On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/5/2022 6:36 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 07:34:18 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 02:52:11 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
>>> <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:34:54 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/4/2022 11:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:10:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:57:47 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:.
>>>>>>>>>>> The conditions in the forest were excellent, almost no 'Schmutz' on by cross bike. Weather was typical, gloomy and around freezing. Dry though. We can't expect more this time of the year.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>> Fun fact my Di2 battery died on me after 10km and 40+km to go for the first time I am using Di2. I must got sloppy. Fortunately I was in a decent gear and could finish the ride with no problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>> For 2023 Shimano will only offer Dura Ace in Di2. I don't think that they will be very successful with that strategy and can expect a change back in 2025. I suspect that most people are like me and don't like having to plug their bikes in to go for a ride.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most people that will buy 2023 12sp Dura Ace won’t have a problem with Di2, most of those people will demand Di2. Di2 is here to stay get used to it. Shimano 105 is already Di2 next year. Plug their bikes in to go for a ride? I charged that battery at the end of last season, februari 2022 when I overhauled that bike. It sat in my garage during the summer and I rode it for a month this season. I should have checked the battery: press shifter button and see if the led is green, green flashing, red flashing or red. In my case it was red. FD didn’t shift anymore, RD did still shift but I did put it in a comfortable gear and left it there.
>>>>>>> I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic shifting.
>>>>>>> I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
>>>>>>> it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
>>>>>>> to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise. My riding buddies asked ‘and now?’ Nothing, carry on.
>>>>> If a shift cable breaks on the right side, you fall into the largest gear. What you can do it use the limit screw to get a little below that but not a whole lot. And I've never broken a shift cable except when I was installing them and overtightened the lock.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still have the opinion that selling only Di2 will doom the Dura Ace group in rather short order. I've had Di2 on a half dozen bikes but I could never get used to plugging my bike in. Also of note - disk brakes are also getting more and more kick-back and the groups that were talking about having disk brakes only are still selling rim brakes. And more and more pros are complaining about disks saying just what I did - they are too sudden and violent
>>>>
>>>> You are entitled to your opinion but it will prove to be the wrong one. DA 2023 12 speed are selling like hot cakes and are out of stock since the introduction. People who are willing to spend 4000 plus euro are not going to mess with cables or adjustments. Most people even choose the option that includes the power meter. More and more pro's are complaining about disks? What pro's? You seem to be the only one that have trouble with the excellent modulation of disk brakes. If there is a brake combo that suffer from sudden braking it is rim brakes on CF rims.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> The more things become electric/electronic, the more we depend on the
>>> interconnected electric grid, making one of my major investments work
>>> for me. It is, however, very vulnerable.
>>
>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-carolina-power-outage-moore-county-police-investigation-crime-vandalism/
>>
>
>Not the only instance:
>https://unresolved.me/metcalf
>
>And others.
>https://stopfossilfuels.org/electric-grid/shooting-transformers-disables-substations/
>
>In military theory,'Once is an anomaly, twice is
>coincidence, the third is enemy action'
>
>These are 'test runs'. There will be more.
>
>Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.

Major substations are vulnerable, and major transmission lines are
even more vulnerable.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:52:13 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:34:54 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 12/4/2022 11:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:10:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:57:47 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:.
> > > > >>>> The conditions in the forest were excellent, almost no 'Schmutz' on by cross bike. Weather was typical, gloomy and around freezing. Dry though. We can't expect more this time of the year.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Lou
> > > > >>> Fun fact my Di2 battery died on me after 10km and 40+km to go for the first time I am using Di2. I must got sloppy. Fortunately I was in a decent gear and could finish the ride with no problem.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Lou
> > > > >> For 2023 Shimano will only offer Dura Ace in Di2. I don't think that they will be very successful with that strategy and can expect a change back in 2025. I suspect that most people are like me and don't like having to plug their bikes in to go for a ride.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most people that will buy 2023 12sp Dura Ace won’t have a problem with Di2, most of those people will demand Di2. Di2 is here to stay get used to it. Shimano 105 is already Di2 next year. Plug their bikes in to go for a ride? I charged that battery at the end of last season, februari 2022 when I overhauled that bike. It sat in my garage during the summer and I rode it for a month this season. I should have checked the battery: press shifter button and see if the led is green, green flashing, red flashing or red. In my case it was red. FD didn’t shift anymore, RD did still shift but I did put it in a comfortable gear and left it there.
> > > > I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic shifting.
> > > > I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
> > > > it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
> > > >
> > > > Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
> > > > to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise. My riding buddies asked ‘and now?’ Nothing, carry on.
> > If a shift cable breaks on the right side, you fall into the largest gear. What you can do it use the limit screw to get a little below that but not a whole lot. And I've never broken a shift cable except when I was installing them and overtightened the lock.
> >
> > I still have the opinion that selling only Di2 will doom the Dura Ace group in rather short order. I've had Di2 on a half dozen bikes but I could never get used to plugging my bike in. Also of note - disk brakes are also getting more and more kick-back and the groups that were talking about having disk brakes only are still selling rim brakes. And more and more pros are complaining about disks saying just what I did - they are too sudden and violent
> You are entitled to your opinion but it will prove to be the wrong one. DA 2023 12 speed are selling like hot cakes and are out of stock since the introduction. People who are willing to spend 4000 plus euro are not going to mess with cables or adjustments. Most people even choose the option that includes the power meter. More and more pro's are complaining about disks? What pro's? You seem to be the only one that have trouble with the excellent modulation of disk brakes. If there is a brake combo that suffer from sudden braking it is rim brakes on CF rims.

What is that worth? Of course the "new is better" enthusiasts will buy them.. But long term normal buyers may not. And that is what I think will happen.. I completely understand Di2 and why racers would want to use it. But I am having a problem as to why a normal rider who wants the top of the line would want it.

While Di2 improves shifting a good deal, that is mostly of use climbing. That is why I am having a bit of trouble with you thinking it is so grand. Flat ground doesn't need very much improved shifting except in high speed sprints.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:01:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 6:36 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 07:34:18 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 02:52:11 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:34:54 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/4/2022 11:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:10:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:57:47 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:.
> >>>>>>>>>> The conditions in the forest were excellent, almost no 'Schmutz' on by cross bike. Weather was typical, gloomy and around freezing. Dry though. We can't expect more this time of the year.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>>> Fun fact my Di2 battery died on me after 10km and 40+km to go for the first time I am using Di2. I must got sloppy. Fortunately I was in a decent gear and could finish the ride with no problem.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>>> For 2023 Shimano will only offer Dura Ace in Di2. I don't think that they will be very successful with that strategy and can expect a change back in 2025. I suspect that most people are like me and don't like having to plug their bikes in to go for a ride.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most people that will buy 2023 12sp Dura Ace won’t have a problem with Di2, most of those people will demand Di2. Di2 is here to stay get used to it. Shimano 105 is already Di2 next year. Plug their bikes in to go for a ride? I charged that battery at the end of last season, februari 2022 when I overhauled that bike. It sat in my garage during the summer and I rode it for a month this season. I should have checked the battery: press shifter button and see if the led is green, green flashing, red flashing or red. In my case it was red. FD didn’t shift anymore, RD did still shift but I did put it in a comfortable gear and left it there.
> >>>>>> I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic shifting.
> >>>>>> I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
> >>>>>> it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
> >>>>>> to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise. My riding buddies asked ‘and now?’ Nothing, carry on.
> >>>> If a shift cable breaks on the right side, you fall into the largest gear. What you can do it use the limit screw to get a little below that but not a whole lot. And I've never broken a shift cable except when I was installing them and overtightened the lock.
> >>>>
> >>>> I still have the opinion that selling only Di2 will doom the Dura Ace group in rather short order. I've had Di2 on a half dozen bikes but I could never get used to plugging my bike in. Also of note - disk brakes are also getting more and more kick-back and the groups that were talking about having disk brakes only are still selling rim brakes. And more and more pros are complaining about disks saying just what I did - they are too sudden and violent
> >>>
> >>> You are entitled to your opinion but it will prove to be the wrong one. DA 2023 12 speed are selling like hot cakes and are out of stock since the introduction. People who are willing to spend 4000 plus euro are not going to mess with cables or adjustments. Most people even choose the option that includes the power meter. More and more pro's are complaining about disks? What pro's? You seem to be the only one that have trouble with the excellent modulation of disk brakes. If there is a brake combo that suffer from sudden braking it is rim brakes on CF rims.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>
> >> The more things become electric/electronic, the more we depend on the
> >> interconnected electric grid, making one of my major investments work
> >> for me. It is, however, very vulnerable.
> >
> > https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-carolina-power-outage-moore-county-police-investigation-crime-vandalism/
> >
> Not the only instance:
> https://unresolved.me/metcalf
>
> And others.
> https://stopfossilfuels.org/electric-grid/shooting-transformers-disables-substations/
>
> In military theory,'Once is an anomaly, twice is
> coincidence, the third is enemy action'
>
> These are 'test runs'. There will be more.
>
> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.

The cops probably cannot find them because it was the state government.

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 4:45:55 PM UTC, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:10:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:57:47 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:.
> > > > The conditions in the forest were excellent, almost no 'Schmutz' on by cross bike. Weather was typical, gloomy and around freezing. Dry though.. We can't expect more this time of the year.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Fun fact my Di2 battery died on me after 10km and 40+km to go for the first time I am using Di2. I must got sloppy. Fortunately I was in a decent gear and could finish the ride with no problem.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > For 2023 Shimano will only offer Dura Ace in Di2. I don't think that they will be very successful with that strategy and can expect a change back in 2025. I suspect that most people are like me and don't like having to plug their bikes in to go for a ride.
> Most people that will buy 2023 12sp Dura Ace won’t have a problem with Di2, most of those people will demand Di2. Di2 is here to stay get used to it. Shimano 105 is already Di2 next year. Plug their bikes in to go for a ride? I charged that battery at the end of last season, februari 2022 when I overhauled that bike. It sat in my garage during the summer and I rode it for a month this season. I should have checked the battery: press shifter button and see if the led is green, green flashing, red flashing or red. In my case it was red. FD didn’t shift anymore, RD did still shift but I did put it in a comfortable gear and left it there. After 1 or 2 hours the battery was charged and it will be good for the rest of the off road season: end of februari. I think Shimano know what they are doing.
>
> Lou
>
Shimano has had enough bites at the Di2 cherry to get it right after around thirty years, if you start with their 3-speed autobox, and carry on through the Di2 full-auto I rode from c2002 forward until I discovered the joys of the 14-speed Rohloff twist shifter. -- AJ
>

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 5:01:40 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:52:13 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:34:54 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 12/4/2022 11:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:10:49 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:57:47 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:.
> > > > > >>>> The conditions in the forest were excellent, almost no 'Schmutz' on by cross bike. Weather was typical, gloomy and around freezing. Dry though. We can't expect more this time of the year.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Lou
> > > > > >>> Fun fact my Di2 battery died on me after 10km and 40+km to go for the first time I am using Di2. I must got sloppy. Fortunately I was in a decent gear and could finish the ride with no problem.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Lou
> > > > > >> For 2023 Shimano will only offer Dura Ace in Di2. I don't think that they will be very successful with that strategy and can expect a change back in 2025. I suspect that most people are like me and don't like having to plug their bikes in to go for a ride.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most people that will buy 2023 12sp Dura Ace won’t have a problem with Di2, most of those people will demand Di2. Di2 is here to stay get used to it. Shimano 105 is already Di2 next year. Plug their bikes in to go for a ride? I charged that battery at the end of last season, februari 2022 when I overhauled that bike. It sat in my garage during the summer and I rode it for a month this season. I should have checked the battery: press shifter button and see if the led is green, green flashing, red flashing or red. In my case it was red. FD didn’t shift anymore, RD did still shift but I did put it in a comfortable gear and left it there.
> > > > > I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic shifting.
> > > > > I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
> > > > > it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
> > > > > to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise. My riding buddies asked ‘and now?’ Nothing, carry on.
> > > If a shift cable breaks on the right side, you fall into the largest gear. What you can do it use the limit screw to get a little below that but not a whole lot. And I've never broken a shift cable except when I was installing them and overtightened the lock.
> > >
> > > I still have the opinion that selling only Di2 will doom the Dura Ace group in rather short order. I've had Di2 on a half dozen bikes but I could never get used to plugging my bike in. Also of note - disk brakes are also getting more and more kick-back and the groups that were talking about having disk brakes only are still selling rim brakes. And more and more pros are complaining about disks saying just what I did - they are too sudden and violent
> > You are entitled to your opinion but it will prove to be the wrong one. DA 2023 12 speed are selling like hot cakes and are out of stock since the introduction. People who are willing to spend 4000 plus euro are not going to mess with cables or adjustments. Most people even choose the option that includes the power meter. More and more pro's are complaining about disks? What pro's? You seem to be the only one that have trouble with the excellent modulation of disk brakes. If there is a brake combo that suffer from sudden braking it is rim brakes on CF rims.
> What is that worth? Of course the "new is better" enthusiasts will buy them. But long term normal buyers may not. And that is what I think will happen. I completely understand Di2 and why racers would want to use it. But I am having a problem as to why a normal rider who wants the top of the line would want it.
>
> While Di2 improves shifting a good deal, that is mostly of use climbing. That is why I am having a bit of trouble with you thinking it is so grand. Flat ground doesn't need very much improved shifting except in high speed sprints.

Don’t think for me please. For me getting rid of the hassle of the cables is enough reason to choose for Di2. I have 3 bikes now equipped with Di2 and thereare no downsides (for me). What we are actually discussing is whether Shimano has a business model offering DA only in Di2 for the next generation. I think they do.

Lou

On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.

"PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
Wave"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
That was 5 years ago.

PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
<https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
<https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>

I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
transformers.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>
> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> Wave"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> That was 5 years ago.
>
> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>
> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> transformers.
>
>

Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
decides to take out all three of them.

Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>
>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>> Wave"
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>> That was 5 years ago.
>>
>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>
>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>> transformers.
>>
>>
>
> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> decides to take out all three of them.
>

And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
year lead time, and you’re in trouble.

On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> wrote:
>> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>
>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>> Wave"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>
>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>
>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>> transformers.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>
>
> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>

Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
Metcalf sabotage.

And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
(not some kid plinking).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >
> > "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> > Wave"
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> > That was 5 years ago.
> >
> > PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> > <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> > <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >
> > I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> > transformers.
> >
> >
> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> decides to take out all three of them.
Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>
> >>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>> Wave"
> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>
> >>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>> transformers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>
> >
> > And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> > stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares..
> > They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> > area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> > that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> > year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >
>
> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> Metcalf sabotage.
>
> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> (not some kid plinking).

Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.

3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.

On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>
>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>> Wave"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>
>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>
>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>> transformers.
>>>
>>>
>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>> decides to take out all three of them.
> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
>

Nope.
There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
into 70,000 substations.
https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities

Plus railroad and military systems.

It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
cooling issues with armor plate.

Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
Good luck with that.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>
>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>> Wave"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
>> Metcalf sabotage.
>>
>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
>> (not some kid plinking).
>
> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
>
> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
>

It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
leaks didn't result in failures until much later.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/6/2022 1:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>
>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>> Wave"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>> transformers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and
>>> bushing
>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares
>>> policy.
>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100
>>> MVA,
>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some
>>> asshat
>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make
>> them bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
>>
>
> Nope.
> There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down into 70,000
> substations.
> https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
>
> Plus railroad and military systems.
>
> It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent cooling
> issues with armor plate.
>
> Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a depleted
> uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld RPG?  A Russian
> RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor. Good luck with that.

Reactive armor at least! Quit trying to go cheap!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:00:20 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>
> >>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>> Wave"
> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>
> >>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>> transformers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >> decides to take out all three of them.
> > Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
> >
> Nope.
> There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
> into 70,000 substations.
> https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
>
> Plus railroad and military systems.
>
> It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
> cooling issues with armor plate.
>
> Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
> depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
> RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
> Good luck with that.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Where are you suggesting that you could get a "depleted uranium .50 caliber" without leaving a trail straight to your doorway. That is why they try using "armor piercing 7.62 (.30 caliber).

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>>> Wave"
> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>>> transformers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> >>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> >>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> >>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> >>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> >>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> >> Metcalf sabotage.
> >>
> >> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> >> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> >> (not some kid plinking).
> >
> > Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
> >
> > 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
> >
> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.

This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.

On 12/6/2022 2:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>>>> Wave"
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
>>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
>>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
>>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
>>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
>>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
>>>> Metcalf sabotage.
>>>>
>>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
>>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
>>>> (not some kid plinking).
>>>
>>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
>>>
>>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
>>>
>> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
>> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
>> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
>> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
>
> This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.
>

In 2013 Mr Trump was a fat obnoxious hotel magnate, not
President.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>
>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>> Wave"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>> transformers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them
>> bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
>>
>
> Nope.
> There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
> into 70,000 substations.
> https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
>
> Plus railroad and military systems.
>
> It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
> cooling issues with armor plate.
>
> Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
> depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
> RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
> Good luck with that.
>

I spent two years of my life working on the problem of transformer tank
rupture during internal faults, and I can tell you that the stiffer and
thicker you make the tank, the more likely you are to rupture it during an
internal fault event. Besides, if you harden the tank, some asshole will
just shoot out the rads or the bushings.

This is a very hard problem. The issue here is that there is an unwritten
pact in society where infrastructure is mostly unprotected and therefore
much cheaper, and society in return promises to not fuck around with it.
With so many fringe elements in society wanting to return civilization to
the Stone Age we have to either spend unimaginable amounts of money to make
our infrastructure Civil War proof, or we just “convince” these numbskulls
to quit doing that.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 12/4/2022 2:35 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic
>>> shifting.
>>> I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
>>> it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
>>>
>>> Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
>>> to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
>>>
>>> -- - Frank Krygowski
>> It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have
>> the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise.
>
> True, and I've done that. After the second time it happened
> (admittedly, in many years) I began leaving an extra 1" diameter loop
> of cable at the rear derailleur. And I think there was one time I used
> that as intended - that is, loosened the derailleur cable clamp screw,
> fed the extra cable back through my shifter and knotted it to replace
> the cable's button end.
>
> Eventually I just started carrying an extra shift cable. As with
> umbrellas preventing rain, I don't think I've broken a shift cable
> since.

Hmmm. Seems like more incidents of cable breakage for you than
total battery flattenings reported by anyone for Di2. Not that I'm
buying Di2, mind, but I see no need to sneer at it.

On 12/6/2022 2:47 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>
>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>> Wave"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them
>>> bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
>>>
>>
>> Nope.
>> There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
>> into 70,000 substations.
>> https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
>>
>> Plus railroad and military systems.
>>
>> It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
>> cooling issues with armor plate.
>>
>> Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
>> depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
>> RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
>> Good luck with that.
>>
>
> I spent two years of my life working on the problem of transformer tank
> rupture during internal faults, and I can tell you that the stiffer and
> thicker you make the tank, the more likely you are to rupture it during an
> internal fault event. Besides, if you harden the tank, some asshole will
> just shoot out the rads or the bushings.
>
> This is a very hard problem. The issue here is that there is an unwritten
> pact in society where infrastructure is mostly unprotected and therefore
> much cheaper, and society in return promises to not fuck around with it.
> With so many fringe elements in society wanting to return civilization to
> the Stone Age we have to either spend unimaginable amounts of money to make
> our infrastructure Civil War proof, or we just “convince” these numbskulls
> to quit doing that.
>

Ouch. I hadn't considered civil war as a motive. I assumed
it was just another chinese feint to understand the problem
better.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:33:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 2:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>>>>> Wave"
> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>>>>> transformers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> >>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> >>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> >>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> >>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> >>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> >>>> Metcalf sabotage.
> >>>>
> >>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> >>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> >>>> (not some kid plinking).
> >>>
> >>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
> >>>
> >>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
> >>>
> >> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> >> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> >> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> >> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
> >
> > This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.
> >
> In 2013 Mr Trump was a fat obnoxious hotel magnate, not
> President.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Are you suggesting that Bush or Obama did anything it? Or Pat Brown? If you saw Brown's Oakland home you'd know very well what he had been doing. And if it had anything to do with PG&E it was appended withy many dollar signs.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:47:26 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>
> >>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>> Wave"
> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>
> >>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>> transformers.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them
> >> bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
> >>
> >
> > Nope.
> > There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
> > into 70,000 substations.
> > https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
> >
> > Plus railroad and military systems.
> >
> > It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
> > cooling issues with armor plate.
> >
> > Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
> > depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
> > RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
> > Good luck with that.
> >
> I spent two years of my life working on the problem of transformer tank
> rupture during internal faults, and I can tell you that the stiffer and
> thicker you make the tank, the more likely you are to rupture it during an
> internal fault event. Besides, if you harden the tank, some asshole will
> just shoot out the rads or the bushings.
>
> This is a very hard problem. The issue here is that there is an unwritten
> pact in society where infrastructure is mostly unprotected and therefore
> much cheaper, and society in return promises to not fuck around with it.
> With so many fringe elements in society wanting to return civilization to
> the Stone Age we have to either spend unimaginable amounts of money to make
> our infrastructure Civil War proof, or we just “convince” these numbskulls
> to quit doing that.
Ralph, you are looking at this from a technological angle. Clearly you were never in the service. You place the transformer INSIDE of an armored bathtub. You NEVER want to have to redesign anything. You couldn't believe the garbage that was inside of a B52. We had an electronic terrain avoidance computer that could have had only slight modifications to replace all of the analog computers in the aircraft and made it 500 lbs lighter. But that isn't the way it worked at that time. Now they have added new engines to the B52H and added computer controls that almost eliminate the need for a bomber and navigator and can even use voice control, and they are calling it the B52K. ALL of this was possible to do in 1970 so why didn't they do it? Because the management of the military has to grow up with the idea of electronics. In 1970 everyone was still thinking like MacArthur.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:33:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 2:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>>>>> Wave"
> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>>>>> transformers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> >>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> >>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> >>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> >>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> >>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> >>>> Metcalf sabotage.
> >>>>
> >>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> >>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> >>>> (not some kid plinking).
> >>>
> >>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
> >>>
> >>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
> >>>
> >> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> >> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> >> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> >> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
> >
> > This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.
> >
> In 2013 Mr Trump was a fat obnoxious hotel magnate, not
> President.

A fat obnoxious hotel magnate that could think circles around the best leaders we had. And even slowing up is STILL far better than Ron DeSantis will ever be. You use HONEST politicians when nothing needs fixing because a government without brilliant leadership does absolutely nothing.

On 12/6/2022 3:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:33:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/6/2022 2:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>>>>>> Wave"
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
>>>>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
>>>>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
>>>>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
>>>>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
>>>>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
>>>>>> Metcalf sabotage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
>>>>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
>>>>>> (not some kid plinking).
>>>>>
>>>>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
>>>>>
>>>> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
>>>> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
>>>> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
>>>> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
>>>
>>> This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.
>>>
>> In 2013 Mr Trump was a fat obnoxious hotel magnate, not
>> President.

> Are you suggesting that Bush or Obama did anything it? Or Pat Brown? If you saw Brown's Oakland home you'd know very well what he had been doing. And if it had anything to do with PG&E it was appended withy many dollar signs.
>

In 2013 George W Bush was retired in Texas.
Pat Brown died in the 1990s. He's still dead, I assume.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2022-12-06, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>
>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>> Wave"
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>> transformers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>
>>
>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>>
>
> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> Metcalf sabotage.
>
> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> (not some kid plinking).
>

Listening to NPR today (I scan a bunch of stations, not just that one) I
heard an 'expert' say that 17 xformers at Metcalf were taken out w/ rifle
fire.

I had never heard what had happened until today..back in 2016, I think. They
had kept the actual damage under wraps.

pH in Aptos