On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > >
> > > > > :)
> > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > Enjoy:
> >
> > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.

Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > Enjoy:
> > >
> > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.

I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > Enjoy:
> > >
> > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.

I thought we were discussing Poe's psychological health.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:15:07 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > Enjoy:
> > > >
> > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> I thought we were discussing Poe's psychological health.

All that we know of Poe’s psychological health is reflected in his work.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > Enjoy:
> > > >
> > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.

I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.

You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.

Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
>> > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
>> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
>> > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
>> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
>> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
>> > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
>> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
>> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > :)
>> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
>> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
>> > > > > Enjoy:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
>> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
>> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
>> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
>> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
>> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.

> You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.

Okay, interesting observation, Corey.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> >> > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > :)
> >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> >> > > > > Enjoy:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
>
> > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> Okay, interesting observation, Corey.

You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:23:21 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:15:07 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > I thought we were discussing Poe's psychological health.
> All that we know of Poe’s psychological health is reflected in his work.

That's not correct. We know about him through his letters and from the recollections of those who knew him. Granted, each must be taken cum grano salis, however, the general consensus is that he was an intelligent, industrious, gentleman who genuinely loved his wife, and who (unlike the characters in his stories) liked to amuse his wife and Mother-in-law with silly jokes, and would play leap-frog in the yard. He had a pet black cat which he also loved (again, unlike his protagonist in "The Black Cat"), and even though he was poor and his clothes were well worn, he always kept them neat and in repair.

Drinking was a social expectation (especially in the South, where it was considered an insult to refuse a drink from one's host), and Poe's constitution was such that he could become inebriated from a single glass of wine. He was neither a heavy, nor a regular, drinker.

His tales and poems explore various morbid states of mind which readers mistakenly attribute to him. But nothing could be further from the truth. He was a brilliant, creative writer who was struggling to support himself and his family solely on money made from his writing/editorial positions.

His foster parents had raised him to lead the life of a privileged gentleman, then cut him off without a cent. He was a sensitive, cultured, well-educated, southern gentleman and might have been the protagonist of a Dickens novel (e.g., Pip and David Copperfield).

I like the modern conception of Poe as a dark, brooding, gloomy, drunken, tortured, possibly psychotic genius, as it appeals to my gothic nature -- but Poe, by most accounts, was nothing of the sort.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:35:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.

As previously noted, Poe was a reluctant social drinker with an extremely low tolerance for alcohol -- hence his reputation as a drunkard.

I have never had any issues with alcohol. It tastes delicious, feels good, and helps to get my creative juices flowing. It doesn't make me nauseous, rarely gets to the point where I'm slurring my speech or woozy, doesn't give me hangovers, doesn't make me loud, violent or obnoxious, and since I don't drink and drive, places no one in any danger. I don't see any problem. Some people smoke pot (ahem!) and some people have a drink or seven at night.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion..
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> >
> > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.

Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.

The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:20:18 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:23:21 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:15:07 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > I thought we were discussing Poe's psychological health.
> > All that we know of Poe’s psychological health is reflected in his work.
> That's not correct. We know about him through his letters and from the recollections of those who knew him. Granted, each must be taken cum grano salis, however, the general consensus is that he was an intelligent, industrious, gentleman who genuinely loved his wife, and who (unlike the characters in his stories) liked to amuse his wife and Mother-in-law with silly jokes, and would play leap-frog in the yard. He had a pet black cat which he also loved (again, unlike his protagonist in "The Black Cat"), and even though he was poor and his clothes were well worn, he always kept them neat and in repair.
>
> Drinking was a social expectation (especially in the South, where it was considered an insult to refuse a drink from one's host), and Poe's constitution was such that he could become inebriated from a single glass of wine. He was neither a heavy, nor a regular, drinker.
>
> His tales and poems explore various morbid states of mind which readers mistakenly attribute to him. But nothing could be further from the truth. He was a brilliant, creative writer who was struggling to support himself and his family solely on money made from his writing/editorial positions.
>
> His foster parents had raised him to lead the life of a privileged gentleman, then cut him off without a cent. He was a sensitive, cultured, well-educated, southern gentleman and might have been the protagonist of a Dickens novel (e.g., Pip and David Copperfield).
>
> I like the modern conception of Poe as a dark, brooding, gloomy, drunken, tortured, possibly psychotic genius, as it appeals to my gothic nature -- but Poe, by most accounts, was nothing of the sort.

Excuse me, if you think I disagree with your assessment of the man.
In fact, I agree whole heartedly. The person you describe, and recounted
by his contemporaries (including Longfellow) was a respected family man,
not a recalcitrant and hate filled writer in search of rhetorical vengeance..

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:27:34 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:35:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> As previously noted, Poe was a reluctant social drinker with an extremely low tolerance for alcohol -- hence his reputation as a drunkard.
>
> I have never had any issues with alcohol. It tastes delicious, feels good, and helps to get my creative juices flowing. It doesn't make me nauseous, rarely gets to the point where I'm slurring my speech or woozy, doesn't give me hangovers, doesn't make me loud, violent or obnoxious, and since I don't drink and drive, places no one in any danger. I don't see any problem. Some people smoke pot (ahem!) and some people have a drink or seven at night.

Stop making excuses. I don’t care.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > >
> > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
>
> The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.

Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.

Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.

Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.

Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.

His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > >
> > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
>
> The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.

What’s the problem?

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success..
> > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > >
> > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >
> > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
>
> Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
>
> Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
>
> Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
>
> His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success..
> > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > >
> > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >
> > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.

Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.

Why should you flame anyone over the fact?

> Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
>
> Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
>
> Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
>
> His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > >
> > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
>
> Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> >
> > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature..
> >
> > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> >
> > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > >
> > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> >
> > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > >
> > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > >
> > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones..
> > >
> > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > >
> > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> >
> > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> >
> > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature..
> >
> > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> >
> > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:58:28 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success..
> > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > >
> > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >
> > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> What’s the problem?

It isn't obvious?

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > >
> > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> >
> > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > >
> > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > >
> > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones..
> > >
> > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > >
> > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > >
> > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > >
> > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > >
> > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones..
> > >
> > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
>
> More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > >
> > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > >
> > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > >
> > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > >
> > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones..
> > >
> > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
>
> More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:13:38 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:09:39 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:07:06 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night.."
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > Not really, as with every article on Jerry Lee Lewis (look it up) it can't be avoided that Edgar Allan Poe, legally or not, was a pedophile.
> > >
> > > Why should you flame anyone over the fact?
> > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > >
> > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > >
> > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > >
> > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > It’s simply not true. You’re intentionally mischaracterizing the known facts.
> What's not true? That Poe was a devoted husband,