Champ wrote:
> ogden <eld...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >An inflatable alligator, a Ford Transit t-shirt, and a paperback copy of Doctor Zhivago, in Russian.
>
> >> Are you in a Secret Santa arrangement with a bunch of surrealists?
>
> >Dadaists, you'd think, but no, just the wife. Though the inflatable alligator was from my sister.
>
> Well that at least explains the alligator

I think it was meant as a replacement for the big inflatable killer whale that her kids killed when they were bouncing around the garden on it a couple of months ago.

> >I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>
> Learning Russian, eh? I tried that, prior to a trip in 2005. It's
> not easy! But I can still remember "2 beers, please"

Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'? I learned much the same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us, and I never made it to three in Czech. So I had to ask for two beers, wait til they appeared, and then as if I'd forgotten someone in the original order, ask for one more beer. I got a bit further in Arabic, but can't really see myself needing to use that to order beers.

On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>
>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>
Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent a
whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to be."
"Buit" with a soft t.

>> Learning Russian, eh? I tried that, prior to a trip in 2005. It's
>> not easy! But I can still remember "2 beers, please"
>
> Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'? I learned much the same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us, and I never made it to three in Czech.

Close enough. "Prosim" means "I beg you." Please would be "pozhalsta,"
but more difficult to pronounce. Three is simply "tree."

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'? I learned much the
> same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us, and
> I never made it to three in Czech. So I had to ask for two beers,
> wait til they appeared, and then as if I'd forgotten someone in the
> original order, ask for one more beer. I got a bit further in Arabic,
> but can't really see myself needing to use that to order beers.

You could try it at the Camel Club in the foreigner's secure compound
at Khamis Mushayt. But you'd have to hope the Filipino bartender
understands Arabic.

One type of beer- home brew. Surprisingly good.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 31/12/2021 20:11, Turby wrote:
> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>
>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>
> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent a
> whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to be."
> "Buit" with a soft t.
>
>>> Learning Russian, eh? I tried that, prior to a trip in 2005. It's
>>> not easy! But I can still remember "2 beers, please"
>>
>> Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'? I learned much the
>> same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us,  and I
>> never made it to three in Czech.
>
> Close enough. "Prosim" means "I beg you." Please would be "pozhalsta,"
> but more difficult to pronounce. Three is simply "tree."
>
>

Funny how we still want to translate the pleases and thankyous and yet
often in other languages they don't use 'em. (No idea about Russian).

--
/Simon

On 12/31/2021 1:28 PM, siwilson wrote:
> On 31/12/2021 20:11, Turby wrote:
>> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>>
>> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
>> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent
>> a whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to
>> be." "Buit" with a soft t.
>>
>>>> Learning Russian, eh? I tried that, prior to a trip in 2005. It's
>>>> not easy! But I can still remember "2 beers, please"
>>>
>>> Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'? I learned much the
>>> same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us,  and I
>>> never made it to three in Czech.
>>
>> Close enough. "Prosim" means "I beg you." Please would be "pozhalsta,"
>> but more difficult to pronounce. Three is simply "tree."
>
> Funny how we still want to translate the pleases and thankyous and yet
> often in other languages they don't use 'em. (No idea about Russian).
>
Strikingly so in Israel. I rarely heard the words spoken. They were just
assumed, I guess. Russian is more like English. You hear "spasibo"
(thanks) a lot.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

El Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:11:02 -0800, Turby escribió:

> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>
>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>
> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent a
> whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to be."
> "Buit" with a soft t.

I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.

Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).

> Close enough. "Prosim" means "I beg you."

Heh. In Latin, "please" is "I will love you".

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 01/01/2022 10:49, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
> Heh. In Latin, "please" is "I will love you".

So Celine Dion was saying "always please".

I don't recall "please" or "thank you" from Latin lessons, although the
lack of opportunity for using conversational Latin may have contributed
to that. "Salute" and "Vale" we did get taught though (lit. "Hail Rossi".)

El Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:01:29 +0000, Mike Fleming escribió:

> On 01/01/2022 10:49, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>
>> Heh. In Latin, "please" is "I will love you".
>
> So Celine Dion was saying "always please".
>
> I don't recall "please" or "thank you" from Latin lessons, although the
> lack of opportunity for using conversational Latin may have contributed
> to that. "Salute" and "Vale" we did get taught though (lit. "Hail
> Rossi".)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amabo_te

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 09:25:42 -0800 (PST), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> >I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the film is on iplayer, which might be easier.

>> Learning Russian, eh? I tried that, prior to a trip in 2005. It's
>> not easy! But I can still remember "2 beers, please"

>Something along the lines of 'dva piva prosim'?

I learnt it as "dva piva pozhaluysta" (which I see is similar to
Turby's version, rendering of Russian words in latin script being
approximate)

>I learned much the same before we went to Brno, except there were three of us,
>and I never made it to three in Czech. So I had to ask for two beers, wait til they
>appeared, and then as if I'd forgotten someone in the original order, ask for one
>more beer.

Lol! Couldn't you just look up the Czech for "three" on the internet

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 11:52:30 AM UTC-5, Champ wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:09:19 -0800 (PST), Ben Blaney
> <benb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:22:38 AM UTC, Champ wrote:
> >> In TOGs absence, I'll try to keep the tradition going
>
> >West Ham socks, a bag of mini eggs, and a visit from a valued old mate. Great to see you, pal! Thanks for stopping by.
> Aww. It was fantastic to see you and K (who is still looking
> gorgeous, btw). Really glad our timing and locations meant we could
> meet up

Brilliant to meet V. She is terrific. Think it's fair to say that both of us are punching above our weight...and long may it continue.

On 1/1/2022 2:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:11:02 -0800, Turby escribió:
>
>> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>>
>> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
>> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent a
>> whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to be."
>> "Buit" with a soft t.
>
> I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
>
> Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
>

Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

El Sat, 01 Jan 2022 10:14:44 -0800, Turby escribió:

> On 1/1/2022 2:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:11:02 -0800, Turby escribió:
>>
>>> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>>>
>>> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
>>> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent
>>> a whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to
>>> be." "Buit" with a soft t.
>>
>> I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
>>
>> Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
>>
>>
> Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)

So you can say "I will be fat" but not "I am fat"?

Actually, Tarzan managed quite well without one. "Me Tarzan, you Jane".
Works for me.

I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action is,
they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 1/1/2022 10:24 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Sat, 01 Jan 2022 10:14:44 -0800, Turby escribió:
>
>> On 1/1/2022 2:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> El Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:11:02 -0800, Turby escribió:
>>>
>>>> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>>>>
>>>> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
>>>> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent
>>>> a whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to
>>>> be." "Buit" with a soft t.
>>>
>>> I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
>>>
>>> Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
>>>
>>>
>> Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)
>
> So you can say "I will be fat" but not "I am fat"?
>
> Actually, Tarzan managed quite well without one. "Me Tarzan, you Jane".
> Works for me.
>
> I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action is,
> they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>
OTOH, in Russian, you have to specify not just whether you are going by
foot or vehicle, but also as a one-time thing, or regularly.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 31/12/2021 20:11, Turby wrote:
> On 12/31/2021 9:25 AM, ogden wrote:
>>
>>>> I've now ordered two Russian-for-beginners books, but I can see the
>>>> film is on iplayer, which might be easier.
>>>
> Good luck. I've got a whole shelf of them. Russian is as obtuse as
> English. Lots of irregular verbs, idioms, etc. Professor Stotzky spent a
> whole hour teaching 6 of us how to pronounce the infinitive of "to be."
> "Buit" with a soft t.

Back in 2013 I struggled with "water", despite there being no difference
in acents across the country, I was never able to ask for water. I would
give in and say "biz gazeous" and be handled a bottle. They would say
the word "voda". I'd repeat, they would nod and smile.

At the next fuel stop I would repeat the process.

Yet I never had any problem asking for vodka.

When I wwet back with Jean in 2017 I just let my phone do the talking.
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action is,
>they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)

Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
standard, nor (IME) common, usage.

Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed
at the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if the
meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Turby wrote:
> Paul Carmichael wrote:
> > I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
> > Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
> >
> Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)

Arabic has a similar quirk - something called subject-predicate. You don't say "the dog is black", you just say "the dog black". As opposed to "the black dog" (literally "the dog the black"). Took me a while to get my head round it at first.

No idea about non-present tenses, mind. I barely got that far. Which is ironic given the past tense is usually the first thing taught.

El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:03:05 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action is,
>>they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>
> Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
> standard, nor (IME) common, usage.
>
> Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed at
> the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
> possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if the
> meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/30874/when-can-the-second-verb-
be-omitted-when-there-is-a-modal-verb

https://angelikasgerman.co.uk/german-modal-verbs-without-a-second-verb-
really/

Quite a while since I studied German, so I had to look it up.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 2 Jan 2022 10:44:08 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:03:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>
>> On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action is,
>>>they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>>
>> Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
>> standard, nor (IME) common, usage.
>>
>> Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed at
>> the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
>> possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if the
>> meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.
>
>
>https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/30874/when-can-the-second-verb-
>be-omitted-when-there-is-a-modal-verb
>
>https://angelikasgerman.co.uk/german-modal-verbs-without-a-second-verb-
>really/

OK, yes, with certain modal verbs in certain situations where the
meaning is inherent, just like my example which would become "Ich will
in die Kneipe (gehen)".

But never on its own as you suggested. "Ich in die Kneipe" is not
correct.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 14:18:05 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 2 Jan 2022 10:44:08 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:03:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>>
>>> On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action
>>>>is,
>>>>they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>>>
>>> Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
>>> standard, nor (IME) common, usage.
>>>
>>> Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed
>>> at the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
>>> possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if the
>>> meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.
>>
>>
>>https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/30874/when-can-the-second-
verb-
>>be-omitted-when-there-is-a-modal-verb
>>
>>https://angelikasgerman.co.uk/german-modal-verbs-without-a-second-verb-
>>really/
>
> OK, yes, with certain modal verbs in certain situations where the
> meaning is inherent, just like my example which would become "Ich will
> in die Kneipe (gehen)".
>
> But never on its own as you suggested. "Ich in die Kneipe" is not
> correct.

I didn't make any effort at all to give an actual real world example. But
when I was learning German, I saw this a lot. Including without modals.

Maybe it was "bad" German. Blame Duolingo.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 13:37:20 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

> El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 14:18:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>
>> On 2 Jan 2022 10:44:08 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:03:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>>>
>>>> On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action
>>>>>is,
>>>>>they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>>>>
>>>> Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
>>>> standard, nor (IME) common, usage.
>>>>
>>>> Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed
>>>> at the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
>>>> possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if
>>>> the meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.
>>>
>>>
>>>https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/30874/when-can-the-second-
> verb-
>>>be-omitted-when-there-is-a-modal-verb
>>>
>>>https://angelikasgerman.co.uk/german-modal-verbs-without-a-second-verb-
>>>really/
>>
>> OK, yes, with certain modal verbs in certain situations where the
>> meaning is inherent, just like my example which would become "Ich will
>> in die Kneipe (gehen)".
>>
>> But never on its own as you suggested. "Ich in die Kneipe" is not
>> correct.
>
> I didn't make any effort at all to give an actual real world example.
> But when I was learning German, I saw this a lot. Including without
> modals.
>
> Maybe it was "bad" German. Blame Duolingo.

I remember chatting with a German visitor.

He was amazed that Spanish sentences often don't have pronouns. You walk
in a pub carrying a brolly - "¿Llueve?", you're asked. Yup. A one word
sentence. In German you can't say "Ich brauche Bier" without the ich. And
of course, as in English, "is *it* raining?", in German the dummy pronoun
is necessary "es regnet". I think so, anyway. You may know better, living
with the language.

I don't understand the insistence on pronouns in German when the
conjugation *normally* makes it quite clear (with context) who is who.
And they seem to be pretty strict with word order, even though it's
pretty heavily inflected.

Here's a question: When the English pronoun for I was ich, how was it
pronounced?

Must buy a motorcycle...

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 1/2/2022 1:35 AM, ogden wrote:
> Turby wrote:
>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
>>> Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
>>>
>> Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)
>
> Arabic has a similar quirk - something called subject-predicate. You don't say "the dog is black", you just say "the dog black". As opposed to "the black dog" (literally "the dog the black"). Took me a while to get my head round it at first.
>
> No idea about non-present tenses, mind. I barely got that far. Which is ironic given the past tense is usually the first thing taught.
>
A trick I learned when traveling in furrin places:
Rather than learning entire conjugations of verbs, you only need to know
the infinitive, and combine it with, I want to, I need to, I should,
etc. Then you only need to learn those few.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 2 Jan 2022 17:28:56 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I remember chatting with a German visitor.
>
>He was amazed that Spanish sentences often don't have pronouns. You walk
>in a pub carrying a brolly - "¿Llueve?", you're asked. Yup. A one word
>sentence. In German you can't say "Ich brauche Bier" without the ich. And
>of course, as in English, "is *it* raining?", in German the dummy pronoun
>is necessary "es regnet". I think so, anyway. You may know better, living
>with the language.

Yes, German, and French, follow the same sort of logic as English in
both if those cases, The pronoun thing is similar in Italian and
possibly other languages close to Latin, which I think is the same in
that regard.

>I don't understand the insistence on pronouns in German when the
>conjugation *normally* makes it quite clear (with context) who is who.
>And they seem to be pretty strict with word order, even though it's
>pretty heavily inflected.

Yes, it's always struck me as a belt and braces language. The strict
usages of case endings on nouns, pronouns and adjectives _should_
render the word order irrelevant, and yet they remain strict about
that too. If you look closely though, there are examples where their
word order, often inverted as it is, would not, on its own, be
completely clear without the inflection.

Why that is the case I do not know, and it makes it, in my view, the
hardest of all European languages to learn. Well, not just the
inflection and the conflated word order, but also the massive use of
prefixes to alter verb meanings, making it almost impossible for a
novice learner to simply look things up in a dictionary to get a rough
idea (i.e. if you don't know that the first part of the word is not
actually part of the verb you need to translate, but simply changes
its sense).

I was teaching a child in German a couple of days ago, as it happens,
but managed to make him laugh with my flawed (and unpracticed) German.
Made myself understood though, which is the important thing.

>Here's a question: When the English pronoun for I was ich, how was it
>pronounced?

We don't really know that much about Old or even Middle English
pronunciation in general, and some of our everyday assumptions about
letter sounds, particularly vowels, are a long way away from what
would have been familiar a few hundred years ago. So meh!

>Must buy a motorcycle...

Who?
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 02/01/2022 17:28, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 13:37:20 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:
>
>> El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 14:18:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>>
>>> On 2 Jan 2022 10:44:08 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> El Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:03:05 +0100, Ace escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1 Jan 2022 18:24:15 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I quite like that aspect of German - if it's obvious what the action
>>>>>> is,
>>>>>> they just leave the verb out. "I to pub. Bye" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Not quite sure where you got that nugget from, but it's certainly not
>>>>> standard, nor (IME) common, usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depending on the tanse and intention, the infinitive is often placed
>>>>> at the end of the sentence, like 'I want to the pub to go' so it's
>>>>> possible, I suppose, that lazy speakers might just leave it off if
>>>>> the meaning is clear, but I have never come across such usage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/30874/when-can-the-second-
>> verb-
>>>> be-omitted-when-there-is-a-modal-verb
>>>>
>>>> https://angelikasgerman.co.uk/german-modal-verbs-without-a-second-verb-
>>>> really/
>>>
>>> OK, yes, with certain modal verbs in certain situations where the
>>> meaning is inherent, just like my example which would become "Ich will
>>> in die Kneipe (gehen)".
>>>
>>> But never on its own as you suggested. "Ich in die Kneipe" is not
>>> correct.
>>
>> I didn't make any effort at all to give an actual real world example.
>> But when I was learning German, I saw this a lot. Including without
>> modals.
>>
>> Maybe it was "bad" German. Blame Duolingo.
>
> I remember chatting with a German visitor.
>
> He was amazed that Spanish sentences often don't have pronouns. You walk
> in a pub carrying a brolly - "¿Llueve?", you're asked. Yup. A one word
> sentence. In German you can't say "Ich brauche Bier" without the ich. And
> of course, as in English, "is *it* raining?", in German the dummy pronoun
> is necessary "es regnet". I think so, anyway. You may know better, living
> with the language.
>
> I don't understand the insistence on pronouns in German when the
> conjugation *normally* makes it quite clear (with context) who is who.
> And they seem to be pretty strict with word order, even though it's
> pretty heavily inflected.
>
> Here's a question: When the English pronoun for I was ich, how was it
> pronounced?
>
> Must buy a motorcycle...
>

debe comprar una moto
muss ein Motorrad kaufen

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 03/01/2022 09:46, Ace wrote:
> On 2 Jan 2022 17:28:56 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here's a question: When the English pronoun for I was ich, how was it
>> pronounced?
>
> We don't really know that much about Old or even Middle English
> pronunciation in general, and some of our everyday assumptions about
> letter sounds, particularly vowels, are a long way away from what
> would have been familiar a few hundred years ago. So meh!

"ich" wouldn't be an issue to pronounce in Scotland I'm guessing?
At least I am assuming that it would be the same as the middle two
letters of my surname?
- Ie as you would pronounce them in the German 'nacht'.
Coincidentally...
However, as you observe, this sound isn't used in current English
anywhere as far as I know.
HTH
Chris D

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 02/01/2022 19:35, Turby wrote:
> On 1/2/2022 1:35 AM, ogden wrote:
>> Turby wrote:
>>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>> I was told that Rusky doesn't have a verb of being.
>>>> Spanish, on the other hand... (ser, estar, quedar, haber...).
>>>>
>>> Present tense, perhaps, but every other tense, it does. (budu, bwil...)
>>
>> Arabic has a similar quirk - something called subject-predicate. You
>> don't say "the dog is black", you just say "the dog black". As opposed
>> to "the black dog" (literally "the dog the black"). Took me a while to
>> get my head round it at first.
>>
>> No idea about non-present tenses, mind. I barely got that far. Which
>> is ironic given the past tense is usually the first thing taught.
>>
> A trick I learned when traveling in furrin places:
> Rather than learning entire conjugations of verbs, you only need to know
> the infinitive, and combine it with, I want to, I need to, I should,
> etc. Then you only need to learn those few.
>
Preceeded by "Hey baby..." presumably?
:-)

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk