Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>
> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)

It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)

Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
<https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
> >
> > :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
> It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
> hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
> care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
>
> Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
> <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>

Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.

Sepp, what does Germany propose to do about passage of hostile Russian warships? Call them names? Germany has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare that is paralyzed by their own system. I suppose that is the natural outcome of all of the great leaders of Germany being eliminated and America protecting them so that none were needed for too long.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 7:05:58 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> >>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> >>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> >>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> >>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> >>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> >>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> >>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> >>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> >>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> >>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> >>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> >>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> >>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> >>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> >>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> >>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> >>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> >>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> >>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> >>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> >>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> >>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> >>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> >>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> >>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> >>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> >>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> >>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> >>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> >>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> >>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> >>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> >>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> >>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> >>>>>>>> WW2.
> >>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> >>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> >>>>>>> April, 1971
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> >>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> >>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> >>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> >>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> >>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> >>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> >>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> >>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> >>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> >>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> >>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> >>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> >>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> >>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> >>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> >>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> >>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> >>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> >>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> >>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> >>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> >>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> >>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> >>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> >>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> >>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> >>>>>> bike?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win..212352/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>> now.
> >>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> >>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> >>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> >>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> >>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> >>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> >>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> >>>> message.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> >>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> >>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> >>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> >>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> >>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>
> >>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> >>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> >>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> >>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> >>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> >>>
> >>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> >>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> >>> Products section of this webpage.
> >>>
> >>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> >>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> >>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> >>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> >>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> >> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> >> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> >> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> >> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>
> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> >> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >
> > OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> > as usual.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> >>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> >>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> >>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> >>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>
> >>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> >>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> >>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> >> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> >> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> >> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >
> > Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> > school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> > murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> > time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> > deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> > beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> > concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> > just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> > And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> > lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> > tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> > On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> > >> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> > >>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> > >>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> >> >> > >>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> >> >> > >>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >> >> > >>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
> >> >> > >>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >> >> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >> >> > >>>> M1 in .308.
> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> > >>>> Andrew Muzi
> >> >> > >>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> >> > >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
> >> >> > >>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >> >> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >> >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >> >> > >> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >> >> > >> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> > >> Andrew Muzi
> >> >> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> >> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >> >> > outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >> >> > https://thecmp.org/about/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >> >> > now.
> >> >> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >> >
> >> >What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
> >> >
> >> >Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
> >> >See the Products section of this webpage.
> >> >
> >> >"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> >> >This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
> >> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
> >> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> >> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
> >> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>
> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
> >> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >
> >OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it..
> >> >
> >> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> >> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> >> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> >> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >
> >Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >
> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
> U.S.".
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
>>>>>
>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>>>>
>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>>>
>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>
>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>>>
>> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>> U.S.".
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
>

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:34:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>
>If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
>problem.
>
>Gun fetishists can't admit that.

But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
from sale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
"The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."

Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:28:59 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles.. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>>>> now.
> >>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
> >>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> >>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP.. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
> >>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force..
> >>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> >>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
> >>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>>>
> >>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
> >>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >>>
> >>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> >>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> >>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> >>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> >>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >>>
> >>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >>>
> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
> >> U.S.".
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
> >
> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also
> with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>
> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for
> years.
>
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health

On 6/2/2022 5:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>>>
>>> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
>> It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
>> hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
>> care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
>>
>> Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
>> <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>
>
> Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.

Tom Kunich: "... Germany [is] directly adjacent to Russia ..."

And Tom still furiously tries to pretend that's true. :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/2/2022 6:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Here, people like Frank, Scharf, Russell and Flunky would be easily classified as mentally ill simply by their postings on this group.

The Irony Meter just went deeply into its red zone! :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> ...   But how do you
>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the
>> mentally ill people in the world?  Why don't other countries have an
>> equal number of mentally ill people? ...
>
> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also with
> extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>
> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for years.
>
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health

Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth Disparity as a topic!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 10:18:58 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>
>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
>>> with a gun"
>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
>>> hospitals to take
>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
>>>
>>> What's the learning?
>>
>> damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
>>
>> And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
>> dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
>> of ever paying them lavish retirements.
>
>Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
>
>https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/

The problem with all this hoop-a-la about the Texas shooting is that
the claims about "You din do that" are all made by people who weren't
there, who are sitting behind a desk with no chances of being shot and
killed.

Now, I have been in situations where there was, or I thought that
there was a very good chance of me getting killed and I can assure you
that the primary thought was, "how can I get out of this without
dying".

And yes I know, you are going to say "Yare but"... cops are supposed
to be brave. But in reality Cops are just people. If you know that
there is an armed shooter in that room and if you push the door open
there is a very good possibility that he will shoot you. Will you be
first to open the door?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/2/2022 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:34:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>
>> If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
>> problem.
>>
>> Gun fetishists can't admit that.
>
> But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
> from sale.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
> "The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
> is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
> firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."
>
> Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.

As we said just a few days ago: There were fewer mass shootings during
the time the law was in effect, a clearly significant difference.
Regarding other aspects of gun violence, evaluations differ somewhat
(and we can guess why).

But it's notable that the law merely banned the manufacture and sale of
_new_ rapid fire, combat-style guns. It did nothing about the millions
of such guns already in circulation, fondly cuddled by gun fetishists,
gang bangers and total whackos. IOW, the law temporarily stopped an
actual _increase_ in the supply of those guns and the profits made by
pushing them. It did nothing to actually reduce the supply.

And after the law expired, the supply soared even higher. So did the
number of mass shootings.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> > > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> > >>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> > >>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> > >>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> > >>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> > >>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> > >>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> > >>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> > >>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> > >>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> > >>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> > >>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> > >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> > >>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> > >>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> > >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> > >>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> > >>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> > >>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> > >>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> > >>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> > >>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> > >>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> > >>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> > >>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> > >>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> > >>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> > >>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> > >>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> > >>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> > >>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> > >>>>>>>> WW2.
> > >>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> > >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> > >>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> > >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> > >>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> > >>>>>>> April, 1971
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> > >>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> > >>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> > >>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> > >>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> > >>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> > >>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> > >>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> > >>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> > >>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> > >>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> > >>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> > >>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> > >>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> > >>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> > >>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> > >>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> > >>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> > >>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> > >>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> > >>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> > >>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> > >>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> > >>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> > >>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> > >>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> > >>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> > >>>>>> bike?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> > >>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> > >>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> > >>>>> now.
> > >>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> > >>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> > >>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> > >>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> > >>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> > >>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> > >>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> > >>>> message.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> > >>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> > >>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> > >>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> > >>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> > >>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> > >>>
> > >>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> > >>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> > >>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> > >>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> > >>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> > >>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> > >>> Products section of this webpage.
> > >>>
> > >>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> > >>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> > >>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> > >>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> > >>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> > >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> > >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> > >> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> > >> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> > >> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> > >> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> > >>
> > >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> > >> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> > >
> > > OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> > > as usual.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> > >>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> > >>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> > >>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> > >>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> > >>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> > >>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> > >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> > >> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> > >> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> > >> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> > >
> > > Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> > > school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> > > murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> > > time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> > > deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> > > beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> > > concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> > > just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> > > And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> > > lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> > > tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> > NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> > Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> > out a bad guy with a gun"
> >
> > What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> > double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?

On 6/2/2022 5:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:34:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>
>> If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
>> problem.
>>
>> Gun fetishists can't admit that.
>
> But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
> from sale.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
> "The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
> is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
> firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."
>
> Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.
>

Calling a small caliber lightweight semi an 'assault rifle'
doesn't make it so.

'Assault rifles' began in 1944/45:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/04/sturmgewehr-the-stg44-was-the-first-assault-rifle/

But were effectively banned in USA since 1934:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act

moreso in 1968.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/2/2022 6:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> ... Â But how do you
>>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number
>>> of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't
>>> other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>>> people? ...
>>
>> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And
>> also with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>>
>> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that
>> for years.
>>
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>
> Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth
> Disparity as a topic!
>

Do a mental illness assessment in DPRK and let us know how
that turns out. Equal poverty sucks. Freedom to achieve
makes everyone in the society richer (in more than monetary
terms).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/2/2022 6:17 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 10:18:58 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>>> Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>
>>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
>>>> with a gun"
>>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
>>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
>>>> hospitals to take
>>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
>>>>
>>>> What's the learning?
>>>
>>> damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
>>>
>>> And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
>>> dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
>>> of ever paying them lavish retirements.
>>
>> Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
>
> The problem with all this hoop-a-la about the Texas shooting is that
> the claims about "You din do that" are all made by people who weren't
> there, who are sitting behind a desk with no chances of being shot and
> killed.
>
> Now, I have been in situations where there was, or I thought that
> there was a very good chance of me getting killed and I can assure you
> that the primary thought was, "how can I get out of this without
> dying".
>
> And yes I know, you are going to say "Yare but"... cops are supposed
> to be brave. But in reality Cops are just people. If you know that
> there is an armed shooter in that room and if you push the door open
> there is a very good possibility that he will shoot you. Will you be
> first to open the door?
>

Todd Beamer, "Let's roll."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 10:40:13 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:19:05 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > > Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >
> > >> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
> > >> with a gun"
> > >> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > >> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
> > >> hospitals to take
> > >> out a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>
> > >> What's the learning?
> > >
> > > damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
> > >
> > > And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
> > > dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
> > > of ever paying them lavish retirements.
> > Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
> >
> > https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> I am still of the opinion that this was little more than a stagged massacre to give Democrats more power to claim we need gun control. Even the cops on the spot say they were ordered to stand down.
>

Did Tucker and Laura and Qanon just send you some emails to say this? Its pretty much a copy of the Republicans saying it was Democrats dressed up as Trump supporters that stormed the Capital on January 6. I guess they like to reuse the same excuse over and over again. But they need to think up a new explanation. Just to keep their audience interested.

As for the cops not going in and standing down. Several different police chiefs involved. City police chief. School District police chief. Maybe even the National Guard or Border Patrol chiefs were involved too. So no one wanted to take charge in a bad situation if someone else could be blamed or assume responsibility. And none of the ones on the scene were motivated or forced to do anything. So no one acted. Easier to stand around. Especially when their is a murderer with a rifle inside the building. So time went by. Eventually the Border Patrol showed up with heavy duty gear. Lot more safety with heavy duty gear. And then they acted. After getting the Principal to unlock the door. And the shooter was killed, eventually. Lot of mistakes and errors were made. Maybe a lot of extra people died because of it.

> Do you still believe that people died from covid that wouldn't have from the yearly flu?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Go down to Figure 2 on this link. It shows the deaths, hospitalizations, illnesses from flu each year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
No yearly deaths. But go down to the table titled "Total Coronavirus Deaths in the United States" And it has a gold line showing the total death count for Covid. From 2/29/2020 to 6/1/2022. 1,032,646 dead total. Seems to me we are killing a whole lot more with Covid than with flu. But you believe what you want to believe Tommy.

>
> Do you still not understand that the Democrats took the appearance of a mild illness to commit election fraud and attack thge American economy? Why did Pennsyvania just shut down a 400 year supply of natural gas? What do you suppose this will do to the cost of utilities?

Mild illness? Over 1 million dead now. How many would need to die for you to consider it a major illness?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 10:45:17 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>
> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Thanks Frank. I missed that easy one responding to our Tommy boy.

On 6/2/2022 5:41 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 10:45:17 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>>
>> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Thanks Frank. I missed that easy one responding to our Tommy boy.

Well if Russia invades and takes over Poland then Germany would be
adjacent to Russia.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 11:44:52 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:40:13 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:19:05 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > > > Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
> > > >> with a gun"
> > > >> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > > >> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
> > > >> hospitals to take
> > > >> out a bad guy with a gun"
> > > >>
> > > >> What's the learning?
> > > >
> > > > damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
> > > >
> > > > And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
> > > > dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
> > > > of ever paying them lavish retirements.
> > > Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
> > >
> > > https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > I am still of the opinion that this was little more than a stagged massacre to give Democrats more power to claim we need gun control. Even the cops on the spot say they were ordered to stand down.
> >
> > Do you still believe that people died from covid that wouldn't have from the yearly flu?
> >
> > Do you still not understand that the Democrats took the appearance of a mild illness to commit election fraud and attack thge American economy? Why did Pennsyvania just shut down a 400 year supply of natural gas? What do you suppose this will do to the cost of utilities?
> I am told that ass Scharf believes that M2 refers to a specific weapon and not a model of a weapon

Tommy, some model numbers become the gun itself after awhile. Such as the M1 is the M1 Garand. If you say M1, you are talking about the M1 Garand. And the M2 is the Browning M2 BMG. 50 caliber heavy machine gun. Still used today. Invented 1918. M2 means the Browning. No matter what other M1s or M2s are out there in the military, M1 means Garand. M2 means Browning.

Kind of sort of like if you say Ferrari. You mean the Testarossa or the 308. Testarossa from the second half of Miami Vice. Or the 308 from Magnum PI. There are of course lots of other Ferraris. But those are the two that come to mind when you say Ferrari. Or Lamborghini. You always mean the Countach when you say Lamborghini. Even though Lamborghini made lots of other models too. But the only famous one is the Lamborghini Countach.

> There was an M1 machine gun. So why not a Model 2? Why do you suppose that idiot little Jojhn suddenly stopped posting? His Google finally hit the Wikipedia posting that told him what I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine,_Cal_.30,_M2 We always test fired these weapons in semiautomatic since the idea was accuracy and not rapid fire.
>
> The Air Force's job was to protect its aircraft and not to attack an enemy. A large segment of the 600,000 M2 carbies were issued to tha AAF and then the Air Force and the rest were issued to officers while the ground troops carried M1 Garand rifles.
>
> As I've been saying, it is the idiots who know nothing whatsoever about something that continue to post about these things.
>
> What we need more of is Frank who is a gunophobic to tell us more about guns.

On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
>>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
>>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
>>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
>>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
>>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
>>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
>>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
>>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
>>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
>>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
>>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
>>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
>>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
>>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
>>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
>>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
>>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
>>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
>>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
>>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
>>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
>>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
>>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
>>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
>>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
>>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
>>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
>>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
>>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
>>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
>>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
>>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
>>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
>>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
>>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
>>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
>>>>>>>>> bike?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
>>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
>>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
>>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
>>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
>>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
>>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
>>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
>>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
>>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
>>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
>>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
>>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
>>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
>>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
>>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
>>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
>>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
>>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
>>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
>>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
>>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
>>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
>>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
>>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
>>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>>>>>
>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
>>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>>>>
>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
>>>> as usual.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
>>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
>>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
>>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
>>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
>>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
>>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
>>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
>>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
>>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>>
>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
>>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
>>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
>>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
>>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
>>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
>>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
>>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
>>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
>>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
>>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
>>>
>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>
> Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced. It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
> "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D, formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities during World War II."
>
> You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that is the way it works. But not always.
>
> My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually, almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with only one "L".
>
>
>
>
>>
>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>>
>
> You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3 are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand. M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50 caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use your mind to think?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
> The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it. AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber, does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a pistol round. Ha Ha.
>
> Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter. Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
>
>
>
>
>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>
> It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1 Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
>
>
>
>>
>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>
> But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06 round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple science. I would think even you could understand that. But apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people said?
>
> For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed, weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to get it right for accuracy.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>>
>
> We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle instead.
>
> Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
>
> As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids? Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50 miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work than you doing it.
>
>
>
>
>
>> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
>>
>
> https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
> Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad, comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at all.
> Top ten were:
> St. Louis, MO
> Baltimore, MD
> Birmingham, AL
> Detroit, MI
> Dayton, OH
> Baton Rouge, LA
> New Orleans, LA
> Kansas City, MO
> Memphis, TN
> Cleveland, OH
> Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican governors.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
> Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no one ever mentions them.
>
>
>
>
>> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
>>
>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
>
> Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the country. All the way over to the French side from the Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there. Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains. You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> > On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> > >> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> > >>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>> >> >> > >>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>> >> >> > >>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>> >> >> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>> >> >> > >>>> M1 in .308.
>> >> >> > >>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>> Andrew Muzi
>> >> >> > >>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >> >> > >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>> >> >> > >>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>> >> >> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>> >> >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>> >> >> > >> 1950s. Both are very available:
>> >> >> > >> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>> >> >> > >> --
>> >> >> > >> Andrew Muzi
>> >> >> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >> >> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>> >> >> > outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>> >> >> > https://thecmp.org/about/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>> >> >> > now.
>> >> >> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>> >> >
>> >> >What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>> >> >
>> >> >Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>> >> >See the Products section of this webpage.
>> >> >
>> >> >"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>> >> >This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>> >> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>> >> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>> >> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>> >> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>> >>
>> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>> >> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>> >
>> >OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>> >> >
>> >> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>> >> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>> >> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>> >> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>> >
>> >Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>> >
>> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>> U.S.".
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 4:21:15 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
> > >
> > > :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
> > It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
> > hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
> > care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
> >
> > Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
> > <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>
> Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.
>

Tommy is confused again. Russia isn't really much of a sea power. They have very few ports that do not freeze over in the winter. The ones on the east over by North Korea are too far away from everything to be too valuable.. And the weather isn't all that great over there in the winter. The ones on the north by Norway are on the Barents Sea and real close to the Arctic Ocean. They freeze over in the winter. Russia does have some ports on the Black Sea. Year round ports. And they stole Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 to give them more presence in the Black Sea. But Turkey is the dominant country in the Black Sea. Especially because the Black Sea has to go through Turkey to get out to the Mediterranean. Right by Greece.

Now as for the Baltic. Poor confused, stupid Tommy. The Baltic countries are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. They are way up north by Finland, Sweden, Poland, and Kaliningrad. Kaliningrad is the exclave that is part of Russia and has a port on the Baltic Sea. The Black Sea has no connection whatsoever to the Baltic Sea. To get from the Black Sea down south to the Baltic Sea up north. You would have to go through the Bosphorus and Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) and then through the Dardanelles and out into the Mediterranean by Greece. Then go way easy by Italy and Morocco and northern Africa until you get to the Rock of Gibraltar and go out into the Atlantic Ocean. Then go north by Portugal and France until you get into the English Channel. Keep going north until you hit the North Sea and Denmark. Then go into the Baltic Sea by going by Denmark, Germany, Norway, Sweden.

Tommy, you have proven once again that you do not know geography. I wonder how you even manage to get back to your own house after bike rides. Do the police on your side of the Bay just know that whenever they see you, to just pick you up and haul you home. Otherwise your wife, ex-wife, estranged wife, girlfriend, whatever you have, who knows, would file a missing person report every single day.

> Sepp, what does Germany propose to do about passage of hostile Russian warships? Call them names? Germany has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare that is paralyzed by their own system. I suppose that is the natural outcome of all of the great leaders of Germany being eliminated and America protecting them so that none were needed for too long.

I suspect Germany will allow Russian flagged ships to pass peacefully by their coast or outside their territorial waters. Sweden and Denmark own the islands and narrow passageways between the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. Russian ships would have to sail into their territorial waters to get out of the Baltic Sea. If everyone is at peace, then I see no reason for these countries to fire upon the Russian ships. If NATO and Russia officially go to military war, then things might change a bit. But hopefully that will not happen.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 19:35:27 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 6:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> ... Â But how do you
>>>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number
>>>> of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't
>>>> other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>>>> people? ...
>>>
>>> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And
>>> also with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>>>
>>> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that
>>> for years.
>>>
>>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>>
>> Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth
>> Disparity as a topic!
>>
>
>Do a mental illness assessment in DPRK and let us know how
>that turns out. Equal poverty sucks. Freedom to achieve
>makes everyone in the society richer (in more than monetary
>terms).

Well Jeff Bezos employs, and thus might be termed to support, some 1,1
million in the U.S. and 1.6 world wide. I read that there, at the
moment, some 5.9 million unemployed in the U.S. so if Amazon closes
the doors the unemployment rate goes up ~20%.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:28:59 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles.. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>>>> now.
> >>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
> >>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> >>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP.. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
> >>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force..
> >>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> >>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
> >>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>>>
> >>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
> >>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >>>
> >>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> >>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> >>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> >>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> >>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >>>
> >>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >>>
> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
> >> U.S.".
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
> >
> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also
> with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>
> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for
> years.
>
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971