On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:

> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>> workers. The
>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>> maker which
>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>> charge more
>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>
>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>> how
>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>> done to
>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>
>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>
> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
> nothing.
>
> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
> Royce.

Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
introduced to the world:

* Double clicking
* Trash can (or the like)
* Graying out inactive items
* Checkmarks next to menu items
* Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
* Drag and drop
* Full file system in GUI (as icons)
* GUI based hierarchical folder structure
* Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
* The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
* Control panel to set system settings
* Pull down menus
* Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
* Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
associated with the file)
* Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
and done at NeXT)
* X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>
>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>> how
>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>> done to
>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>
>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>
>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>> nothing.
>>
>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>> Royce.
>
> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
> introduced to the world:
>
> * Double clicking
> * Trash can (or the like)
> * Graying out inactive items
> * Checkmarks next to menu items
> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
> * Drag and drop
> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
> * Control panel to set system settings
> * Pull down menus
> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
> associated with the file)
> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
> and done at NeXT)
> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)

All wonderfully magical to me! :-D

To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
airwaves!

On Feb 11, 2022 at 10:46:32 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<2ixNJ.14557$EjU2.11533@fx07.ams1>:

> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>
>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>>> how
>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>> done to
>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>
>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>
>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>> Royce.
>>
>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>> introduced to the world:
>>
>> * Double clicking
>> * Trash can (or the like)
>> * Graying out inactive items
>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>> * Drag and drop
>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>> * Control panel to set system settings
>> * Pull down menus
>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>> associated with the file)
>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>> and done at NeXT)
>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>
> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D

Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems tends to
handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube URLs to
VLC where they play without ads.

>
> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
> airwaves!

I did have an Apple IIe in the house when I was a teen. Loved it... though it
was my brothers and I only got minimal use of it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Feb 10, 2022 at 6:15:17 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.1hei3rzpmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>
>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>> it=E2=80=99d be a problem if it were true. as he=E2=80=99s incredibly
>>>>>>>>>> stupid and is, as
>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it=E2=80=99s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that Apple
>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively paranoid
>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we=E2=80=99ve always maintained that if we have
>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid legal
>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice. They have
>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other makers --
>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>> altogether.
>>>>
>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of workers. The
>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware maker which
>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to charge more
>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>
>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>
>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter how
>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little done to
>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>
> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.

Hunan rights matter to me... but good you see a weakness of a free market
without such restrictions, even if you have a hard time understanding the
weakness itself.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 11/02/2022 19:09, Snit wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2022 at 10:46:32 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <2ixNJ.14557$EjU2.11533@fx07.ams1>:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>>> done to
>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>>> nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>> Royce.
>>>
>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>>> introduced to the world:
>>>
>>> * Double clicking
>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>> * Drag and drop
>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>> * Pull down menus
>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>> associated with the file)
>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>>> and done at NeXT)
>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>
>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>
> Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems tends to
> handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube URLs to
> VLC where they play without ads.

VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program. It is not
available from the Apple App Store. There it offers MKPlayer - much the
same thing I believe.

>> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
>> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
>> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
>> airwaves!
>
> I did have an Apple IIe in the house when I was a teen. Loved it... though it
> was my brothers and I only got minimal use of it.

I had a BBC 'B' back in 1983 it was for my family - two teenage boys and
a young girl back then - and I hardly got a look-in!

On 11/02/2022 19:10, Snit wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2022 at 6:15:17 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.1hei3rzpmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>> it=E2=80=99d be a problem if it were true. as he=E2=80=99s incredibly
>>>>>>>>>>> stupid and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it=E2=80=99s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we=E2=80=99ve always maintained that if we have
>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid legal
>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice. They have
>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other makers --
>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of workers. The
>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware maker which
>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to charge more
>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>
>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter how
>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little done to
>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>
>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>
> Hunan rights matter to me... but good you see a weakness of a free market
> without such restrictions, even if you have a hard time understanding the
> weakness itself.

Most consumers value the safety measures taken by manufacturers.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:22:01 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>
>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>> how
>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>> done to
>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>
>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>
>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>> nothing.
>>
>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>> Royce.
>
> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
> introduced to the world:
>
> * Double clicking
> * Trash can (or the like)
> * Graying out inactive items
> * Checkmarks next to menu items
> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
> * Drag and drop
> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
> * Control panel to set system settings
> * Pull down menus
> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
> associated with the file)
> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
> and done at NeXT)
> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)

Start menu, worth more than all of those. Mac users are obsessed with using the desktop! I have nothing on the desktop. It's under the program I'm running, I don't want to have to go under there!

And if you want big lists, this is everything the Scots have invented:

Road transport innovations
Macadamised roads (the basis for, but not specifically, tarmac): John Loudon McAdam (1756–1836)[3]
The pedal bicycle: Attributed to both Kirkpatrick Macmillan (1813–1878)[2] and Thomas McCall (1834–1904)
The pneumatic tyre: Robert William Thomson and John Boyd Dunlop (1822–1873)[9]
The overhead valve engine: David Dunbar Buick (1854–1929)[10]
Civil engineering innovations
Tubular steel: Sir William Fairbairn (1789–1874)[11]
The Falkirk wheel: Initial designs by Nicoll Russell Studios, Architects, RMJM and engineers Binnie, Black, and Veatch (Opened 2002)[12][13]
The patent slip for docking vessels: Thomas Morton (1781–1832)[14][15]
The Drummond Light: Thomas Drummond (1797–1840)[16]
Canal design: Thomas Telford (1757–1834)[17]
Dock design improvements: John Rennie (1761–1821)[18]
Crane design improvements: James Bremner (1784–1856)[19]
"Trac Rail Transposer", a machine to lay rail track patented in 2005, used by Network Rail in the United Kingdom and the New York City Subway in the United States.[20][21][22]
Aviation innovations
Aircraft design: Frank Barnwell (1910) Establishing the fundamentals of aircraft design at the University of Glasgow.[23]
Power innovations
Condensing steam engine improvements: James Watt (1736–1819)[1]
Thermodynamic cycle: William John Macquorn Rankine (1820–1872)[24]
Coal-gas lighting: William Murdoch (1754–1839)[25]
The Stirling heat engine: Rev. Robert Stirling (1790–1878)[26]
Carbon brushes for dynamos: George Forbes (1849–1936)[27]
The Clerk cycle gas engine: Sir Dugald Clerk (1854–1932)[28]
The wave-powered electricity generator: by South African Engineer Stephen Salter in 1977[29]
The Pelamis Wave Energy Converter ("red sea snake" wave energy device): Richard Yemm, 1998[30]
Shipbuilding innovations
Europe's first passenger steamboat: Henry Bell (1767–1830)[31]
The first iron–hulled steamship: Sir William Fairbairn (1789–1874)[32]
The first practical screw propeller: Robert Wilson (1803–1882)[citation needed]
Marine engine innovations: James Howden (1832–1913)[33]
John Elder and Charles Randolph (Marine Compound expansion engine)[33]
Military innovations
Lieutenant-General Sir David Henderson two areas:
Field intelligence. Argued for the establishment of the Intelligence Corps. Wrote Field Intelligence: Its Principles and Practice (1904) and The Art of Reconnaissance (1907) on the tactical intelligence of modern warfare.[34]
Intelligence: Allan Pinkerton developed the still relevant intelligence techniques of "shadowing" (surveillance) and "assuming a role" (undercover work) in his time as head of the Union Intelligence Service.
Heavy industry innovations
Coal mining extraction in the sea on an artificial island by Sir George Bruce of Carnock (1575). Regarded as one of the industrial wonders of the late medieval period.[35]
Making cast steel from wrought iron: David Mushet (1772–1847)[36]
Wrought iron sash bars for glass houses: John C. Loudon (1783–1865)[37]
The hot blast oven: James Beaumont Neilson (1792–1865)[38]
The steam hammer: James Nasmyth (1808–1890)[39]
Wire rope: Robert Stirling Newall (1812–1889)[40]
Steam engine improvements: William Mcnaught (1831–1881)[41]
The Fairlie, a narrow gauge, double-bogie railway engine: Robert Francis Fairlie (1831–1885)[42]
Cordite - Sir James Dewar, Sir Frederick Abel (1889)[43]
Agricultural innovations
Threshing machine improvements: James Meikle (c.1690-c.1780) & Andrew Meikle (1719–1811)[44]
Hollow pipe drainage: Sir Hew Dalrymple, Lord Drummore (1700–1753)[45]
The Scotch plough: James Anderson of Hermiston (1739–1808)[46]
Deanstonisation soil-drainage system: James Smith (1789–1850)[47]
The mechanical reaping machine: Rev. Patrick Bell (1799–1869)[48]
The Fresno scraper: James Porteous (1848–1922)[49]
The Tuley tree shelter: Graham Tuley in 1979[50]
Communication innovations
Telephone: Alexander Graham Bell (1847-1922)
Print stereotyping: William Ged (1690–1749)[51]
Roller printing: Thomas Bell (patented 1783)[52]
The adhesive postage stamp and the postmark: claimed by James Chalmers (1782–1853)[53]
The Waverley pen nib innovations thereof: Duncan Cameron (1825–1901) The popular "Waverley" was unique in design with a narrow waist and an upturned tip designed to make the ink flow more smoothly on the paper.[54]
Universal Standard Time: Sir Sandford Fleming (1827–1915)[55]
Light signalling between ships: Admiral Philip H. Colomb (1831–1899)[56]
The underlying principles of radio: James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879)[57]
The Kinetoscope, a motion picture camera: devised in 1889 by William Kennedy Dickson (1860-1935)[58]
The teleprinter: Frederick G. Creed (1871–1957)[59]
The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC): John Reith, 1st Baron Reith (1922) its founder, first general manager and director-general of the British Broadcasting Corporation[60]
RADAR: A significant contribution made by Robert Watson-Watt (1892–1973) alongside Englishman Henry Tizard (1885-1959) and others[61]
The automated teller machine and Personal Identification Number system: James Goodfellow (born 1937)[62]
Publishing firsts
The first edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1768–81)[63]
The first English textbook on surgery (1597)[64]
The first modern pharmacopaedia, William Cullen (1776). The book became 'Europe's principal text on the classification and treatment of disease'.. His ideas survive in the terms nervous energy and neuroses (a word that Cullen coined).[65]
The first postcards and picture postcards in the UK[66]
The educational foundation of Ophthalmology: Stewart Duke-Elder in his ground breaking work including ‘Textbook of Ophthalmology and fifteen volumes of System of Ophthalmology’[67]
Culture and the arts
Scottish National Portrait Gallery, designed by Sir Robert Rowand Anderson (1889): the world's first purpose-built portrait gallery.[68]
Scientific innovations
Logarithms: John Napier (1550–1617)[69]
Modern Economics founded by Adam Smith (1776) 'The father of modern economics'[70] with the publication of The Wealth of Nations.[71][72]
Modern Sociology: Adam Ferguson (1767) ‘The Father of Modern Sociology’ with his work An Essay on the History of Civil Society[73]
Hypnotism: James Braid (1795–1860) the Father of Hypnotherapy[74]
Tropical medicine: Sir Patrick Manson known as the father of Tropical Medicine[75]
Modern Geology: James Hutton ‘The Founder of Modern Geology’[76][77][78]
The theory of Uniformitarianism: James Hutton (1788): a fundamental principle of Geology the features of the geologic time takes millions of years.[79]
The theory of electromagnetism: James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879)[80]
The discovery of the Composition of Saturn's Rings James Clerk Maxwell (1859): determined the rings of Saturn were composed of numerous small particles, all independently orbiting the planet. At the time it was generally thought the rings were solid. The Maxwell Ringlet and Maxwell Gap were named in his honor.[81]
The Maxwell–Boltzmann distribution by James Clerk Maxwell (1860): the basis of the kinetic theory of gases, that speeds of molecules in a gas will change at different temperatures. The original theory first hypothesised by Maxwell and confirmed later in conjunction with Ludwig Boltzmann.[82]
Popularising the decimal point: John Napier (1550–1617)[83]
The first theory of the Higgs boson by English born [84] Peter Higgs particle-physics theorist at the University of Edinburgh (1964)[85]
The Gregorian telescope: James Gregory (1638–1675)[86]
The discovery of Proxima Centauri, the closest known star to the Sun, by Robert Innes (1861–1933)[87]
One of the earliest measurements of distance to the Alpha Centauri star system, the closest such system outside of the Solar System, by Thomas Henderson (1798–1844)[88]
The discovery of Centaurus A, a well-known starburst galaxy in the constellation of Centaurus, by James Dunlop (1793–1848)[89]
The discovery of the Horsehead Nebula in the constellation of Orion, by Williamina Fleming (1857–1911)[90]
The world's first oil refinery and a process of extracting paraffin from coal laying the foundations for the modern oil industry: James Young (1811–1883)[91]
The identification of the minerals yttrialite, thorogummite, aguilarite and nivenite: by William Niven (1889)[92]
The concept of latent heat by French-born Joseph Black (1728–1799)[93]
Discovering the properties of Carbon dioxide by French-born Joseph Black (1728–1799)
The concept of Heat capacity by French-born Joseph Black (1728–1799)
The pyroscope, atmometer and aethrioscope scientific instruments: Sir John Leslie (1766–1832)[94]
Identifying the nucleus in living cells: Robert Brown (1773–1858)[95]
An early form of the Incandescent light bulb: James Bowman Lindsay (1799-1862)[96]
Colloid chemistry: Thomas Graham (1805–1869)[97]
The kelvin SI unit of temperature by Irishman William Thomson, Lord Kelvin (1824–1907)[98]
Devising the diagramatic system of representing chemical bonds: Alexander Crum Brown (1838–1922)[99]
Criminal fingerprinting: Henry Faulds (1843–1930)[100]
The noble gases: Sir William Ramsay (1852–1916)[101]
The cloud chamber recording of atoms: Charles Thomson Rees Wilson (1869–1959)[102][103]
The discovery of the Wave of Translation, leading to the modern general theory of solitons by John Scott Russell (1808-1882)[104]
Statistical graphics: William Playfair founder of the first statistical line charts, bar charts, and pie charts in (1786) and (1801) known as a scientific ‘milestone’ in statistical graphs and data visualization[105][106]
The Arithmetic mean density of the Earth: Nevil Maskelyne conducted the Schiehallion experiment conducted at the Scottish mountain of Schiehallion, Perthshire 1774[107]
The first isolation of methylated sugars, trimethyl and tetramethyl glucose: James Irvine[108][109]
Discovery of the Japp–Klingemann reaction: to synthesize hydrazones from β-keto-acids (or β-keto-esters) and aryl diazonium salts 1887[110]
Pioneering work on nutrition and poverty: John Boyd Orr (1880–1971)[111]
Ferrocene synthetic substances: Peter Ludwig Pauson in 1955[112]
The first cloned mammal (Dolly the Sheep): Was conducted in The Roslin Institute research centre in 1996 by English scientists Ian Wilmut (born 1944) and Keith Campbell (1954–2012).[113]
The seismometer innovations thereof: James David Forbes[114]
Metaflex fabric innovations thereof: University of St. Andrews (2010) application of the first manufacturing fabrics that manipulate light in bending it around a subject. Before this such light manipulating atoms were fixed on flat hard surfaces. The team at St Andrews are the first to develop the concept to fabric.[115]
Tractor beam innovations thereof: St. Andrews University (2013) the world's first to succeed in creating a functioning Tractor beam that pulls objects on a microscopic level[116][117]
Macaulayite: Dr. Jeff Wilson of the Macaulay Institute, Aberdeen.[118]
Discovery of Catacol whitebeam by Scottish Natural Heritage and the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh (1990s): a rare tree endemic and unique to the Isle of Arran in south west Scotland. The trees were confirmed as a distinct species by DNA testing.[119]
The first positive displacement liquid flowmeter, the reciprocating piston meter by Thomas Kennedy Snr.[120]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:46:32 -0000, wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products.."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>
>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>>> how
>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>> done to
>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>
>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>
>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>> Royce.
>>
>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>> introduced to the world:
>>
>> * Double clicking
>> * Trash can (or the like)
>> * Graying out inactive items
>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>> * Drag and drop
>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>> * Control panel to set system settings
>> * Pull down menus
>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>> associated with the file)
>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>> and done at NeXT)
>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>
> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>
> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
> airwaves!

I want to go back in time and show somebody my smartphone being 1 million times more powerful than a supercomputer.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 19:09:53 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 11, 2022 at 10:46:32 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <2ixNJ.14557$EjU2.11533@fx07.ams1>:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>>> done to
>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>>> nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>> Royce.
>>>
>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>>> introduced to the world:
>>>
>>> * Double clicking
>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>> * Drag and drop
>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>> * Pull down menus
>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>> associated with the file)
>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>>> and done at NeXT)
>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>
>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>
> Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems tends to
> handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube URLs to
> VLC where they play without ads.

Why not just play them in the browser like everyone else?

>> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
>> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
>> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
>> airwaves!
>
> I did have an Apple IIe in the house when I was a teen. Loved it... though it
> was my brothers and I only got minimal use of it.

Awwww were you bullied?

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:08:49 -0000, wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 19:09, Snit wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 10:46:32 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <2ixNJ.14557$EjU2.11533@fx07.ams1>:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>>>> done to
>>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>>> Royce.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>>>> introduced to the world:
>>>>
>>>> * Double clicking
>>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>>> * Drag and drop
>>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>>> * Pull down menus
>>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>>> associated with the file)
>>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>>>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>>>> and done at NeXT)
>>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>>
>>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>>
>> Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems tends to
>> handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube URLs to
>> VLC where they play without ads.
>
> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.

On 11/02/2022 20:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:46:32 -0000,  wrote:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit
>>>>> <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000,  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked?  https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull.  Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical
>>>>>>>>>>>> role in
>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little
>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA
>>>>>>>>> and, just
>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human
>>>>>>>> workers
>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be
>>>>>>>> fine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not
>>>>>> matter
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>>> done to
>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad to hear it.  Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>>> nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>> Royce.
>>>
>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>>> introduced to the world:
>>>
>>> * Double clicking
>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>> * Drag and drop
>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>>    so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>> * Pull down menus
>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>>    associated with the file)
>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>>    was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>>>    instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>>>    and done at NeXT)
>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>
>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>>
>> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
>> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
>> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
>> airwaves!
>
> I want to go back in time and show somebody my smartphone being 1
> million times more powerful than a supercomputer.

Wouldn't that be great?!!! :-D

In article <J3vNJ.126598$TXc5.42417@fx14.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> >>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
> >>>> Royce.
> >>>
> >>> yesterday you said the opposite. you're contradicting yourself again.
> >>
> >> No. Yesterday YOU misunderstood what I had said.
> >
> > nope.
>
> Yes.

nope.

> >> Go back and check.
> >
> > In article <UE5NJ.572034$hye7.552300@fx11.ams1>, David Brooks
> > <Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> The market for top-end products has diminished.
> >
> > your words.
>
> Correct. I'll have a go at rephrasing what I meant.

when you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging deeper.

> > apple is the first company to reach $3 trillion market cap, which means
> > the market for top-end products has *not* diminished. it's quite
> > strong.
>
> We both agree that Apple products are at the top end of their chosen
> markets. To my mind, the best that one can buy.

that contradicts what you say yesterday about people choosing cheaper
stuff. very simple.

> The Mac Pro is at the top of the tree. I 'repaired' one last year for an
> English professor (Mike) who lives nearby - sufficiently well for him to
> recover all of his data. I had never seen one before. I was most
> impressed with the quality of the whole machine; it still looked and
> felt like new but it was more than ten years old!

that would be the old cheese grater mac pro.

> Mike had decided to purchase an iMac as a temporary measure when he
> first encountered problems with his Mac Pro, even though he can afford
> to buy the best of the best. He was so impressed with the performance of
> his iMac that he decided that replacing his Mac Pro with a new one was
> simply unnecessary for the things he now does.

entirely irrelevant.

> Now that the iMac and iMac Pro are SO good, I suspect that sales of the
> Mac Pro have declined (but have not reviewed sales figures).

you suspect wrong.

the imac is an entirely different market segment (consumer) and while
the imac pro is high end, it lacks the expandability of the mac pro
(other than the trashcan model).

the mac pro has long been a high end niche product. most people don't
need what it can do, but for those who do, they can take full advantage
of its power and expandability, except the trashcan.

in 2013, apple released a cylinder mac pro that looked nice and fit in
a backpack, but its only expansion was externally, making it a big step
backwards. it also overheated. not surprisingly, it did not sell well.
it was made in texas, usa, but that had nothing whatsoever to do with
its failure.

<https://photographybay.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Mac-Pro-Expansion.
jpg>

high end users wanted the old version, but with modern parts. many
users wanted apple to replace the internals and keep the case.

apple heard that and redesigned the mac pro and, with an entirely new
version in 2019, similar to the old cheese grater and very expandable,
more so than the original.

but they still needed a solution for high end customers before the mac
pro was ready, which was the imac pro. it filled the needs of most
people who needed the compute power, other than expansion.

the m* series processors change just about everything. it will be very
interesting to see what the future of the high end macs will be.

> >> I have TWO Apple iMacs on my desk (here at home!) You are aware, of
> >> course, that a fellow Brit. designed them! :-D
> >
> > only part of it, and he's no longer at apple because he did not do a
> > good job.
>
> Do you have any EVIDENCE that Jony Ive didn't do a good job?

there is ample evidence that jony ive's designs might have been
aesthetically nice however, they were functionally deeply flawed.

there was a lot of internal controversy at apple, ending in his
resignation. nobody at that level is fired. they 'resign to pursue
other things' usually family, but in jony's case, a new company.

among jony's flawed designs include the apple tv 4 siri remote, the
'trashcan' mac pro as it's often called, the touchbar on macbook pros,
the removal of ports culminating in the 1 port macbook. the list goes
on.

now that he's gone, apple products have become much better.

the siri remote has been replaced with a much better version. the
touchbar is gone, and apple wasn't even trying to hide it when they
said the new macbook pros had a 'full row of function keys'. the
butterfly keyboard and its many failures is gone. peripheral ports are
returning. the new mac pro has returned to the cheese grater design
with incredible expandability.

> I wouldn't dream of buying the 'new' iMac though.

your loss, although a new version is expected soon, possibly next month.

> Read ....
>
> //We need an Apple Grey series, designed for aging users who don¹t have
> 20/20 vision, the manual dexterity of a brain surgeon and the patience
> of Job.
>
> Luckily this exists on some dusty Apple shelf. It¹s the 2011 version,
> unsullied by a decade of tomfoolery, luddite upgrades and studied
> disregard for computer ergonomics. Re-issue it, and I¹m willing to bet
> it outsells the current dog¹s breakfast.//
>
> https://www.timescolonist.com/islander/lawrie-mcfarlane-nothing-about-the-new-imac-is-simple-or-easy-4960187

what a load of rubbish. he's just another uninformed person rambling.

he complains the serial number is in tiny print. true, but it's easily
retrieved via a couple of clicks in easy to read type, which can then
be copy/pasted into a form or other document, at which point the font
can be changed to whatever size is needed. this is not new.

he claims the shutdown button is above the delete key. that is false.
that button is the touch id button, which can also be used to lock the
computer. he can also use another keyboard if he prefers.

<https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69167930/132_2021_04
_20_132_vlcscreen.0.jpg>

he wants to connect it to an apple tv, but doesn't know what the
airplay code is. he incorrectly thinks it's a universal code. that is
wrong. the code is generated by *his* apple tv box so that random
people can't connect to his apple tv without knowing that code and to
prevent him from connecting to someone else's apple tv, unless they
give him permission by giving him their code.

he complains that the mac is only usb-c. so are many other computers.
adapters are cheap, if needed, or just buy a different cable.

he complains that apple's adapter is $79, which is very much false
(it's $/£19), but if that's too expensive, he doesn't have to buy
apple's adapters. there are third party adapters for less than $/£10.
another option is a usb hub.

<https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/usb-c-to-usb-adapter>

he has absolutely no idea what he's doing and blaming everyone except
himself.

In article <lnzNJ.366172$9Y33.364459@fx06.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>
> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.

nope.

> It is not
> available from the Apple App Store.

so what.

> There it offers MKPlayer - much the
> same thing I believe.

you believe incorrectly. mkplayer is much worse.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:33:53 -0000, wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 20:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:46:32 -0000, wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit
>>>>>> <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> role in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little
>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA
>>>>>>>>>> and, just
>>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human
>>>>>>>>> workers
>>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to
>>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be
>>>>>>>>> fine).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little
>>>>>>> done to
>>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the value of
>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>>> Royce.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or NeXT)
>>>> introduced to the world:
>>>>
>>>> * Double clicking
>>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>>> * Drag and drop
>>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>>> so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>>> * Pull down menus
>>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>>> associated with the file)
>>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>>> was still held in memory even when not visible, making the redraw be
>>>> instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double buffering
>>>> and done at NeXT)
>>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>>
>>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>>>
>>> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
>>> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
>>> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on the
>>> airwaves!
>>
>> I want to go back in time and show somebody my smartphone being 1
>> million times more powerful than a supercomputer.
>
> Wouldn't that be great?!!! :-D

On 11/02/2022 20:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:08:49 -0000,  wrote:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 19:09, Snit wrote:
>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 10:46:32 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <2ixNJ.14557$EjU2.11533@fx07.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 11/02/2022 17:22, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 11, 2022 at 1:27:51 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>> <b6pNJ.584849$hye7.291063@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/02/2022 01:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit
>>>>>>> <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000,  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it’d be a problem if it were true. as he’s incredibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it’s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked?  https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull.  Microsoft has stuff like "Send
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> role in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we’ve always maintained that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little
>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other
>>>>>>>>>>>> makers --
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA
>>>>>>>>>>> and, just
>>>>>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from
>>>>>>>>>>> China
>>>>>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little
>>>>>>>>>> human workers
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> workers. The
>>>>>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware
>>>>>>>>>> maker which
>>>>>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely
>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>> charge more
>>>>>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still
>>>>>>>>>> be fine).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not
>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often
>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>> done to
>>>>>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Glad to hear it.  Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It sounds to me as if you know the cost of everything but the
>>>>>> value of
>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like
>>>>>> Rolls
>>>>>> Royce.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. And this goes back some time. These are all things Apple (or
>>>>> NeXT)
>>>>> introduced to the world:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Double clicking
>>>>> * Trash can (or the like)
>>>>> * Graying out inactive items
>>>>> * Checkmarks next to menu items
>>>>> * Keyboard shortcuts for menu items
>>>>> * Drag and drop
>>>>> * Full file system in GUI (as icons)
>>>>> * GUI based hierarchical folder structure
>>>>> * Editing documents with direct mouse manipulation
>>>>> * The clipboard (and later one with multiple versions of the same data
>>>>>     so you can paste plain text or formatted text, etc.)
>>>>> * Control panel to set system settings
>>>>> * Pull down menus
>>>>> * Desktop accessories (now known as widgets or gadgets)
>>>>> * Meta-data associations with icons (data about the data being
>>>>>     associated with the file)
>>>>> * Self-redrawing windows (at Apple) and later windows where the image
>>>>>     was still held in memory even when not visible, making the
>>>>> redraw be
>>>>>     instantaneous from the perspective of a user (called double
>>>>> buffering
>>>>>     and done at NeXT)
>>>>> * X to close a window (this is from NeXT - I was surprised by that)
>>>>
>>>> All wonderfully magical to me! :-D
>>>
>>> Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems
>>> tends to
>>> handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube
>>> URLs to
>>> VLC where they play without ads.
>>
>> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.
>
> Bullshit, it's the best video player ever made, I use it for everything.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:25:13 -0000, wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 20:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:08:49 -0000, wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 19:09, Snit wrote:
>>>> Some of that is natural progression... but to this day macOS systems
>>>> tends to
>>>> handle drag and drop better. My favorite examples is dragging YouTube
>>>> URLs to
>>>> VLC where they play without ads.
>>>
>>> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.
>>
>> Bullshit, it's the best video player ever made, I use it for everything.
>
> Noted.
>
>>> It is not
>>> available from the Apple App Store.
>>
>> Please don't tell me you use that shite. You do know you can install
>> anything from anywhere, right?
>
> I DO know that - but Apple advises me not to do so.

Oh my god....

Yeah well Tesco tell me it's best to shop there and not Asda....

>>> There it offers MKPlayer - much the same thing I believe.
>>>
>>>>> To be absolutely honest, ALL computers are fascinating to me. If only
>>>>> they had had such things when David was a boy! I made do with
>>>>> second-hand junk from Word War Two but loved listening for aliens on
>>>>> the
>>>>> airwaves!
>>>>
>>>> I did have an Apple IIe in the house when I was a teen. Loved it...
>>>> though it
>>>> was my brothers and I only got minimal use of it.
>>>
>>> I had a BBC 'B' back in 1983 it was for my family - two teenage boys and
>>> a young girl back then - and I hardly got a look-in!
>>
>> Annoyingly I had a ZX Spectrum. The colour graphics was abysmal in
>> comparison. You could only have two different colours per character
>> space. And it could only play one beep at a time.
>
> I was allowed a ZX Spectrum too! :-)

There should have been one computer each. I could only use the family Spectrum when my dad wasn't watching TV as there was only one TV. Amazing that nowadays TVs are free on freecycle.

On 11/02/2022 20:53, nospam wrote:
> In article <J3vNJ.126598$TXc5.42417@fx14.ams1>, David Brooks
> <Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Apple sets the standards which others try to emulate. A bit like Rolls
>>>>>> Royce.
>>>>>
>>>>> yesterday you said the opposite. you're contradicting yourself again.
>>>>
>>>> No. Yesterday YOU misunderstood what I had said.
>>>
>>> nope.
>>
>> Yes.
>
> nope.
>
>>>> Go back and check.
>>>
>>> In article <UE5NJ.572034$hye7.552300@fx11.ams1>, David Brooks
>>> <Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>> The market for top-end products has diminished.
>>>
>>> your words.
>>
>> Correct. I'll have a go at rephrasing what I meant.
>
> when you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging deeper.
>
>>> apple is the first company to reach $3 trillion market cap, which means
>>> the market for top-end products has *not* diminished. it's quite
>>> strong.
>>
>> We both agree that Apple products are at the top end of their chosen
>> markets. To my mind, the best that one can buy.
>
> that contradicts what you say yesterday about people choosing cheaper
> stuff. very simple.
>
>> The Mac Pro is at the top of the tree. I 'repaired' one last year for an
>> English professor (Mike) who lives nearby - sufficiently well for him to
>> recover all of his data. I had never seen one before. I was most
>> impressed with the quality of the whole machine; it still looked and
>> felt like new but it was more than ten years old!
>
> that would be the old cheese grater mac pro.
>
>> Mike had decided to purchase an iMac as a temporary measure when he
>> first encountered problems with his Mac Pro, even though he can afford
>> to buy the best of the best. He was so impressed with the performance of
>> his iMac that he decided that replacing his Mac Pro with a new one was
>> simply unnecessary for the things he now does.
>
> entirely irrelevant.
>
>> Now that the iMac and iMac Pro are SO good, I suspect that sales of the
>> Mac Pro have declined (but have not reviewed sales figures).
>
> you suspect wrong.
>
> the imac is an entirely different market segment (consumer) and while
> the imac pro is high end, it lacks the expandability of the mac pro
> (other than the trashcan model).
>
> the mac pro has long been a high end niche product. most people don't
> need what it can do, but for those who do, they can take full advantage
> of its power and expandability, except the trashcan.
>
> in 2013, apple released a cylinder mac pro that looked nice and fit in
> a backpack, but its only expansion was externally, making it a big step
> backwards. it also overheated. not surprisingly, it did not sell well.
> it was made in texas, usa, but that had nothing whatsoever to do with
> its failure.
>
> <https://photographybay.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Mac-Pro-Expansion.
> jpg>
>
> high end users wanted the old version, but with modern parts. many
> users wanted apple to replace the internals and keep the case.
>
> apple heard that and redesigned the mac pro and, with an entirely new
> version in 2019, similar to the old cheese grater and very expandable,
> more so than the original.
>
> but they still needed a solution for high end customers before the mac
> pro was ready, which was the imac pro. it filled the needs of most
> people who needed the compute power, other than expansion.
>
> the m* series processors change just about everything. it will be very
> interesting to see what the future of the high end macs will be.
>
>>>> I have TWO Apple iMacs on my desk (here at home!) You are aware, of
>>>> course, that a fellow Brit. designed them! :-D
>>>
>>> only part of it, and he's no longer at apple because he did not do a
>>> good job.
>>
>> Do you have any EVIDENCE that Jony Ive didn't do a good job?
>
> there is ample evidence that jony ive's designs might have been
> aesthetically nice however, they were functionally deeply flawed.
>
> there was a lot of internal controversy at apple, ending in his
> resignation. nobody at that level is fired. they 'resign to pursue
> other things' usually family, but in jony's case, a new company.
>
> among jony's flawed designs include the apple tv 4 siri remote, the
> 'trashcan' mac pro as it's often called, the touchbar on macbook pros,
> the removal of ports culminating in the 1 port macbook. the list goes
> on.
>
> now that he's gone, apple products have become much better.
>
> the siri remote has been replaced with a much better version. the
> touchbar is gone, and apple wasn't even trying to hide it when they
> said the new macbook pros had a 'full row of function keys'. the
> butterfly keyboard and its many failures is gone. peripheral ports are
> returning. the new mac pro has returned to the cheese grater design
> with incredible expandability.
>
>> I wouldn't dream of buying the 'new' iMac though.
>
> your loss, although a new version is expected soon, possibly next month.
>
>> Read ....
>>
>> //We need an Apple Grey series, designed for aging users who don¹t have
>> 20/20 vision, the manual dexterity of a brain surgeon and the patience
>> of Job.
>>
>> Luckily this exists on some dusty Apple shelf. It¹s the 2011 version,
>> unsullied by a decade of tomfoolery, luddite upgrades and studied
>> disregard for computer ergonomics. Re-issue it, and I¹m willing to bet
>> it outsells the current dog¹s breakfast.//
>>
>> https://www.timescolonist.com/islander/lawrie-mcfarlane-nothing-about-the-new-imac-is-simple-or-easy-4960187
>
> what a load of rubbish. he's just another uninformed person rambling.
>
> he complains the serial number is in tiny print. true, but it's easily
> retrieved via a couple of clicks in easy to read type, which can then
> be copy/pasted into a form or other document, at which point the font
> can be changed to whatever size is needed. this is not new.
>
> he claims the shutdown button is above the delete key. that is false.
> that button is the touch id button, which can also be used to lock the
> computer. he can also use another keyboard if he prefers.
>
> <https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69167930/132_2021_04
> _20_132_vlcscreen.0.jpg>
>
> he wants to connect it to an apple tv, but doesn't know what the
> airplay code is. he incorrectly thinks it's a universal code. that is
> wrong. the code is generated by *his* apple tv box so that random
> people can't connect to his apple tv without knowing that code and to
> prevent him from connecting to someone else's apple tv, unless they
> give him permission by giving him their code.
>
> he complains that the mac is only usb-c. so are many other computers.
> adapters are cheap, if needed, or just buy a different cable.
>
> he complains that apple's adapter is $79, which is very much false
> (it's $/£19), but if that's too expensive, he doesn't have to buy
> apple's adapters. there are third party adapters for less than $/£10.
> another option is a usb hub.
>
> <https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/usb-c-to-usb-adapter>
>
> he has absolutely no idea what he's doing and blaming everyone except
> himself.

I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to respond in a
comprehensive manner.

I'm hoping Apple will bring out a larger screen iMac which I may well
consider buying. This 27 inch Retina 5K machine is now four years old
so, by Apple standards, it is close to being life-expired.

In my opinion, you should also address your remarks about the article in
the proper manner. As mentioned therein .....

//To comment on this article, email a letter to the editor:
letters@timescolonist.com//

On 11/02/2022 20:53, nospam wrote:
> In article <lnzNJ.366172$9Y33.364459@fx06.ams1>, David Brooks
> <Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.
>
> nope.

Its website refers to Apple OS X

>> It is not
>> available from the Apple App Store.
>
> so what.

Apple recommends only to install software from .......

App Store: Allows apps only from the Mac App Store. This is the most
secure setting. All the developers of apps in the Mac App Store are
identified by Apple, and each app is reviewed before it’s accepted.
macOS checks the app before it opens the first time to be certain it
hasn’t been modified since the developer shipped it. If there’s ever a
problem with an app, Apple removes it from the Mac App Store.

App Store and identified developers: Allows apps from the Mac App Store
and apps from identified developers. Identified developers are
registered with Apple and can optionally upload their apps to Apple for
a security check. If problems occur with an app, Apple can revoke its
authorisation. macOS checks the app before it opens the first time to be
certain it hasn’t been modified since the developer shipped it.

>> There it offers MKPlayer - much the
>> same thing I believe.
>
> you believe incorrectly. mkplayer is much worse.

<shrug> I'm still learning.

How does one recognise an "identified developer"?

Is VLC such a developer?

In article <9NBNJ.18010$5Ta3.11126@fx05.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> >> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.
> >
> > nope.
>
> Its website refers to Apple OS X

its website also refers to windows, linux and android, because vlc runs
on multiple platforms.

it also shows that it's continually being updated.

you keep contradicting yourself.

> >> It is not
> >> available from the Apple App Store.
> >
> > so what.
>
> Apple recommends only to install software from .......
>
> App Store: Allows apps only from the Mac App Store. This is the most
> secure setting. All the developers of apps in the Mac App Store are
> identified by Apple, and each app is reviewed before it¹s accepted.
> macOS checks the app before it opens the first time to be certain it
> hasn¹t been modified since the developer shipped it. If there¹s ever a
> problem with an app, Apple removes it from the Mac App Store.
>
> App Store and identified developers: Allows apps from the Mac App Store
> and apps from identified developers. Identified developers are
> registered with Apple and can optionally upload their apps to Apple for
> a security check. If problems occur with an app, Apple can revoke its
> authorisation. macOS checks the app before it opens the first time to be
> certain it hasn¹t been modified since the developer shipped it.

the second option covers vlc, contradicting your claim that apple
advises not to use it.

> <shrug> I'm still learning.

no you're very definitely not.

> How does one recognise an "identified developer"?

secret handshake.

> Is VLC such a developer?

yes.

In article <7zBNJ.185237$_5r7.129006@fx09.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to respond in a
> comprehensive manner.

in other words, you admit you're wrong.

> I'm hoping Apple will bring out a larger screen iMac which I may well
> consider buying.

numerous rumours indicate that it's coming soon, possibly next month at
the event supposedly on march 8.

apple stated that the apple silicon transition would take two years,
which means it should be complete by fall 2023, assuming it began with
the first m1 macs in november 2021. some people think it's 2 years from
the original announcement in june 2021, which means by summer 2023.
supply chain issues may have had an impact on the original plans.

> This 27 inch Retina 5K machine is now four years old
> so, by Apple standards, it is close to being life-expired.

nope. apple products last for much longer than that.

the iphone 6s, released in 2015, is still fully supported, nearly 7
years later.

> In my opinion, you should also address your remarks about the article in
> the proper manner. As mentioned therein .....

it's not worth the trouble.

anyone reading it can tell he has no clue what he's doing. except you,
because you don't either.

In article <fnBNJ.143840$TXc5.77299@fx14.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> >> VLC appears to be an old and outdated software program.
> >
> > Bullshit, it's the best video player ever made, I use it for everything.
>
> Noted.

it's not the best.

> >> It is not
> >> available from the Apple App Store.
> >
> > Please don't tell me you use that shite.  You do know you can install
> > anything from anywhere, right?
>
> I DO know that - but Apple advises me not to do so.

no they don't.

In article <110220221822020311%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>
> apple stated that the apple silicon transition would take two years,
> which means it should be complete by fall 2023, assuming it began with
> the first m1 macs in november 2021. some people think it's 2 years from
> the original announcement in june 2021, which means by summer 2023.
> supply chain issues may have had an impact on the original plans.

i'm living in the future. i meant june 2020 through summer/fall 2022.

On 11/02/2022 23:24, nospam wrote:
> In article <110220221822020311%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> apple stated that the apple silicon transition would take two years,
>> which means it should be complete by fall 2023, assuming it began with
>> the first m1 macs in november 2021. some people think it's 2 years from
>> the original announcement in june 2021, which means by summer 2023.
>> supply chain issues may have had an impact on the original plans.
>
> i'm living in the future. i meant june 2020 through summer/fall 2022.

Nobody is perfect, not even you! ;-)

I'll be keeping an eye out for news.

In article <yjCNJ.185241$_5r7.122121@fx09.ams1>, David Brooks
<Davidb_tj@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> >> apple stated that the apple silicon transition would take two years,
> >> which means it should be complete by fall 2023, assuming it began with
> >> the first m1 macs in november 2021. some people think it's 2 years from
> >> the original announcement in june 2021, which means by summer 2023.
> >> supply chain issues may have had an impact on the original plans.
> >
> > i'm living in the future. i meant june 2020 through summer/fall 2022.
>
> Nobody is perfect, not even you! ;-)

before that, i was.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:10:15 -0000, wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 19:10, Snit wrote:
>> On Feb 10, 2022 at 6:15:17 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.1hei3rzpmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 02:01:40 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 4:25:25 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>> <FZCMJ.48674$hye7.40698@fx11.ams1>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:24, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 8:21:41 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>> <aUvMJ.363793$9Y33.142758@fx06.ams1>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 15:16, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022 at 3:44:14 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <2QrMJ.45146$sga6.5985@fx10.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 00:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:25:31 -0000, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 07/02/2022 03:44, Wolffan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> [....]
>>>>>>>>>>>> it=E2=80=99d be a problem if it were true. as he=E2=80=99s incredibly
>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid and is, as
>>>>>>>>>>>> usual, utterly wrong, it=E2=80=99s not a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple does not, and cannot possibly, monitor all Apple computers
>>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet. Only massively paranoid idiots would think that Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>> could or
>>>>>>>>>>>> would do any such thing. Oh. Wait. Our David is a massively paranoid
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do YOU have these boxes ticked? https://ibb.co/Zd7fdVy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those don't look harmfull. Microsoft has stuff like "Send 'anonymous'
>>>>>>>>>> (yeah right) usage data to Microsoft to improve our products."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mind you Apple state....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We believe that law enforcement agencies play a critical role in
>>>>>>>>>> keeping our society safe and we=E2=80=99ve always maintained that if we have
>>>>>>>>>> information we will make it available when presented with valid legal
>>>>>>>>>> process."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/government-information-requests/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple grass you off!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm happy with the Apple stance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The BIG mistake they made was to have the hardware made in arch-enemy China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately based on the macroeconomics they have little choice. They have
>>>>>>>> stepped in, at times, to back human rights more than most other makers --
>>>>>>>> which is not to say they do this enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Things have changed. Apple could build factories in the USA and, just
>>>>>>> like the Chinese, staff the factories with robots which Apple,
>>>>>>> themselves, could now design and build!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO, that is exactly what they SHOULD do - and withdraw from China
>>>>>>> altogether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How automated are the factories? If done with very little human workers
>>>>>> perhaps... but from what I understand there are still a lot of workers. The
>>>>>> cost of labor is much lower in China -- which means any hardware maker which
>>>>>> goes with a place where costs are much higher would likely have to charge more
>>>>>> (though Apple could also get a lower profit margin and still be fine).
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. I'm surprised that the US government hasn't stepped in to
>>>>> curtail Apple's involvement in China.
>>>>
>>>> The US government does not do much about such stuff... does not matter how
>>>> many jobs are lost here, and when jobs are here there is often little done to
>>>> make sure safety regulations and the like are followed.
>>>
>>> Glad to hear it. Things cost a lot more to make with safety.
>>
>> Hunan rights matter to me... but good you see a weakness of a free market
>> without such restrictions, even if you have a hard time understanding the
>> weakness itself.
>
> Most consumers value the safety measures taken by manufacturers.

I don't, it makes them more expensive and difficult to use. That's why I buy Chinese Ebay stuff that hasn't passed a safety test, and why I removed the safety guard from my angle grinder so I can cut closer or at difficult angles.