Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 13:30, Tweed wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 12:58, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Homeowners have been responsible for everything after the master socket for
>>>> many years. All that’s really happening (effectively) is that the master
>>>> socket is moving to your router.
>>>
>>> But not all routers appear to have a master socket, mine doed not have
>>> one that I can see.
>>>
>>
>> If you have your current voice service via the same outfit as your ISP
>> you’ll probably be given the option of a new router.
>
> What if your ISP is different from your landline provider? They'll each
> say contact the other outfit.
>

It’s going to be interesting to see how that one plays out…

On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:

> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.

How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?

Seems a lot of sim cards.

Or was your suggestion really a joke?

Tony

On 11/10/2021 at 13:17, MB wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:35, charles wrote:
>> BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service beyond
>> 2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.
>
> That is their decision but it should be up to them to provide an
> equivalent without the customer having to do anything,
>

Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has been
mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
be supplied with any required equipment.

--
Wilf

On 11/10/2021 at 13:59, Max Demian wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 13:30, Tweed wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 12:58, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Homeowners have been responsible for everything after the master socket for
>>>> many years. All that’s really happening (effectively) is that the master
>>>> socket is moving to your router.
>>>
>>> But not all routers appear to have a master socket, mine doed not have
>>> one that I can see.
>>>
>>
>> If you have your current voice service via the same outfit as your ISP
>> you’ll probably be given the option of a new router.
>
> What if your ISP is different from your landline provider? They'll each
> say contact the other outfit.
>

Since this is an Ofcom-mediated move I'm pretty sure that that issue
will be sorted out in good time. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

--
Wilf

On 11/10/2021 14:25, Tony Gamble wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in
> the kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>
>
I tend to keep my mobile phone in my pocket, and it constantly travels
to the same room as me ? :-)

On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 09:16, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> Oh, Lordy, I'm not that technical! I just want a phone and an extension
>>>> both to work after I've been ported. But the BT HUb2 has only one
>>>> (bright green) telephone socket which seems to be a potential problem.
>>>
>>> My HUB6 has not telephone socket so they will presumably to replace it?
>>>
>>> I think there is going a massive reaction against this change because
>>> most people have a phone that was installed many years ago, they do not
>>> want to have start messing around with it. If BT want to transfer them
>>> to digital then it is up to BT to do any work necessary though I would
>>> prefer to stay on a land line connection because I don't want to start
>>> running mains extension leads around the house or having to an extra
>>> mains socket fitted.
>>>
>>> It's even worse than the letters I keep getting telling me that I can
>>> have a "smart" electricity meter as if it would be of some benefit to me.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> People can react all they like, but with nowhere else to take their
>> business (ie to get a wire analogue phone service) it’s going to be
>> basically adapt or silence.
>>
>>
>
> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.

Then I'd have to tell everyone not to use my landline number, which is
what most of them do currently.

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 14:25, Tony Gamble wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>>
>> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in
>> the kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>>
>>
> I tend to keep my mobile phone in my pocket, and it constantly travels
> to the same room as me ? :-)
>
>

Likewise and like every other young person I know, and quite a lot of the
not so young. Now where’s my new gramophone needle gone…….

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2021 09:16, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>> Oh, Lordy, I'm not that technical! I just want a phone and an extension
>>>>> both to work after I've been ported. But the BT HUb2 has only one
>>>>> (bright green) telephone socket which seems to be a potential problem.
>>>>
>>>> My HUB6 has not telephone socket so they will presumably to replace it?
>>>>
>>>> I think there is going a massive reaction against this change because
>>>> most people have a phone that was installed many years ago, they do not
>>>> want to have start messing around with it. If BT want to transfer them
>>>> to digital then it is up to BT to do any work necessary though I would
>>>> prefer to stay on a land line connection because I don't want to start
>>>> running mains extension leads around the house or having to an extra
>>>> mains socket fitted.
>>>>
>>>> It's even worse than the letters I keep getting telling me that I can
>>>> have a "smart" electricity meter as if it would be of some benefit to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> People can react all they like, but with nowhere else to take their
>>> business (ie to get a wire analogue phone service) it’s going to be
>>> basically adapt or silence.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> Then I'd have to tell everyone not to use my landline number, which is
> what most of them do currently.
>

That’s easily solved. Port your number to sipgate, make the answerphone
message “to reach Norman please redial 07xxxxxxxxx”. No charges other than
the one off £30 porting fee.

On 11/10/2021 15:06, Wilf wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 at 13:59, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 13:30, Tweed wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2021 12:58, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Homeowners have been responsible for everything after the master
>>>>> socket for
>>>>> many years.  All that’s really happening (effectively) is that the
>>>>> master
>>>>> socket is moving to your router.
>>>>
>>>> But not all routers appear to have a master socket, mine doed not have
>>>> one that I can see.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you have your current voice service via the same outfit as your ISP
>>> you’ll probably be given the option of a new router.
>>
>> What if your ISP is different from your landline provider? They'll each
>> say contact the other outfit.
>>
>
> Since this is an Ofcom-mediated move I'm pretty sure that that issue
> will be sorted out in good time.   I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Well, I was told, well over 48 hours ago now, that my service would
migrate within 48 hours, so it's upon us now.

Am I really one of the very first?

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 15:06, Wilf wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 at 13:59, Max Demian wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 13:30, Tweed wrote:
>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2021 12:58, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>> Homeowners have been responsible for everything after the master
>>>>>> socket for
>>>>>> many years.  All that’s really happening (effectively) is that the
>>>>>> master
>>>>>> socket is moving to your router.
>>>>>
>>>>> But not all routers appear to have a master socket, mine doed not have
>>>>> one that I can see.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you have your current voice service via the same outfit as your ISP
>>>> you’ll probably be given the option of a new router.
>>>
>>> What if your ISP is different from your landline provider? They'll each
>>> say contact the other outfit.
>>>
>>
>> Since this is an Ofcom-mediated move I'm pretty sure that that issue
>> will be sorted out in good time.   I'm not losing any sleep over it.
>
> Well, I was told, well over 48 hours ago now, that my service would
> migrate within 48 hours, so it's upon us now.
>
> Am I really one of the very first?
>
>
>

What exchange are you on?

On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has been
> mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
> be supplied with any required equipment.

I am sure that will have to happen. There are many people with even
less technical knowledge than most us. Some might have broadband but
only use it occasionally.

Most want a phone in several rooms around the house. I certainly do not
want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
payment.

The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
forgotten when I go out!

BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.

I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
to changeover.

Tony Gamble wrote:

> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the kitchen,
> one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>
> Seems a lot of sim cards.

just keep it in your pocket.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
>> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has been
>> mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
>> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
>> be supplied with any required equipment.
>
>
>
> I am sure that will have to happen. There are many people with even
> less technical knowledge than most us. Some might have broadband but
> only use it occasionally.
>
> Most want a phone in several rooms around the house. I certainly do not
> want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
> mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
> payment.
>
> The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
> forgotten when I go out!
>
> BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
> and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
> when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
>
> I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
> to changeover.
>
>

You can back feed your router’s analogue phone output into your existing
extension wiring. You can even get a special replacement master socket
faceplate if you want to do it neatly.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 12:35:03 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service beyond
>2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.

That might seem like a long time, but I reckon most people will know
nothing about this until the day it happens.

Which means that as well as millions of people with computers that are
insecure because Windows 10 is no longer supported and they can't be
upgraded to Windows 11 (more than 50% of them can't apparently), their
phones won't work either. 2025 will be a busy year.

Rod.

On Mon 11/10/2021 15:41, MB wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
>> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision".  I think it has been
>> mandated by Ofcom.  But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
>> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
>> be supplied with any required equipment.
>
>
>
> I am sure that will have to happen.  There are many people with even
> less technical knowledge than most us.  Some might have broadband but
> only use it occasionally.
>
> Most want a phone in several rooms around the house.  I certainly do not
> want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
> mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
> payment.
>
> The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
> forgotten when I go out!
>
> BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
> and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
> when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
>
> I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
> to changeover.
>
It is most certainly not for BT's benefit, it is a governmental (not
just Ofcom even!) decision.
Friends in Germany in a rural village have had direct fibre for well
over a decade as has the whole area, and they have a small interface in
the basement and an even smaller UPS that will maintain it for at least
12 hours.

On 11/10/2021 at 16:47, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 11/10/2021 15:41, MB wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
>>> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision".  I think it has been
>>> mandated by Ofcom.  But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
>>> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
>>> be supplied with any required equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure that will have to happen.  There are many people with even
>> less technical knowledge than most us.  Some might have broadband but
>> only use it occasionally.
>>
>> Most want a phone in several rooms around the house.  I certainly do not
>> want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
>> mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
>> payment.
>>
>> The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
>> forgotten when I go out!
>>
>> BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
>> and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
>> when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
>>
>> I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
>> to changeover.
>>
> It is most certainly not for BT's benefit, it is a governmental (not
> just Ofcom even!) decision.
> Friends in Germany in a rural village have had direct fibre for well
> over a decade as has the whole area, and they have a small interface in
> the basement and an even smaller UPS that will maintain it for at least
> 12 hours.
>

I think the reason is twofold. Firstly, for fibre to the premises, it's
the only option ... I think - no doubt someone here will tell me I'm
wrong ;) For copper pair the government wants to decouple phone
completely from line rental so that you can have BB without phone.

--
Wilf

In article <sk1m9o$bo0$1@dont-email.me>, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> On Mon 11/10/2021 15:41, MB wrote:
> > On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
> >> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has
> >> been mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when
> >> the time comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary
> >> information and be supplied with any required equipment.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am sure that will have to happen. There are many people with even
> > less technical knowledge than most us. Some might have broadband but
> > only use it occasionally.
> >
> > Most want a phone in several rooms around the house. I certainly do
> > not want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much
> > and mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any
> > online payment.
> >
> > The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
> > forgotten when I go out!
> >
> > BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
> > and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
> > when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
> >
> > I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
> > to changeover.
> >
> It is most certainly not for BT's benefit, it is a governmental (not
> just Ofcom even!) decision. Friends in Germany in a rural village have
> had direct fibre for well over a decade as has the whole area, and they
> have a small interface in the basement and an even smaller UPS that will
> maintain it for at least 12 hours.

I already have a small UPS for my modem/router. Then we can use
laptops/iPads duing a power failure.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>
> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
> Hub router.
>
> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?

Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
of some new package you're subscribed to?

On 11/10/2021 14:25, Tony Gamble wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
> kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>
> Seems a lot of sim cards.
>
> Or was your suggestion really a joke?
>
> Tony
>
>

You can actually get 4g/5g routers that offer a POTS port.... My Huawei
B593 offers this.....

I can use any SIM in this.....

http://www.3grouterstore.co.uk/3G/Huawei-B593-Rear.jpg

On 10:00 11 Oct 2021, Andy Burns said:
>
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> With luck BT will supply you with a voice re-injection frontplate,
>> so you plug the green phone socket of the router to the green
>> extensions socket of the faceplate, and your extensions will work,
>> if you want a phone near the router then you'd need one of the old
>> socket-doublers.
>
> <https://draytek.co.uk/information/blog/the-end-of-analogue-phone-lin
> es-pt2>

He writes:

"People who have analogue phone service need reliable service and
won't tolerate the type of quality which we put up with on a
contended service."

It will be interesting to see how well the workrounds (such as
priority flags on packets) overcome the inherently asynchronous nature
of TCP.

I get unwelcome audio effects using Android to Android voice apps, so
this needs to be markedly better than that if it's to replace POTS.

On 11/10/2021 15:53, Tweed wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
>>> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has been
>>> mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
>>> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
>>> be supplied with any required equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure that will have to happen. There are many people with even
>> less technical knowledge than most us. Some might have broadband but
>> only use it occasionally.
>>
>> Most want a phone in several rooms around the house. I certainly do not
>> want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
>> mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
>> payment.
>>
>> The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
>> forgotten when I go out!
>>
>> BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
>> and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
>> when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
>>
>> I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
>> to changeover.
>>
>>
>
> You can back feed your router’s analogue phone output into your existing
> extension wiring. You can even get a special replacement master socket
> faceplate if you want to do it neatly.

That's what I was going to attempt, so it's good to know that should work.

Thanks to everyone who has commented

On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>
>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>> Hub router.
>>
>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>
> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
> of some new package you're subscribed to?

No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
postcard.

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10:00 11 Oct 2021, Andy Burns said:
>>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> With luck BT will supply you with a voice re-injection frontplate,
>>> so you plug the green phone socket of the router to the green
>>> extensions socket of the faceplate, and your extensions will work,
>>> if you want a phone near the router then you'd need one of the old
>>> socket-doublers.
>>
>> <https://draytek.co.uk/information/blog/the-end-of-analogue-phone-lin
>> es-pt2>
>
> He writes:
>
> "People who have analogue phone service need reliable service and
> won't tolerate the type of quality which we put up with on a
> contended service."
>
> It will be interesting to see how well the workrounds (such as
> priority flags on packets) overcome the inherently asynchronous nature
> of TCP.
>
> I get unwelcome audio effects using Android to Android voice apps, so
> this needs to be markedly better than that if it's to replace POTS.
>

It all depends on whether or not your VOIP service supports quality of
service. If it does you won’t notice a problem. Our work phone system is
entirely tcp/ip based and works very well.

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 15:53, Tweed wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 15:04, Wilf wrote:
>>>> Actually, I don't know that it is "their decision". I think it has been
>>>> mandated by Ofcom. But in any case, I'm pretty sure that when the time
>>>> comes for any of us to change, we will get the necessary information and
>>>> be supplied with any required equipment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am sure that will have to happen. There are many people with even
>>> less technical knowledge than most us. Some might have broadband but
>>> only use it occasionally.
>>>
>>> Most want a phone in several rooms around the house. I certainly do not
>>> want to carry a mobile phone around, mine does not get used much and
>>> mainly for the horrible verification system when you make any online
>>> payment.
>>>
>>> The mobile phone sits on top of some books in the bookcase and is often
>>> forgotten when I go out!
>>>
>>> BT are making the change for their benefit, we do not get any benefit
>>> and a degradation in service, the worst being we not long have a phone
>>> when the power goes off and have to keep the router always powered.
>>>
>>> I suspect there are going to lots of letters to MPs when as they start
>>> to changeover.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You can back feed your router’s analogue phone output into your existing
>> extension wiring. You can even get a special replacement master socket
>> faceplate if you want to do it neatly.
>
> That's what I was going to attempt, so it's good to know that should work.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has commented
>
>
>

Have a read here

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_to:_Voice_reinjection

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
>> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>>
>>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>>> Hub router.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>>
>> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
>> of some new package you're subscribed to?
>
> No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
> postcard.
>
>

Who is your ISP?