Tony Gamble <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
> kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?

The amazing thing thing about mobile phones is that they’re mobile. It’s
entirely possible to carry them on your person.

>
> Seems a lot of sim cards.
>
> Or was your suggestion really a joke?

Many households have already given up their landlines for mobiles. It won’t
suit everyone for a variety of reasons but it’s an option.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Pamela wrote:

> It will be interesting to see how well the workrounds (such as
> priority flags on packets) overcome the inherently asynchronous nature
> of TCP.

SIP (over TCP) is used to "connect" the VoIP call, but then RTP (over UDP) is
used for the actual media, better to forget about dropped packets than report
them missing and hope the retransmission gets back to you before the audio
buffer empties...

Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tony Gamble <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>>
>> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
>> kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>
> The amazing thing thing about mobile phones is that they’re mobile. It’s
> entirely possible to carry them on your person.
>
>>
>> Seems a lot of sim cards.
>>
>> Or was your suggestion really a joke?
>
> Many households have already given up their landlines for mobiles. It won’t
> suit everyone for a variety of reasons but it’s an option.
>
> Tim
>

No problem, Digital Voice is a BT only name, when I was changed over to
digital voice BT provided free of charge a digital voice dect phone which
receives its wireless signal from the BT router and I used it to replace my
base station answering machine. The base station answering machine is now
located adjacent to the router and is plugged into the router analog socket
so all the previous dect phones I had in other rooms still work along side
the HD digital voice phone. The main difference is all messages are now
accessed via 1571 and not recorded by the answering machine. This
arrangement was set up in the summer but I do check my copper line from
time to time and there is still a dial tone so I assume Openreach will not
diss the copper until more subscribers change over.

On 11/10/2021 17:55, Tweed wrote:
> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
>>> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>>>
>>>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>>>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>>>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>>>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>>>> Hub router.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>>>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>>>
>>> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
>>> of some new package you're subscribed to?
>>
>> No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
>> postcard.
>
> Who is your ISP?

BT also.

On 11/10/2021 18:44, David Barnicoat wrote:
> The main difference is all messages are now
> accessed via 1571 and not recorded by the answering machine.

I don't like 1571, I like to see there is an incoming call especially
when it is a junk call. I can then decide whether to pick up the call
without them having to record a message.

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 17:55, Tweed wrote:
>> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
>>>> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>>>>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>>>>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>>>>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>>>>> Hub router.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>>>>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>>>>
>>>> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
>>>> of some new package you're subscribed to?
>>>
>>> No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
>>> postcard.
>>
>> Who is your ISP?
>
> BT also.
>

I think you’ll find it will work well in that case. Are you in Salisbury or
Mildenhall by any chance?

David Barnicoat <dave.barnicoat@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony Gamble <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>>>
>>> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
>>> kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?
>>
>> The amazing thing thing about mobile phones is that they’re mobile. It’s
>> entirely possible to carry them on your person.
>>
>>>
>>> Seems a lot of sim cards.
>>>
>>> Or was your suggestion really a joke?
>>
>> Many households have already given up their landlines for mobiles. It won’t
>> suit everyone for a variety of reasons but it’s an option.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> No problem, Digital Voice is a BT only name, when I was changed over to
> digital voice BT provided free of charge a digital voice dect phone which
> receives its wireless signal from the BT router and I used it to replace my
> base station answering machine. The base station answering machine is now
> located adjacent to the router and is plugged into the router analog socket
> so all the previous dect phones I had in other rooms still work along side
> the HD digital voice phone. The main difference is all messages are now
> accessed via 1571 and not recorded by the answering machine.

How does it stop your answering machine from picking up calls? Presumably
if you set your machine to answer before 1571 cuts in you’ll still be able
to use your own machine?

Besides, isn’t it possible to turn 1571 off?

https://www.bt.com/help/landline/how-do-i-cancel-bt-answer-1571-

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/10/2021 18:59, Tweed wrote:
> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 17:55, Tweed wrote:
>>> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
>>>>> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>>>>>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>>>>>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>>>>>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>>>>>> Hub router.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>>>>>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
>>>>> of some new package you're subscribed to?
>>>>
>>>> No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
>>>> postcard.
>>>
>>> Who is your ISP?
>>
>> BT also.
>>
>
> I think you’ll find it will work well in that case. Are you in Salisbury or
> Mildenhall by any chance?

No I'm not. Are they trial areas?

On 11/10/2021 17:07, Wilf wrote:

> For copper pair the government wants to decouple phone
> completely from line rental so that you can have BB without phone.
>
Virginmedia provide two connections to the house. One provides the
landline phone, the other provides the broadband and that also provides
cable TV if the customer opts to have it. So it is possible to have
broadband without a telephone service.

BUT - The broadband is offered with a discount if the customer also
takes the telephone connection, and the discount is exactly the same as
the cost of a phone line. So you pay an amount which is the same for
telephone and broadband as it is for broadband only. I don't know
anyone who takes broadband without telephone, because the landline is
effectively free if no outgoing calls are made. But it is possible.

Jim

On 11/10/2021 17:22, charles wrote:
>
> I already have a small UPS for my modem/router. Then we can use
> laptops/iPads during a power failure.
>

I had a UPS for the router and the desktop I normally use, and a USB
connection from UPS to desktop allowed the desktop to monitor the time
left in the UPS battery and shut down the PC tidily to continue to power
the router until the UPS battery ran out.

It worked perfectly on test - when I switched of the power into the UPS
it switched automatically to battery back-up, and switched back to mains
when I turned the power back on.

Unfortunately, when I had a genuine power cut it switched to battery
back-up OK, but when the power came back on it came with a big voltage
spike which buggered up something in the electronics. Everything went
back to mains power until the next time I tested by turning off the
mains to the UPS, it wouldn't switch to battery power, and everything
connected to the UPS died. I had had it too long to complain about the
fault, so it went to the recycling tip.

Jim

On 11/10/2021 15:17, Tweed wrote:

> Likewise and like every other young person I know, and quite a lot of the
> not so young. Now where’s my new gramophone needle gone…….
>

Whilst in the house my mobile is usually on charge in one room.
Landline phone is DECT with one base station with three handsets in
different rooms.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 18:59, Tweed wrote:
>> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 17:55, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2021 17:26, Pamela wrote:
>>>>>> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>>>>>>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>>>>>>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>>>>>>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>>>>>>> Hub router.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>>>>>>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
>>>>>> of some new package you're subscribed to?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's come out of the blue, first by a couple of emails, then by a
>>>>> postcard.
>>>>
>>>> Who is your ISP?
>>>
>>> BT also.
>>>
>>
>> I think you’ll find it will work well in that case. Are you in Salisbury or
>> Mildenhall by any chance?
>
> No I'm not. Are they trial areas?
>
>
>

Yes. The former is going entirely fibre, the latter is a hybrid of fibre
and copper, but all digital voice. The idea is to get the wrinkles out in
the processes before going more nationwide.

Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 17:07, Wilf wrote:
>
>> For copper pair the government wants to decouple phone
>> completely from line rental so that you can have BB without phone.
>>
> Virginmedia provide two connections to the house. One provides the
> landline phone, the other provides the broadband and that also provides
> cable TV if the customer opts to have it. So it is possible to have
> broadband without a telephone service.
>
> BUT - The broadband is offered with a discount if the customer also
> takes the telephone connection, and the discount is exactly the same as
> the cost of a phone line. So you pay an amount which is the same for
> telephone and broadband as it is for broadband only. I don't know
> anyone who takes broadband without telephone, because the landline is
> effectively free if no outgoing calls are made. But it is possible.
>
> Jim
>
>

I take their broadband without their phone line. It stopped being free at
one point. VM are also going to stop using the copper voice pair. Their
latest cable modems come with analogue phone sockets.

On 11/10/2021 23:40, alan_m wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 15:17, Tweed wrote:
>
>> Likewise and like every other young person I know, and quite a lot of the
>> not so young. Now where’s my new gramophone needle gone…….
>>
>
> Whilst in the house my mobile is usually on charge in one room.
> Landline phone is DECT with one base station with three handsets in
> different rooms.
>
I have a low spec wired phone in the master socket so that in the event
of a power cut there is a phone that can ring out and report it. There
is a DECT phone with its base station in the lounge, so that the handset
can be wherever we are from time to time, and there is an extension
phone with the ringer silenced in the bedroom, so that it is possible to
ring out but not be woken by junk calls in the middle of the night. My
mobile stays in the lounge unless I am going out; it is generally only
used for text messages.

I don't meet the VOIP assumptions in any way.

Jim

PS - I have a gramophone needle sharpener. :-)

On 12/10/2021 07:53, Indy Jess John wrote:
> I have a low spec wired phone in the master socket so that in the event
> of a power cut there is a phone that can ring out and report it.

I keep a wall mounted phone near the master socket so it can be quickly
plugged in if needed.

I don't think I have ever received any junk calls at night? Junk calls
seem to have quietened down at the moment but sure they will start again
one day!

On 12/10/2021  07:53, Indy Jess John wrote:
> I have a low spec wired phone in the master socket so that in the
> event of a power cut there is a phone that can ring out and report it.

I don't think I've ever needed to report a power cut this century. The
DNO's  telemetry is so good these days, that the power cut appears on
their service status page in under a minute.
(Here's looking at you BBC/Arqiva etc)

Of course if your individual connection fails, that's a different matter
(and good luck !)

Tweed wrote:

>Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:

>> BUT - The broadband is offered with a discount if the customer also
>> takes the telephone connection, and the discount is exactly the same as
>> the cost of a phone line. So you pay an amount which is the same for
>> telephone and broadband as it is for broadband only. I don't know
>> anyone who takes broadband without telephone, because the landline is
>> effectively free if no outgoing calls are made. But it is possible.

>I take their broadband without their phone line. It stopped being free at
>one point. VM are also going to stop using the copper voice pair. Their
>latest cable modems come with analogue phone sockets.

+1

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Mon 11/10/2021 23:17, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 17:07, Wilf wrote:
>
>> For copper pair the government wants to decouple phone
>> completely from line rental so that you can have BB without phone.
>>
> Virginmedia provide two connections to the house. One provides the
> landline phone, the other provides the broadband and that also provides
> cable TV if the customer opts to have it.  So it is possible to have
> broadband without a telephone service.
>
> BUT - The broadband is offered with a discount if the customer also
> takes the telephone connection, and the discount is exactly the same as
> the cost of a phone line.  So you pay an amount which is the same for
> telephone and broadband as it is for broadband only.  I don't know
> anyone who takes broadband without telephone, because the landline is
> effectively free if no outgoing calls are made. But it is possible.
>

More to the point calls to VM CS are free on their line. (For that
matter VM DQ also used to be free but I don't think it is now.)

Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 23:40, alan_m wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 15:17, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> Likewise and like every other young person I know, and quite a lot of the
>>> not so young. Now where’s my new gramophone needle gone…….
>>>
>>
>> Whilst in the house my mobile is usually on charge in one room.
>> Landline phone is DECT with one base station with three handsets in
>> different rooms.
>>
> I have a low spec wired phone in the master socket so that in the event
> of a power cut there is a phone that can ring out and report it. There
> is a DECT phone with its base station in the lounge, so that the handset
> can be wherever we are from time to time, and there is an extension
> phone with the ringer silenced in the bedroom, so that it is possible to
> ring out but not be woken by junk calls in the middle of the night. My
> mobile stays in the lounge unless I am going out; it is generally only
> used for text messages.
>
> I don't meet the VOIP assumptions in any way.
>
> Jim
>
> PS - I have a gramophone needle sharpener. :-)
>
>

The thing is, the copper network is approaching end of life, both the
actual multi core cables and the equipment in the exchanges. It is not
going to be replaced to keep a few people who can’t change their habits
happy. The fibre network will be much more reliable as it is much less
prone to issues with corrosion and water ingress. It’s much better for
carrying data, both in terms of speed and immunity from interference. Data
traffic is expanding enormously, whilst voice traffic is in steep decline.
Basic economics don’t support an analogue copper based voice network in the
long term.

Sometimes you have to adapt to changing circumstances.

On 12/10/2021 08:28, Mark Carver wrote:
> I don't think I've ever needed to report a power cut this century. The
> DNO's  telemetry is so good these days, that the power cut appears on
> their service status page in under a minute.
> (Here's looking at you BBC/Arqiva etc)

I have had very few power cuts here and usually checked that others were
affected so Hydro were likely to know. Our longest power cut is about
the only time I have listened to the local commercial station - it was
useful to know where was still open and I got close to going down to
town for hot meal and drink.

I have mentioned before a few years ago, BT had a major broadband fault
in Inverness which affected much of North Scotland but were unaware even
though many had rung their call centre.

It started on a Thursday I think and they only became aware on Saturday
morning when the person monitoring their Community Forum saw the
messages about it and rang their operational people for details and
found they were unaware - typical case of "the computers says OK so must
be OK".

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/10/2021  07:53, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> I have a low spec wired phone in the master socket so that in the
>> event of a power cut there is a phone that can ring out and report it.
>
> I don't think I've ever needed to report a power cut this century. The
> DNO's  telemetry is so good these days, that the power cut appears on
> their service status page in under a minute.
> (Here's looking at you BBC/Arqiva etc)
>
> Of course if your individual connection fails, that's a different matter
> (and good luck !)
>
>
>

You can’t get through if there’s a power cut, as everyone else is trying to
ring up…..

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Mon 11/10/2021 23:17, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 17:07, Wilf wrote:
>>
>>> For copper pair the government wants to decouple phone
>>> completely from line rental so that you can have BB without phone.
>>>
>> Virginmedia provide two connections to the house. One provides the
>> landline phone, the other provides the broadband and that also provides
>> cable TV if the customer opts to have it.  So it is possible to have
>> broadband without a telephone service.
>>
>> BUT - The broadband is offered with a discount if the customer also
>> takes the telephone connection, and the discount is exactly the same as
>> the cost of a phone line.  So you pay an amount which is the same for
>> telephone and broadband as it is for broadband only.  I don't know
>> anyone who takes broadband without telephone, because the landline is
>> effectively free if no outgoing calls are made. But it is possible.
>>
>
> More to the point calls to VM CS are free on their line. (For that
> matter VM DQ also used to be free but I don't think it is now.)
>

They are effectively free on my mobile phone too, since I have unlimited
voice calls. Paying for VM’s very expensive voice calls, either metered or
in a bundle, is not adequate recompense for the occasional call to their
customer services. Unless you have poor mobile reception, I can’t think of
a landline call package (excluding VoIP) that works out better value for
money than a mobile voice contract.

"Pamela" <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsADC0B176ACC3D37B93@144.76.35.252...
> On 22:03 10 Oct 2021, Norman Wells said:
>>
>> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to
>> Digital Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future
>> only work over the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug
>> the phone and plug it into a special socket on the back of the BT
>> Hub router.
>>
>> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me
>> please how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?
>
> Are you being required to make this change out of the blue or is it part
> of some new package you're subscribed to?

It's part of what internally BT call "21st Century Network"

Everyone will be moved to voice over the internet at some point in the next
few years

It could be you!

"Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message
news:ish2ocFg5rpU1@mid.individual.net...
> I've been told that BT are going to switch me over very soon to Digital
> Voice, which means that my landline phone will in future only work over
> the internet. To make this work, I have to unplug the phone and plug it
> into a special socket on the back of the BT Hub router.
>
> Has anyone else had this and dealt with it? If so, can you tell me please
> how it works (or doesn't) with extension phones?

I realise that this doesn't help you with your problem, but I'd be more
interested in knowing whether this plug point for your BT Router is in the
same place as currently or whether they are coming along and giving you a
new socket at some less convenient place in the house

"Tony Gamble" <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:isis9hFqjv9U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 11/10/2021 12:53, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Or just ditch the wire/cable/fibre connection and use mobile 4/5G.
>
> How does that suit people who have a phone in their bedroom, one in the
> kitchen, one in the living room and a couple on our desks?

buy cordeless phones