On 2/1/2022 1:04 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 1:54 PM, Your Name wrote:
>
>> It's simple: Americans are stereotypically stubborn, stupid,
>> selfish, and egotistical. Just look at how many of them refuse to
>> wear seatbelts in their car, insist on letting every idiot have a
>> gun, believe in fantasies and conspiracy theories (UFOs, angles,
>> religions), use their own spellings and definitions for "English"
>> words, sue anyone (if not shoot them) for "breathing wrong", continue
>> to use miles, gallons, and inches, elect braindead morons to be
>> President (Trump, Bush), stick their noses and military into other
>> country's personal business, etc., etc., etc.
>
> And yet my part of the country (USA) is overrun with illegals wanting to
> live here. Strange, huh...

What's especially interesting is that so many workers, that are in the
U.S. illegally, have been deemed "essential workers" during the
pandemic. "73% of total U.S. farmworkers are foreign-born and 48% are
unauthorized immigrants."

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 15:46:59 -0500, nospam wrote:

> how about books about swift & kotlin and ios & android development?

I'll take anything you've got.
Put your iOS device next to the books when you post the screenshot.
So we'll know if you're just bullshitting us, nospam. Again.

To Steve's ignorant point that the CDC changed their recommendations, I
found one the _classic_ photos which were common in the day but I didn't
find the images yet of the people playing cards and coughing on each other.

<https://i.postimg.cc/C5mRvN4H/books09.jpg> Old school vector transmission

The old school has changed (with new data) but Steve is hell bent on
demonizing the scientists simply because they changed their recommendations
based on new science.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:45:46 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> It's staggering that you can't see how this anecdote is symptomatic of the
> reality.
> https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/waiting-times-non-urgent-treatment

Chris,

The reality is in the 0.2% fatality rate.

Assuming the USA has 350M people, then 0.2% of that is 700K anecdotes.

What's "staggering" is you can't comprehend a simple mathematical reality.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 13:02:04 -0800, sms wrote:

> It's not staggering at all when you understand that facts and logic are
> an anathema to Andy.

Steve,

Are you seriously claiming that the fatality rate in the USA is not 0.2%?

If so, that proves you are an idiot because only an idiot would deny facts.
(that's _why_ you're an idiot, Steve).

And are you seriously claiming that the fatality rate for children isn't two
full orders of magnitude _less_ than that, Steve?
--
If you deny facts simply because you don't like them, you'd be an idiot.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> No you haven't. You've simply couched your words differently at different
> times. Yet you've used "immune" to mean asymptomatic several times. They
> are not the same thing.

Chris,
I know you (and nospam) love to play the "you said this" game, so let's
start fresh with the information you learned when you ran the search.

What did _you_ find out for the percentage of people in the population at
large who, when infected with SARS-CoV2, show absolutely zero symptoms?

> An infection spreads poorly through an immune population yet it does (very
> effectively with COVID) in an asymptomatic population.

Talking to you is like talking to a kindergarten kid sometimes, Chris.

Again I have to ask you what _you_ found out when you looked up the facts?

What did _you_ find the percentage to be of people in the population who are
infected by the SARS-CoV2 virus who don't even _know_ that they're infected?

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 11:49:18 -0800, sms wrote:

> In fact, one of the problems with the vaccine is that many people are
> infected without knowing it because the vaccine has resulted in them
> being asymptomatic.

Idiot.

We're talking about people who haven't gotten the shot, Steve.

Learn to read.

> Those that are infected, but without symptoms, can
> unknowingly spread the virus because they are not self-quarantining.

Duh.

What's interesting is that people like Steve (who is like most people), who
have _zero_ training in this stuff, feel qualified (somehow?) to _force_
others to do what they do (out of their own fears and ignorance).

> In
> some cases they become aware that they are infected when they are tested
> in preparation for some kind of surgery, either out-patient or
> in-patient, or when they are tested prior to traveling.

Duh.

This is why I posit that _testing_ is the most important focus for the
government Steve.

Not taking away people's rights to "my body my choice".

> The extent to which anti-vaxers will go to delude themselves is incredible.

The figures are from the CDC, Steve.

Why must Steve demonize the entire CDC just so he can "feel" like his
fear-based thought process stands a chance of making sense to him?

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 07:02:17 +1100, 5tft wrote:

> I dont find it incredible, but it is certainly interesting how many
> are so stupid. And surprising that it is far more than who refuse
> to let their kids be vaccinated. Wonder why. Presumably because
> it is such a political shit fight in the US.

What percentage of kids died of Covid in the USA from October 2020 to
October 2021?

Do you even know?
No?

I didn't think so.
Idiot.

HINT: The chance of a kid NOT dying from Covid in the USA (aged 5-11) in
that year was 99.998% based pm the CDC's own publications in October 2021.

How can you force parents to have their kids vaccinated against something
that has a lower chance of happening than them dying from zillions of other
things that you're not bothering to force parents to vaccinate against?

What logic do you use for such preposterous ignorant math?

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 14:59:55 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Interestingly, it's how I handle Apple facts that I hate.
>
> ftfy

Notice you have no _adult_ response to the facts, which remain facts.

Fatalities:
a. The fatality rate for adults in the USA is 0.2% overall.
b. The fatality rate for kids in the USA is two orders of magnitude lower.

Disease:
A. Most people who get Covid don't even realize they are infected.
B. All of them (essentially) can pass the disease on to others.

The fact you have to resort to kindergarten "ftfy" responses is indicative
that you have no _adult_ response to those facts which you happen to hate.
--
You do the same thing with facts about Apple products, nospam.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 22:14:14 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> a. The fatality rate for adults in the USA is 0.2% overall.

Ooops. Typo. The fatality rate for _everyone_ in the USA is 0.2% overall.

(Each age group has a _different_ tranched fatality rate.)

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
> Your Name wrote

>> It's simple: Americans are stereotypically stubborn, stupid,
>> selfish, and egotistical. Just look at how many of them refuse to
>> wear seatbelts in their car, insist on letting every idiot have a
>> gun, believe in fantasies and conspiracy theories (UFOs, angles,
>> religions), use their own spellings and definitions for "English"
>> words, sue anyone (if not shoot them) for "breathing wrong", continue
>> to use miles, gallons, and inches, elect braindead morons to be
>> President (Trump, Bush), stick their noses and military into other
>> country's personal business, etc., etc., etc.

> And yet my part of the country (USA) is overrun with illegals wanting to
> live here. Strange, huh...

No, it's even worse where they are coming from.

On 2/1/2022 3:04 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> I'm a scientist. And an engineer. I know statistics.
>
> The fatality rate is 0.2% overall whether you like that fact or not.

Yet, currently 0.27% of the US population has died from Covid-19. This
would imply your 0.2% is wrong or cherry picked.

How do you explain this contradiction?

On 2/1/2022 4:18 PM, joe wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 3:04 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>   I'm a scientist. And an engineer. I know statistics.
>>
>> The fatality rate is 0.2% overall whether you like that fact or not.
>
> Yet, currently 0.27% of the US population has died from Covid-19.  This
> would imply your 0.2% is wrong or cherry picked.
>
> How do you explain this contradiction?

Correct. To be more precise 0.2695% of the U.S. population has
officially died from Covid (888,000/329,500,000).

However 888,000 is almost certainly an undercount. There have been about
950,000 excess deaths in the U.S. since the pandemic began and there is
no explanation, other than Covid, for the difference between 888,000 and
950,000, so the actual percentage should be around 0.288%.

As to where he got 0.2%, where do you think? He made it up. He's not a
big fan of factual data!

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 17:06:21 -0800, sms wrote:

> As to where he got 0.2%, where do you think? He made it up. He's not a
> big fan of factual data!

Steve, you are an idiot.

You run an ad-hoc calculation based on what you estimate is the number of
reported deaths today and based on what you estimated the population is
today, and that comes out (predictably so) extremely close to the CDC
figures, and then you claim your own calculation is made-up bullshit?

WTF?

You have no _adult_ response to the fact the CDC figures are accurate.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 18:18:35 -0600, joe wrote:

>> The fatality rate is 0.2% overall whether you like that fact or not.
>
> Yet, currently 0.27% of the US population has died from Covid-19. This
> would imply your 0.2% is wrong or cherry picked.

Idiots.
You're _agreeing_ with me, and you don't even realize it.

That minor difference from the average changes the chance of not dying from
99.8% to 99.7%, which is the risk to any one person of dying from Covid.

Big fucking deal.

Do you idiots get the point that the chance of not dying is >99%?
Who cares if it's 99.8% or if it's 99.7% for God's sake (except you idiots).

For children, aged 5-11, between October & October 2020 & 2021 it's two
orders of magnitude _lower_ at a 99.998% chance of _not_ dying from Covid.
<https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/03-Covid-Jefferson-508.pdf>

If new numbers come in next month and that figure from the CDC moves from
0.002% to 0.0027% are you going to claim that that's a _big_ difference too?

The risk of not dying would go from 99.998% to 99.997% for heavens sake.

> How do you explain this contradiction?

You're _agreeing_ with the figures I've been giving (which came from the
CDC), and you don't even realize you agree with me, you're _that_ stupid?

Is this Alan Baker posing as "joe" because that's a stupid question that
someone with an IQ around 40 with a first grade reading level would ask.

Every paper will give a slightly different value even when they look at the
same figures for a crude mortality rate (which is what we're talking about).
*Choosing the right COVID-19 indicator*: crude mortality, case fatality,
and infection fatality rates influence policy preferences, behaviour,
and understanding
<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-01032-0>

Are you seriously claiming a risk of 99.8% versus 99.7% is significant when
any one person is weighing what the risk of dying from Covid is to them?

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 02:38:42 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> You're _agreeing_ with me, and you don't even realize it.
>
> That minor difference from the average changes the chance of not dying from
> 99.8% to 99.7%, which is the risk to any one person of dying from Covid.

Ooops. _not_ dying.
That minor difference from the average changes the chance of not dying from
99.8% to 99.7% which is the risk to any one person of _not_ dying from Covid.

What's shocking is you idiots are _agreeing_ with the figures (by two
different methods where Steve ran the numbers himself) and you don't even
realize it.

You're _looking_ for holes and yet you are _agreeing_ with the numbers.

Idiots.

On 2022-02-01 12:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 12:53:51 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> That explains a lot. Come back when you have a degree in something
>> biological.
>
> Idiot.
>
> I have _multiple_ higher degrees, Chris.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/jjkVvNTQ/books01.jpg> Genetics, Medical Instrumentation
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Dzzkq69w/books02.jpg> Starting with vacuum tubes
> <https://i.postimg.cc/cJD2dPnY/books03.jpg> Immunology, Biochem, Microbio
> <https://i.postimg.cc/CKKrrJQK/books04.jpg> Simulation Analog & Digital
> <https://i.postimg.cc/RVQPMjrF/books05.jpg> Custom and digital design
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tRFk5L45/books06.jpg> Layout, testing, SOC modeling
> <https://i.postimg.cc/s2SGzC8H/books07.jpg> Biomedical instrument design
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SN3cbGv0/books08.jpg> Micro, parasitology, immuno
>
> What higher degrees do _you_ have, Chris?

Prove you have any degree.

>
>> Much of biology, especially molecular biology, is probabilistic. Not
>> deterministic like engineering.
>
> Idiot.
>
> I _know_ more about microbiology, virology, genetics, biochemistry,
> parasitology, mycology, etc. than you'll ever know, you idiot.
>
>> You cannot deal in absolutes in biology which is what makes it hard
>> explaining to people when the strongest words you can use are likely or
>> very likely. Or reduce significantly.
>
> I have my name on published peer-reviewed biological papers, Chris.
> (I wasn't the principle author though.)

Cite, please!

>
>> We cannot say with certainty what will or won't happen. It's all
>> likelihoods based on multimodal variables.
>
> The one thing I can do, Chris, that you can't do, is I can comprehend facts.
>
>> Also biological systems have emergent behaviours which means they respond -
>> sometimes unpredictably - to interventions. This is not simple Newtonian
>> reactions. For example we know that COVID *will* mutate, but we don't know
>> when or exactly how nor the impact.
>
> On that topic of mutation, most people are ignorant like you are Chris, in
> that they don't realize RNA viruses mutate. That's what they do.
>
> For reason probably unknown to you, DNA mutations are less frequent than RNA
> and this is an RNA virus (although the adenovirus used in the shots isn't).
>
> I've read a few papers on the mutations, where my assessment is twofold:
> a. The mutations that _matter_ are actually rather rare for SARC-CoV2
> b. However the RNA ball is fantastically huge so mutations _will_ happen
>
>> Physics can exquisitely calculate how an object will react to some imparted
>> force. Only Biology can explain why, when that object is a tiger, it rips
>> your arm off.
>
> Do you want to see my Physics, Calculus, Trig & Stats books too?
> (they're the underlying stuff).

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 17:06:21 -0800, sms wrote:

> On 2/1/2022 4:18 PM, joe wrote:
>> On 2/1/2022 3:04 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> � I'm a scientist. And an engineer. I know statistics.
>>>
>>> The fatality rate is 0.2% overall whether you like that fact or not.
>>
>> Yet, currently 0.27% of the US population has died from Covid-19.� This
>> would imply your 0.2% is wrong or cherry picked.
>>
>> How do you explain this contradiction?
>
> Correct. To be more precise 0.2695% of the U.S. population has
> officially died from Covid (888,000/329,500,000).
>
> However 888,000 is almost certainly an undercount. There have been about
> 950,000 excess deaths in the U.S. since the pandemic began and there is
> no explanation, other than Covid, for the difference between 888,000 and
> 950,000, so the actual percentage should be around 0.288%.
>
> As to where he got 0.2%, where do you think? He made it up. He's not a
> big fan of factual data!

What I find revealing is that Steve _agrees_ with the figures I quoted, and
yet, Steve is _desperate_ to find some hidden unseen hole because he hates
what the facts revealed to him when he, himself, ran the math.

Realistically, while Steve doesn't even realize he's agreeing with the
figures, any given set of numbers will differ in multiple ways, but if
they're quoting similar figures, they won't differ significantly if they're
accurately compiled.

For example, this is dated January 26, 2022 and the number is "close" to
Steve's number of the total deaths in the USA due to Covid.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/>
"Between the beginning of January 2020 and January 26, 2022
864,261 deaths were caused by COVID-19 in the United States."

Certainly I wouldn't claim what both Steve and the moron "joe" claimed given
the difference between Steve's 888,000 & that 864,261 is in the noise level.

Likewise with Steve's estimate of the US population at 329,500,000, where
this US Census government clock shows 332,473,380 as of this very moment.
<https://www.census.gov/popclock/>

Using _those_ numbers, we get 0.26%, which simply means that the chance of
_not_ dying from Covid for any one person in the USA is over 99%.

For those who believe in false significant figures, that's 99.74%
(versus the 99.8% that I previously quoted, the difference being nothing).

For children, aged 5-11, between October & October 2020 & 2021 it's two
orders of magnitude _lower_ at a 99.998% chance of _not_ dying from Covid.

<https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/03-Covid-Jefferson-508.pdf>

If new numbers come in next month and that figure from the CDC moves from
0.002% to 0.0027% are you going to claim that that's a _big_ difference too?

The risk of not dying would go from 99.998% to 99.997% for heavens sake.
--
It's revealing that they're so desperate to disagree with the facts that
their own calculations reveal to them that the facts are correct, and yet,
they're so stupid they don't even realize it - even when it happens right in
front of them.

On 2022-02-01 12:58 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:36:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Also amazing that a country which I admired for its science and
>> engineering achievements can even debate whether to use masks or not,
>> whether to vaccinate or not.
>
> It's because we have basic human rights.
>
> One of those basic human rights can be summarized as:
> My body, My choice
>
> Do you know that most people are innately immune to Covid?

No. Because that isn't actually a fact.

> Do you know the fatality rate is 0.2% overall?

There are about 8 BILLION people on the planet, so that's 160 MILLION
deaths...

....IF everyone gets the care that the US can give.

> For kids, it's 0.002% overall.
>
> No?
> I didn't think so.
>
> All of you are making all your decisions based on fear.
> And that's OK.
>
> Just keep away from taking away our basic human rights.

On 2022-02-01 1:04 p.m., AJL wrote:
> On 2/1/2022 1:54 PM, Your Name wrote:
>
>> It's simple: Americans are stereotypically stubborn, stupid,
>> selfish, and egotistical. Just look at how many of them refuse to
>> wear seatbelts in their car, insist on letting every idiot have a
>> gun, believe in fantasies and conspiracy theories (UFOs, angles,
>> religions), use their own spellings and definitions for "English"
>> words, sue anyone (if not shoot them) for "breathing wrong", continue
>> to use miles, gallons, and inches, elect braindead morons to be
>> President (Trump, Bush), stick their noses and military into other
>> country's personal business, etc., etc., etc.
>
> And yet my part of the country (USA) is overrun with illegals wanting to
> live here. Strange, huh...
>

People living in abject poverty.

How many Canadians do you think try to illegally emigrate to the US each
year, huh?

On 2022-02-01 21:04:45 +0000, AJL said:
> On 2/1/2022 1:54 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> It's simple: Americans are stereotypically stubborn, stupid,
>> selfish, and egotistical. Just look at how many of them refuse to
>> wear seatbelts in their car, insist on letting every idiot have a
>> gun, believe in fantasies and conspiracy theories (UFOs, angles,
>> religions), use their own spellings and definitions for "English"
>> words, sue anyone (if not shoot them) for "breathing wrong", continue
>> to use miles, gallons, and inches, elect braindead morons to be
>> President (Trump, Bush), stick their noses and military into other
>> country's personal business, etc., etc., etc.
>
> And yet my part of the country (USA) is overrun with illegals wanting to
> live here. Strange, huh...

So now you can imagine how bad their normal daily life must be where
they come from that they'd prefer to move to a country full of idiots
and loonies. :-p

In article <stctc4$13cb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2022-02-01 12:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> > What higher degrees do _you_ have, Chris?
>
> Prove you have any degree.

he has photos of books. really old books. none of this new-age shit.
isn't that sufficient? :)

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 23:30:42 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> On 2022-02-01 12:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> What higher degrees do _you_ have, Chris?
>>
>> Prove you have any degree.
>
> he has photos of books. really old books. none of this new-age shit.
> isn't that sufficient? :)

*What degrees do YOU have, nospam and Chris?*

I asked before, and I'll ask again the salient question:
1. nospam - Do you even _have_ a college degree and in what?
2. Chris - Do you even have a college degree, and in what?
3. Alan Baker - Do you even have a high school GED?

The fact that Steve and I let you know what degrees we have, and yet, you
three probably barely have a high school diploma is obvious from your lack
of response.

What degrees do YOU have, nospam and Chris?
And in what?
--
Forget Alan Baker as it's clear he likely never graduated high school.

On 2022-02-01 8:37 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 23:30:42 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> On 2022-02-01 12:42 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>> What higher degrees do _you_ have, Chris?
>>>
>>> Prove you have any degree.
>>
>> he has photos of books. really old books. none of this new-age shit.
>> isn't that sufficient? :)
>
> *What degrees do YOU have, nospam and Chris?*

What degrees do YOU have first, Arlen?

>
> I asked before, and I'll ask again the salient question:
> 1. nospam - Do you even _have_ a college degree and in what?
> 2. Chris - Do you even have a college degree, and in what?
> 3. Alan Baker - Do you even have a high school GED?
>
> The fact that Steve and I let you know what degrees we have, and yet, you

You let us see a claim...

> three probably barely have a high school diploma is obvious from your lack
> of response.
>
> What degrees do YOU have, nospam and Chris?
> And in what?

Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote
> AJL wrote
>> Your Name wrote

>>> It's simple: Americans are stereotypically stubborn, stupid,
>>> selfish, and egotistical. Just look at how many of them refuse to
>>> wear seatbelts in their car, insist on letting every idiot have a
>>> gun, believe in fantasies and conspiracy theories (UFOs, angles,
>>> religions), use their own spellings and definitions for "English"
>>> words, sue anyone (if not shoot them) for "breathing wrong", continue
>>> to use miles, gallons, and inches, elect braindead morons to be
>>> President (Trump, Bush), stick their noses and military into other
>>> country's personal business, etc., etc., etc.
>> And yet my part of the country (USA) is overrun with illegals wanting
>> to
>> live here. Strange, huh...

> People living in abject poverty.

Plenty of them dont live in abject poverty and fly in to the USA