Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
> nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> That reminds me. As much as I hate to say it as it’s still the second best
>>> Star Trek series:
>>> Deep Space 9
>>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have Ben
>>> Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best episode
>>> "The visitor".
>>> What the hell were they thinking?
>>
>> I must have missed this.
>
> Actually, they replaced the actress playing Jadzia and effectively made her a
> new char,

No. Jadzia is the host, DAX is the ancient Symbiot. They killed Jadzia and
put the host in a new body.

Gul Dukat went insane and contacted the anti-Prophets to destroy the
> Wormhole (or vica versa), and Cisco joined the Prophets in the Wormhole for an
> indefinite period of time, but time doesn't exist there, so we don;t know what
> that means.

Sisko committed suicide by grabbing Dukat and throwing them both into a
lava pit

>
>>> Oh! Knight Rider. ‘Nuff said.
>
> How so? It was always a cheesy show.

You never saw the final season? KITT fell into the hands of a bunch of
street chopper kids and ceased to be invulnerable so they were able to cut
it up and make all sorts of stupid fins that stuck out in every direction
when it went into “super pursuit mode“
It wasn’t even the same model year car.

https://media.techeblog.com/images/kitt-super-pursuit-mode.jpg

>
> --
> Let's go Brandon!
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 2023-02-22 16:30:00 +0000, anim8rfsk said:

> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-02-21 20:03:19 +0000, shawn said:
>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 11:52:49 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This article just came up in my newsfeed and it was very much on-topic
>>>>>> for this newsgroup:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishabassi/popular-tv-shows-people-hated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For what it's worth, I actually stayed to the end of some of the series
>>>>>> on their list, including Orange is the New Black, Weeds, and Dexter. But
>>>>>> I only ever watched two episodes of Walking Dead and was bored to tears
>>>>>> for both of those so never went past that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, what would be on YOUR list of shows that you loved and then hated?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have the time to think of 25 out of all the shows I've ever seen
>>>>>> and any list I made would probably change any given day but I'll mention
>>>>>> a few that come to mind off the top of my head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>>
>>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>>
>>> Especially after spending so long trying to sell the viewers on how
>>> there is a plan that will bring all that we saw together in the end.
>>> It was a weak hand waving ending that didn't justify the hype.
>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>>
>>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>>
>>>> On my list would be:
>>>>
>>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>>> even finish it!
>>>>
>>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>>> awful.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I can agree with this as someone that watched every episode.
>>>
>>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>>
>>> I honestly can't remember enough of how the story went to say. So it
>>> likely wasn't horrible enough to leave an indelible mark in my memory,
>>> but also was not good enough for me to remember it either. Mostly I
>>> just remember Lauren Lee Smith as being awfully cute.
>>>
>>>
>>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>>
>>> Never did watch this show.
>>>
>>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>>
>>> ANDROMEDA would be another one that followed the EFC development.
>>> Weren't both of them being impacted by Tribune? Though I suppose
>>> ANDROMEDA was hurt more by Kevin Sorbo than any other production
>>> issues.
>>
>> Yes, in fact "Andromeda" is the prototypical example of this - like I
>> said elsewhere, I dropped the show cold when they wrote out Tyr, and
>> never looked back.
>>
>> But it was declining fast even before Tyr left...
>
> That reminds me. As much as I hate to say it as it’s still the second best
> Star Trek series:
> Deep Space 9
> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have Ben
> Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best episode
> “the visitor“
> What the hell were they thinking?
>
> And try to imagine how much my spellchecker hated that last paragraph, and
> how many times I had to fix the names and it probably still won’t come
> through right.
>
> Oh! Knight Rider. ‘Nuff said.
>
> And perhaps the most egregious example of them all:
> AIRWOLF
> For that one we have no one but Canadia to blame.
> “Let’s underbid the Americans to make another season and save the money by
> not having the helicopter, eh?“
>
>> Basically, nearly any show that ran too many seasons will end up in
>> this category.
>>
>> "Gossip Girl" (the original) and definitely PLL (Bitches!) belong in
>> here too. Maybe "The OC" as well.
>
> I am always fascinated by the shows that turn to crap and then managed to
> get better. There are so few of them!
>
> LOST IN SPACE (1964). Its second season is unwatchable, but there are a few
> gems in season three.
>
> THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E. Season three was the goofy Batman inspired season
> but they actually tried to get back to being semi-serious in season four.
> It was too little too late though.

I say "Melrose Place" is another one - seasons 5-6 were pretty bad
(almost a parody of earlier "Melrose"), but they refocused and
tightened up in the final season, and brought some people back (and cut
the cast fat), and it got better.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

On 2023-02-22 16:30:02 +0000, anim8rfsk said:

> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 11:52:49 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This article just came up in my newsfeed and it was very much on-topic
>>>>> for this newsgroup:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishabassi/popular-tv-shows-people-hated
>>>>>
>>>>> For what it's worth, I actually stayed to the end of some of the series
>>>>> on their list, including Orange is the New Black, Weeds, and Dexter. But
>>>>> I only ever watched two episodes of Walking Dead and was bored to tears
>>>>> for both of those so never went past that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, what would be on YOUR list of shows that you loved and then hated?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have the time to think of 25 out of all the shows I've ever seen
>>>>> and any list I made would probably change any given day but I'll mention
>>>>> a few that come to mind off the top of my head.
>>>>>
>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>
>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>
>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>
>> Especially after spending so long trying to sell the viewers on how
>> there is a plan that will bring all that we saw together in the end.
>> It was a weak hand waving ending that didn't justify the hype.
>>
>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>
>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>
>>> On my list would be:
>>>
>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>> even finish it!
>>>
>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>> awful.
>>
>> Yeah, I can agree with this as someone that watched every episode.
>>
>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>
>> I honestly can't remember enough of how the story went to say. So it
>> likely wasn't horrible enough to leave an indelible mark in my memory,
>> but also was not good enough for me to remember it either. Mostly I
>> just remember Lauren Lee Smith as being awfully cute.
>>
>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>
>> Never did watch this show.
>>
>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>
>> ANDROMEDA would be another one that followed the EFC development.
>> Weren't both of them being impacted by Tribune? Though I suppose
>> ANDROMEDA was hurt more by Kevin Sorbo than any other production
>> issues.
>
> Alexa Doig’s pregnancy was the nail in the coffin.
>
> Did the cast of ANDROMEDA go on to have much in the way of careers?
>
> Looks like LAURA BERTRAM went on to do one or two guest shots a year almost
> entirely on Canadian shows I’ve never heard of.
>
> Same notation for LISA RYDER.
>
> GORDON MICHAEL WOOLVETT hasn’t had a dozen jobs in the 20 years since and
> apparently became a DJ.
>
> KEITH HAMILTON COBB has had like four credits since ANDROMEDA and
> effectively ended his career after a guest shot on an episode of CSI
> HORATIO where his character didn’t even have a name.
>
> BRANDY LEDFORD ended her career at age 40 on the dot with one comeback
> episode of NCIS Los Angeles.
>
> BRENT STAIT is still working! Lots of credits, many of which are TV movies
> with the word “mystery” in the title often opposite horrible people like
> Holly Robinson Ptui.
> Is he related to JEWEL?
>
> KEVIN SORBO has been and continues to be quite busy, albeit mostly in stuff
> I’ve never heard of, much of which would be crazy religious things based on
> the titles.
> Hey, I had forgotten he was the earlier Middleman character on THE
> MIDDLEMAN!

"Mythica", dude! "Mythica"!!

> And our dear ALEXA DOIG looks to have been as busy as she probably wanted
> to be although her career has just been severely impacted by the crazy
> religious beliefs of Candace Cameron Bure.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

On 2023-02-22 17:00:50 +0000, anim8rfsk said:

> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-02-21 22:59:00 +0000, shawn said:
>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 14:29:03 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-21 20:53:45 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>>>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>>>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>>>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On my list would be:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>>>>> even finish it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>>>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>>>>> awful.
>>>>>
>>>>> The final season is tied with any other nominee for worst season ever
>>>>> produced.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>>>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly, it wasn’t any worse than the rest of the show.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>>>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>>>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>>>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> You didn’t say anything about Buffy.
>>>>
>>>> 'Cos it only ran one season!!1! :p
>>>>
>>>> (Seriously, though - both "Buffy" and "Angel" would qualify for me,
>>>> with "Buffy" having the added effect that I also came to despise its
>>>> fandom!)
>>>
>>> I don't feel that Buffy/Angel are on the same level as the others
>>> mentioned in this thread. Sure, the quality definitely wasn't the same
>>> with Buffy once Joss Whedon essentially left Buffy. While I wasn't
>>> against changing up Spike the Spike/Buffy relationship got rough.
>>> With Angel I enjoyed most of it except for what they did with Cordelia
>>> during her last season. It really felt like the writers had issues
>>> with the Charisma and were taking it out on her character.
>>
>> The declared "metric" was "Shows you grew to hate" - I definitely grew
>> to hate "Buffy", and I hated "Angel" immediately after Doyle "died"
>> though I had mellowed on it some by its final season.
>>
>> But both meet the criteria.
>
> Serious question. Would you have forgiven Angel had they said “we had to
> get rid of Doyle because the actor is a suicidal junkie“ rather than “we
> had this planned from the beginning“? Or would you have then just hated
> them for torpedoing Doyle?

My guess is that would have prevented me from hating David Fury, and
might have got me to cut Whedon a little more slack.

But they still removed a good character, replaced him with a character
that I found to be horrible, and ruined Cordy's character, all in one
fell swoop, so it still would have been catastrophic for the show
itself from my perspective.

But how it went down did get me to hate and despise Fury and Whedon and
everyone in control of the show!

> I liked the loss of Doyle. I think Wesley the rogue watcher demon hunter
> was a much better replacement,

A terrible replacement - it literally took *seasons* to undo the damage
they did to both the character and the show.

> and I think the death of Doyle set the stage
> for this series where the lead was immortal, but any of his friends could
> die. Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wesley…

That's an OK conceit, but they handled it in the shittiest way
possible, esp. giving his powers to Cordy.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

On 2023-02-22 16:45:27 +0000, shawn said:

> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 07:50:38 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>
>>> CHARMED:
>>> This was a fun show until Allysa Milano got Shannan kicked off the show and
>>> made her character a Mary Sue HR nightmare.
>>
>> I never watched the show until Rose joined so for me Shannon was always the
>> odd character out if I caught a rerun.
>> I had forgotten about the shows horrible final season with big bang Katie.
>
> The show really did go downhill without Shannon on it. She kept
> steering the show in the right direction but obviously not what Milano
> wanted.

And yet there is someone in this newsgroup who will remain nameless who
keeps trying to gaslight us all that it was the opposite - that Doherty
was "terrible" for the show, and Milano didn't get her canned, and even
if she did it "improved" the show.

Try to say that with a straight face!!

I liked Rose McGowan, and she was drop dead gorgeous when she joined
the show. But it never recovered any of the "serious" elements it had
when Doherty was there, esp. during season #1.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>> nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>>>> Deep Space 9
>>>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have
>>>> Ben Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best
>>>> episode "The visitor".
>>>> What the hell were they thinking?
>>>
>>> I must have missed this.
>>
>> Actually, they replaced the actress playing Jadzia and effectively made
>> her a new char,
>
>No. Jadzia is the host, DAX is the ancient Symbiot. They killed Jadzia and
>put the host in a new body.

Don't you mean the worm in a new body (host)?

All I know is when you start swapping worms and bpodies, you get a different
person.

>> Gul Dukat went insane and contacted the anti-Prophets to destroy the
>> Wormhole (or vica versa), and Cisco joined the Prophets in the Wormhole
>> for an indefinite period of time, but time doesn't exist there, so we
>> don;t know what that means.
>
>Sisko committed suicide by grabbing Dukat and throwing them both into a
>lava pit

I do not remember that! I remember the Prophets intervened and teleported him
into the Wormhole and they gave him a chance to tell everyone he'd be back...
some day.

>>>> Oh! Knight Rider. ‘Nuff said.
>>
>> How so? It was always a cheesy show.
>
>You never saw the final season? KITT fell into the hands of a bunch of
>street chopper kids and ceased to be invulnerable so they were able to cut
>it up and make all sorts of stupid fins that stuck out in every direction
>when it went into “super pursuit mode“
>It wasn’t even the same model year car.
>
>https://media.techeblog.com/images/kitt-super-pursuit-mode.jpg

Oh my! I never saw that part!

--
Let's go Brandon!

In article
<1058485961.698774444.253750.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> BRENT STAIT is still working! Lots of credits, many of which are TV movies
> with the word ³mystery² in the title often opposite horrible people like
> Holly Robinson Ptui.
> Is he related to JEWEL?

No.

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-02-22 16:30:00 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>
>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-21 20:03:19 +0000, shawn said:
>>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 11:52:49 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This article just came up in my newsfeed and it was very much on-topic
>>>>>>> for this newsgroup:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishabassi/popular-tv-shows-people-hated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For what it's worth, I actually stayed to the end of some of the series
>>>>>>> on their list, including Orange is the New Black, Weeds, and Dexter. But
>>>>>>> I only ever watched two episodes of Walking Dead and was bored to tears
>>>>>>> for both of those so never went past that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, what would be on YOUR list of shows that you loved and then hated?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have the time to think of 25 out of all the shows I've ever seen
>>>>>>> and any list I made would probably change any given day but I'll mention
>>>>>>> a few that come to mind off the top of my head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>>>
>>>> Especially after spending so long trying to sell the viewers on how
>>>> there is a plan that will bring all that we saw together in the end.
>>>> It was a weak hand waving ending that didn't justify the hype.
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> On my list would be:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>>>> even finish it!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>>>> awful.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I can agree with this as someone that watched every episode.
>>>>
>>>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly can't remember enough of how the story went to say. So it
>>>> likely wasn't horrible enough to leave an indelible mark in my memory,
>>>> but also was not good enough for me to remember it either. Mostly I
>>>> just remember Lauren Lee Smith as being awfully cute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>>>
>>>> Never did watch this show.
>>>>
>>>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>>>
>>>> ANDROMEDA would be another one that followed the EFC development.
>>>> Weren't both of them being impacted by Tribune? Though I suppose
>>>> ANDROMEDA was hurt more by Kevin Sorbo than any other production
>>>> issues.
>>>
>>> Yes, in fact "Andromeda" is the prototypical example of this - like I
>>> said elsewhere, I dropped the show cold when they wrote out Tyr, and
>>> never looked back.
>>>
>>> But it was declining fast even before Tyr left...
>>
>> That reminds me. As much as I hate to say it as it’s still the second best
>> Star Trek series:
>> Deep Space 9
>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have Ben
>> Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best episode
>> “the visitor“
>> What the hell were they thinking?
>>
>> And try to imagine how much my spellchecker hated that last paragraph, and
>> how many times I had to fix the names and it probably still won’t come
>> through right.
>>
>> Oh! Knight Rider. ‘Nuff said.
>>
>> And perhaps the most egregious example of them all:
>> AIRWOLF
>> For that one we have no one but Canadia to blame.
>> “Let’s underbid the Americans to make another season and save the money by
>> not having the helicopter, eh?“
>>
>>> Basically, nearly any show that ran too many seasons will end up in
>>> this category.
>>>
>>> "Gossip Girl" (the original) and definitely PLL (Bitches!) belong in
>>> here too. Maybe "The OC" as well.
>>
>> I am always fascinated by the shows that turn to crap and then managed to
>> get better. There are so few of them!
>>
>> LOST IN SPACE (1964). Its second season is unwatchable, but there are a few
>> gems in season three.
>>
>> THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E. Season three was the goofy Batman inspired season
>> but they actually tried to get back to being semi-serious in season four.
>> It was too little too late though.
>
> I say "Melrose Place" is another one - seasons 5-6 were pretty bad
> (almost a parody of earlier "Melrose"), but they refocused and
> tightened up in the final season, and brought some people back (and cut
> the cast fat), and it got better.
>

Thanks for the follow up. I’ll take your word on it as I’ve never watch
more than a couple early episodes of Melrose.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-02-22 16:30:02 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 11:52:49 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This article just came up in my newsfeed and it was very much on-topic
>>>>>> for this newsgroup:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishabassi/popular-tv-shows-people-hated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For what it's worth, I actually stayed to the end of some of the series
>>>>>> on their list, including Orange is the New Black, Weeds, and Dexter. But
>>>>>> I only ever watched two episodes of Walking Dead and was bored to tears
>>>>>> for both of those so never went past that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, what would be on YOUR list of shows that you loved and then hated?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have the time to think of 25 out of all the shows I've ever seen
>>>>>> and any list I made would probably change any given day but I'll mention
>>>>>> a few that come to mind off the top of my head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>>
>>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>>
>>> Especially after spending so long trying to sell the viewers on how
>>> there is a plan that will bring all that we saw together in the end.
>>> It was a weak hand waving ending that didn't justify the hype.
>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>>
>>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>>
>>>> On my list would be:
>>>>
>>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>>> even finish it!
>>>>
>>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>>> awful.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I can agree with this as someone that watched every episode.
>>>
>>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>>
>>> I honestly can't remember enough of how the story went to say. So it
>>> likely wasn't horrible enough to leave an indelible mark in my memory,
>>> but also was not good enough for me to remember it either. Mostly I
>>> just remember Lauren Lee Smith as being awfully cute.
>>>
>>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>>
>>> Never did watch this show.
>>>
>>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>>
>>> ANDROMEDA would be another one that followed the EFC development.
>>> Weren't both of them being impacted by Tribune? Though I suppose
>>> ANDROMEDA was hurt more by Kevin Sorbo than any other production
>>> issues.
>>
>> Alexa Doig’s pregnancy was the nail in the coffin.
>>
>> Did the cast of ANDROMEDA go on to have much in the way of careers?
>>
>> Looks like LAURA BERTRAM went on to do one or two guest shots a year almost
>> entirely on Canadian shows I’ve never heard of.
>>
>> Same notation for LISA RYDER.
>>
>> GORDON MICHAEL WOOLVETT hasn’t had a dozen jobs in the 20 years since and
>> apparently became a DJ.
>>
>> KEITH HAMILTON COBB has had like four credits since ANDROMEDA and
>> effectively ended his career after a guest shot on an episode of CSI
>> HORATIO where his character didn’t even have a name.
>>
>> BRANDY LEDFORD ended her career at age 40 on the dot with one comeback
>> episode of NCIS Los Angeles.
>>
>> BRENT STAIT is still working! Lots of credits, many of which are TV movies
>> with the word “mystery” in the title often opposite horrible people like
>> Holly Robinson Ptui.
>> Is he related to JEWEL?
>>
>> KEVIN SORBO has been and continues to be quite busy, albeit mostly in stuff
>> I’ve never heard of, much of which would be crazy religious things based on
>> the titles.
>> Hey, I had forgotten he was the earlier Middleman character on THE
>> MIDDLEMAN!
>
> "Mythica", dude! "Mythica"!!

I am aware that that exists, but I’ve never done more than glance at it.

>
>> And our dear ALEXA DOIG looks to have been as busy as she probably wanted
>> to be although her career has just been severely impacted by the crazy
>> religious beliefs of Candace Cameron Bure.
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <1058485961.698774444.253750.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> BRENT STAIT is still working! Lots of credits, many of which are TV movies
>> with the word ³mystery² in the title often opposite horrible people like
>> Holly Robinson Ptui.
>> Is he related to JEWEL?
>
>
> No.
>

Thanks

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>> nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> Deep Space 9
>>>>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have
>>>>> Ben Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best
>>>>> episode "The visitor".
>>>>> What the hell were they thinking?
>>>>
>>>> I must have missed this.
>>>
>>> Actually, they replaced the actress playing Jadzia and effectively made
>>> her a new char,
>>
>> No. Jadzia is the host, DAX is the ancient Symbiot. They killed Jadzia and
>> put the host in a new body.
>
> Don't you mean the worm in a new body (host)?
>
> All I know is when you start swapping worms and bpodies, you get a different
> person.

Exactly. And Jadzia Dax was dead. Twice over.

>
>
>>> Gul Dukat went insane and contacted the anti-Prophets to destroy the
>>> Wormhole (or vica versa), and Cisco joined the Prophets in the Wormhole
>>> for an indefinite period of time, but time doesn't exist there, so we
>>> don;t know what that means.
>>
>> Sisko committed suicide by grabbing Dukat and throwing them both into a
>> lava pit
>
> I do not remember that! I remember the Prophets intervened and teleported him
> into the Wormhole and they gave him a chance to tell everyone he'd be back...
> some day.

I am trying to pull it up, but Paramont plus just doesn’t work at all.

After five minutes I managed to navigate to it. And for my trouble I get an
ad for Picard.

In the fire caves of Béjar, the Evil Wraiths choose the Evil Dukat over the
Evil Kai. Sisko gets a magical message to go to the caves alone. 27
seconds later he is there.

Dukat taunts Sisko to kill him if he can. In what I never noticed is a
scene for scene remake of the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before, Dukat
uses his new magic powers to whisk the phaser rifle out of Sisko’s hands
and force Sisko to his knees.

The Evil Kai distracts Dukat long enough for Sisko to leap on him and knock
them both over the edge into the flames below, murdering Dukat and killing
himself.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that you can kill somebody with super
telekinetic powers by pushing him over the edge.

Sisko finds himself in the stupid white limbo temple where the gods tell
him they won’t let him leave.

Cassidy has a vision where she joins him there briefly and he says it’s not
linear and he might be back in a year or yesterday.

Everybody has flashbacks and not one of them includes Jadzia.

Worst. Ending. Ever.

I stand by my original description. Sisko murdered Dukat and killed
himself. The pointless ad-on limbo stuff doesn’t change his intent or
actions. And I think we can pretty safely assume that he never came back.
He’s dead, Jim.

>
>>>>> Oh! Knight Rider. ‘Nuff said.
>>>
>>> How so? It was always a cheesy show.
>>
>> You never saw the final season? KITT fell into the hands of a bunch of
>> street chopper kids and ceased to be invulnerable so they were able to cut
>> it up and make all sorts of stupid fins that stuck out in every direction
>> when it went into “super pursuit mode“
>> It wasn’t even the same model year car.
>>
>> https://media.techeblog.com/images/kitt-super-pursuit-mode.jpg
>
> Oh my! I never saw that part!

Like that would make you go faster.

>
> --
> Let's go Brandon!
>
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 13:15:46 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2023-02-22 17:00:50 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>
>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-21 22:59:00 +0000, shawn said:
>>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 14:29:03 -0800, Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-02-21 20:53:45 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-02-21 18:14:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>>>>> In article <tt2u32$16i55$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In no particular order:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lost - I only stayed to the end of Season 4 but at least half of that
>>>>>>>>> was a hard slog before I finally realized the I no longer remotely cared
>>>>>>>>> about the show. Mind you, I don't think I ever LOVED the show in the
>>>>>>>>> first place: I just found it intriguing and was very curious to see
>>>>>>>>> where it was going to go.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I stayed with it longer than I normally would have for Evangeline Lilly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like "Lost" on balance, but the final season was pretty bad, and the
>>>>>>> ending was pretty unforgivable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm pretty much watching THE FLASH out of habit at this point. I really
>>>>>>>> don't care anything about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of The C-Wub shows fall into this category. Even "Legacies", which
>>>>>>> didn't fall apart into s**t like all of the Arrowverse shows did, still
>>>>>>> declined some with its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On my list would be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Vikings: Got worse and worse, post-Ragnar. Post-Lagertha, I didn't
>>>>>>> even finish it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>>>>>>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>>>>>>> awful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The final season is tied with any other nominee for worst season ever
>>>>>> produced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Mutant X - Anim can joke all he wants, but final post-Lauren Lee
>>>>>>> Smith, post-John Shea season with Karen Cliche was *terrible*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honestly, it wasn’t any worse than the rest of the show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>>>>>>> departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>>>>>>> #6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>>>>>>> Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You didn’t say anything about Buffy.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Cos it only ran one season!!1! :p
>>>>>
>>>>> (Seriously, though - both "Buffy" and "Angel" would qualify for me,
>>>>> with "Buffy" having the added effect that I also came to despise its
>>>>> fandom!)
>>>>
>>>> I don't feel that Buffy/Angel are on the same level as the others
>>>> mentioned in this thread. Sure, the quality definitely wasn't the same
>>>> with Buffy once Joss Whedon essentially left Buffy. While I wasn't
>>>> against changing up Spike the Spike/Buffy relationship got rough.
>>>> With Angel I enjoyed most of it except for what they did with Cordelia
>>>> during her last season. It really felt like the writers had issues
>>>> with the Charisma and were taking it out on her character.
>>>
>>> The declared "metric" was "Shows you grew to hate" - I definitely grew
>>> to hate "Buffy", and I hated "Angel" immediately after Doyle "died"
>>> though I had mellowed on it some by its final season.
>>>
>>> But both meet the criteria.
>>
>> Serious question. Would you have forgiven Angel had they said “we had to
>> get rid of Doyle because the actor is a suicidal junkie“ rather than “we
>> had this planned from the beginning“? Or would you have then just hated
>> them for torpedoing Doyle?
>
>My guess is that would have prevented me from hating David Fury, and
>might have got me to cut Whedon a little more slack.

But Fury told us that "They got the mustard out." How can you hate the
man who passes on such information.

>But they still removed a good character, replaced him with a character
>that I found to be horrible, and ruined Cordy's character, all in one
>fell swoop, so it still would have been catastrophic for the show
>itself from my perspective.
>
>But how it went down did get me to hate and despise Fury and Whedon and
>everyone in control of the show!
>
>> I liked the loss of Doyle. I think Wesley the rogue watcher demon hunter
>> was a much better replacement,
>
>A terrible replacement - it literally took *seasons* to undo the damage
>they did to both the character and the show.

Yes, Wesley, as he came into the show, made no sense at all. Wesley,
as the character he grew into, was a great addition.

>> and I think the death of Doyle set the stage
>> for this series where the lead was immortal, but any of his friends could
>> die. Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wesley…
>
>That's an OK conceit, but they handled it in the shittiest way
>possible, esp. giving his powers to Cordy.

In article
<1885476009.698798531.564196.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
> > anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
> >> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
> >>> nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
> >>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Deep Space 9
> >>>>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have
> >>>>> Ben Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best
> >>>>> episode "The visitor".
> >>>>> What the hell were they thinking?
> >>>>
> >>>> I must have missed this.
> >>>
> >>> Actually, they replaced the actress playing Jadzia and effectively made
> >>> her a new char,
> >>
> >> No. Jadzia is the host, DAX is the ancient Symbiot. They killed Jadzia and
> >> put the host in a new body.
> >
> > Don't you mean the worm in a new body (host)?
> >
> > All I know is when you start swapping worms and bpodies, you get a
> > different person.
>
> Exactly. And Jadzia Dax was dead. Twice over.

> >>> Gul Dukat went insane and contacted the anti-Prophets to destroy the
> >>> Wormhole (or vica versa), and Cisco joined the Prophets in the Wormhole
> >>> for an indefinite period of time, but time doesn't exist there, so we
> >>> don;t know what that means.
> >>
> >> Sisko committed suicide by grabbing Dukat and throwing them both into a
> >> lava pit
> >
> > I do not remember that! I remember the Prophets intervened and teleported
> > him into the Wormhole and they gave him a chance to tell everyone he'd be
> > back... some day.
>
> I am trying to pull it up, but Paramont plus just doesn't work at all.
>
> After five minutes I managed to navigate to it. And for my trouble I get an
> ad for Picard.
>
> In the fire caves of BŽjar, the Evil Wraiths choose the Evil Dukat over the
> Evil Kai. Sisko gets a magical message to go to the caves alone. 27
> seconds later he is there.
>
> Dukat taunts Sisko to kill him if he can. In what I never noticed is a
> scene for scene remake of the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before, Dukat
> uses his new magic powers to whisk the phaser rifle out of Sisko's hands
> and force Sisko to his knees.
>
> The Evil Kai distracts Dukat long enough for Sisko to leap on him and knock
> them both over the edge into the flames below, murdering Dukat and killing
> himself.
>
> It's absolutely ridiculous that you can kill somebody with super
> telekinetic powers by pushing him over the edge.
>
> Sisko finds himself in the stupid white limbo temple where the gods tell
> him they won't let him leave.
>
> Cassidy has a vision where she joins him there briefly and he says it's not
> linear and he might be back in a year or yesterday.
>
> Everybody has flashbacks and not one of them includes Jadzia.
>
> Worst. Ending. Ever.
>
> I stand by my original description. Sisko murdered Dukat and killed
> himself. The pointless ad-on limbo stuff doesn't change his intent or
> actions.

Wasn't Dukat going to use his new powers to murder and enslave the Bajoran people or something?

If so, then it wasn't murder. It was justifiable homicide. (Or lizardicide since he killed a Cardassian.)

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:

>On my list would be:

> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>awful.

Let's be honest. Season 1 wasn't good, but it had a number of good
episodes. I hated the first few weeks. It didn't have a good episode
till "Sandoval's Run". Late in the season, Kari Matchett was introduced,
but her episodes, with the killer butterflies and the Amish, stank. I'm
so glad she didn't join the main cast and took Nero Wolfe instead.

> - Degrassi - Definitely declined even before the "original" cast
>departed in season #7 (probably killing off what's his face in season
>#6(?) was the "jump the shark" moment), and got worse and worse after.
>Post-Holly J, I think it was pretty much unwatachable.

I remember watching the original series but not regularly. I think I
liked some of it. Never tried the revival.

> - I'm pretty sure I started hating "Friends" by its last couple of seasons.

>I'm sure there are others that are slipping my mind right now.

I hated it from first season. I watched maybe six episode across all
seasons.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>. . .

>KEVIN SORBO has been and continues to be quite busy, albeit mostly in stuff
>I’ve never heard of, much of which would be crazy religious things based on
>the titles.
>Hey, I had forgotten he was the earlier Middleman character on THE
>MIDDLEMAN!

Middleman!

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>Bringing Wesley in was a fine addition. I liked Doyle but was okay
>with his loss as it showed that there were real stakes in the show.

A vampire cannot be killed if the stake isn't real.

>What I didn't like was the pretense that his loss was planned from the
>beginning. No need to get into why the show was parting ways with the
>actor but also no need to try and gaslight the viewers.

Alan Smithee <alms@last.inc> wrote:

>. . .

>Veronica Mars: Season one was great, season two was lackluster, by
>season three who cared anymore? Her "on again / off again" relationship
>with her boyfriend became tedious in the extreme.

Season 3 was an improvement over Season 2 during which every single
episode retconned the week before.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <1885476009.698798531.564196.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>>> nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
>>>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Deep Space 9
>>>>>>> They kill off Jadzia Dax, turn Gul Dukat psychotically evil, and have
>>>>>>> Ben Sisko kill himself, completely undermining the legacy of their best
>>>>>>> episode "The visitor".
>>>>>>> What the hell were they thinking?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must have missed this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, they replaced the actress playing Jadzia and effectively made
>>>>> her a new char,
>>>>
>>>> No. Jadzia is the host, DAX is the ancient Symbiot. They killed Jadzia and
>>>> put the host in a new body.
>>>
>>> Don't you mean the worm in a new body (host)?
>>>
>>> All I know is when you start swapping worms and bpodies, you get a
>>> different person.
>>
>> Exactly. And Jadzia Dax was dead. Twice over.
>
>>>>> Gul Dukat went insane and contacted the anti-Prophets to destroy the
>>>>> Wormhole (or vica versa), and Cisco joined the Prophets in the Wormhole
>>>>> for an indefinite period of time, but time doesn't exist there, so we
>>>>> don;t know what that means.
>>>>
>>>> Sisko committed suicide by grabbing Dukat and throwing them both into a
>>>> lava pit
>>>
>>> I do not remember that! I remember the Prophets intervened and teleported
>>> him into the Wormhole and they gave him a chance to tell everyone he'd be
>>> back... some day.
>>
>> I am trying to pull it up, but Paramont plus just doesn't work at all.
>>
>> After five minutes I managed to navigate to it. And for my trouble I get an
>> ad for Picard.
>>
>> In the fire caves of BŽjar, the Evil Wraiths choose the Evil Dukat over the
>> Evil Kai. Sisko gets a magical message to go to the caves alone. 27
>> seconds later he is there.
>>
>> Dukat taunts Sisko to kill him if he can. In what I never noticed is a
>> scene for scene remake of the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before, Dukat
>> uses his new magic powers to whisk the phaser rifle out of Sisko's hands
>> and force Sisko to his knees.
>>
>> The Evil Kai distracts Dukat long enough for Sisko to leap on him and knock
>> them both over the edge into the flames below, murdering Dukat and killing
>> himself.
>>
>> It's absolutely ridiculous that you can kill somebody with super
>> telekinetic powers by pushing him over the edge.
>>
>> Sisko finds himself in the stupid white limbo temple where the gods tell
>> him they won't let him leave.
>>
>> Cassidy has a vision where she joins him there briefly and he says it's not
>> linear and he might be back in a year or yesterday.
>>
>> Everybody has flashbacks and not one of them includes Jadzia.
>>
>> Worst. Ending. Ever.
>>
>> I stand by my original description. Sisko murdered Dukat and killed
>> himself. The pointless ad-on limbo stuff doesn't change his intent or
>> actions.
>
> Wasn't Dukat going to use his new powers to murder and enslave the
> Bajoran people or something?
>
> If so, then it wasn't murder. It was justifiable homicide. (Or
> lizardicide since he killed a Cardassian.)
>

I think he was threatening the entire alpha quadrant. But he can’t even
stop you from sissy, pushing him over the edge when he sees it coming!

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On my list would be:
>
>> - Earth: Final Conflict - I stayed with it on and off through the
>> bitter end, but only season #1 was any good. The last few seasons were
>> awful.
>
> Let's be honest. Season 1 wasn't good, but it had a number of good
> episodes. I hated the first few weeks. It didn't have a good episode
> till "Sandoval's Run". Late in the season, Kari Matchett was introduced,
> but her episodes, with the killer butterflies and the Amish, stank. I'm
> so glad she didn't join the main cast and took Nero Wolfe instead.
>

Agreed

Sandoval‘s run may have been best of series. By season two they were
already doing crap like visiting the alternate earth where there’s only
20,000 people and yet there’s a duplicate of everyone we’ve ever seen. By
the final season, they had alternate aliens, who growled constantly even in
the middle of delivering exposition, almost as if the sound guy was just
playing growling noises randomly.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> . . .
>
>> KEVIN SORBO has been and continues to be quite busy, albeit mostly in stuff
>> I’ve never heard of, much of which would be crazy religious things based on
>> the titles.
>> Hey, I had forgotten he was the earlier Middleman character on THE
>> MIDDLEMAN!
>
> Middleman!
>

:)

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> Bringing Wesley in was a fine addition. I liked Doyle but was okay
>> with his loss as it showed that there were real stakes in the show.
>
> A vampire cannot be killed if the stake isn't real.

Which doesn’t make any sense, if you can kill a vampire with fingernail
clippers.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 19:30:54 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> . . .
>>
>>> KEVIN SORBO has been and continues to be quite busy, albeit mostly in stuff
>>> I’ve never heard of, much of which would be crazy religious things based on
>>> the titles.
>>> Hey, I had forgotten he was the earlier Middleman character on THE
>>> MIDDLEMAN!
>>
>> Middleman!
>>
>
>:)

Every time I see MIDDLEMAN! I can't help but think of SPOON!
The Tick and the Middleman are forever connected in my mind.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 19:30:55 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> . . .
>>
>>> Bringing Wesley in was a fine addition. I liked Doyle but was okay
>>> with his loss as it showed that there were real stakes in the show.
>>
>> A vampire cannot be killed if the stake isn't real.
>
>Which doesn’t make any sense, if you can kill a vampire with fingernail
>clippers.

What if the clippers have a bit of wood splinters stuck inside?

Just how much wood do you need to kill a vampire. If you had balsa
wood grenades that weren't that powerful but sent out a thousand
splinters would that kill a room full of vampires?

In article <jckdvh98t9k1vup2f3hlq56fk586sqj5ur@4ax.com>, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 19:30:55 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> . . .
> >>
> >>> Bringing Wesley in was a fine addition. I liked Doyle but was okay
> >>> with his loss as it showed that there were real stakes in the show.
> >>
> >> A vampire cannot be killed if the stake isn't real.
> >
> >Which doesn¹t make any sense, if you can kill a vampire with fingernail
> >clippers.
>
> What if the clippers have a bit of wood splinters stuck inside?
>
> Just how much wood do you need to kill a vampire. If you had balsa
> wood grenades that weren't that powerful but sent out a thousand
> splinters would that kill a room full of vampires?

Probably not, but they would be wounded. They'd probably also be
pissed off.

Staking a vampire immobilizes him until the stake is removed, and we've
all seen how that goes. You get rid of a vampire with sunlight, which
destroys him. After all, there are rules.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 22:30:00 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>In article <jckdvh98t9k1vup2f3hlq56fk586sqj5ur@4ax.com>, shawn
><nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 19:30:55 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> >> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>> . . .
>> >>
>> >>> Bringing Wesley in was a fine addition. I liked Doyle but was okay
>> >>> with his loss as it showed that there were real stakes in the show.
>> >>
>> >> A vampire cannot be killed if the stake isn't real.
>> >
>> >Which doesn¹t make any sense, if you can kill a vampire with fingernail
>> >clippers.
>>
>> What if the clippers have a bit of wood splinters stuck inside?
>>
>> Just how much wood do you need to kill a vampire. If you had balsa
>> wood grenades that weren't that powerful but sent out a thousand
>> splinters would that kill a room full of vampires?
>
>
>Probably not, but they would be wounded. They'd probably also be
>pissed off.
>
>Staking a vampire immobilizes him until the stake is removed, and we've
>all seen how that goes. You get rid of a vampire with sunlight, which
>destroys him. After all, there are rules.

Depends on the vampires. In the world of DAY SHIFT (Netflix) the vamps
are hurt by silver but can only be killed when you remove the head.
Using a stake doesn't do a thing to the vampire except anger it. Then
in the world of FRIGHT NIGHT all the old tropes work so long as you
believe in them. So many vampires, so many rules.