On 13/01/2022 17:40, Champ wrote:
> Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:

>>>> A short piece of one of the Ronettes tracks was played on the BBC radio
>>>> news this morning, instantly taking me back to the caffs, coffee bars,
>>>> and biker transport caffs of the early sixties.

>>> Blimey, if you have memories of that then perhaps you're the oldest
>>> member of UKRM!

>> <gulp>

>> First rode a bike in our (long) back garden, I think that would be 1957
>> - I'd be 13 at the time. Could just get it into 2nd gear (hand change)
>> before braking.

> <sums> So you turn 78 this year? You're 2 or 3 ahead of Pete Fisher,
> then. Might be the same age as crn

Not sure that that's something I'd like to win LOL.

>> Took the same bike on the road on my 16th birthday, but waited two years
>> 'til I got a proper bike (Velocette Venom) before turning up at the
>> Busy Bee transport caff (Watford), a nice ride out on a summer evening.

> I was 16 annahalf before I got on any powered 2-wheeler. And wasn't
> exactly a natural - I crashed within the first hour, and I remember it
> being a couple of weeks before I could reliably pull away without
> stalling it. But I got there in the end :-)

All that riding in the back garden got me sorted on clutch and throttle
control together with gear-changing, as well as manoeuvring in tight
spaces, so when I did hit the road that was all sorted, Sort of CBT
without the C...

--
Spike

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:00:27 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 13/01/2022 18:06, wessie wrote:

>> "ChrisND @UKRM" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in
>> news:j4b16kFdlldU1@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>> On 13/01/2022 13:53, wessie wrote:
>>
>>>> [1] this album
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Threshold_of_a_Dream that my
>>>> sister bought dates the period to 1969. Sounds about right. My
>>>> introduction to prog rock...
>>>>
>>> Hmmm, I never quite thought the Moddy Blues fitted the 'prog rock'
>>> idiom - always seemed far too 'commercially aware'!

I'm not sure why you think that prog rock shouldn't be commercial.
Yes, the "art for art's sake" ethic means that it doesn't necessarily
have to be, but music doesn't suddenly skip in or out of a genre based
on currect trends of what's deemed commercial at any given time.

FWIW I do think the Moodies from that period fell very much within the
prog rock definition.

>> https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/readers-poll-the-best-prog-rock-bands-of-all-time-17276/2-pink-floyd-12221/
>>
>> the top 10 in that list would suggest there is considerable overlap
>> in the Venn diagram of bands fitting those two criteria.
>
>I have never thought of Rush as Prog Rock

Me neither; it's a deeply flawed[1] list. American, of course, which
may account for it to some degree.

I'd never actually heard of the first three on the list, and the rest
simply shows a lack of understanding on the part of the polled RS
readership of what prog rock is, or isn't.

[1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
in it, for a start.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
news:e2h2ugld1uaf3dt39g5e6vmaua6o379re5@4ax.com:

>
> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
> in it, for a start.

now you've triggered nostalgia. I think they were my first introduction to
the Mellotron

my oldest sister was a big fan and I listened to Everyone Is Everybody Else
when 11 years and was hooked.

Must look them up on Spotify...

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:15:52 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>news:e2h2ugld1uaf3dt39g5e6vmaua6o379re5@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
>> in it, for a start.
>
>now you've triggered nostalgia. I think they were my first introduction to
>the Mellotron
>
>my oldest sister was a big fan and I listened to Everyone Is Everybody Else
>when 11 years and was hooked.
>
>Must look them up on Spotify...

The album Octoberon is a true masterpiece; was my first exposure to
them, back when I was in the Merchant Navy and one of the other cadets
had it on cassette. Still sounds just as good forty years on.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 13/01/2022 16:42, Turby wrote:
> On 1/13/2022 2:53 AM, crn@nospam.com wrote:
>> Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ronnie Spector, the leader of The Ronettes, has died at the age of 78
>>>
>>> <https://www.uncut.co.uk/news/the-ronettes-icon-ronnie-spector-died-136447/>
>>>
>>>
>>> A short piece of one of the Ronettes tracks was played on the BBC radio
>>> news this morning, instantly taking me back to the caffs, coffee bars,
>>> and biker transport caffs of the early sixties.
>>
>> If you can remember the sixties you were not part of it.
>>
> I first dropped LSD on March 17, 1967 in Monterey, California. Three
> months later I went to the Monterey Pop Festival and watched Jimi
> Hendrix masturbate his guitar, then set it on fire in his first concert
> in the US. He was followed by the Who, who trashed their instruments,
> too. Good memories.
>
Wow, excellent!
I remember seeing the concert on tv. My overriding memory though is of
the Animals (NOT the R Stones) version of 'Paint it Black' - which
nobody else seems to have noticed let alone remembered - apart from the
nice person who stuck it on youtube somewhere I have forgotten.
A perspex violin - amazing!

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 14/01/2022 09:48, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:00:27 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 13/01/2022 18:06, wessie wrote:
>
>>> "ChrisND @UKRM" <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote in
>>> news:j4b16kFdlldU1@mid.individual.net:
>>>
>>>> On 13/01/2022 13:53, wessie wrote:
>>>
>>>>> [1] this album
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Threshold_of_a_Dream that my
>>>>> sister bought dates the period to 1969. Sounds about right. My
>>>>> introduction to prog rock...
>>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, I never quite thought the Moddy Blues fitted the 'prog rock'
>>>> idiom - always seemed far too 'commercially aware'!
>
> I'm not sure why you think that prog rock shouldn't be commercial.
> Yes, the "art for art's sake" ethic means that it doesn't necessarily
> have to be, but music doesn't suddenly skip in or out of a genre based
> on currect trends of what's deemed commercial at any given time.

I think prog rock *became* commercial for each successful band that a
record promoter somewhere initially went out on a limb for. I don't
think any of them started out that way?

> FWIW I do think the Moodies from that period fell very much within the
> prog rock definition.

Horses for courses etc but I think the Moodies started out pop, had a
bit of a foray into prog and then ended up purely commercial with a
mixture of both. I had a GF in the 80s who was their biggest fan <G> so
I am probably biased in some way :-/

>>> https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/readers-poll-the-best-prog-rock-bands-of-all-time-17276/2-pink-floyd-12221/
>>>
>>> the top 10 in that list would suggest there is considerable overlap
>>> in the Venn diagram of bands fitting those two criteria.

Agreed - but probably because of the next bit below ...

> Me neither; it's a deeply flawed[1] list. American, of course, which
> may account for it to some degree.
>
> I'd never actually heard of the first three on the list, and the rest
> simply shows a lack of understanding on the part of the polled RS
> readership of what prog rock is, or isn't.
>
>
> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
> in it, for a start.
>
And no Led Zep?

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:59:05 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
<chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 14/01/2022 09:48, Ace wrote:

>> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
>> in it, for a start.
>>
>And no Led Zep?

Not in my book, no.

Of course that's the trouble with trying to define music genres,
especially 40+ years after the event, but I think that one of the
defining factors of prog was its use of 'new' instruments and styles,
and much as I love Led Zep, their classic bass/guitar/drum lineup was
very much at the heart of the non-prog rock sound.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 07:40:45 UTC, Pete Fisher wrote:
> I never went there when it was a Little Chef or was it a 'Grim Consumer'
> (Happy Eater).

I thought the 'Happy Eater' sign was in fact someone putting their fingers
down their throat.

And, fuck me, they closed down in 1997. Jesus, where's my life gone?

On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 09:00:29 UTC, YTC#1 wrote:

> I have never thought of Rush as Prog Rock

Did you ever listen to 2112? Not sure how that could be anything *but* prog.

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
news:vok2ug9eec512oluapme8dldq9tpn0lff7@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:15:52 -0000 (UTC), wessie
> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>>Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>>news:e2h2ugld1uaf3dt39g5e6vmaua6o379re5@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James
>>> Harvest in it, for a start.
>>
>>now you've triggered nostalgia. I think they were my first
>>introduction to the Mellotron
>>
>>my oldest sister was a big fan and I listened to Everyone Is Everybody
>>Else when 11 years and was hooked.
>>
>>Must look them up on Spotify...
>
> The album Octoberon is a true masterpiece; was my first exposure to
> them, back when I was in the Merchant Navy and one of the other cadets
> had it on cassette. Still sounds just as good forty years on.
>

I had Time Honoured Ghosts that came before Octoberon.

I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few others, I
proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected as Librarian so
I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered them accordingly. I then
got to take the whole lot home in the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90
tapes.

On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 12:38:14 UTC, wessie wrote:

> I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few others, I
> proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected as Librarian so
> I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered them accordingly. I then
> got to take the whole lot home in the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90
> tapes.

So it was you that was killing music.

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8b75d6e8-532d-4d67-9cdf-772c0419dd96n@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 12:38:14 UTC, wessie wrote:
>
>> I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few
>> others, I proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected
>> as Librarian so I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered
>> them accordingly. I then got to take the whole lot home in the summer
>> holidays. I used a lot of C90 tapes.
>
> So it was you that was killing music.
>

pooling resources

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:39:59 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 12:38:14 UTC, wessie wrote:
>
>> I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few others, I
>> proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected as Librarian so
>> I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered them accordingly. I then
>> got to take the whole lot home in the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90
>> tapes.
>
>So it was you that was killing music.

Never succeded though. TBF there's been a lot of music since those
days that deserved death, but it seems to have survived home taping,
the rise and fall of CDs and various other significant changes to
listening habits.

I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 14/01/2022 09:48, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:00:27 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I have never thought of Rush as Prog Rock
>
> Me neither; it's a deeply flawed[1] list. American, of course, which
> may account for it to some degree.

Rush have been acknowledged as a prog rock band for as long as I can
remember.

> I'd never actually heard of the first three on the list

You've not heard of Dream Theater, Mars Volta, or Tool? Next you'll be
saying you've never heard of Marillion, or that Fish is their vocalist.

, and the rest
> simply shows a lack of understanding on the part of the polled RS
> readership of what prog rock is, or isn't.

"They're all out of step except our Jimmy".

http://www.progarchives.com/

> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
> in it, for a start.

Tricky fitting BJH into every prog rock top ten, when there's bands more
deserving such as Focus or Deep Purple not included. A2RK
http://www.arkcreativity.com/ aren't in the list either.

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
news:31t2ugl7h5lu4mhp8cfj29o0lg17claudk@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:39:59 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 12:38:14 UTC, wessie wrote:
>>
>>> I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few
>>> others, I proposed the idea of a school record library. I was
>>> elected as Librarian so I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and
>>> filtered them accordingly. I then got to take the whole lot home in
>>> the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90 tapes.
>>
>>So it was you that was killing music.
>
> Never succeded though. TBF there's been a lot of music since those
> days that deserved death, but it seems to have survived home taping,
> the rise and fall of CDs and various other significant changes to
> listening habits.
>
> I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
> come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
> to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
> otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.
>
>

and remember to lock the door before you knocked one out to the elaborate
Rick Wakeman solo

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:28:19 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>news:31t2ugl7h5lu4mhp8cfj29o0lg17claudk@4ax.com:

>> I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
>> come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
>> to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
>> otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.
>>
>>
>
>and remember to lock the door before you knocked one out to the elaborate
>Rick Wakeman solo

You're weird.

I know you know that, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 13:04:50 UTC, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:39:59 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 12:38:14 UTC, wessie wrote:
> >
> >> I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few others, I
> >> proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected as Librarian so
> >> I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered them accordingly. I then
> >> got to take the whole lot home in the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90
> >> tapes.
> >
> >So it was you that was killing music.

> Never succeded though. TBF there's been a lot of music since those
> days that deserved death, but it seems to have survived home taping,
> the rise and fall of CDs and various other significant changes to
> listening habits.

It has and it hasn't survived. I mean, it doesn't affect me but the digitisation
of music through first of all simple theft/sharing through Napster etc then moving
to the streaming services has massively changed the industry and (as you point
out) the listening experience.

I think to get paid by Spotify/whoever that you've got to hold the listener's attention
for something like 20s so the 'hook' has to be in the first 20s of any song that's
released which has massively changed the structure and length of songs (I've read).

Additionally it's changed the industry so the album promotes the tour rather than the
other way around. Years ago tours were a loss-leader with the big money being made
when the albums were sold. Now it's tours that make the money since hardly anyone
buys music anymore and the streaming companies pay very little. The result is the
price of tickets has gone up massively and tours is where money is made.

So maybe home taping didn't kill music but the digitisation of music distribution
has certainly impacted things.
> I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
> come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
> to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
> otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.

Hear hear. And also... I think the fact that an LP would only play sequentially
rather than skipping between tracks like a CD made a difference to the experience
as did having a large bit of 'real estate' to study whilst enjoying whatever story
of dragons and wizards or spaceships was coming out the speakers. Plus...
who ever managed to roll a joint on a CD case or worse still USB key?

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:08:24 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
>> come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
>> to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
>> otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.
>
>Hear hear. And also... I think the fact that an LP would only play sequentially
>rather than skipping between tracks like a CD made a difference to the experience

Quite so. And of course the same was true for the taped versions. I
still have a ton (or two) of my old cassettes dating back to the
1980s, and quite enjoyed listening to them in the correct fashion in
my Landrover, which although from 2002 was equipped with an old-school
radio/cassette when I bought it. Since upgraded to a proper modern
Android head unit, so the old tapes are now redundant again.

>as did having a large bit of 'real estate' to study whilst enjoying whatever story
>of dragons and wizards or spaceships was coming out the speakers. Plus...
>who ever managed to roll a joint on a CD case or worse still USB key?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 1/14/2022 2:46 AM, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 13/01/2022 16:42, Turby wrote:
>> On 1/13/2022 2:53 AM, crn@nospam.com wrote:
>>>
>>> If you can remember the sixties you were not part of it.
>>>
>> I first dropped LSD on March 17, 1967 in Monterey, California. Three
>> months later I went to the Monterey Pop Festival and watched Jimi
>> Hendrix masturbate his guitar, then set it on fire in his first
>> concert in the US. He was followed by the Who, who trashed their
>> instruments, too. Good memories.
>>
> Wow, excellent!
> I remember seeing the concert on tv.  My overriding memory though is of
> the Animals (NOT the R Stones) version of 'Paint it Black' - which
> nobody else seems to have noticed let alone remembered - apart from the
> nice person who stuck it on youtube somewhere I have forgotten.
> A perspex violin - amazing!
>

The Animals - That same weekend they did a free gig at a nearby college
football field. They set up on a flatbed truck. Just them, nobody else.
It was good.

The movie was good, but it left out a lot of great acts.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 14/01/2022 12:19, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 07:40:45 UTC, Pete Fisher wrote:
>> I never went there when it was a Little Chef or was it a 'Grim Consumer'
>> (Happy Eater).
>
> I thought the 'Happy Eater' sign was in fact someone putting their fingers
> down their throat.

+1

C
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 1/14/2022 12:52 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 13/01/2022 13:53, wessie wrote:
>>
>>
>> my first musical memory is playing Paperback Writer but I think I would
> Obladee obladah [sp?]

Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da

(You're welcome.)

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 1/14/2022 3:13 AM, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:59:05 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 14/01/2022 09:48, Ace wrote:
>
>>> [1] No prog rock list could be complete without Barclay James Harvest
>>> in it, for a start.
>>>
>> And no Led Zep?
>
> Not in my book, no.
>
> Of course that's the trouble with trying to define music genres,
> especially 40+ years after the event, but I think that one of the
> defining factors of prog was its use of 'new' instruments and styles,
> and much as I love Led Zep, their classic bass/guitar/drum lineup was
> very much at the heart of the non-prog rock sound.
>
I'll never forget sitting in the 2nd row at that Led Zep concert in
Berlin (tripping on acid, btw,) and watching Jimmy Page walk over to
that box on a stand with an antenna sticking out of it. He waved his arm
at it and it made these weird, spacey sounds. Sounded great, of course.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:38:12 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>I think I bought Octoberon with other people's money. With a few others, I
>proposed the idea of a school record library. I was elected as Librarian so
>I ran it at lunchtimes, took requests and filtered them accordingly. I then
>got to take the whole lot home in the summer holidays. I used a lot of C90
>tapes.

LOL! That is fantastic.

Mind you, it's the sort of thing you read in the profile of some
multi-millionairre captain of industry. Where did you go wrong?

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:04:49 +0100, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>I do miss The Album, though. The very essence of progrockness, now I
>come to think about it. You had to start at the beginning and listen
>to the whole album through, preferably on your own in a darkened room,
>otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on it.

I agree, although not sure that the room needs to be darkened

Danny Baker did a great TV programme on the album a few years ago, but
I've searched and can't find a reference to it.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 08:30:55 -0800, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>>> And no Led Zep?
>> Not in my book, no.
>> Of course that's the trouble with trying to define music genres,
>> especially 40+ years after the event, but I think that one of the
>> defining factors of prog was its use of 'new' instruments and styles,
>> and much as I love Led Zep, their classic bass/guitar/drum lineup was
>> very much at the heart of the non-prog rock sound.
>I'll never forget sitting in the 2nd row at that Led Zep concert in
>Berlin (tripping on acid, btw,) and watching Jimmy Page walk over to
>that box on a stand with an antenna sticking out of it. He waved his arm
>at it and it made these weird, spacey sounds. Sounded great, of course.

It's called a theremin

Great for making sci-fi noises.

You can build one from a kit for about $30
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old