trailer with two 40
>> ft. shipping containers aboard will require considerably further to
>> stop from, oh say 40 mph, then a light weight "sports car".
>
> Actually, in Germany red light cameras need to take two photos.
>
> If picture 1 is missing the vehicle might have entered at yellow and
> olny left at red.
> If picture 2 is missing the vehicle might have crossed the stop line but
> not entered the intersection (slightly botched intent to stop at the
> stop line).

Do those cameras have a beneficial effect? That is, did they reduce red
light violations?

And what's the public's attitude toward them?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:21:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Do those cameras have a beneficial effect? That is, did they reduce red
>light violations?

Nope. Red light cameras increase accidents:
<https://ww2.motorists.org/issues/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents/>

>And what's the public's attitude toward them?

Dunno. I helped a friend deal with a $490 red light camera fine in
Capitola Calif. He had two dashboard camera videos, front and rear,
which included GPS generated speed indicators. I arranged for the
independent calibration tests, which showed that the GPS speed
indicators were more accurate than the one in the traffic camera due
to a badly programmed slant angle. After a few seconds of
contemplation, the judge dropped the charges due to a "possible
equipment failure". Capitola tried to collect it anyway, which is
another story.

If there is a bad attitude towards speed cameras, methinks it's mostly
due to the cities using violations to enhance revenue. Any
improvements in safety are lost in the noise. A predictable result is
for the cities to encourage violations, rather than discourage them,
as the cameras were originally intended to do.

My guess(tm) is that vehicles will eventually require flight
recorders, which will record everything. When the vehicle sensor
network detects a violation, the owners debit card is automatically
charged for the infraction, with some percentage of the fine going to
the various operating companies that made this nightmare possible.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 5/17/2022 11:07 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:21:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Do those cameras have a beneficial effect? That is, did they reduce red
>> light violations?
>
> Nope. Red light cameras increase accidents:
> <https://ww2.motorists.org/issues/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents/>

Yeah, one of my fears is that if I stop for a red light, that the car
behind me thinks that I'm going to run (and they plan to run it too)
will rear-end my car. You can't be too conservative in your approach to
traffic lights. If the light turns yellow, you can be pretty certain
that the line of cars behind you has no intention of stopping when the
light turns red. Similarly, when the light turns green I wait a couple
of seconds before going because it's likely that there will be at least
a couple of cars that run the red light on the perpendicular street.

On 5/17/2022 1:51 PM, sms wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 11:07 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:21:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Do those cameras have a beneficial effect? That is, did
>>> they reduce red
>>> light violations?
>>
>> Nope. Red light cameras increase accidents:
>> <https://ww2.motorists.org/issues/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents/>
>>
>
> Yeah, one of my fears is that if I stop for a red light,
> that the car behind me thinks that I'm going to run (and
> they plan to run it too) will rear-end my car. You can't be
> too conservative in your approach to traffic lights. If the
> light turns yellow, you can be pretty certain that the line
> of cars behind you has no intention of stopping when the
> light turns red. Similarly, when the light turns green I
> wait a couple of seconds before going because it's likely
> that there will be at least a couple of cars that run the
> red light on the perpendicular street.
>
>

Yep.

https://www.kenallenlaw.com/2014/12/red-light-cameras-rear-end-crashes-chicago-debate/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/major-chicago-study-finds-red-light-cameras-not-safer-cause-more-rear-end-injuries/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971