On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 7:41:18 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/1/2022 10:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>> On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
> >>> think so.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
> >
> >> Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
> >> pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
> >> them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
> >> they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
> >
> > Russia didn't blow up their own pipeline.
> > As always, just follow the money.
> >
> > "Ukraine, Russia sign 5-year gas transit agreement" (Dec 31, 2019)
> > <https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2019/12/31/10456279/ukraine-russia-sign-5-year-gas-transit-agreement/>
> > "Ukraine’s $7 billion Russian gas transit deal at risk amid claims of
> > political pressure" (June 10, 2020)
> > <https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-7-billion-russian-gas-transit-deal-at-risk-amid-claims-of-political-pressure/>
> >
> > That's $7 billion USD over 5 years or about $1.4 billion per year in
> > transit fees to Ukraine to allow Russia to deliver gas to Europe.
> > That's a large amount of money going from Russia to Ukraine.
> >
> > The entire purpose of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines was for Russia
> > to bypass Ukraine and pocket the transit fees. However, Germany and
> > the rest of Russia's gas customers suspected that they were going to
> > pay for both pipelines in increased natural gas costs. So, Germany
> > started delaying their approval of Nord Stream 2. In order to provide
> > an incentive for German approval, Russia invaded Ukraine and turned
> > off the gas supply. Now, Germany was forced to buy gas delivered via
> > the Russian pipeline instead of the Ukraine pipeline.
> >
> > That's the way things stood just before someone blew up the Nord
> > Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Now, Russia has no way to deliver their gas
> > to Germany and Europe except through much smaller and most expensive
> > pipelines. I have some numbers from dubious sources, but it seems
> > that Poland and Belarus see little reason to ignore a favorable
> > situation and would be quite happy to charge Russia transit fees equal
> > or greater than what they were paying Ukraine.
> >
> > Usually, the culprit is whomever stands to profit the most, both in
> > the long and short run. Russia stands to be the biggest looser, so
> > they're not a candidate for blowing up their own pipeline. Poland
> > stands to make the most profit from transit fees. Belarus is
> > essentially dominated by Putin and generally does what they are told.
> > However, if Belarus is looking for a time to sever ties with Russia
> > and go independent, now would be a great time. There's nothing better
> > than having Russian gas finance their coup or revolution.
> >
> > There are some other countries that could profit from the situation,
> > but the amounts involved are small and the politics rather doubtful.
> > Notice the amounts flowing in the following URL. The other pipelines
> > neither connect to the Nord Stream pipelines or lack the capacity:
> >
> > Overview of physical gas flows to Europe
> > <https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWIxYWYzNzYtMDY3My00NTQ0LThiYzMtOWYwOTZjNTc5Njg1IiwidCI6IjgxMDU4NGZkLTY5ZjktNDEzNy1hNmExLWMwZTMzMjgwYjE1YyIsImMiOjh9>
> >
> > ENTSOG natural gas network map (2021):
> > <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2021-11/ENTSOG_CAP_2021_A0_1189x841_FULL_066_FLAT.pdf>
> >
> > ENTSOG natural gas system development map"
> > <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2022-01/ENTSOG_GIE_SYSDEV_2020-2021.pdf>
> >
> >
> >
> I don't know.
>
> Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
> Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that
> Germany had sanctioned export of turbine pumps. I don't know
> if any of that is true either.

But Liebe4rmann is an expert on all of this because in between repairing printers, he supervised the construction of the Nord-Stream Pipeline. In other words a fucking moron with access to Google believes himself and expert. What a sick minded ass.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:36:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/1/2022 8:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>>
>> There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
>> 2.1 million federal employees,
>> 4.1 million contract employees,
>> 1.2 million grant employees,
>> 1.3 million active duty military personnel,
>> and 0.5 million postal service employees.
>> 9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.
>>
>> To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
>> fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
>> would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
>> the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
>> sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
>> jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>>
>> What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
>> camps?
>>
>> BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
>> <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>

>I smiled, recalling the great and pithy Clare Booth Luce, "I
>would close HEW tomorrow but they have so many employees
>that they themselves would become a social problem."

Yep. That's always the problems with agencies that are temporarily
thrown together in order to solve an immediate problem. After the
problem is somewhat reduces, all the agencies do after that is grow.
If they get large enough, they can become a voting block. If Tucker
Carlson decides to fire 8.65 million federal employees, he just
eliminated 8.65 million votes needed to keep him in office. People
tend to vote for candidates that defend their jobs, and firing them is
not a good way to do that.

The federal employees are also responsible for managing and spending
the federal budget, currently at over $6 trillion dollars. That means
nobody gets their Social Security, Medicare, federal aid to states,
federal grants, etc payments because there's nobody around to write
the checks. I'm fairly certain that the recipients would not be
particularly thrilled and will probably vote accordingly. I'm
currently a "recipient" and living on a mix of savings, fixed income,
Social Security, Medicare, and odd jobs. I'm not thrilled and will
probably vote accordingly.

Then, there are the entitlements. Those are federal expenditures that
are written into law and cannot be changed by executive decision.
<https://federalsafetynet.com/entitlement-programs/entitlement-spending/>
<https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/entitlement_spending>
Is Tucker going to break the law and refuse to spend the money that
congress authorized? Nixon tried that in 1973 and failed.
<https://budget.house.gov/publications/report/impoundment-control-act-1974-what-it-why-does-it-matter>
Is Tucker prepared to fight a constitutional crisis?

So, back to my question. What is Tucker going to do about all the
resulting unemployment? Anyone have a plan?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

with <9jvhjh52v0l0rt1ca7sgp7ti6e8uqqrhrv@4ax.com> John B wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

>>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>think so.
>> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/
>> tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>
> Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
> pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe.

Wrong. NS2 won't be certified to operate ever, subsequently operator
went for bankruptcy (and now pipeline itself is no more). Last time
original NS was operational was Aug31 this year, then it was shut donw
indefinetely (just because) (and now pipeline itself is no more).

> Why would Russia sabotage them? If they want to prevent Russian gas
> from reaching Europe all they have to do is close the valves on their
> end of the pipe.

You're (ominously?) ignoring how Gazprom pretends to operate --
long-term contracts. See where it's going?

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:09:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:36:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 10/1/2022 8:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:42:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have to say that I would vote for him under those conditions. I'm not sure that he could get anything done but Trump and DeSantis he wouldn't need to do anything but close the government down to 1/20th its present size.
>>>
>>> There are about 9.1 million federal workers consisting of:
>>> 2.1 million federal employees,
>>> 4.1 million contract employees,
>>> 1.2 million grant employees,
>>> 1.3 million active duty military personnel,
>>> and 0.5 million postal service employees.
>>> 9.1 million is about 6% of the total US employment of 153 million.
>>>
>>> To reduce that to 1/20th it's present size, he would need to layoff or
>>> fire 19/20 * 9.1 million = 8.65 million government workers, which
>>> would more than double current unemployment. Since a large part of
>>> the US economy involves goods and services provided by the private
>>> sector to the federal government, the resulting loss of private sector
>>> jobs would be huge. I can't even guess a number.
>>>
>>> What is Tucker going to do about all the unemployment? Re-education
>>> camps?
>>>
>>> BLS Employment Statistics to Aug 2022:
>>> <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>
>
>>I smiled, recalling the great and pithy Clare Booth Luce, "I
>>would close HEW tomorrow but they have so many employees
>>that they themselves would become a social problem."
>
>Yep. That's always the problems with agencies that are temporarily
>thrown together in order to solve an immediate problem. After the
>problem is somewhat reduces, all the agencies do after that is grow.
>If they get large enough, they can become a voting block. If Tucker
>Carlson decides to fire 8.65 million federal employees, he just
>eliminated 8.65 million votes needed to keep him in office. People
>tend to vote for candidates that defend their jobs, and firing them is
>not a good way to do that.
>
>The federal employees are also responsible for managing and spending
>the federal budget, currently at over $6 trillion dollars. That means
>nobody gets their Social Security, Medicare, federal aid to states,
>federal grants, etc payments because there's nobody around to write
>the checks. I'm fairly certain that the recipients would not be
>particularly thrilled and will probably vote accordingly. I'm
>currently a "recipient" and living on a mix of savings, fixed income,
>Social Security, Medicare, and odd jobs. I'm not thrilled and will
>probably vote accordingly.
>
>Then, there are the entitlements. Those are federal expenditures that
>are written into law and cannot be changed by executive decision.
><https://federalsafetynet.com/entitlement-programs/entitlement-spending/>
><https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/entitlement_spending>
>Is Tucker going to break the law and refuse to spend the money that
>congress authorized? Nixon tried that in 1973 and failed.
><https://budget.house.gov/publications/report/impoundment-control-act-1974-what-it-why-does-it-matter>
>Is Tucker prepared to fight a constitutional crisis?
>
>So, back to my question. What is Tucker going to do about all the
>resulting unemployment? Anyone have a plan?

Nancy says we need more people to pick the crops.

https://nypost.com/2022/09/30/nancy-pelosi-says-florida-needs-migrants-to-pick-crops/

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:41:12 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>I don't know.

Same here, but that doesn't stop me from speculating along with
everyone else.

>Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
>Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that
>Germany had sanctioned export of turbine pumps. I don't know
>if any of that is true either.

Not exactly. Note that the dates on the following articles are not
quite in chronological order.

Russia had resumed pumping on the single remaining compressor:
"Russia pumps Nord Stream gas to Europe again - but it's not enough"
(July 21, 2022)
<https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-1-gas-pipeline-nominations-show-rise-july-21-operator-website-2022-07-21/>

Russia allegedly shut down Nord Stream 1 because they were afraid of
losing their last remaining compressor.
"Nord Stream 1 pipeline to shut for three days in latest fuel blow to
Europe" (Aug 19, 2022)
<https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-nord-stream-1-pipeline-shut-three-days-end-aug-2022-08-19/>
"Ukraine's gas transmission system operator said it and the Polish gas
pipeline system have the capacity to compensate for the Nord Stream
halt, and allow Russian gas to reach Europe."
That seems to be happening today:
"Gazprom says gas exports to Europe via Ukraine steady on Sunday" (Oct
2, 2022)
<https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/gazprom-says-gas-exports-europe-via-ukraine-steady-sunday-2022-10-02/>

Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which was sitting in
a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to transport it to
Russia:
"Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas pipeline
parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
<https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
See the captions under the 2 photos.

Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the non-delivery of
the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons). The problem
boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for German
approval? There are plenty of accusations in the above article, none
of which I can verify or sort out. For what little I know, it could
be anything between a scheduling misunderstanding to a politically or
financially motivate conspiracy.

I'm still waiting for photos of the hole in the pipe, which will
hopefully determine if it was an explosion or implosion.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/2/2022 1:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:41:12 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> I don't know.
>
> Same here, but that doesn't stop me from speculating along with
> everyone else.
>
>> Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
>> Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that
>> Germany had sanctioned export of turbine pumps. I don't know
>> if any of that is true either.
>
> Not exactly. Note that the dates on the following articles are not
> quite in chronological order.
>
> Russia had resumed pumping on the single remaining compressor:
> "Russia pumps Nord Stream gas to Europe again - but it's not enough"
> (July 21, 2022)
> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-1-gas-pipeline-nominations-show-rise-july-21-operator-website-2022-07-21/>
>
> Russia allegedly shut down Nord Stream 1 because they were afraid of
> losing their last remaining compressor.
> "Nord Stream 1 pipeline to shut for three days in latest fuel blow to
> Europe" (Aug 19, 2022)
> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-nord-stream-1-pipeline-shut-three-days-end-aug-2022-08-19/>
> "Ukraine's gas transmission system operator said it and the Polish gas
> pipeline system have the capacity to compensate for the Nord Stream
> halt, and allow Russian gas to reach Europe."
> That seems to be happening today:
> "Gazprom says gas exports to Europe via Ukraine steady on Sunday" (Oct
> 2, 2022)
> <https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/gazprom-says-gas-exports-europe-via-ukraine-steady-sunday-2022-10-02/>
>
> Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which was sitting in
> a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to transport it to
> Russia:
> "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas pipeline
> parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
> See the captions under the 2 photos.
>
> Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the non-delivery of
> the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons). The problem
> boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for German
> approval? There are plenty of accusations in the above article, none
> of which I can verify or sort out. For what little I know, it could
> be anything between a scheduling misunderstanding to a politically or
> financially motivate conspiracy.
>
> I'm still waiting for photos of the hole in the pipe, which will
> hopefully determine if it was an explosion or implosion.
>

Exactly. As is so often the case now, there's more
disinformation (often multiple conflicting stories...) than
actual provable data.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:33:20 AM UTC-7, Eric Pozharski wrote:
> with <9jvhjh52v0l0rt1ca...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
> > On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> >>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
> >>think so.
> >> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/
> >> tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
> >
> > Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
> > pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe.
> Wrong. NS2 won't be certified to operate ever, subsequently operator
> went for bankruptcy (and now pipeline itself is no more). Last time
> original NS was operational was Aug31 this year, then it was shut donw
> indefinetely (just because) (and now pipeline itself is no more).
> > Why would Russia sabotage them? If they want to prevent Russian gas
> > from reaching Europe all they have to do is close the valves on their
> > end of the pipe.
> You're (ominously?) ignoring how Gazprom pretends to operate --
> long-term contracts. See where it's going?
>
> --
> Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
> Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
Wasn't it a little strange that there wasn't a word about Tucker Carlson in the citation of Francis? But then I'm used to his postings having nothing whatsoever to do with the subject he or anyone else is talking about.

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 11:27:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/2/2022 1:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:41:12 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know.
> >
> > Same here, but that doesn't stop me from speculating along with
> > everyone else.
> >
> >> Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
> >> Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that
> >> Germany had sanctioned export of turbine pumps. I don't know
> >> if any of that is true either.
> >
> > Not exactly. Note that the dates on the following articles are not
> > quite in chronological order.
> >
> > Russia had resumed pumping on the single remaining compressor:
> > "Russia pumps Nord Stream gas to Europe again - but it's not enough"
> > (July 21, 2022)
> > <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-1-gas-pipeline-nominations-show-rise-july-21-operator-website-2022-07-21/>
> >
> > Russia allegedly shut down Nord Stream 1 because they were afraid of
> > losing their last remaining compressor.
> > "Nord Stream 1 pipeline to shut for three days in latest fuel blow to
> > Europe" (Aug 19, 2022)
> > <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-nord-stream-1-pipeline-shut-three-days-end-aug-2022-08-19/>
> > "Ukraine's gas transmission system operator said it and the Polish gas
> > pipeline system have the capacity to compensate for the Nord Stream
> > halt, and allow Russian gas to reach Europe."
> > That seems to be happening today:
> > "Gazprom says gas exports to Europe via Ukraine steady on Sunday" (Oct
> > 2, 2022)
> > <https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/gazprom-says-gas-exports-europe-via-ukraine-steady-sunday-2022-10-02/>
> >
> > Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which was sitting in
> > a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to transport it to
> > Russia:
> > "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas pipeline
> > parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
> > <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
> > See the captions under the 2 photos.
> >
> > Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the non-delivery of
> > the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons). The problem
> > boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for German
> > approval? There are plenty of accusations in the above article, none
> > of which I can verify or sort out. For what little I know, it could
> > be anything between a scheduling misunderstanding to a politically or
> > financially motivate conspiracy.
> >
> > I'm still waiting for photos of the hole in the pipe, which will
> > hopefully determine if it was an explosion or implosion.
> >
> Exactly. As is so often the case now, there's more
> disinformation (often multiple conflicting stories...) than
> actual provable data.
How do you make an implosion in a gas pipeline that is reported by the Swedish as 550 US tons of high explosive? There has now been discovered 4 massive leaks meaning that perhaps the high explosive was placed at a junction and the pressure wave ran up the pressurized pipe shattering all of the weak connections. With actual pictures of the leaks what sort of misinformation are you suggesting is occurring?

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 13:32:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>How do you make an implosion in a gas pipeline that is reported by the Swedish as 550 US tons of high explosive?

Implosion: Read my theory in one of my previous postings. You don't
show your sources so I don't see why I should show mine. Go find my
article with Google.

550 Tons? Please stop inventing numbers. The estimates from Denmark
and Sweden were between 2 - 4 explosions, each equivalent to 500 kg
(1,100 lbs) of explosive. The wording of the original press release
was ambiguous as to whether 500 kg was the total or the size of each
explosion. I'll assume it's per explosion. Lots of sources and
echoes found with Google:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=nord+stream+explosive+500kg>

I had a difficult time finding the explosion on earthquake maps but
eventually found only one at:
<https://www.emsc-csem.org/Earthquake/Map/zoom.php?key=96&typ=euro#5>
Magnitude ML 3.1
Region BALTIC SEA
Date time 2022-09-26 17:03:49.0 UTC
Location 55.55 N ; 15.82 E
Depth 0 km
Distances 152 km NNW of Koszalin, Poland / pop: 107,000 /
localtime: 19:03:49.0 2022-09-26
70 km SSE of Karlskrona, Sweden / pop: 36,400 / local time:
19:03:49.0 2022-09-26

Data from:
GeoForschungsZentrum (GFZ) -- Potsdam, Germany (GFZ)
Norwegian Seismic Array -- Kjeller, Norway (NEWS)
No data from Sweden or Denmark.

Details:
<https://www.emsc-csem.org/Earthquake/earthquake.php?id=1173115#scientific>
Only 3.1 ML (local magnitude scale) Richter scale = 673 kg TNT, which
seems close enough to 500 kg.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 1:27:34 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>> >>think so.
>> >>
>> >>https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>> >
>> >Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>> >pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
>> >them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
>> >they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
>> ...and it was Biden and his minions who proclaimed that they were
>> going to shut it down..
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM
>
>But you have to remember that according to Francis, Biden didn't say that because Tucker Carlson reminded people that he had said it. This is what that absolutely political scum of the earth is - people that will deny absolute proof because of who says it. We now have absolute proof that nothing that Krygowski says even makes an effort to be true.

Err Tommy, what "absolute proof because he said it" are you talking
about?

And as for "people that will deny absolute proof"? Well aren't you the
outstanding proof of that?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/2/2022 4:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 10:33:20 AM UTC-7, Eric Pozharski wrote:
>> with <9jvhjh52v0l0rt1ca...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>>> Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>>> think so.
>>>> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/
>>>> tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>>>
>>> Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>>> pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe.
>> Wrong. NS2 won't be certified to operate ever, subsequently operator
>> went for bankruptcy (and now pipeline itself is no more). Last time
>> original NS was operational was Aug31 this year, then it was shut donw
>> indefinetely (just because) (and now pipeline itself is no more).
>>> Why would Russia sabotage them? If they want to prevent Russian gas
>>> from reaching Europe all they have to do is close the valves on their
>>> end of the pipe.
>> You're (ominously?) ignoring how Gazprom pretends to operate --
>> long-term contracts. See where it's going?
>>
>> --
>> Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
>> Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
> Wasn't it a little strange that there wasn't a word about Tucker Carlson in the citation of Francis?

:-) You really couldn't make this work, Tom? Wow!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html

Poor Tom! This internet thing is SO confusing to him! :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:41:12 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/1/2022 10:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:01:55 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 22:19:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 10/1/2022 12:18 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Tom's hero looks more and more like Putin's lapdog. Even his colleages
>>>> think so.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-insists-putin-not-011700460.html
>>
>>> Something that is puzzling, at least to me. Both the Nord Stream
>>> pipelines carry gas from Russia to Europe. Why would Russia sabotage
>>> them? If they want to prevent Russian gas from reaching Europe all
>>> they have to do is close the valves on their end of the pipe.
>>
>> Russia didn't blow up their own pipeline.
>> As always, just follow the money.
>>
>> "Ukraine, Russia sign 5-year gas transit agreement" (Dec 31, 2019)
>> <https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2019/12/31/10456279/ukraine-russia-sign-5-year-gas-transit-agreement/>
>> "Ukraine’s $7 billion Russian gas transit deal at risk amid claims of
>> political pressure" (June 10, 2020)
>> <https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-7-billion-russian-gas-transit-deal-at-risk-amid-claims-of-political-pressure/>
>>
>> That's $7 billion USD over 5 years or about $1.4 billion per year in
>> transit fees to Ukraine to allow Russia to deliver gas to Europe.
>> That's a large amount of money going from Russia to Ukraine.
>>
>> The entire purpose of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines was for Russia
>> to bypass Ukraine and pocket the transit fees. However, Germany and
>> the rest of Russia's gas customers suspected that they were going to
>> pay for both pipelines in increased natural gas costs. So, Germany
>> started delaying their approval of Nord Stream 2. In order to provide
>> an incentive for German approval, Russia invaded Ukraine and turned
>> off the gas supply. Now, Germany was forced to buy gas delivered via
>> the Russian pipeline instead of the Ukraine pipeline.
>>
>> That's the way things stood just before someone blew up the Nord
>> Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Now, Russia has no way to deliver their gas
>> to Germany and Europe except through much smaller and most expensive
>> pipelines. I have some numbers from dubious sources, but it seems
>> that Poland and Belarus see little reason to ignore a favorable
>> situation and would be quite happy to charge Russia transit fees equal
>> or greater than what they were paying Ukraine.
>>
>> Usually, the culprit is whomever stands to profit the most, both in
>> the long and short run. Russia stands to be the biggest looser, so
>> they're not a candidate for blowing up their own pipeline. Poland
>> stands to make the most profit from transit fees. Belarus is
>> essentially dominated by Putin and generally does what they are told.
>> However, if Belarus is looking for a time to sever ties with Russia
>> and go independent, now would be a great time. There's nothing better
>> than having Russian gas finance their coup or revolution.
>>
>> There are some other countries that could profit from the situation,
>> but the amounts involved are small and the politics rather doubtful.
>> Notice the amounts flowing in the following URL. The other pipelines
>> neither connect to the Nord Stream pipelines or lack the capacity:
>>
>> Overview of physical gas flows to Europe
>> <https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWIxYWYzNzYtMDY3My00NTQ0LThiYzMtOWYwOTZjNTc5Njg1IiwidCI6IjgxMDU4NGZkLTY5ZjktNDEzNy1hNmExLWMwZTMzMjgwYjE1YyIsImMiOjh9>
>>
>> ENTSOG natural gas network map (2021):
>> <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2021-11/ENTSOG_CAP_2021_A0_1189x841_FULL_066_FLAT.pdf>
>>
>> ENTSOG natural gas system development map"
>> <https://www.entsog.eu/sites/default/files/2022-01/ENTSOG_GIE_SYSDEV_2020-2021.pdf>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I don't know.
>
>Just before the explosions, Russia had declined to restart
>Nordstream I after 'maintenance shutdown' claiming that

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-gazprom-sanctions-make-delivery-nord-stream-turbine-impossible-2022-08-03/
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-1-gas-pipeline-nominations-show-rise-july-21-operator-website-2022-07-21/
Probably more then you want to know about the turbines (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 9/30/2022 8:22 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 9/29/2022 10:21 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 22:52:31 -0400, Radey Shouman
>>>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:27:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/29/2022 1:01 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/2022 10:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/2022 9:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 2:05:57 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2022/09/27/the-world-wants-no-part-of-woke-but-its-glad-we-do-n2613688
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It wasn't "Americans" who screwed the United States with "woke"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideology, Mr Hanson. It was the Democrat Party pandering to its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> insane left wing, and its intimidated so-called "centre" or, even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more risibly, "moderates" doing absolutely nothing about it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear of being cancelled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are too many Americans to be lumped together. The good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people need to identify the America-haters and put them down with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> utmost brutality as an existential threat, for reasons Victor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Davis Hanson has pithily summarised in a very short article.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Credit where it is due, and specific blame where compromise is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Slime Stream Media is crying Climate Change but blaming Putin
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the destruction of the Russian-European natural gas
>>>>>>>>>>>> pipeline. Methane is one of the most powerful greenhouse gases and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden stated that IF Russia invaded the Ukraine he would blow the
>>>>>>>>>>>> pipeline up. And you certainly can't blame Russia - a country
>>>>>>>>>>>> teetering on Bankruptcy for destroying a major source of hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> income.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So again the left is exposed for their utter hypocrisy. They
>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't care less about climate change - that is for the little
>>>>>>>>>>>> man that they convinced it was real. Well, Methane (natural gas)
>>>>>>>>>>>> is real and the destruction of that pipeline was a greater blow to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the environment than the 1960's to 980's car culture.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The pipeline attack is like an Agatha Christie piece- way
>>>>>>>>>>> too many actors with both means and motivation.
>>>>>>>>>> There were THREE very large underwater explosions. There are not a
>>>>>>>>>> lot of people that can accomplish that without leaving traces all
>>>>>>>>>> over the place. Andre points out to what occurs to losers in the
>>>>>>>>>> Russian political atmosphere. Putin used to be the head of the KGB
>>>>>>>>>> so he is well aware of what can and might be done. Especially now
>>>>>>>>>> that his attack on the Ukraine has turned into losing the cream of
>>>>>>>>>> his military might. Does anyone with a shred of intelligence believe
>>>>>>>>>> that supplying nothing more than cannon fodder is going to change
>>>>>>>>>> things?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, the only one with a motive and the capability was Biden and he
>>>>>>>>>> told the entire world in a press conference that he intended to do
>>>>>>>>>> just that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not a technically daunting problem. No need for submarines or UDT
>>>>>>>>> or SBS commandos. As noted in a British paper yesterday the routes are
>>>>>>>>> well publicized. One need only pass a 'fishing' trawler across the
>>>>>>>>> path, drop a timed explosive and keep moving. 'Timed explosive' can be
>>>>>>>>> an hour or a day or a week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very near, or inside, the Danish or Swedish economic zones? I'll bet
>>>>>>>> fishing trawlers are pretty well surveiled. On the other hand I'm not
>>>>>>>> sure I would bet on dropping an explosive (estimated 500 Kg TNT
>>>>>>>> equivalent) accurately enough through 90 meters of seawater, that sounds
>>>>>>>> like a bit of a challenge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know. My search yesterday was fruitless and I don't
>>>>>>> know anyone with relevant military experience so you may be
>>>>>>> right. Or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> During WW II the Royal Navy's 450 lb (200 kg) Mark VII depth charge.
>>>>>> Note, this was the total weight of the device which contained 290 lb
>>>>>> (130 kg) TNT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for effectiveness, the following from the Wikki
>>>>>> The killing radius of a depth charge depends on the depth of
>>>>>> detonation, the payload of the depth charge and the size and strength
>>>>>> of the submarine hull. A depth charge of approximately 220 lb (100 kg)
>>>>>> of TNT (400 MJ) would normally have a killing radius (resulting in a
>>>>>> hull breach) of only 9.8–13.1 ft (3–4 m) against a conventional
>>>>>> 1000-ton submarine, while the disablement radius (where the submarine
>>>>>> is not sunk but is put out of commission) would be approximately 26–33
>>>>>> ft (8–10 m). A larger payload increases the radius only slightly
>>>>>> because the effect of an underwater explosion decreases as the cube of
>>>>>> the distance to the target.
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge#Effectiveness
>>>>>
>>>>> Those radii seem pretty small to me. I can easily imagine a depth
>>>>> charge drifting horizontally more than 10 feet, due to current and so
>>>>> forth. I'll bet the pipeline was quite a bit tougher than a WW II sub,
>>>>
>>>> The Royal Navy Type D depth charge was designated the "Mark VII" in
>>>> 1939.Initial sinking speed was 7 ft/s (2.1 m/s) with a terminal
>>>> velocity of 9.9 ft/s (3.0 m/s) at a depth of 250 ft (76 m) Cast iron
>>>> weights of 150 lb (68 kg) were attached to the Mark VII at the end of
>>>> 1940 to increase sinking velocity to 16.8 ft/s (5.1 m/s) The Mark
>>>> VII's 290 lb (130 kg) amatol charge was estimated to be capable of
>>>> splitting a 7/8 in (22 mm) submarine pressure hull at a distance of 20
>>>> ft (6.1 m).
>>>>
>>>> The Nord Stream pipeline is said to be at 80 - 110 meters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The pipelines aren't moving, the positions are known and so descent
>>> rate is immaterial. Despite various impedimenta someone did
>>> successfully breach them.
>>
>> The water is always moving. Faster descent means less deflection by
>> current. Think of windage for bullets in air.
>>
>
> Good point.
> I assume someone skilled and motivated would allow for that right?

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 2:34:32 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
> > On 9/30/2022 8:22 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 9/29/2022 10:21 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 22:52:31 -0400, Radey Shouman
> >>>> <sho...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:27:10 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 9/29/2022 1:01 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 9/28/2022 10:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/2022 9:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 2:05:57 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2022/09/27/the-world-wants-no-part-of-woke-but-its-glad-we-do-n2613688
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It wasn't "Americans" who screwed the United States with "woke"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ideology, Mr Hanson. It was the Democrat Party pandering to its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> insane left wing, and its intimidated so-called "centre" or, even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> more risibly, "moderates" doing absolutely nothing about it for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fear of being cancelled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are too many Americans to be lumped together. The good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> people need to identify the America-haters and put them down with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> utmost brutality as an existential threat, for reasons Victor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Davis Hanson has pithily summarised in a very short article..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Credit where it is due, and specific blame where compromise is no
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer possible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Slime Stream Media is crying Climate Change but blaming Putin
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for the destruction of the Russian-European natural gas
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pipeline. Methane is one of the most powerful greenhouse gases and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Biden stated that IF Russia invaded the Ukraine he would blow the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pipeline up. And you certainly can't blame Russia - a country
> >>>>>>>>>>>> teetering on Bankruptcy for destroying a major source of hard
> >>>>>>>>>>>> income.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So again the left is exposed for their utter hypocrisy. They
> >>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't care less about climate change - that is for the little
> >>>>>>>>>>>> man that they convinced it was real. Well, Methane (natural gas)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is real and the destruction of that pipeline was a greater blow to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the environment than the 1960's to 980's car culture.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The pipeline attack is like an Agatha Christie piece- way
> >>>>>>>>>>> too many actors with both means and motivation.
> >>>>>>>>>> There were THREE very large underwater explosions. There are not a
> >>>>>>>>>> lot of people that can accomplish that without leaving traces all
> >>>>>>>>>> over the place. Andre points out to what occurs to losers in the
> >>>>>>>>>> Russian political atmosphere. Putin used to be the head of the KGB
> >>>>>>>>>> so he is well aware of what can and might be done. Especially now
> >>>>>>>>>> that his attack on the Ukraine has turned into losing the cream of
> >>>>>>>>>> his military might. Does anyone with a shred of intelligence believe
> >>>>>>>>>> that supplying nothing more than cannon fodder is going to change
> >>>>>>>>>> things?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No, the only one with a motive and the capability was Biden and he
> >>>>>>>>>> told the entire world in a press conference that he intended to do
> >>>>>>>>>> just that.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It's not a technically daunting problem. No need for submarines or UDT
> >>>>>>>>> or SBS commandos. As noted in a British paper yesterday the routes are
> >>>>>>>>> well publicized. One need only pass a 'fishing' trawler across the
> >>>>>>>>> path, drop a timed explosive and keep moving. 'Timed explosive' can be
> >>>>>>>>> an hour or a day or a week.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Very near, or inside, the Danish or Swedish economic zones? I'll bet
> >>>>>>>> fishing trawlers are pretty well surveiled. On the other hand I'm not
> >>>>>>>> sure I would bet on dropping an explosive (estimated 500 Kg TNT
> >>>>>>>> equivalent) accurately enough through 90 meters of seawater, that sounds
> >>>>>>>> like a bit of a challenge.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't know. My search yesterday was fruitless and I don't
> >>>>>>> know anyone with relevant military experience so you may be
> >>>>>>> right. Or not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> During WW II the Royal Navy's 450 lb (200 kg) Mark VII depth charge.
> >>>>>> Note, this was the total weight of the device which contained 290 lb
> >>>>>> (130 kg) TNT
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for effectiveness, the following from the Wikki
> >>>>>> The killing radius of a depth charge depends on the depth of
> >>>>>> detonation, the payload of the depth charge and the size and strength
> >>>>>> of the submarine hull. A depth charge of approximately 220 lb (100 kg)
> >>>>>> of TNT (400 MJ) would normally have a killing radius (resulting in a
> >>>>>> hull breach) of only 9.8–13.1 ft (3–4 m) against a conventional
> >>>>>> 1000-ton submarine, while the disablement radius (where the submarine
> >>>>>> is not sunk but is put out of commission) would be approximately 26–33
> >>>>>> ft (8–10 m). A larger payload increases the radius only slightly
> >>>>>> because the effect of an underwater explosion decreases as the cube of
> >>>>>> the distance to the target.
> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge#Effectiveness
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Those radii seem pretty small to me. I can easily imagine a depth
> >>>>> charge drifting horizontally more than 10 feet, due to current and so
> >>>>> forth. I'll bet the pipeline was quite a bit tougher than a WW II sub,
> >>>>
> >>>> The Royal Navy Type D depth charge was designated the "Mark VII" in
> >>>> 1939.Initial sinking speed was 7 ft/s (2.1 m/s) with a terminal
> >>>> velocity of 9.9 ft/s (3.0 m/s) at a depth of 250 ft (76 m) Cast iron
> >>>> weights of 150 lb (68 kg) were attached to the Mark VII at the end of
> >>>> 1940 to increase sinking velocity to 16.8 ft/s (5.1 m/s) The Mark
> >>>> VII's 290 lb (130 kg) amatol charge was estimated to be capable of
> >>>> splitting a 7/8 in (22 mm) submarine pressure hull at a distance of 20
> >>>> ft (6.1 m).
> >>>>
> >>>> The Nord Stream pipeline is said to be at 80 - 110 meters.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The pipelines aren't moving, the positions are known and so descent
> >>> rate is immaterial. Despite various impedimenta someone did
> >>> successfully breach them.
> >>
> >> The water is always moving. Faster descent means less deflection by
> >> current. Think of windage for bullets in air.
> >>
> >
> > Good point.
> > I assume someone skilled and motivated would allow for that right?
>
> It might be pretty hard. Currents can vary a lot with depth, and with
> time and tide. It's a higher dimensional problem than shooting in air,
> where the wind is generally more or less horizontal. Just holding your
> boat on station to within a few feet is not easy, or even possible with
> normal hardware. You would want some kind of fancy thrusters.
>
> Assuming it really was sabotage my guess would be some kind of
> underwater vehicle, perhaps manned, perhaps not.

Am 02.10.2022 um 20:01 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:

> Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which was sitting in
> a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to transport it to
> Russia:
> "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas pipeline
> parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
> See the captions under the 2 photos.
>
> Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the non-delivery of
> the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons). The problem
> boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for German
> approval?

Clarification: the turbines are awaiting a German transport/export
license to Russia. The owner of the turbines must apply for this
licence to be issued but Gazprom has refused to apply for issuing this
license. Without an application, Germany cannot issue a license so the
Russian claim of a missing export license is technically correct but
we're waiting for an application that can be approved.

Furthermore, August is a long time ago: Gazprom has since reduced its
export volume from 20% to 0, claiming that the last pump was not
functional while the owner of the pump (some Siemens subsidiary) claims
the pump is in perfect working order.

Rolf

On 10/4/2022 9:24 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 02.10.2022 um 20:01 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
>
>> Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which
>> was sitting in
>> a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to
>> transport it to
>> Russia:
>> "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas
>> pipeline
>> parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
>>
>> See the captions under the 2 photos.
>>
>> Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the
>> non-delivery of
>> the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons).
>> The problem
>> boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for
>> German
>> approval?
>
> Clarification: the turbines are awaiting a German
> transport/export license to Russia. The owner of the
> turbines must apply for this licence to be issued but
> Gazprom has refused to apply for issuing this license.
> Without an application, Germany cannot issue a license so
> the Russian claim of a missing export license is technically
> correct but we're waiting for an application that can be
> approved.
>
> Furthermore, August is a long time ago: Gazprom has since
> reduced its export volume from 20% to 0, claiming that the
> last pump was not functional while the owner of the pump
> (some Siemens subsidiary) claims the pump is in perfect
> working order.
>
> Rolf
>

Again, who knows?

With the former Chancellor of All The Germans Schroder at
Gazprom, information and disinformatin may overlap. Too many
players with too many motives for any simple explanation.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/4/2022 10:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/4/2022 9:24 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 02.10.2022 um 20:01 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
>>
>>> Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which
>>> was sitting in
>>> a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to
>>> transport it to
>>> Russia:
>>> "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas
>>> pipeline
>>> parts"  (Aug 24, 2022)
>>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
>>>
>>> See the captions under the 2 photos.
>>>
>>> Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the
>>> non-delivery of
>>> the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons).
>>> The problem
>>> boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for
>>> German
>>> approval?
>>
>> Clarification: the turbines are awaiting a German
>> transport/export license to Russia.  The owner of the
>> turbines must apply for this licence to be issued but
>> Gazprom has refused to apply for issuing this license.
>> Without an application, Germany cannot issue a license so
>> the Russian claim of a missing export license is technically
>> correct but we're waiting for an application that can be
>> approved.
>>
>> Furthermore, August is a long time ago: Gazprom has since
>> reduced its export volume from 20% to 0, claiming that the
>> last pump was not functional while the owner of the pump
>> (some Siemens subsidiary) claims the pump is in perfect
>> working order.
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>
> Again, who knows?
>
> With the former Chancellor of All The Germans Schroder at Gazprom,
> information and disinformatin may overlap. Too many players with too
> many motives for any simple explanation.

Whaddya mean "who knows"?? Just ask Tucker Carlson! Or Tom!

[OK, sarcasm off.]

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 16:24:14 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:

>Am 02.10.2022 um 20:01 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
>
>> Russia needed the turbine pumps for Nord Stream 1 which was sitting in
>> a factory in Germany awaiting government approval to transport it to
>> Russia:
>> "Explainer: Nord Stream turbine tension puts focus on gas pipeline
>> parts" (Aug 24, 2022)
>> <https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-tension-puts-focus-gas-pipeline-parts-2022-08-24/>
>> See the captions under the 2 photos.
>>
>> Of course, everyone is blaming everyone else for the non-delivery of
>> the turbines (which incidentally weigh 20 metric tons). The problem
>> boils down to why are the pumps sitting around waiting for German
>> approval?
>
>Clarification: the turbines are awaiting a German transport/export
>license to Russia. The owner of the turbines must apply for this
>licence to be issued but Gazprom has refused to apply for issuing this
>license. Without an application, Germany cannot issue a license so the
>Russian claim of a missing export license is technically correct but
>we're waiting for an application that can be approved.

Thanks for the info. It's my understanding that the already installed
turbines have been failing sequentially since about Jan 2022. Russia
issued some kind of cryptic complaint indicating that there was a
quality problem. Ignoring the possibility of sabotage, that might
explain why Russia is hesitant to accept delivery of what might be yet
another defective turbine. Russia blames the manufacturer, Siemens.

Note the graph at:
<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/03/business/germany-russia-gazprom-pipeline.html>
Notice the slight loss in output starting Jan 2022.
<https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/f315y/1/>
The drop in output was slight, but might be indicative of turbine
problems.

>Furthermore, August is a long time ago: Gazprom has since reduced its
>export volume from 20% to 0, claiming that the last pump was not
>functional while the owner of the pump (some Siemens subsidiary) claims
>the pump is in perfect working order.

Yep. Note that Gazprom ordered 20 pumps and took delivery on 10(?).
Each pipeline is actually two pipes, each with it's own pump.
Therefore, Nord Steam 1 uses 4 turbines, one for each pipe, and two at
each end of the pipeline. Sorry for the poor source, but I'm busy
today and will likely be gone tomorrow:

<https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/nord-stream-2-pipeline-project-russia-germany/>
"The Nord Stream 2 pipeline runs parallel to the existing Nord Stream
pipeline. It consists of two strings with a capacity of 27.5bcm each."

I guess(tm) that the term is "two strings" and I assume Nord Stream 1
is (or was) similar.

>Rolf
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 10:54:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Yep. Note that Gazprom ordered 20 pumps and took delivery on 10(?).
>Each pipeline is actually two pipes, each with it's own pump.
>Therefore, Nord Steam 1 uses 4 turbines, one for each pipe, and two at
>each end of the pipeline. Sorry for the poor source, but I'm busy
>today and will likely be gone tomorrow:
>
><https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/nord-stream-2-pipeline-project-russia-germany/>
>"The Nord Stream 2 pipeline runs parallel to the existing Nord Stream
>pipeline. It consists of two strings with a capacity of 27.5bcm each."

Oops. I forgot to check Wikipedia. See:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream>
"Each pipeline comprises two pipes, denoted A and B, each of the four
pipes being approximately 1,200 kilometres (750 mi) long and with
approximate diameters of 1,220 millimetres (48 in). Total combined
capacity of the four pipes is 110 million cubic metres per annum (3.9
billion cubic feet per annum) of natural gas."

I assume that 4 pipes includes both Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558