Boots wrote:

> The halon systems used a lot of places I worked had a siren and strobes that
> triggered 30 seconds before gas as I recall for mush the same reason.

The current non-halon systems are much the same, klaxons and lights
giving you 30 seconds to get out, and usually a big green button that
will buy you an extra 20(?) seconds ...

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2,3,3,3-Heptafluoropropane>

Ace wrote:

> > The halon systems used a lot of places I worked had a siren and
> > strobes that triggered 30 seconds before gas as I recall for mush
> > the same reason.
>
> Yeah, that sounds familiar, and also the use, back then of halon. not
> argon.

Railway engines (esp. English Electric) had CO2 suppression systems -
big, red painted, evil looking nozzles at head height in the locomotive
engine rooms. There were no warning systems...

> Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
> discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
> instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.

We referred to Halon as BCF - I think it was the same stuff - but ours
were portable and painted yellow (the really old ones were green).
Fixed sytems were CO2.

Portable BCF was replaced by AFF sometime in the early 90s.

--
Simon

On 12 Sep 2021 12:00:43 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> > The halon systems used a lot of places I worked had a siren and
>> > strobes that triggered 30 seconds before gas as I recall for mush
>> > the same reason.
>>
>> Yeah, that sounds familiar, and also the use, back then of halon. not
>> argon.
>
>Railway engines (esp. English Electric) had CO2 suppression systems -
>big, red painted, evil looking nozzles at head height in the locomotive
>engine rooms. There were no warning systems...

Going back to the point about CO2, your body would quite quickly
react, as it would be unable to evacuate CO2 from the lungs,
increasing levels in the blood, which then trigger reactions including
breathing ever more heavily, so you would quickly become aware of it
and start struggling for breath and gtf out of there.

The other inert gas systems would cause no such reaction, hence the
need for alarm systems.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Ace wrote:

> > Railway engines (esp. English Electric) had CO2 suppression systems
> > - big, red painted, evil looking nozzles at head height in the
> > locomotive engine rooms. There were no warning systems...
>
> Going back to the point about CO2, your body would quite quickly
> react, as it would be unable to evacuate CO2 from the lungs,
> increasing levels in the blood, which then trigger reactions including
> breathing ever more heavily, so you would quickly become aware of it
> and start struggling for breath and gtf out of there.

Makes perfect sense - although the noise of the CO2 going off would be
warning enough.

They were really malevolent looking things.

--
Simon

On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 08:31:13 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/09/2021 10:07, sweller wrote:

>>> I even used to try and create a 'skin tone' colour to paint the face
>>> of the pilot in the plane.
>> The bulk of the painting was done whilst it was still in the frames.
>Did you remember to wash them in mild washing-up liquid to remove the
>glaze so that the paint would adhere better and could be applied thinner
>so that the fine moulding detail wasn't lost?

Blimey - I never knew any of that!
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:42:53 +0800, Boots
><news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 11/09/2021 20:46 Ace penned these words:
>
>>> On some ships I served on there were spaces which had inert gas
>>> (argon, IIRC) flooding fire control systems. Oxygen sensors would be
>>> redundant, but of course there were processes in place to ensure said
>>> spaces were evacuated and isolated before use. I don't quite remember
>>> the details though.
>>>
>>The halon systems used a lot of places I worked had a siren and strobes that
>>triggered 30 seconds before gas as I recall for mush the same reason.
>
>Yeah, that sounds familiar, and also the use, back then of halon. not
>argon.
>
>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.

Halon did (and still does) nasty things to the atmosphere, so was
deprecated a long time ago for fire supression. One interesting
replacement in data centres was a very fine water misting system -
soimehow these are reputed not to harm any electronics and are safe
enough for any human occupants of the room, unlike oxygen replacement
(though I wouldn't be hanging around to test that if there was a
fire). I've seen the systems but thankfully never had the need to use
them, the possibility of rebuilding all the kit if practice didn't
match theory is daunting.

--

Pete
Garage vacancy now filled, N+1 incremented accordingly
F800R

On 12/09/2021 18:04 Ace penned these words:
> Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
> discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
> instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.

Relying on my shaky memory a lot of the switch sites were changed out but remote
radio sites kept halon for sometime after, I high tailed it for France so lost
track. Albeit I think this was >20 years so maybe it was mandated before then.
The remotes as I recall we could leave the system in but if it ever triggered
there was no way to replace the gas.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.

It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
news:ot3vjgh1ek6j0v8ot27m1ho1k3g7g0ursd@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>
>>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.
>
> It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.
>

that's because there are still a shit load of wide bodied jets built in the
1970s hauling freight around the planet

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 20:00:33 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
>news:ot3vjgh1ek6j0v8ot27m1ho1k3g7g0ursd@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>>>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>>>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.
>>
>> It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.
>>
>
>that's because there are still a shit load of wide bodied jets built in the
>1970s hauling freight around the planet

Possibly, but could also be it's a relatively limited, specialised
application that really benefits from the relative low weight or
volume of the stored agent, both being important in aircraft.

I just did a bit of Googling: seems Halon was only kept avaiable
because there were usable stocks, but as it's no longer produced,
there are alternatives being phased in.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
news:n4dvjgpepnqgsccs2rjovudq5hramp9s0r@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 20:00:33 -0000 (UTC), wessie
> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>>Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:ot3vjgh1ek6j0v8ot27m1ho1k3g7g0ursd@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>>>>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>>>>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.
>>>
>>> It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.
>>>
>>
>>that's because there are still a shit load of wide bodied jets built
>>in the 1970s hauling freight around the planet
>
> Possibly, but could also be it's a relatively limited, specialised
> application that really benefits from the relative low weight or
> volume of the stored agent, both being important in aircraft.
>
> I just did a bit of Googling: seems Halon was only kept avaiable
> because there were usable stocks, but as it's no longer produced,
> there are alternatives being phased in.
>

there's a company based at Kemble Airport in the Cotswolds that does a
Murray with SO747s, stripping the carcasses of retired aircraft for spares.
I guess they will strip out any "cartridges" in date to recycle in the old
crates being used to ship Egyptian and Indian grapes into Lidl. They have
several recently retired BA 747s parked there awaiting their destiny.

On 13/09/2021 21:00, wessie wrote:
> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
> news:ot3vjgh1ek6j0v8ot27m1ho1k3g7g0ursd@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>>> discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>>> instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.
>>
>> It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.
>>
>
> that's because there are still a shit load of wide bodied jets built in the
> 1970s hauling freight around the planet
>
I've actually still got two, well out of date but up to pressure ones in
cars. They would have cost money to dispose of properly.

All the army Landrovers had halon extinguishers fixed on the passenger
footwell, story is when they were ordered to replace them out the
mechanics struck them on the floor to discharge them.

wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
> news:ot3vjgh1ek6j0v8ot27m1ho1k3g7g0ursd@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:04:13 +0200, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Oddly enough it seems (or so google tells me) that halon use was
>>>discontinued twenty years or more ago, now using various agents
>>>instead, most commonly a 50/50 argon/nitrogen mixture, so meh.
>>
>> It is still used in certain areas, like aviation, apparently.
>
> that's because there are still a shit load of wide bodied jets built in the
> 1970s hauling freight around the planet

Its about toxicity, A fire in the air is serious bad news without
killing the pilot before he can get it down on the ground to excape.
Breathing substantial ammounts of halon in the air is relatively safe
and it is good at suppressing fires..

--
http://www.netunix.com/

On 12/09/2021 17:42, Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 08:31:13 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/09/2021 10:07, sweller wrote:
>
>>>> I even used to try and create a 'skin tone' colour to paint the face
>>>> of the pilot in the plane.
>
>>> The bulk of the painting was done whilst it was still in the frames.
>
>> Did you remember to wash them in mild washing-up liquid to remove the
>> glaze so that the paint would adhere better and could be applied thinner
>> so that the fine moulding detail wasn't lost?
>
> Blimey - I never knew any of that!
>
My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
home computers and more than three TV channels.

On 9/17/2021 9:38 AM, Tim wrote:
> On 12/09/2021 17:42, Champ wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 08:31:13 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/09/2021 10:07, sweller wrote:
>>
>>>>> I even used to try and create a 'skin tone' colour to paint the face
>>>>> of the pilot in the plane.
>>>> The bulk of the painting was done whilst it was still in the frames.
>>> Did you remember to wash them in mild washing-up liquid to remove the
>>> glaze so that the paint would adhere better and could be applied thinner
>>> so that the fine moulding detail wasn't lost?
>>
>> Blimey - I never knew any of that!
>>
> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
> Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
> eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
> only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
> home computers and more than three TV channels.

Color me impressed.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:

>My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>home computers and more than three TV channels.

<shuffles feet self-consciously>

Our school favourite was 1/300 scale tanks, especially after we
discovered the joys of "plasticraft".

Buy one Tiger tank (30p from memory), and make as many as you want at
around a penny each. Better still, sell them to your classmates at 5p
a go. :-)
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

On 17/09/2021 18:46, Turby wrote:
> On 9/17/2021 9:38 AM, Tim wrote:
>>>
>> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the
>> uniforms. Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the
>> north. Buttons, eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification
>> using a brush with only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course
>> this was all before home computers and more than three TV channels.
>
> Color me impressed.

It'll take a long time to do that with a brush with three bristles.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:

>My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>home computers and more than three TV channels.

Jeezus, that's just... sad.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 18/09/2021 13:59, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>> Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>> eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>> only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>> home computers and more than three TV channels.
>
> Jeezus, that's just... sad.
>

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AOaemvIRkvivf-5A1ZDYs9bADI_k9D5YZQ:1631974289404&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=grain+of+rice+carving&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjamLX-2YjzAhVynFwKHeNzDDkQjJkEegQIAhAC&biw=1707&bih=888&dpr=1.5

--
/Simon

On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 17:48:52 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> On 7 Sep 2021 09:07:25 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >Champ wrote:
> >
> >> > I never got my head round wh some kids, including at least one of my
> >> > brothers, would bother painting airfkx models, let alone toy
> >> > soldiers. Sure, I'd stick the transfers on, but painting them just
> >> > seemed like faff for the sake of faff.
> >>
> >> Eh? Painting was part of the job, and the fun.
> >>
> >> I even used to try and create a 'skin tone' colour to paint the face
> >> of the pilot in the plane.
>
> >The bulk of the painting was done whilst it was still in the frames.
> Yes!

A bit late to the thread... but I just wondered if anyone knew if other nations
encouraged an obsession with 'machines of war' amongst their children in
some sort of 'ancestor worship' ritual?

On 10/09/2021 11:29, Ace wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2021 08:09:59 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Turby wrote:
>>
>>>> Or you could survive just long enough to make your last minutes a
>>>> living hell.
>>>>
>>> This. Helium is painless.
>>
>> Why is helium painless?
>>
>> I would have thought you would still be gripped by panic and fight for
>> breath?
>
> No, it's not lack of oxygen that causes you to breath hard, but excess
> carbon dioxide. So your breathing will remain pretty much normal,
> you'll simply fall uncoscious and die.
>

Spooky, I only read that in a book a couple of days ago.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:31:20 PM UTC+1, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 September 2021 at 17:48:52 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> >
> > >The bulk of the painting was done whilst it was still in the frames.
> > Yes!
>
> A bit late to the thread... but I just wondered if anyone knew if other nations
> encouraged an obsession with 'machines of war' amongst their children in
> some sort of 'ancestor worship' ritual?

Among major manufacturers of kits (predominantly of military subjects) are:

Revell - Germany
Hasegawa - Japan
Tamiya - Japan
Academy - Korea
Dragon - China
Heller - France
Monogram - USA
Roden - Ukraine
Trumpeter - China
Wingnut Wings - New Zealand
Zvezda - Russia

So, in short, and in closing... Yes.

--
WUN

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

> A bit late to the thread... but I just wondered if anyone knew if other nations
> encouraged an obsession with 'machines of war' amongst their children in
> some sort of 'ancestor worship' ritual?

Well, I can only speak for my own experience in the USA, I remember
plastic "Army men" and plenty of Airfix-style airplanes.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 17/09/2021 21:13, Salad Dodger wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>> Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>> eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>> only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>> home computers and more than three TV channels.
>
> <shuffles feet self-consciously>
>
> Our school favourite was 1/300 scale tanks, especially after we
> discovered the joys of "plasticraft".
>
> Buy one Tiger tank (30p from memory), and make as many as you want at
> around a penny each. Better still, sell them to your classmates at 5p
> a go. :-)
>
>
I'm surprised that you can remember that given the fumes the stuff gave off.

On 18/09/2021 13:59, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:38:18 +0100, Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My brother, seven years older, and I used to do American Civil War war
>> games. All the figures on bases of an exact size. All the figures
>> painted, my bother had colour plate reference books of all the uniforms.
>> Not just your usual grey for the south and blue for the north. Buttons,
>> eyes and other tiny bits painted under magnification using a brush with
>> only three bristles. You get the idea. Of course this was all before
>> home computers and more than three TV channels.
>
> Jeezus, that's just... sad.

What, a hobby that requires patience, practice and skill, and encourages
a study of history?

This is, of course, completely different to, for example, learning to
become a motorcycle racer which takes patience, practice and skill and
is often assisted by studying the technique of previous great riders.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS