On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 6:17:44 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 10:18:58 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >> Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>
> >>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
> >>> with a gun"
> >>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> >>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
> >>> hospitals to take
> >>> out a bad guy with a gun"
> >>>
> >>> What's the learning?
> >>
> >> damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
> >>
> >> And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
> >> dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
> >> of ever paying them lavish retirements.
> >
> >Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
> >
> >https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
> The problem with all this hoop-a-la about the Texas shooting is that
> the claims about "You din do that" are all made by people who weren't
> there, who are sitting behind a desk with no chances of being shot and
> killed.
>
> Now, I have been in situations where there was, or I thought that
> there was a very good chance of me getting killed and I can assure you
> that the primary thought was, "how can I get out of this without
> dying".
>
> And yes I know, you are going to say "Yare but"... cops are supposed
> to be brave. But in reality Cops are just people. If you know that
> there is an armed shooter in that room and if you push the door open
> there is a very good possibility that he will shoot you. Will you be
> first to open the door?
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

John, there are people who pick up and work with smelly, stinky trash every day. Its their job. I am sure they do not like the smell any more than other people. They do not say "Yeah!!!!!! Stinky trash!!!!!! I love that smell!!!!!!" No. They don't like the smell of stinky trash either. But its their job to work around smelly trash. And they do their job. The cops, seemingly, did not do their job very well. Now, I understand their job involves being shot at maybe killed. Yes. But they knew that when they applied for and accepted the job. Kind of like a person who volunteers to join the Army. Volunteer, since there is no longer a draft in the USA. And this Army volunteer refuses to fight. ???? Now with the huge Army, a person can be assigned to a desk in an office in North Dakota. So no fighting. But with the front line cops, its their job to deal with guns and killers. I've heard the stories of the military where if a soldier on the front line doesn't shoot the enemy and runs away he is rounded up and court martialed and shot. True or not, I don't know.

And John, no I do not want to face an armed shooter. And I am not going to open the door with a shooter on the other side. But I'm not a hero. I'm not a police. I'm not in the Army. So I have a very valid reason to say no no no no no no.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 7:50:51 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 5:41 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 10:45:17 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
> >>
> >> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Thanks Frank. I missed that easy one responding to our Tommy boy.
> Well if Russia invades and takes over Poland then Germany would be
> adjacent to Russia.

True. They could just take about 200 miles of Poland coast along the Baltic Sea. And then the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad would be adjacent to Germany. Or the part of Germany that used to be East Germany. They'd still have to travel a few more miles to get to the west side of Berlin. And even further to get to formerly West Germany.

I was in Germany once. Couple years after the merger of East and West. I do not know today how integrated the former countries are. Is it totally mixed and one country again? Or is there still a division in how people act and which politics they prefer and their economies?

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 15:58:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:28:59 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>> >>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>> >>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>> >>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
>> >>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>> >>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>> >>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>> >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>> >>>>>>> now.
>> >>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>> >>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>> >>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>> >>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>> >>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>> >>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>> >>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>> >>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>> >>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>> >>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>> >>>
>> >>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>> >>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>> >>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>> >>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>> >>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>> >>>
>> >>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>> >>>
>> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>> >> U.S.".
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> > John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
>> >
>> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also
>> with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>>
>> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for
>> years.
>>
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>
>Russell is so mentally deranged that he seems to have missed the posting showing that although Mexico has NO GUNS allowed, they have twice the murder rate with guns than the US. This is pretty steady throughout Central America. Brazil is so rife with murders that they simply lie about it.
>
>America doesn't have any higher rates of mental illness, it has much higher rates of diagnosis. But again the pure stupidity of Russell (the "accountant" that cannot accompish simple math) keeps him from actually thinking for one second about what he writes. Also in the US we invent entire catagory of mental illnesses that the rest of the world don't even recognize as an illness. https://borgenproject.org/mental-health-in-brazil/ Here, people like Frank, Scharf, Russell and Flunky would be easily classified as mentally ill simply by their postings on this group. JHohn who has admitted that the only reason that he is here is to argue is borderline. Anyone that would argue that the main weapon of the Air Force during Vietnam was an M1 carbine when it was an M2 carbine has either a very bad memory or has slipped into the realm of imagination.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> > On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >> >> >> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >> >> >> > >>>> M1 in .308.
> >> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>> Andrew Muzi
> >> >> >> > >>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> >> >> > >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >> >> >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >> >> >> > >> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >> >> >> > >> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
> >> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> >> > >> Andrew Muzi
> >> >> >> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> >> >> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >> >> >> > outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >> >> >> > https://thecmp.org/about/
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >> >> >> > now.
> >> >> >> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge.. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
> >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
> >> >> >See the Products section of this webpage.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> >> >> >This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
> >> >> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
> >> >> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> >> >> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
> >> >> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >> >>
> >> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
> >> >> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >> >
> >> >OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> >> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> >> >> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> >> >> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> >> >> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >> >
> >> >Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >> >
> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
> >> U.S.".
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world.. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
> Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
> was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
> old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
> one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
> (where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
> ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
> 200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
> Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?
>
> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
> people?"
> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone?

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 18:38:18 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 6:17:44 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 10:18:58 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> >> Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
>> >>> with a gun"
>> >>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
>> >>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
>> >>> hospitals to take
>> >>> out a bad guy with a gun"
>> >>>
>> >>> What's the learning?
>> >>
>> >> damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
>> >>
>> >> And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
>> >> dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
>> >> of ever paying them lavish retirements.
>> >
>> >Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
>> >
>> >https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
>> The problem with all this hoop-a-la about the Texas shooting is that
>> the claims about "You din do that" are all made by people who weren't
>> there, who are sitting behind a desk with no chances of being shot and
>> killed.
>>
>> Now, I have been in situations where there was, or I thought that
>> there was a very good chance of me getting killed and I can assure you
>> that the primary thought was, "how can I get out of this without
>> dying".
>>
>> And yes I know, you are going to say "Yare but"... cops are supposed
>> to be brave. But in reality Cops are just people. If you know that
>> there is an armed shooter in that room and if you push the door open
>> there is a very good possibility that he will shoot you. Will you be
>> first to open the door?
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>John, there are people who pick up and work with smelly, stinky trash every day. Its their job. I am sure they do not like the smell any more than other people. They do not say "Yeah!!!!!! Stinky trash!!!!!! I love that smell!!!!!!" No. They don't like the smell of stinky trash either. But its their job to work around smelly trash. And they do their job. The cops, seemingly, did not do their job very well. Now, I understand their job involves being shot at maybe killed. Yes. But they knew that when they applied for and accepted the job. Kind of like a person who volunteers to join the Army. Volunteer, since there is no longer a draft in the USA. And this Army volunteer refuses to fight. ???? Now with the huge Army, a person can be assigned to a desk in an office in North Dakota. So no fighting. But with the front line cops, its their job to deal with guns and killers. I've heard the stories of the military where if a soldier on the front line doesn't shoot the
>enemy and runs away he is rounded up and court martialed and shot. True or not, I don't know.
>
>And John, no I do not want to face an armed shooter. And I am not going to open the door with a shooter on the other side. But I'm not a hero. I'm not a police. I'm not in the Army. So I have a very valid reason to say no no no no no no.

You seem to equate being in the army or being a cop with being a hero.
Tain't so.

Actual data developed by the Army, dating back to at least WW II shows
that a rather small percentage of soldiers actually fire their rifle
in combat and an even smaller percent actually shoot at something.
As for Cops? Well, I've known some, both civilian and military, and
while I never compiled statistics I can't say as I ever met one that
was "balls to the wall, charge in without looking"! In fact I would
venture to say that those that have seen a few people shot will tend
to be very cautious.

A true instance.
The newspapers reported that a State Policeman had gone into a one
room shack where a Lumberjack armed with an axe was threatening to
kill a woman.
Sometime after the event I got to know the Police Sergeant who "was
the Hero". He was on the State Police pistol team and I got to know
him pretty well and I asked him about this hero business and he told
me, "well I knew old George was pretty much falling down drunk but he
did have that axe. So I got up next to the door and told the other
guys to start shooting then I slipped around, kicked the door in and
shot him in the leg".

Hardly some "Full speed ahead and Damn the torpedo's" thing but a
carefully planned and executed (and successful) assault.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 19:23:17 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> > On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>> >> >> >> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>> >> >> >> > >>>> M1 in .308.
>> >> >> >> > >>>> --
>> >> >> >> > >>>> Andrew Muzi
>> >> >> >> > >>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >> >> >> > >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> >> > >>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>> >> >> >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>> >> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> >> > >> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>> >> >> >> > >> 1950s. Both are very available:
>> >> >> >> > >> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>> >> >> >> > >> --
>> >> >> >> > >> Andrew Muzi
>> >> >> >> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> >> >> >> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>> >> >> >> > outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>> >> >> >> > https://thecmp.org/about/
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>> >> >> >> > now.
>> >> >> >> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>> >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>> >> >> >See the Products section of this webpage.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>> >> >> >This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>> >> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>> >> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>> >> >> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>> >> >> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>> >> >> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>> >> >> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>> >> >> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>> >> >
>> >> >OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>> >> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>> >> >> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>> >> >> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>> >> >> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>> >> >
>> >> >Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>> >> U.S.".
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
>> Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
>> was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
>> old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
>> one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
>> (where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
>> ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
>> 200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
>> Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?
>>
>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>> people?"
>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone?
>
>No one claims the gun itself possessed people's minds and forced them to use it. Its not like that horror movie Carrie I think where there is a doll that is possessed by a demon and kills people or mind controls people to kill other people. Something like that. The ready access of guns merely allows the relatively few people who "want shoot someone" to act on their desires.
>
Exactly. So the question then becomes "WHY" do some "gun owners" shoot
others while the vast majority do not.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2022 10:17:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 19:23:17 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
><ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> >> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> M1 in .308.
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> --
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> >> >> >> > >>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>> >> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> >> > >>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>>> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>>> >> >> >> > >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>>> >> >> >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>> >> >> >> > >>>
>>> >> >> >> > >> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>>> >> >> >> > >> 1950s. Both are very available:
>>> >> >> >> > >> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>>> >> >> >> > >> --
>>> >> >> >> > >> Andrew Muzi
>>> >> >> >> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> >> >> >> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>> >> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >> > > No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>>> >> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >> > > My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>>> >> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >> > > Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>>> >> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >> > > https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>>> >> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>>> >> >> >> > outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>>> >> >> >> > https://thecmp.org/about/
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>>> >> >> >> > now.
>>> >> >> >> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>>> >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>>> >> >> >See the Products section of this webpage.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>>> >> >> >This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>>> >> >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>>> >> >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>>> >> >> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>>> >> >> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>>> >> >> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>>> >> >> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>>> >> >> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>>> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>>> >> >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>>> >> >> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>>> >> >> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>>> >> >> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>>> >> >
>>> >> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>>> >> U.S.".
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >>
>>> >> John B.
>>> >
>>> >John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
>>> Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
>>> was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
>>> old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
>>> one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
>>> (where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
>>> ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
>>> 200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
>>> Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?
>>>
>>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
>>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
>>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>>> people?"
>>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
>>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone?
>>
>>No one claims the gun itself possessed people's minds and forced them to use it. Its not like that horror movie Carrie I think where there is a doll that is possessed by a demon and kills people or mind controls people to kill other people. Something like that. The ready access of guns merely allows the relatively few people who "want shoot someone" to act on their desires.
>>
>Exactly. So the question then becomes "WHY" do some "gun owners" shoot
>others while the vast majority do not.
>
>>An analogy. Probably a lot of former drunkards and dope users in prison. How many are drunks or drug addicts in prison? I'm guessing very few. Because the prison system does not give out alcohol and drugs to its inmates. So no one can get drunk or high on dope inside prison. Even if they really want to. Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. No access.
>
>Now, you are wrong, "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol.
>No access". It "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. Where
>THERE is No access."
>
>
>
>>> I don't have up to the
>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
>>> murder someone.
>>
>>2020 data.
>>https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
>>"In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400)."
>>
>>About double your percentages for 2020. No, not everyone who has access to a gun kills someone. I have access to guns myself. But if we can reduce the number of people who do murder others by reducing the number of guns, then that is a positive.
>>
>
>Well, is it "reduce deaths" or "reduce gun deaths" that counts?
>
>I ask as the U.S. had something like 38,824 Auto deaths in 2020. I
>read that the two most common caused of auto accidents are,
>inattention and speeding. Could a rigorous enforcement of existing
>traffic laws reduce this number? And if so why aren't the laws
>enforced?
>
>Or any laws? I recently read about a chap, awaiting execution, for a
>rape of a 10 year old and the murder of a 9 year old. In 1975.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
> >"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>
> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>
> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>
> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>
> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>
> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>
> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>
> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>
> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.

Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should state it more clearly, more blatantly.
Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass shootings every year aren't so bad!
Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
going back a couple decades!"

That should bring great consolation to the families and friends of those 45,000 each year. No?

- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>
> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself,...

I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns _allowed_ many
people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.

> after all
> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't have up to the
> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
> murder someone.

Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey, 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
Tell that to the families and friends of the victims. Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.

- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> > > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> > >>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> > >>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> > >>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> > >>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> > >>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> > >>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> > >>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> > >>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> > >>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> > >>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> > >>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> > >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> > >>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> > >>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> > >>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> > >>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> > >>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> > >>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> > >>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> > >>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> > >>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> > >>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> > >>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> > >>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> > >>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> > >>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> > >>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> > >>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> > >>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> > >>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> > >>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> > >>>>>>>> WW2.
> > >>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> > >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> > >>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> > >>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> > >>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> > >>>>>>> April, 1971
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> > >>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> > >>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> > >>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> > >>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> > >>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> > >>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> > >>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> > >>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> > >>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> > >>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> > >>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> > >>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> > >>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> > >>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> > >>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> > >>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> > >>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> > >>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> > >>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> > >>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> > >>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> > >>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> > >>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> > >>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> > >>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> > >>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> > >>>>>> bike?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> > >>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> > >>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> > >>>>> now.
> > >>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> > >>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> > >>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> > >>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> > >>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> > >>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> > >>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> > >>>> message.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> > >>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> > >>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> > >>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> > >>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> > >>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> > >>>
> > >>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> > >>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> > >>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> > >>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> > >>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> > >>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> > >>> Products section of this webpage.
> > >>>
> > >>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> > >>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> > >>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> > >>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> > >>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> > >>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> > >> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> > >> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> > >> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> > >> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> > >> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> > >> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> > >>
> > >> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> > >> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> > >
> > > OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> > > as usual.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> > >>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> > >>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> > >>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> > >>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> > >>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> > >>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> > >> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> > >> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> > >> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> > >> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> > >
> > > Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> > > school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> > > murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> > > time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> > > deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> > > beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> > > concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> > > just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> > > And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> > > lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> > > tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> > NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> > Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> > out a bad guy with a gun"
> >
> > What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> > double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>
> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>
> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>
> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer ..308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>
> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>
>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself,...
>
>I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns _allowed_ many
>people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
>
>> after all
>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't have up to the
>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
>> murder someone.
>
>Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey, 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
>Tell that to the families and friends of the victims. Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

There were 10.258 gun murders

There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
..In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides by 306.7%.
Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
<Much Snipped >

>> > What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>> > double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>>
>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>>
>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>>
>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>>
>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>>
>
>Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
>
>https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
>Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
>"Police aren’t required to protect you.
>When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
>"There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve” suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
>"The so-called “public duty doctrine” doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,” and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
>“What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,”
>

But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
to protect individuals.

From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
violate the rules and norms governing that society."

Would you have it different?

There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
So to protect you....
There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
impounding your car.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> <Much Snipped >
> >> > What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> >> > double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> >> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> >>
> >> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
> >>
> >> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> >>
> >> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> >>
> >> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> >>
> >
> >Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
> >
> >https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
> >Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
> >"Police aren’t required to protect you.
> >When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
> >"There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve” suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
> >"The so-called “public duty doctrine” doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,” and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
> >“What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,”
> >
> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
> to protect individuals.
>
> From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
>
> Would you have it different?
>
> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
> So to protect you....
> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
> impounding your car.
> --

Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils, or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.

Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.

Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.

Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics."

Couple that with the fact that many of these mass shooters use hollow-points - a bullet designed to fragment upon impact such that it creates even more damage to the tissue. Some of the parents of the Uvalde murders were asked to submit DNA samples to help identify the victims. Take a wild guess why this is, john - let me help you out since we know you're going full NRA here and supporting the idea that dozens of dead children are a price worth paying for emasculated MAGAtards to keep their big boy toys - It's because that little tiny bullet did so much damage to those little 8-year-old skulls that the children were unidentifiable.

So gee, let's just ignore the fact that there is a completely legal product on the market which was designed for the explicit purpose of inflicting maximum damage to human beings, and say that cars (heavily regulated, taxed, and restricted) are the real problem since more people are killed by them.

A car - when used for its designed purpose - doesn't kill anyone. An AR-15 - when used for its designed purpose - results in multiple deaths. Maybe it will take one of those little tiny bullets pulverizing that thick fucking skull of yours to convince you of the difference.

On 6/2/2022 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jun 2022 10:17:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 19:23:17 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
>>>>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
>>>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
>>>>>>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
>>>>>>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
>>>>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
>>>>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
>>>>>>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
>>>>>>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>>>>>>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
>>>>>>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
>>>>>>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
>>>>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
>>>>>>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
>>>>>>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
>>>>>>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
>>>>>> U.S.".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>
>>>>> John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
>>>> Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
>>>> was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
>>>> old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
>>>> one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
>>>> (where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
>>>> ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
>>>> 200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
>>>> Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?
>>>>
>>>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
>>>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
>>>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
>>>> people?"
>>>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
>>>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
>>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
>>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone?
>>>
>>> No one claims the gun itself possessed people's minds and forced them to use it. Its not like that horror movie Carrie I think where there is a doll that is possessed by a demon and kills people or mind controls people to kill other people. Something like that. The ready access of guns merely allows the relatively few people who "want shoot someone" to act on their desires.
>>>
>> Exactly. So the question then becomes "WHY" do some "gun owners" shoot
>> others while the vast majority do not.
>>
>>> An analogy. Probably a lot of former drunkards and dope users in prison. How many are drunks or drug addicts in prison? I'm guessing very few. Because the prison system does not give out alcohol and drugs to its inmates. So no one can get drunk or high on dope inside prison. Even if they really want to. Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. No access.
>>
>> Now, you are wrong, "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol.
>> No access". It "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. Where
>> THERE is No access."
>>
>>
>>
>>>> I don't have up to the
>>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
>>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
>>>> murder someone.
>>>
>>> 2020 data.
>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
>>> "In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400)."
>>>
>>> About double your percentages for 2020. No, not everyone who has access to a gun kills someone. I have access to guns myself. But if we can reduce the number of people who do murder others by reducing the number of guns, then that is a positive.
>>>
>>
>> Well, is it "reduce deaths" or "reduce gun deaths" that counts?
>>
>> I ask as the U.S. had something like 38,824 Auto deaths in 2020. I
>> read that the two most common caused of auto accidents are,
>> inattention and speeding. Could a rigorous enforcement of existing
>> traffic laws reduce this number? And if so why aren't the laws
>> enforced?
>>
>> Or any laws? I recently read about a chap, awaiting execution, for a
>> rape of a 10 year old and the murder of a 9 year old. In 1975.
>
> Heh! I just came across some more statistics that make even car deaths
> look like a walk in the park.
> "Over 96,700 people die from drug overdoses in a year."
> https://drugabusestatistics.org/drug-overdose-deaths/
>

On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
>> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>>
>> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
>> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
>> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>>
>> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
>> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>>
>> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
>> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>>
>> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>>
>> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
>> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>>
>> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>>
>> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
>
> Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should state it more clearly, more blatantly.
> Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass shootings every year aren't so bad!
> Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
> going back a couple decades!"
>
> That should bring great consolation to the families and friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
>

Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/3/2022 7:59 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> <Much Snipped >
>>>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
>>>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
>>>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
>>>>
>>>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>>>>
>>>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
>>>>
>>>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
>>>>
>>>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
>>>
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
>>> Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
>>> "Police aren’t required to protect you.
>>> When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
>>> "There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve” suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
>>> "The so-called “public duty doctrine” doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,” and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
>>> “What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,”
>>>
>> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
>> to protect individuals.
>>
>> From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
>> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
>> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
>> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
>>
>> Would you have it different?
>>
>> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
>> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
>> So to protect you....
>> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
>> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
>> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
>> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
>> impounding your car.
>> --
>
> Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils, or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.
>
> Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
>
> Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.
>
> Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics."
>
> Couple that with the fact that many of these mass shooters use hollow-points - a bullet designed to fragment upon impact such that it creates even more damage to the tissue. Some of the parents of the Uvalde murders were asked to submit DNA samples to help identify the victims. Take a wild guess why this is, john - let me help you out since we know you're going full NRA here and supporting the idea that dozens of dead children are a price worth paying for emasculated MAGAtards to keep their big boy toys - It's because that little tiny bullet did so much damage to those little 8-year-old skulls that the children were unidentifiable.
>
> So gee, let's just ignore the fact that there is a completely legal product on the market which was designed for the explicit purpose of inflicting maximum damage to human beings, and say that cars (heavily regulated, taxed, and restricted) are the real problem since more people are killed by them.
>
> A car - when used for its designed purpose - doesn't kill anyone. An AR-15 - when used for its designed purpose - results in multiple deaths. Maybe it will take one of those little tiny bullets pulverizing that thick fucking skull of yours to convince you of the difference.
>

I don't know where you're going with ballistic comparisons
(I'd rather not catch a .556FMJ OR a .308)but the usual
defensive pistol rounds are highly frangible and achieve the
same thing in a different way.

https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/geltest/420/8df8dfae38655cc3dbcea76eb2aadb72.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/jp2e98fw

As previously discussed nearly to death here, rifles are a
very small subset, fatal or not, criminal or defensive.

meanwhile:
https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/05/24/florida-grandmother-shoots-kills-home-intruder/

https://www.foxnews.com/us/i-hit-him-3-times-74-year-old-ohio-man-says-about-shooting-alleged-teen-home-intruder

https://foac-pac.org/Louisiana-Self-Defense:-Teen-Carjacker-Hospitalized-After-Victim-Shoots-Back/Defense-Story/3204

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/ccw-holder-fires-gun-attempted-carjacker-roseland/

etc etc
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:56:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 7:06 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:05:58 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>> Am 02.06.2022 um 11:31 schrieb russell...@yahoo.com:
> >>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5,
> >>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an answer about Gun Control if you informed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them that more people were killed with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that Tom is a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this case knives (or hands and feet for that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter) outnumber rifles for homicide by a lot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of not specifying "more murders by a large margin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs an assault weapon" when he can't even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed the most people in this entire world is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> limited production and use. But I don't think there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 Typical hunting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> side about something he is completely clueless
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the internal magazine from the top. Through the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber.
> >>>>>>>>>>> .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing
> >>>>>>>>>>> length and different power. 30-06 is a little more
> >>>>>>>>>>> powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to
> >>>>>>>>>>> 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308
> >>>>>>>>>>> Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for
> >>>>>>>>>>> caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for
> >>>>>>>>>>> WW2.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ -- Andrew
> >>>>>>>>>> Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
> >>>>>>>>>> April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new
> >>>>>>>>> barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of.
> >>>>>>>>> .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different
> >>>>>>>>> length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP
> >>>>>>>>> company puts different barrels with different gas ports in
> >>>>>>>>> the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible
> >>>>>>>>> with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT
> >>>>>>>>> selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make
> >>>>>>>>> 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US
> >>>>>>>>> Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308
> >>>>>>>>> caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below
> >>>>>>>>> talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was
> >>>>>>>>> young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in
> >>>>>>>>> .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1
> >>>>>>>>> Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as
> >>>>>>>>> surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply
> >>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any
> >>>>>>>>> surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were
> >>>>>>>>> all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of
> >>>>>>>>> these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported
> >>>>>>>>> for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are
> >>>>>>>>> bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon
> >>>>>>>>> bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time
> >>>>>>>>> Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have
> >>>>>>>>> Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits
> >>>>>>>>> you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace
> >>>>>>>>> all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour
> >>>>>>>>> bike?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>>>>> now.
> >>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the
> >>>>>>> NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that
> >>>>>>> cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does
> >>>>>>> it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who
> >>>>>>> craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an
> >>>>>>> expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>>>>>> M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up
> >>>>>>> crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google
> >>>>>>> message.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after
> >>>>>> the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made
> >>>>>> in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly
> >>>>>> weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant
> >>>>>> gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in
> >>>>>> 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's
> >>>>>> first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO
> >>>>>> round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene
> >>>>>> Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And
> >>>>>> it became the M16 military rifle.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester.
> >>>>>> 7.62x51mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite See the
> >>>>>> Products section of this webpage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round
> >>>>>> M2)"?????? This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is
> >>>>>> the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the
> >>>>>> M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware
> >>>>>> of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol
> >>>>>> cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay
> >>>>> was shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air
> >>>>> Force. but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint
> >>>>> Chiefs of Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in
> >>>>> 1965, or thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the
> >>>>> official firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >>>>
> >>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong
> >>>> as usual.
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd
> >>>>>>> Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd
> >>>>>>> Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about
> >>>>>>> it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so
> >>>>>>> bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer
> >>>>>> happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4
> >>>>>> killed, so not too many I guess.
> >>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then
> >>>>> committed suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that
> >>>>> apparently drove 200 miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y. Forget
> >>>>> the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
> >>>>
> >>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas
> >>>> school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor
> >>>> murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean
> >>>> time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the
> >>>> deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to
> >>>> beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a
> >>>> concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm
> >>>> just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit.
> >>>> And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most
> >>>> lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person
> >>>> tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >>> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> >>> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> >>> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> >>> out a bad guy with a gun"
> >>>
> >>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> >>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> >> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> >
> > Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced. It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
> > "Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D, formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities during World War II."
> >
> > You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that is the way it works. But not always.
> >
> > My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually, almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with only one "L".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
> >>
> >
> > You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3 are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand. M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50 caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use your mind to think?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
> > The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it. AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber, does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a pistol round. Ha Ha.
> >
> > Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter. Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> >
> > It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1 Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It was more or less an M1 Garand.. But not an official made by and in the USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> >
> > But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06 round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple science. I would think even you could understand that. But apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people said?
> >
> > For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed, weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or lightest, or heaviest.. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to get it right for accuracy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> >>
> >
> > We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle instead.
> >
> > Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but the gun is to blame. Sounds good.
> >
> > As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids? Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50 miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work than you doing it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
> >>
> >
> > https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
> > Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad, comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at all.
> > Top ten were:
> > St. Louis, MO
> > Baltimore, MD
> > Birmingham, AL
> > Detroit, MI
> > Dayton, OH
> > Baton Rouge, LA
> > New Orleans, LA
> > Kansas City, MO
> > Memphis, TN
> > Cleveland, OH
> > Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican governors.
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
> > Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no one ever mentions them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
> >>
> >> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.
> >
> > Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the country. All the way over to the French side from the Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there. Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains. You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So
> why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?
>
>
> >"NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>
> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>
> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>
> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>
> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>
> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>
> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>
> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>
> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/2/2022 8:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 5:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:34:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
>>>
>>> If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Gun fetishists can't admit that.
>>
>> But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
>> from sale.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
>> "The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
>> is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
>> firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."
>>
>> Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.
>>
>
> Calling a small caliber lightweight semi an 'assault rifle' doesn't make
> it so.
>
> 'Assault rifles' began in 1944/45:
>
> https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/04/sturmgewehr-the-stg44-was-the-first-assault-rifle/
>
>
> But were effectively banned in USA since 1934:
> https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act
>
> moreso in 1968.

In other words, you prefer to restrict the definition so it purposely
excludes gun fetishists favorite toy, the one whose only practical use
is for mass shootings.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/2/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
> people?"
>
> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".

You can't explain it because it isn't true, and/or certainly isn't
relevant.

A country with a higher percentage of mentally ill people would not lead
the developed world in gun murders per capita if that country did not
allow guns designed for murder to be obscenely available.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 6:23:34 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Fri, 03 Jun 2022 10:17:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 19:23:17 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 5:48:27 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 00:21:21 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:04:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2022 4:56 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 10:31 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 7:41:54 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2022 12:42 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed with knives than guns.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liar and a fool.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your cluelessness is truly astounding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M1 in .308.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1950s. Both are very available:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
> >>>>>>>>>>> outlet for US Government surplus arms.
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://thecmp.org/about/
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
> >>>>>>>>>>> now.
> >>>>>>>>>> There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
> >>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
> >>>>>>>>> See the Products section of this webpage.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> >>>>>>>>> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.
> >>>>>>>> Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
> >>>>>>>> service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
> >>>>>>>> shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
> >>>>>>>> but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> >>>>>>>> Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
> >>>>>>>> thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
> >>>>>>>> firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> >>>>>>>> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> >>>>>>>> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> >>>>>>>> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> >>>>>>>> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S..
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
> >>>>>> U.S.".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.
> >>>> Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
> >>>> was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
> >>>> old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
> >>>> one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
> >>>> (where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
> >>>> ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
> >>>> 200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
> >>>> Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?
> >>>>
> >>>> You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a
> >>>> disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
> >>>> Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
> >>>> people?"
> >>>> I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you
> >>>> have some very deranged people in the U.S.".
> >>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
> >>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
> >>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone?
> >>>
> >>> No one claims the gun itself possessed people's minds and forced them to use it. Its not like that horror movie Carrie I think where there is a doll that is possessed by a demon and kills people or mind controls people to kill other people. Something like that. The ready access of guns merely allows the relatively few people who "want shoot someone" to act on their desires.
> >>>
> >> Exactly. So the question then becomes "WHY" do some "gun owners" shoot
> >> others while the vast majority do not.
> >>
> >>> An analogy. Probably a lot of former drunkards and dope users in prison. How many are drunks or drug addicts in prison? I'm guessing very few. Because the prison system does not give out alcohol and drugs to its inmates.. So no one can get drunk or high on dope inside prison. Even if they really want to. Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. No access.
> >>
> >> Now, you are wrong, "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol.
> >> No access". It "Solves the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. Where
> >> THERE is No access."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> I don't have up to the
> >>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
> >>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
> >>>> murder someone.
> >>>
> >>> 2020 data.
> >>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
> >>> "In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400)."
> >>>
> >>> About double your percentages for 2020. No, not everyone who has access to a gun kills someone. I have access to guns myself. But if we can reduce the number of people who do murder others by reducing the number of guns, then that is a positive.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, is it "reduce deaths" or "reduce gun deaths" that counts?
> >>
> >> I ask as the U.S. had something like 38,824 Auto deaths in 2020. I
> >> read that the two most common caused of auto accidents are,
> >> inattention and speeding. Could a rigorous enforcement of existing
> >> traffic laws reduce this number? And if so why aren't the laws
> >> enforced?
> >>
> >> Or any laws? I recently read about a chap, awaiting execution, for a
> >> rape of a 10 year old and the murder of a 9 year old. In 1975.
> >
> > Heh! I just came across some more statistics that make even car deaths
> > look like a walk in the park.
> > "Over 96,700 people die from drug overdoses in a year."
> > https://drugabusestatistics.org/drug-overdose-deaths/
> >
> Illegal worldwide for 110 years. How's that going?
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Since the start of Fauci's false pandemic and Joe Biden's open borders, 300,000 people have died from Fentanyl alone. This despite half a dozen different opioids and other chemicals that are even easier to overdose on. Once these people become addicted it lasts as long as it takes to overdose. The people that manage to get over their addictions are a tiny percentage. Usually when they can't get any more they go to a government paid for rehab center which feeds them methadone, this makes them more sensitive to opioids and then when they get off of the program they immediately go out and buy more drugs and often overdose immediately. Those that do manage to overcome addiction almost always do it at the cost of a damaged heart and shortened lifespan.

On 6/3/2022 1:40 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 20:59:13 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:05:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself,...
>>
>> I haven't heard anyone say that. But certainly, the guns _allowed_ many
>> people to kill many others. Rapidly. En masse.
>>
>>> after all
>>> there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
>>> access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't have up to the
>>> minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
>>> apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
>>> murder someone.
>>
>> Cut to the chase. Say what you mean. Just say "Hey, 10,000 murders is nothing to worry about."
>> Tell that to the families and friends of the victims. Perhaps they'll thank you for the wise words.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> There were 10.258 gun murders
>
> There were 71,130 deaths due to illegal drugs (2019)
> .In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides by 306.7%.
> Auto deaths amounted to 38,824
> Covid - 1,032,862 (from 2020)

Again, state your point clearly. Is it that nobody should be bothered by
gun murders? Really?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/3/2022 9:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
>>> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
>>> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
>>> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>>>
>>>
>>> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
>>> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>>>
>>> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
>>> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>>>
>>> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>>>
>>> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>>>
>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>>>
>>> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
>>
>> Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should state it more
>> clearly, more blatantly.
>> Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass shootings every
>> year aren't so bad!
>> Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all terrorist attacks
>> and civil wars all over the world
>> going back a couple decades!"
>>
>> That should bring great consolation to the families and friends of
>> those 45,000 each year. No?
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>>
>
> Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.

So people should not be bothered if their loved ones are killed by guns?
The parents in Uvalde should not worry that the bodies of their children
were literally unrecognizable? We should do nothing to stop gun murders?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 6:24:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives."
> >> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
> >>
> >> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
> >>
> >> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
> >> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
> >> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
> >>
> >> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
> >> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
> >>
> >> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
> >> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
> >>
> >> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
> >>
> >> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
> >> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
> >>
> >> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
> >>
> >> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
> >
> > Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should state it more clearly, more blatantly.
> > Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass shootings every year aren't so bad!
> > Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
> > going back a couple decades!"
> >
> > That should bring great consolation to the families and friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> >
> Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.

Frank simply cannot stop himself from lying about anything and everything. There have been 30 mass shootings in the USA since 1949. But he tells us that the 45,000 gun deaths under his lord and master Biden which is a 14% increase from the year before and which are 65% suicides and the remainder almost entirely gang related using illegal weapons can ALL be stopped by making magazines hold fewer rounds. Seems to me that Frank can end his worries simply by committing suicide himself. We're waiting Frank...........

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 6:40:15 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 7:59 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> <Much Snipped >
> >>>>> What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
> >>>>> double or triple local taxes to pay for them?
> >>>> This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?
> >>>>
> >>>> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
> >>>>
> >>>> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?
> >>>>
> >>>> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?
> >>>>
> >>>> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Wrong again Tommy. I just read an amusing (said with much irony) story of the police not going in to confront the shooter in Uvalde. There is no law requiring them to. Police don't have to confront shooters. Or presumably anyone with a gun. Or maybe not even any law breaker.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-required-protect-people-during-183721288.html
> >>> Some quotes from the article that sound funny, in a sick disgusting way.
> >>> "Police aren’t required to protect you.
> >>> When shots ring out in a school, the law doesn’t demand police rush inside and confront the shooter, even if lives could be saved."
> >>> "There’s an expectation that they will — as the motto “To Protect and to Serve†suggests — and departments train and prepare to do so. But as the courts have found, there is no law to hold officers accountable if they don’t."
> >>> "The so-called “public duty doctrine†doesn’t apply to mass shootings only, but also a practically innumerable spectrum of possible scenarios, according to experts. The doctrine holds that “an individual has no duty to come to the aid of an individual,†and that principle extends to police officers. They have no more legal responsibility to save someone than an average citizen, in most circumstances."
> >>> “What duty do police have to protect individual members of the public? The short answer is not much,â€
> >>>
> >> But Police are, if I'm not mistaken, assigned to uphold the law. Not
> >> to protect individuals.
> >>
> >> From what I read, "Law enforcement is the activity of some members of
> >> government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by
> >> discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who
> >> violate the rules and norms governing that society."
> >>
> >> Would you have it different?
> >>
> >> There are some 42,915 auto deaths in 2021
> >> The most recent data I have for gun murders 13,927 in 2019
> >> So to protect you....
> >> There you are whizzing down the highway in your brand new
> >> supper-dooper Lambradoodlebug, both hands on the wheel with your
> >> shoulders rared back (as the song has it) and the cops stop you. Sir,
> >> you were driving 10 MPH over the speed limit and to protect you we are
> >> impounding your car.
> >> --
> >
> > Cars weren't designed to kill people. Neither were machetes, pencils, or any other device you care to mention that was repurposed as a murder weapon. You could kill someone with a potato if you hit them hard enough with it. The AR-15 was designed as an assault rifle with one specific goal - to inflict maximum killing effect. The following is an excerpt from testimony before congress during hearings into the poor reliability of the M-16, between Eugene Stoner (the designer of the AR-15) and Representative Ichord of Missouri in 1967.
> >
> > Ichord: One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
> >
> > Stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.
> >
> > Reread that last line John..."this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics."
> >
> > Couple that with the fact that many of these mass shooters use hollow-points - a bullet designed to fragment upon impact such that it creates even more damage to the tissue. Some of the parents of the Uvalde murders were asked to submit DNA samples to help identify the victims. Take a wild guess why this is, john - let me help you out since we know you're going full NRA here and supporting the idea that dozens of dead children are a price worth paying for emasculated MAGAtards to keep their big boy toys - It's because that little tiny bullet did so much damage to those little 8-year-old skulls that the children were unidentifiable.
> >
> > So gee, let's just ignore the fact that there is a completely legal product on the market which was designed for the explicit purpose of inflicting maximum damage to human beings, and say that cars (heavily regulated, taxed, and restricted) are the real problem since more people are killed by them.
> >
> > A car - when used for its designed purpose - doesn't kill anyone. An AR-15 - when used for its designed purpose - results in multiple deaths. Maybe it will take one of those little tiny bullets pulverizing that thick fucking skull of yours to convince you of the difference.
> >
> I don't know where you're going with ballistic comparisons
> (I'd rather not catch a .556FMJ OR a .308)but the usual
> defensive pistol rounds are highly frangible and achieve the
> same thing in a different way.
>
> https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/geltest/420/8df8dfae38655cc3dbcea76eb2aadb72.jpg
>
> https://tinyurl.com/jp2e98fw
>
> As previously discussed nearly to death here, rifles are a
> very small subset, fatal or not, criminal or defensive.
>
> meanwhile:
> https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2022/05/24/florida-grandmother-shoots-kills-home-intruder/
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/i-hit-him-3-times-74-year-old-ohio-man-says-about-shooting-alleged-teen-home-intruder
>
> https://foac-pac.org/Louisiana-Self-Defense:-Teen-Carjacker-Hospitalized-After-Victim-Shoots-Back/Defense-Story/3204
>
> https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/ccw-holder-fires-gun-attempted-carjacker-roseland/
>
> etc etc

And another case of someone entirely ignorant of guns tells us that hollowpoints are designed to fragment. The ignorance of people like Flunky is just like that of Russell and Frank. Hollow points are designed to EXPAND their bullet size and not to fragment. But that is something he doesn't understand so he simply shoots his mouth off just like he does about everything else. And he maintains a psuedonym so that he can't be identified with his own ignorance.

On 6/3/2022 9:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/3/2022 9:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 10:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or
>>>>> knives."
>>>> Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
>>>> inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
>>>> https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
>>>> disruptive and goes on for a very long time.
>>>>
>>>> possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
>>>> https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.
>>>>
>>>> Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
>>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005
>>>>
>>>> https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.
>>>
>>> Andrew, your message might be too subtle. You should
>>> state it more clearly, more blatantly.
>>> Perhaps "Hey, 45,000 gun deaths and hundreds of mass
>>> shootings every year aren't so bad!
>>> Why, it's not even as bad as the sum total of all
>>> terrorist attacks and civil wars all over the world
>>> going back a couple decades!"
>>>
>>> That should bring great consolation to the families and
>>> friends of those 45,000 each year. No?
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Mayhem is not uniquely USAian nor uniquely firearm related.
>
> So people should not be bothered if their loved ones are
> killed by guns? The parents in Uvalde should not worry that
> the bodies of their children were literally unrecognizable?
> We should do nothing to stop gun murders?
>

There are not degrees of 'dead'.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/arrest-hit-and-run-death-mother-of-5

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971