On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 07:12:19 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
>with remote detonation.
>https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
>But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.

Conventional compressed air SCUBA is good for 170ft. Technical diving
gas mixtures will work down to 330ft. The world record for SCUBA is
1,089ft. The water depth east of Bornholm averages about 46m (151ft)
with a maximum depth of 105m (344ft).
<https://www.marinefinland.fi/en-US/Nature_and_how_it_changes/The_unique_Baltic_Sea/The_Baltic_Sea_in_numbers>
That range varies from plausible to impossible. I would need to know
the exact location of the pipeline and it's shallowest points. If the
explosion was at one of the shallow points, then maybe setting the
explosive(s) using SCUBA is possible. I haven't found the exact
locations yet.

Next comes the remote triggering of the explosive. RF (radio
frequencies) do not easily penetrate water. The frequencies used to
communicate with submarines are in the VLF (very low frequency) region
at 3 to 30KHz:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines>
Transmitters capable of generating the necessary high power levels
exist on land and are all in the hands of the military. Underwater
receivers are possible, but the length of the required antenna is very
long and would leave far too much evidence behind.

A floating buoy receiver with about 1000ft of cable to the explosive
would work at any frequency, but again would leave too much evidence
behind.

Sound conducts far better in water than in air. It might be possible
to use a sound triggered explosive. However, penetrating the various
thermoclines and dealing with large amounts of engine noises from
nearby large vessels, will be difficult problems to solve. It would
also not be particularly reliable.

The explosive could have been triggered with a simple timer, thus
eliminating the need for remote triggering. The problem is that once
activated, there's no easy way to disarm it. That can be ignored if
those setting the explosives are very well trained or suicidal.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

AMuzi wrote:

> Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
> with remote detonation.

It was not Greta Tunbark accidentally setting off the fuse while skinny
dipping with Andreas Malm, and Luisa Neubauer, that's for sure, anon UK
Rear Admiral Obvious!
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Blow_Up_a_Pipeline>

> https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
> But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.
You made the same mistake as the Yahoo-fishing Francis! Being a good
Midwesterner, he is not even aware that BI is Axel Springer Media, which
is a post-WWII US-licensee, now KKR controlled, and 100% pro-Ukro since
February. Not the place to look for fair&balanced information about
this war, or any other with Neocon interest.

Not even-keeled either, but autotranslated:
NATO solves problem for Habeck and Scholz by blowing up Nordstream
SEPTEMBER 28, 2022
By Mechthild Schwarz

(....)

Bullshit alarm or the inevitable commission and its expected conclusion

The way forward in the Nordstream terror saga is clear. An international
commission of inquiry under the leadership of Denmark and/or Sweden with
defined participation of other "affected parties", such as certain
Baltic Sea riparians (naturally excluding Russia) - will present a
result after months of industrious investigations and circumstantial
evidence gathering that will go something like this: "We don't know
exactly, but according to the information we have, it can only have been
Russia".
The investigation will be conducted in camera (to "protect" the
investigation team or to allow the team to "work undisturbed"). Even the
"pieces of evidence" - except perhaps wooden models of fragments of the
blown-up pipeline - will be withheld from the public ("protection from
inspection of our special investigation methods", "national security"
and the like). The result report will first, in order to live up to the
claim of the most brutally thorough reappraisal, state that even the
most idiotic hypotheses were investigated (with the sole purpose of
rejecting them over many pages - see the widely discussed possibility of
a meteorite impact (!) in the investigation of the causes of the crash
of MH-17) - in order to then come to the politically predetermined
conclusion. As with all reports, the Western press will "frame" the
report's arbitrary, ablogical political conclusion as proof of Russia's
culpability, missing (or suppressed) evidence or beam-bending dialectics
in justification or not. All other explanatory approaches are relegated
- best practice - to the realm of conspiracy theories.

The Expected Avalanche of the Insubstantial

Entertaining but "in the big picture" immaterial are details on the
question of who exactly ordered the terrorist attack, who planned it,
and who pressed the button (or set the timer) to detonate it: The
explosive charges could have been set by a Ukrainian version of Navy
Seals, then detonated by a Finnish, Polish, Estonian cruiser/fishing
boat, the planning may have been done in Bristol by a special operation
called "Nogas4EU" headed by a U.S. NATO general flown in from Hawaii
especially for the purpose in June. All just freely made up by me, but
not really disprovable or provable.
Expect an avalanche of such factoids, theories, hypotheses, explanations
and conspiracy stories (also scattered by Western intelligence agencies)
in the coming weeks and months. This expected avalanche of news has only
one purpose: to wear you down and distract you from the essential under
a continuous fire of lies.
And the essential is: NATO did it. The USA ordered it. The German
government wanted it.
And you know it now, too.

--
Gonzalo Lira "with his fellow bolshie propagandists" Syriangirl,
Thomson, and Galloway: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhHe5lU1Jg>
(Calling out the fake video was just a clever Kremlinist plot .oO°)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 07:12:19 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
>> with remote detonation.
>> https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
>> But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.
>
> Conventional compressed air SCUBA is good for 170ft. Technical diving
> gas mixtures will work down to 330ft. The world record for SCUBA is
> 1,089ft. The water depth east of Bornholm averages about 46m (151ft)
> with a maximum depth of 105m (344ft).
> <https://www.marinefinland.fi/en-US/Nature_and_how_it_changes/The_unique_Baltic_Sea/The_Baltic_Sea_in_numbers>
> That range varies from plausible to impossible. I would need to know
> the exact location of the pipeline and it's shallowest points. If the
> explosion was at one of the shallow points, then maybe setting the
> explosive(s) using SCUBA is possible. I haven't found the exact
> locations yet.
>
> Next comes the remote triggering of the explosive. RF (radio
> frequencies) do not easily penetrate water. The frequencies used to
> communicate with submarines are in the VLF (very low frequency) region
> at 3 to 30KHz:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines>
> Transmitters capable of generating the necessary high power levels
> exist on land and are all in the hands of the military. Underwater
> receivers are possible, but the length of the required antenna is very
> long and would leave far too much evidence behind.
>
> A floating buoy receiver with about 1000ft of cable to the explosive
> would work at any frequency, but again would leave too much evidence
> behind.
>
> Sound conducts far better in water than in air. It might be possible
> to use a sound triggered explosive. However, penetrating the various
> thermoclines and dealing with large amounts of engine noises from
> nearby large vessels, will be difficult problems to solve. It would
> also not be particularly reliable.
>
> The explosive could have been triggered with a simple timer, thus
> eliminating the need for remote triggering. The problem is that once
> activated, there's no easy way to disarm it. That can be ignored if
> those setting the explosives are very well trained or suicidal.
>
>

Set the explosives in place and THEN start the timer. You’d make a lousy
terrorist, Jeff (not that that’s a bad thing).

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 18:41:29 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ralph@invalid.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> The explosive could have been triggered with a simple timer, thus
>> eliminating the need for remote triggering. The problem is that once
>> activated, there's no easy way to disarm it. That can be ignored if
>> those setting the explosives are very well trained or suicidal.

>Set the explosives in place and THEN start the timer.

Of course. I didn't suggest traveling with a live bomb. However, no
matter how or when the timer is started, there is always the
possibility of something changing that would require delaying or
deactivating the bomb. Best to make sure everyone and everything are
in their proper places before pressing the button. For example, if a
large vessel, owned by a politically sensitive nation, decides to park
itself above the explosion site, the vessel might sink due to the loss
of buoyancy caused by the methane bubbles in the water.
<https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1350-bubbling-seas-can-sink-ships/>
Double, bubble, toil and trouble. Fire burn and Baltic bubble.

>You’d make a lousy
>terrorist, Jeff (not that that’s a bad thing).

<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/jeffl-06.jpg>
Osama bin Liebermann circa 1981.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:35:57 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> AMuzi wrote:
>
> > Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
> > with remote detonation.
> It was not Greta Tunbark accidentally setting off the fuse while skinny
> dipping with Andreas Malm, and Luisa Neubauer, that's for sure, anon UK
> Rear Admiral Obvious!
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Blow_Up_a_Pipeline>
> > https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
> > But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.
> You made the same mistake as the Yahoo-fishing Francis! Being a good
> Midwesterner, he is not even aware that BI is Axel Springer Media, which
> is a post-WWII US-licensee, now KKR controlled, and 100% pro-Ukro since
> February. Not the place to look for fair&balanced information about
> this war, or any other with Neocon interest.
>
>
> Not even-keeled either, but autotranslated:
> NATO solves problem for Habeck and Scholz by blowing up Nordstream
> SEPTEMBER 28, 2022
> By Mechthild Schwarz
>
> (....)
>
> Bullshit alarm or the inevitable commission and its expected conclusion
>
> The way forward in the Nordstream terror saga is clear. An international
> commission of inquiry under the leadership of Denmark and/or Sweden with
> defined participation of other "affected parties", such as certain
> Baltic Sea riparians (naturally excluding Russia) - will present a
> result after months of industrious investigations and circumstantial
> evidence gathering that will go something like this: "We don't know
> exactly, but according to the information we have, it can only have been
> Russia".
> The investigation will be conducted in camera (to "protect" the
> investigation team or to allow the team to "work undisturbed"). Even the
> "pieces of evidence" - except perhaps wooden models of fragments of the
> blown-up pipeline - will be withheld from the public ("protection from
> inspection of our special investigation methods", "national security"
> and the like). The result report will first, in order to live up to the
> claim of the most brutally thorough reappraisal, state that even the
> most idiotic hypotheses were investigated (with the sole purpose of
> rejecting them over many pages - see the widely discussed possibility of
> a meteorite impact (!) in the investigation of the causes of the crash
> of MH-17) - in order to then come to the politically predetermined
> conclusion. As with all reports, the Western press will "frame" the
> report's arbitrary, ablogical political conclusion as proof of Russia's
> culpability, missing (or suppressed) evidence or beam-bending dialectics
> in justification or not. All other explanatory approaches are relegated
> - best practice - to the realm of conspiracy theories.
>
> The Expected Avalanche of the Insubstantial
>
> Entertaining but "in the big picture" immaterial are details on the
> question of who exactly ordered the terrorist attack, who planned it,
> and who pressed the button (or set the timer) to detonate it: The
> explosive charges could have been set by a Ukrainian version of Navy
> Seals, then detonated by a Finnish, Polish, Estonian cruiser/fishing
> boat, the planning may have been done in Bristol by a special operation
> called "Nogas4EU" headed by a U.S. NATO general flown in from Hawaii
> especially for the purpose in June. All just freely made up by me, but
> not really disprovable or provable.
> Expect an avalanche of such factoids, theories, hypotheses, explanations
> and conspiracy stories (also scattered by Western intelligence agencies)
> in the coming weeks and months. This expected avalanche of news has only
> one purpose: to wear you down and distract you from the essential under
> a continuous fire of lies.
> And the essential is: NATO did it. The USA ordered it. The German
> government wanted it.
> And you know it now, too.
>
> --
> Gonzalo Lira "with his fellow bolshie propagandists" Syriangirl,
> Thomson, and Galloway: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhHe5lU1Jg>
> (Calling out the fake video was just a clever Kremlinist plot .oO°)
>
This:
"distract you from the essential under a continuous fire of lies"
Great phrasing, Sepp.
>
Andre Jute
Charisma is the art of getting your own way without seeming to do anything.
>

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 3:13:37 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 1:14:41 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/30/2022 8:02 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > >
> > > Tucker loves it that the lefty loons hate him, and indeed, like most
> > > Fox news shows, he owns cable news at his time slot.
> >
> > His viewership proves that idiots abound.
> >
> All you guys who still think of yourselves as Christians or decent people should feel sorry for the fake "professor" Franki-boy. Imagine how he will feel for eight eternal years when, after President Trump's second term, and Governor DeSantis's two terms, Tucker Carlson becomes president.
> >
> Andre Jute
> I'll have to practice a whole lot before I become that good.

I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 5:12:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/1/2022 2:43 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 12:43:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> As for radar coverage, the Baltic Sea is surrounded by nine countries:
> >> Denmark, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Finland
> >> and Sweden. Tell us which country is doing the radar coverage.
> >
> > All of them via the MONALISA 2.0 system:
> > <https://www.seatrafficmanagement.info/projects/monalisa-2/>
> > <https://www.seatrafficmanagement.info/projects/stm-balt-safe/>
> >
> > Oddly, there doesn't seem to be much marine traffic near the area in
> > question, around the island of Bornholm. Most of the traffic goes
> > north of the island:
> > <https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:14.5/centery:55.3/zoom:8>
> > Click on any vessel for details.
> >
> > Traffic map:
> > <https://www.vesselfinder.com>
> > Find the Baltic area and click on "Density Map -> All Types" (icon on
> > the left edge of the page) to see the traffic lanes.
> >
> > Instead of radar, commercial shipping use AIS for vessel tracking:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system>
> > In the Baltic, if something appears on the radar that is not also on
> > the AIS system, the local coast guard will attempt to identify the
> > vessel. Military vessels will typically announce their location via
> > AIS, but will sometimes spoof their location:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system#Spoofing>
> >
> > In the Baltic, vessel traffic is managed by the IMO which requires all
> > vessels to be AIS equipped:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Maritime_Organization>
> > Procedures for collision avoidance and traffic control use Sweden's
> > STM or MONALISA 2.0 system:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_traffic_management>
> > Videos on what it does and how it works:
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vsswV29uuA&list=UU-CJSsJzqB_MwP1Nkl6m4zg&index=1&t=0s>
> > Submarines can be AIS equipped:
> > <https://www.scires.com/What-We-Do/Products/AIS>
> > <https://professionalmariner.com/true-heading-ais-receivers-to-be-used-on-us-submarines/>
> >
> > If it floats in the Baltic, it will be identified and tracked.
> >
> >
> Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
> with remote detonation.
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
>
> But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.

Remember that the Black Sea is the main supply route for most of Russia. So that route has ALWAYS bee under dramatically close scrutiny. We have Biden ON video saying that he would destroy the pipeline if Russia invaded the Ukraine and we have Poland's leader saying "Thank you America" after the explosions. Not to mention we have that brainless wonder Francis Krygowski saying that if Tucker Carlson pointed out those very facts they are false, The very fact that Krygowski doesn't think so means that they are 100% real. Krygowski over the years has shown himself to be ALWAYS wrong about everything.

On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 12:51:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 18:41:29 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
><ralph@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> The explosive could have been triggered with a simple timer, thus
>>> eliminating the need for remote triggering. The problem is that once
>>> activated, there's no easy way to disarm it. That can be ignored if
>>> those setting the explosives are very well trained or suicidal.
>
>>Set the explosives in place and THEN start the timer.
>
>Of course. I didn't suggest traveling with a live bomb. However, no
>matter how or when the timer is started, there is always the
>possibility of something changing that would require delaying or
>deactivating the bomb. Best to make sure everyone and everything are
>in their proper places before pressing the button. For example, if a
>large vessel, owned by a politically sensitive nation, decides to park
>itself above the explosion site, the vessel might sink due to the loss
>of buoyancy caused by the methane bubbles in the water.
><https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1350-bubbling-seas-can-sink-ships/>
>Double, bubble, toil and trouble. Fire burn and Baltic bubble.
>

A friend who was aboard a oil drilling ship drilling off Eastern
Indonesia that did exactly that. Had a blow out and the ship started
to sink. The crew loosened the anchor cables and the ship swung
further enough to get out of the "bubble" but he said that the water
was almost coming over the deck before they got out of the way.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:50:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 5:12:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/1/2022 2:43 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 12:43:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> As for radar coverage, the Baltic Sea is surrounded by nine countries:
>> >> Denmark, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Finland
>> >> and Sweden. Tell us which country is doing the radar coverage.
>> >
>> > All of them via the MONALISA 2.0 system:
>> > <https://www.seatrafficmanagement.info/projects/monalisa-2/>
>> > <https://www.seatrafficmanagement.info/projects/stm-balt-safe/>
>> >
>> > Oddly, there doesn't seem to be much marine traffic near the area in
>> > question, around the island of Bornholm. Most of the traffic goes
>> > north of the island:
>> > <https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:14.5/centery:55.3/zoom:8>
>> > Click on any vessel for details.
>> >
>> > Traffic map:
>> > <https://www.vesselfinder.com>
>> > Find the Baltic area and click on "Density Map -> All Types" (icon on
>> > the left edge of the page) to see the traffic lanes.
>> >
>> > Instead of radar, commercial shipping use AIS for vessel tracking:
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system>
>> > In the Baltic, if something appears on the radar that is not also on
>> > the AIS system, the local coast guard will attempt to identify the
>> > vessel. Military vessels will typically announce their location via
>> > AIS, but will sometimes spoof their location:
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_identification_system#Spoofing>
>> >
>> > In the Baltic, vessel traffic is managed by the IMO which requires all
>> > vessels to be AIS equipped:
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Maritime_Organization>
>> > Procedures for collision avoidance and traffic control use Sweden's
>> > STM or MONALISA 2.0 system:
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_traffic_management>
>> > Videos on what it does and how it works:
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vsswV29uuA&list=UU-CJSsJzqB_MwP1Nkl6m4zg&index=1&t=0s>
>> > Submarines can be AIS equipped:
>> > <https://www.scires.com/What-We-Do/Products/AIS>
>> > <https://professionalmariner.com/true-heading-ais-receivers-to-be-used-on-us-submarines/>
>> >
>> > If it floats in the Baltic, it will be identified and tracked.
>> >
>> >
>> Some British sources are hinting at prepositioned explosives
>> with remote detonation.
>>
>> https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-pipelines-attacked-remote-explosives-uk-intelligence-2022-9?op=1
>>
>> But again no evidence so it's all yet conjecture.
>
>Remember that the Black Sea is the main supply route for most of Russia. So that route has ALWAYS bee under dramatically close scrutiny. We have Biden ON video saying that he would destroy the pipeline if Russia invaded the Ukraine and we have Poland's leader saying "Thank you America" after the explosions. Not to mention we have that brainless wonder Francis Krygowski saying that if Tucker Carlson pointed out those very facts they are false, The very fact that Krygowski doesn't think so means that they are 100% real. Krygowski over the years has shown himself to be ALWAYS wrong about everything.

Tom, you don't seem to get it. The Nord Sea pipeline IS NOT in the
Black Sea it is a while continent away in the Baltic Sea.

As for Frank and the truth. Lets talk about Tommy and the truth. I
believe that your current score is 4 "truths" in 17 years.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.

There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
2.1 million federal employees,
4.1 million contract employees,
1.2 million grant employees,
1.3 million active duty military personnel,
and 0.5 million postal service employees.
9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.

To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.

What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
camps?

BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 18:09:28 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>
>There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
>2.1 million federal employees,
>4.1 million contract employees,
>1.2 million grant employees,
>1.3 million active duty military personnel,
>and 0.5 million postal service employees.
>9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.
>
>To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
>fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
>would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
>the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
>sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
>jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>
>What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
>camps?
>
>BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
><https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>

Disregarding employment/unemployment per se, people who are employed
buy things while people who are unemployed don't, or don't to the same
degree. So firing the 8.65 employees, mentioned, will have a huge
effect on the economy as a whole.
Boeing Seattle laid off 50,000 employees in 1970 and 71 which resulted
in a major depression in the area.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 08:31:50 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 18:09:28 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>>
>>There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
>>2.1 million federal employees,
>>4.1 million contract employees,
>>1.2 million grant employees,
>>1.3 million active duty military personnel,
>>and 0.5 million postal service employees.
>>9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.
>>
>>To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
>>fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
>>would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
>>the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
>>sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
>>jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>>
>>What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
>>camps?
>>
>>BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
>><https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>
>
>Disregarding employment/unemployment per se, people who are employed
>buy things while people who are unemployed don't, or don't to the same
>degree. So firing the 8.65 employees, mentioned, will have a huge
>effect on the economy as a whole.
>Boeing Seattle laid off 50,000 employees in 1970 and 71 which resulted
>in a major depression in the area.
>
Should have read 8.65 Million (:-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>

Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
think so.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>
>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>think so.
>
>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html

Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>think so.
>>
>>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html

>Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
>them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
>they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.

Russia didn't blow up their own pipeline.
As always, just follow the money.

"Ukraine, Russia sign 5-year gas transit agreement" (Dec 31, 2019)
<https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2019/12/31/10456279/ukraine-russia-sign-5-year-gas-transit-agreement/>
"Ukraine’s $7 billion Russian gas transit deal at risk amid claims of
political pressure" (June 10, 2020)
<https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-7-billion-russian-gas-transit-deal-at-risk-amid-claims-of-political-pressure/>

That's $7 billion USD over 5 years or about $1.4 billion per year in
transit fees to Ukraine to allow Russia to deliver gas to Europe.
That's a large amount of money going from Russia to Ukraine.

The entire purpose of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines was for Russia
to bypass Ukraine and pocket the transit fees. However, Germany and
the rest of Russia's gas customers suspected that they were going to
pay for both pipelines in increased natural gas costs. So, Germany
started delaying their approval of Nord Stream 2. In order to provide
an incentive for German approval, Russia invaded Ukraine and turned
off the gas supply. Now, Germany was forced to buy gas delivered via
the Russian pipeline instead of the Ukraine pipeline.

That's the way things stood just before someone blew up the Nord
Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Now, Russia has no way to deliver their gas
to Germany and Europe except through much smaller and most expensive
pipelines. I have some numbers from dubious sources, but it seems
that Poland and Belarus see little reason to ignore a favorable
situation and would be quite happy to charge Russia transit fees equal
or greater than what they were paying Ukraine.

Usually, the culprit is whomever stands to profit the most, both in
the long and short run. Russia stands to be the biggest looser, so
they're not a candidate for blowing up their own pipeline. Poland
stands to make the most profit from transit fees. Belarus is
essentially dominated by Putin and generally does what they are told.
However, if Belarus is looking for a time to sever ties with Russia
and go independent, now would be a great time. There's nothing better
than having Russian gas finance their coup or revolution.

There are some other countries that could profit from the situation,
but the amounts involved are small and the politics rather doubtful.
Notice the amounts flowing in the following URL. The other pipelines
neither connect to the Nord Stream pipelines or lack the capacity:

Overview of physical gas flows to Europe
<https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWIxYWYzNzYtMDY3My00NTQ0LThiYzMtOWYwOTZjNTc5Njg1IiwidCI6IjgxMDU4NGZkLTY5ZjktNDEzNy1hNmExLWMwZTMzMjgwYjE1YyIsImMiOjh9>

ENTSOG natural gas network map (2021):
<https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2021-11/ENTSOG_CAP_2021_A0_1189x841_FULL_066_FLAT.pdf>

ENTSOG natural gas system development map"
<https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2022-01/ENTSOG_GIE_SYSDEV_2020-2021.pdf>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>think so.
>>
>>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>
>Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
>them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
>they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.

....and it was Biden and his minions who proclaimed that they were
going to shut it down..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM

On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 18:09:28 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>
>There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
>2.1 million federal employees,
>4.1 million contract employees,
>1.2 million grant employees,
>1.3 million active duty military personnel,
>and 0.5 million postal service employees.
>9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.

Generally referred to as bloat....

>To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
>fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
>would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
>the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
>sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
>jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>
>What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
>camps?
>
>BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
><https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>

Lets keep the military and ramp up all the rest. Eliminate a few dozen
or more useless federal agencies and bureaus.

https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/

As far as the unemployment, the government fools had no problem
shutting down the whole U S economy, so they should have no trouble
handling a few million deep swamp people. I hear some fast foods are
hiring...

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>
>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>think so.
>
>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html

As far as I know, Biden and his minions are the only ones that have
publicly threatened to shut down Nord...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:06:04 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> As far as the unemployment, the government fools had no problem
> shutting down the whole U S economy, so they should have no trouble
> handling a few million deep swamp people. I hear some fast foods are
> hiring...
>
Surely you're not as evil as to wish fast food to be ruined as the government has already ruined everything else.
>
That's not ludicrous speculation at all. Here in Europe we used to get luscious, tasty fruit and veg from all over the world. Then the EU came in, and started "regulating" fruit and veg, and tomatoes, to take only one instance, all became a universal size, superficially beautiful, but not long-lasting at all and very unresistant to all kinds of insect dangers. And universally watery in taste, and with tissue-like texture to the flesh. Yech: that's what the supposedly best and brightest government in the world did. And the way they screwed bananas is just too sickening to describe.
>
Andre Jute
.... and now it is "rightwing" to use inflation against the Donkey Party and Chief Ass Biden!
>

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:42:34 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >
> >Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
> >think so.
> >
> >https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
> As far as I know, Biden and his minions are the only ones that have
> publicly threatened to shut down Nord...
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM
>
So, here's the evidence, Franki-boy: Biden threatened the existence of the pipeline. It's on tape. Will you now apologise to those you called names for mentioning that the Chief Ass threatened Russian property? Or are you still in denial? -- Unsigned out of contempt for a kulak* who doesn't know how a gentleman behaves.
>
* "Kulak": a peasant bully, a pleasingly concise portmanteau word for describing the thuggish peasant Frank Krygowski.
>

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 04:50:38 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:06:04 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> As far as the unemployment, the government fools had no problem
>> shutting down the whole U S economy, so they should have no trouble
>> handling a few million deep swamp people. I hear some fast foods are
>> hiring...
>>
>Surely you're not as evil as to wish fast food to be ruined as the government has already ruined everything else.
>>
>That's not ludicrous speculation at all. Here in Europe we used to get luscious, tasty fruit and veg from all over the world. Then the EU came in, and started "regulating" fruit and veg, and tomatoes, to take only one instance, all became a universal size, superficially beautiful, but not long-lasting at all and very unresistant to all kinds of insect dangers. And universally watery in taste, and with tissue-like texture to the flesh. Yech: that's what the supposedly best and brightest government in the world did. And the way they screwed bananas is just too sickening to describe.
>>
>Andre Jute
>... and now it is "rightwing" to use inflation against the Donkey Party and Chief Ass Biden!
>>

I eat bananas regularly to keep from having muscle cramps. Looked
everywhere for them after the hurricane and could only find some
"organic" bananas. Nasty little skinny underdeveloped things..

On 10/1/2022 8:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>
> There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
> 2.1 million federal employees,
> 4.1 million contract employees,
> 1.2 million grant employees,
> 1.3 million active duty military personnel,
> and 0.5 million postal service employees.
> 9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.
>
> To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
> fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
> would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
> the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
> sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
> jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>
> What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
> camps?
>
> BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
> <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>
>

I smiled, recalling the great and pithy Clare Booth Luce, "I
would close HEW tomorrow but they have so many employees
that they themselves would become a social problem."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/1/2022 10:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>> think so.
>>>
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>
>> Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>> pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
>> them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
>> they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
>
> Russia didn't blow up their own pipeline.
> As always, just follow the money.
>
> "Ukraine, Russia sign 5-year gas transit agreement" (Dec 31, 2019)
> <https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2019/12/31/10456279/ukraine-russia-sign-5-year-gas-transit-agreement/>
> "Ukraine’s $7 billion Russian gas transit deal at risk amid claims of
> political pressure" (June 10, 2020)
> <https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-7-billion-russian-gas-transit-deal-at-risk-amid-claims-of-political-pressure/>
>
> That's $7 billion USD over 5 years or about $1.4 billion per year in
> transit fees to Ukraine to allow Russia to deliver gas to Europe.
> That's a large amount of money going from Russia to Ukraine.
>
> The entire purpose of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines was for Russia
> to bypass Ukraine and pocket the transit fees. However, Germany and
> the rest of Russia's gas customers suspected that they were going to
> pay for both pipelines in increased natural gas costs. So, Germany
> started delaying their approval of Nord Stream 2. In order to provide
> an incentive for German approval, Russia invaded Ukraine and turned
> off the gas supply. Now, Germany was forced to buy gas delivered via
> the Russian pipeline instead of the Ukraine pipeline.
>
> That's the way things stood just before someone blew up the Nord
> Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Now, Russia has no way to deliver their gas
> to Germany and Europe except through much smaller and most expensive
> pipelines. I have some numbers from dubious sources, but it seems
> that Poland and Belarus see little reason to ignore a favorable
> situation and would be quite happy to charge Russia transit fees equal
> or greater than what they were paying Ukraine.
>
> Usually, the culprit is whomever stands to profit the most, both in
> the long and short run. Russia stands to be the biggest looser, so
> they're not a candidate for blowing up their own pipeline. Poland
> stands to make the most profit from transit fees. Belarus is
> essentially dominated by Putin and generally does what they are told.
> However, if Belarus is looking for a time to sever ties with Russia
> and go independent, now would be a great time. There's nothing better
> than having Russian gas finance their coup or revolution.
>
> There are some other countries that could profit from the situation,
> but the amounts involved are small and the politics rather doubtful.
> Notice the amounts flowing in the following URL. The other pipelines
> neither connect to the Nord Stream pipelines or lack the capacity:
>
> Overview of physical gas flows to Europe
> <https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWIxYWYzNzYtMDY3My00NTQ0LThiYzMtOWYwOTZjNTc5Njg1IiwidCI6IjgxMDU4NGZkLTY5ZjktNDEzNy1hNmExLWMwZTMzMjgwYjE1YyIsImMiOjh9>
>
> ENTSOG natural gas network map (2021):
> <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2021-11/ENTSOG_CAP_2021_A0_1189x841_FULL_066_FLAT.pdf>
>
> ENTSOG natural gas system development map"
> <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2022-01/ENTSOG_GIE_SYSDEV_2020-2021.pdf>
>
>
>

I don't know.

Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that
Germany had sanctioned export of turbine pumps. I don't know
if any of that is true either.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 1:27:34 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
> >>think so.
> >>
> >>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
> >
> >Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
> >pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
> >them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
> >they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
> ...and it was Biden and his minions who proclaimed that they were
> going to shut it down..
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM

But you have to remember that according to Francis, Biden didn't say that because Tucker Carlson reminded people that he had said it. This is what that absolutely political scum of the earth is - people that will deny absolute proof because of who says it. We now have absolute proof that nothing that Krygowski says even makes an effort to be true.

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 4:50:40 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:06:04 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >
> > As far as the unemployment, the government fools had no problem
> > shutting down the whole U S economy, so they should have no trouble
> > handling a few million deep swamp people. I hear some fast foods are
> > hiring...
> >
> Surely you're not as evil as to wish fast food to be ruined as the government has already ruined everything else.
> >
> That's not ludicrous speculation at all. Here in Europe we used to get luscious, tasty fruit and veg from all over the world. Then the EU came in, and started "regulating" fruit and veg, and tomatoes, to take only one instance, all became a universal size, superficially beautiful, but not long-lasting at all and very unresistant to all kinds of insect dangers. And universally watery in taste, and with tissue-like texture to the flesh. Yech: that's what the supposedly best and brightest government in the world did. And the way they screwed bananas is just too sickening to describe.
> >
> Andre Jute
> ... and now it is "rightwing" to use inflation against the Donkey Party and Chief Ass Biden!

Ye3t if you grow tomatoes in your back yard and pick them when they are ripe, they taste as you remember them. But they have to be picked and consumed when they are ready and not before as is done commercially.