On 6/3/2022 9:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 1:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B.
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in
>>>> itself,...
>>>
>>> I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns
>>> _allowed_ many
>>> people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
>>>
>>>> after all
>>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the
>>>> U.S. that have
>>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't
>>>> have up to the
>>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in
>>>> 2019, that is,
>>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns
>>>> used this to
>>>> murder someone.
>>>
>>> Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey,
>>> 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
>>> Tell that to the families and friends of the victims.
>>> Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> There were 10.258 gun murders
>>
>> There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
>> .In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides
>> by 306.7%.
>> Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
>> Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)
>
> Again, state your point clearly. Is it that nobody should be
> bothered by gun murders? Really?
>

Oh, maybe we ought to have laws against felon in possession,
against shooting at police, against use of a firearm in
commission of a felony, against possessing a stolen firearm.
Oh, well, sort of a lost opportunity I guess. Nothing
left to do but disarm the nonviolent taxpayers.

https://cwbchicago.com/2022/06/suspected-shooter-of-chicago-cop-faced-a-felony-gun-charge-until-prosecutors-dropped-the-case-in-february.html

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 8:21:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 9:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 6/3/2022 9:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or
> >>>>> knives."
> >>>> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> >>>>
> >>>> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> >>>> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> >>>> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> >>>> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
> >>>>
> >>>> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> >>>> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> >>>>
> >>>> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> >>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> >>>
> >>> Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should
> >>> state it more clearly, more blatantly.
> >>> Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass
> >>> shootings every year aren't so bad!
> >>> Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all
> >>> terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
> >>> going back a couple decades!"
> >>>
> >>> That should bring great consolation to the families and
> >>> friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.
> >
> > So people should not be bothered if their loved ones are
> > killed by guns? The parents in Uvalde should not worry that
> > the bodies of their children were literally unrecognizable?
> > We should do nothing to stop gun murders?
> >
> There are not degrees of 'dead'.
>
> https://www.fox5ny.com/news/arrest-hit-and-run-death-mother-of-5

Frank has no interest of how many people are murdered, especially by illegal aliens selling drugs or driving cars or trucks as long ax they don't own an (undefined) "assault" weapon. Frank - I'm waiting for you o commit suicide because you live in such a dangerous world where Republicans are about to regain control of the country.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 8:25:28 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 9:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 6/3/2022 1:40 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B.
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in
> >>>> itself,...
> >>>
> >>> I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns
> >>> _allowed_ many
> >>> people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
> >>>
> >>>> after all
> >>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the
> >>>> U.S. that have
> >>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't
> >>>> have up to the
> >>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in
> >>>> 2019, that is,
> >>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns
> >>>> used this to
> >>>> murder someone.
> >>>
> >>> Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey,
> >>> 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
> >>> Tell that to the families and friends of the victims.
> >>> Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >> There were 10.258 gun murders
> >>
> >> There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
> >> .In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides
> >> by 306.7%.
> >> Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
> >> Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)
> >
> > Again, state your point clearly. Is it that nobody should be
> > bothered by gun murders? Really?
> >
> Oh, maybe we ought to have laws against felon in possession,
> against shooting at police, against use of a firearm in
> commission of a felony, against possessing a stolen firearm.
> Oh, well, sort of a lost opportunity I guess. Nothing
> left to do but disarm the nonviolent taxpayers.
>
> https://cwbchicago.com/2022/06/suspected-shooter-of-chicago-cop-faced-a-felony-gun-charge-until-prosecutors-dropped-the-case-in-february.html

Tell us Frank, why aren't liberal prosecutors not bothered by gun crimes? Why are they refusing to prosecute anyone and especially illegal aliens for gun crimes? And yet you believe that it is proper to take guns away from legal taxpaying citizen and especially if they have that terrifying heat shroud around the barrel so that you can refer to it as an "assault weapon"?

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
>>>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
>>>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
>>>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
>>>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
>>>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
>>>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
>>>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
>>>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
>>>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
>>>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
>>>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
>>>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
>>>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
>>>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
>>>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
>>>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
>>>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
>>>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
>>>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
>>>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
>>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
>>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
>>>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
>>>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
>>>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
>>>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
>>>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
>>>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
>>>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
>>>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
>>>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
>>>>>>>>>> bike?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
>>>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
>>>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
>>>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
>>>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
>>>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
>>>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
>>>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
>>>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
>>>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
>>>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
>>>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
>>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
>>>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
>>>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
>>>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
>>>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
>>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
>>>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
>>>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
>>>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
>>>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
>>>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
>>>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
>>>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
>>>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
>>>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
>>>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
>>>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
>>>>> as usual.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
>>>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
>>>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
>>>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
>>>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
>>>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
>>>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
>>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
>>>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
>>>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
>>>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
>>>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
>>>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
>>>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
>>>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
>>>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
>>>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
>>>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
>>>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
>>>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
>>>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
>>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
>>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
>>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
>>>>
>>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are
> gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there
> isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>>
>> Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced.
> It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no
> production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
>> "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw
> active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope
> mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D,
> formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities
> during World War II."
>>
>> You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical
> order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that
> is the way it works. But not always.
>>
>> My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find
> my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually,
> almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with
> only one "L".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I
> shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that
> fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to
> be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the
> entre war in Europe?
>>>
>>
>> You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force
> rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off
> the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3
> are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is
> the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand.
> M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the
> Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking
> about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone
> automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50
> caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a
> Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to
> say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a
> very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use
> your mind to think?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
>> The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please
> note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The
> .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though
> there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it.
> AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that
> Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just
> because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber,
> does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made
> past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a
> pistol round. Ha Ha.
>>
>> Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt
> 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles
> also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter.
> Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different
> round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>>
>> It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand
> to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1
> Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO
> rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It
> was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the
> USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton
> pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And
> 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you
> choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in
> 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a
> newer .308 isn;t both faster and more
> accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png
> Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>>
>> But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06
> round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more
> gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple
> science. I would think even you could understand that. But
> apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of
> your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people
> said?
>>
>> For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed,
> weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered
> the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or
> lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of
> combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help
> and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to
> get it right for accuracy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with
> hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his
> pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are
> killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but
> because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged
> to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened
> with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed
> to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is
> to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>>>
>>
>> We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list
> of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than
> rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives
> fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out
> by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few
> with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no
> one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their
> belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle
> instead.
>>
>> Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the
> killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is
> that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and
> liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along
> with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door
> into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but
> the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
>>
>> As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police
> force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids?
> Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas
> governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and
> indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was
> the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of
> sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of
> the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50
> miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work
> than you doing it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick
> Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should
> have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between
> two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with
> TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the
> perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the
> strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
>> Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K
> population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad,
> comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at
> all.
>> Top ten were:
>> St. Louis, MO
>> Baltimore, MD
>> Birmingham, AL
>> Detroit, MI
>> Dayton, OH
>> Baton Rouge, LA
>> New Orleans, LA
>> Kansas City, MO
>> Memphis, TN
>> Cleveland, OH
>> Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat
> governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican
> governors.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
>> Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly
> as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no
> one ever mentions them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on
> target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer
> with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum
> which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US
> including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The
> Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at
> 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would
> overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails
> that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of
> your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
>>>
>>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being
> directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like
> Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
>>
>> Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is
> pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the
> country. All the way over to the French side from the
> Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And
> even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is
> mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there.
> Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really
> isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want
> either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a
> few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable
> rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains.
> You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy
> skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long
> ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and
> government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
> why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?
>
>
>>"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
>
> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>
> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>
> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just inches
> ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>
> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting, disruptive
> and goes on for a very long time.
>
> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>
> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>
> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>
> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>
> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
> > On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> >>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> >>>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> >>>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> >>>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> >>>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> >>>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> >>>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> >>>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> >>>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> >>>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> >>>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> >>>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> >>>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> >>>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> >>>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> >>>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> >>>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> >>>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> >>>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> >>>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> >>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> >>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> >>>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> >>>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> >>>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> >>>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> >>>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> >>>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> >>>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> >>>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> >>>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> >>>>>>>>>> bike?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>>>>>> now.
> >>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> >>>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> >>>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> >>>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> >>>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> >>>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> >>>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> >>>>>>>> message.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> >>>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> >>>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> >>>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> >>>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> >>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> >>>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> >>>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> >>>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> >>>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> >>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> >>>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> >>>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> >>>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> >>>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> >>>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> >>>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> >>>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> >>>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> >>>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> >>>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> >>>>> as usual.
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> >>>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> >>>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> >>>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> >>>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> >>>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> >>>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> >>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> >>>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> >>>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> >>>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> >>>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> >>>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> >>>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> >>>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> >>>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> >>>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> >>>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> >>>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> >>>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> >>>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> >>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> >>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> >>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
> >>>>
> >>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> >>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> >>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are
> > gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there
> > isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> >>
> >> Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced.
> > It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no
> > production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
> >> "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw
> > active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope
> > mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D,
> > formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities
> > during World War II."
> >>
> >> You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical
> > order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that
> > is the way it works. But not always.
> >>
> >> My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find
> > my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually,
> > almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with
> > only one "L".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I
> > shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that
> > fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to
> > be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the
> > entre war in Europe?
> >>>
> >>
> >> You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force
> > rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off
> > the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3
> > are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is
> > the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand.
> > M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the
> > Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking
> > about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone
> > automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50
> > caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a
> > Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to
> > say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a
> > very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use
> > your mind to think?
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
> >> The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please
> > note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The
> > .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though
> > there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it.
> > AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that
> > Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just
> > because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber,
> > does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made
> > past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a
> > pistol round. Ha Ha.
> >>
> >> Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt
> > 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles
> > also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter.
> > Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different
> > round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> >>
> >> It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand
> > to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1
> > Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO
> > rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It
> > was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the
> > USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton
> > pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And
> > 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you
> > choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in
> > 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a
> > newer .308 isn;t both faster and more
> > accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png
> > Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> >>
> >> But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06
> > round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more
> > gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple
> > science. I would think even you could understand that. But
> > apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of
> > your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people
> > said?
> >>
> >> For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed,
> > weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered
> > the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or
> > lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of
> > combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help
> > and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to
> > get it right for accuracy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with
> > hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his
> > pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are
> > killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but
> > because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged
> > to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened
> > with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed
> > to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is
> > to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> >>>
> >>
> >> We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list
> > of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than
> > rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives
> > fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out
> > by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few
> > with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no
> > one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their
> > belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle
> > instead.
> >>
> >> Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the
> > killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is
> > that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and
> > liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along
> > with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door
> > into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but
> > the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
> >>
> >> As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police
> > force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids?
> > Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas
> > governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and
> > indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was
> > the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of
> > sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of
> > the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50
> > miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work
> > than you doing it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick
> > Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should
> > have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between
> > two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with
> > TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the
> > perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the
> > strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
> >> Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K
> > population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad,
> > comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at
> > all.
> >> Top ten were:
> >> St. Louis, MO
> >> Baltimore, MD
> >> Birmingham, AL
> >> Detroit, MI
> >> Dayton, OH
> >> Baton Rouge, LA
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> Kansas City, MO
> >> Memphis, TN
> >> Cleveland, OH
> >> Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat
> > governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican
> > governors.
> >>
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
> >> Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly
> > as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no
> > one ever mentions them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on
> > target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer
> > with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum
> > which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US
> > including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The
> > Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at
> > 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would
> > overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails
> > that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of
> > your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
> >>>
> >>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being
> > directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like
> > Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
> >>
> >> Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is
> > pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the
> > country. All the way over to the French side from the
> > Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And
> > even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is
> > mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there.
> > Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really
> > isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want
> > either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a
> > few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable
> > rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains.
> > You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy
> > skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long
> > ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and
> > government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
> > why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?
> >
> >
> >>"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> >
> > Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> >
> > https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> >
> > Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just inches
> > ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> > https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> >
> > Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting, disruptive
> > and goes on for a very long time.
> >
> > possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> > https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> >
> > 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> >
> > Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> > https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> >
> > https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> >
> > examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
> any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
>
> Let's outlaw gasoline. Our president is on that already.

On 6/3/2022 9:40 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 7:59 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> <Much Snipped >
>>>>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>>>>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>>>>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are
>>>>> gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there
>>>>> isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I
>>>>> shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that
>>>>> fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going
>>>>> to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for
>>>>> the entre war in Europe?
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different
>>>>> round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a
>>>>> newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png
>>>>> Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>>>>>
>>>>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with
>>>>> hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting
>>>>> his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people
>>>>> are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles,
>>>>> but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely
>>>>> staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being
>>>>> threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the
>>>>> police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC
>>>>> training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony)
>>>> story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde.
>>>> There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront
>>>> shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law
>>>> breaker.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
>>>>
>>>> Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting
>>>> way.
>>>> "Police aren’t required to protect you.
>>>> When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police
>>>> rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
>>>> "There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To
>>>> Protect and to Serve” suggests — and departments train and
>>>> prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to
>>>> hold officers accountable if they don’t."
>>>> "The so-called “public duty doctrine” doesn’t apply to mass
>>>> shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of
>>>> possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that
>>>> “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,”
>>>> and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more
>>>> legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in
>>>> most circumstances."
>>>> “What duty do police have to protect individual members of the
>>>> public? The short answer is not much,”
>>>>
>>> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
>>> to protect individuals.
>>>
>>>  From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
>>> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
>>> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
>>> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
>>>
>>> Would you have it different?
>>>
>>> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
>>> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
>>> So to protect you....
>>> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
>>> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
>>> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
>>> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
>>> impounding your car.
>>> --
>>
>> Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils,
>> or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a
>> murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them
>> hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with
>> one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following
>> is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the
>> poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of
>> the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.
>>
>> Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye
>> with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but
>> he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with
>> an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear
>> to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
>>
>> Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a
>> heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is
>> the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not
>> through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as
>> the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When
>> they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are
>> talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might
>> remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being
>> it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and
>> reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so
>> much in wound ballistics.
>>
>> Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay
>> off so much in wound ballistics."
>>
>> Couple that with the fact that many of these mass shooters use
>> hollow-points - a bullet designed to fragment upon impact such that it
>> creates even more damage to the tissue. Some of the parents of the
>> Uvalde murders were asked to submit DNA samples to help identify the
>> victims. Take a wild guess why this is, john - let me help you out
>> since we know you're going full NRA here and supporting the idea that
>> dozens of dead children are a price worth paying for emasculated
>> MAGAtards to keep their big boy toys - It's because that little tiny
>> bullet did so much damage to those little 8-year-old skulls that the
>> children were unidentifiable.
>>
>> So gee, let's just ignore the fact that there is a completely legal
>> product on the market which was designed for the explicit purpose of
>> inflicting maximum damage to human beings, and say that cars (heavily
>> regulated, taxed, and restricted) are the real problem since more
>> people are killed by them.
>>
>> A car - when used for its designed purpose - doesn't kill anyone. An
>> AR-15 - when used for its designed purpose - results in multiple
>> deaths. Maybe it will take one of those little tiny bullets
>> pulverizing that thick fucking skull of yours to convince you of the
>> difference.
>>
>
> I don't know where you're going with ballistic comparisons (I'd rather
> not catch a .556FMJ OR a .308)but the usual defensive pistol rounds are
> highly frangible and achieve the same thing in a different way.
>
> https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/geltest/420/8df8dfae38655cc3dbcea76eb2aadb72.jpg
>
>
> https://tinyurl.com/jp2e98fw
>
> As previously discussed nearly to death here, rifles are a very small
> subset, fatal or not, criminal or defensive.
>
> meanwhile:
> https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/05/24/florida-grandmother-shoots-kills-home-intruder/
>
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/i-hit-him-3-times-74-year-old-ohio-man-says-about-shooting-alleged-teen-home-intruder
>
>
> https://foac-pac.org/Louisiana-Self-Defense:-Teen-Carjacker-Hospitalized-After-Victim-Shoots-Back/Defense-Story/3204
>
>
> https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/ccw-holder-fires-gun-attempted-carjacker-roseland/
>
>
> etc etc

On 6/3/2022 11:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 9:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/3/2022 1:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B.
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in
>>>>> itself,...
>>>>
>>>> I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns
>>>> _allowed_ many
>>>> people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
>>>>
>>>>> after all
>>>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the
>>>>> U.S. that have
>>>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't
>>>>> have up to the
>>>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in
>>>>> 2019, that is,
>>>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns
>>>>> used this to
>>>>> murder someone.
>>>>
>>>> Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey,
>>>> 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
>>>> Tell that to the families and friends of the victims.
>>>> Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>> There were 10.258 gun murders
>>>
>>> There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
>>> .In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides
>>> by 306.7%.
>>> Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
>>> Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)
>>
>> Again, state your point clearly. Is it that nobody should be
>> bothered by gun murders? Really?
>>
>
> Oh, maybe we ought to have laws against felon in possession, against
> shooting at police, against use of  a firearm in commission of a felony,
> against possessing a stolen firearm.

Sure, we should do that. But then how does it make sense to
over-saturate the market with guns optimized for killing people?

A major part of the problem is the GOP's idea (or really, the NRA's idea
promoted through the GOP) that the solution to gun violence is always
"More guns!" "Only a good guy with a gun..." and "Let's arm the
teachers!" and "Lower the age limits!" and "The Second Amendment is
inviolable!" all point in that direction.

BTW, I know your idee fixe is that no laws do any good, but that's not
gaining much traction with the rational set.

(And oddly, you've never agreed to repeal the laws against burglarizing
bike shops, despite the times those laws haven't worked.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/3/2022 11:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 9:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/3/2022 9:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or
>>>>>> knives."
>>>>> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
>>>>> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
>>>>> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
>>>>> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>>>>>
>>>>> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
>>>>> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
>>>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should
>>>> state it more clearly, more blatantly.
>>>> Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass
>>>> shootings every year aren't so bad!
>>>> Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all
>>>> terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
>>>> going back a couple decades!"
>>>>
>>>> That should bring great consolation to the families and
>>>> friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.
>>
>> So people should not be bothered if their loved ones are
>> killed by guns? The parents in Uvalde should not worry that
>> the bodies of their children were literally unrecognizable?
>> We should do nothing to stop gun murders?
>>
>
> There are not degrees of 'dead'.

Please answer my questions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/3/2022 10:28 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> Frank simply cannot stop himself from lying about anything and everything. There have been 30 mass shootings in the USA since 1949.

Wrong yet again, Tom. Why are you never embarrassed?

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3510083-233-mass-shootings-have-happened-so-far-in-2022-nonprofit/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting and please
note that list goes on for 10 pages.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/3/2022 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>
>
> Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
> any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
>
> Let's outlaw gasoline.

Why are gun fetishists unable to process the "benefits vs. detriments" idea?

(OK, the answer is obvious. Because acknowledging it would point out the
absurdity of their position.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 12:08:10 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 5:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
> >>>
> >>> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
> >> It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
> >> hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
> >> care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
> >>
> >> Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
> >> <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>
> >
> > Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.
> Tom Kunich: "... Germany [is] directly adjacent to Russia ..."
>
> And Tom still furiously tries to pretend that's true. :-)
>
But Franki-boy, as recently as 1990 that was perfectly true. In fact, Russia was inside Germany. Or what do you think the so-called Democratic German Republic (DDR) was?
Did you know that Stalin, and a whole bunch of other "statesmen", agreed that Poland wasn't really a nation but an anomaly and that its natural place was inside Russian borders?
>
For a self-proclaimed "university professor", you're amazingly poorly educated. And you're oddly careless for an engineer who should at least try to be right occasionally.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>
Happy to help out.
Andre Jute
I only wish I could charge to educate monkeys. There's a fortune to be made on RBT.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 6/3/2022 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>
>> Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
>> any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
>> Let's outlaw gasoline.
>
> Why are gun fetishists unable to process the "benefits vs. detriments" idea?
>
> (OK, the answer is obvious. Because acknowledging it would point out
> the absurdity of their position.)

Why are gun banners unable to process the benefits of private ownership
of weapons? They seem to have no trouble seeing the benefits of the
"right people" keeping and using them.

Why, for that matter, are many of those same people so eager to flood
the world black market with small arms bought with $40B "for the
Ukraine"?

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 1:57:35 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
> > On 6/3/2022 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>
> >> Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
> >> any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
> >> Let's outlaw gasoline.
> >
> > Why are gun fetishists unable to process the "benefits vs. detriments" idea?
> >
> > (OK, the answer is obvious. Because acknowledging it would point out
> > the absurdity of their position.)
> Why are gun banners unable to process the benefits of private ownership
> of weapons? They seem to have no trouble seeing the benefits of the
> "right people" keeping and using them.
>
> Why, for that matter, are many of those same people so eager to flood
> the world black market with small arms bought with $40B "for the
> Ukraine"?

Radey, What we're seeing is people like Frank trying to override the 2nd Amendment. And at the same time he is hoping to flood Europe with cheap weapons of every sort. He is so entirely ignorant of the world that it is all a fairy tale to him. Just remember that he want someone else to give him money, He want Elon Musk close the doors of Tesla and give him money. Oh, of course since Jeff Bezos is leftist he doesn't want to complain about how he pays little to no taxes on his billions. There is something seriously wrong with Frank and it can't be explained by any manner other than the fact that he BELIEVES that he is an engineer because he taught engineering.

Well, I was an engineer and had a lot of engineers working for me and I can tell you that the most stupid one of them was Einstein next to Frank. As the saying goes - Those who can, do, and those who can't, teach.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:01:53 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:56:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> > >>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> > >>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> > >>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> > >>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> > >>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> > >>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> > >>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> > >>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> > >>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> > >>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> > >>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> > >>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> > >>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> > >>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> > >>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> > >>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> > >>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> > >>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> > >>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> > >>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> > >>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> > >>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> > >>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> > >>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> > >>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> > >>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> > >>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> > >>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> > >>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> > >>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> > >>>>>>>>> bike?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> > >>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> > >>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> > >>>>>>>> now.
> > >>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> > >>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> > >>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> > >>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> > >>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> > >>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> > >>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> > >>>>>>> message.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> > >>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> > >>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> > >>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> > >>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> > >>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> > >>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> > >>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> > >>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> > >>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> > >>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> > >>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> > >>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> > >>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> > >>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> > >>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> > >>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> > >>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> > >>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> > >>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> > >>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> > >>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> > >>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> > >>>> as usual.
> > >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> > >>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> > >>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> > >>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> > >>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> > >>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> > >>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> > >>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> > >>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> > >>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> > >>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> > >>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> > >>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> > >>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> > >>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> > >>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> > >>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> > >>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> > >>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> > >>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> > >>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> > >>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > >>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> > >>> out a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> > >>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> > >> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> > >
> > > Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced. It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
> > > "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D, formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities during World War II."
> > >
> > > You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that is the way it works. But not always.
> > >
> > > My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually, almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with only one "L".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
> > >>
> > >
> > > You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3 are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand. M1 was just the model number.. Tommy, you have to, must, say the Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50 caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use your mind to think?
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
> > > The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it. AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber, does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a pistol round. Ha Ha.
> > >
> > > Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter. Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> > >
> > > It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1 Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> > >
> > > But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06 round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple science. I would think even you could understand that. But apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people said?
> > >
> > > For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed, weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to get it right for accuracy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> > >>
> > >
> > > We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle instead.
> > >
> > > Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
> > >
> > > As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids? Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50 miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work than you doing it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
> > >>
> > >
> > > https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
> > > Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad, comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at all.
> > > Top ten were:
> > > St. Louis, MO
> > > Baltimore, MD
> > > Birmingham, AL
> > > Detroit, MI
> > > Dayton, OH
> > > Baton Rouge, LA
> > > New Orleans, LA
> > > Kansas City, MO
> > > Memphis, TN
> > > Cleveland, OH
> > > Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican governors.
> > >
> > > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago..html
> > > Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no one ever mentions them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
> > >>
> > >> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
> > >
> > > Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the country. All the way over to the French side from the Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there. Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains. You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
> > why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?
> >
> >
> > >"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> > Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> >
> > https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> >
> > Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> > inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> > https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> >
> > Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> > disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
> >
> > possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> > https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> >
> > 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> >
> > Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> > https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> >
> > https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> >
> > examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> As I said, those that know the least about guns are those that have the most and loudest opinions. Russell is actually short a few brain cells from total emptiness. He makes a list that doesn't include Chicago or Oakland and then says that all of the cities on his list have Republican governors. I hate to have to explain to Mr. Stupid that it is city mayors and cops that control the danger or not of a city. But as well and not being able to do simple arithmetic he also hasn't the faintest idea of how a government works. This to him seems the best reason possible to opine on it.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:14:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>> people?"
>>
>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
>
>You can't explain it because it isn't true, and/or certainly isn't
>relevant.
>
>A country with a higher percentage of mentally ill people would not lead
>the developed world in gun murders per capita if that country did not
>allow guns designed for murder to be obscenely available.

I don't know, perhaps for the same reason that the "anti-gunners" tell
lies....
from the FBI reports for 2019
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Total Murders - 13,927
With firearms - 10,258
Pistol - 6,368
rifle - 364

Percent with pistol - 62%
Percent with rifle - 3.5 %

Percent of total murders with rifle - 2.6%
Percent with knife - 10.5%
Percent with clubs etc. - 2.7%
Percent with hands and feet - 4,3%

Now then, both Andrew and I have, several times in the past, posted
this data so quite obviously you are aware of it and yet you keep
insisting, that "yesirrree Bob, It's them there A sult rifles"

So tell us Frank are you so demented that you can't read publicly
reported data?

Or are you deliberately lying in an effort to bolster your
arguments...
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:18:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/3/2022 1:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself,...
>>>
>>> I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns _allowed_ many
>>> people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
>>>
>>>> after all
>>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't have up to the
>>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
>>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
>>>> murder someone.
>>>
>>> Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey, 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
>>> Tell that to the families and friends of the victims. Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> There were 10.258 gun murders
>>
>> There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
>> .In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides by 306.7%.
>> Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
>> Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)
>
>Again, state your point clearly. Is it that nobody should be bothered by
>gun murders? Really?

Why goodness Frank, I am amazed, here I had assumed that "my readers"
were of normal intelligence, and could understand what they read.

But for those with limited comprehension, I was merely posting the
death rate of various activities seemingly common in the U.S.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:10:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 8:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 5:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:34:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>>
>>>> If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Gun fetishists can't admit that.
>>>
>>> But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
>>> from sale.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
>>> "The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
>>> is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
>>> firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."
>>>
>>> Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.
>>>
>>
>> Calling a small caliber lightweight semi an 'assault rifle' doesn't make
>> it so.
>>
>> 'Assault rifles' began in 1944/45:
>>
>> https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/04/sturmgewehr-the-stg44-was-the-first-assault-rifle/
>>
>>
>> But were effectively banned in USA since 1934:
>> https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act
>>
>> moreso in 1968.
>
>In other words, you prefer to restrict the definition so it purposely
>excludes gun fetishists favorite toy, the one whose only practical use
>is for mass shootings.

Yes Sir! AND them there mass shooting devices were used in 2.6% of the
murders while knives were used in 10.5%, clubs in 2.8% and hands and
feet in 4.3%
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Tell us Frank, is this a matter of you not knowing what you are
talking about or are you deliberately lying?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/3/2022 6:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:14:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
>>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
>>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>>> people?"
>>>
>>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
>>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
>>
>> You can't explain it because it isn't true, and/or certainly isn't
>> relevant.
>>
>> A country with a higher percentage of mentally ill people would not lead
>> the developed world in gun murders per capita if that country did not
>> allow guns designed for murder to be obscenely available.
>
> I don't know, perhaps for the same reason that the "anti-gunners" tell
> lies....
> from the FBI reports for 2019
> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
>
> Total Murders - 13,927
> With firearms - 10,258
> Pistol - 6,368
> rifle - 364
>
> Percent with pistol - 62%
> Percent with rifle - 3.5 %
>
> Percent of total murders with rifle - 2.6%
> Percent with knife - 10.5%
> Percent with clubs etc. - 2.7%
> Percent with hands and feet - 4,3%
>
> Now then, both Andrew and I have, several times in the past, posted
> this data so quite obviously you are aware of it and yet you keep
> insisting, that "yesirrree Bob, It's them there A sult rifles"
>
> So tell us Frank are you so demented that you can't read publicly
> reported data?
>
> Or are you deliberately lying in an effort to bolster your
> arguments...
>

Small caliber weapons are obviously owned by the same people
who drive big scary looking pickup trucks. And wear bicycle
helmets.

They're either morally bankrupt (no fashion sense to boot)
or just trying to pull Mr Krygowski's chain. Hard to tell.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 12:38:04 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 6:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:14:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/2/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
> >>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
> >>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
> >>> people?"
> >>>
> >>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
> >>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
> >>
> >> You can't explain it because it isn't true, and/or certainly isn't
> >> relevant.
> >>
> >> A country with a higher percentage of mentally ill people would not lead
> >> the developed world in gun murders per capita if that country did not
> >> allow guns designed for murder to be obscenely available.
> >
> > I don't know, perhaps for the same reason that the "anti-gunners" tell
> > lies....
> > from the FBI reports for 2019
> > https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
> >
> > Total Murders - 13,927
> > With firearms - 10,258
> > Pistol - 6,368
> > rifle - 364
> >
> > Percent with pistol - 62%
> > Percent with rifle - 3.5 %
> >
> > Percent of total murders with rifle - 2.6%
> > Percent with knife - 10.5%
> > Percent with clubs etc. - 2.7%
> > Percent with hands and feet - 4,3%
> >
> > Now then, both Andrew and I have, several times in the past, posted
> > this data so quite obviously you are aware of it and yet you keep
> > insisting, that "yesirrree Bob, It's them there A sult rifles"
> >
> > So tell us Frank are you so demented that you can't read publicly
> > reported data?
> >
> > Or are you deliberately lying in an effort to bolster your
> > arguments...
> >
> Small caliber weapons are obviously owned by the same people
> who drive big scary looking pickup trucks. And wear bicycle
> helmets.
>
> They're either morally bankrupt (no fashion sense to boot)
> or just trying to pull Mr Krygowski's chain. Hard to tell.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
REAL MOUNTAIN MEN have more curtains in our trucks than our houses, and both families sit on the same side of the aisle in church at weddings. We don't hold meetings about the Second Amendment, we just feed sissyboys like Krygowski who want to take our guns to our free-range hogs. The Feds will never find even his gold teeth.

F150 FOREVER!

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:28:11 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 6:24:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> > >> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> > >>
> > >> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> > >>
> > >> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> > >> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> > >> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> > >>
> > >> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> > >> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
> > >>
> > >> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> > >> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> > >>
> > >> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> > >>
> > >> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> > >> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> > >>
> > >> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> > >>
> > >> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> > >
> > > Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should state it more clearly, more blatantly.
> > > Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass shootings every year aren't so bad!
> > > Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
> > > going back a couple decades!"
> > >
> > > That should bring great consolation to the families and friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
> > >
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > >
> > >
> > Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.
> Frank simply cannot stop himself from lying about anything and everything.. There have been 30 mass shootings in the USA since 1949. But he tells us that the 45,000 gun deaths under his lord and master Biden which is a 14% increase from the year before and which are 65% suicides and the remainder almost entirely gang related using illegal weapons can ALL be stopped by making magazines hold fewer rounds. Seems to me that Frank can end his worries simply by committing suicide himself. We're waiting Frank...........

Another Tommy post brimming with lies. Typical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
"One definition is an act of public firearm violence—excluding gang killings, domestic violence, or terrorist acts sponsored by an organization—in which a shooter kills at least four victims. Using this definition, one study found that nearly one-third of the world's public mass shootings between 1966 and 2012 (90 of 292 incidents) occurred in the United States. Using a similar definition, The Washington Post records 163 mass shootings in the United States between 1967 and June 2019."

Please note Tommy, it says "excluding gang killings".

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
"In 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC."

Tommy, it says 2020. 2020. 2020. 2020. When the 45,000 gun deaths you say happened. Do you know who was President in 2020? I doubt you do. How do you even manage to function with no brain ability at all?

https://hub.jhu.edu/2022/05/02/highest-number-of-gun-related-deaths-in-2020-report/
This article has several good quotes:
"The report also put firearm fatalities in context with other injury fatalities, noting that injuries make up a substantial burden of premature death in the U.S. After overdose and poisoning deaths (97,034), firearm deaths—homicides and suicides (45,222)—were the second-leading cause of injury deaths in 2020, followed by falls (43,292) and motor vehicle traffic (40,698)."
John, don't you think we should attack the biggest tiger, or plug the biggest hole, or whatever the saying is. Guns killed 5,000 more than cars. Why are you worrying so much about car accidents when guns kill 5,000 more than cars?

"The year 2020 also saw a record number of gun sales. The report cites research that found that nearly twice as many of these new guns showed up at crime scenes in 2020 than in 2019."
Kind of puts a lie to Tommy's lie of "using illegal weapons". Seems like the murderers bought their guns legally.

"The report found wide variations among states. States with the highest gun death rates in 2020 were rural states in the South or West. Mississippi had the highest rate of gun deaths in 2020: 28.63 per 100,000 deaths, followed by Louisiana at 26.26 per 100,000, and Wyoming at 25.9 per 100,000. Conversely, Hawaii had the lowest gun death rate: 3.37 per 100,000, followed by Massachusetts at 3.74 per 100,000 deaths, and New Jersey at 5.03 per 100,000."
So ALL of the top murder, gun death, states voted for Trump. And all the lowest gun death states voted for Biden. Makes you wonder.

"States that had the highest gun death rates in 2020 had stand-your-ground legislation, or laws that authorize individuals to use lethal force even in situations they might have otherwise been able to walk away from, and three of the five had permitless carry laws, which allow individuals to carry a concealed gun in public without a permit."
So the states that encourage guns have the most killings. Not too surprising.

"The researchers note that the states with the lowest gun death rates have stronger gun laws. Each of the five states with the lowest gun death rate had both the following gun laws in place in 2020: a firearm purchaser licensing law or a waiting period and an Extreme Risk Protection Order law."
Most restrictive states had the lowest gun deaths. Not too surprising.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:33:36 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 6:40:15 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/3/2022 7:59 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> <Much Snipped >
> > >>>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> > >>>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> > >>>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
> > >>> Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
> > >>> "Police aren’t required to protect you.
> > >>> When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
> > >>> "There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve†suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
> > >>> "The so-called “public duty doctrine†doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,†and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
> > >>> “What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,â€
> > >>>
> > >> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
> > >> to protect individuals.
> > >>
> > >> From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
> > >> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
> > >> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
> > >> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
> > >>
> > >> Would you have it different?
> > >>
> > >> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
> > >> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
> > >> So to protect you....
> > >> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
> > >> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
> > >> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
> > >> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
> > >> impounding your car.
> > >> --
> > >
> > > Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils, or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.
> > >
> > > Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense.. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
> > >
> > > Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.
> > >
> > > Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics."
> > >
> > > Couple that with the fact that many of these mass shooters use hollow-points - a bullet designed to fragment upon impact such that it creates even more damage to the tissue. Some of the parents of the Uvalde murders were asked to submit DNA samples to help identify the victims. Take a wild guess why this is, john - let me help you out since we know you're going full NRA here and supporting the idea that dozens of dead children are a price worth paying for emasculated MAGAtards to keep their big boy toys - It's because that little tiny bullet did so much damage to those little 8-year-old skulls that the children were unidentifiable.
> > >
> > > So gee, let's just ignore the fact that there is a completely legal product on the market which was designed for the explicit purpose of inflicting maximum damage to human beings, and say that cars (heavily regulated, taxed, and restricted) are the real problem since more people are killed by them.
> > >
> > > A car - when used for its designed purpose - doesn't kill anyone. An AR-15 - when used for its designed purpose - results in multiple deaths. Maybe it will take one of those little tiny bullets pulverizing that thick fucking skull of yours to convince you of the difference.
> > >
> > I don't know where you're going with ballistic comparisons
> > (I'd rather not catch a .556FMJ OR a .308)but the usual
> > defensive pistol rounds are highly frangible and achieve the
> > same thing in a different way.
> >
> > https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/geltest/420/8df8dfae38655cc3dbcea76eb2aadb72.jpg
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/jp2e98fw
> >
> > As previously discussed nearly to death here, rifles are a
> > very small subset, fatal or not, criminal or defensive.
> >
> > meanwhile:
> > https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/05/24/florida-grandmother-shoots-kills-home-intruder/
> >
> > https://www.foxnews.com/us/i-hit-him-3-times-74-year-old-ohio-man-says-about-shooting-alleged-teen-home-intruder
> >
> > https://foac-pac.org/Louisiana-Self-Defense:-Teen-Carjacker-Hospitalized-After-Victim-Shoots-Back/Defense-Story/3204
> >
> > https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/ccw-holder-fires-gun-attempted-carjacker-roseland/
> >
> > etc etc
> And another case of someone entirely ignorant of guns tells us that hollowpoints are designed to fragment. The ignorance of people like Flunky is just like that of Russell and Frank. Hollow points are designed to EXPAND their bullet size and not to fragment.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 12:10:28 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
> >
> > > On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >>>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> > >>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> > >>>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> > >>>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> > >>>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> > >>>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> > >>>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> > >>>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> > >>>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> > >>>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> > >>>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> > >>>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> > >>>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> > >>>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> > >>>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> > >>>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> > >>>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> > >>>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> > >>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> > >>>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> > >>>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> > >>>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> > >>>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> > >>>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> > >>>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> > >>>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> > >>>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> > >>>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> > >>>>>>>>>> bike?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> > >>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> > >>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> > >>>>>>>>> now.
> > >>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> > >>>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> > >>>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> > >>>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> > >>>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> > >>>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> > >>>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> > >>>>>>>> message.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> > >>>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> > >>>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> > >>>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> > >>>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> > >>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> > >>>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> > >>>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> > >>>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> > >>>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> > >>>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> > >>>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> > >>>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> > >>>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> > >>>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> > >>>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol..
> > >>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> > >>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> > >>>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> > >>>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> > >>>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> > >>>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> > >>>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> > >>>>> as usual.
> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> > >>>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> > >>>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> > >>>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> > >>>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> > >>>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> > >>>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> > >>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> > >>>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> > >>>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> > >>>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> > >>>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> > >>>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> > >>>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> > >>>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> > >>>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> > >>>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> > >>>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit..
> > >>>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> > >>>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> > >>>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> > >>>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > >>>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> > >>>> out a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> > >>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> > >>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are
> > > gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there
> > > isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> > >>
> > >> Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced.
> > > It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no
> > > production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
> > >> "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw
> > > active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope
> > > mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D,
> > > formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities
> > > during World War II."
> > >>
> > >> You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical
> > > order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that
> > > is the way it works. But not always.
> > >>
> > >> My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find
> > > my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually,
> > > almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with
> > > only one "L".
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I
> > > shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that
> > > fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to
> > > be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the
> > > entre war in Europe?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force
> > > rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off
> > > the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3
> > > are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is
> > > the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand.
> > > M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the
> > > Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking
> > > about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone
> > > automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50
> > > caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a
> > > Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to
> > > say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a
> > > very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use
> > > your mind to think?
> > >>
> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
> > >> The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please
> > > note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The
> > > .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though
> > > there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it.
> > > AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that
> > > Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just
> > > because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber,
> > > does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made
> > > past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a
> > > pistol round. Ha Ha.
> > >>
> > >> Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt
> > > 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles
> > > also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter.
> > > Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different
> > > round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> > >>
> > >> It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand
> > > to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1
> > > Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO
> > > rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It
> > > was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the
> > > USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton
> > > pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And
> > > 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you
> > > choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in
> > > 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a
> > > newer .308 isn;t both faster and more
> > > accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png
> > > Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> > >>
> > >> But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06
> > > round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more
> > > gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple
> > > science. I would think even you could understand that. But
> > > apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of
> > > your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people
> > > said?
> > >>
> > >> For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed,
> > > weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered
> > > the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or
> > > lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of
> > > combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help
> > > and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to
> > > get it right for accuracy.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with
> > > hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his
> > > pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are
> > > killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but
> > > because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged
> > > to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened
> > > with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed
> > > to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is
> > > to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list
> > > of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than
> > > rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives
> > > fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out
> > > by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few
> > > with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no
> > > one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their
> > > belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle
> > > instead.
> > >>
> > >> Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the
> > > killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is
> > > that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and
> > > liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along
> > > with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door
> > > into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but
> > > the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
> > >>
> > >> As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police
> > > force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids?
> > > Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas
> > > governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and
> > > indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was
> > > the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of
> > > sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of
> > > the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50
> > > miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work
> > > than you doing it.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick
> > > Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should
> > > have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between
> > > two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with
> > > TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the
> > > perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the
> > > strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
> > >> Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K
> > > population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad,
> > > comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at
> > > all.
> > >> Top ten were:
> > >> St. Louis, MO
> > >> Baltimore, MD
> > >> Birmingham, AL
> > >> Detroit, MI
> > >> Dayton, OH
> > >> Baton Rouge, LA
> > >> New Orleans, LA
> > >> Kansas City, MO
> > >> Memphis, TN
> > >> Cleveland, OH
> > >> Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat
> > > governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican
> > > governors.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
> > >> Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly
> > > as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no
> > > one ever mentions them.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on
> > > target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer
> > > with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum
> > > which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US
> > > including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The
> > > Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at
> > > 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would
> > > overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails
> > > that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of
> > > your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being
> > > directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like
> > > Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
> > >>
> > >> Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is
> > > pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the
> > > country. All the way over to the French side from the
> > > Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And
> > > even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is
> > > mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there.
> > > Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really
> > > isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want
> > > either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a
> > > few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable
> > > rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains.
> > > You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy
> > > skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long
> > > ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and
> > > government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
> > > why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?
> > >
> > >
> > >>"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> > >
> > > Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> > >
> > > https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> > >
> > > Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just inches
> > > ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> > > https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> > >
> > > Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting, disruptive
> > > and goes on for a very long time.
> > >
> > > possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> > > https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> > >
> > > 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> > >
> > > Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> > > https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> > >
> > > https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> > >
> > > examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> > Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
> > any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
> >
> > Let's outlaw gasoline. Our president is on that already.
> In northern California the price of gas is nearly $10/gal so Biden is being successful with stressing conservatives.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 05:59:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> <Much Snipped >
>> >> > What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>> >> > double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>> >> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>> >>
>> >> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>> >>
>> >> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>> >>
>> >> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>> >>
>> >> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
>> >
>> >https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
>> >Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
>> >"Police aren’t required to protect you.
>> >When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
>> >"There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve” suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
>> >"The so-called “public duty doctrine” doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,” and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
>> >“What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,”
>> >
>> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
>> to protect individuals.
>>
>> From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
>> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
>> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
>> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
>>
>> Would you have it different?
>>
>> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
>> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
>> So to protect you....
>> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
>> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
>> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
>> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
>> impounding your car.
>> --
>
>Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils, or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.
>
>Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
>
>Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.
>
>Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics."
>
Yup, read it. But as far as the little bullet theory goes it is
incorrect. Go get a block of Ballistic gel, or buy a "roast" from the
butcher. then shoot it with the littlest bullet you can find... say a
..22 Rim Fire Short. Look at the wound channel. You could do as much
damage poking with a fork.

Which is not to say that high velocity bullets don't do a lot of
damage, they do, largely due to the higher velocity of the bullet.
And yes, early M-16's with the 1::12 inch twist barrels with the "boat
tail" bullets used in early versions of the cartridge did exhibit some
tumbling in the wound..

I assume that whoever was making the presentation understood that he
was talking to a bunch of Dummies, at least when it came to firearms,
and used a simplistic explanation so as not to confuse anyone.

Actually bullet tumbling in the wound is largely a matter of angle of
attach, rotational velocity and bullet design, i.e., long bullets tend
to tumble more then short bullets.Boat tail bullets fired from a 1::12
inch bore tended to tumble more then the same bullet fired from the
newer 1::7 inch barrels.

But having said all that, in reading reference to the 5.56×45mm NATO
"Military" loadings It does appear that bullet tumbling and
fragmentation in the wound channel may well be an intended design
feature in current ammunition.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 5:07:37 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 12:38:04 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/3/2022 6:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:14:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 6/2/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
> > >>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
> > >>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
> > >>> people?"
> > >>>
> > >>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
> > >>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
> > >>
> > >> You can't explain it because it isn't true, and/or certainly isn't
> > >> relevant.
> > >>
> > >> A country with a higher percentage of mentally ill people would not lead
> > >> the developed world in gun murders per capita if that country did not
> > >> allow guns designed for murder to be obscenely available.
> > >
> > > I don't know, perhaps for the same reason that the "anti-gunners" tell
> > > lies....
> > > from the FBI reports for 2019
> > > https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
> > >
> > > Total Murders - 13,927
> > > With firearms - 10,258
> > > Pistol - 6,368
> > > rifle - 364
> > >
> > > Percent with pistol - 62%
> > > Percent with rifle - 3.5 %
> > >
> > > Percent of total murders with rifle - 2.6%
> > > Percent with knife - 10.5%
> > > Percent with clubs etc. - 2.7%
> > > Percent with hands and feet - 4,3%
> > >
> > > Now then, both Andrew and I have, several times in the past, posted
> > > this data so quite obviously you are aware of it and yet you keep
> > > insisting, that "yesirrree Bob, It's them there A sult rifles"
> > >
> > > So tell us Frank are you so demented that you can't read publicly
> > > reported data?
> > >
> > > Or are you deliberately lying in an effort to bolster your
> > > arguments...
> > >
> > Small caliber weapons are obviously owned by the same people
> > who drive big scary looking pickup trucks. And wear bicycle
> > helmets.
> >
> > They're either morally bankrupt (no fashion sense to boot)
> > or just trying to pull Mr Krygowski's chain. Hard to tell.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> REAL MOUNTAIN MEN have more curtains in our trucks than our houses, and both families sit on the same side of the aisle in church at weddings. We don't hold meetings about the Second Amendment, we just feed sissyboys like Krygowski who want to take our guns to our free-range hogs. The Feds will never find even his gold teeth.
>
> F150 FOREVER!
The only idiot worse than that faker Kragowski is Russell. There isn't anything he won't lie about. He will go through the preposterous Googling of gun death numbers when he doesn't understand a think about it. Do you know what "gun deaths per 100,000 is worth? Absolutely nothing. But Rusty - the accountant that doesn't have even a vague understanding of numbers, thinks he's on to something. All of the high death cities in the US have Democrats running them. That's your answer. They are run by Kragowski think alikes.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 3:57:35 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
> > On 6/3/2022 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>
> >> Happy Land Social Club Fire (arson) killed 87. I think that's more than
> >> any random apeshit mass shooting in the US to date.
> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/happy-land-fire.html
> >> Let's outlaw gasoline.
> >
> > Why are gun fetishists unable to process the "benefits vs. detriments" idea?
> >
> > (OK, the answer is obvious. Because acknowledging it would point out
> > the absurdity of their position.)
> Why are gun banners unable to process the benefits of private ownership
> of weapons? They seem to have no trouble seeing the benefits of the
> "right people" keeping and using them.

Because the detriments of private ownership of weapons is greater than the societal benefit. Private ownership of weapons puts a large burden on all of society. Kind of like a coal mine or town's sewage system. If they simply remove the waste by putting it into the river and letting the river carry it downstream, then they do not have to pay for the cost of treating the waste. Benefit. Of course, there is a large detriment for all of the people downstream along the river. Should it be legal for you to get benefit and others get harm? Kind of like the bank robber steals the money from the bank and gets the benefit of the stolen money. But the bank and its customers are harmed. Should we make it legal to rob banks?

>
> Why, for that matter, are many of those same people so eager to flood
> the world black market with small arms bought with $40B "for the
> Ukraine"?

That is a weird turn. Do you even understand the $40 billion amount is the cost, purchase price, of the goods the USA is sending to Ukraine. The USA is not giving $40 billion cash to Ukraine. And not all of the goods are small arms. I do not even know if the USA has sent any rifles or pistols to Ukraine. I presume Ukraine is still using Soviet era personal arms. And have ammunition for it. So NATO arms and ammunition would bot be compatible. The arms going to Ukraine are artillery and shells and missiles. No one considers these small arms. And in the $40 billion, there are other aid. Such as food and medicine and vehicles and drones.