I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
Indeed, they are logical.

The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.

I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
being scanned.

Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.

It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>Indeed, they are logical.
>
>The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>
>I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>being scanned.
>
>Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>
>It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.

Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear in the larger airports.

But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the settings are too high, which is usually the case in
Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.

<https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>

On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>
>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>
>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>> being scanned.
>>
>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>
>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>
> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear in the larger airports.
>
> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the settings are too high, which is usually the case in
> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>
> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>

I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
strip down or even stop walking.

I'm sure that it will happen some day, though I fear that this is a ways
off.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>
>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>
>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>> being scanned.
>>>
>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>
>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>
>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear in the larger airports.
>>
>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>
>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>
>I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>strip down or even stop walking.

That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted,
presumably?) and then just walk through their own separate corridor.

>
>I'm sure that it will happen some day, though I fear that this is a ways
>off.

On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>
>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>
>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>> being scanned.
>>>>
>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>
>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>
>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear in the larger airports.
>>>
>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>
>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>
>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>> strip down or even stop walking.
>
> That's a long way off.

I fear that you are correct in this case.

On 08/08/2022 16:56, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at
>>>>> aeroports.
>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a
>>>>> bottleneck
>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or
>>>>> almost
>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in
>>>>> the
>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to
>>>>> make
>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags
>>>> that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll
>>>> appear in the larger airports.
>>>>
>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner,
>>>> having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>
>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>
>> That's a long way off.
>
> I fear that you are correct in this case.
>

Can I just put that case through the scanner?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>
>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>
>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>> being scanned.
>>>>
>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>
>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>
>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear in the larger airports.
>>>
>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>
>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>
>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>> strip down or even stop walking.
>
> That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted,
> presumably?)

On what basis would some passengers be considered trustworthy?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>
>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>
>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>
>> That's a long way off.
>
> I fear that you are correct in this case.
>
>

I don’t think you’d want the wavelengths used for the bag screening to be
used on your body. The millimetre frequencies used for the some of the body
scans won’t work on baggage well enough to detect nasties in a well packed
bag.

Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.

The failures at the body metal scan arch are deliberate - random failures
to keep the staff on their toes. Same goes for the bag scanner where random
fail images are added.

On 08/08/2022 15:27, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>
>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>
>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>> being scanned.
>>>
>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>
>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>
>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>> in the larger airports.
>>
>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>
>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>
> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
> strip down or even stop walking.
>
> I'm sure that it will happen some day, though I fear that this is a ways
> off.
>

Systems / schemes where the UK civil service have an involement (or
approval) rarely seem renowned for making life quick/simple for the
general public.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>
>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>
>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>
>> That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where
>> trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted,
>> presumably?)
>
> On what basis would some passengers be considered trustworthy?

The one I'm thinking of is a US program (sic), so I thought you'd be
familiar with it? It's called TSA Pre check:

How it Works

1. Apply Online
Submit the online application in 5 minutes or less and schedule an
appointment at any of 400+ enrollment centers.

2. Enroll
Attend your in-person appointment to provide fingerprints, supply
citizenship and identity documents and pay the enrollment fee.
Find an Enrollment Center

3. Enjoy TSA PreCheck®
Once approved, add your Known Traveler Number to your airline reservations
and enjoy your membership for 5 years. And online renewals are a great deal
at $70 for another 5 years after that.

Benefits

No need to remove shoes, laptops, 3-1-1 liquids, belts or light jackets
Expedited security screening. Most travelers get through Security in 5
minutes or less.
Enjoy benefits at more than 200 airports within the U.S on over 80+
participating airlines.
Children under 12 may accompany a parent/guardian with TSA PreCheck® on
their boarding passes in the designated lanes. Learn more about children in
TSA PreCheck® here.

https://www.tsa.gov/precheck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSA_PreCheck

On 08/08/2022 18:04, Tweed wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>>
>>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>>
>>> That's a long way off.
>>
>> I fear that you are correct in this case.
>>
>>
>
> I don’t think you’d want the wavelengths used for the bag screening to be
> used on your body.

No, indeed. Humans and that kind of electromagnetic energy are not
really compatible.

On 08/08/2022 21:24, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>>
>>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>>
>>> That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where
>>> trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted,
>>> presumably?)
>>
>> On what basis would some passengers be considered trustworthy?
>
> The one I'm thinking of is a US program (sic), so I thought you'd be
> familiar with it?

No.

>
> How it Works
>
> 1. Apply Online
> Submit the online application in 5 minutes or less and schedule an
> appointment at any of 400+ enrollment centers.
>
> 2. Enroll
> Attend your in-person appointment to provide fingerprints, supply
> citizenship and identity documents and pay the enrollment fee.
> Find an Enrollment Center
>
> 3. Enjoy TSA PreCheck®
> Once approved, add your Known Traveler Number to your airline reservations
> and enjoy your membership for 5 years. And online renewals are a great deal
> at $70 for another 5 years after that.
>
> Benefits
>
> No need to remove shoes, laptops, 3-1-1 liquids, belts or light jackets
> Expedited security screening. Most travelers get through Security in 5
> minutes or less.
> Enjoy benefits at more than 200 airports within the U.S on over 80+
> participating airlines.
> Children under 12 may accompany a parent/guardian with TSA PreCheck® on
> their boarding passes in the designated lanes. Learn more about children in
> TSA PreCheck® here.
>
> https://www.tsa.gov/precheck
>

Honestly, I thought that it expediated US citizens' entry into the
United States, such as by allowing them to use e-gates. I also thought
that it would also be useful for those who often travel between the
United States and Canada.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>>
>>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>>
>>> That's a long way off.
>>
>> I fear that you are correct in this case.
>>
>>
>
> I don’t think you’d want the wavelengths used for the bag screening to be
> used on your body. The millimetre frequencies used for the some of the body
> scans won’t work on baggage well enough to detect nasties in a well packed
> bag.
>
> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>
> The failures at the body metal scan arch are deliberate - random failures
> to keep the staff on their toes. Same goes for the bag scanner where random
> fail images are added.

Yes, on one recent occasion at Heathrow, I'd scrupulously removed all
metal, but still got the beep from the magnetometer arch, and had to go
through the body scanner. I expressed my surprise and was told that I was
one of the deliberate random fails.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/08/2022 21:24, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags that
>>>>>> doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll appear
>>>>>> in the larger airports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>>>> settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner, having
>>>>>> removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>>>> strip down or even stop walking.
>>>>
>>>> That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where
>>>> trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted,
>>>> presumably?)
>>>
>>> On what basis would some passengers be considered trustworthy?
>>
>> The one I'm thinking of is a US program (sic), so I thought you'd be
>> familiar with it?
>
> No.
>
>>
>> How it Works
>>
>> 1. Apply Online
>> Submit the online application in 5 minutes or less and schedule an
>> appointment at any of 400+ enrollment centers.
>>
>> 2. Enroll
>> Attend your in-person appointment to provide fingerprints, supply
>> citizenship and identity documents and pay the enrollment fee.
>> Find an Enrollment Center
>>
>> 3. Enjoy TSA PreCheck®
>> Once approved, add your Known Traveler Number to your airline reservations
>> and enjoy your membership for 5 years. And online renewals are a great deal
>> at $70 for another 5 years after that.
>>
>> Benefits
>>
>> No need to remove shoes, laptops, 3-1-1 liquids, belts or light jackets
>> Expedited security screening. Most travelers get through Security in 5
>> minutes or less.
>> Enjoy benefits at more than 200 airports within the U.S on over 80+
>> participating airlines.
>> Children under 12 may accompany a parent/guardian with TSA PreCheck® on
>> their boarding passes in the designated lanes. Learn more about children in
>> TSA PreCheck® here.
>>
>> https://www.tsa.gov/precheck
>>
>
> Honestly, I thought that it expediated US citizens' entry into the
> United States, such as by allowing them to use e-gates. I also thought
> that it would also be useful for those who often travel between the
> United States and Canada.

That's a different $100 program (sic), called Global Entry, which includes
PreCheck. Basically, it upgrades the US arrival experience to the normal,
free UK level.

In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.

I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
between the lid and the keyboard.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tcrf6e$1mac$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 17:55:42 on Mon, 8 Aug
2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 08/08/2022 15:29, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:27:43 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>><hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/08/2022 15:15, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:54:21 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>><hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand and agree with the need for security screens at aeroports.
>>>>> Indeed, they are logical.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the queues can create quite a bottleneck
>>>>> as well as being a pain and stressful experience for all involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thus wondering if there is anything in the works, or even a pilot
>>>>> programme, that will allow passengers to simply walk through whilst
>>>>> being scanned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Passengers would not have to take computers out of briefcases or almost
>>>>> literally strip, for example, just walk through a scanner as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would not surprise me if there is a pilot programme somewhere in the
>>>>> works or if authorities are working on this -- anything, really, to make
>>>>> the registration-to-boarding process more seamless.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there's a new generation of x-ray machines for carry-on bags
>>>>that doesn't require anything to be taken out of the
>>>> bags. I've encountered one in LCY, don't know how soon they'll
>>>>appear in the larger airports.
>>>>
>>>> But people still have to go through scanners, and most fail if the
>>>>settings are too high, which is usually the case in
>>>> Heathrow. So you end up getting re-scanned in the body scanner,
>>>>having removed absolutely everything from your pockets.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.rd.com/article/what-do-airport-body-scanners-see/>
>>>
>>> I was thinking that a passenger would need to simply scroll through a
>>> security scanner as is. No need to put anything on a conveyor belt or
>>> strip down or even stop walking.

>> That's a long way off. But I think some countries have schemes where
>>trustworthy passengers can register (and be vetted, presumably?)
>
>On what basis would some passengers be considered trustworthy?

A process of vetting, similar to that used for access to government
classified information. A sort of visa-on-steroids.

Including things like "we really do know where you live, and have
lived the last ten years, so you probably haven't just arrived from
a terrorist training camp in Syria".

As well as "we notice you live near the Canadian border, and have been
crossing it backwards and forwards about once a week the last several
years, so maybe now isn't the time to suspect you might be about to turn
into an illegal immigrant" As well as being a US citizen of course, so
that possibility doesn't even arise.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>
> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
> between the lid and the keyboard.

Yes, it's probably something like that. Maybe it's the battery that acts as
a shield? I was surprised that Norway now requires cameras to be removed
from bags, presumably for similar reasons.

There was a time when laptops, tablets and phones were treated as potential
bombs, and you had to be prepared to switch them on to demonstrate that
they worked, but that doesn't seem to happen any more.

In message <tct7ao$1bg8e$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:53:44 on Tue, 9 Aug
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>>
>> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
>> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
>> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
>> between the lid and the keyboard.
>
>Yes, it's probably something like that. Maybe it's the battery that acts as
>a shield? I was surprised that Norway now requires cameras to be removed
>from bags, presumably for similar reasons.
>
>There was a time when laptops, tablets and phones were treated as potential
>bombs, and you had to be prepared to switch them on to demonstrate that
>they worked, but that doesn't seem to happen any more.

Maybe after years of doing that, they realized they'd never actually
found one, so it wasn't a credible threat.

Hiding (or attempting to) bombs inside innocent-looking consumer
electronics is probably a very Lockerbie era thing.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tct7ao$1bg8e$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:53:44 on Tue, 9 Aug
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>>>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>>>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>>>
>>> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
>>> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
>>> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
>>> between the lid and the keyboard.
>>
>> Yes, it's probably something like that. Maybe it's the battery that acts as
>> a shield? I was surprised that Norway now requires cameras to be removed
>> from bags, presumably for similar reasons.
>>
>> There was a time when laptops, tablets and phones were treated as potential
>> bombs, and you had to be prepared to switch them on to demonstrate that
>> they worked, but that doesn't seem to happen any more.
>
> Maybe after years of doing that, they realized they'd never actually
> found one, so it wasn't a credible threat.
>
> Hiding (or attempting to) bombs inside innocent-looking consumer
> electronics is probably a very Lockerbie era thing.

Or maybe modern x-ray scanners can now detect potential bombs, and they're
flagged for hand inspection? One would expect their scans to look quite
different to a genuine device.

On 09/08/2022 09:43, Roland Perry wrote:
> A process of vetting, similar to that used for access to government
> classified information. A sort of visa-on-steroids.

Presumably the lowest level of vetting which I think just has a check
that the person is not in anyone's files.

Higher levels get very expensive with deeper searches and interviews
with the person and their relatives and neighbours. Not really
practical just to allow them to jump the queue!

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 09:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>> A process of vetting, similar to that used for access to government
>> classified information. A sort of visa-on-steroids.
>
> Presumably the lowest level of vetting which I think just has a check
> that the person is not in anyone's files.
>
> Higher levels get very expensive with deeper searches and interviews
> with the person and their relatives and neighbours. Not really
> practical just to allow them to jump the queue!

No need to speculate; I've already posted the answer:

How it Works

1. Apply Online
Submit the online application in 5 minutes or less and schedule an
appointment at any of 400+ enrollment centers.

2. Enroll
Attend your in-person appointment to provide fingerprints, supply
citizenship and identity documents and pay the enrollment fee.

3. Enjoy TSA PreCheck®
Once approved, add your Known Traveler Number to your airline reservations
and enjoy your membership for 5 years. And online renewals are a great deal
at $70 for another 5 years after that.

Benefits

No need to remove shoes, laptops, 3-1-1 liquids, belts or light jackets
Expedited security screening. Most travelers get through Security in 5
minutes or less.
Enjoy benefits at more than 200 airports within the U.S on over 80+
participating airlines.
Children under 12 may accompany a parent/guardian with TSA PreCheck® on
their boarding passes in the designated lanes. Learn more about children in
TSA PreCheck® here.

https://www.tsa.gov/precheck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSA_PreCheck

On 09/08/2022 09:36, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>
> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
> between the lid and the keyboard.

IIRC there was an American Al Qaeda member who had devised just such a
method of smuggling a bomb on board an aircraft. The person was later
killed in a drone strike in the Yemen.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 09/08/2022 10:13, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tct7ao$1bg8e$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:53:44 on Tue, 9 Aug
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to
>>>> remove
>>>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial
>>>> lane,
>>>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>>>
>>> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
>>> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
>>> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
>>> between the lid and the keyboard.
>>
>> Yes, it's probably something like that. Maybe it's the battery that
>> acts as
>> a shield? I was surprised that Norway now requires cameras to be removed
>> from bags, presumably for similar reasons.
>>
>> There was a time when laptops, tablets and phones were treated as
>> potential
>> bombs, and you had to be prepared to switch them on to demonstrate that
>> they worked, but that doesn't seem to happen any more.
>
> Maybe after years of doing that, they realized they'd never actually
> found one, so it wasn't a credible threat.
>
> Hiding (or attempting to) bombs inside innocent-looking consumer
> electronics is probably a very Lockerbie era thing.

Much later, see my other post.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 12:34:31 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 09:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>>
>> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
>> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
>> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
>> between the lid and the keyboard.
>
>IIRC there was an American Al Qaeda member who had devised just such a
>method of smuggling a bomb on board an aircraft. The person was later
>killed in a drone strike in the Yemen.

Wasn't he the one who created inkjet printers full of explosives, triggered by a low air pressure sensor? They were to
be shipped as cargo, and maybe AQ hoped they might go as belly cargo in passenger planes?

On 09/08/2022 12:50, Recliner wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 12:34:31 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 09/08/2022 09:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tcrfng$1004k$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:04:48 on Mon, 8 Aug
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Lisbon airport has had high tech scanners where you don’t have to remove
>>>> laptops and liquids since before covid. Heathrow did have one trial lane,
>>>> which I used, but I’ve no idea what has become of that.
>>>
>>> I gather that part of the problem with laptops is that they often use
>>> materials like titanium which might be very difficult to "see through".
>>> So a weapon could be concealed, sandwiched between a pair of them, or
>>> between the lid and the keyboard.
>>
>> IIRC there was an American Al Qaeda member who had devised just such a
>> method of smuggling a bomb on board an aircraft. The person was later
>> killed in a drone strike in the Yemen.
>
> Wasn't he the one who created inkjet printers full of explosives, triggered by a low air pressure sensor? They were to
> be shipped as cargo, and maybe AQ hoped they might go as belly cargo in passenger planes?

That's the one, Anwar al-Awlaki.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.