On 2/15/2022 11:47 AM, David Higton wrote:

<snip>

> It's interesting that Novak Djokovic has just given an interview on
> the BBC, in which he states he doesn't want to be vaccinated, and
> that he accepts the consequences.

That is a reasonable response, as long as he also agrees to isolate
until the pandemic is over.

No one cares if someone refuses to be vaccinated, as long as they don't
spread the disease to the general population. As we've seen, Covid
vaccinations reduce the severity of the disease, and they reduce
morbidity, but they are not 100% effective at preventing the disease.

Same with masks. No need to wear a mask when you're by yourself, just
don't go maskless into the general population.

You have the freedom to make bad choices as long as you're willing to
accept the consequences.

On 2/15/2022 11:48 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 10:55:19 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/15/2022 8:17 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Trolls are always wrong. But they will continue to post their nonsense
>>> if you keep replying to them. Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile
>>> them. If nobody replies, they'll eventually get bored and go away.
>>
>> 10: Post incorrect information about everything to gain attention
>> 20: Everyone filters you out and pays no attention to you
>> 30: Create fake names to get around everyone's filters
>> 40: GoTo 10
>> 50: End
>
>
> 35. Everyone recognizes that the new fake name is just a nymshift and
> killfiles that name too.

True. But what I've observed is that just after he does a nymshift he
tries to post stuff that is not so obviously untrue so it can take a few
days before everyone realizes that a new poster is him with a nymshift.

In article <suh3f7$ceq$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > 35. Everyone recognizes that the new fake name is just a nymshift and
> > killfiles that name too.
>
> True. But what I've observed is that just after he does a nymshift he
> tries to post stuff that is not so obviously untrue so it can take a few
> days before everyone realizes that a new poster is him with a nymshift.

his style is unmistakable and is usually obvious in the first post or
two.

On 2/14/2022 2:47 PM, David Higton wrote:

<snip>

> You just keep spouting things like "Fear" and "Taking away their rights",
> as if they're slogans that must be mindlessly repeated.

If you watched coverage of what transpired in Canada last week, you'd
understand that in fact it _is_ required that those slogans be
mindlessly (and endlessly) repeated. Get a big flag, make a sign that
says "Freedom" and drive around (or park) honking your horn like a moron.

The counter-protester's signs were much more clever:
"HONK IF YOU FAILED SCIENCE...AND SOCIAL STUDIES...AND MATH..."
"FREE DUMB CONVOY"
"MAKE OTTAWA BORING AGAIN"
"MANDATE CRITICAL THINKING"

It's estimated that the protesting truckers cost the economy $1 billion
(combined between the U.S. and Canada), causing thousands of workers to
lose pay as factories shut down due to supply chain disruptions.

The whole alt-right movement is based on mindlessly and endlessly
chanting slogans and spreading fake information. Thankfully, even though
they make a lot of noise, they still represent a very tiny percentage of
U.S. (and Canadian) residents.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:44:53 -0800, sms wrote:

> You have the freedom to make bad choices as long as you're willing to
> accept the consequences.

Adult question...

Why is the choice that Steve makes (out of ignorance) the "good" choice.
And yet, _everyone_ else (out of knowledge, perhaps?) makes a "bad" choice?

Given Steve is completely ignorant of Covid, what gives him the right to
claim that the only good choice is the choice _he_ made?

(out of ignorance & fear alone)

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:46:32 -0800, sms wrote:

> True. But what I've observed is that just after he does a nymshift he
> tries to post stuff that is not so obviously untrue so it can take a few
> days before everyone realizes that a new poster is him with a nymshift.

How dumb do you have to be, Steve, to _not_ recognize these screenshots?
<https://i.postimg.cc/MT0CxMbZ/ipod007.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/rsj2G0KZ/ipod006.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/7hwyTMYT/ipod005.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25LmpSK3/ipod004.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/RZF4RR17/ipod003.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPMKTwm4/ipod002.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/jdRsWKLk/ipod001.jpg>

The header is just the meaningless wrapping paper, Steve.
What matters is the value of the gift in the body.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:46:32 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 2/15/2022 11:48 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 10:55:19 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/15/2022 8:17 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Trolls are always wrong. But they will continue to post their nonsense
>>>> if you keep replying to them. Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile
>>>> them. If nobody replies, they'll eventually get bored and go away.
>>>
>>> 10: Post incorrect information about everything to gain attention
>>> 20: Everyone filters you out and pays no attention to you
>>> 30: Create fake names to get around everyone's filters
>>> 40: GoTo 10
>>> 50: End
>>
>>
>> 35. Everyone recognizes that the new fake name is just a nymshift and
>> killfiles that name too.
>
>True. But what I've observed is that just after he does a nymshift he
>tries to post stuff that is not so obviously untrue so it can take a few
>days before everyone realizes that a new poster is him with a nymshift.

As far as I'm concerned, a few days is no big deal, especially if he's
not posting his usual crap on those days.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:47:37 GMT, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
wrote:

>In message <sufhmk$1cvt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 22:47:55 GMT, David Higton wrote:
>>
>> > Nor do I see much evidence that you think logically.
>>
>> And yet it's _you_ who hasn't provided even a _single_ cite for your
>> claims. Not me. You.
>>
>> BTW, I get it that you're likely just "Steve" pretending to be David
>> Higton. (Same as "joe" which allows Steve to then _respond_ to his own
>> posts.)
>>
>> But it doesn't matter since the fact remains as I have stated it logically:
>> *Not once in this thread have you (aka David Higton) provided a cite*
>>
>> Not even once. Everything you've claimed, so far, is pure bullshit.
>>
>> And that is proven by the fact I asked you for cites, & you never gave any.
>> Because it's _you_ who can't back up your outlandish claims.
>>
>> You demonize anyone who disagrees with your purely imaginary belief
>> systems. You _hate_ me because you have no adult response to the facts I
>> provided.
>>
>> In fact, you _hate_ me because I _do_ think logically. You base your entire
>> belief system on fear and fear alone.
>>
>> And you _hate_ that you can't _control_ people like me, Steve, on pure
>> fear.
>
>My "belief system" is called Science.
>
>I utterly fail to understand why you say "You base your entire belief
>system on fear and fear alone." There is no truth in what you say, of
>course.

Because he's a troll. Please don't reply to trolls. Killfile them.

In message <suh3c6$ceq$1@dont-email.me>
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> On 2/15/2022 11:47 AM, David Higton wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's interesting that Novak Djokovic has just given an interview on the
> > BBC, in which he states he doesn't want to be vaccinated, and that he
> > accepts the consequences.
>
> That is a reasonable response, as long as he also agrees to isolate until
> the pandemic is over.
>
> No one cares if someone refuses to be vaccinated, as long as they don't
> spread the disease to the general population. As we've seen, Covid
> vaccinations reduce the severity of the disease, and they reduce
> morbidity, but they are not 100% effective at preventing the disease.
>
> Same with masks. No need to wear a mask when you're by yourself, just
> don't go maskless into the general population.
>
> You have the freedom to make bad choices as long as you're willing to
> accept the consequences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60391876

David

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:47:37 GMT, David Higton wrote:
>
>> It's interesting that Novak Djokovic has just given an interview on
>> the BBC, in which he states he doesn't want to be vaccinated, and
>> that he accepts the consequences.
>
> A single bit of off-the-wall anecdotal evidence is not science.

It demonstrates that no-one is being forced. Everyone has a choice. The
reasonable reaction to not getting vaccinated is to accept the
consequences.

On 15/02/2022 22:08, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 12:44:53 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> You have the freedom to make bad choices as long as you're willing to
>> accept the consequences.
>
> Adult question...
>
> Why is the choice that Steve makes (out of ignorance) the "good" choice.
> And yet, _everyone_ else (out of knowledge, perhaps?) makes a "bad" choice?

Avoiding the vaccine is not the evidence-based choice. People who do
"their own research" are simply trying to confirm their own bias by
finding the most niche or tiny study which, at best, happens to have
been published. More typically it's simply "information" shared by
crackpot websites or "influencers" who are generating clickbait for
their own gain.

The only exceptions are if people have a genuine medical exemption. Not
a medical exemption that they bought off the internet.

Novak's case is a clear example of not a genuine medical exemption.

> Given Steve is completely ignorant of Covid, what gives him the right to
> claim that the only good choice is the choice _he_ made?

What gives people the right to claim "my body, my choice"?

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> It demonstrates that no-one is being forced. Everyone has a choice. The
> reasonable reaction to not getting vaccinated is to accept the
> consequences.

Chris,

If I have to teach you that anecdotes aren't science, then you're long lost.
I had been hoping that there was at least one intelligent person on this ng.

You already showed promise, Chris, in that you did two very adult things:
1. You _read_ the cites! (almost nobody on this newsgroup does that Chris)
2. You added value! (almost nobody on this newsgroup added cites either!)

Given there is hope for you yet...

Let's move on to the _more important_ adult concepts, instead, shall we.
The most ignorant people are the ones _forcing_ others to be like they are.

Let's be honest with each other as this is a very adult concept below:
a. *Some people are _scared shitless_ of covid*
b. *Some are not*

That's huge if you can comprehend that, but what's even huger is:
a. Those who are scared shitless, are almost completely ignorant
b. So are most of those who are not

Now, let's make that far worse with this observation, shall we:
a. Those who are scared, for some reason, tend to be wacko Democrats
b. Those who are not, for whatever reason, tend to be wacko Republicans

Bear in mind I'm an enlightened educated liberal, in that I believe everyone
should be free to make their own voluntary medical choices.

The "educated" part is that anyone who tells me that being forced to endure
a medical injection at the risk of losing your job is _not_ voluntary.

People like Steve will lie to claim that it is, but that just proves the
next point (which is the reason for the SUBJECT of this thread isn't it).

a. The Democrats will {lie,cheat,steal,etc} to _force_ you to get shot up
b. The Republicans will {lie,cheat,steal,etc} to be allowed _not_ to be shot

How in the world did a rather simple voluntary medical decision turn into a
hugely politicized destruction of the rights and freedoms Americans had?

I know why.
Do you?

HINT: (go back to the very first a/b that I listed in this post).
--
The most ignorant people are the ones _forcing_ others to be like they are.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:18:08 +0000, Chris wrote:

> Avoiding the vaccine is not the evidence-based choice.

Chris,

Below are very adult concepts I'm providing to you, free of charge. :)

Those most ignorant, tend to be the wacko Democrats, and hence they're also
the most scared, and, hence the most likely to use scare tactics, and hence
the most likely to use force instead of logic, science, sense, and reason.

Let's be honest with each other please. I accept the facts below. Do you?
a. *Some people are _scared shitless_ of covid*
b. *Some are not*

For example, I'm not in the least "afraid" of covid, and more to the point,
I'm not afraid of other people (which is the _most important_ concept!).

And yet, I made my own decision (based on facts!) whether or not to be shot.
My Body. My Choice.

> People who do
> "their own research" are simply trying to confirm their own bias by
> finding the most niche or tiny study which, at best, happens to have
> been published.

What percentage of people have {virology,genetics,immunology} degrees Chris?
What percentage of people have a license to practice medicine, Chris?

Let's be honest about what you just said Chris, which is a key point in that
the percentage of people who can do "their own research" is, IMHO, very low.
a. Those who are scared shitless, are almost completely ignorant
b. So are most of those who are not

> More typically it's simply "information" shared by
> crackpot websites or "influencers" who are generating clickbait for
> their own gain.

On that topic of "information sharing", I don't know if you've noticed, but
_every_ post from Steve was scare mongering, because of this set of facts.
a. Those who are scared, for some reason, tend to be wacko Democrats
b. Those who are not, for whatever reason, tend _not_ to be wacko Democrats

Notice what I'm claiming, which is that the "problem" is only that the wacko
Democrats can't _control_ everyone else. That, you see, is the problem.

And that is exactly _why_ Steve _loved_ that making people lose their jobs
is what makes Steve happy: Which is why he posted this thread in such glee!
a. The Democrats will {lie,cheat,steal,etc} to _force_ you to get shot up
b. Everyone else just wants _choice_ to be allowed to decide for themselves

And no, if your job depends on that choice, it's _not_ a choice.
(That sms claims it is just proves my point how evil wackos like Steve are.)
a. Wacko Democrats don't care about anyone - they care only about themselves
b. Everyone else just wants to be left alone to make their own choices

> The only exceptions are if people have a genuine medical exemption. Not
> a medical exemption that they bought off the internet.

The fundamental question is whether or not we have the freedom of choice.
a. The wackos (mostly Democrats) want to take away that freedom of choice
b. Everyone else just wants to be able to choose their medical procedures

> Novak's case is a clear example of not a genuine medical exemption.

I don't know if I mentioned it yet, but anecdotal evidence is not science.
You & I can illustrate anything, even the earth being flat, with anecdotes.

Anecdotes have their place, where, for example, analogies can be anecdotes.
But anecdotes are not science.
*Why subjective anecdotes often trump objective data*
<https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-anecdotal-evidence-can-undermine-scientific-results/>
>> Given Steve is completely ignorant of Covid, what gives him the right to
>> claim that the only good choice is the choice _he_ made?
>
> What gives people the right to claim "my body, my choice"?

In the USA, we lost hundreds of thousands of lives, for our freedom.
The wacko Democrats, like Steve, want to throw all of that blood away.

Besides, you may not know this, but "My Body My Choice" is Steve's slogan.
Not mine.

Were the wacko Democrats merely lying (again) when they claimed that?
a. Yes. They lied. (again)
b. No. They actually _believe_ in what they proclaim is their foundation.
(Pick one)
--
Those most ignorant, tend to be the wacko Democrats, and hence they're also
the most scared, and, hence the most likely to use scare tactics, and hence
the most likely to use force instead of logic, science, sense, and reason.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:33:37 GMT, David Higton wrote:

>> You have the freedom to make bad choices as long as you're willing to
>> accept the consequences.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60391876

*Novak Djokovic is urged by the UK health secretary to reflect on his Covid jab refusal*
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60391876>
"The men's world number one told the BBC he was prepared to miss
top tournaments to defend his freedom of choice."

He's an intelligent man because he _knows_ what this is all about.

It's about freedom.
Freedom of Choice.

*My Body*. *My Choice*.

You have to stop calling it a "bad choice" just because you made that choice
and other people (many of whom are far more knowledgeable than you) didn't.

a. Those who are scared shitless, want to _force_ others to do what they do.
b. Those who are logical, sensible and reasonable allow others their choice.

For obvious reasons, most people are ignorant, but for whatever reason, the
most ignorant appear to be the most wacky of the Democrats, and that's just
an observation that they're the same ones who are most scared of guns, and
most scared of climate change, and most scared of religion, etc.

Steve, for example, is so far wacko off to the left that he probably doesn't
even realize _every_ word out of his mouth is to monger fear and fear alone.

Not logic.
Not science.
Not fact.

But fear.

The _entire_ argument of these wacko Democrats goes something like this:
a. I don't know anything about Covid
b. But it's one of a billion things that can kill you
c. Or, it won't harm you (it doesn't leave a scratch on most people)
d. But I want to make this a political issue nonetheless
e. Even as it's purely a medical decision that is yours alone to make
f. Oh way, that was abortion. Forget what I said.
g. You have no choice now.
h. Because I am scared.
i. I wasn't scared of abortion, so I said it's your body & your choice.
j. But now I'm scared shitless so you lose all your rights instantly.
k. If you don't want to lose your rights, then you'll lose your job.
l. Heh heh... We wacko Democrats are so sleazy. We lied. You lose.
m. We wacko Democrats never give a shit about you anyway.
n. We wackos only care about ourselves and our political party.
o. We blame anyone who is logical on the _other_ political party!
p. Don't even try to speak facts to we wacko Democrats.
q. We don't give a shit about facts.
r. All we care about is fear mongering.
s. The more fear mongering we can do on Climate, the more tax we make.
t. The more fear mongering we can do on guns, the more safe we feel.
u. The more fear mongering we can do on covid, the more safe we feel.
v. If you don't do what I want you to do then I will take away your job.
w. If you aren't driven purely by fear like I am I will ridicule you.
x. I will try to scare you by telling you how horrible it is to die.
y. Even though scare tactics only work in stupid people like other wackos.
z. I feel safe now that I have forced everyone to be stupid like I am.

On 2/16/2022 12:01 AM, Chris wrote:
> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:47:37 GMT, David Higton wrote:
>>
>>> It's interesting that Novak Djokovic has just given an interview on
>>> the BBC, in which he states he doesn't want to be vaccinated, and
>>> that he accepts the consequences.
>>
>> A single bit of off-the-wall anecdotal evidence is not science.
>
> It demonstrates that no-one is being forced. Everyone has a choice. The
> reasonable reaction to not getting vaccinated is to accept the
> consequences.

Exactly, he's not out there driving around (or blocking traffic) with a
Serbian flag in a pickup truck, honking his horn, with a big sign
demanding "Freedom."

On the other hand, he is not making an informed decision, and his
statements on the issue have made it clear that it's not that he doesn't
believe that the vaccine is safe or effective, he just doesn't want
being vaccinated to be a precondition of competing.

In the U.S., there are some people that are refusing to be vaccinated to
"own the libs," even though even Trump has urged people to be
vaccinated. They come up with a bunch of ridiculous excuses, the
stupidest being "I need to do my own research" as if they have the
slightest qualifications to do so. They are not making evidence based
choices and they lack the credentials, scientific knowledge, and logical
thinking skills to understand how Covid-19 spreads and how the spread
can be prevented; some even lie about the death rates! And all this
would be okay, as long as they isolate if they refuse to be vaccinated
and refuse to wear masks, but since that would be admitting that they
are engaging in stupid behavior, they want to be out there mixing with
people that are smart enough to take the pandemic seriously.

There was someone in rec.bicycles.tech (who makes our favorite troll
look like a genius) who stomped out of a bicycle shop, because the shop
insisted that he comply with the county mask mandate in effect. He
posted: "...the 20 year old or younger manager told me if I wouldn't
wear a mask they wouldn't sell me anything. So I came home and ordered
the tires and tubes on-line..." I sent an e-mail to the CEO of the bike
shop chain, thanking him for having his employees enforce the mask
mandate, and got a nice response from him "Thank you. Wow, he really
does sound like a jerk. Thanks for sticking up for us!!" Not only was
the shop manager just complying with the county mandate, other customers
would not want to be in a store with someone not wearing a mask. Losing
one small sale to an online merchant was no big deal.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 07:40:05 -0800, sms wrote:

> In the U.S., there are some people that are refusing to be vaccinated to
> "own the libs," even though even Trump has urged people to be
> vaccinated.

Adults will notice Steve is the one making a medical decision political.
It's the wackos like Steve who are the danger here - taking away our rights.
*My Body* *My Choice*

*Democrat wackos like Steve want to _force_ their choice into your body*

They're politicizing politics for their own purposes, where Steve revels in
_forcing_ people to be injected with substances they don't want in them.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:29:21 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> *Democrat wackos like Steve want to _force_ their choice into your body*
>
> They're politicizing politics for their own purposes, where Steve revels in
> _forcing_ people to be injected with substances they don't want in them.

ooops.

*They're politicizing _medicine_ for their own purposes...*

On 2/16/2022 10:29 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 07:40:05 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> In the U.S., there are some people that are refusing to be vaccinated to
>> "own the libs," even though even Trump has urged people to be
>> vaccinated.
>
> Adults will notice Steve is the one making a medical decision political.
> It's the wackos like Steve who are the danger here - taking away our rights.
> *My Body* *My Choice*
>
> *Democrat wackos like Steve want to _force_ their choice into your body*
>
> They're politicizing politics for their own purposes, where Steve revels in
> _forcing_ people to be injected with substances they don't want in them.

No Steve did not make it political; those wanting to "own the libs" make
it political.

OTOH, here is a reference you wanted to see.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine

On 2/16/2022 9:18 AM, joe wrote:
> On 2/16/2022 10:29 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 07:40:05 -0800, sms wrote:
>>
>>> In the U.S., there are some people that are refusing to be vaccinated to
>>> "own the libs," even though even Trump has urged people to be
>>> vaccinated.
>>
>> Adults will notice Steve is the one making a medical decision political.
>> It's the wackos like Steve who are the danger here - taking away our
>> rights.
>>    *My Body*  *My Choice*
>>
>>   *Democrat wackos like Steve want to _force_ their choice into your
>> body*
>>
>> They're politicizing politics for their own purposes, where Steve
>> revels in
>> _forcing_ people to be injected with substances they don't want in them.
>
> No Steve did not make it political; those wanting to "own the libs" make
> it political.
>
> OTOH, here is a reference you wanted to see.
> https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“If you want to teach fools, I say don't waste your time! If you say I
will learn something from fools then I say you are a fool!” ― Mehmet
Murat ildan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 16/02/2022 12:03, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 08:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> It demonstrates that no-one is being forced. Everyone has a choice. The
>> reasonable reaction to not getting vaccinated is to accept the
>> consequences.
>
> Chris,
>
> If I have to teach you that anecdotes aren't science

The only one trying to pretend anecdotes are science is you. Apparently
you steadfast opinion - and it is only an opinion - regarding people's
fears is based on you asking them. I bet you didn't even use a
structured questionnaire.

Novak's case is a good example to demonstrate the consequences of not
getting the vaccine for your own reasons. He's also a great example of
not having a toddler tantrum over it.

If anyone's got a reason to be really upset it is him. He is foregoing
the chance to become the most successful male tennis player, ever. The
culmination of his almost 20-year career. That's quite some principles...

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:18:24 -0600, joe wrote:

> No Steve did not make it political; those wanting to "own the libs" make
> it political.

Steve brought up Trump.
That's political.

Steve brought up force.
That's political.

*Steve _wants_ you to _lose your job_ if you don't do what Steve wants.*

The fact you don't see Steve's goal as political, is what's scary.
What you don't understand is that _everything_ Steve says is political.

Why?
Because Steve is trying to _control_ you.
By fear.
Fear and fear alone.

Steve _enjoys_ taking away your rights by force.
He clearly _loves_ forcing an injection into people that _they_ don't want.

He will take away all your freedoms so that he can _inject_ you with stuff
you don't want - but which _he_ wants injected into your body.

*Steve _wants_ you to _lose your job_ if you don't do what Steve wants.*

You can't see that?
Really?

> OTOH, here is a reference you wanted to see.
> https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine

Finally, a reference.
Usually you morons don't even _read_ your own cites.
But I do.

Oh shit.
You _are_ a moron.
Jesus Christ.

You think _that_ is a scientific reference?
<https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine>
a. It starts with "Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis" so it's purely political
b. This is purely political commentary already as the Gov isn't an MD
c. So the Gov is just as dumb as everyone else is who has no training

Besides, to equate this shot with a 'vaccine' is more politics.
Based on science, it's decidedly _not_ a vaccine (it never was).
But you are too ignorant to comprehend that fact so I won't delve further.

I read the rest but it was all political garbage that made me puke.
I get it you (who is ignorant _and_ political) love that garbage.
But if you think _that_ is science, you proved me right about you.

You're a moron.
Actually, no.
You're a highly _political_ moron.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:29:50 -0800, sms wrote:

>> OTOH, here is a reference you wanted to see.
>> https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine

Steve,
I get it you are "joe" whom you post as so that you can respond to it.

But the fact remains you haven't posted an iota of actual science.

You bring up Trump in every other sentence, which proves it's politics to
you and worse, the _one_ cite you bring up (as "joe") when forced to, is all
political crappage.

What is wrong with you Steve?

From shilling for Verizon by lying about the FCC coverage maps to this...

*Everything you do is pure political sleaze*
--
Hint: That crap doesn't work on intelligent people, Steve.

On 16/02/2022 15:40, sms wrote:
> On 2/16/2022 12:01 AM, Chris wrote:
>> Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:47:37 GMT, David Higton wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's interesting that Novak Djokovic has just given an interview on
>>>> the BBC, in which he states he doesn't want to be vaccinated, and
>>>> that he accepts the consequences.
>>>
>>> A single bit of off-the-wall anecdotal evidence is not science.
>>
>> It demonstrates that no-one is being forced. Everyone has a choice. The
>> reasonable reaction to not getting vaccinated is to accept the
>> consequences.
>
> Exactly, he's not out there driving around (or blocking traffic) with a
> Serbian flag in a pickup truck, honking his horn, with a big sign
> demanding "Freedom."
>
> On the other hand, he is not making an informed decision, and his
> statements on the issue have made it clear that it's not that he doesn't
> believe that the vaccine is safe or effective, he just doesn't want
> being vaccinated to be a precondition of competing.

Not quite. He is well known to have quite an extreme diet and having
non-traditional methods in his training schedule tending to favour
holistic and alternative therapies.

So his position on the COVID vaccine, or vaccines in general, is not
that surprising.

For an elite athlete at the top of their game every micro-improvement
they can make matters. Especially psychologically. If Novak suspects the
vaccine might disturb his finely tuned balance, even erroneously, it'll
affect his performance.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:32:05 +0000, Chris wrote:

> The only one trying to pretend anecdotes are science is you.

Chris,
*What is revealing is how you & sms belittle people who stand on principle*

Like you, I _read_ the cites that people provide on this newsgroup.
That guy said he felt he had a right to decide for himself and he does.

Anecdotes have their place, but if you don't understand that I can show
almost anything I want to show with an anecdote, then you aren't as
intelligent as I've been assuming you are.

It's a classic trick of advertisers, for example.
HINT: The "testimonial" where people claim a gimmick "really works!"

BTW, assuming you _read_ the anecdotal article also... what's the problem?
What right does he have to his feelings don't you want to allow him to have?

> Apparently
> you steadfast opinion - and it is only an opinion - regarding people's
> fears is based on you asking them. I bet you didn't even use a
> structured questionnaire.

Have you read a _single_ thing _you_ wrote Chris?
It's _all_ about your intense uncontrollable mind-numbing crazed fears.

> Novak's case is a good example to demonstrate the consequences of not
> getting the vaccine for your own reasons. He's also a great example of
> not having a toddler tantrum over it.

Every person has the right to make a choice of whether or not they want a
foreign substance forced into their bodies by other people who are almost
always dumber than a rock, Chris.

You think Steve understands _anything_ about Covid, Chris?
You know absolutely nothing about Covid, Chris.

Hell, you don't even know the most common metric of a pandemic, Chris.
And neither does Steve.

Do you really want people _that_ dumb forcing drugs into your body?
Even if that novel new drug is FDA approved for general use?
<https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/full-fda-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know>

Well, you do.
But I allow others to make the choice for themselves.

That's where we differ.
You want people to do what you want them to do --- by force.
I want them to make an informed choice.

> If anyone's got a reason to be really upset it is him. He is foregoing
> the chance to become the most successful male tennis player, ever. The
> culmination of his almost 20-year career. That's quite some principles...

What I find interesting is how you belittle people who stand on principle.
--
It's telling how Steve and Chris belittle people who are principled.

On 16/02/2022 12:31, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:18:08 +0000, Chris wrote:
>
>> Avoiding the vaccine is not the evidence-based choice.
>
> Chris,
>
> Below are very adult concepts I'm providing to you, free of charge. :)

Ironically none of which is evidence-based. Unless you call your asking
random people questions counts as evidence. It doesn't BTW.

>>> Given Steve is completely ignorant of Covid, what gives him the right to
>>> claim that the only good choice is the choice _he_ made?
>>
>> What gives people the right to claim "my body, my choice"?
>
> In the USA, we lost hundreds of thousands of lives, for our freedom.

You guys are no way unique or special, so stop acting like it. Western
Europe lost *millions* of lives fighting for freedom. Your "freedom" is
no better than mine. Vaccines do not infringe your freedoms or rights.
They, in fact, do the opposite.

Like I asked before remind me where was the Battle of Vaccine Freedoms
was fought?

> The wacko Democrats, like Steve, want to throw all of that blood away.

You complain about politics yet constantly bring up politics. Why?