On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
>><whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
>>
>>>with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58ae4had963l33pi0ml6@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>*SKIP*
>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
>>>>>>>> and have seen him.â? And that means that you ignore that at
>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
>>>>>Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
>>>>>Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
>>>>>the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>>>
>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
>>>
>>>(Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
>>>reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
>>>110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
>>>generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
>>when Christ was born :-)
>
>Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
>Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
>resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
>is much we humans do not know.

And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)

But, on the other hand... who cares?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 11:43:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/2/2023 4:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the
>>>> differences between John and the three earlier synoptic
>>>> gospels?
>>>>
>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling
>>> contradictions within the various works of Karl Marx,
>>> founder of another religion.
>>> --
>> Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>
>I never claimed to be an expert at those languages. One does not need to
>be such an expert to understand the Gospels' discrepancies.
>
>One does have to keep learning, though, which requires a willingness to
>learn. You've never shown much willingness to learn.
>
>But back to my question, please. What ARE your thoughts on the
>differences and conflicts in those Gospels? (Surely you don't need me to
>provide examples, right?)

I have read and believe, that if Yeshua, Abu al-Qasim Muhammad ibn
Abd Allah ibn Abd al-Mualib ibn Hashim, and Siddattha Gotama, were to
"return to earth" today they wouldn't recognize the religions that
have been derived from their teachings.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:17:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
>>><whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
>>>
>>>>with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58ae4had963l33pi0ml6@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>*SKIP*
>>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
>>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
>>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
>>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
>>>>>>>>> and have seen him.â? And that means that you ignore that at
>>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
>>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
>>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
>>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
>>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
>>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
>>>>>>Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
>>>>>>Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
>>>>>>the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>>>>
>>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
>>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
>>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
>>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
>>>>
>>>>(Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
>>>>reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
>>>>110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
>>>>generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
>>>when Christ was born :-)
>>
>>Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
>>Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
>>resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
>>is much we humans do not know.
>
>And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
>dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
>catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)
>
>But, on the other hand... who cares?

Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill
and eat each other....

On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 07:45:55 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 2:33:16 AM UTC-8, Eric Pozharski wrote:
>> with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58a...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
>> >>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
>> >>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> *SKIP*
>> >>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
>> >>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
>> >>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
>> >>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
>> >>>>> and have seen him.†And that means that you ignore that at
>> >>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
>> >>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
>> >>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>> >>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
>> >>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
>> >>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
>> >>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
>> >>Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
>> >>Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
>> >>the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>>
>> > Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
>> > I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
>> > written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
>> > between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
>> (Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
>> reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
>> 110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
>> generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
>> > The gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, referred to as the synoptic
>> > Gospels because they include many of the same stories, stand in
>> > contrast to John, whose content is largely distinct. If three Gospels
>> > all tell essentially the same thing and one is different then which
>> > was correct?
>> To put it into perspective, which Hansel and Gretel is correct? This is
>> closest to list of hansel-and-gretels I've found (wikipedia has realy
>> failed me on this one):
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_based_on_Hansel_and_Gretel
>>
>> p.s. My favored is 'Hoodwinked Too! Hoods vs. Evil', just in case.
>>
>> --
>> Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
>> Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
>
>John never bothered to read the Bible. He is not a Christian and only uses Google to look up things because he likes to look like an authority so that he can treat you badly. He has absolutely no understanding of oral tradition or of how accurate down to even the pronunciation it is. 80 years or 160 years was insufficient for the words of the saints to be misunderstood and the translations of the Greek to Latin introduced far more errors than the oral tradition.
>
>John has the habit of talking about things he hasn't an inkling of knowledge of.

"Treat you badly"???

You mean telling the truth and exposing your lies is "treating you
badly"?

A strange world you live in.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/3/2023 4:41 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:17:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
>>>> <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58ae4had963l33pi0ml6@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
>>>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *SKIP*
>>>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
>>>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
>>>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
>>>>>>>>>> and have seen him.â? And that means that you ignore that at
>>>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
>>>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
>>>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>>>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
>>>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
>>>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
>>>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
>>>>>>> Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
>>>>>>> Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
>>>>>>> the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
>>>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
>>>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
>>>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
>>>>> reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
>>>>> 110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
>>>>> generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
>>>> when Christ was born :-)
>>>
>>> Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
>>> Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
>>> resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
>>> is much we humans do not know.
>>
>> And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
>> dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
>> catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)
>>
>> But, on the other hand... who cares?
>
> Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill
> and eat each other....
>

Could be.

Or aliens didn't like lizard flavor so they eliminated
those. They'll be back later to try the latest dominant
species...

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:48:06 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/3/2023 4:41 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:17:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
> >>>> <why...@pozharski.name> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58a...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
> >>>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *SKIP*
> >>>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
> >>>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
> >>>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
> >>>>>>>>>> and have seen him.ā? And that means that you ignore that at
> >>>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
> >>>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
> >>>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
> >>>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
> >>>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
> >>>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
> >>>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
> >>>>>>> Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
> >>>>>>> Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
> >>>>>>> the absolute meaning of the gospels.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
> >>>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
> >>>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
> >>>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
> >>>>> reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
> >>>>> 110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
> >>>>> generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
> >>>> when Christ was born :-)
> >>>
> >>> Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
> >>> Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
> >>> resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
> >>> is much we humans do not know.
> >>
> >> And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
> >> dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
> >> catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)
> >>
> >> But, on the other hand... who cares?
> >
> > Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill
> > and eat each other....
> >
> Could be.
>
> Or aliens didn't like lizard flavor so they eliminated
> those. They'll be back later to try the latest dominant
> species...
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
We don't need no steeenking aliens to introduce us to weird foods. In Japan you can buy chocolate-covered ants, in different flavours, including some vivid red ants that taste like pepper. -- AJ
>

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 5:14:20 PM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Tommy also seems to be operating under some misconception that the gospels were transcribed from oral tradition. I guess he never bothered to do any real research into bible origins [3]
> > which were originally in Judeo dialects. These were told word for word to Greek scholars who committed them to the written language.

He's probably confused the Old Testament (sorry for using a Christian centric term - the Torah maybe?) with the gospels. As I understand it the OT did exist in oral form for some thousands of years before being written down.

He's heard something about the Septuagint, an early Greek version of those oral tales, but not comprehended it. If Jesus was literate, which is unlikely, the Septuagint would be what he had access to.

> Except that the 'original' (as they can be) texts were written in Koine Greek - Judean dialects were Hebrew and Aramaic (Jesus was Aramaic). So now we have the first challenge - translating from the Aramaic spoken language to Koine Greek. - let alone then translating to Latin in later centuries. But that's moot, because tommy is still assuming oral tradition here - which he is wrong about.
>

On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 17:15:59 -0800 (PST), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 5:14:20 PM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Tommy also seems to be operating under some misconception that the gospels were transcribed from oral tradition. I guess he never bothered to do any real research into bible origins [3]
>> > which were originally in Judeo dialects. These were told word for word to Greek scholars who committed them to the written language.
>
>He's probably confused the Old Testament (sorry for using a Christian centric term - the Torah maybe?) with the gospels. As I understand it the OT did exist in oral form for some thousands of years before being written down.
>
>He's heard something about the Septuagint, an early Greek version of those oral tales, but not comprehended it. If Jesus was literate, which is unlikely, the Septuagint would be what he had access to.
>

I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
Said to be written in Hebrew.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, December 30, 2022 at 4:43:34 AM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> "I have no need of that hypothesis" - French mathematician Pierre-Simon Laplace to Napoleon in 1814.
>
On another forum, there was a clown who between bragging about his MSE from Stanford wittered on about irrelevant LaPlace transforms in an effort to put down the peasants (who all built better amps than his dull homage to the tube manufacturer's spec sheet -- intended to make the valves last forever). He'd start foaming at the mouth if I as much asked whether AfterThought Laplace*, standing in the Place de la Place, wasn't getting a bit lonely, and shouldn't he be joining his hero. When this clown, one Henry Pasternak or Pasternack, more easily remembered as Pompass Plodnick, was accused by everyone of lying on a professional matter to a newbie, his excuse was the classic, "I did it in my zeal to flame Andre." We shouldn't be too hard on him: the RBT Gang of Thugs lie in their zeal to flame Tom and me, all the time, all day every day; Krygowski has been lying for all the fifteen years of so I've been on RBT. In any event, some of the same thicko clowns that were on RAT (appropriately named! -- I took bets with my peers in my poker school on where I could make them run in the Jute Online Motivational Laboratory and Maze), like the presumptuous Ron Bales and the useless milksop Ralph Barone, are on RBT too.
>
*My hero in electronics, for I have many heroes to reflect varied interests, is Fritz Langford-Smith, who compiled the thermionic tube engineering bible, The Radiation Designer's Handbook, to the current edition of which I published an outline for audiophile tubies in Glass Audio, still available here:
https://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS%20RDH.html
For the record, the other bible in tube electronics, but much more difficult to use because it was compiled after WW2 by physicists who spent the war working urgently on electronic communications and is merely a compilation of knowledge (actually something of a wonder that it is usefully organised once you grasp the editorial staff's mindset) so that it shouldn't be lost when they returned from MIT, where they'd been gathered under wartime auspices, to their respective laboratories and colleges, is MIT Radiation Laboratory Series, Vol 18, Vacuum Tube Amplifiers. And, finally, of course, Nicola Tesla, who should be the hero of every boy with an electronics set.
>
Andre Jute
JUTE ON AMPS
https://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS.htm
DIY TUBE AMPLIFIERS AND SPEAKERS
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
>

Dear Andre: is the name "Pompass Plodnick" copyrighted? I would like to use the term in my discussions with my buddies concerning amateur radio. Would you mind if I adopted it?

"The dinosaurs died 66 million years ago"

not the winged dinosaurs, though

"Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill and eat each other...."

Remember, Art Bell said that the green-blue aliens are nice, but the gray aliens are real bastards

"Or aliens didn't like lizard flavor so they eliminated those."

Well then there must be something wrong with the damned aliens, because chicken tastes just great! It tastes even better when I remember that I can no longer afford beef. Those damned aliens must be defective units!

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> Said to be written in Hebrew.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."

Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.

My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 11:59:55 AM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> Dear Andre: is the name "Pompass Plodnick" copyrighted? I would like to use the term in my discussions with my buddies concerning amateur radio. Would you mind if I adopted it?
>
Philately gets you a lot of stamps. Heh-heh! Of course you may use the name "Pompass Plodnick". And may the recipient have much joy of it. -- AJ
>

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 3:42:54 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:48:06 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/3/2023 4:41 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > > On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:17:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
> > >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
> > >>>> <why...@pozharski.name> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58a...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
> > >>>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *SKIP*
> > >>>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
> > >>>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
> > >>>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
> > >>>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
> > >>>>>>>>>> and have seen him.ā? And that means that you ignore that at
> > >>>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
> > >>>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
> > >>>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
> > >>>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
> > >>>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
> > >>>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
> > >>>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
> > >>>>>>> Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
> > >>>>>>> Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
> > >>>>>>> the absolute meaning of the gospels.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
> > >>>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
> > >>>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
> > >>>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> (Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
> > >>>>> reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
> > >>>>> 110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one...two
> > >>>>> generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
> > >>>> when Christ was born :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
> > >>> Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
> > >>> resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
> > >>> is much we humans do not know.
> > >>
> > >> And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
> > >> dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
> > >> catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)
> > >>
> > >> But, on the other hand... who cares?
> > >
> > > Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill
> > > and eat each other....
> > >
> > Could be.
> >
> > Or aliens didn't like lizard flavor so they eliminated
> > those. They'll be back later to try the latest dominant
> > species...
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> We don't need no steeenking aliens to introduce us to weird foods. In Japan you can buy chocolate-covered ants, in different flavours, including some vivid red ants that taste like pepper. -- AJ
> >

At one time I presented the math here that proved that intelligent life anywhere else in the universe at any time frame with Earth would be statistically so improbable as to be impossible. But people like to believe that there is life everywhere and intelligent life flying trillions of light years through space to eat humans. Since it is entirely against the laws of physics they simply say that physics doesn't count and you can fly great multiples the speed of light. Since that STILL can't work, they simply ignore it.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> > BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> > https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> > Said to be written in Hebrew.
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John B.
> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
>
> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
>
> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.

How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:37:55 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> > > BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> > > https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> > > Said to be written in Hebrew.
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > John B.
> > Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
> >
> > Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> > No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
> >
> > My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.

lol...
"Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. "
"Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors."

Yes Tim, tommy really _is_ that stupid.....

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:37:55 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> > > BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> > > https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> > > Said to be written in Hebrew.
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > John B.
> > Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
> >
> > Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> > No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
> >
> > My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.

You have an apparently half understood set of understandings that I can't match to any denomination's theology - certainly none of the traditional mainstream ones, but not even the usual independent Bible church fundagelic stuff. Do you just make this stuff up?

And more on topic: Didn't Paul write some letters? 13 of them attributed, and pretty certainly 7 of those actually Paul's? They are all written to various communities of faith, do you think these were read out loud as I've been told, or merely passed as oral tales, or maybe not really used at all?

I will give you points for separating the gospels from the letters. The letters could have been available to some communities in the early church, as their addresses indicate, because Paul died in 64, but the gospels date to 110 and later, so there is a considerable gap between.

On 1/4/2023 12:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity.

Shaking my head. Such ignorance!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 9:59:32 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:37:55 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > > I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> > > > BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> > > > https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> > > > Said to be written in Hebrew.
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > John B.
> > > Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
> > >
> > > Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> > > No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
> > How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
> You have an apparently half understood set of understandings that I can't match to any denomination's theology - certainly none of the traditional mainstream ones, but not even the usual independent Bible church fundagelic stuff. Do you just make this stuff up?
>
> And more on topic: Didn't Paul write some letters? 13 of them attributed, and pretty certainly 7 of those actually Paul's? They are all written to various communities of faith, do you think these were read out loud as I've been told, or merely passed as oral tales, or maybe not really used at all?
>
> I will give you points for separating the gospels from the letters. The letters could have been available to some communities in the early church, as their addresses indicate, because Paul died in 64, but the gospels date to 110 and later, so there is a considerable gap between.

https://thecatholictruth.org/where-did-the-bible-come-from/#:~:text=The%20official%20formation%20of%20the%20New%20Testament%20and,so%2C%20discussions%20took%20place%20and%20doubts%20still%20circulated.

I will ask you how the Bible was saved and carried on when almost no one was literate and most of those that were literate were Pagans in the employ of kings such as the Caesars when anyone caught with any Christian documents, EVEN a cross, was immediately put to death? Why would you deny oral tradition when even American Indians use it?

I hope you realize that this means that there was NO OTHER WAY of carrying on the Gospels save with oral tradition since Christianity was illegal in Rome until around 300 AD.

Exactly why are you pretending otherwise? Why do you believe that there were Christian Shahmen recording anything and everything that occurred in history?

On 1/4/2023 11:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
>>> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
>>> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
>>> Said to be written in Hebrew.
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
>>
>> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
>> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
>>
>> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
>
> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
>

Literate Romans and educated people throughout the Empire
commonly read, conversed and wrote in Greek. Latin was used
in official proceedings and also in popular literature,
plays etc.

Aramaic was the local tongue at the time in the Levant.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 11:22:23 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/4/2023 11:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> >>> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> >>> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> >>> Said to be written in Hebrew.
> >>> --
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> John B.
> >> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
> >>
> >> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> >> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
> >>
> >> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
> >
> > How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
> >
> Literate Romans and educated people throughout the Empire
> commonly read, conversed and wrote in Greek. Latin was used
> in official proceedings and also in popular literature,
> plays etc.
>
> Aramaic was the local tongue at the time in the Levant.

Common use of writing didn't really immerge until after 300 AD and for a long time it was all handled by scribes and not common people.

https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019.04.45#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20articles%20are%20concerned%20with,expanse%2C%20and%20over%20a%20timespan%20of%20many%20centuries.

"Rufino’s subject is bronze tablets, mostly fragments of legal inscriptions. They are remnants of laws displayed in public; a fact that does not necessarily imply that people were able to read them. Their function was ideological rather than functional: their presence was a grandiloquent reminder of the ubiquity of Roman power."

On 1/4/2023 1:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 11:22:23 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/4/2023 11:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
>>>>> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
>>>>> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
>>>>> Said to be written in Hebrew.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
>>>>
>>>> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
>>>> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
>>>
>>> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
>>>
>> Literate Romans and educated people throughout the Empire
>> commonly read, conversed and wrote in Greek. Latin was used
>> in official proceedings and also in popular literature,
>> plays etc.
>>
>> Aramaic was the local tongue at the time in the Levant.
>
> Common use of writing didn't really immerge until after 300 AD and for a long time it was all handled by scribes and not common people.
>
> https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019.04.45#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20articles%20are%20concerned%20with,expanse%2C%20and%20over%20a%20timespan%20of%20many%20centuries.
>
> "Rufino’s subject is bronze tablets, mostly fragments of legal inscriptions. They are remnants of laws displayed in public; a fact that does not necessarily imply that people were able to read them. Their function was ideological rather than functional: their presence was a grandiloquent reminder of the ubiquity of Roman power."
>

Who's Cicero? Chopped liver?

I have read voluminously from before and through The
Republic into the pre Christian empire (In translation
mostly, my Latin's halting and I can't manage more than a
few words in Greek).

Gaius Iulio himself, Cicero, Seutonius, Tacitus, Juvenal,
Titus Livius, Josephus, Polybios, Herodotus, Plato... all
before 300AD.

Hey I bet even you read Euclid in the 7th grade!

pfffft.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 09:28:10 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 3:42:54 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:48:06 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>> > On 1/3/2023 4:41 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> > > On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:17:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:01:14 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> > >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:46:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 09:12:32 +0000, Eric Pozharski
>> > >>>> <why...@pozharski.name> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> with <3cr6rhdm75uefi58a...@4ax.com> John B wrote:
>> > >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 13:09:37 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> > >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:46:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 11:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2023 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 4:20:23 PM UTC-8,
>> > >>>>>>>>>> timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 12:04:22 PM UTC-5,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> *SKIP*
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Tim, what you chose to believe is your choice In John 14, Jesus
>> > >>>>>>>>>> said to His disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
>> > >>>>>>>>>> No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know
>> > >>>>>>>>>> me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
>> > >>>>>>>>>> and have seen him.?? And that means that you ignore that at
>> > >>>>>>>>>> your own peril. Inventing words to put in my mouth when you have
>> > >>>>>>>>>> never read the Bible does you no justice.
>> > >>>>>>>>> So Tom, what are your thoughts on the differences and
>> > >>>>>>>>> inconsistencies in the four gospels? Especially the differences
>> > >>>>>>>>> between John and the three earlier synoptic gospels?
>> > >>>>>>>> And after that assignment, start in on reconciling contradictions
>> > >>>>>>>> within the various works of Karl Marx, founder of another religion.
>> > >>>>>>> Frank is an absolute expert at translating Ancient Greek and Ancient
>> > >>>>>>> Latin and hence can positively tell you that there are differences in
>> > >>>>>>> the absolute meaning of the gospels.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Well Tommy, I don' know whether Frank can translate Greek or not, but
>> > >>>>>> I do know that the four gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were not
>> > >>>>>> written by those who names were used and the earliest was written
>> > >>>>>> between 60 and 100 years after Christ died.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> (Disclaimer, not even close to be scholar, just another wikipedia
>> > >>>>> reader.) Correction, "gospels were probably written between AD 66 and
>> > >>>>> 110" would be "35 and 80 years after Chirst died". Thus, for one..two
>> > >>>>> generations works in question have been an oral tradition.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Yes, that is correct. although in mitigation nobody actually knows
>> > >>>> when Christ was born :-)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Embellishment has always been a problem for serious historians.
>> > >>> Arguments over the stories about historical figures are seldom
>> > >>> resolved. One of the things I believe to be "true fact" is that there
>> > >>> is much we humans do not know.
>> > >>
>> > >> And a lot of what we do not know is actually meaningless. The
>> > >> dinosaurs died 66 million years ago and "The exact nature of this
>> > >> catastrophic event is still open to scientific debate." :-)
>> > >>
>> > >> But, on the other hand... who cares?
>> > >
>> > > Might be good to know if it done by aliens as a warning not to kill
>> > > and eat each other....
>> > >
>> > Could be.
>> >
>> > Or aliens didn't like lizard flavor so they eliminated
>> > those. They'll be back later to try the latest dominant
>> > species...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andrew Muzi
>> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> >
>> We don't need no steeenking aliens to introduce us to weird foods. In Japan you can buy chocolate-covered ants, in different flavours, including some vivid red ants that taste like pepper. -- AJ
>> >
>
>At one time I presented the math here that proved that intelligent life anywhere else in the universe at any time frame with Earth would be statistically so improbable as to be impossible. But people like to believe that there is life everywhere and intelligent life flying trillions of light years through space to eat humans. Since it is entirely against the laws of physics they simply say that physics doesn't count and you can fly great multiples the speed of light. Since that STILL can't work, they simply ignore it.

Yet another example of insanity from out very own Fool, Tommy Kunich.

The poster talks about chocolate covered ants in Japan and Tommy Boy
rants about " intelligent life anywhere else in the universe at any
time frame with Earth would be statistically so improbable"

Only in Tommy's fevered mind does What has "intelligent life" relate
to chocolate covered ants?

Insanity in action.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:04:56 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/4/2023 1:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 11:22:23 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 1/4/2023 11:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
> >>>>> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
> >>>>> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
> >>>>> Said to be written in Hebrew.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John B.
> >>>> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
> >>>>
> >>>> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
> >>>> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
> >>>>
> >>>> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
> >>>
> >>> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors.. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
> >>>
> >> Literate Romans and educated people throughout the Empire
> >> commonly read, conversed and wrote in Greek. Latin was used
> >> in official proceedings and also in popular literature,
> >> plays etc.
> >>
> >> Aramaic was the local tongue at the time in the Levant.
> >
> > Common use of writing didn't really immerge until after 300 AD and for a long time it was all handled by scribes and not common people.
> >
> > https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019.04.45#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20articles%20are%20concerned%20with,expanse%2C%20and%20over%20a%20timespan%20of%20many%20centuries.
> >
> > "Rufino’s subject is bronze tablets, mostly fragments of legal inscriptions. They are remnants of laws displayed in public; a fact that does not necessarily imply that people were able to read them. Their function was ideological rather than functional: their presence was a grandiloquent reminder of the ubiquity of Roman power."
> >
>
> Who's Cicero? Chopped liver?
>
> I have read voluminously from before and through The
> Republic into the pre Christian empire (In translation
> mostly, my Latin's halting and I can't manage more than a
> few words in Greek).
>
> Gaius Iulio himself, Cicero, Seutonius, Tacitus, Juvenal,
> Titus Livius, Josephus, Polybios, Herodotus, Plato... all
> before 300AD.
>
> Hey I bet even you read Euclid in the 7th grade!
>
> pfffft.

None of the classes I took in school moved into geometry which would have been college path. But I did study Geometry and Trigonometry on my own because it had practical value all the way from land to electronics though at the time it was all tube electronics and you have to be able to use geometry to measure the delay time from signal to response. Seems to me that the book was by someone named Weil. Me and the local electronics nut had a joke about "Get Weil Cards"

On 1/4/2023 2:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:04:56 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/4/2023 1:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 11:22:23 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/4/2023 11:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 5:02:28 AM UTC-8, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:01:45 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> I read that the earliest copy of the Ten commandments, dated in the 30
>>>>>>> BC - 1 BC era, can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls library.
>>>>>>> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/view-a-2000-year-old-scroll-of-the-ten-commandments-online/
>>>>>>> Said to be written in Hebrew.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>> Very interesting site, thanks. I'm going to quote a paragraph from the researchers to show some of the difficulties in looking for clues to the "originals."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quote starts********Deuteronomy is one of the books most represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the answer to your question is a bit complicated for segments from all the chapters 1-34 were found but in 30 different manuscripts and in hundreds of fragments.
>>>>>> No one manuscript has the entire text in it and most chapters are missing verses. Scholars think that perhaps some of the fragments were originally part of complete manuscripts.*********quote ends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My understanding is that in early Christian communities most people were not literate, but gospels and Pauline letters were not oral tradition but were read out loud to the group by a leader who could read.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you believe that they read the gospels before they were translated into a language that could be understood? Greek was dead before the early Christians were practicing Christianity. Oral traditions have been shown everywhere in the world and passed text down word for word without errors. Most of the Talmud was passed on via oral tradition and early Jewish writing was so varied that it would only be read by the authors themselves.
>>>>>
>>>> Literate Romans and educated people throughout the Empire
>>>> commonly read, conversed and wrote in Greek. Latin was used
>>>> in official proceedings and also in popular literature,
>>>> plays etc.
>>>>
>>>> Aramaic was the local tongue at the time in the Levant.
>>>
>>> Common use of writing didn't really immerge until after 300 AD and for a long time it was all handled by scribes and not common people.
>>>
>>> https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019.04.45#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20articles%20are%20concerned%20with,expanse%2C%20and%20over%20a%20timespan%20of%20many%20centuries.
>>>
>>> "Rufino’s subject is bronze tablets, mostly fragments of legal inscriptions. They are remnants of laws displayed in public; a fact that does not necessarily imply that people were able to read them. Their function was ideological rather than functional: their presence was a grandiloquent reminder of the ubiquity of Roman power."
>>>
>>
>> Who's Cicero? Chopped liver?
>>
>> I have read voluminously from before and through The
>> Republic into the pre Christian empire (In translation
>> mostly, my Latin's halting and I can't manage more than a
>> few words in Greek).
>>
>> Gaius Iulio himself, Cicero, Seutonius, Tacitus, Juvenal,
>> Titus Livius, Josephus, Polybios, Herodotus, Plato... all
>> before 300AD.
>>
>> Hey I bet even you read Euclid in the 7th grade!
>>
>> pfffft.
>
> None of the classes I took in school moved into geometry which would have been college path. But I did study Geometry and Trigonometry on my own because it had practical value all the way from land to electronics though at the time it was all tube electronics and you have to be able to use geometry to measure the delay time from signal to response. Seems to me that the book was by someone named Weil. Me and the local electronics nut had a joke about "Get Weil Cards"
>

Well, he's been well read for 2300 years and still in print!

https://www.alibris.com/Euclid-Books-I-II-Classic-Reprint-Charles-L-Dodgson/book/32319980?matches=5

Few authors can make that claim.

Back to your recent comments, the Romans of the Republic and
Empire were master engineers with large numbers of men
educated in Euclid and other works.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971