On 2022-12-06, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>>> Wave"
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
>>> Metcalf sabotage.
>>>
>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
>>> (not some kid plinking).
>>
>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
>>
>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
>>
>
> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
>

I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as coolant
oils.

Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination, by
weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.

I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil as
usual.
(Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)

pH in Aptos

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 2:47 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 12/6/2022 10:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 6:19:15 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
>>>>>> Wave"
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
>>>>>> transformers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
>>>> Transformers are encased in steel and it doesn't take much to make them
>>>> bullet proof. What the real question is, is why would you have to?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>> There are 600,000 miles of high tension line stepping down
>>> into 70,000 substations.
>>> https://www.nae.edu/19579/19582/21020/183082/183133/The-US-Electric-Power-System-Infrastructure-and-Its-Vulnerabilities
>>>
>>> Plus railroad and military systems.
>>>
>>> It's a ridiculous idea given the number of them and inherent
>>> cooling issues with armor plate.
>>>
>>> Besides how much armor? Enough for a 7.62? Enough to stop a
>>> depleted uranium .50? Enough for defense against a handheld
>>> RPG? A Russian RPG-26 can penetrate 440mm (17") of armor.
>>> Good luck with that.
>>>
>>
>> I spent two years of my life working on the problem of transformer tank
>> rupture during internal faults, and I can tell you that the stiffer and
>> thicker you make the tank, the more likely you are to rupture it during an
>> internal fault event. Besides, if you harden the tank, some asshole will
>> just shoot out the rads or the bushings.
>>
>> This is a very hard problem. The issue here is that there is an unwritten
>> pact in society where infrastructure is mostly unprotected and therefore
>> much cheaper, and society in return promises to not fuck around with it.
>> With so many fringe elements in society wanting to return civilization to
>> the Stone Age we have to either spend unimaginable amounts of money to make
>> our infrastructure Civil War proof, or we just “convince” these numbskulls
>> to quit doing that.
>>
>
> Ouch. I hadn't considered civil war as a motive. I assumed
> it was just another chinese feint to understand the problem
> better.
>

I’m much more concerned about the Boogaloo Boys and their ilk than foreign
terrorists. After all, they already live here.

On 12/6/2022 4:00 PM, pH wrote:

<snip>

> Listening to NPR today (I scan a bunch of stations, not just that one) I
> heard an 'expert' say that 17 xformers at Metcalf were taken out w/ rifle
> fire.
>
> I had never heard what had happened until today..back in 2016, I think. They
> had kept the actual damage under wraps.

I seem to recall that incident.

On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
>
> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as coolant
> oils.
>
> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination, by
> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
>
> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil as
> usual.
> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)

Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
come in with special equipment to remove any trace.

A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long it
had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of unwanted
attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and walked off
with it.

One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to work
on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a bellows
filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to deal with
the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he were in the
same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We never did get
that device fixed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/6/2022 4:07 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> On 12/4/2022 2:35 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic
>>>> shifting.
>>>> I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
>>>> it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
>>>>
>>>> Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
>>>> to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
>>>>
>>>> -- - Frank Krygowski
>>> It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have
>>> the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise.
>>
>> True, and I've done that. After the second time it happened
>> (admittedly, in many years) I began leaving an extra 1" diameter loop
>> of cable at the rear derailleur. And I think there was one time I used
>> that as intended - that is, loosened the derailleur cable clamp screw,
>> fed the extra cable back through my shifter and knotted it to replace
>> the cable's button end.
>>
>> Eventually I just started carrying an extra shift cable. As with
>> umbrellas preventing rain, I don't think I've broken a shift cable
>> since.
>
> Hmmm. Seems like more incidents of cable breakage for you than
> total battery flattenings reported by anyone for Di2. Not that I'm
> buying Di2, mind, but I see no need to sneer at it.

I think I had four of those in ~50 years.

I guess about 40 years from now we can compare records for Di2.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as coolant
>> oils.
>>
>> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination, by
>> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
>> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
>> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
>>
>> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil as
>> usual.
>> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
>> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
>
> Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
> broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
> come in with special equipment to remove any trace.
>
> A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
> back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long it
> had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of unwanted
> attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and walked off
> with it.
>
> One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to work
> on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a bellows
> filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to deal with
> the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he were in the
> same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We never did get
> that device fixed.
>

Due to an error setting the pressure on a gas cylinder regulator, we blew
all of the innards out of a mercury manometer we were using for pressure
measurement in a calibration jig. Luckily, I had some connections who had
the special equipment needed to clean up a mercury spill, but it still took
a couple of months to completely clean it up and return that room to
service. We bought a digital pressure sensor after that…

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 4:07 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 12/4/2022 2:35 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:16:48 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> I don't want to argue benefits vs. detriments of electronic
>>>>> shifting.
>>>>> I'll just point out that your solution - put it in a good gear and leave
>>>>> it there - works far better in the Netherlands than anywhere around here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, except for perhaps some rail trails. Many of those are flat enough
>>>>> to be ridden well enough on a one speed bike.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- - Frank Krygowski
>>>> It was off road in the forest with short steeper sections. You have
>>>> the same situation when a shift cable breaks. Improvise.
>>>
>>> True, and I've done that. After the second time it happened
>>> (admittedly, in many years) I began leaving an extra 1" diameter loop
>>> of cable at the rear derailleur. And I think there was one time I used
>>> that as intended - that is, loosened the derailleur cable clamp screw,
>>> fed the extra cable back through my shifter and knotted it to replace
>>> the cable's button end.
>>>
>>> Eventually I just started carrying an extra shift cable. As with
>>> umbrellas preventing rain, I don't think I've broken a shift cable
>>> since.
>>
>> Hmmm. Seems like more incidents of cable breakage for you than
>> total battery flattenings reported by anyone for Di2. Not that I'm
>> buying Di2, mind, but I see no need to sneer at it.
>
> I think I had four of those in ~50 years.
>
> I guess about 40 years from now we can compare records for Di2.
>
My commute and gravel bike are fine, but my MTB has a bodge essentially the
rear derailleur cable has the full outer, as if run internally water and
grot gets in and becomes un useable in a remarkably short period of time,
note that UK is a wet place and MTBing particularly winter is a soggy
place!

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
>> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as
>> coolant
>> oils.
>> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination,
>> by
>> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
>> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
>> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
>> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil
>> as
>> usual.
>> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
>> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
>
> Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
> broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
> come in with special equipment to remove any trace.
>
> A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
> back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long
> it had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of
> unwanted attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and
> walked off with it.
>
> One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to
> work on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a
> bellows filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to
> deal with the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he
> were in the same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We
> never did get that device fixed.

When I was a lad sick at home having my temperature taken I managed to
break a mercury thermometer bulb with my teeth. No mercury was
recovered. For a short while I was fairly sure I was going to die, but
the doctor said that as long as I hadn't swallowed any glass there
should be no problem. As far as I can tell there wasn't.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 3:01:52 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 3:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:33:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/6/2022 2:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>>>>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>>>>>>> Wave"
> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>>>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>>>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>>>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123..49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>>>>>>> transformers.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>>>>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>>>>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>>>>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>>>>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>>>>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>>>>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>>>>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> >>>>>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> >>>>>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> >>>>>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> >>>>>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> >>>>>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> >>>>>> Metcalf sabotage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> >>>>>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> >>>>>> (not some kid plinking).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
> >>>>>
> >>>> It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> >>>> don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> >>>> anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> >>>> leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
> >>>
> >>> This was a terrorist act that was never repeated. If you think that it wasn't covered by the CIA under Trump, you're mistaken. They just didn't hand out flyers to the Slime Stream Media saying that they didn't go through the justice system.
> >>>
> >> In 2013 Mr Trump was a fat obnoxious hotel magnate, not
> >> President.
> > Are you suggesting that Bush or Obama did anything it? Or Pat Brown? If you saw Brown's Oakland home you'd know very well what he had been doing. And if it had anything to do with PG&E it was appended withy many dollar signs.
> >
> In 2013 George W Bush was retired in Texas.
> Pat Brown died in the 1990s. He's still dead, I assume.

I'm assuming you realized that I was talking about Jerry Brown. The California secret service has closed that street down where Jerry Brown's castle is so that you can't drive by there and wonder where he could ever have possibly gotten the money to build something like that on the governor's wage.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 4:20:12 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> On 2022-12-06, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 12/6/2022 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 6:27:18 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 12/5/2022 8:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>>> Ralph Barone <ra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:01:13 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Substation transformers are not standardized, backup units
> >>>>>>> are few to none, delays for replacement can be months. A
> >>>>>>> concerted effort at multiple locations would be cataclysmic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "PG&E Stocked With Transformers To Replace Any That Fail During Heat
> >>>>>> Wave"
> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6lUyH48vqo> (1:32)
> >>>>>> That was 5 years ago.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PG&E Fremont, CA materials yard:
> >>>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WKqHyCTMEX5BDjxA7>
> >>>>>> <https://earth.google.com/web/search/+37%c2%b030%2717%22N,+121%c2%b059%279%22W/@37.50461874,-121.98664575,5.28366988a,520.9748141d,35y,123.49606103h,44.99811523t,0r/data=Cl0aMxItGVdIr7yawEJAIbKzjeQXf17AKhkgMzfCsDMwJzE3Ik4sIDEyMcKwNTknOSJXGAIgASImCiQJChOVa-7ZQkARjxq8X73ZQkAZ7Q_nz52JXsAhCR03RrSJXsA>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I couldn't find where PG&E stores their larger spare sub-station
> >>>>>> transformers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Between voltages, winding configurations, MVA rating, impedance and bushing
> >>>>> layout, there are too many variations to have an effective spares policy.
> >>>>> However, the design criteria typically is to have N-1 redundancy in the
> >>>>> station, so if your power transfer between two voltage levels is 100 MVA,
> >>>>> you should have either two 100 MVA transformers, or three 50 MVA
> >>>>> transformers in the station, so you can take one out for maintenance
> >>>>> without having to drop customers. This doesn’t help you when some asshat
> >>>>> decides to take out all three of them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And I should have replied to Jeff that distribution transformers (the type
> >>>> stacked up in the video) ARE standardized so you can stock up on spares.
> >>>> They also typically only serve a small amount of load in a small geographic
> >>>> area, so consequences of their failure is minimal (unless it’s your house
> >>>> that was fed from it). Take out a 1200 MVA system transformer with a three
> >>>> year lead time, and you’re in trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Thank you. That was discussed in depth following the 2013
> >>> Metcalf sabotage.
> >>>
> >>> And I do not use that term lightly as it was about 10
> >>> persons with 7.62 in concentrated fire at the transformers
> >>> (not some kid plinking).
> >>
> >> Even with suppressors, firing 30 calibers by 10 people would be audible from 10 miles away. This should have triggered instant response and not "can you send a police car by this area"? The technology is now so advanced that not only could you triangulate it but actually tell how many there were and the CALIBER of the weapons purely by analysis. Wouldn't you think that video and audio devices would be part of the PG&E infrastructure? It isn't as if 1. PG&E is being blamed for fires that they where not responsible for. THIS is why they are now burying power lines in forested areas which makes the cost of maintenance 10 times of more higher. 2. There are bacteria that degrade the cable insulation draining power off into the surrounding earth.
> >>
> >> 3. We have seen a clear threat of terrorism and the FBI is concentrating on protecting the President from his own acts of treason. Twitter's released papers show that the FBI is no longer the worlds foremost crime fighting organization but a politicized dumping ground for those entrusted to protect the powered elite.
> >>
> >
> > It was well covered at that time and it's in your area,
> > don't you recall? A squad car was sent, officer didn't see
> > anything and so went on to his other duties. The coolant
> > leaks didn't result in failures until much later.
> >
> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as coolant
> oils.
>
> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination, by
> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
>
> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil as
> usual.
> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
>
> pH in Aptos
If you were capable of identifying PCB's I assume that you also had the resources to get rid of them.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:52:37 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as coolant
> >> oils.
> >>
> >> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination, by
> >> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
> >> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
> >> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
> >>
> >> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil as
> >> usual.
> >> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
> >> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
> >
> > Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
> > broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
> > come in with special equipment to remove any trace.
> >
> > A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
> > back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long it
> > had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of unwanted
> > attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and walked off
> > with it.
> >
> > One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to work
> > on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a bellows
> > filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to deal with
> > the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he were in the
> > same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We never did get
> > that device fixed.
> >
> Due to an error setting the pressure on a gas cylinder regulator, we blew
> all of the innards out of a mercury manometer we were using for pressure
> measurement in a calibration jig. Luckily, I had some connections who had
> the special equipment needed to clean up a mercury spill, but it still took
> a couple of months to completely clean it up and return that room to
> service. We bought a digital pressure sensor after that…

Mercury vapor is a problem and not mercury in its liquid state. So breaking thermometers etc. can be cleaned up fairly easily and quickly without danger. What I always said was that the worst danger from Mercury was being run over by one.

On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 1:38:43 PM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
> > On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
> >> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as
> >> coolant
> >> oils.
> >> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination,
> >> by
> >> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
> >> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
> >> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
> >> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil
> >> as
> >> usual.
> >> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
> >> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
> >
> > Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
> > broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
> > come in with special equipment to remove any trace.
> >
> > A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
> > back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long
> > it had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of
> > unwanted attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and
> > walked off with it.
> >
> > One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to
> > work on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a
> > bellows filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to
> > deal with the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he
> > were in the same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We
> > never did get that device fixed.
> When I was a lad sick at home having my temperature taken I managed to
> break a mercury thermometer bulb with my teeth. No mercury was
> recovered. For a short while I was fairly sure I was going to die, but
> the doctor said that as long as I hadn't swallowed any glass there
> should be no problem. As far as I can tell there wasn't.
You can drink elemental mercury without harm. It doesn't vaporize until 68C which is 154 degrees F. Most of the problems with mercury is with its organic forms.

On 12/7/2022 4:38 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>
>
> When I was a lad sick at home having my temperature taken I managed to
> break a mercury thermometer bulb with my teeth. No mercury was
> recovered. For a short while I was fairly sure I was going to die, but
> the doctor said that as long as I hadn't swallowed any glass there
> should be no problem. As far as I can tell there wasn't.

I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
kids.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 07 Dec 2022 16:38:39 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> On 12/6/2022 7:20 PM, pH wrote:
>>> I'm glad they no longer use Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCB's) as
>>> coolant
>>> oils.
>>> Once had a sample of pure PCB-1260 (12 carbons, 60% chlorination,
>>> by
>>> weight, I guess there was PCB 1216, 1232, 1248, etc.) come into the lab for
>>> analysis. It looked rather like salad oil. Once the customer found out what
>>> it was he disappeared and we were stuck with the quart of oil to get rid of.
>>> I just dumped it down the storm drain along with the used motor oil
>>> as
>>> usual.
>>> (Just Kidding! in case my sense of humour does not come through w/ the
>>> text. We had to hold onto it for proper disposal.)
>>
>> Vaguely related: One lab on campus had a minor mercury spill from some
>> broken instrument. It was all over the campus news how someone had to
>> come in with special equipment to remove any trace.
>>
>> A while later, I discovered an uncovered beaker of mercury way in the
>> back of one of my lab cabinets. I didn't know its source or how long
>> it had been there. I was worried that it would generate lots of
>> unwanted attention; but no, the campus safety guy just showed up and
>> walked off with it.
>>
>> One machinist/repair guy we had once stonewalled us and refused to
>> work on a rather expensive old dynamometer because it contained a
>> bellows filled with mercury, used to measure torque. He didn't have to
>> deal with the mercury to affect the repair, but he imagined that if he
>> were in the same room with the stuff it would somehow affect him. We
>> never did get that device fixed.
>
>When I was a lad sick at home having my temperature taken I managed to
>break a mercury thermometer bulb with my teeth. No mercury was
>recovered. For a short while I was fairly sure I was going to die, but
>the doctor said that as long as I hadn't swallowed any glass there
>should be no problem. As far as I can tell there wasn't.

When I was in high school the science lab had a mercury barometer, a
bowl of mercury and a glass tube, and some kids used to drop pennies
in the mercury bowl and in a day or so they would "turn silver" where
upon they were fished out and flaunted as "silver pennies". I don't
remember anyone dying of mercury poisoning :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 9:07:23 PM UTC, Radey Shouman wrote: to that idiot Krygowski:
> Hmmm. Seems like more incidents of cable breakage for you than
> total battery flattenings reported by anyone for Di2. Not that I'm
> buying Di2, mind, but I see no need to sneer at it.
>
1. I consider a cable breakage in use the sign of a bad cyclist who doesn't know how to maintain his bike. I've always wondered why Krygowski calls himself an engineer. I've done more engineering in a few interludes of industrial design than he did in a lifetime.
>
2. I'm qualified to sneer at the current Di2 as a retrograde, cut-down "Preselector"* version of the full-auto Di2 I owned (I still have it in the loft) and rode twenty years ago, my Trek Smover.
>
3. The technical and operating description, plus component photographs of the Real McCoy of Di2s (heh-heh! is here:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
>
4. Two photo essays of a ride with more photos of the bike:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLEKilmacsimon1.html
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLEKilmacsimon2.html
>
Andre Jute
Car-free and carefree since 1990. Greener than thou.
>
* You need to have owned and operated a British vintage car with the preselector gearbox (a box you put in a gear with a lever, and only afterwards depressed the clutch, a grim, slow-working device still available on buses) to understand why it is sneer-worthy. It was always intended to give people who sat behind chauffeurs a jerk-free ride.
>

On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
> kids.

I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>

Mercury poisoning:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
<https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>

For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
sources.

"Radioactive Drew"
<https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/8/2022 7:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
>> kids.
>
> I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
>
> Mercury poisoning:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
> Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
> <https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>
>
> For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
> hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
> sources.
>
> "Radioactive Drew"
> <https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>
>

+1

I've spent a lifetime around metallic mercury (OK not all
that much), lead (a lot), asbestos dust, lacquer thinner,
MEK, leaded premium gasoline, Camel straights and little
Italian Parodi cigars and liquor (never to excess but some
every day). I'm still not dead, unlike most of my friends,
associates and lovers who drop with increasing frequency.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:34:56 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/8/2022 7:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
>>> kids.
>>
>> I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
>>
>> Mercury poisoning:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
>> Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
>> <https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>
>>
>> For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
>> hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
>> sources.
>>
>> "Radioactive Drew"
>> <https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>

>+1
>
>I've spent a lifetime around metallic mercury (OK not all
>that much), lead (a lot), asbestos dust, lacquer thinner,
>MEK, leaded premium gasoline, Camel straights and little
>Italian Parodi cigars and liquor (never to excess but some
>every day). I'm still not dead, unlike most of my friends,
>associates and lovers who drop with increasing frequency.

It's not fun if it also isn't somewhat dangerous.

I have a good guess what is most likely to kill me. I will be in a
local Supermarket parking lot, run over by a clueless driver, who
believes that all the rules of the road are suspended in the parking
lot. I've come closer to meeting a premature demise in that parking
lot than any of the incredibly stupid stunts we all do a teenagers
because we all think we're going to live forever. I even have dreams
(nightmares) about it. When my life was orchestrated by my alarm
clock, I would also have dreams of driving off a Hwy 1 ocean cliff and
crashing into the rocks below. Fortunately, those dreams went away
after I disposed of the alarm clock.

I missed some of the "hazardous" substances and activities you
mentioned. I've never smoked and I don't drink alcohol. I made up
for the deficiency by washing my hands in TCE (trichlorethylene) flux
remover, which was part of the PCB (printed circuit board) production
process in a small company. This was before the dangers were known.
There were five of us doing that. I'm the only one of the five who
did not develop kidney or liver cancer.

Understanding the units of measure for radioactivity is a mess. I
still need a cheat sheet in order to keep them straight. I used to
give talks at the local high school on radioactivity until I was told
to stop because I was causing panic among a few of the parents.

I also worked in the 2way radio business. In Los Angeles, the dark
humor was that we would kill off at least one technician every year
while working on the equipment (high voltage tubes), towers (fall from
height) or automotive (running wires under vehicle). That went away
when vacuum tubes were replaced by semiconductors and various
organizations started imposing safety standards on towers.

I could go on with a long list of dangerous machinery and activities.
However, I'm dead tired from spending a cold afternoon working on a
friend's RV so they could leave on a vacation. Suffice to say that
the stuff I repair or rebuild usually has been marginally maintained.
There are plenty of ways to get hurt fixing chainsaws, generators,
trimmers, etc. The trick is that if you know how it works, you can
avoid the hazards. I try to avoid fixing things that I don't
understand, which I think has helped keep me alive and in one piece.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 5:19:31 AM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:34:56 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 12/8/2022 7:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
> >>> kids.
> >>
> >> I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
> >> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
> >>
> >> Mercury poisoning:
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
> >> Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
> >> <https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>
> >>
> >> For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
> >> hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
> >> sources.
> >>
> >> "Radioactive Drew"
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>
>
> >+1
> >
> >I've spent a lifetime around metallic mercury (OK not all
> >that much), lead (a lot), asbestos dust, lacquer thinner,
> >MEK, leaded premium gasoline, Camel straights and little
> >Italian Parodi cigars and liquor (never to excess but some
> >every day). I'm still not dead, unlike most of my friends,
> >associates and lovers who drop with increasing frequency.
> It's not fun if it also isn't somewhat dangerous.
>
> I have a good guess what is most likely to kill me. I will be in a
> local Supermarket parking lot, run over by a clueless driver, who
> believes that all the rules of the road are suspended in the parking
> lot. I've come closer to meeting a premature demise in that parking
> lot than any of the incredibly stupid stunts we all do a teenagers
> because we all think we're going to live forever. I even have dreams
> (nightmares) about it. When my life was orchestrated by my alarm
> clock, I would also have dreams of driving off a Hwy 1 ocean cliff and
> crashing into the rocks below. Fortunately, those dreams went away
> after I disposed of the alarm clock.
>
> I missed some of the "hazardous" substances and activities you
> mentioned. I've never smoked and I don't drink alcohol. I made up
> for the deficiency by washing my hands in TCE (trichlorethylene) flux
> remover, which was part of the PCB (printed circuit board) production
> process in a small company. This was before the dangers were known.
> There were five of us doing that. I'm the only one of the five who
> did not develop kidney or liver cancer.
>
> Understanding the units of measure for radioactivity is a mess. I
> still need a cheat sheet in order to keep them straight. I used to
> give talks at the local high school on radioactivity until I was told
> to stop because I was causing panic among a few of the parents.
>
> I also worked in the 2way radio business. In Los Angeles, the dark
> humor was that we would kill off at least one technician every year
> while working on the equipment (high voltage tubes), towers (fall from
> height) or automotive (running wires under vehicle). That went away
> when vacuum tubes were replaced by semiconductors and various
> organizations started imposing safety standards on towers.
>
> I could go on with a long list of dangerous machinery and activities.
> However, I'm dead tired from spending a cold afternoon working on a
> friend's RV so they could leave on a vacation. Suffice to say that
> the stuff I repair or rebuild usually has been marginally maintained.
> There are plenty of ways to get hurt fixing chainsaws, generators,
> trimmers, etc. The trick is that if you know how it works, you can
> avoid the hazards. I try to avoid fixing things that I don't
> understand, which I think has helped keep me alive and in one piece.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
I'm so paranoid that in the fifteen years or so i built tube audio amplifiers with big broadcast valves, and consequently work with c2000V every day, I only got one shock, from brushing wires of my workbench while looking at the apprentice and telling him to clear the workspace after himself, every time. But the mains here is 220V, still a substantial jolt. The slack little bugger had left the lead plugged in and switched on... My colleague in charge of the appie and our engineering in general, went to speak to the kid's mother -- and discovered that his father electrocuted himself! We trained him so well that he's now a foreman on an HT feed line crew in Britain's industrial Midlands. I'll ask him if there's an official fatality statistic for the guys who work up these towers, the next time he comes to pay his respects.
>
For you Americans, according to a dimwitted, desperately unfunny movie by some left-wing clown, called VEEP, Dick Cheyney before he was a politician worked on the HT line. I always admired that man for his ability to fail upwards; ,a wonderful exemplar to the rest of us of the Peter Principle. One could say Dick Cheyney was what his daughter failed to become -- because she was too stubborn, too much the navel-watching queen, whereas he was adaptable and therefore a survivor.
>
Andre Jute
I'm not reckless. I'm just brave.
>

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 5:34:58 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/8/2022 7:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
> >> kids.
> >
> > I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
> >
> > Mercury poisoning:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
> > Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
> > <https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>
> >
> > For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
> > hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
> > sources.
> >
> > "Radioactive Drew"
> > <https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>
> >
> +1
>
> I've spent a lifetime around metallic mercury (OK not all
> that much), lead (a lot), asbestos dust, lacquer thinner,
> MEK, leaded premium gasoline, Camel straights and little
> Italian Parodi cigars and liquor (never to excess but some
> every day). I'm still not dead, unlike most of my friends,
> associates and lovers who drop with increasing frequency.

It isn't clear to me why some people are so short lived while other seem to live forever. Of course the long term effects of the covid-19 vaccination are yet to be felt

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 7:05:55 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 5:19:31 AM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:34:56 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> > >On 12/8/2022 7:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 19:29:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I assume most of us played with the stuff at least a little when we were
> > >>> kids.
> > >>
> > >> I'm no longer a kid and I'm still playing with the stuff (mercury):
> > >> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
> > >>
> > >> Mercury poisoning:
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning>
> > >> Methylmercury and dimethylmercury are the forms to avoid:
> > >> <https://www.epa.gov/mercury/health-effects-exposures-mercury>
> > >>
> > >> For a fun time terrorizing those with near terminal paranoia or
> > >> hypochondria, I demonstrate my Geiger counter and various radiation
> > >> sources.
> > >>
> > >> "Radioactive Drew"
> > >> <https://www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew/videos>
> >
> > >+1
> > >
> > >I've spent a lifetime around metallic mercury (OK not all
> > >that much), lead (a lot), asbestos dust, lacquer thinner,
> > >MEK, leaded premium gasoline, Camel straights and little
> > >Italian Parodi cigars and liquor (never to excess but some
> > >every day). I'm still not dead, unlike most of my friends,
> > >associates and lovers who drop with increasing frequency.
> > It's not fun if it also isn't somewhat dangerous.
> >
> > I have a good guess what is most likely to kill me. I will be in a
> > local Supermarket parking lot, run over by a clueless driver, who
> > believes that all the rules of the road are suspended in the parking
> > lot. I've come closer to meeting a premature demise in that parking
> > lot than any of the incredibly stupid stunts we all do a teenagers
> > because we all think we're going to live forever. I even have dreams
> > (nightmares) about it. When my life was orchestrated by my alarm
> > clock, I would also have dreams of driving off a Hwy 1 ocean cliff and
> > crashing into the rocks below. Fortunately, those dreams went away
> > after I disposed of the alarm clock.
> >
> > I missed some of the "hazardous" substances and activities you
> > mentioned. I've never smoked and I don't drink alcohol. I made up
> > for the deficiency by washing my hands in TCE (trichlorethylene) flux
> > remover, which was part of the PCB (printed circuit board) production
> > process in a small company. This was before the dangers were known.
> > There were five of us doing that. I'm the only one of the five who
> > did not develop kidney or liver cancer.
> >
> > Understanding the units of measure for radioactivity is a mess. I
> > still need a cheat sheet in order to keep them straight. I used to
> > give talks at the local high school on radioactivity until I was told
> > to stop because I was causing panic among a few of the parents.
> >
> > I also worked in the 2way radio business. In Los Angeles, the dark
> > humor was that we would kill off at least one technician every year
> > while working on the equipment (high voltage tubes), towers (fall from
> > height) or automotive (running wires under vehicle). That went away
> > when vacuum tubes were replaced by semiconductors and various
> > organizations started imposing safety standards on towers.
> >
> > I could go on with a long list of dangerous machinery and activities.
> > However, I'm dead tired from spending a cold afternoon working on a
> > friend's RV so they could leave on a vacation. Suffice to say that
> > the stuff I repair or rebuild usually has been marginally maintained.
> > There are plenty of ways to get hurt fixing chainsaws, generators,
> > trimmers, etc. The trick is that if you know how it works, you can
> > avoid the hazards. I try to avoid fixing things that I don't
> > understand, which I think has helped keep me alive and in one piece.
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
> >
> I'm so paranoid that in the fifteen years or so i built tube audio amplifiers with big broadcast valves, and consequently work with c2000V every day, I only got one shock, from brushing wires of my workbench while looking at the apprentice and telling him to clear the workspace after himself, every time. But the mains here is 220V, still a substantial jolt. The slack little bugger had left the lead plugged in and switched on... My colleague in charge of the appie and our engineering in general, went to speak to the kid's mother -- and discovered that his father electrocuted himself! We trained him so well that he's now a foreman on an HT feed line crew in Britain's industrial Midlands. I'll ask him if there's an official fatality statistic for the guys who work up these towers, the next time he comes to pay his respects.
> >
> For you Americans, according to a dimwitted, desperately unfunny movie by some left-wing clown, called VEEP, Dick Cheyney before he was a politician worked on the HT line. I always admired that man for his ability to fail upwards; ,a wonderful exemplar to the rest of us of the Peter Principle. One could say Dick Cheyney was what his daughter failed to become -- because she was too stubborn, too much the navel-watching queen, whereas he was adaptable and therefore a survivor.
> >
> Andre Jute
> I'm not reckless. I'm just brave.
> >

I worked on a system that charged very large (100 lb) capacitors at 100,000 VDC and discharged them at 5 million in series. Believe me, before you entered that tank that which was filled with PCB's that had to be pumped out for servicing, to insulate the ends of those capacitors, you reached in with a 10 foot rod and grounded the common charge line. At all times you left that connected and after you removed the capacitor, you put a 1/4" aluminum shorting bar across the charging posts. Which made it easier to lift an hundred lb capacitor onto the dolly outside of the tank. The other facility across the room had a larger array and discharged at 20 million volts.

Engaging in this sort of work gave you a healthy respect for the ability of a capacitor to retain a charge even after you had discharged it.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 07:48:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>It isn't clear to me why some people are so short lived while
>other seem to live forever. Of course the long term effects
>of the covid-19 vaccination are yet to be felt.

Among my useless activities, I was involved in various RF exposure
debates and a little research. Some old examples:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Cellular%20and%20cancer.pdf>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer-by-age-1992-2006.jpg>

Over the years, the proponents of "cell phones cause brain cancer"
were having a difficult time demonstrating a connection between cell
phone use and brain cancer. So, they adopted the mantra that it takes
a long time between exposure and when the cancer is found. Of course,
no details such as how long a delay were provided. We're now almost
40 years after the huge increase in cell phone use after about 1983,
and no hint of a cancer epidemic in sight.

You might find yourself in the same situation with your Covid-19
vaccination theory.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/9/2022 12:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 07:48:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It isn't clear to me why some people are so short lived while
>> other seem to live forever. Of course the long term effects
>> of the covid-19 vaccination are yet to be felt.
>
> Among my useless activities, I was involved in various RF exposure
> debates and a little research. Some old examples:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Cellular%20and%20cancer.pdf>
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg>
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer-by-age-1992-2006.jpg>
>
> Over the years, the proponents of "cell phones cause brain cancer"
> were having a difficult time demonstrating a connection between cell
> phone use and brain cancer. So, they adopted the mantra that it takes
> a long time between exposure and when the cancer is found. Of course,
> no details such as how long a delay were provided. We're now almost
> 40 years after the huge increase in cell phone use after about 1983,
> and no hint of a cancer epidemic in sight.
>
> You might find yourself in the same situation with your Covid-19
> vaccination theory.
>

I'm generally ignorant about mobile telephones but weren't
the 1980s models essentially like a marine radio (analog not
digital) ? I seriously considered one about 1988 but
couldn't justify the cost. Are the frequencies the same as
modern cell telephones?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 10:28:16 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/9/2022 12:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 07:48:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It isn't clear to me why some people are so short lived while
> >> other seem to live forever. Of course the long term effects
> >> of the covid-19 vaccination are yet to be felt.
> >
> > Among my useless activities, I was involved in various RF exposure
> > debates and a little research. Some old examples:
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Cellular%20and%20cancer.pdf>
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg>
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer-by-age-1992-2006.jpg>
> >
> > Over the years, the proponents of "cell phones cause brain cancer"
> > were having a difficult time demonstrating a connection between cell
> > phone use and brain cancer. So, they adopted the mantra that it takes
> > a long time between exposure and when the cancer is found. Of course,
> > no details such as how long a delay were provided. We're now almost
> > 40 years after the huge increase in cell phone use after about 1983,
> > and no hint of a cancer epidemic in sight.
> >
> > You might find yourself in the same situation with your Covid-19
> > vaccination theory.
> >
> I'm generally ignorant about mobile telephones but weren't
> the 1980s models essentially like a marine radio (analog not
> digital) ? I seriously considered one about 1988 but
> couldn't justify the cost. Are the frequencies the same as
> modern cell telephones?

Because the early phones were analog, the power was much higher than the present cell phones. My work in Cancer including using focused radio waves to destroy tumors is really not pertinent to bullshit coming from that maniacal medical expert Liebermann who is willing to talk about things he has absolutely no experience nor understanding of. Instead he quotes articles off of Google that will make points he wants to make and not expert information about anything. Let's just remember that he was so incompetent that he had to make a living replacing boards in production computers and cleaning ink jets in printers.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:28:16 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/9/2022 12:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 07:48:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It isn't clear to me why some people are so short lived while
> >> other seem to live forever. Of course the long term effects
> >> of the covid-19 vaccination are yet to be felt.
> >
> > Among my useless activities, I was involved in various RF exposure
> > debates and a little research. Some old examples:
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Cellular%20and%20cancer.pdf>
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg>
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer-by-age-1992-2006.jpg>
> >
> > Over the years, the proponents of "cell phones cause brain cancer"
> > were having a difficult time demonstrating a connection between cell
> > phone use and brain cancer. So, they adopted the mantra that it takes
> > a long time between exposure and when the cancer is found. Of course,
> > no details such as how long a delay were provided. We're now almost
> > 40 years after the huge increase in cell phone use after about 1983,
> > and no hint of a cancer epidemic in sight.
> >
> > You might find yourself in the same situation with your Covid-19
> > vaccination theory.
> >
> I'm generally ignorant about mobile telephones but weren't
> the 1980s models essentially like a marine radio (analog not
> digital) ? I seriously considered one about 1988 but
> couldn't justify the cost. Are the frequencies the same as
> modern cell telephones?
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
Trivia: Those 1980s Mitsubishi "mobile" phones with the long whip aerial and the hefty weight had a long, long afterlife as "legal" weapons for chuckers-out at night clubs; they were indestructible. I knew a chap who dropped out of college to fix those phones, and for years made a good living at it, so that the bruisers could go to court and claim they used them as phones, not primarily as weapons at the end of the aerial. He charged two hundred bucks to go to court and give the phone a character reference!
>
I had one of those Mitsubishi phones on my bike, for emergencies, but one day my technical representative in NY called me on it as i was riding my bike in the countryside, to tell me, "Hey, I'm out jogging in Central Park and I hope you're taking your exercise, because if you die, Warner will sue me.." I said, "This is my quiet time, asshole," and threw the phone into a convenient stream -- that's the great thing about Ireland, there's always a stream to hand to throw some irritating modern appliance into. The phone was fished out by some luck farmhand, and fixed by the fellow I knew, who called me to ask if my phone was stolen because he found my name on the inside of the cover.
>
Andre Jute
Did I say "indestructible"? Those phones had the half-life of a nuclear Lucifer.
>